interesting development ....
Pam Sorooshian
Just a week or so ago, I wrote this on my state list - it is NOT an
unschooling list, just a general list for all homeschoolers:
came out in the state organization magazine - this same mom I was
writing about, above, showed it to her 12 yo son - and they got all
excited and started listing (right there in the margins of the
magazine) all the fun things they'd like to do if they weren't spending
their time on the curriculum materials. They had a long list and they
decided that they're going to give up the curriculum and start
unschooling, instead, just because the curriculum is preventing them
from getting around to doing other things. She brought the magazine to
our park day yesterday and showed it to me - with all their notes
scribbled in it. This is such an interesting thing - her older son goes
to school this year - 9th grade. His choice to go to a special math and
science high school for gifted kids - he wants to go to the air force
academy, I think. He's very involved in Civil Air Patrol and already
flies gliders. So he has moved toward a more intense structured
demanding school life - while his little brother is becoming an
unschooler.
Just thought it was interesting - and gratifying that an article could
really make such a difference in a kid's life. Our park day group is
pretty much made up of unschoolers and a few relaxed homeschoolers.
This is one of the founding families - even though they've never been
close to being unschoolers, they have always hung out with unschoolers.
So, interesting to me that they've decided to do it after many many
years of them doing curriculum while the rest of us unschooled.
-pam
unschooling list, just a general list for all homeschoolers:
> But, I would also say that I don't think that is what unschooling is -Well - at about the same time, my article (I Live Therefore I Learn)
> having a relaxed attitude about "schooling." A "relaxed attitude about
> schooling" could be someone who does schooling at home, but is relaxed
> about it. I have a friend whose kids do Calvert Curriculum. They love
> it. I'm glad - it is right for them. They're very relaxed about it.
> They do their lessons when they have time - they're okay with skipping
> days, doing extra on other days. They gloss over stuff that doesn't
> seem interesting to them and spend extra time on material they're
> enjoying. They do the assignments that appeal to them and ignore those
> that seem unnecessary. They're not stressed out over it, the kids enjoy
> the time their mom spends working on their curriculum with them, the
> mom grades their papers and kindly and gently helps them understand new
> material and on and on. It is all very "relaxed." But it is very very
> far from unschooling.
>
> Unschooling isn't being relaxed toward schooling, it is NOT schooling.
came out in the state organization magazine - this same mom I was
writing about, above, showed it to her 12 yo son - and they got all
excited and started listing (right there in the margins of the
magazine) all the fun things they'd like to do if they weren't spending
their time on the curriculum materials. They had a long list and they
decided that they're going to give up the curriculum and start
unschooling, instead, just because the curriculum is preventing them
from getting around to doing other things. She brought the magazine to
our park day yesterday and showed it to me - with all their notes
scribbled in it. This is such an interesting thing - her older son goes
to school this year - 9th grade. His choice to go to a special math and
science high school for gifted kids - he wants to go to the air force
academy, I think. He's very involved in Civil Air Patrol and already
flies gliders. So he has moved toward a more intense structured
demanding school life - while his little brother is becoming an
unschooler.
Just thought it was interesting - and gratifying that an article could
really make such a difference in a kid's life. Our park day group is
pretty much made up of unschoolers and a few relaxed homeschoolers.
This is one of the founding families - even though they've never been
close to being unschoolers, they have always hung out with unschoolers.
So, interesting to me that they've decided to do it after many many
years of them doing curriculum while the rest of us unschooled.
-pam
Sunday Cote
Enjoyed your post, Pam.
I'm new to the list, and I'd love to read your article, "I Live
Therefore I Learn." Is there a link to that or can you send it to me?
Thanks,
Sunday
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pam Sorooshian
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 8:27 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] interesting development ....
Just a week or so ago, I wrote this on my state list - it is NOT an
unschooling list, just a general list for all homeschoolers:
came out in the state organization magazine - this same mom I was
writing about, above, showed it to her 12 yo son - and they got all
excited and started listing (right there in the margins of the
magazine) all the fun things they'd like to do if they weren't spending
their time on the curriculum materials. They had a long list and they
decided that they're going to give up the curriculum and start
unschooling, instead, just because the curriculum is preventing them
from getting around to doing other things. She brought the magazine to
our park day yesterday and showed it to me - with all their notes
scribbled in it. This is such an interesting thing - her older son goes
to school this year - 9th grade. His choice to go to a special math and
science high school for gifted kids - he wants to go to the air force
academy, I think. He's very involved in Civil Air Patrol and already
flies gliders. So he has moved toward a more intense structured
demanding school life - while his little brother is becoming an
unschooler.
Just thought it was interesting - and gratifying that an article could
really make such a difference in a kid's life. Our park day group is
pretty much made up of unschoolers and a few relaxed homeschoolers.
This is one of the founding families - even though they've never been
close to being unschoolers, they have always hung out with unschoolers.
So, interesting to me that they've decided to do it after many many
years of them doing curriculum while the rest of us unschooled.
-pam
_____
Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>
* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm new to the list, and I'd love to read your article, "I Live
Therefore I Learn." Is there a link to that or can you send it to me?
