[email protected]

In a message dated 1/9/02 2:16:45 PM, alijay@... writes:

<< Wow, was I really surprised to see what was going on there! It's
funny, I just thought - how could anyone not like her. >>

How sweet of you to say that.

But apparently it's really easy for people not to like me. They assume
whatever I say was a personal attack on them and they start accusing me of
running people away from unschooling. I guess it helps if they're already
paranoid and insecure, and wanting someone or something else to blame it on.

I can't recommend about moving, because I've rarely done it! Sorry.

You're spot-on about the people condescendingly saying you/I/people shouldn't
be prejudiced against fundamentalist Christian homeschoolers but just deal
with them politely where they are. They don't WANT us where they are, and
will make that blatantly clear. (Is "blatantly clear" contradictory?
Maybe...)

Welcome to this list!

Sandra

zenmomma *

>>Anyway, would anyone have advice on turning a potentially horrible,
lonely place into a happy, fun place? (this must be a particularly off
day - I'm not usually this negative about it) Wait, here's something
positive! It's temporary - only 2 - 3 years! I am ever thankful for
lists like this where one can touch base with like minded folks, if only
virtually.>>

Hi Alice. Glad you decided to come out of lurkdom. :o) I have very recent
experience in dealing with what you have just described! Two years ago, job
considerations forced us to move from left-leaning, liberal, hippie haven
Boulder, CO to Utah, land o' the Mormons. Now I have nothing against
Mormons, but I ain't one. Nor am I conservatve, Republican or traditional in
most ways. It was a big culture shock for us to move here. But, it has also
turned out to be one the best experiences in my life. I've been able to grow
and learn more about myself in these two years than ever before. Here's what
I've learned.

First, I stopped trying to fit in or say what people wanted to hear so I
wouldn't offend them. There was no way I would ever fit in here, so I just
decided to be very obvious about being different. Wore it on my shirtsleeve
(or my bumper sticker) so to speak. I spoke my mind a lot and shared my
political and spiritual beliefs with anyone who would listen. I was loud and
positive about unschooling. No wavering, because I am positive this is right
for us. And guess what? All the other Utah "freaks" started coming out of
the woodwork to talk to me. Turns out I wasn't the only one. Just the only
one comfortable enough to speak up. I have actually found quite a few folks
like minded enough to make living here bearable for a few years.

Second, don't knock virtual friendships. They have been a lifesaver! When
the people and the politics and the religion make me nuts, I go on line for
a reality break. I always laugh when my comptuer has logged me off of the
internet. The message I get is "Do you want to reconnect?" and I think,
"Yes! I NEED to reconnect. Get me to some sane people NOW!"

Third, for the kids' sake, I say yes a lot. Yes to sleepovers, yes to
driving far distances to find friends, yes to more expensive hobbies since
it's what's available now. We spend much time in the car since our real life
friends can be 30 miles away. We listened to some awesome books on tape that
way, though. There's an upside to everything. Which brings me to number
four.

I had to calm myself down and accept the move for what it is, a temporary
stop on the path. I tried to figure out what I was supposed to learn from
the experience, and then tried to allow myself to be open to the lessons as
they came. I'm still here, so I guess I'm still learning. Although we are
trying to plan an escape to Oregon this year. :o) Wish us luck.

~Mary



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gruvystarchild

--Hey Alice, good to see you here!! You're so sweet.
Just for the record (and especially anyone that might be in NC) Alice
is the cooooolest unschooler and fun person to talk to!
She is a true radical unschooler that is so confident in unschooling
she's an inspiration!

