Nanci Kuykendall

>It will look like taking them places and giving them
>opportunities to experience things we think they
>might enjoy. (Give them opportunities to expand
>their interests.)

I think my topic/question got hijacked by a (ahem)
confused person, to put it nicely. A lot of it was
fascinating stuff regarding reading and learning,
mostly what came from other folks on the list, not
so...disturbed.

To get back on track for my own dilema, the above
quote (sorry I didn't get who said it) is where I am
having difficulty at this time. The question about
the library program was an outgrowth of what I now
realize is more an issue of finding things to do in
general. It's not so much availability or access, as
we can make that happen despite not living "in town"
as I'm sure others here who live in the country can
attest. The problem I am running into is lack of
interest from the kids. They both hate or are
adversely affected by crowds and busy/overstimulating
environments. More than 8 people makes them squirmily
uncomfortable, just because of personality/temperment
and other factors. We have not always lived out of
town, and they have been around malls, fairs, and
other public events/places plenty of times. They are
not uncomfortable due to lack of crowd experience,
they just don't like it very often or for very long.
They will make exceptions to spend an hour or two at a
fair for example, but then they are done and want to
go someplace quiet. They can handle anonymity in a
large crowd better than they handle a group of 10 or
30 as well.

Both my boys dislike class type settings, taking
"direction" and so forth. Even when we play board
games at home we usually toss the rules and make up
our own. They love fantasy play, athletic games but
not "sports" per se, making art, watching movies,
cooking, books, games, music, dance, puzzles, their
trampoline, water play, the beach, the park, camping
and other things. The trouble is that I have yet to
match up any of these things with any activities, or
to offer things that may expand their world/interests
in which they have shown the least bit of interest.

At this time the only thing they are interested in is
1-2 dates a week to get together and play with a
friend or two at home or elsewhere and a weekly
library trip. They are happy to stay home the rest of
the time, playing inside and outside with us and each
other. They don't see any neighbors as we are in the
middle of a forest and our driveway is nearly a mile
through the woods to a dead end private road. They
have said they want more friends, which I am trying to
facilitate, but it's hard to meet families when we're
home so much. They have hinted at wanting more stuff
to do but shown no interest in what's been offered.
I'm worried that I am not offering enough, or the
right things, or falling down on the job as a
homeschooling/unschooling parent and could use some
encouragement here.

Maybe my problem is that my kids just seem emotionally
young, compared to other kids (schooled kids?) Should
I just shut up and be happy that they are still so
young at heart and their needs are so uncomplicated?

Nanci K.

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/14/2005 4:39:09 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
aisliin@... writes:

-=-The trouble is that I have yet to
match up any of these things with any activities. . .-=-


Those things are in and of themselves activities.

-=- They love fantasy play, athletic games but
not "sports" per se, making art, watching movies,
cooking, books, games, music, dance, puzzles, their
trampoline, water play, the beach, the park, camping
and other things-=-

That's what activities look like!

Do you mean "organized group activities with a schedule and an end date"?
They don't like that stuff. (I don't either, much. Marty hates it.)

-=-, or to offer things that may expand their world/interests
in which they have shown the least bit of interest.-=-

These things expand their world and interests:

fantasy play, athletic games but
not "sports" per se, making art, watching movies,
cooking, books, games, music, dance, puzzles, their
trampoline, water play, the beach, the park, camping
and other things

-=-They are happy to stay home the rest of
the time, playing inside and outside with us and each
other. They don't see any neighbors as we are in the
middle of a forest and our driveway is nearly a mile
through the woods to a dead end private road.-=-

They're happy!!
Lots of those kids with the scheduled activities and near neighbors are very
UNhappy.
Your kids are happy.

-=-They have hinted at wanting more stuff
to do but shown no interest in what's been offered. -=-

Bring in more movies, food to cook, new music, more puzzles, new water play
equipment and different beaches.

-=-I'm worried that I am not offering enough, or the
right things, or falling down on the job as a
homeschooling/unschooling parent and could use some
encouragement here.-=-

_http://sandradodd.com/deschooling_ (http://sandradodd.com/deschooling)
lots of ideas there, and in links from there.
_http://sandradodd.com/strewing/_ (http://sandradodd.com/strewing/)

if the links don't work, clean junk off the ends until they do.

