k johnson

Hi,

I don't post often, a major understatement, I know, however, I have a little story to share. Me and my 3 kids went to the Smithsonian-Natural HIstory Museum the other day, and I must say that I was a bit distracted by many of the parents...maybe I was just tuned into that side of it after the first jolt! The first one that struck me, was a woman with a few 4-5 year olds...we were by the dinosaur femurs, and she snapped her fingers at them and said "He-LLoooow! Look at the bones! They aren't dog bones!"...wow, my kids stopped short (we all did), and kind of were shocked into staring, for a moment or two...more than that for my 8yo! He told his dad about it when we got home. And then throughout the course of the time we were there, there were so many adults "pushing" education onto the kids. Like one man, telling the 2 boys that he was with, upon coming up to an exhibit..."tell me what kind of lesson you see here". And a group of people...2-3 adults, and 6-7 kids..."now how do
these insects see...right...with their antenaes!" Which I heard from this group 2 more times, the same sentences...drilling in what the adults think the kids ought to get out of it. I'm happy that we went along, stopping where we wanted to, not where we didn't...all of us making that choice. Too bad we didn't have longer! We talked about getting locked in at night, and how cool that would be!

Katy



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Rodney and Rebecca Atherton

>Too bad we didn't have longer! We talked about getting >locked in at
night, and how cool that would be!



I was thinking about your observations and wondering if maybe that is why
"museum" always brought a negative feeling in me! If children are left
alone to find the things that THEY think are interesting and have value to
THEM, "museum" will be exciting and an adventure instead of torture.



You don't have to point out the learning from objects in a museum, that's
why they are there! You wouldn't want to distract your child as they
explore or admire some strange object! Something for me to think about as I
feel that teacher in me bubble up when there's an audience.. (Does that
happen to anyone else?)



Thanks for sharing that.



<http://www.geocities.com/rebeccawow.geo> Rebecca

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HomeschoolVictoria/> Homeschool Victoria-
discussion group for anyone educating, homeschooling, or interested in
home-education in and around Victoria, Texas. You don't need to be
affiliated with any local support group to join. All you need is to be
curious and excited about the learning process!





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Gold Standard

>>drilling in what the adults think the kids ought to get out of it.<<

When I went to the zoo with my children when they were very young I read
loudly the signs that were posted at each animal. I'd often finish the
reading standing by myself. It didn't take me too long to figure out those
awesome signs were there for ME! I got to read and enjoy them without
worrying about whether my kids were "getting the lesson"! Wow, what an
epiphany that was! :OP

When we go to museums or zoos now, my kids are often interested in the
written material of the parts they are interested in. I don't think I
negatively impacted their ability to appreciate written factual knowledge,
thank god! Guess I figured it out early enough!

Jacki
Andrew 16
Max 15
Hannah 13
Cameron 11

Nancy Wooton

On May 27, 2005, at 3:47 AM, k johnson wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I don't post often, a major understatement, I know, however, I have a
> little story to share.  Me and my 3 kids went to the
> Smithsonian-Natural HIstory Museum the other day, and I must say that
> I was a bit distracted by many of the parents...maybe I was just tuned
> into that side of it after the first jolt!  The first one that struck
> me, was a woman with a few 4-5 year olds...we were by the dinosaur
> femurs, and she snapped her fingers at them and said "He-LLoooow! Look
> at the bones!  They aren't dog bones!"...wow, my kids stopped short
> (we all did), and kind of were shocked into staring, for a moment or
> two...more than that for my 8yo!  He told his dad about it when we got
> home.  And then throughout the course of the time we were there, there
> were so many adults "pushing" education onto the kids.  Like one man,
> telling the 2  boys that he was with, upon coming up to an
> exhibit..."tell me what kind of lesson you see here".  And a group of
> people...2-3 adults, and 6-7 kids..."now how do
> these insects see...right...with their antenaes!" 

LOL! I could just imagine my kids overhearing this and having no
compunction at all about correcting the adults. (And I can imagine a
bright child wondering to herself why the insects have eyes if they see
with their antennae...)

> Which I heard from this group 2 more times, the same
> sentences...drilling in what the adults think the kids ought to get
> out of it.

During one of our many trips to the Zoo, we overheard a dad tell his
kid the tapir was a hippo. I wonder what he said the hippo was when
they got to it further along the path? I also wonder why so many
adults can't just say "I don't know -- let's find out!"

>   I'm happy that we went along, stopping where we wanted to, not where
> we didn't...all of us making that choice.  Too bad we didn't have
> longer!  We talked about getting locked in at night, and how cool that
> would be!
>

Some of the museums in San Diego have slumber parties :-)
Nancy

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[email protected]

In a message dated 5/27/2005 7:38:52 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
rebeccawow@... writes:

I was thinking about your observations and wondering if maybe that is why
"museum" always brought a negative feeling in me! If children are left
alone to find the things that THEY think are interesting and have value to
THEM, "museum" will be exciting and an adventure instead of torture.


=================

Isn't that true of
movies
books
public parks
basements and attics
chores
food
beds and bedtimes

Most people can't imagine a kid planning to go to bed, WANTING to go to bed,
arranging things just so and going to sleep happy every night.

When parents/adults manage a child's life to the point of telling them what
to look at, what to think, what and when to eat, and to sleep when they're not
sleepy, a lot of things happen and none of them lead to peace, joy, personal
awareness and natural learning.

Sandra



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

This just reminded me... is this the list that was talking about Comanche, the horse who was the only survivor on the white man-side at the Battle of Little Bighorn? Rain and I saw him today, and I thought of the discussion on whatever list that was. He's in Lawrence, Kansas now, partially wrapped in padding and on a wooden frame, in a little room with a dehudifier (I think) going. His neck and head were visible, though, and his back. He's in the process of being moved to a new exhibit at the University of Kansas Natural History Museum, where he has apparently been for many (over 100?) years.