Anyway, I am sooo sad that Pensacola's about to lose you.....but I am
positive you will find some cool people up there.
I think someone at unschooling.com responded to your posts and said
there were quite a few NC unschoolers....there just HAS to be.
Do what I did and search for unschoolers to start your own support
group.
Search everywhere! Even the local "support" groups can be a
source...as long as they're willing to allow a radical to put an ad
in their newsletter. haha
Post yourself at the homeschool registry...it may help open doors
even if their isn't anyone else there yet.
When people log on and see "unschooler" they write ya!!
And keep going to unschooling.com of course, it's amazing the
connections I've made there.
Best wishes to ya Ali! I'm gonna miss you.
Ren








- In AlwaysLearning@y..., Alice <alijay@h...> wrote:
> Hi again folks,
>
> Just a month or so ago, Ren (HI! Ren!!) (I get to know her in
person and
> she and her kids are really really nice! I haven't met Rick yet,
er...
> ummm.... I mean Mark, but I think he does look like Rick
Springfield in
> that pic :-) ) anyway, she told me about the unschooling.com boards
and
> mentioned Sandra was on there. I first started reading Sandra's
stuff
> way back in aol days, (and just liked her wit and attitude) but
then I
> got off of aol (yeh!) (I heard there was a bunch of problems on the
> homeschool boards there after that, and everything changed), but I
never
> did find her again. (that was probably about 4 or 5 years ago) When
Ren
> told me this, I subbed to the unschooling.com list. (since I like
email
> better) Wow, was I really surprised to see what was going on there!
It's
> funny, I just thought - how could anyone not like her. So needless
to
> say, that's why I'm here. (Thanks Ren!) I did want to add that I
> recognize a couple of other names from years ago and I guess it's
the
> whole group thing. It's just fun to listen to a bunch of
intelligent,
> witty, creative folks.
>
> Who the heck am I... (well, you can remember me as the 'first
Alice' to
> post to this list, since there will probably be more and I'm
probably
> going back to lurking soon, anyway)
>
> My dh is in the Navy, so we move around alot - currently in
Pensacola.
> Probably'l move again in June. :-( We have a 10yog (Rachel) and 7yob
> (Jake). (and two cats and two dogs) We've always happily
unschooled. We
> lived in Pensacola for almost a year before we found a really nice
group
> of people to hang out with.
>
> When there was a conversation a while back about the (anti?) social
> behavior of extreme fundamentalists, I was just constantly nodding
my
> head in affirmation. It felt so good to hear other folks had
experienced
> the same thing. I'm from the northeast and when I went home and
talked
> about not meeting anyone to hang out with in NC when we lived
there, it
> seemed like I was getting looks like _I_ shouldn't let _their_
religious
> preferences bother _me_. I found that alot of people who had never
> received that cold shoulder and had never been completely ignored,
> really had no idea where I was coming from. They found it very hard
to
> believe that so many people would want absolutely nothing to do
with me
> or my kids based _solely_ on our religious preferences.
>
> So now we're probably moving again in June and are very bummed
about it.
> Sandra, earlier (from the findyourspot conversation) you (or
someone)
> said you'd be happy anywhere - from the variety of places that were
> 'your spots'. I could really use some advice or encouragement or
> something... One of the places that my dh might get stationed is
NC. I
> was there already (Jacksonville) for a couple of years and know what
> it's like. It sucked. I'm so worried that we really won't be able to
> find anybody who is even a little like us. Just the other day dh
said he
> thought I was taking the idea pretty well. (he knows what it was
like
> last time) So I must be doing a good job of hiding it. I try to
> emphasize to the kids that we _will_ be able to find folks there and
> there will be positive things about living there. Though in
reality,
> I'm horrified that it's going to suck. I've tried the homeschoolers
> registry site and the closest on there was more than an hour away.
> (which is better than nothing, for sure) I've posted on other
boards,
> too, but no luck yet. We've never really been bothered by moving
before.
> This time it's alot harder since this is the first time we'll be
moving
> away from such a great group of people who we'll miss very much.
Well,
> at least we can look forward to cramming as much fun as we can into
the
> next six months! :-)
>
> Anyway, would anyone have advice on turning a potentially horrible,
> lonely place into a happy, fun place? (this must be a particularly
off
> day - I'm not usually this negative about it) Wait, here's something
> positive! It's temporary - only 2 - 3 years! I am ever thankful for
> lists like this where one can touch base with like minded folks, if
only
> virtually.
>
> (sorry for the long winded and whiny sounding intro)
>
> (first) Alice (and I'm 40 btw :-)

