deschooling in Narnia
Krisula Moyer
Spoiler Warning: in the unlikely event that you haven't yet read "The Lion,
the Witch and the Wardrobe," you may not wish to read further here.
I was rereading The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe in anticipation of the
upcoming movie and I came upon this wonderful little quote. It takes place
after the battle where Edmund had fought very bravely and had been wounded
and then healed with Lucy's cordial. Here's the quote: "...she found him
standing on his feet and not only healed of his wounds but looking better
than she had seen him look - oh, for ages; in fact ever since his first term
at that horrid school which was where he had begun to go wrong. He had
become his real old self again and could look you in the face."
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the Witch and the Wardrobe," you may not wish to read further here.
I was rereading The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe in anticipation of the
upcoming movie and I came upon this wonderful little quote. It takes place
after the battle where Edmund had fought very bravely and had been wounded
and then healed with Lucy's cordial. Here's the quote: "...she found him
standing on his feet and not only healed of his wounds but looking better
than she had seen him look - oh, for ages; in fact ever since his first term
at that horrid school which was where he had begun to go wrong. He had
become his real old self again and could look you in the face."
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Darlene Navarre
I am working on "active Listening" with my children. It does not seem to be working or what am I doing wrong?
My son age 5 can throw the biggest fits in the world and when he does I begin by repeating his concerns and letting him know that I am listening. He just continues to beg and crys and begs and crys until I am a basket case and I lose control. I work so hard to remain calm and understanding what he says understand his feeling and still he just crys harder and begs harder. Usually this is over something I said we would do or get and then it doesn't work out and he then cannot handle the disappointment and dont blame him but what do I do?
I end up with nothing but guilt because I am at a complete loss of what to do or what skills I need to teach myself and him.
Please help I want so bad to have a peaceful home and peaceful life.
Darlene
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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My son age 5 can throw the biggest fits in the world and when he does I begin by repeating his concerns and letting him know that I am listening. He just continues to beg and crys and begs and crys until I am a basket case and I lose control. I work so hard to remain calm and understanding what he says understand his feeling and still he just crys harder and begs harder. Usually this is over something I said we would do or get and then it doesn't work out and he then cannot handle the disappointment and dont blame him but what do I do?
I end up with nothing but guilt because I am at a complete loss of what to do or what skills I need to teach myself and him.
Please help I want so bad to have a peaceful home and peaceful life.
Darlene
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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> -=-Usually this is over something I said we would do or get and then itMaybe learn to say "maybe" or "we'll see" instead of "will do."
> doesn't work out and he then cannot handle the disappointment and dont blame him
> but what do I do?-=-
>
Distract, jolly up, find something really fun. Music, favorite snack,
something he hasn't played with before that's physically interesting--texturally
or kinetically or soothing somehow. Sack of rice in a big tub (not the
bathtub, something outside that can be played in/with and dumped), or a ball crawl
or a playground--something that will let him get the biochemical rush off or
down.
-=-I am working on "active Listening" with my children. It does not seem to
be working or what am I doing wrong?-=-
Maybe working on it is wrong. Maybe practice REALLY listening instead of
following someone's script. Maybe instead of "repeating his concerns and
letting him know that I am listening" you could hold his hand while he cries or
complains, or rub his back, or ask him questions that let him know you're
listening without the supremely irritating repetition or rephrasing.
Honest communication beats the heck out of scripted stuff.
-=-I end up with nothing but guilt because I am at a complete loss of what to
do or what skills I need to teach myself and him.
-=-
Don't think about what you need to teach yourself or him. Forget about
teaching. Move toward just learning. http://sandradodd.com/wordswords
Both unschooling and parenting will work better when you lose the guilt and
worry about "teaching."
-=-Please help I want so bad to have a peaceful home and peaceful life.-=-
I have a cassette tape if you want to buy one
http:/sandradodd.com/tapes
of a talk I gave with Richard Prystowsky a few years back.
But basically, don't confuse quiet with peace. There can be some dangerous,
scary abusive quiet, and some exuberant peace. And if you're not choosing
from two or three options when you make a decision, you didn't really choose.
You can improve your choices gradually, as you get more experience with the
way you want to be. You'll get closer to it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
<<this is over something I said we would do or get and then it didn't work out>>
I have a 12yo that still has meltdowns in the above situation. It is his nature. He can see Plan A but switching to Plan B really messes with his mind. He would even follow us around trying to make us commit to a plan.
What has worked for us is to tell him what the general plan is (yes, we will plan to ask his friend over later in the day) but to say loudly and firmly (yes, that is the plan but things might change, we might have a flat coming home from the store, or somebody might get sick....we are hoping to ask his friend over but it might change).
Then when it does hit the fan and we have to change a plan, Zach starts into the "but you said" and I remind him that it wasn't written in stone, that things change, that yes that was the plan and perhaps we can do it tomorrow, but it isn't happening today.
After many years, it is improving.
Julie S.
I have a 12yo that still has meltdowns in the above situation. It is his nature. He can see Plan A but switching to Plan B really messes with his mind. He would even follow us around trying to make us commit to a plan.
What has worked for us is to tell him what the general plan is (yes, we will plan to ask his friend over later in the day) but to say loudly and firmly (yes, that is the plan but things might change, we might have a flat coming home from the store, or somebody might get sick....we are hoping to ask his friend over but it might change).
Then when it does hit the fan and we have to change a plan, Zach starts into the "but you said" and I remind him that it wasn't written in stone, that things change, that yes that was the plan and perhaps we can do it tomorrow, but it isn't happening today.
After many years, it is improving.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: Darlene Navarre <dknbhn@...>
Date: Friday, October 28, 2005 11:41 pm
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Active Listening Problem
>
> I am working on "active Listening" with my children. It does not
> seem to be working or what am I doing wrong?
> My son age 5 can throw the biggest fits in the world and when he
> does I begin by repeating his concerns and letting him know that I
> am listening. He just continues to beg and crys and begs and crys
> until I am a basket case and I lose control. I work so hard to
> remain calm and understanding what he says understand his feeling
> and still he just crys harder and begs harder. Usually this is
> over something I said we would do or get and then it doesn't work
> out and he then cannot handle the disappointment and dont blame
> him but what do I do?
