JA Smith

I agree with Sara about TV....
I believe what we see or hear becomes apart of us.
Being selective will raise our vibration.
Have you ever noticed that violence comes with noise
and non-violence happens in silence?
People who are violent make a huge noise,
they make it known. People who are non-violent are
quiet.

Watch your thoughts, for they become words.
Watch your words, for they become actions.
Watch your actions, for they become habits.
Watch your habits, for they become character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.

JA Smith, age 48, mom to Evan, age 3 1/2
San Diego

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Daniel MacIntyre

The loud ones are the ones whose violence is noticed more. I prefer
the loud people - I know where they are and what they are doing. The
quiet ones are the ones who simply don't let you know what's going on
inside.

The phrase "He was always such a quiet person" is very often applied
to the Jeffrey Dahmer/Ted Bundy types - so often that it is almost
stereotypical nowadays. The Kids at Columbine - quiet types. The
worker that "Goes Postal" - also a quiet type. Lee Harvey Oswald - a
quiet type. John Hinkley - a quiet type.

Never mistake "quiet" for "safe."


On 9/28/05, JA Smith <hamiltonj@...> wrote:
> I agree with Sara about TV....
> I believe what we see or hear becomes apart of us.
> Being selective will raise our vibration.
> Have you ever noticed that violence comes with noise
> and non-violence happens in silence?
> People who are violent make a huge noise,
> they make it known. People who are non-violent are
> quiet.
>
> Watch your thoughts, for they become words.
> Watch your words, for they become actions.
> Watch your actions, for they become habits.
> Watch your habits, for they become character.
> Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.
>
> JA Smith, age 48, mom to Evan, age 3 1/2
> San Diego
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Daniel
(Amy is doing a half marathon for Team in Training
Anyone who wants to help can do so by going to:
http://www.active.com/donate/fundraise/tntgmoAMacint )

April

Oh, that's not true at all. I know from experience. I grew up in a very
quiet home (with tv limits and everything). Yelling wasn't not allowed. But
let me tell you, plenty of "violence" was done...passive aggressive
violence, word 'violence'..noise is not an indicator.



Our home now is wonderfully noisy and chaotic much of the time, but not
violent at all, in words or deeds. But you're right, what we see or hear
can become part of us and I hope my children and seeing AND hearing lots of
love, joy, acceptance, fun, and all that is involved in growing and
learning.



~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-16, Karl-14, & Ben-10.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
<http://www.reachhomeschool.com> www.reachhomeschool.com

* Michigan Unschoolers
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art! <http://www.artkunst23.com/>
http://www.artkunst23.com
*Michigan Youth Theater...Acting On Our Dreams...
<http://www.michiganyouththeater.com/> http://www.michiganyouththeater.com
"Know where to find the information and how to use it - That's the secret of
success."
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

_____

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of JA Smith
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 1:14 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] TV activities



I agree with Sara about TV....
I believe what we see or hear becomes apart of us.
Being selective will raise our vibration.
Have you ever noticed that violence comes with noise
and non-violence happens in silence?
People who are violent make a huge noise,
they make it known. People who are non-violent are
quiet.

Watch your thoughts, for they become words.
Watch your words, for they become actions.
Watch your actions, for they become habits.
Watch your habits, for they become character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.

JA Smith, age 48, mom to Evan, age 3 1/2
San Diego

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







SPONSORED LINKS


American
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=American+family+home+insurance&w1=Ameri
can+family+home+insurance&w2=American+family+home+insurance+company&w3=Ameri
can+family+home+owner+insurance&w4=Multi+family+home+for+sale&w5=Single+fami
ly+home+for+sale&w6=Family+home+finance&c=6&s=212&.sig=KHsWwGhmNUfcNGl3wGwoH
Q> family home insurance

American
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=American+family+home+insurance+company&
w1=American+family+home+insurance&w2=American+family+home+insurance+company&
w3=American+family+home+owner+insurance&w4=Multi+family+home+for+sale&w5=Sin
gle+family+home+for+sale&w6=Family+home+finance&c=6&s=212&.sig=7072oQdqh-ixy
5QNIlgM4A> family home insurance company

