Nanci Kuykendall

I have a question. Does anyone force or enforce older
siblings (or cousins) having to play with and include
younger kids in whatever they want to be included in?
Does anyone have any thoughts on the possible
repercussions of this?

My sister-in-law and brother seem to think it's a
wonderful thing that they "make all (their) kids play
together." What that really means is that if the
younger children, their four year old boy Aidan in
particular because he's the most demanding of their
two younger children, want to get into a game or
activity of the older kids, he MUST be accomodated or
the older children will be punished. If he wants to
be left alone with what he's doing however, they must
accomodate that as well.

My older son Thomas (8) has trouble with this boy, not
because he dislikes him, because he actually likes him
a lot. Aidan's actually a very clever and sweet child
with much of the same interests as Thomas. The first
thing Thomas did when we arrived was to run and show
Aidan his bionicle toys. Thomas has trouble because
he is not flexible enough to immediately wrap his mind
around adjusting the game/play to include this rather
demading and sensative four year old, who is also a
LOT like Thomas himself (not a comparison I can make
in front of Aidan's parents.)

Thomas also has trouble because Aidan wants to lead
the play and must be dealt with in a gentle and
politic way to avoid tantrums. Aidan also, like most
toddlers, wants whatever you have and to be wherever
you are, just because you have it and are there.
Thomas is not known for his subtlety or patience and
has trouble communicating what he means in a socially
acceptable way and a way that will appease this little
cousin. They misunderstand each other and lose
patience with each other a lot.

The invariable result of all this is that my
sister-in-law calls her girls over and tells them they
cannot play with Thomas if he will not include Aidan.
Thomas would actually be happy to include Aidan (and
has numerous times) if he had time and assistance to
mediate incorporating him into a game. Aidan throws a
tantrum at any sign of resistance or wrong word or
action from Thomas and then Aidan's parents step in
with ultimatums or just shortcut to scolding my son.
When I have a chance to step in instead I can mediate
them successfully into a mutually acceptable play
situation. Thomas also plays with Aidan on his own
numerous times but Aidan's parents seem never to have
noticed. They have villified Thomas into a bad and
mean older child deliberately excluding Aidan, which
he is not. It's more like two similar children of a
similar emotional age having trouble communicating
with each other.

I am wondering both how others might have dealt with a
similar situation and what some thoughts are on this
"enforced sibling harmony." My feelings are that it
causes resentment and ill feelings between siblings
eventually, and is contributing more to Aidan's being
hair trigger sensative about exclusion. I commented
at one point in the course of the weekend about how
well their 2 year old boy was playing with another two
year old boy in the campground, as most kids that age
simply play near each other not WITH each other, but
there was a lot of intereaction going on between them.
I was thinking this has everything to do with my baby
nephew's personality, but my sister-in-law responded
"That's because I MAKE all my children play together."

Nanci K.

Dana Matt

--- Nanci Kuykendall <aisliin@...> wrote:

> I have a question. Does anyone force or enforce
> older
> siblings (or cousins) having to play with and
> include
> younger kids in whatever they want to be included
> in?
> Does anyone have any thoughts on the possible
> repercussions of this?
>

I would never do as your SIL and "make" my kids play
together--my kids really like to play together,
despite their age differences, and when we have other
kids over I don't allow *them* to leave anyone out.
My oldest is almost 13, and she has no problem playing
with my 7 yo, but her friends are often horrible,
teasing, being rude, saying things like "Let's put up
a 'No 7 yos allowed' sign "or some such....and I tell
them that's not ok, and this is his house, not theirs,
and they can include him or go home. That being said,
I would also be there in the mix, trying to mediate,
and trying to find something more fun for the 7 yo if
that is what he preferred...