> I end up with nothing but guilt because I am at a complete loss of
> what to do or what skills I need to teach myself and him.
>
> Please help I want so bad to have a peaceful home and peaceful life.
>
> Darlene
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
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joanne
Hi Darlene, You are not alone. I am struggling with similar things with my five year old. Joanne
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Darlene Navarre
Thank you so much I a just recently listened to the tape in reference "Peaceful Parenting" I will have to just relisten. I will make myself practice more often I am detremined to be a great mother.
Peace and Love,
Darlene
SandraDodd@... wrote:
Distract, jolly up, find something really fun. Music, favorite snack,
something he hasn't played with before that's physically interesting--texturally
or kinetically or soothing somehow. Sack of rice in a big tub (not the
bathtub, something outside that can be played in/with and dumped), or a ball crawl
or a playground--something that will let him get the biochemical rush off or
down.
-=-I am working on "active Listening" with my children. It does not seem to
be working or what am I doing wrong?-=-
Maybe working on it is wrong. Maybe practice REALLY listening instead of
following someone's script. Maybe instead of "repeating his concerns and
letting him know that I am listening" you could hold his hand while he cries or
complains, or rub his back, or ask him questions that let him know you're
listening without the supremely irritating repetition or rephrasing.
Honest communication beats the heck out of scripted stuff.
-=-I end up with nothing but guilt because I am at a complete loss of what to
do or what skills I need to teach myself and him.
-=-
Don't think about what you need to teach yourself or him. Forget about
teaching. Move toward just learning. http://sandradodd.com/wordswords
Both unschooling and parenting will work better when you lose the guilt and
worry about "teaching."
-=-Please help I want so bad to have a peaceful home and peaceful life.-=-
I have a cassette tape if you want to buy one
http:/sandradodd.com/tapes
of a talk I gave with Richard Prystowsky a few years back.
But basically, don't confuse quiet with peace. There can be some dangerous,
scary abusive quiet, and some exuberant peace. And if you're not choosing
from two or three options when you make a decision, you didn't really choose.
You can improve your choices gradually, as you get more experience with the
way you want to be. You'll get closer to it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SPONSORED LINKS
Unschooling Attachment parenting John holt Parenting magazine Single parenting
---------------------------------
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---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Peace and Love,
Darlene
SandraDodd@... wrote:
> -=-Usually this is over something I said we would do or get and then itMaybe learn to say "maybe" or "we'll see" instead of "will do."
> doesn't work out and he then cannot handle the disappointment and dont blame him
> but what do I do?-=-
>
Distract, jolly up, find something really fun. Music, favorite snack,
something he hasn't played with before that's physically interesting--texturally
or kinetically or soothing somehow. Sack of rice in a big tub (not the
bathtub, something outside that can be played in/with and dumped), or a ball crawl
or a playground--something that will let him get the biochemical rush off or
down.
-=-I am working on "active Listening" with my children. It does not seem to
be working or what am I doing wrong?-=-
Maybe working on it is wrong. Maybe practice REALLY listening instead of
following someone's script. Maybe instead of "repeating his concerns and
letting him know that I am listening" you could hold his hand while he cries or
complains, or rub his back, or ask him questions that let him know you're
listening without the supremely irritating repetition or rephrasing.
Honest communication beats the heck out of scripted stuff.
-=-I end up with nothing but guilt because I am at a complete loss of what to
do or what skills I need to teach myself and him.
-=-
Don't think about what you need to teach yourself or him. Forget about
teaching. Move toward just learning. http://sandradodd.com/wordswords
Both unschooling and parenting will work better when you lose the guilt and
worry about "teaching."
-=-Please help I want so bad to have a peaceful home and peaceful life.-=-
I have a cassette tape if you want to buy one
http:/sandradodd.com/tapes
of a talk I gave with Richard Prystowsky a few years back.
But basically, don't confuse quiet with peace. There can be some dangerous,
scary abusive quiet, and some exuberant peace. And if you're not choosing
from two or three options when you make a decision, you didn't really choose.
You can improve your choices gradually, as you get more experience with the
way you want to be. You'll get closer to it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/29/05 1:28:26 PM, dknbhn@... writes:
really want it?
Can you not choose in each moment to do that thing that's better for a
peaceful relationship with your son?
If you choose to be more mindful, you will mindfully choose better responses.
No one can make you do that--not even you. You have to WANT to do it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I will make myself practice more often I am detremined to be a greatThis might seem picky, but if you have to "make yourself" practice, do you
> mother.
>
really want it?
Can you not choose in each moment to do that thing that's better for a
peaceful relationship with your son?
If you choose to be more mindful, you will mindfully choose better responses.
No one can make you do that--not even you. You have to WANT to do it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Darlene Navarre
Sandra,
Growing up until about the age of 12 years I always laughed and played all the time. I was always doing things my parents thought were wrong so I was spanked, grounded, or yelled at from the time I was very little. My father and mother fought and yelled all the time also. I swore that my life would be different at one point I believe I did not want to have any children. But I am very grateful I do I love them more than anything in the world.
I have now forgiven my parents and moved on I have been working on being a patient mother all my mothering life. I just never really knew what that meant. I have always slept with my kids because I do love being with them 99.9% of the time I really do love them, I love nursing them, having them and just being with them is such a joy. I am so good to them until I get angry and then I am not sure I have acquired the skills to calm myself and then I revert to what I was taught (usually yelling).
I feel helpless to help them and that frustrates me. I know I have the answers within me I guess need to be quiet and listen.
One last question, when he is that upset he keeps repeating himself and this can last for 30 min to an hour, how do I stay calm and still help him, I feel lost at that point?
Thank you so much Sandra,
Darlene
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 10/29/05 1:28:26 PM, dknbhn@... writes:
really want it?
Can you not choose in each moment to do that thing that's better for a
peaceful relationship with your son?
If you choose to be more mindful, you will mindfully choose better responses.