American
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=American+family+home+owner+insurance&w1
=American+family+home+insurance&w2=American+family+home+insurance+company&w3
=American+family+home+owner+insurance&w4=Multi+family+home+for+sale&w5=Singl
e+family+home+for+sale&w6=Family+home+finance&c=6&s=212&.sig=SLnJnROoeuzjw3R
6FgeXWg> family home owner insurance


Multi
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Multi+family+home+for+sale&w1=American+
family+home+insurance&w2=American+family+home+insurance+company&w3=American+
family+home+owner+insurance&w4=Multi+family+home+for+sale&w5=Single+family+h
ome+for+sale&w6=Family+home+finance&c=6&s=212&.sig=nF0fLsYV9Tlf-C83-3_nNA>
family home for sale

Single
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Single+family+home+for+sale&w1=American
+family+home+insurance&w2=American+family+home+insurance+company&w3=American
+family+home+owner+insurance&w4=Multi+family+home+for+sale&w5=Single+family+
home+for+sale&w6=Family+home+finance&c=6&s=212&.sig=XpRhRrQ7ZY9_bBfGYZXysQ>
family home for sale

Family
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Family+home+finance&w1=American+family+
home+insurance&w2=American+family+home+insurance+company&w3=American+family+
home+owner+insurance&w4=Multi+family+home+for+sale&w5=Single+family+home+for
+sale&w6=Family+home+finance&c=6&s=212&.sig=YcQDIotQRP9DR00deJTjqQ> home
finance



_____

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



* Visit your group "AlwaysLearning
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning> " on the web.

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



_____



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Sep 28, 2005, at 1:13 PM, JA Smith wrote:

> I believe what we see or hear becomes apart of us.

And what experience with unschooled children do you have to support
your belief that watching violence turns children violent?

How will you prevent your child from seeing violence? By choosing
*for him* not to have TV? By choosing what shows he's allowed to
watch? How peaceful would you feel if your husband decided what you
could and couldn't watch, what you could and couldn't read? How
peaceful would you feel if you thought you were perfectly capable of
handling something and he said no? Would you just say okay and be
peaceful about it? Is there a nonviolent way to make you stop wanting
something and make you want what someone else wants for you?

It's easy when they're onlies and very young. We *are* in control of
their environment and it seems easy to assume we'll always be able to
filter the world so they only experience what is kind and good. But
to do that we have to cut them off from the world. We can't let them
play with kids who turn sticks into guns, or let them see carnivorous
dinosaurs eating peaceful plant eaters, or let them know that there
is cruelty in the world.

And if we let them experience the world, when they want something we
don't want them to have, then what? How do we control them when they
don't want to be controlled?

Isn't control naturally inherently connected with violence?

Unschoolers have found *from experience* that children avoid what
makes them uncomfortable and watch what they enjoy.

And we're there to help them get what they want and avoid what they
don't want. We're don't set them up so the only choices they have are
to go off alone or be in the room with us while we watch a violent
movie that they aren't interested in.

Children may choose to watch shows that are more violent than we
might be comfortable for them to watch. Is the answer then to be
assert the fact that we're more powerful and they are less powerful
and make them do what we believe is best?

What happens when they are out of your control, when they're at a
friend's house?

While some kids equate rules with safety, that if they just avoid the
don'ts and follow the do's that they'll be safe, most kids when
they're beyond the reach of control go ahead and do what they're
forbidden to do. And they often do it to excess because they know
this may be their one and only opportunity. They may, at the least,
watch an ultraviolent movie that disturbs them greatly just because
they don't want to miss the opportunity when it's there in front of
them.

But if they *always* have the opportunity, when they know they can
shut something off and turn it on tomorrow or the next day or 10
years from now, they don't push themselves beyond their comfort zone.

When the world is divided between what you can and can't have, when
no one's watching it's enticing to reach for what you can't have even
if you don't particularly want it. When the world is divided between
what you like and what you don't like, there's no reason to reach for
what you don't like.