Dana


Guadalupe's Coffee Roaster
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arcarpenter2003

--- In [email protected], Nanci Kuykendall <aisliin@y...>
wrote:
== What that really means is that if the
> younger children, their four year old boy Aidan in
> particular because he's the most demanding of their
> two younger children, want to get into a game or
> activity of the older kids, he MUST be accomodated or
> the older children will be punished. ==

And what *that* really means is that the parent either is unable to or
is choosing not to actually communicate with everyone involved about
how they are feeling and what they want and possible solutions.

Of course, that means talking with the children and listening to their
feelings every time it comes up -- it seems easier on the surface to
just lay down a rule and punish the older kids, who understand
punishment better (though, sadly, not communication).

What actually happens -- when the parent puts in the effort to talk it
through and mediate each time -- what actually happens is that the
kids get better at coming up with mutually beneficial solutions
themselves.

I'm actually watching this happen right now with our neighborhood kids
and our new trampoline. I am out there nearly constantly, helping my
children, who are younger than the others -- my older son can hit
sensory overload rather quickly, and then he gets inflexible. So I
make sure that I help them speak up for what they need and want, as
well as making sure things are safe, and listening to the ideas that
all the kids have for working things out. We're on week 3, and the
ideas are getting better and better -- sometimes more inclusive,
sometimes recognizing that a particular mix of children isn't working
very well. The ideas are getting more respectful, more creative, more
willing to give a bit because each child knows that if we can find a
way, we are more than happy to let them use the trampoline as much as
they want, in the way they want to.

I've learned a ton about good communication, and my sons are learning
a ton about their own bodies and gravity and fun trampoline games with
friends.


==
> Thomas would actually be happy to include Aidan (and
> has numerous times) if he had time and assistance to
> mediate incorporating him into a game. ==

Then are you able to provide that mediation, for Thomas' sake?

It's really not fair for Thomas' choices to be a) excluded from play
altogether or b) forced to always play a social role past his own
ability. And to be shamed no matter what. I know you know this, from
the tone of your email. So what can you do to make sure he is not put
into that situation again?

If you feel you must (or want to) keep seeing this family, and you
can't constantly interpret for Thomas, can your visits at least be in
a situation where you and Thomas can leave when he needs to, so he can
regroup and reconnect again?

Can you have a good NVC talk with your SIL, recognizing that she
doesn't want her son to be left out, but letting her know that Thomas'
limits are real (we all have limits) and they need to be respected?

If that doesn't work, can you keep visits with this family short for a
few years? In time, all these kids will mature, including Thomas, and
the situation will be easier.

Speaking for myself, I would not put my son in a situation where he
was asked to do more than he could and then made to feel shame when he
couldn't. That would be damaging to him, and my job is to give him
the space and the support to be who he is, whether or not "who he is"
is what others think he should be.

Peace,
Amy

Jordan

Reading this made me think of something that happened here last nite:
>>>And what *that* really means is that the parent either is unable to or
is choosing not to actually communicate with everyone involved about
how they are feeling and what they want and possible solutions.<<<



At our house, Andrew came home from work with two big “play sets” for
Cassidy (4) and Adam (2). One was a little battery powered train and the
other an “old west” village, both with people and accessories. They were
all working together to open them (what a darn chore these days…someone
should introduce a bill in congress limiting toy packaging, but that’s
another story…) and set them up. There ensued the requisite, “Hey! That’s
mine! I want it! No! Give it here!” etc…and I was ready to step in to
help with negotiating the situation. Andrew embraces ”win-win situations”
in theory, but in practice is likely to fall back on the old “if you can’t
share, nobody gets to play” song and dance.

I was surprised to hear this instead. “Okay guys—all this disagreement is
making me feel fussy. Cassidy—what do you need? Okay, here is a girl and a
dog. Adam, if you need a dog, I’ll get you one from little people—he can
fit on the train too. We can work this out so we can all play and nobody
cries. Ready? Okay, all aboard the train….”

Need I say more?

Tami, who was washing dishes and enjoying the water, the soapsuds and the
conversation.