No one can make you do that--not even you. You have to WANT to do it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Growing up until about the age of 12 years I always laughed and played all the time. I was always doing things my parents thought were wrong so I was spanked, grounded, or yelled at from the time I was very little. My father and mother fought and yelled all the time also. I swore that my life would be different at one point I believe I did not want to have any children. But I am very grateful I do I love them more than anything in the world.
I have now forgiven my parents and moved on I have been working on being a patient mother all my mothering life. I just never really knew what that meant. I have always slept with my kids because I do love being with them 99.9% of the time I really do love them, I love nursing them, having them and just being with them is such a joy. I am so good to them until I get angry and then I am not sure I have acquired the skills to calm myself and then I revert to what I was taught (usually yelling).
I feel helpless to help them and that frustrates me. I know I have the answers within me I guess need to be quiet and listen.
One last question, when he is that upset he keeps repeating himself and this can last for 30 min to an hour, how do I stay calm and still help him, I feel lost at that point?
Thank you so much Sandra,
Darlene
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 10/29/05 1:28:26 PM, dknbhn@... writes:
> I will make myself practice more often I am detremined to be a greatThis might seem picky, but if you have to "make yourself" practice, do you
> mother.
>
really want it?
Can you not choose in each moment to do that thing that's better for a
peaceful relationship with your son?
If you choose to be more mindful, you will mindfully choose better responses.
No one can make you do that--not even you. You have to WANT to do it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
> I love nursing them, having them and just being with them is such a joy. IME TOO. I used to do that too. I would yell and feel totally justified.
> am so good to them until I get angry and then I am not sure I have acquired
> the skills to calm myself and then I revert to what I was taught (usually
> yelling).
> ===============
(Occasionally I still do, but it's way rarer now.)
-=-One last question, when he is that upset he keeps repeating himself and
this can last for 30 min to an hour, how do I stay calm and still help him, I
feel lost at that point?-=-
Since I don't know how you have responded before I don't know what the next
step would be. If you can't make a giant leap to the mom you would perfectly
love to be, take a step closer.
Can you say "I know" a couple of times to his complaint and then not respond
a couple of times and say "I know"? Would he stop repeating it if it failed
to rile you up?
Can you leave gently (not in a huff, not in an obvious mean way, but just
walk to another part of the room or house)? Can you just start doing something
near where he is so that you're still there but not engaged directly with
him? Like put the dishes away or strighten the fridge or fold laundry or
something so you're where you can hear him, but you're not just standing there
awkwardly?
-=-when he is that upset...-=-
Ideally, you'll find ways to move quickly toward helping him never be that
upset again.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Darlene Navarre
Thank you and I also would love it if anyone else has any great mothering suggestions during a melt down. I so would appreciate any and all responses.
peace, love, and one step closer for mothering kind,
Darlene
SandraDodd@... wrote:
(Occasionally I still do, but it's way rarer now.)
-=-One last question, when he is that upset he keeps repeating himself and
this can last for 30 min to an hour, how do I stay calm and still help him, I
feel lost at that point?-=-
Since I don't know how you have responded before I don't know what the next
step would be. If you can't make a giant leap to the mom you would perfectly
love to be, take a step closer.
Can you say "I know" a couple of times to his complaint and then not respond
a couple of times and say "I know"? Would he stop repeating it if it failed
to rile you up?
Can you leave gently (not in a huff, not in an obvious mean way, but just
walk to another part of the room or house)? Can you just start doing something
near where he is so that you're still there but not engaged directly with
him? Like put the dishes away or strighten the fridge or fold laundry or
something so you're where you can hear him, but you're not just standing there
awkwardly?
-=-when he is that upset...-=-
Ideally, you'll find ways to move quickly toward helping him never be that
upset again.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
peace, love, and one step closer for mothering kind,
Darlene
SandraDodd@... wrote:
> I love nursing them, having them and just being with them is such a joy. IME TOO. I used to do that too. I would yell and feel totally justified.
> am so good to them until I get angry and then I am not sure I have acquired
> the skills to calm myself and then I revert to what I was taught (usually
> yelling).
> ===============
(Occasionally I still do, but it's way rarer now.)
-=-One last question, when he is that upset he keeps repeating himself and
this can last for 30 min to an hour, how do I stay calm and still help him, I
feel lost at that point?-=-
Since I don't know how you have responded before I don't know what the next
step would be. If you can't make a giant leap to the mom you would perfectly
love to be, take a step closer.
Can you say "I know" a couple of times to his complaint and then not respond
a couple of times and say "I know"? Would he stop repeating it if it failed
to rile you up?
Can you leave gently (not in a huff, not in an obvious mean way, but just
walk to another part of the room or house)? Can you just start doing something
near where he is so that you're still there but not engaged directly with
him? Like put the dishes away or strighten the fridge or fold laundry or
something so you're where you can hear him, but you're not just standing there
awkwardly?
-=-when he is that upset...-=-
Ideally, you'll find ways to move quickly toward helping him never be that
upset again.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Unschooling Attachment parenting John holt Parenting magazine Single parenting
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn Coburn
<<<<<Thank you and I also would love it if anyone else has any great
mothering suggestions during a melt down. I so would appreciate any and all
responses. >>>>>
Here's some stuff I do and did with Jayn now 6. The foundation of it is not
to take her anger personally, while still acknowledging whatever my part
might have been in creating it.
The first part is not to place Jayn into a position where she is likely to
meltdown if that is remotely possible - also not to continue to thwart her
to the point that she feels that frustrated, but to begin the process of
finding an alternative fulfillment at the beginning. For example if your
child always has a hard time in large, loud, echoey places - start shopping
at a small local grocery instead. (That is partly how of we solved her
"store running" problem btw)
When Jayn is having any kind of meltdown, she responds best to physicality
with me, ahead of verbal reassurances or empathizing. The core of it is to
ask myself "What loving action, as is showing my love to Jayn, can I take
right now?" That is the magic question, regardless of how obnoxious she is
being.
From a recent discussion on AU:
<<<<< What I came to realize is that the priority, in all cases of negative
behavior, must be to *show* her my continued love and acceptance of her as a
person *first*, and then if necessary express my desires or give the helpful
information that she seems to be lacking. Often just the loving action
changes her emotional state and she stops the problem actions. This ties in
with assuming she is doing the best she can, and expressing empathy (see
Naomi Aldort's writing) which is best done with Jayn, by a loving physical
action. I know not all children want this physical response in times of
intensity.