We also saw the Panorama of North American Mammals, originally displayed at the 1883 World's Fair. Yes, it's a display of mounted and stuffed dead animals (along with a nice discussion of taxidermy), but it seems more acceptable since it's been around so long. There were other displays at the museum, of dinosaur bones and some live fish and snakes, too. We spent a couple of hours there, Rain and I, and then we went for coffee and hung out in downtown Lawrence, which is as close to California as one gets in Kansas...

There was another family at the museum with 4 boys, who were carrying a paper to fill out based on the exhibits (we just had a map) and who were dashing top-speed through the halls and chasing each other whenever we saw them. I don't think they really wanted to be there, but we enjoyed it a lot.

Dar


In a message dated 5/27/2005 7:38:52 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
rebeccawow@... writes:

I was thinking about your observations and wondering if maybe that is why
"museum" always brought a negative feeling in me! If children are left
alone to find the things that THEY think are interesting and have value to
THEM, "museum" will be exciting and an adventure instead of torture.

MomtoLJ

When we were in New York at the Natural History Museum, there were
school children there, even though it was a Saturday. They were filling
out long, multi-page question/answer stuff. It was kinda sad. They
were reading all the displays just to find the answer to their questions
on their sheet Janene and Lexie and I were having a blast, comparing the
various prehistoric men to our various relatives, there was one part
where they were showing up close anatomy, and the girls were very
interested in the uterus and ovaries and how the sperm gets out of the
body and some nearby folks got a bit of an education.

We were lucky enough to be let into the natural history museum in Denver
early, very early, at 4am, and that was very cool. And we also got
into the Rock hall of fame early too. I think those were the best parts
of the trip, the museums. That and the Guggenheim museum. I didn't
like all the abstract art, but Lexie sure did. The building was very
very cool.

Joylyn

freeform@... wrote:

>
> This just reminded me... is this the list that was talking about
> Comanche, the horse who was the only survivor on the white man-side at
> the Battle of Little Bighorn? Rain and I saw him today, and I thought
> of the discussion on whatever list that was. He's in Lawrence, Kansas
> now, partially wrapped in padding and on a wooden frame, in a little
> room with a dehudifier (I think) going. His neck and head were
> visible, though, and his back. He's in the process of being moved to a
> new exhibit at the University of Kansas Natural History Museum, where
> he has apparently been for many (over 100?) years.
>
> We also saw the Panorama of North American Mammals, originally
> displayed at the 1883 World's Fair. Yes, it's a display of mounted and
> stuffed dead animals (along with a nice discussion of taxidermy), but
> it seems more acceptable since it's been around so long. There were
> other displays at the museum, of dinosaur bones and some live fish and
> snakes, too. We spent a couple of hours there, Rain and I, and then we
> went for coffee and hung out in downtown Lawrence, which is as close
> to California as one gets in Kansas...
>
> There was another family at the museum with 4 boys, who were carrying
> a paper to fill out based on the exhibits (we just had a map) and who
> were dashing top-speed through the halls and chasing each other
> whenever we saw them. I don't think they really wanted to be there,
> but we enjoyed it a lot.
>
> Dar
>
>
> In a message dated 5/27/2005 7:38:52 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
> rebeccawow@... writes:
>
> I was thinking about your observations and wondering if maybe that
> is why
> "museum" always brought a negative feeling in me! If children are left
> alone to find the things that THEY think are interesting and have
> value to
> THEM, "museum" will be exciting and an adventure instead of torture.
>
>
>
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[email protected]

In a message dated 5/29/2005 12:51:18 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
joylyn1@... writes:

We were lucky enough to be let into the natural history museum in Denver
early, very early, at 4am, and that was very cool.


=================================

I couldn't help but have two dozen zinging excited thoughts about that, but
two big ones:

Can you imagine the craziness if a group of schoolkids (as a group, not the
possibly-wonderful individuals) were let into a public place after (or before)
hours?


And then I thought no, schoolkids are not up at 4:00 a.m., and if they were
someone would say they should NOT be up then, because they haven't slept eight
hours, and without eight hours sleep a night (every night, even in summer
and on weekends) they won't be "on schedule" to be alert for school. Anyone
who has taken health education at school and gotten A's, as I have, could
recite that truth and would of course live by it, just as with brushing teeth up
and down. NO WAIT... two years later they said only down on the top, and only
up on the bottom, or else you would shove food under your gums. OH HOLD
ON! Three years later they said do it circularly so you can get the food out
from under your gums. So do exactly what they told you in school and you'll
be healthy, and being at a museum at 4:00 a.m. is NOT healthy because it's
just not right. And there is one right answer, and that is... whatever they
said in school yesterday.

Until further notice.

Doesn't school specialize in removing people's will to think, and in
neutralizing any confidence or new ideas they might've been about to vocalize?

I'm glad I went to school because I had a good time and didn't have the
greatest home environment (not enough books, my first early-life book-worshiping
thought), and because now I know deeply what my kids aren't missing. <g>

Sandra


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Gwen McCrea

<<We talked about getting locked in at night, and how cool
that would be!>>

Confessions of a bibliophile: When I read this sentence, I thought of
a book I loved as a child, about two children who run away to live in
the Metropolitan Museum of Art. I had many daydreams about living in a
museum, sleeping on Marie Antoinette's bed, and bathing in water
fountains! The book was "From the Mixed-Up Files of Mrs. Basil E.
Frankweiler"

The Science Museum in St. Paul occasionally has slumber parties, now I
think I'll have to find out when, 'cause my young scientist would
probably get a kick out of sleeping with the dinosaurs.

Gwen