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

J. Stauffer

<<< Does anyone force or enforce older
siblings (or cousins) having to play with and include
younger kids in whatever they want to be included in? >>>

As with most things, this would "depend" at our house. Most of the time the
kids do play well together and in fact someone was just commenting on it
last night. Occassionally, one of the kids is excluded and crying. I think
of it as a symptom rather than the actual problem.

The actual problem is usually either one of the kids is trying to be too
bossy to the other kids and they get tired of it and "kick them out" or one
of the kids gets a bit of a mean streak and is being cliquish.

If someone is "kicked out" we talk about the behavior that caused it, how
could it be handled differently, how to approach the other kids to apologise
and see if you can get back in the game.

If it is being "cliquish", I talk with the excluder about how they have felt
when people have excluded them, etc..

However, having 5 kids in the house, sometimes you just want to do what you
want to do without having to accommodate other people.....we try to respect
that too.

Julie S.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nanci Kuykendall" <aisliin@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 5:20 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] sibling playing


>I have a question. Does anyone force or enforce older
> siblings (or cousins) having to play with and include
> younger kids in whatever they want to be included in?
> Does anyone have any thoughts on the possible
> repercussions of this?
>
> My sister-in-law and brother seem to think it's a
> wonderful thing that they "make all (their) kids play
> together." What that really means is that if the
> younger children, their four year old boy Aidan in
> particular because he's the most demanding of their
> two younger children, want to get into a game or
> activity of the older kids, he MUST be accomodated or
> the older children will be punished. If he wants to
> be left alone with what he's doing however, they must
> accomodate that as well.
>
> My older son Thomas (8) has trouble with this boy, not
> because he dislikes him, because he actually likes him
> a lot. Aidan's actually a very clever and sweet child
> with much of the same interests as Thomas. The first
> thing Thomas did when we arrived was to run and show
> Aidan his bionicle toys. Thomas has trouble because
> he is not flexible enough to immediately wrap his mind
> around adjusting the game/play to include this rather
> demading and sensative four year old, who is also a
> LOT like Thomas himself (not a comparison I can make
> in front of Aidan's parents.)
>
> Thomas also has trouble because Aidan wants to lead
> the play and must be dealt with in a gentle and
> politic way to avoid tantrums. Aidan also, like most
> toddlers, wants whatever you have and to be wherever
> you are, just because you have it and are there.
> Thomas is not known for his subtlety or patience and
> has trouble communicating what he means in a socially
> acceptable way and a way that will appease this little
> cousin. They misunderstand each other and lose
> patience with each other a lot.
>
> The invariable result of all this is that my
> sister-in-law calls her girls over and tells them they
> cannot play with Thomas if he will not include Aidan.
> Thomas would actually be happy to include Aidan (and
> has numerous times) if he had time and assistance to
> mediate incorporating him into a game. Aidan throws a
> tantrum at any sign of resistance or wrong word or
> action from Thomas and then Aidan's parents step in
> with ultimatums or just shortcut to scolding my son.
> When I have a chance to step in instead I can mediate
> them successfully into a mutually acceptable play
> situation. Thomas also plays with Aidan on his own
> numerous times but Aidan's parents seem never to have
> noticed. They have villified Thomas into a bad and
> mean older child deliberately excluding Aidan, which
> he is not. It's more like two similar children of a
> similar emotional age having trouble communicating
> with each other.
>
> I am wondering both how others might have dealt with a
> similar situation and what some thoughts are on this
> "enforced sibling harmony." My feelings are that it
> causes resentment and ill feelings between siblings
> eventually, and is contributing more to Aidan's being
> hair trigger sensative about exclusion. I commented
> at one point in the course of the weekend about how
> well their 2 year old boy was playing with another two
> year old boy in the campground, as most kids that age
> simply play near each other not WITH each other, but
> there was a lot of intereaction going on between them.
> I was thinking this has everything to do with my baby
> nephew's personality, but my sister-in-law responded
> "That's because I MAKE all my children play together."
>
> Nanci K.
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/7/05 2:14:31 AM, atj090@... writes:


> I was surprised to hear this instead.  “Okay guys—all this disagreement is
> making me feel fussy.  Cassidy—what do you need?  Okay, here is a girl and a
> dog.  Adam, if you need a dog, I’ll get you one from little people—he can
> fit on the train too.  We can work this out so we can all play and nobody
> cries.  Ready?  Okay, all aboard the train….”
>
> Need I say more?
>

This is really, really sweet.