The additional bonus for me is that choosing these loving actions helps my
anger (at whatever level) to melt away also - the immediate result is a
mother who is thinking clearly and logically so able to make better
decisions.>>>>>>
Sometimes that is holding out my arms to her, sometimes it is blowing a
raspberry on her belly, sometimes it is giving her my hands to push against,
sometimes it is restraining her for the purpose of letting her push against
my body. These are all strategies that help her become emotionally organized
again.
Here's a situation of that idea working to avoid a meltdown in a public
place recently:
<<<< Or perhaps we are in a situation of immediate conflicting needs as we
were this "morning" while getting our breakfast (everyone else's dinner) at
Home Town Buffet. Jayn was finished and wanted to leave at once. Dh and I
said that we wanted to finish our desserts first. Jayn started to say "no I
want to go NOW" and getting louder and teary. Huge crowd in the place, btw.
I made a conscious decision, despite a certain amount of internal rising
stress, to show her some love and acceptance *first*, despite what
conventional parenting might label "whining" or "rewarding of negative
behavior". I drew her on to my lap, gave her a slow hug and a kiss, and then
told her that I knew she wanted to go and being patient is hard, but we
needed a few minutes to finish our desserts. I felt her physically relax.
Then she sniffled a bit, but sat quietly and gently on her chair and waited
for the few minutes, conversing about other things.
In the past when something like this has occurred, we have tried just the
verbal empathy and reasoning, Jayn continued to loudly complain, and then
dh, with some grumpiness, has taken Jayn to the car to wait rather than
disturb other diners. This is usually somewhat OK because he generally has
already finished fast and also dislikes waiting, and I am the slow eater
(often because I have spent time assisting Jayn with the buffet instead of
eating). For some reason today we were both still munching.
The thing is that what I did today felt so much better, so right, *and*
worked - by which I mean Jayn willingly chose Patience.>>>
It helps me to have a mental script. It helps me even more if the mental
script is something that I devised for myself, fully authentic to me and the
way I think and speak and with my priorities, as against just following the
scripts of other parenting writers. Having a deliberate script (it might be
something as simple as "Breathe") for *myself* has been the best way to
avoid knee jerk reactions.
Here's something I wrote fairly recently that is kinda related. It has to do
with focusing on discovering the unexpressed need, rather than necessarily
wanting to stop the meltdown or negative behavior such as hitting me:
<<< I have found from my experience that the parent(me) thinking, "I have to
*correct* this bad action with information" (or even "I need her to know how
I am feeling") is a distancing thought. It is not that I never enacted that
kind of reaction to Jayn. But I found that it was a path that led to
frustration for both of us - and tended to backfire with Jayn so that I
couldn't even get to the next step. In re-examining my past uses of the
"that hurts me" phrases, I believe I was speaking in a way I had been told I
"should" do, and that there was a didactic paradigm, or a controlling
paradigm behind it.
However I found a better-for-us procedure. Instead of focusing first on the
negative, I try consciously choosing to think the phrase "What does she
need?", or more recently what I have found far and away the most helpful
thought "What loving action can I take towards Jayn *right now*?".
This has produced the results that I would hope for - Jayn becoming calmer,
more able to verbalize, more empathetic to me and, incidentally, likely to
apologize for hurting me.>>>>
I guess that underlying these strategies is the concept that a young child
is probably not ready to verbalize coherently in the heat of a meltdown - so
the "active" portion of Active Listening, needs to come to the forefront.
(g).
Finally here is Tree Goddess's fabulous list of helpful (active and
physical) strategies for restoring calm and serenity:
* Stretches
* Deep pressure massage
* Slow rocking or swinging
* Fidget toys
* Progressive muscle relaxation
* Quite music with a steady beat
* Bear hugs
* Reduced noise and light levels
* Lavender, vanilla or other soothing smells
* Snuggling in a sleeping bag, large pillows or bean bag chair
focused and attentive
*Sucking or chewing on hard candy or gum
* Adding rhythm to the activity
* Vibration-toy massager, vibrating pillow, wiggle pen
* Heavy work tasks to include hanging, pushing, pulling or carrying heavy
objects
Similarly: To organize
*Swinging on a swing or climbing
* Rhythmical sustained movement: marching, washing a table, or bouncing
* Rocking in a rocking chair
* "Squeezie" toys (koosh balls, balloons or rubber gloves filled with flour
or cream, soft balls, gak, silly putty)
* Hanging by the arms on the monkey bars (20-30 seconds)
* Pushing/carrying heavy objects
* Carrying back packs weighted with books or bags of dried beans (this
should only be worn for 15-20 minutes with an hour or two between) *A
reading corner with a bean bag chair makes a wonderful place for escape when
there is too much stimulation. Some children may like the bean bag on top
of them.
* Play dough
* Tactile Bins (cornmeal, oatmeal, water, sand, rice, beans)
* Kitchen time (mixing, tasting, smelling, washing up)
* Finger painting
Some children also need extra sensory input in their mouths and hands in
order to organize their behavior:
* Drinking from a water bottle
* Chewing (you can use a straw, rubber tubing or coffee stir stick)
* Being brushed with a corn de-silking brush (in one direction approximately
10 times with pressure brush their arms, back (but not over the spine), legs
(on the top, outer parts and underneath, avoid the inner thigh area), top
of the feet and the hands)
* Sucking on hard candy, frozen fruit bar, or spoonful of peanut butter or
marshmallow fluff
* Licorice tug-of-war, blow pin wheels or various types of blow toys,
bubbles and whistles
* Pushing against walls with the hands, shoulders, back, buttocks and head
* Cuddling or back rubbing
* Taking a bath
* Being rolled tightly like a hot dog in a blanket
* Being squished under a therapy ball, mat or couch cushion
* Tug-of-war
* Wheelbarrow walking, jumping games like hop scotch
* Crashing games-run and dive into boxes, bean bags and couch cushions
* Pulling a wagon, carrying a heavy book bag, digging in the yard or
carrying groceries
* Sports such as wrestling and football
* Deep pressure (giving a massage) and joint compressions (holding above one
joint and under one joint then doing a quick 10 repetitions of compressions,
pushing and pulling)
* A mini trampoline
* A sockem bopper or whatever they call those weighted kid-sized things that
spring back up after you knock them down
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.6/151 - Release Date: 10/28/2005
mothering suggestions during a melt down. I so would appreciate any and all
responses. >>>>>
Here's some stuff I do and did with Jayn now 6. The foundation of it is not
to take her anger personally, while still acknowledging whatever my part
might have been in creating it.