Alice

Hi again folks,

Just a month or so ago, Ren (HI! Ren!!) (I get to know her in person and
she and her kids are really really nice! I haven't met Rick yet, er...
ummm.... I mean Mark, but I think he does look like Rick Springfield in
that pic :-) ) anyway, she told me about the unschooling.com boards and
mentioned Sandra was on there. I first started reading Sandra's stuff
way back in aol days, (and just liked her wit and attitude) but then I
got off of aol (yeh!) (I heard there was a bunch of problems on the
homeschool boards there after that, and everything changed), but I never
did find her again. (that was probably about 4 or 5 years ago) When Ren
told me this, I subbed to the unschooling.com list. (since I like email
better) Wow, was I really surprised to see what was going on there! It's
funny, I just thought - how could anyone not like her. So needless to
say, that's why I'm here. (Thanks Ren!) I did want to add that I
recognize a couple of other names from years ago and I guess it's the
whole group thing. It's just fun to listen to a bunch of intelligent,
witty, creative folks.

Who the heck am I... (well, you can remember me as the 'first Alice' to
post to this list, since there will probably be more and I'm probably
going back to lurking soon, anyway)

My dh is in the Navy, so we move around alot - currently in Pensacola.
Probably'l move again in June. :-( We have a 10yog (Rachel) and 7yob
(Jake). (and two cats and two dogs) We've always happily unschooled. We
lived in Pensacola for almost a year before we found a really nice group
of people to hang out with.

When there was a conversation a while back about the (anti?) social
behavior of extreme fundamentalists, I was just constantly nodding my
head in affirmation. It felt so good to hear other folks had experienced
the same thing. I'm from the northeast and when I went home and talked
about not meeting anyone to hang out with in NC when we lived there, it
seemed like I was getting looks like _I_ shouldn't let _their_ religious
preferences bother _me_. I found that alot of people who had never
received that cold shoulder and had never been completely ignored,
really had no idea where I was coming from. They found it very hard to
believe that so many people would want absolutely nothing to do with me
or my kids based _solely_ on our religious preferences.

So now we're probably moving again in June and are very bummed about it.
Sandra, earlier (from the findyourspot conversation) you (or someone)
said you'd be happy anywhere - from the variety of places that were
'your spots'. I could really use some advice or encouragement or
something... One of the places that my dh might get stationed is NC. I
was there already (Jacksonville) for a couple of years and know what
it's like. It sucked. I'm so worried that we really won't be able to
find anybody who is even a little like us. Just the other day dh said he
thought I was taking the idea pretty well. (he knows what it was like
last time) So I must be doing a good job of hiding it. I try to
emphasize to the kids that we _will_ be able to find folks there and
there will be positive things about living there. Though in reality,
I'm horrified that it's going to suck. I've tried the homeschoolers
registry site and the closest on there was more than an hour away.
(which is better than nothing, for sure) I've posted on other boards,
too, but no luck yet. We've never really been bothered by moving before.
This time it's alot harder since this is the first time we'll be moving
away from such a great group of people who we'll miss very much. Well,
at least we can look forward to cramming as much fun as we can into the
next six months! :-)

Anyway, would anyone have advice on turning a potentially horrible,
lonely place into a happy, fun place? (this must be a particularly off
day - I'm not usually this negative about it) Wait, here's something
positive! It's temporary - only 2 - 3 years! I am ever thankful for
lists like this where one can touch base with like minded folks, if only
virtually.

(sorry for the long winded and whiny sounding intro)

(first) Alice (and I'm 40 btw :-)

zenmomma *

>>But I couldn't understand how an *entire group of people* could not like
>>me so much.>>

I go out of my way not to be in groups that are like this. We mostly do
things one on one, no homeschool groups. In fact, I don't think I belong to
anything in this state. Not a school or a church or a political group. Don't
get the local papers or tv newscasts either. I'm here, but not really. ;-)

My husband also has kidless "freak" friends from work who come over once a
month. My kids love these get togethers. The talk can get out there and
philosophical and yet come back to kid-friendly. It's worth it to check out
those types of relationships as well.