As a peaceful person, I enjoy reading mysteries where people die
often gruesome deaths, enjoy the occasional video game where I kill
things with various weapons and stomp on buildings. I played Man from
U.N.C.L.E. as a child. But I've never done any of those things in
real life and have zero desire to.

If you live your values and provide a loving home for your son, why
would he choose to be a violent person?

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Daniel MacIntyre

almost forgot - quiet is often repressed anger as well, which can have
problems of its own.

from http://www.canville.net/malone/controlanger.html

According to a well-known psychiatrist, Dr. John Terlesky, "Having
angry thoughts are a normal part of life. There is nothing abnormal
about them. However, when anger is repressed for long periods of time,
it comes out twice as strong as when it was repressed."

It is well documented in the mental health field that repressed anger
is a leading cause for depression. If an individual is not permitted
to express himself, or does not permit himself to express his negative
feelings, the feelings are turned on himself. Many suicides and
homicides are a result of anger that was repressed over time.

On 9/29/05, Daniel MacIntyre <daniel.macintyre@...> wrote:
> The loud ones are the ones whose violence is noticed more. I prefer
> the loud people - I know where they are and what they are doing. The
> quiet ones are the ones who simply don't let you know what's going on
> inside.
>
> The phrase "He was always such a quiet person" is very often applied
> to the Jeffrey Dahmer/Ted Bundy types - so often that it is almost
> stereotypical nowadays. The Kids at Columbine - quiet types. The
> worker that "Goes Postal" - also a quiet type. Lee Harvey Oswald - a
> quiet type. John Hinkley - a quiet type.
>
> Never mistake "quiet" for "safe."
>
>
> On 9/28/05, JA Smith <hamiltonj@...> wrote:
> > I agree with Sara about TV....
> > I believe what we see or hear becomes apart of us.
> > Being selective will raise our vibration.
> > Have you ever noticed that violence comes with noise
> > and non-violence happens in silence?
> > People who are violent make a huge noise,
> > they make it known. People who are non-violent are
> > quiet.
> >
> > Watch your thoughts, for they become words.
> > Watch your words, for they become actions.
> > Watch your actions, for they become habits.
> > Watch your habits, for they become character.
> > Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.
> >
> > JA Smith, age 48, mom to Evan, age 3 1/2
> > San Diego
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Daniel
> (Amy is doing a half marathon for Team in Training
> Anyone who wants to help can do so by going to:
> http://www.active.com/donate/fundraise/tntgmoAMacint )
>


--
Daniel
(Amy is doing a half marathon for Team in Training
Anyone who wants to help can do so by going to:
http://www.active.com/donate/fundraise/tntgmoAMacint )

Deb Lewis

***Being selective will raise our vibration.***

I have a kid who's very quiet. He doesn't like loud noise at all. He
listens to music with the volume low. He listens to TV with the volume
low.

And yet...

He started watching monster movies when he was about three years old.
He loved the old Godzilla movies and all the bad sci-fi B movies from the
forties, fifties and sixties. He loves movies in general and has lately
been watching all the movies based (however loosely) on H.P. Lovecraft's
stories. He loves movie violence. We've seen Kill Bill (1 and 2) too
many times to count and he loves the glorious blood fountain of lopped
heads and limbs. <g>

He's had unlimited access to television, video games, music and the
Internet.

And yet...

***Watch your habits, for they become character.***

He's also a vegan, never even swats a mosquito, catches flies to take
them outside, knows the local wildlife rehabbers and has rescued many
wild birds, has never hit another person or critter, and is the most
gentle, non violent person I've ever known. He gave five hundred
dollars of his savings to help pay the expenses for our sick cat. I
didn't even know. He'd walked to the bank and made a withdrawal that
morning when he went to return some videos. Later at the animal hospital
while I was talking with the Vet he made a deposit on the bill. I
didn't know until several days later when I went in to pay.