The first part is not to place Jayn into a position where she is likely to
meltdown if that is remotely possible - also not to continue to thwart her
to the point that she feels that frustrated, but to begin the process of
finding an alternative fulfillment at the beginning. For example if your
child always has a hard time in large, loud, echoey places - start shopping
at a small local grocery instead. (That is partly how of we solved her
"store running" problem btw)
When Jayn is having any kind of meltdown, she responds best to physicality
with me, ahead of verbal reassurances or empathizing. The core of it is to
ask myself "What loving action, as is showing my love to Jayn, can I take
right now?" That is the magic question, regardless of how obnoxious she is
being.
From a recent discussion on AU:
<<<<< What I came to realize is that the priority, in all cases of negative
behavior, must be to *show* her my continued love and acceptance of her as a
person *first*, and then if necessary express my desires or give the helpful
information that she seems to be lacking. Often just the loving action
changes her emotional state and she stops the problem actions. This ties in
with assuming she is doing the best she can, and expressing empathy (see
Naomi Aldort's writing) which is best done with Jayn, by a loving physical
action. I know not all children want this physical response in times of
intensity.
The additional bonus for me is that choosing these loving actions helps my
anger (at whatever level) to melt away also - the immediate result is a
mother who is thinking clearly and logically so able to make better
decisions.>>>>>>
Sometimes that is holding out my arms to her, sometimes it is blowing a
raspberry on her belly, sometimes it is giving her my hands to push against,
sometimes it is restraining her for the purpose of letting her push against
my body. These are all strategies that help her become emotionally organized
again.
Here's a situation of that idea working to avoid a meltdown in a public
place recently:
<<<< Or perhaps we are in a situation of immediate conflicting needs as we
were this "morning" while getting our breakfast (everyone else's dinner) at
Home Town Buffet. Jayn was finished and wanted to leave at once. Dh and I
said that we wanted to finish our desserts first. Jayn started to say "no I
want to go NOW" and getting louder and teary. Huge crowd in the place, btw.
I made a conscious decision, despite a certain amount of internal rising
stress, to show her some love and acceptance *first*, despite what
conventional parenting might label "whining" or "rewarding of negative
behavior". I drew her on to my lap, gave her a slow hug and a kiss, and then
told her that I knew she wanted to go and being patient is hard, but we
needed a few minutes to finish our desserts. I felt her physically relax.
Then she sniffled a bit, but sat quietly and gently on her chair and waited
for the few minutes, conversing about other things.
In the past when something like this has occurred, we have tried just the
verbal empathy and reasoning, Jayn continued to loudly complain, and then
dh, with some grumpiness, has taken Jayn to the car to wait rather than
disturb other diners. This is usually somewhat OK because he generally has
already finished fast and also dislikes waiting, and I am the slow eater
(often because I have spent time assisting Jayn with the buffet instead of
eating). For some reason today we were both still munching.
The thing is that what I did today felt so much better, so right, *and*
worked - by which I mean Jayn willingly chose Patience.>>>
It helps me to have a mental script. It helps me even more if the mental
script is something that I devised for myself, fully authentic to me and the
way I think and speak and with my priorities, as against just following the
scripts of other parenting writers. Having a deliberate script (it might be
something as simple as "Breathe") for *myself* has been the best way to
avoid knee jerk reactions.
Here's something I wrote fairly recently that is kinda related. It has to do
with focusing on discovering the unexpressed need, rather than necessarily
wanting to stop the meltdown or negative behavior such as hitting me:
<<< I have found from my experience that the parent(me) thinking, "I have to
*correct* this bad action with information" (or even "I need her to know how
I am feeling") is a distancing thought. It is not that I never enacted that
kind of reaction to Jayn. But I found that it was a path that led to
frustration for both of us - and tended to backfire with Jayn so that I
couldn't even get to the next step. In re-examining my past uses of the
"that hurts me" phrases, I believe I was speaking in a way I had been told I
"should" do, and that there was a didactic paradigm, or a controlling
paradigm behind it.
However I found a better-for-us procedure. Instead of focusing first on the
negative, I try consciously choosing to think the phrase "What does she
need?", or more recently what I have found far and away the most helpful
thought "What loving action can I take towards Jayn *right now*?".
This has produced the results that I would hope for - Jayn becoming calmer,
more able to verbalize, more empathetic to me and, incidentally, likely to
apologize for hurting me.>>>>
I guess that underlying these strategies is the concept that a young child
is probably not ready to verbalize coherently in the heat of a meltdown - so
the "active" portion of Active Listening, needs to come to the forefront.
(g).
Finally here is Tree Goddess's fabulous list of helpful (active and
physical) strategies for restoring calm and serenity:
>>>>>Calming Activities: Experiences that may help to relax the nervous system
* Stretches
* Deep pressure massage
* Slow rocking or swinging
* Fidget toys
* Progressive muscle relaxation
* Quite music with a steady beat
* Bear hugs
* Reduced noise and light levels
* Lavender, vanilla or other soothing smells
* Snuggling in a sleeping bag, large pillows or bean bag chair
>>>Organizing Activities: Experiences that can help an individual become
focused and attentive
*Sucking or chewing on hard candy or gum
* Adding rhythm to the activity
* Vibration-toy massager, vibrating pillow, wiggle pen
* Heavy work tasks to include hanging, pushing, pulling or carrying heavy
objects
Similarly: To organize
*Swinging on a swing or climbing
* Rhythmical sustained movement: marching, washing a table, or bouncing
* Rocking in a rocking chair
* "Squeezie" toys (koosh balls, balloons or rubber gloves filled with flour
or cream, soft balls, gak, silly putty)
* Hanging by the arms on the monkey bars (20-30 seconds)
* Pushing/carrying heavy objects
* Carrying back packs weighted with books or bags of dried beans (this
should only be worn for 15-20 minutes with an hour or two between) *A
reading corner with a bean bag chair makes a wonderful place for escape when
there is too much stimulation. Some children may like the bean bag on top
of them.
