carts before pizzas (was Summer reading program)
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/12/2005 9:57:48 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
ecsamhill@... writes:
If I had to sign up for a program, I think I'd prefer to reverse it and eat
a lot of pizza to get a free book. <g>
That makes sense.
And if you want to condition them not to like pizza, force them to finish it
ALL, crusts too, before they can get the book.
We went to a swimming party yesterday. Marty was the only of our kids and
he's already 16. The rest were nine or so down to two. One mom let hers
(he's the odlest of that batch) get in the water as soon as they got there. They
had just driving 60 miles from Santa Fe, and it was cool to see him just get
in right away. A couple of younger ones were forced to eat a hamburger and
finish their food before they could get in. One was made to keep sitting
until he ate potato chips. It was a little painful for me.
Marty, meanwhile, with the freedom to do whatever order he wanted, swam,
ate; sat, talked; swam, played with kids, ate again. He had a peaceful, happy
afternoon. He didn't get sunburned. He voluntarily spent several hours with
his parents (he knew most of the adults too) even though it was only the day
before that he'd gotten a new World of Warcraft game and online account. He
helped clean up when we were leaving, and when his dad said upon arrival
home, "I forgot my towel," Marty showed him that he had had it.
I consider it evidence that we're doing something right.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ecsamhill@... writes:
If I had to sign up for a program, I think I'd prefer to reverse it and eat
a lot of pizza to get a free book. <g>
That makes sense.
And if you want to condition them not to like pizza, force them to finish it
ALL, crusts too, before they can get the book.
We went to a swimming party yesterday. Marty was the only of our kids and
he's already 16. The rest were nine or so down to two. One mom let hers
(he's the odlest of that batch) get in the water as soon as they got there. They
had just driving 60 miles from Santa Fe, and it was cool to see him just get
in right away. A couple of younger ones were forced to eat a hamburger and
finish their food before they could get in. One was made to keep sitting
until he ate potato chips. It was a little painful for me.
Marty, meanwhile, with the freedom to do whatever order he wanted, swam,
ate; sat, talked; swam, played with kids, ate again. He had a peaceful, happy
afternoon. He didn't get sunburned. He voluntarily spent several hours with
his parents (he knew most of the adults too) even though it was only the day
before that he'd gotten a new World of Warcraft game and online account. He
helped clean up when we were leaving, and when his dad said upon arrival
home, "I forgot my towel," Marty showed him that he had had it.
I consider it evidence that we're doing something right.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Paula Sjogerman
on 6/12/05 11:35 AM, SandraDodd@... at SandraDodd@... wrote:
Shadowwing.
Paula
> he'd gotten a new World of Warcraft game and online accountWhat's his screen name? Quinn's been playing since January, his name is
Shadowwing.
Paula
Elizabeth Hill
**I bet that was the original meaning of "spoiled" as regards children.
Nowadays it means that the kid wants too much. But in terms of
"training," if a kid has too much stuff you can't bribe and threaten, so
you've spoiled the ability to control his behavior with the promise of
food, privilege or material goods.**
Ah! This is a new thought for me. Cool!
**Honestly, a lot of the "truths" of conditioning and training and learning
come from lab-rat "proofs." I hadn't thought of that for years and years. We
"proved" things with really hungry rats and people applied the principles to
human children who didn't live in cages.
All that operant conditioning is out of style now in psych studies. I think
the effects remain in schools.**
Yes! A lot of "educational" practices rest on some shaky and OLD research. Alfie Kohn (in Punished by Rewards) disses B. F. Skinner pretty strongly. Most unschooling parents will enjoy his point of view, I think. (He seems to let go of conventional thinking about learning and talk almost only from observations about learning taking place. I think he's cool.)
I have been known to try to win arguments on education methodology by saying "Kids are smarter than lab rats" when someone suggests that kids should be trained with rat pellet methods. Maybe a few steps back in the conversation I would have tried to say "These theories were tested on pigeons and lab rats..." (Those quotes make more sense in the reverse order, sorry.)
Betsy
Nowadays it means that the kid wants too much. But in terms of
"training," if a kid has too much stuff you can't bribe and threaten, so
you've spoiled the ability to control his behavior with the promise of
food, privilege or material goods.**
Ah! This is a new thought for me. Cool!
**Honestly, a lot of the "truths" of conditioning and training and learning
come from lab-rat "proofs." I hadn't thought of that for years and years. We
"proved" things with really hungry rats and people applied the principles to
human children who didn't live in cages.
All that operant conditioning is out of style now in psych studies. I think
the effects remain in schools.**
Yes! A lot of "educational" practices rest on some shaky and OLD research. Alfie Kohn (in Punished by Rewards) disses B. F. Skinner pretty strongly. Most unschooling parents will enjoy his point of view, I think. (He seems to let go of conventional thinking about learning and talk almost only from observations about learning taking place. I think he's cool.)
I have been known to try to win arguments on education methodology by saying "Kids are smarter than lab rats" when someone suggests that kids should be trained with rat pellet methods. Maybe a few steps back in the conversation I would have tried to say "These theories were tested on pigeons and lab rats..." (Those quotes make more sense in the reverse order, sorry.)
Betsy
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/13/05 12:40:48 PM, sjogy@... writes:
<< he'd gotten a new World of Warcraft game and online account >>
airportninja, I think
<< he'd gotten a new World of Warcraft game and online account >>
airportninja, I think