-=-Should
I just shut up-=-

no

-=- and be happy that they are still so
young at heart and their needs are so uncomplicated?-=-

yes
but be with them, not shut up
(Unless the noise you're talking about is pressuring them to want to be out
and do differently and wish for differences. If that's the noise, then I
take back my first "no.")

Sandra






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nanci K.

> Do you mean "organized group activities with a schedule and an
end date"? They don't like that stuff. (I don't either, much.
>Marty hates it.)


Not precisely. Hubby and I don't care for those much either and
it's likely our opinions are either genetically or environmentally
influencing the boys. I guess I mean activities outside of home,
where they can meet and interact with other kids and with adults who
are not us. Fun things for them to try and places to check out. I
am not trying to get rid of them or wanting to spend less time with
them, just concerned that they don't see much of others.

> These things expand their world and interests:

Yeah...I can hear that in their expanding questions and discussions
with us.


> They're happy!!
> Lots of those kids with the scheduled activities and near
neighbors are very
> UNhappy.
> Your kids are happy.

OK, deep breathing. I do know this, about overscheduled kids, and I
hear from friends who visit (kids *and* their parents) about how
lovely, quiet, fun, interesting, fill-in-the-positive-blank our
woods are compared to town. I should just make "They are Happy" my
mantra I guess, to remind me where to focus.

> Bring in more movies, food to cook, new music, more puzzles, new
water play equipment and different beaches.

Actually we do all of this regularly, but I didn't think of it as
expanding their horizons. We just got new art supplies, 6 new
puzzles, tried some new recipes, got some new music, and borrowed
some cool movies/shows from the library this week. I guess more of
the same is in order is what they are telling me.


> -=- and be happy that they are still so
> young at heart and their needs are so uncomplicated?-=-
> yes but be with them, not shut up (Unless the noise you're talking
about is pressuring them to want to be out and do differently and
wish for differences. If that's the noise, then I take back my
first "no.")
>
> Sandra

LOL No, I just do that in my own head and with my hubby, oh and
here of course, where it belongs. I don't burden the kids with my
baggage, or I try not to anyway. I gotta get off the computer now
though, because one of my boys just discovered a passion for
cartooning and wants me to write the dialogue for the comic book
he's making for his dad for Father's Day, and the other game loving
son is helping me design a roughly Clue based game for Daddy called
Pirate Treasure and I need to make cards and game pieces and stuff
with him now that we have basic game play worked out. Plus I have a
pile of books on bigfoot to read to a newly obsessed child and a
camping trip to plan somewhere closeby to "look for Bigfoot."

Thanks Sandra.

Nanci K.

Angela S.

Hi Nanci,
You wrote:


> At this time the only thing they are interested in is
> 1-2 dates a week to get together and play with a
> friend or two at home or elsewhere and a weekly
> library trip. They are happy to stay home the rest of
> the time, playing inside and outside with us and each
> other.

And you wrote:

They
> have said they want more friends, which I am trying to
> facilitate, but it's hard to meet families when we're
> home so much.

Your kids sound a lot like mine. Most of the time they are content to do
the at-home things we do all the time. For us, its board games, reading to
them, riding our horse and hanging out at the barn, swimming in the pool,
playing on the computer, watching TV, etc. But once in a while they seem a
bit restless and in need of more interaction with other kids.

In the past I have arranged play dates via a local home school list. I have
organized wiffle ball games and it worked out well because only a handful of
kids came and that was the perfect amount for us. Is there some interest
that they have that you can use to help them meet other kids with similar
interests? Or maybe ask if there are kids out there on a local homeschool
list of similar ages who might like to come jump on your trampoline or
something like that. It can be hard (outside my comfort level) to reach out
to others sometimes but I have always been glad that we made the effort when
we did, even if it didn't work out that we made a new friend each time. If
the kids seem to want to meet some new friends, I remind them that once upon
a time the friends they have now were strangers and if we hadn't made the
effort to get to know them, we would have missed out on a great friendship.

The most recent friends my kids have made are kids who ride at the barn we
board at. They are both public schooled kids but they all share an interest
in horses and that is what matters to the kids. We have the flexibility to
work around their school schedules and get together when it works for them.
And summer vacation starts this week so we should be able to see them more,
very soon.