I always thought it would be more violent of me to prevent him from doing
and seeing and hearing what he was interested in than for him to see fake
violence on TV. I thought that real violence of a big person
controlling and limiting a small person had more potential to do harm
than all the pretend violence on TV or video games.

I never made him watch violent TV and I never stopped him from watching
what he wanted. If I thought something might be scary or disturbing I'd
say so but he was free to decide to watch. I watched with him, helped
him skip parts if he wanted to, more often helped him rewind to parts he
wanted to see again or make sense of. We had many talks about movies,
acting, special effects, story telling, etc. and we still do. He wants
to make movies based on books he's writing. Maybe he will, maybe he
won't, but I could have decided to stand in the way of his learning and
thinking and dreaming by preventing him watching TV all these years. I
chose instead to believe he was a smart and good person who could make
his own decisions and that smart and good people are more at risk of
being altered (mentally, emotionally) by the real people they live with,
by paranoid, reactive parents than by movie special effects.

Deb L

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/29/05 6:46:16 AM, hamiltonj@... writes:


> Being selective will raise our vibration.
>

Do children get to be selective too, or are you recommending that parents be
selective on the children's behalf?

-=-Have you ever noticed that violence comes with noise
                 and non-violence happens in silence?-=-

No, I haven't noticed that. I notice a LOT of loud happiness, with music
and laughter and some of the meanest people I know do what they do in a quiet,
almost sneaky way.

-=- People who are violent make a huge noise, they make it known. People who
are non-violent are quiet. -=-

This is not true in my experience. I can see that it makes a good
rhetorical argument, but I'm way more interested in objective truth and clear
observation of the best parts of the world than in effective rhetoric at the expense of
choices.

-=-Watch your thoughts, for they become words.
Watch your words, for they become actions.
Watch your actions, for they become habits.
Watch your habits, for they become character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.-=-

You have a three year old. You're agreeing with someone who had a three
year old.

When your kids are "schoolage" and you're more experienced with how
unschooling works, this might be good to discuss again.

Maybe you're a very quiet person who married a very quiet man and had a very
quiet child, but I have kids who are 13, 16, 19, NOT very quiet, and not
violent.



Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

> -=-Oh, that's not true at all. I know from experience. I grew up in a very
> quiet home (with tv limits and everything). Yelling wasn't not allowed. But
> let me tell you, plenty of "violence" was done...passive aggressive
> violence, word 'violence'..noise is not an indicator.-=-
>
My husband's family was that way. Their cutting and stabbing was done with
few words, withering looks and derisive looks. He still carries the scars.

Repression can be a very quiet thing.
There can be peace for the controlling party, when the others are quiet.

Unschooling needs lots of rolicking freedom and choice.

Sandra



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

JA Smith

The group made some excellent points ...my comments below.

>When the world is divided between what you can and can't have, when
no one's watching it's enticing to reach for what you can't have even
if you don't particularly want it. When the world is divided between
what you like and what you don't like, there's no reason to reach for
what you don't like.

I love this reasoning "what you like and what you don't like".
But there are such things as good and bad, like an apple vs. cotton
candy.

>Never mistake "quiet" for "safe."

I agree wholehardedly....quiet can be very deadly...I LOVE NOISE -- even
anger.
Rule is: HARM NO ONE or BE HARMLESS.

>I thought that real violence of a big person controlling and limiting a
small person had more potential to do harm than all the pretend violence
on TV or video games.

Very interesting....but still, how can pretend violence be uplifting to
one's soul?

>When your kids are "schoolage" and you're more experienced with how
unschooling works, this might be good to discuss again.

I have 2 grown children and 6 grandbabies along with a 3 yr old (got
prego after I became vegan). I resinated with unschooling when I first
heard about it. I will always be learning.

>My husband's family was that way. Their cutting and stabbing was done
with
few words, withering looks and derisive looks. He still carries the
scars.

I am so sorry to hear about your husband's childhood environment. My
heart goes out to him.
I love noise and did not mean to imply that noise was not acceptable.