* Play dough
* Tactile Bins (cornmeal, oatmeal, water, sand, rice, beans)
* Kitchen time (mixing, tasting, smelling, washing up)
* Finger painting
Some children also need extra sensory input in their mouths and hands in
order to organize their behavior:
* Drinking from a water bottle
* Chewing (you can use a straw, rubber tubing or coffee stir stick)
>>>To calm:
* Being brushed with a corn de-silking brush (in one direction approximately
10 times with pressure brush their arms, back (but not over the spine), legs
(on the top, outer parts and underneath, avoid the inner thigh area), top
of the feet and the hands)
* Sucking on hard candy, frozen fruit bar, or spoonful of peanut butter or
marshmallow fluff
* Licorice tug-of-war, blow pin wheels or various types of blow toys,
bubbles and whistles
* Pushing against walls with the hands, shoulders, back, buttocks and head
* Cuddling or back rubbing
* Taking a bath
* Being rolled tightly like a hot dog in a blanket
* Being squished under a therapy ball, mat or couch cushion
* Tug-of-war
* Wheelbarrow walking, jumping games like hop scotch
* Crashing games-run and dive into boxes, bean bags and couch cushions
* Pulling a wagon, carrying a heavy book bag, digging in the yard or
carrying groceries
* Sports such as wrestling and football
* Deep pressure (giving a massage) and joint compressions (holding above one
joint and under one joint then doing a quick 10 repetitions of compressions,
pushing and pulling)
* A mini trampoline
* A sockem bopper or whatever they call those weighted kid-sized things that
spring back up after you knock them down
>>>>>Robyn L. Coburn
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.6/151 - Release Date: 10/28/2005
Darlene Navarre
Thank you for this perspective and advise this really helped.
Darlene
Robyn Coburn <dezigna@...> wrote:
Here's some stuff I do and did with Jayn now 6. The foundation of it is not
to take her anger personally, while still acknowledging whatever my part
might have been in creating it.
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Darlene
Robyn Coburn <dezigna@...> wrote:
Here's some stuff I do and did with Jayn now 6. The foundation of it is not
to take her anger personally, while still acknowledging whatever my part
might have been in creating it.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
http://home.earthlink.net/%7Efetteroll/rejoycing/changing%20parenting/tryingnottoyell.html
A Joyce-page called "I am trying so hard not to yell"
If you don't want to go and read it there, the text (minus the clear
formatting) is this:
===Myself, I am trying so hard not to yell and to let things go.===
What helps a lot is seeing the world through children's understanding of it.
If we can understand the reasons behind their actions, then it's easier not
to be upset when they aren't doing what we think they should.
===I don't want to just be there and I don't want to yell.===
There's a whole world in between :-)
Give yourself a new role in their lives. Rather than being their director,
be their facilitator.
You can be with them. You can enter into their world and help them get what
they're trying to get and explore what they're trying to explore.
If you were watching a favorite movie would you rather that a parent had
ignored you, yelled at you to turn it off, made snide remarks about you watching
trash, or sat beside you and talked about the movie as a friend might, sharing
what you each like and didn't like about it?
It helps to appreciate that they are perfect as who they are right now and
not try to focus on them not being what they should be as adults. What I mean
by that is that we shouldn't see a 4 yo who hits as signs that he'll be an
adult who hits. We shouldn't see it as something that needs trained out of them or
they'll be stuck with it. We should see it as perfectly natural for who they
are and they need help figuring out better ways to handle their emotions.
A sitting 9 mo old isn't destined to be a sitting adult ;-) They will grow
and change because it's natural, not because we've trained them to do something
else. They may even run a marathon in there, but it won't be because we
trained them not to sit ;-) If we trust that kids don't want to be hurtful and just
need help gaining the skills to stop themselves and figure out new ways, then
it's easier to change the role we take on in their lives.
===My son is extremely spirited, so am I, so we do clash a lot.===
Have you read some of the books people often recommend for challenging
children? Raising Your Spirited Child by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka and The Explosive
Child by Dr. Ross Greene.
===The other day I told him that I wanted him to pick up his toys in his
room, he opened his bedroom window and started yelling for someone to get his dad
and to help him! I hadn't even yelled at him, he just didn't want to clean his
room!===
What if your husband wanted you to reroof the house? What if you knew that
if he suggested something that was it, period, there was no getting out of it?
He might help you. He might work along side of you. But when he wanted you to
do something, he was depositing the burden of the task on your shoulders and
you were going to have to get up on that roof and strip it down and nail down
new shingles regardless of your feelings about it.
Cleaning up seems much smaller than that to us as adults, but from inside
kids cleaning up feels like reroofing the house.
What if your son didn't like the way you kept your room? What if he came in
and told you to put your stuff away in the way he thought it best. The first
time it might be amusing ;-) After weeks of his seemingly whimsical demands
about how you keep your stuff and your corner of the world that you didn't have
the option to ignore, how would you feel?
If the room bothers you, then ask if he wouldn't mind if you cleaned it up.
Judge for yourself whether you should ask if he'd like to help right now. If
he's used to you "asking" when you are really telling him (that is when you
"ask" "no" isn't an acceptable answer) then it's not going to sound like a
question. Or he may think it's a way to manipulate him into helping.
See the task as yours because it's something important to you.
===We also have a hard time with him acting out because he has asthma and
allergies. When they are full swing, he physically can't control himself and he
will sometimes get too rough with my 15 month old.===
Rather than labeling it "acting out" which focuses on the action, look at
what he's feeling inside and why he's behaving as he does.