For the last year or so my kids were content with having one close friend.
I sometimes felt like it would benefit them to make more friends and branch
out a little bit but that was my concern and not theirs. In their own time
they eventually found the need to branch out and make more friends. I am
wondering if the need for more friends is truly theirs or is it something
that you are feeling that they would benefit from?

> They will make exceptions to spend an hour or two at a
> fair for example, but then they are done and want to
> go someplace quiet. They can handle anonymity in a
> large crowd better than they handle a group of 10 or
> 30 as well.

My kids are also like that. They can handle a fair much better than a
birthday party with a dozen kids with expectations that they participate.

> Both my boys dislike class type settings, taking
> "direction" and so forth. Even when we play board
> games at home we usually toss the rules and make up
> our own.

That's awesome and creative.

They love fantasy play, athletic games but
> not "sports" per se, making art, watching movies,
> cooking, books, games, music, dance, puzzles, their
> trampoline, water play, the beach, the park, camping
> and other things.

Not everyone is cut out for organized sports but as long as they feel their
life is rich and rewarding, that's fine.

The trouble is that I have yet to
> match up any of these things with any activities, or
> to offer things that may expand their world/interests
> in which they have shown the least bit of interest.

But you don't need to do organized things. It might make you look like a
better homeschool mom to outsiders if your kids were involved in lots of
outside activities, but it isn't necessarily what will make your kids happy.

> I'm worried that I am not offering enough, or the
> right things, or falling down on the job as a
> homeschooling/unschooling parent and could use some
> encouragement here.

I would continue to offer things that you think might interest them and be
prepared to accept a "no" if that is how they feel. I felt the same way
myself for a long time and then I offered horse back riding lessons and that
was the beginning of a new found interest/love for all of us. It's been an
amazing ride.

> Maybe my problem is that my kids just seem emotionally
> young, compared to other kids (schooled kids?)

So do mine. Isn't it great that they can be at whatever emotional level
they are naturally without feeling the need to keep up with other kids their
age?

Should
> I just shut up and be happy that they are still so
> young at heart and their needs are so uncomplicated?

I think being happy that your kids are happy is a good idea. No need to
worry if they are happy and content.

Angela S.]
Game-enthusiast@...

Laura Moseley

My ds is 15 and only likes groups of 2 or 3, he gets it from his Nana. lol We have found 2 other guys his age and they bowl, have book discussions, play Magic, have LAN parties, talk on AIM, they went to a homeschool prom. This has worked out great and I think they may end up life long friends who can depend on each other and that is very important to have someone who you can talk to and lean on if need be. I never put him in a class situation that just does not work with him. He also likes to be with people who are older than he is. I think because he is not so into the "teenage" thing. He thinks its silly.

Also I have learned to listen to my ds and I don't mean just hear, I mean watch actions/expressions so on. I can tell about 90% of the time when he is not comfortable and does not want to be, go or stay somewhere and I try to respect that. It is hard because I am a control freak and I think things should be my way because that is best, I am learning to let that go.

I don't know if this helps, but I just thought I would through it in.

Laura


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robyn Coburn

<<<< I should just make "They are Happy" my
mantra I guess, to remind me where to focus.>>>>>

This was another post where I kept waiting for the problem to be revealed.
All I saw was that they are hoping for some more friends, but it didn't
sound like a scenario of desperate urgency. You are supporting your
children's needs and individual preferences, by your own description.

Life can be allowed to be simple and good and free of drama, without us
having to create a fear of impending doom or wondering if it is too good to
be true. Every ointment doesn't have to contain flies. Time to start
trusting yourself, as you seem to already be trusting your kids. :)

Robyn L. Coburn

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Nanci K.

> Your kids sound a lot like mine. Most of the time they are
>content to do the at-home things we do all the time. .....But once
>in a while they seem a bit restless and in need of more interaction
>with other kids.

Thanks for that. It's reassuring to know that there are other kids
and families for whom that kind of lifestyle works.

>It can be hard (outside my comfort level) to reach out to others
>sometimes but I have always been glad that we made the effort when
> we did, even if it didn't work out that we made a new friend each
>time.