Holly loves spinach.
She has never once ever been made to eat or even taste spinach.
If she had, I doubt she would want anything to do with it.

I've appealed to my kids to let siblings play.
I've asked when there were guests for them to find something the youngest
guests can do, or find something they can do that includes all the guests, and
they've been really willing to to do that, because they remember what it feels
like to be left out.

Just lately, Marty's hanging-out group has started including Holly in their
outings. I didn't "make them," and didn't ask them to. She got old enough
that they wanted her there. The other night they were all getting together
and one of the boys (a homeschooled 16 year old) needed to go and get his older
sister from their house in another town. He offered to take Holly with him.
Then when they had her they were going to meet up with Marty and three
others at an all night restaurant. I let her go. The next morning Holly said
it had been really nice that he had taken her because they were having fun,
not just because he didn't want to dump her. (He was at the house and Kirby
left, then Marty left, and he was still involved in doing something with
Holly.)

But if we ever "made" people include the younger, that couldn't have
happened. Holly couldn't have known that she had been included out of the others'
free choice if they didn't really have free choice.

I've also always been willing to distract and extricate a younger child who's
being irritating to the older ones so that the person to "blame" for removing
him/her from a situation that was going bad was me, and not the older kids.
That makes a big difference too. If I thought Holly was starting to get
on other kids nerves and they were going to be forced to try to run her off,
I'd offer to take her to the store with me, or call her in another room to show
her something, and if that didn't distract her sufficiently, I would say to
her (in private) I thought she should leave Kirby/Marty alone a while.
Sometimes she chose to go and try again, but I'd tell her that she needed to be
sensitive enough to take a hint, if they seemed not to want her, and not press
until they said something mean.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nanci K.

> And what *that* really means is that the parent either is unable
>to or is choosing not to actually communicate with everyone
>involved about how they are feeling and what they want and possible
>solutions.

Precisely. I think they are both unable and choosing not to,
depending on the particular instance. They do also have an active
two year old boy to chase after. I couldn't help physically
cringing as I listened to my brother, last weekend, forcing his 8
year old into bed in her tent with her sister. She said "But I
don't want to go to bed yet..etc" crying. He responds angrily "I
don't CARE what you want, I told you to..." bla bla

Listening to children takes time, and effort, and patience, and
respect for them as equal human beings not your property. It's not
as easy on the surface as ordering them about. I think therin lies
the root of this problem.

> > Thomas would actually be happy to include Aidan (and
> > has numerous times) if he had time and assistance to
> > mediate incorporating him into a game. ==
>
> Then are you able to provide that mediation, for Thomas' sake?

I try to, but I can't be everywhere and Thomas literally runs all
over. I try to keep myself nearby, which is how I often witness
this stuff, but they are so quick to start scolding, issuing
ultimatums, etc. I can still try to mediate after the ultimatums
are issued, sort of ignoring them or pretending they are not there,
but the kids all still heard them. I don't allow them to verbally
abuse my son, so they issue their ultimatums to their own
girls, "You can't play with Thomas for a while (or) until.." making
him the bad guy.

Mainly I try to help mediate, but I have to be fast, verbally and
physically. Even then the other adults (my own father and Aidan's
mother being the worst culprits) will sometimes not allow the time
for that to happen (by talking over me to say "No, we're not
compromising, Aidan gets to play too, or play with what you have or
where you are..") and my efforts go by the wayside. Other times
they just mutter amongst themselves about the latest precieved mini-
atrocity they think Thomas is guilty of.