Talk to him at calm times about what he's feeling before he gets rough. He
needs that awareness of what's going on internally before he can even attempt
to figure out how to deal with it.
At 4 -- or even at 6 or 10 or 27! -- he may not know what to do so you'll
need to go slowly and not pressure him. He may not even realize there's a build
up. Ask him if he can pay attention next time. Maybe have him talk about what
was going on that led up to it. And ask him about his feelings. Or supply them
for him, like "You must have felt frustrated." Don't try to turn it into a
lecture on what he should have done. The goal is self awareness so he can help
himself.
(But of course stop him when he's playing rough! The baby needs to feel that
home is a safe place for him. You don't need to be angry. Just firm that
hurting isn't allowed.)
Learning how to identify feelings is probably like learning how to identify
wine. Just as even the most wine-ignorant adults can tell a red wine from a
white wine ;-) kids probably have the easy emotions figured out: happy, sad,
mad. But the rest get lumped under one of those categories. They need help
identifying the nuances. We can help by labeling what they must be feeling. Or
labeling what a character on TV or in a book might be feeling in a situation.
And talk about other things he could do when he has the feelings coming on.
Offer them as help, not in a shaming way that says "I can't believe you did
that instead of this." Above all make sure he knows being rough with the baby is
not okay. Even better is talking about what might happen in a particular
situation and helping him plan ahead on what he could do instead. Don't expect him
to act as he planned. It's a learning process. Knowing that keeping the bike
wheels moving makes the bike more stable isn't the same as being able to do
it. It takes lots of practice before what you know in your head is right becomes
second nature.
(Sandra Dodd has said when her kids were little she said, "You can hit each
other only if first you talk about it, second you get a grown up to help you
settle it, and if that doesn't work, THEN you can hit." So when they hit each
other, she'd ask if they'd talked about it, and if they'd asked an adult to
help. Not done in a shaming way, but a helpful way.)
He will make mistakes. And when he makes mistakes you want him to feel free
to come to you for help. If you've made it clear that hurting the baby is not
okay and he slips up, it's not because he missed the part about where hurting
the baby is not okay and needs reminded. It's because he needs help handling
the turmoil of feelings inside.
Be there with them and aware as much as you can so you can start noticing
the symptoms and help redirect him. If he isn't yet capable of not hurting the
baby, then don't leave them alone together. Not as a punishment to say you
don't trust him, but because they both deserve to feel safe in their own home. If
there were a dog about to bite him, he'd want to trust that you'd be there to
snatch him up out of harm's way, not hover in the background and then yell at
the dog.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
A Joyce-page called "I am trying so hard not to yell"
If you don't want to go and read it there, the text (minus the clear
formatting) is this:
===Myself, I am trying so hard not to yell and to let things go.===
What helps a lot is seeing the world through children's understanding of it.
If we can understand the reasons behind their actions, then it's easier not
to be upset when they aren't doing what we think they should.
===I don't want to just be there and I don't want to yell.===
There's a whole world in between :-)
Give yourself a new role in their lives. Rather than being their director,
be their facilitator.
You can be with them. You can enter into their world and help them get what
they're trying to get and explore what they're trying to explore.
If you were watching a favorite movie would you rather that a parent had
ignored you, yelled at you to turn it off, made snide remarks about you watching
trash, or sat beside you and talked about the movie as a friend might, sharing
what you each like and didn't like about it?
It helps to appreciate that they are perfect as who they are right now and
not try to focus on them not being what they should be as adults. What I mean
by that is that we shouldn't see a 4 yo who hits as signs that he'll be an
adult who hits. We shouldn't see it as something that needs trained out of them or
they'll be stuck with it. We should see it as perfectly natural for who they
are and they need help figuring out better ways to handle their emotions.
A sitting 9 mo old isn't destined to be a sitting adult ;-) They will grow
and change because it's natural, not because we've trained them to do something
else. They may even run a marathon in there, but it won't be because we
trained them not to sit ;-) If we trust that kids don't want to be hurtful and just
need help gaining the skills to stop themselves and figure out new ways, then
it's easier to change the role we take on in their lives.
===My son is extremely spirited, so am I, so we do clash a lot.===
Have you read some of the books people often recommend for challenging
children? Raising Your Spirited Child by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka and The Explosive
Child by Dr. Ross Greene.
===The other day I told him that I wanted him to pick up his toys in his
room, he opened his bedroom window and started yelling for someone to get his dad
and to help him! I hadn't even yelled at him, he just didn't want to clean his
room!===
What if your husband wanted you to reroof the house? What if you knew that
if he suggested something that was it, period, there was no getting out of it?
He might help you. He might work along side of you. But when he wanted you to
do something, he was depositing the burden of the task on your shoulders and
you were going to have to get up on that roof and strip it down and nail down
new shingles regardless of your feelings about it.
Cleaning up seems much smaller than that to us as adults, but from inside
kids cleaning up feels like reroofing the house.
What if your son didn't like the way you kept your room? What if he came in
and told you to put your stuff away in the way he thought it best. The first
time it might be amusing ;-) After weeks of his seemingly whimsical demands
about how you keep your stuff and your corner of the world that you didn't have
the option to ignore, how would you feel?
If the room bothers you, then ask if he wouldn't mind if you cleaned it up.
Judge for yourself whether you should ask if he'd like to help right now. If
he's used to you "asking" when you are really telling him (that is when you
"ask" "no" isn't an acceptable answer) then it's not going to sound like a
question. Or he may think it's a way to manipulate him into helping.
See the task as yours because it's something important to you.
===We also have a hard time with him acting out because he has asthma and
allergies. When they are full swing, he physically can't control himself and he
will sometimes get too rough with my 15 month old.===
Rather than labeling it "acting out" which focuses on the action, look at
what he's feeling inside and why he's behaving as he does.
Talk to him at calm times about what he's feeling before he gets rough. He
needs that awareness of what's going on internally before he can even attempt
to figure out how to deal with it.
At 4 -- or even at 6 or 10 or 27! -- he may not know what to do so you'll
need to go slowly and not pressure him. He may not even realize there's a build
up. Ask him if he can pay attention next time. Maybe have him talk about what
was going on that led up to it. And ask him about his feelings. Or supply them
for him, like "You must have felt frustrated." Don't try to turn it into a
lecture on what he should have done. The goal is self awareness so he can help
himself.