Jenny S.
San Diego

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/29/05 2:14:37 PM, hamiltonj@... writes:


> -=-I love this reasoning "what you like and what you don't like".
> But there are such things as good and bad, like an apple vs. cotton
> candy.-=-
>

There's better and worse. I have a friend allergic to apple peel. He
can't have apple juice if any peel is in. He can't eat apples unless the're
peeled. Apples, for him, are pretty bad.

Cotton candy eaten by choice, eaten in joy, would nourish a person better
than apple eaten by force, eaten in sorrow.

-=-I agree wholehardedly....quiet can be very deadly...I LOVE NOISE -- even
anger.-=-

You love anger?

-=-Rule is:  HARM NO ONE or BE HARMLESS.-=-

Whose rule is this?

I don't like rules. I much prefer principles.
If someone is about to rape my daughter, by GOD I want to be harmful to him.

-=-I have 2 grown children and 6 grandbabies along with a 3 yr old (got
prego after I became vegan). -=-

If you didn't unschool any of them, and if you kept them all from TV or
"pretend violence," then wait a few years to make any pronouncements on it. We're
not writing theoretically, those of us whose kids have not been to school and
whose lives aren't limited to mom-choices. We're sharing experiences and
knowledge.

About that food thing, here are some good contributions from past
discussions:
http://sandradodd.com/food

Sandra






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Sep 29, 2005, at 3:28 PM, JA Smith wrote:

> But there are such things as good and bad, like an apple vs. cotton
> candy.
>

If you lump cotton candy in with killing someone, it won't help you
think clearly about how they are different.

A child may choose to eat cotton candy but who will it harm? A child
may choose to eat a lot of cotton candy and feel yucky (or not!) but
who will it harm?

Unschoolers have found when there are no controls on food, children
eat because they're hungry not because there's sugar available.
Often, when food has been controlled -- when distinctions have been
made between good food that you can eaten any time and bad food that
can only be eaten in limited quantities -- then children will binge
because the controls are lifted. They often will eat large amounts of
formerly forbidden foods because they finally can, not because they
want to. It does eventually level off when they're confident that the
controls won't return.

> Very interesting....but still, how can pretend violence be
> uplifting to
> one's soul?
>

How can the real violence of controlling someone be uplifting to the
soul or the relationship?

That statement implies that you plan on your child only experiencing
things that are up lifting. It's going to be a very limited
experience with the world! There's plenty in the world that's just
plain fun or relaxing or enjoyable or challenging or ... that
wouldn't be classified as uplifting to the soul.

The better question to ask is is something doing harm? Unschoolers
find that control is harmful to the relationship. (That doesn't mean
we cut ourselves out of the picture. We're there walking by their
side.) But that free exploration is not harmful because while a child
may explore, if they are loved and treated with respect, they don't
want to hurt.

Pretend violence, knowing that what you're doing won't hurt anyone,
exploring a different world -- a violent world for instance -- that
you wouldn't want to live in, can be fun. My daughter and I might
like to play Godzilla on the GameCube but I sure wouldn't want to be
him and get blasted into buildings by energy bolts ;-) I enjoy
watching Kill Bill but I want to live far far away from that world.
Enjoying a fantasy world that contains violence has nothing to do
with a desire to be violent.

Viewing all art helps us discern (on our own terms) good from bad.
Viewing only good art teaches us what others think is good. It's and
exercise in memorization. Experiencing pretend violence can in fact
reinforce a desire to live in a peaceful world!

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

This is true for me as well. I grew up in a quiet home, where quiet
was
commanded. There was plenty of violence mostly from adults, even from
extended family who lived next door. In this kind of environment a
child must either interface violently and hatefully within oneself or
after a certain age it faces outwardly, and the risk is a sudden
unmasking of violence.

We are very noisy here in my home but dh and I don't believe violence
solves anything. It only creates more violence.