Often the best strategy is for me to play with Aidan and give him
something to do until the other kids have worked out a solution,
whisking him away from the scene and offering him various options
and calming him down. He really is a sweet kid, I just think they
are teaching him that throwing tantrums at the least provocation is
a good way to deal with things. If he is really determined to play
with the other kids (often he's happier to do something with me)
then we will return when all are calm and I facilitate that. I
can't control what the other adults do during this time however.

> It's really not fair for Thomas' choices to be a) excluded from
>play altogether or b) forced to always play a social role past his
>own ability. And to be shamed no matter what. I know you know
>this, from the tone of your email. So what can you do to make sure
>he is not put into that situation again?

Right, I completely agree. I don't know the solution. This is my
dilema. They seem not to absorb the information I tell them about
Thomas, the discussions we have about his limitations or
difficulties. They are dismissive of my attempts to explain what I
see happening between him and Aidan and why I don't think it's as
they see it. They believe I am merely being defensive of Thomas,
even though they know that he's autistic and has other "special
needs", and even though my sister-in-law has a high functioning
autistic younger brother. They know it, but they don't act like the
know it, if you know what I mean.

I don't want to start a war with my brother and his wife and have
them punish me by not allowing their kids to see us. Thomas adores
his cousins and I can't decide for him that we won't see them, as he
would be desperately sad. I try to get them to send at least their
older two out for visits (we live 5-6 hours away) but so far have
been unsuccessful. School rules their lives and they won't allow
them to miss even part of a day for a visit and they make excuses in
the summer. This camping trip happens once a year and we see them a
couple other times, maybe, during the year. We saw the girls
earlier this spring on a two day visit with their grandparents
(their parents were not with them) for Alex, my 7 year old's
birthday. There were no problem's at all, except tears when they
said goodbye.

My brother is bringing all four of his kids out to our area for a 4
day camping trip in early September and we will be going with them
and are very hopeful that without his wife and our father around we
can make some kind of inroads into understanding between us. I feel
that the main problem is not between the kids, but with the other
adults poor reactions to the situation with the kids. With a better
adult reaction it would turn into a non or at least very small
issue, and Aidan and Thomas, I believe, would find their way to
communication and understanding between them.

> If you feel you must (or want to) keep seeing this family, and you
> can't constantly interpret for Thomas, can your visits at least be
>in a situation where you and Thomas can leave when he needs to, so
>he can regroup and reconnect again?

We had out tent placed at a distance from the group camp of 15
people specifically for this reason. The problem is that Thomas
doesn't want to leave and regroup, can't read his own needs and
feelings well, is excited and worked up playing with his other
cousins, and we end up having to make him do it as gently as
possible (some of the necessary structure with him I discussed.) It
still helps to be at a distance like that, but difficult to convince
him to utilize that.

> Can you have a good NVC talk with your SIL, recognizing that she
> doesn't want her son to be left out, but letting her know that
>Thomas' limits are real (we all have limits) and they need to be
>respected?

Our discussions thus far have not been formal, but maybe that is
what needs to happen in order to help this situation and get them to
take what I say seriously. It's definately an idea worth
contemplating.

> If that doesn't work, can you keep visits with this family short
>for a few years? In time, all these kids will mature, including
>Thomas, and the situation will be easier.

Two to four day visits about three times a year seems pretty short
to me. If you mean several hour visits instead, that doesn't seem
possible, given that it takes 5-6 hours just to travel between our
homes.

> Speaking for myself, I would not put my son in a situation where he
> was asked to do more than he could and then made to feel shame
>when he couldn't.
> Amy

We agonize for months every year over whether we should go on this
4th of July trip or not. So far the benefits have outweighed the
detractors but not a huge amount. Overall the kids remember playing
with their cousins and all the fun stuff. They unequivocally vote
to go every year (as in "Of COURSE Mom! We HAVE to go!") I want
them to have this opportunity and the good memories. The girls (my
8 and 10 year old neices) both told me several times that it was
their favorite time all year. It's us adults who seem to suffer
more and are hesitant about going. Our 19 year old (my neice whom I
raised as a young child and who's lived with us for several years
now) chose not to go this year even though she really wanted to see
the little ones, specifically to avoid the other adults besides us.