>>This is exactly what I was thinking of doing and hoping for the same
>outcome. What's to lose, ya know? And hopefully someone else who thinks
>similarly will pop up. :-) (Maybe _I_ should get a nose ring. :-) )>>

You know, the more 'out there' I get, the more people I seem to attract. :-D
And you're right, those stuffy types already don't want to hang around you.
It's a given. There's nothing to lose.

>>I had to calm myself down and accept the move for what it is, a
temporary stop on the path.<<

>That thought helps me an awful lot.>>

Glad it helped. It is, what it is. And it will end when it does.

~Mary

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Alice

Thanks so much Mary for your thoughtful reply. So much of it was very
helpful.

>>I stopped trying to fit in or say what people wanted to hear so I
wouldn't offend them. There was no way I would ever fit in here,<<

Well, I never did do this. I realized right away I wouldn't ever fit in
either. I'm a terrible actor and wouldn't have known what to say that
wouldn't offend them even if I wanted to try to fit in. But I couldn't
understand how an *entire group of people* could not like me so much. I
mean, hey, not everybody's gonna like ya, ya know? But _everyone_ _not_
liking you? That freaked me out - and made me a bit sad. I never had
trouble at least getting along with most people.

>>so I just
decided to be very obvious about being different. All the other Utah
"freaks" started coming out of
the woodwork to talk to me. Turns out I wasn't the only one.<<

This is exactly what I was thinking of doing and hoping for the same
outcome. What's to lose, ya know? And hopefully someone else who thinks
similarly will pop up. :-) (Maybe _I_ should get a nose ring. :-) )

>>I have actually found quite a few folks
like minded enough to make living here bearable for a few years.<<

I'm so glad to hear that and really happy for you. I haven't given up
hope. I'll just have to be a bit more outgoing. And developing a thick
skin won't hurt either. :-)

>>Second, don't knock virtual friendships.<<

Oh no! I didn't mean to sound like that! I know how helpful lists like
this can be. They _have_ been a life saver for me, too. But now that the
kids are getting older, it's them I'm more concerned about.

>>Third, for the kids' sake, I say yes a lot. Yes to sleepovers, yes to
driving far distances to find friends, yes to more expensive hobbies
since
it's what's available now. We spend much time in the car since our real
life
friends can be 30 miles away.<<

Well, we're pretty used to the travelling part. When we were in NY, we
were about 45 minutes away from anybody. Books on tape are handy for
long rides in the car aren't they? Or when kids are a little under the
weather. Like now. They're both listening to "Wind in the Willows" as we
speak (well..... ah.... write).

>>I had to calm myself down and accept the move for what it is, a
temporary
stop on the path.<<

That thought helps me an awful lot. It is only temporary. And another
positive thing if it turns out to be NC (I did say might, but they're
pretty good odds on going there) is that it is a whole lot closer to NY.
:-)

>>Although we are
trying to plan an escape to Oregon this year. :o) Wish us luck.<<

Hope your escape plans work out! Good Luck and have fun!

Alice

Alice

Hey Ren,

>>Just for the record (and especially anyone that might be in NC) Alice
is the cooooolest unschooler and fun person to talk to!<<

Thank you so much!

>>She is a true radical unschooler that is so confident in unschooling
she's an inspiration!<<

Ok, all you linguists out there. Is there a word for when someone whom
you find inspiring also finds you inspiring? LOL (did you follow that
:-) )

>>Anyway, I am sooo sad that Pensacola's about to lose you<<

Well, I do still have six more months, but I have the feeling they're
going to >>>>>>fly>>>>>> by.

>>I think someone at unschooling.com responded to your posts and said
there were quite a few NC unschoolers....there just HAS to be.<<

There are a bunch, but they're all way over towards the middle of the
state or off in the mountains. Now that we've met you guys, I'm getting
too picky. I want folks in _my own town_! Dag-nab-it! ;-) (guess I'll
try to quell those unrealistic expectations)
And you know, I've been trying to get back onto those boards all day
today and I keep getting an error message that says "unable to locate
unschooling.com". I'm using a bookmark, so I know it's spelled right.
Anybody know what's up with that?