Kathe




April wrote:

>Oh, that's not true at all. I know from experience. I grew up in a
very
>quiet home (with tv limits and everything). Yelling wasn't not
allowed.
>But
>let me tell you, plenty of "violence" was done...passive aggressive
>violence, word 'violence'..noise is not an indicator.
>
>
>
>Our home now is wonderfully noisy and chaotic much of the time, but
not
>violent at all, in words or deeds. But you're right, what we see or
>hear
>can become part of us and I hope my children and seeing AND hearing
>lots of
>love, joy, acceptance, fun, and all that is involved in growing and
>learning.
>
>
>
>~April
>Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-16, Karl-14, & Ben-10.
>*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
> <http://www.reachhomeschool.com> www.reachhomeschool.com
>







______________________________________________________
Yahoo! for Good
Donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/

Manisha Kher

--- JA Smith <hamiltonj@...> wrote:
>
> >I thought that real violence of a big person
> controlling and limiting a
> small person had more potential to do harm than all
> the pretend violence
> on TV or video games.
>
> Very interesting....but still, how can pretend
> violence be uplifting to
> one's soul?
>
By being cathartic. By providing an outlet for a lot
of frustrations and anger.

I've just started reading a very interesting book
called "Killing Monsters: Why Children Need Fantasy,
Super-Heroes and Make Believe Violence" by Gerard
Jones. I haven't read enough yet to review it, here's
a link to someone else's review of the book
http://www.aacap.org/popCulture/Literature/killingMonsters.htm

Manisha



__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

Krisula Moyer

Joyce said >>...It's easy when they're onlies and very young. We *are* in
control of

their environment and it seems easy to assume we'll always be able to

filter the world so they only experience what is kind and good. But

to do that we have to cut them off from the world. We can't let them

play with kids who turn sticks into guns, or let them see carnivorous

dinosaurs eating peaceful plant eaters, or let them know that there

is cruelty in the world....<<

This conversation reminds me of The Giver by Lois Lowry. The society seems
so sweet and polite and orderly until you learn the truth about how they
achieve it.

I remember when my first child was little and our house really was very
peaceful and quiet a lot of the time. But the thought of trying to keep him
at that stage instead of joyfully following him into his various other
stages with all the noisy messy wonderfulness would be really sad. It's
great,though, to live in that place with him while he's there. The house
was a much "livelier" environment by the time #3 came along. But her sweet
peaceful stage purred along just beneath the din. Her noisy stage was even
louder than the others' because the point of it is to be heard. She had to
be heard over all of our busy lives -and she was : ) FWIW, it's the
oldest, who had that quiet toddler hood , who is biggest into video games
and such now. The little one (now 5) doesn't watch near as much TV though
she's welcome to it.

(can you tell i'm writing this at 2am?)

Krisula



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

> -=-I've just started reading a very interesting book
> called "Killing Monsters: Why Children Need Fantasy,
> Super-Heroes and Make Believe Violence" by Gerard
> Jones.-=-
>
There's a link (I hope, still) to a Gerard Jones article from a few years
back here:
http://sandradodd.com/videogames

For the pre-video games analysis of similar ideas, Karl Jung and Bruno
Bettelheim, both of whom were involved in early psychiatry and were interested in
the situations and characters in fairy tales and religious stories, and how
people learn from them and how they process ideas about evil. Some of their
stuff seems dated, but the idea that it can be useful at some point for children
to think about violence and danger isn't new.

When The Simpsons first came out there was great hue and cry that children
would identify with Bart and all become bratty. Why no hue and cry that dads
would identify with Homer and become dangerously misguided fathers? Partly,
many adults think children are stupid. Partly, they just hadn't considered
the value of a bad example, a silly/crazy HORRIBLY bad example.

Sandra



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ren Allen

"Watch your thoughts, for they become words.
Watch your words, for they become actions.
Watch your actions, for they become habits.
Watch your habits, for they become character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny."

Somebody did a good job of convincing you this was true. It's not.

My children love violent video games like Doom, GTA and Fable....but
they are some very non-violent people in reality. Apparently
entertainment and puzzles don't equal destiny.

I have many, many thoughts that don't become words. I have many, many
words I like to write that would never become actions, most writers do.
There are loads of actions I do for the purpose of accomplishing
something, but they never have the chance to become a habit.