Thanks for taking the time to answer in such depth. I appreciate
your input.

Nanci K.

Nanci K.

> But if we ever "made" people include the younger, that couldn't
>have happened. Holly couldn't have known that she had been
>included out of the others' free choice if they didn't really
>have free choice.

This is my feeling as well. When it's forced, the older children
are resentful and it hurts their relationship with the younger
children, and the younger children end up feeling like no one likes
them for themselves or on their own merits. I don't believe, as my
sister in law does, that it create healthy and harmonious family
relationships.

> I've also always been willing to distract and extricate a younger
>child who's being irritating to the older ones so that the person
to "blame" for removing him/her from a situation that was going bad
was me, and not the older kids.
> Sometimes she chose to go and try again, but I'd tell her that she
>needed to be sensitive enough to take a hint, if they seemed not to
>want her, and not press until they said something mean.
> Sandra

That's how I choose to handle it as well, at home and in other
settings.

Nanci K.

Nanci K.

I just remembered something from last weekend. We always have a
birthday party during this campout for the oldest (their 10 year old)
and she is shy and didn't want to read her cards aloud to a big group
as her mother was ordering her. Particularly the longer cards, which
is like making a speech with no preparation. Her mother said "You
better read that card. I was always made to read all my cards out
loud when I was growing up, so you have to as well." I SO wanted to
comment on the absurdity of that remark. My neice turned her head
away, rolled here eyes and picked up her next gift, thanking the giver
and moving the party onward. My mother picked up the card and read it
aloud for her. Her mother got left behind in her protestations and
she ran out of steam since no one was backing her. I wanted to CHEER!
for my neice. Poor kid. She's got quiet spunk.

Nanci K.

nellebelle

>>>>>>>>>and are very hopeful that without his wife and our father around we can make some kind of inroads into understanding between us. I feel
that the main problem is not between the kids, but with the other
adults poor reactions to the situation with the kids>>>>>>>>>>>>

I find that my dh tends to slide into more authoritarian parenting when we are around his siblings. His parents have both died, so their influence is only from the past, not the present.

Mary Ellen

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/7/05 6:23:17 PM, aisliin@... writes:


> He responds angrily "I
> don't CARE what you want
>

A shiver went through me when I read that.
I don't know how many times my mother said that, and with *feeling.*
And she said a worse version sometimes: "It doesn't matter what you want."

Maybe you should write a general letter to the other adult relatives and say
you're considering not participating if they can't lighten up. Vacations
aren't fun unless everyone's having fun, and if their "fun" is being mean, you're
not interested anymore.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

mother_bhaer

>
> A shiver went through me when I read that.
> I don't know how many times my mother said that, and with *feeling.*
> And she said a worse version sometimes: "It doesn't matter what
you want."

It is so hard for me to even get past this statement because it is so
sad. I don't understand why people think that because they're bigger
they matter more. It really makes me think of Hitler. We, as
Americans, shouldn't be suprised by people like him. He was probably
taught, like most of us, that when you got bigger you didn't have to
bother with what weaker people wanted.


>
> Maybe you should write a general letter to the other adult
relatives and say
> you're considering not participating if they can't lighten up.
Vacations
> aren't fun unless everyone's having fun, and if their "fun" is
being mean, you're
> not interested anymore.
>
> Sandra
>
>


I have to agree. When dh and I married, FIL to be said we should
have the cousins in our wedding. Dh didn't want to, but we gave in.
FIL said that "blood was thicker than water." I can't agree. We
can't get in touch with those cousins. We call and call (and
finally, have stopped) and they never return our calls. We talk to
our friends more often and have seen those people when we go home for
visits.