Thanks,
Sunday
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pam Sorooshian
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 8:27 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] interesting development ....
Just a week or so ago, I wrote this on my state list - it is NOT an
unschooling list, just a general list for all homeschoolers:
> But, I would also say that I don't think that is what unschooling is-
> having a relaxed attitude about "schooling." A "relaxed attitude aboutenjoy
> schooling" could be someone who does schooling at home, but is relaxed
> about it. I have a friend whose kids do Calvert Curriculum. They love
> it. I'm glad - it is right for them. They're very relaxed about it.
> They do their lessons when they have time - they're okay with skipping
> days, doing extra on other days. They gloss over stuff that doesn't
> seem interesting to them and spend extra time on material they're
> enjoying. They do the assignments that appeal to them and ignore those
> that seem unnecessary. They're not stressed out over it, the kids
> the time their mom spends working on their curriculum with them, thenew
> mom grades their papers and kindly and gently helps them understand
> material and on and on. It is all very "relaxed." But it is very veryWell - at about the same time, my article (I Live Therefore I Learn)
> far from unschooling.
>
> Unschooling isn't being relaxed toward schooling, it is NOT schooling.
came out in the state organization magazine - this same mom I was
writing about, above, showed it to her 12 yo son - and they got all
excited and started listing (right there in the margins of the
magazine) all the fun things they'd like to do if they weren't spending
their time on the curriculum materials. They had a long list and they
decided that they're going to give up the curriculum and start
unschooling, instead, just because the curriculum is preventing them
from getting around to doing other things. She brought the magazine to
our park day yesterday and showed it to me - with all their notes
scribbled in it. This is such an interesting thing - her older son goes
to school this year - 9th grade. His choice to go to a special math and
science high school for gifted kids - he wants to go to the air force
academy, I think. He's very involved in Civil Air Patrol and already
flies gliders. So he has moved toward a more intense structured
demanding school life - while his little brother is becoming an
unschooler.
Just thought it was interesting - and gratifying that an article could
really make such a difference in a kid's life. Our park day group is
pretty much made up of unschoolers and a few relaxed homeschoolers.
This is one of the founding families - even though they've never been
close to being unschoolers, they have always hung out with unschoolers.
So, interesting to me that they've decided to do it after many many
years of them doing curriculum while the rest of us unschooled.
-pam
_____
Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>
* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
<http://sandradodd.com/pam/ilive>
If you haven't yet browsed Sandra's website - oh WHAT a treat you have
in store for yourself!!!
-pam
If you haven't yet browsed Sandra's website - oh WHAT a treat you have
in store for yourself!!!
-pam
On Apr 21, 2005, at 8:40 AM, Sunday Cote wrote:
> I'm new to the list, and I'd love to read your article, "I Live
> Therefore I Learn." Is there a link to that or can you send it to me?
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/21/2005 10:57:42 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
sundaycote@... writes:
I'm new to the list, and I'd love to read your article, "I Live
Therefore I Learn." Is there a link to that or can you send it to me?
--------------------
_http://sandradodd.com/pam/ilive_ (http://sandradodd.com/pam/ilive)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sundaycote@... writes:
I'm new to the list, and I'd love to read your article, "I Live
Therefore I Learn." Is there a link to that or can you send it to me?
--------------------
_http://sandradodd.com/pam/ilive_ (http://sandradodd.com/pam/ilive)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cindy Fox
Excellent! :)
Just read your article. New to the list. Always learning. :) One
thing I was thinking when I read about your point that unschoolers
will have gaps in their education is so do schooled children. No one
knows everything! :) Of course.
I guess I just can't figure out how schools determine what should be
taught. Having been schooled myself, I am having so much fun
unschooling my child as best I can since I get to share my interests
and share his and I am learning things I don't know every day as well!
How fun! :) Sometimes I think I get the better end of the deal! :)
Take care, c.
--- In [email protected], Pam Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@e...> wrote:
Just read your article. New to the list. Always learning. :) One
thing I was thinking when I read about your point that unschoolers
will have gaps in their education is so do schooled children. No one
knows everything! :) Of course.
I guess I just can't figure out how schools determine what should be
taught. Having been schooled myself, I am having so much fun
unschooling my child as best I can since I get to share my interests
and share his and I am learning things I don't know every day as well!
How fun! :) Sometimes I think I get the better end of the deal! :)
Take care, c.
--- In [email protected], Pam Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@e...> wrote:
> <http://sandradodd.com/pam/ilive>have
>
> If you haven't yet browsed Sandra's website - oh WHAT a treat you
> in store for yourself!!!me?
>
> -pam
>
> On Apr 21, 2005, at 8:40 AM, Sunday Cote wrote:
>
> > I'm new to the list, and I'd love to read your article, "I Live
> > Therefore I Learn." Is there a link to that or can you send it to
Diane Bentzen
> I guess I just can't figure out how schools"Schools" aren't really as monolithic as they seem.
> determine what should be taught.
Different schools choose different ways. And within
one school, different teachers choose different ways.
My parents were both teachers (now retired).