I understand the sentiment behind the saying, but it's not even close
to truth.

Ren

Ren Allen

"I believe what we see or hear becomes apart of us."

When I saw a lady hit by a car just moments after it happened, that
was something I didn't choose. It was real life violence, I stopped to
see if I could help her. It didn't become part of me, but it DID
affect me deeply...seeing a real person dying isn't always easy for
the average person, I'm no medic.

Children are smarter than the world gives them credit for. They can
understand the difference between television and reality, they can
play games and see things that they would never want to actually act out.

I think it comes down to trust. If you don't think children can choose
what they are comfortable viewing, there is a lack of trust. The very
best unschooling unfolds in an atmosphere of trust.

Ren

Pamela Sorooshian

On Oct 1, 2005, at 5:43 PM, Ren Allen wrote:

> "Watch your thoughts, for they become words.
> Watch your words, for they become actions.
> Watch your actions, for they become habits.
> Watch your habits, for they become character.
> Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny."


The most amazing breakthrough moment for me, as I came to understand
and embrace unschooling, occurred during a talk that Sandra Dodd gave
at a homeschool conference. She was encouraging people to "be brave"
in their thinking - to consider all options, to really open our minds
and consider possibilities that we might normally automatically
reject. She said it was safe to think "dangerous thoughts" and that
if we were afraid, to duct-tape ourselves to a chair and get someone
to be a spotter for us and just sit there and think all the dangerous
thoughts we could. She said that when we were done, we'd still be
there, still in that chair, nobody else would even KNOW what we'd
thought, and, if we wanted, we could go on as if we'd never thought
those thoughts.

I took it as a challenge - the idea that I was self-censoring my own
thinking hadn't even ever occurred to me (censored, itself <g>). So
right there, in the conference, I tried to rummage around in my brain
and see if I could find something to think about that was
"dangerous." I remember one of the things I thought was: "Maybe I
should never have had kids because I might be an awful parent and
ruin their lives." Another thing I thought was, "I really wasted many
years in school while I focused on being the "good" student and
worrying about pleasing teachers." I didn't write all these things
down - I just edged toward ideas in my head and was aware when I had
the urge to look the other way and I made myself pay attention. It
was amazing - incredibly liberating. I WAS afraid to let go and do it
too much - afraid that I'd embarrass myself by speaking out loud or
something. But I was forever changed right then and there. My
awareness of my OWN capacity for self-delusion, for rationalization,
for projection, for avoidance of uncomfortable ideas, was raised and
there was no going back.

I do NOT believe that our thoughts somehow automatically become our
words - not that directly, anyway. And there are so many times when
people's words do NOT become actions - hypocrisy, lies, broken
promises, good intentions with no follow-through - those all happen
all the time.

It all sounds nice - it has a ring of logical steps, one following
from another - but it isn't really logical.

-pam




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/1/05 7:14:23 PM, pamsoroosh@... writes:


> -=-I do NOT believe that our thoughts somehow automatically become our 
> words - not that directly, anyway. And there are so many times when 
> people's words do NOT become actions - hypocrisy, lies, broken 
> promises, good intentions with no follow-through - those all happen 
> all the time.-=-
>
Pam loves a musical I can't even listen to, though I tried when she first
gave me a copy, and I tried a couple of times later (once very recently, and I
wanted to like it).

I confessed to Pam that it agitated me so much that I wanted to slap the
performers and then go and find the composer and slap him. Luckily, though, I
could just turn it off (I had rented it on DVD, though I had a copy on tape, so
I could listen while I worked online). Much more peaceful to turn it off,
and I didn't REALLY want to slap anyone, but it gave me that agitated,
irritated adrenaline rush that makes people want to squeal in an unfocussed expression
of "STOP IT!"

