Julie W

I'm gonna ask this question here too:

I have a question for you all, but 1st a quick background.
We are Catholic. So either religious education happens in the parish
school setting or in religious education classes (Sunday School) for
kids not in attending a Catholic school. Josh (13) has had First
Communion and Confirmation so he's not on anyones radar (He would not go
anyway because of his whole reading issue) for needing to attend RE, but
I still think he needs to be catechized.
What's the problem?
Well in the last few years as we have slowly embraced a totally
unschooling life he has pretty much made it clear that he's not
interested in doing anything that has to do with religion or faith: no
rosary, no saint stories, no daily readings, no prayer time and he
really, really does not want to go to Mass. This means that for about
the last year I've pretty much stopped everything except Mass attendance
(and really that's because his father insists that he goes).
~gah~
I'm just in such a quandary. I want to pass on the deposit of Faith, but
I don't want to force the issue---it goes against everything I believe
about being radical unschoolers.
But I feel like he should know these things so he can make an informed
choice as he gets older.
Has anyone else felt this way? How have you worked it out?
--

Julie W

http://jwoolfolk.typepad.com/theothermother/


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<http://jwoolfolk.typepad.com/theothermother/>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nanci K.

> I still think he needs....> What's the problem?

That's the problem right there. Deciding what YOU think he needs,
rather than listening to him telling you clearly that it's not what
he needs right now, and is not what he wants right now.

>I want to pass on the deposit of Faith,

The best foundation you can give your children, in my opinion, when
it comes to faith or religion (not the same things) is to honestly
share with them (when they ask for it) your own beliefs and
principles and be an illustration of someone happy and fulfilled in
their faith in yourself. There is no way to guarantee that they
will share your faith as adults, (I wouldn't want to guarantee that
anyway even if I could) but the more you make it an issue the less
likely they are to want to share with you whatever their beliefs
might end up being. The best way, again in my opinion and
experience, to drive a child in the opposite direction of whatever
your beliefs are is to push your religion down their throats and be
negative, deragatory and dismissive of their thoughts and
explorations in areas that are not your faith.

Nanci K.

nellebelle

>>>>>>>>>But I feel like he should know these things so he can make an informed choice as he gets older.>>>>>>>>>>>

""Train up a child in the way he should go; and when he is old, he will not depart from it." (Pr22:6)"

Or will he?

I was born into a Catholic family (both parents raised Catholic) and baptised at a very young age. My parents divorced, and we lived with my mother who chose not to attend church. At around age 10, I started to attend a neighborhood church and was born again. I went to Bible camp for several summers and was a believer for a number of years. I never could convince anyone else in the family to attend with me.

I am now at least agnostic, if not athiest. At any rate, I do not believe in a "father" god. My younger brother, who did not attend church as a child (except very sporadically) is now an evangelical Christian, highly involved in his church and sending his child to a private Christian school.

My point is that everyone makes their own choice at one point or another. If you *live* your religious beliefs, that will be enough for your children to decide whether your way is their way, or not.

Mary Ellen

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Angela S.

I grew up Catholic and was made to go to mass and ccd each week. When I
turned 18, I never went back. Something to think about.

Angela
game-enthusiast@...

Paula Sjogerman

on 6/28/05 5:16 PM, Julie W at jjjwoolfolk@... wrote:

> But I feel like he should know these things so he can make an informed
> choice as he gets older.
> Has anyone else felt this way? How have you worked it out?
> --

You've probably already gotten some answers like this, but I'm too far
behind to check <g>:

My family is Jewish. My kids have always known that I think it's important
to know about your heritage, but they've had the choice about their own
lives. Zoe chose to attend religious school all along, become Bat Mitzvah,
the whole schmear. She'll even be confirmed and graduate next year. My son,
Quinn, went to three classes around 4th grade, the teacher was
condescending, he never went back. Every once and a while, he brings up the
idea of doing it again, but still has never chosen it.

Paula

J. Stauffer

<<<< I don't want to force the issue---it goes against everything I believe
> about being radical unschoolers.>>>>

I strongly believe that if you truly live your faith, your kids will pick up
at least the basics just by osmosis. It is no different than kids whose
parents are farmers know the basics of animal reproduction.

Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Julie W" <jjjwoolfolk@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 5:16 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Religous Education Question


> I'm gonna ask this question here too:
>
> I have a question for you all, but 1st a quick background.
> We are Catholic. So either religious education happens in the parish
> school setting or in religious education classes (Sunday School) for
> kids not in attending a Catholic school. Josh (13) has had First
> Communion and Confirmation so he's not on anyones radar (He would not go
> anyway because of his whole reading issue) for needing to attend RE, but
> I still think he needs to be catechized.
> What's the problem?
> Well in the last few years as we have slowly embraced a totally
> unschooling life he has pretty much made it clear that he's not
> interested in doing anything that has to do with religion or faith: no
> rosary, no saint stories, no daily readings, no prayer time and he
> really, really does not want to go to Mass. This means that for about
> the last year I've pretty much stopped everything except Mass attendance
> (and really that's because his father insists that he goes).
> ~gah~
> I'm just in such a quandary. I want to pass on the deposit of Faith, but
> I don't want to force the issue---it goes against everything I believe
> about being radical unschoolers.
> But I feel like he should know these things so he can make an informed
> choice as he gets older.
> Has anyone else felt this way? How have you worked it out?
> --
>
> Julie W
>
> http://jwoolfolk.typepad.com/theothermother/
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> <http://jwoolfolk.typepad.com/theothermother/>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Paula Lesso

> My point is that everyone makes their own choice at one point or
another. If you *live* your religious beliefs, that will be enough
for your children to decide whether your way is their way, or not.
>
> Mary Ellen

I agree. I was raised Roman Catholic with all the associated "rites of
passage," and as an adult I drifted mostly away from the church, and
once the guilt of doing that left me (Catholics are so good at guilt),
I stayed away from church altogether for a while.

For the past year and a half my husband, 5-yr-old son and I have
attended a Unitarian Universalist church. We feel that we are home.
Love it. Andy is signed up for their first-ever week-long Vacation RE
Camp in August, which will involve 3 hours each day of singing,
activities, guest speakers, art, blah blah. He made the choice to sign
up for it; I'll take him and hang out there, and he can participate as
he chooses. And if he changes his mind about going, he won't go.

This fall he'll be old enough to attend the RE classes on Sunday
mornings. I have a feeling he may prefer to stay in the playroom
instead. I am not going to force him to go to a class, and I will
offer to go with him if he wants to check it out.

Even if he doesn't attend any classes, our church regularly discusses
world religions and different belief systems and encourages tolerance
and respect. So he's picking up on that, and already getting a base of
information about different choices and directions.

We live our beliefs each day, and just by being around people at
church and talking with them and interacting with them, Andy is
exposed to them too. If he dispenses with any formality of church in
the future, it's the formality going, not the forming of what was and
is already inside him.

~Paula Lesso




--- In [email protected], "nellebelle" <nellebelle@c...>
wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>But I feel like he should know these things so he can make
an informed choice as he gets older.>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> ""Train up a child in the way he should go; and when he is old, he
will not depart from it." (Pr22:6)"
>
> Or will he?
>
> I was born into a Catholic family (both parents raised Catholic) and
baptised at a very young age. My parents divorced, and we lived with
my mother who chose not to attend church. At around age 10, I started
to attend a neighborhood church and was born again. I went to Bible
camp for several summers and was a believer for a number of years. I
never could convince anyone else in the family to attend with me.
>
> I am now at least agnostic, if not athiest. At any rate, I do not
believe in a "father" god. My younger brother, who did not attend
church as a child (except very sporadically) is now an evangelical
Christian, highly involved in his church and sending his child to a
private Christian school.
>
> My point is that everyone makes their own choice at one point or
another. If you *live* your religious beliefs, that will be enough
for your children to decide whether your way is their way, or not.
>
> Mary Ellen
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

arcarpenter2003

--- In [email protected], Julie W <jjjwoolfolk@s...> wrote:
==I don't want to force the issue---it goes against everything I believe
> about being radical unschoolers.
> But I feel like he should know these things so he can make an informed
> choice as he gets older.==

Church is certainly not the only place he can learn about "these
things" such as faith, spirituality and traditions. In fact, if he is
there against his will, church is not even close to the *best* place
to learn about these things.

My son doesn't choose to go to church right now, either. I really
can't blame him -- compared to our lives, even our small, welcoming
church and its friendly, Montessori-based Sunday School is pretty
restrictive. Sure, they have a "response time" free time after the
story, where they can play music or draw or play with the story
figures, but it's not like he could whip out his GameBoy or anything. <g>

So while he sits on the couch playing his GameBoy, we have some great
discussions. He asked me a few months ago where "everything" came
from, so we had a fabulous discussion about different theories and
beliefs on that. We've talked about stories about Jesus and Buddha
and, when my friend who is an interfaith minister was over, Rama and
some of the trickster spirits in Native American faiths, too.
Sometimes my sonis actively involved in these dialogues, and sometimes
he's just nearby, popping in with a question here and there.

From a few casual ideas of mine, he's created small but elaborate
little rituals to help himself dream peacefully at night. When he
does something kind and giving for someone else, it's because it is
his choice, and not a service project dictated to him by others.

I have no doubt that he is gaining the spiritual tools that he needs,
in the way and at the time that he needs them.

Even my MIL, one of the most religious people I know, did not force
her son (my husband) to attend church with her when he was an older
child and a teenager.

She and I agreed that if you force someone to go to church, they will
only learn to hate what is supposed to a place of love, joy, and
invitation.

Peace,
Amy