(But of course stop him when he's playing rough! The baby needs to feel that
home is a safe place for him. You don't need to be angry. Just firm that
hurting isn't allowed.)
Learning how to identify feelings is probably like learning how to identify
wine. Just as even the most wine-ignorant adults can tell a red wine from a
white wine ;-) kids probably have the easy emotions figured out: happy, sad,
mad. But the rest get lumped under one of those categories. They need help
identifying the nuances. We can help by labeling what they must be feeling. Or
labeling what a character on TV or in a book might be feeling in a situation.
And talk about other things he could do when he has the feelings coming on.
Offer them as help, not in a shaming way that says "I can't believe you did
that instead of this." Above all make sure he knows being rough with the baby is
not okay. Even better is talking about what might happen in a particular
situation and helping him plan ahead on what he could do instead. Don't expect him
to act as he planned. It's a learning process. Knowing that keeping the bike
wheels moving makes the bike more stable isn't the same as being able to do
it. It takes lots of practice before what you know in your head is right becomes
second nature.
(Sandra Dodd has said when her kids were little she said, "You can hit each
other only if first you talk about it, second you get a grown up to help you
settle it, and if that doesn't work, THEN you can hit." So when they hit each
other, she'd ask if they'd talked about it, and if they'd asked an adult to
help. Not done in a shaming way, but a helpful way.)
He will make mistakes. And when he makes mistakes you want him to feel free
to come to you for help. If you've made it clear that hurting the baby is not
okay and he slips up, it's not because he missed the part about where hurting
the baby is not okay and needs reminded. It's because he needs help handling
the turmoil of feelings inside.
Be there with them and aware as much as you can so you can start noticing
the symptoms and help redirect him. If he isn't yet capable of not hurting the
baby, then don't leave them alone together. Not as a punishment to say you
don't trust him, but because they both deserve to feel safe in their own home. If
there were a dog about to bite him, he'd want to trust that you'd be there to
snatch him up out of harm's way, not hover in the background and then yell at
the dog.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
diana jenner
Darlene Navarre wrote:
"calm medicine" or homeopathic remedy for my chi :) See: BachFlower.com
<http://www.bachflower.com/rescue_remedy.htm> I found it when my ds was
having fits (for lack of a better word) that I couldn't understand or
remain calm to sort out. Now I use it more for *me* when I'm triggered
by his behavior, it gives me that necessary space from the situation to
calmly decide what to do. We've also used some individual flower
essences for other issues:
When Hayden was asked "red shirt or blue?" he would choose one and
ruminate all day that he made the wrong choice, we used Cerato:
*>>Cerato*: This Essence helps you when you have a hard time making
decisions. When you have to make a decision; such as, where to live,
what to wear or where to go. You tend to seek advise and confirmations
from others, not listening to your own intuition. You might often follow
others advise and later regret is, since you actually knew that it
wouldn't be what you wanted.* Cerato* helps you listening to your own
wisdom and follow it.
For me, when I was/am on the verge of behaving as I don't want to, I use
Cherry Plum:
*>>Cherry Plum:* This helps you when you are on the verge of breakdown,
possible suicide. You feel in such despair that you feel that you are
loosing your sanity. You have a feeling that you are going to explode
and are afraid to give way to violent impulses. *Cherry Plum *helps you
to find an inner balance so that you can think and act rationally.
I keep a few others on hand in case I feel the need, sometimes just
knowing they're here helps. I've often sent Hayden into stressful
situations with RR in his pocket and he holds it when he needs to (i.e.
afternoon at gramma's house), but rarely doses himself.
Now outside of medicine, I *HIGHLY* recommend Sandra's Peaceful
Parenting tape. I've listened to it many times and the wisdom it
contains is absolutely priceless!! Maybe you can squirt yourself with
some RR and put on the tape ~ you'll be ready to be fully present for
whatever your child brings to you next <vbg>
:) diana
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>Thank you and I also would love it if anyone else has any great mothering suggestions during a melt down. I so would appreciate any and all responses.I'd recommend Rescue Remedy, both for you and your son... I call it our
>
>peace, love, and one step closer for mothering kind,
>Darlene
>
>
"calm medicine" or homeopathic remedy for my chi :) See: BachFlower.com
<http://www.bachflower.com/rescue_remedy.htm> I found it when my ds was
having fits (for lack of a better word) that I couldn't understand or
remain calm to sort out. Now I use it more for *me* when I'm triggered
by his behavior, it gives me that necessary space from the situation to
calmly decide what to do. We've also used some individual flower
essences for other issues:
When Hayden was asked "red shirt or blue?" he would choose one and
ruminate all day that he made the wrong choice, we used Cerato:
*>>Cerato*: This Essence helps you when you have a hard time making
decisions. When you have to make a decision; such as, where to live,
what to wear or where to go. You tend to seek advise and confirmations
from others, not listening to your own intuition. You might often follow
others advise and later regret is, since you actually knew that it
wouldn't be what you wanted.* Cerato* helps you listening to your own
wisdom and follow it.
For me, when I was/am on the verge of behaving as I don't want to, I use
Cherry Plum:
*>>Cherry Plum:* This helps you when you are on the verge of breakdown,
possible suicide. You feel in such despair that you feel that you are
loosing your sanity. You have a feeling that you are going to explode
and are afraid to give way to violent impulses. *Cherry Plum *helps you
to find an inner balance so that you can think and act rationally.
I keep a few others on hand in case I feel the need, sometimes just
knowing they're here helps. I've often sent Hayden into stressful
situations with RR in his pocket and he holds it when he needs to (i.e.
afternoon at gramma's house), but rarely doses himself.
Now outside of medicine, I *HIGHLY* recommend Sandra's Peaceful
Parenting tape. I've listened to it many times and the wisdom it
contains is absolutely priceless!! Maybe you can squirt yourself with
some RR and put on the tape ~ you'll be ready to be fully present for
whatever your child brings to you next <vbg>
:) diana
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