Very little music has ever affected me that way. <g>

Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/1/2005 10:30:26 PM Central Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

Pam loves a musical I can't even listen to, though I tried when she first
gave me a copy, and I tried a couple of times later (once very recently,
and I
wanted to like it).



~~~

Okay, now I REALLY want to know what the musical was!

Karen


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kelli Traaseth

***Okay, now I REALLY want to know what the musical was!***



Thank you Karen! Me too! :D



Kelli~ who just saw her first broadway production of Cats and is still a little lost on what happened there! lol






---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

> -=-***Okay, now I REALLY want to know what the musical was!***
>
> -=-Thank you Karen!  Me too!  :D
>

Into the Woods


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kelli Traaseth

****Into the Woods


Hmmm,, I saw an "Into the Woods" down in Minneapolis at The Children's Theatre, but I'm not sure it's the same thing. If was fun, I remember really big trees. But not a whole lot more,, some good humor I think, I remember the kids at the time didn't get all the jokes but they liked the storybook characters that were in it. Giants I think, and something about shoes? Man,, my memory. < . <

Maybe it's the same.

Kelli~






---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

On Oct 2, 2005, at 11:04 AM, Kelli Traaseth wrote:

> Hmmm,, I saw an "Into the Woods" down in Minneapolis at The
> Children's Theatre, but I'm not sure it's the same thing. If was
> fun, I remember really big trees. But not a whole lot more,,
> some good humor I think, I remember the kids at the time didn't
> get all the jokes but they liked the storybook characters that were
> in it. Giants I think, and something about shoes? Man,, my
> memory. < . <
>

Children's version - they only do the first half. The second half is
DARK and scary and sexual and very heavy. It is Steven Sondheim and
filled with word play.

Even the first half - the mixture of different fairy tales - is
extremely original and clever and intricate.

I do love it. My family has a tradition of watching it every New
Year's Eve - we can't remember how that started, but we have done it
for years.

Roxana is playing Rapunzel in it, right now, in a community college
production.

The song, "Children will Listen," sung by the witch (played by
Bernadette Peters in the video/dvd version), is just incredible.
Makes me cry every time.

-pam

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

On Oct 2, 2005, at 6:57 AM, Kelli Traaseth wrote:

> Kelli~ who just saw her first broadway production of Cats and is
> still a little lost on what happened there! lol
>
>


No plot? No problem. (Theme of National Novel Writing Month -
NaNoWriMo.)

(Hint: CATS is ALL about the characters and is poetry in dance,
music, and song.)

-pam

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kelli Traaseth

Oooh,, cool Pam, thanks for the info. I'm gonna have to check it out. I love fairy tale stuff.

I think I could get it from Netflix.

Kelli~





Children's version - they only do the first half. The second half is
DARK and scary and sexual and very heavy. It is Steven Sondheim and
filled with word play.

Even the first half - the mixture of different fairy tales - is
extremely original and clever and intricate.

I do love it. My family has a tradition of watching it every New
Year's Eve - we can't remember how that started, but we have done it
for years.

Roxana is playing Rapunzel in it, right now, in a community college
production.

The song, "Children will Listen," sung by the witch (played by
Bernadette Peters in the video/dvd version), is just incredible.
Makes me cry every time.

-pam

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




SPONSORED LINKS

American family home insurance American family home insurance company American family home owner insurance Multi family home for sale Single family home for sale Family home finance



---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS




Visit your group "AlwaysLearning" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


---------------------------------




---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

Ren Allen wrote:

>"Watch your thoughts, for they become words.
>Watch your words, for they become actions.
>Watch your actions, for they become habits.
>Watch your habits, for they become character.
>Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny."
>
>Somebody did a good job of convincing you this was true. It's not.
>
><snip> I have many, many thoughts that don't become words. I have
many, many
>words I like to write that would never become actions, most writers
do.
>There are loads of actions I do for the purpose of accomplishing
>something, but they never have the chance to become a habit.<snip>
>

This is true of the many things (well actually most things) I've
painted. They haven't become reality. Sometimes that's the purpose of

all art in my opinion-- To imagine something into enough reality to
experience it a little without having to deal with the full fledged
consequences of the same thing in real life.

Kathe








__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com