>>Post yourself at the homeschool registry...it may help open doors
even if their isn't anyone else there yet.<<

I was planning on doing that when we got there and got a local email
address. Do you know the isp I have now (in FL) is a _national_ company.
I can even get a local access number in the little town (pop ~600) in NY
(for when we go there in the summers - what can I say, even an email
junkie on vacation), but they don't have any local numbers for
Jacksonville, NC ! So I'm going to have to change my email. :-( Maybe
I'll just go to a bigger "national" one. But I am going to write in to
my current isp, they keep adding numbers and cities all the time.

Alice

Margaret Zook

[email protected] wrote:
O.K. I'm emerging from lurkdom.
I'm Margot, and I'm a 38 year old. (That's supposed to be like "I'm Margot and I'm an alcoholic" but it doesn't work in print.)
I only know one person who lives in NC, but she happens to be a fairly radical person. She delivered both of my children - homebirth. (In California that practically makes her an outlaw.) She moved there (Henderson, NC) completely of her own free will about 4 years ago and is ecstatically happy there. I'm not sure what she does for friendship there, but I will add that I know that her twin sister moved there as well and they spend a great deal of time together. She's a goddess worshipper though, and some people still do trust her to deliver their babies. . . .
Also, one of my best friends who also homeschools is considering moving there, to Winston-Salem. It's a big question for her - for a lot of reasons that I couldn't possibly explain, even if I were willing to divulge them.

My point - look out! ooo-hooo-oo-hoooo-oooo (spooky laugh). We're everywhere!

Margot



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[email protected]

In a message dated 1/9/02 4:54:40 PM, alijay@... writes:

<< Ok, all you linguists out there. Is there a word for when someone whom
you find inspiring also finds you inspiring? >>

"Mutual admiration society" is the only description I know. <g>

meghan anderson

<<<<(Maybe _I_ should get a nose ring. :-) )

Alice>>>>

Hey! Works for me. Those fundies take one look at me
and KNOW there's no way they're going to save my ass!
So they don't even bother (thank Dodd!) :-)

Meghan

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Peggy

Wow! Good page... I like:

> Other parents were puzzled as to why we saw what they regarded as 'good' schools, which today would no doubt get OFSTED approval, as 'educational impoverishment zones'. 'A good uniform means a good school', they declared. 'And probably a bad education based on uniformity', we responded. John Gatto had an explanation for this puzzled response: "It is the great triumph of compulsory government monopoly mass-schooling that ... only a small number can imagine a different way to do things."
>
> So what did our policy of damage limitation look like? The first item was a principle: we would never pretend the school was right when it was wrong. If it proved necessary and with our son's approval, we would take the trouble to challenge the school when it was in the wrong, even if this meant we were labelled 'nuisance', 'interfering', or 'bad' parents. Part of this principle was never to shirk a dialogue with our son about what was happening in school and its implications. Thus, when a teacher, unable to find a guilty party punished the whole class, we pointed out that this was a common fascist procedure, but also why the authoritarian system pushed teachers into this corner. >>

I think this is such an important point. Many, many parents, when they
enroll their children in school, hand over their their critical
faculties. I don't know if it is because we are socialized, as former
school members ourselves, to be "nice" middle class people and not make
waves or what. When homeschoolers talk to parents who have done this,
the ones who buy totally into the system and cannot imagine an
alternative, I think that what they are really seeing is the successful
implementation of schooling from the earlier generation.

And then there is the homework. Even the critical parent who bucks the
system and tries to hand to their child the tools of personal decison
making can be brought up short when turned, against their will, into the
school's de facto presence at home with the responsibilities of the
homework police.

Peggy

Earth Witch wrote:
>
> the main page
> http://www.gn.apc.org/edheretics/
>
> some good articles on their site
> http://www.gn.apc.org/edheretics/EHFTheme.htm
>
> Kitrina
>
> You are all Buddhas.
> There is nothing that you need to achieve.
> Just open your eyes.
> ~~Buddha~~
>