Our close friends stayed up way into the night to help us move when
my in-laws and cousins, once again weren't around or they were too
busy. Our friends babysit our dog when we have to leave and our
family won't. Sorry to go on, but this is a sore spot with me right
now. My dh's grandmother is expected to die any moment; my children
want to try to get there to see her one more time, but my FIL said
that we can't come to their house. SIL "can't have us" (it would
only be three) and we don't have the money for a hotel until the time
of the funeral (it could be days). My kids are crushed.

I do have a point in all this ranting. If I remember correctly, the
initial poster said that her children saw the cousins only once or
twice a year and they really didn't want to miss this time. It seems
like you might could find some really good friends to spend this time
with and that would also make wonderful memories for your kids.
Especially if you talk to the adults involved and they can't behave
like adults. Blood isn't always thicker than water!

Terri

Robyn Coburn

<<<<<< It really makes me think of Hitler. We, as
Americans, shouldn't be suprised by people like him. He was probably
taught, like most of us, that when you got bigger you didn't have to
bother with what weaker people wanted. >>>>>

Alice Miller has written a treatise I guess it would be called, about
Hitler's childhood traumas and resultant psychological disfunctions. Much of
her writing including some of that is collected at the surprisingly titled
www.thisisawar.com (the war being against childhood violence and abuse in
general), if that interests you.

<<<< My dh's grandmother is expected to die any moment; my children
want to try to get there to see her one more time, but my FIL said
that we can't come to their house. SIL "can't have us" (it would
only be three) and we don't have the money for a hotel until the time
of the funeral (it could be days). My kids are crushed.>>>>

How very sad for you all. Would it be possible ($ wise) for you to visit for
over night just to say goodbye, then return at a later time to visit her
grave when expenses allow? We visited my mother prior to her imminent death,
then chose not to return for the cremation service. We created our own
private memorial ritual scattering her ashes with Jayn. Maybe you could
create your own at the gravesite (assuming burial) bypassing the uncongenial
relatives completely.

<<<<< I do have a point in all this ranting. If I remember correctly, the
initial poster said that her children saw the cousins only once or
twice a year and they really didn't want to miss this time. >>>>

Jayn can hardly wait for the Conference where she expects to see several
children that she made friends with last year. Sometimes once or twice a
year can be great if it really creates special memories. Of course these
kids are accompanied by wonderful adults!

Robyn L. Coburn

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katherand2003

--- In [email protected], "Nanci K." <aisliin@y...> wrote:

>
> Often the best strategy is for me to play with Aidan and give him
> something to do until the other kids have worked out a solution,
> whisking him away from the scene and offering him various options
> and calming him down. He really is a sweet kid, I just think they
> are teaching him that throwing tantrums at the least provocation is
> a good way to deal with things. If he is really determined to play
> with the other kids (often he's happier to do something with me)
> then we will return when all are calm and I facilitate that. I
> can't control what the other adults do during this time however.
>


Due to some circumstances where me and 2 year old ds found ourselves for 3
LOOOONG months... ugh (which we are thankfully now out of), I found this to be
100% true. You can't control what others do and this can harmfully impact your child.
Ds is much calmer with just me. I would luv for him to have some kids to play with
where because of other children and adults the above scenarios didn't happen. Over
the past 3 months, ds displayed a lot of what was perceived as "whining" and this was
inadvertently encouraged by rote patterns in the behaviors of the people around us.
Since ds served as the locus for acted out behavior, the "whining," he was seen as a
problem as opposed to being recognized as a child out of his depth and sinking as it
were under pressures he didn't know how to deal with. I was playing rescue some of
the time, and other times was branded as neglectful or expecting too much of the
older kids who were admittedly too burly and rough for ds. Anyway, we are not there
now. Ds is healing nicely from these ordeals and so am I. It is amazingly relaxing
around here. I am at a friend's house for a couple of weeks before we go back home.

Kathe