We've not had good results from trying to meet people from our only
local homeschooling list, mainly because of lack of understanding,
patience or flexibility re: high functioning autism. It makes me
very leery of that list. I had thought about posting something on
the board at the county library as an option, and I have posted to a
local homeschooling register site with no results to speak of after
a couple of years. I just accidentally found out about a group of
unschoolers meeting on Fridays at the gym of the town community
center to play and we're going to try that group next. Hopefully
good things will come from that.

> I am wondering if the need for more friends is truly theirs or is
>it something that you are feeling that they would benefit from?

Good question. Well, Thomas (8.5) has specifically asked for more
friends recently. He just met a little girl last weekend (one of
the Friday group at the community center) who he instantly fell in
love with though, so he's excited about that. He keeps talking
about (sigh) Mahhd-ah-liine (the little girl, Madeline) in this sing
songey voice. He's always been a sucker for girls.

Alex (7) I am concerned is getting really quirky because his
(almost) only friend and playmate is his autistic brother Thomas.
He's picked up problem behaviors that we've been trying to help his
brother to overcome, as well as typically autistic self soothing
stims like rocking, humming and hand flapping. Alex also
specifically asks for breaks from his intense and often overbearing
brother. When we go on playdates he often uses the time when Thomas
is playing with another child to go off on his own or to visit with
the adults. I wonder if he would be more inclined to make friends
of his own, something he seems to have no interest in, if he didn't
feel such a pressing need to get a break from his brother. He plays
well with other children, but doesn't ask for them, seems to be able
to take or leave them when they are there although he's eager to go
to playdates when we ask him. In fact he is agreeable to any other
event or activity we ask him about but often doesn't like them after
he arrives. I am processing as I write, and thinking that maybe
what's really going on is that Alex doesn't know what he wants right
now and just says yes to everything so that he can try it out and
see how it feels. It's me that the uncertainty bothers. It will be
intresting to see where he settles in his interests and social
proclivities.

> But you don't need to do organized things. It might make you look
>like a better homeschool mom to outsiders if your kids were
>involved in lots of outside activities, but it isn't necessarily
>what will make your kids happy.

I'm not concerned with what others think or how I look to them.
Just ask my long suffering extended family (haha) :-P I am mainly
trying to help them meet other people and saw the organized
activities as possible venues for that. Even if we didn't stick
with them we might meet some cool people, Alex could maybe get a
break from Thomas and be involved in something that didn't concern
Thomas at all, which would be a relief to Alex I know, and Thomas
could meet more friends and take more focus away from his quietly
overwhelmed brother. I think I am going to need to look for other
avenues though.

> So do mine. Isn't it great that they can be at whatever emotional
>level they are naturally without feeling the need to keep up with
>other kids their age?

Yes! I love that they are free to be themselves and so confident.
They don't worry about what people think of them or about fitting in
with the crowd. They never express concern about being like or
unlike others. I didn't mean it was a problem for me when I
said "maybe the problem is" I meant maybe it was part of the
problem with finding things they would like to do or that suit
them.

Nanci K.

Nanci K.

> This was another post where I kept waiting for the problem to be
>revealed.
> All I saw was that they are hoping for some more friends, but it
>didn't sound like a scenario of desperate urgency.

Does it have to be a situation of desperate urgency to be worthy of
thinking about or discussing or asking questions about?

> Life can be allowed to be simple and good and free of drama,
>without us having to create a fear of impending doom or wondering
>if it is too good to be true.

I really don't think that is what I was doing at all. They've
expressed and I've "read" in them some needs that I feel I am
stumbling in meeting and I was asking for some suggestions and
encouragement. That's neither desperately and dramatically urgent,
nor is it manufactured drama, but it's important enough to us to be
worth spending time to solve.

Nanci K.

Robyn Coburn

<<<<<I really don't think that is what I was doing at all. They've
expressed and I've "read" in them some needs that I feel I am
stumbling in meeting and I was asking for some suggestions and
encouragement. That's neither desperately and dramatically urgent,
nor is it manufactured drama, but it's important enough to us to be
worth spending time to solve.>>>

I'm so very sorry Nanci, I sure didn't mean to minimize your concerns or
issues, although now I see that is how it came out.

Far from intending that, I was trying to offer some praise and encourage to
you to appreciate yourself for all the good things you are clearly already
doing. Thanks for the gentle redirection of thought.

I hope the new Unschooling group you found works out.

Robyn L. Coburn

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