My mom ran a grade school resource room (special ed
pullout program) and taught a lot of Colonial American
and English history because that's what she's
interested in. She did spelling or reading or writing
or whatever the kids were supposed to be working on
within that framework. She said her school taught far
too much Hispanic history (local interest) and she
felt the need to balance that.
My dad taught high school history/civics type subjects
using standard (district-wide, I suppose) textbooks.
He required a weekly current events quiz in all his
classes, unlike his peers teaching the same course,
and taught history up to the present moment, unlike
most of his peers who quit at or before Vietnam.
I think we all know from our own school careers how
different one teacher's class is from another. 3/4 of
the way through sixth grade I transferred to a new
school. Almost immediately, they did testing to
determine placement for junior high math. I was both
gifted and interested in math, but hadn't covered some
of the stuff on the test and was placed in average
math. I never recovered. While I fought the placement
and eventually got bumped up one level, I never got
onto the track to have calculus in high school. It's a
sore spot.
Anyway, there's no one set of things taught throughout
"public schools." It varies hugely.
:-) Diane
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Gold Standard
>>Anyway, there's no one set of things taught throughoutToo bad it doesn't vary depending on the students in the classroom and what
>>"public schools." It varies hugely.<<
THEY'D like to learn/do.
Jacki
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/24/2005 11:12:26 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
jacki@... writes:
Some states and districts are trying very hard to do away with that little
glitch in the system. <g>
-=-Too bad it doesn't vary depending on the students in the classroom and
what
THEY'D like to learn/do.-=-
Well some people tried that in the 70's. <g> It was called "the open
classroom" and it didn't work for them, but it can work for us!
Here's a recent article about it (a quote and a link follow):
-=-
In both Britain and the United States, open classrooms contained no
whole-class lessons, no standardized tests, and no detailed curriculum. The best of
the open classrooms had planned settings where children came in contact with
things, books, and one another at “interest centers” and learned at their own
pace with the help of the teacher. Teachers structured the classroom and
activities for individual students and small work groups. They helped students
negotiate each of the reading, math, science, art, and other interest centers
on the principle that children learn best when they are interested and see
the importance of what they are doing.-=-
_http://www.educationnext.org/20042/68.html_
(http://www.educationnext.org/20042/68.html)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jacki@... writes:
>>Anyway, there's no one set of things taught throughout========
>>"public schools." It varies hugely.<<
Some states and districts are trying very hard to do away with that little
glitch in the system. <g>
-=-Too bad it doesn't vary depending on the students in the classroom and
what
THEY'D like to learn/do.-=-
Well some people tried that in the 70's. <g> It was called "the open
classroom" and it didn't work for them, but it can work for us!
Here's a recent article about it (a quote and a link follow):
-=-
In both Britain and the United States, open classrooms contained no
whole-class lessons, no standardized tests, and no detailed curriculum. The best of
the open classrooms had planned settings where children came in contact with
things, books, and one another at “interest centers” and learned at their own
pace with the help of the teacher. Teachers structured the classroom and
activities for individual students and small work groups. They helped students
negotiate each of the reading, math, science, art, and other interest centers
on the principle that children learn best when they are interested and see
the importance of what they are doing.-=-
_http://www.educationnext.org/20042/68.html_
(http://www.educationnext.org/20042/68.html)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Gold Standard <jacki@...>
what
THEY'D like to learn/do.
-=-=-=-=-=-
LOL!
But then it wouldn't BE school! <g>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
October 6-9, 2005
http://liveandlearnconference.org
From: Gold Standard <jacki@...>
>>Anyway, there's no one set of things taught throughoutToo bad it doesn't vary depending on the students in the classroom and
>>"public schools." It varies hugely.<<
what
THEY'D like to learn/do.
-=-=-=-=-=-
LOL!
But then it wouldn't BE school! <g>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
October 6-9, 2005
http://liveandlearnconference.org
[email protected]
When I was in public school, I spent one day a week in a pull-out "gifted" classroom, and we pretty much did get to do whatever we wanted to, within the confines of the school, anyway. As a fifth grader I did a year-long project about death, for example... I wrote a novel about how a family deals with a death, I read Elisabeth Kubler-Ross' books about death and dying, and other books about death in other cultures. It was fascinating. The best part was that I never finished the novel or came up with any sort of final "showcase" for what I'd learned, and it was okay. The next year I did a fairly long study of ESP...
The message in gifted ed, during the seventies, anyway, was that because we were so brilliant, we would be interested in things besides schoolwork, and so they were giving us an opportunity to follow those pasions. The false assumption, of course, was that "regular" children didn't have thse kinds of interests and passions...
Later, when I taught kids with ED/BD labels, I also got to "teach" pretty much what the kids were interested in. With my kids, the school mostly cared that they were engaged in doing *something* other than punching people, so we had the freedom to do a whole unit on boogers and butts, including pattern block patterns of anuses in action. I am not actually sure that the powers that be knew what we were doing all of the time, however...
I guess my point is that the there tends to be a lot more freedom and leniency on the "fringes", rather than in the mainstream. I see the same thought process in people who think unschooling is fine for children who are "different", but not for "regular" kids. There's an assumption that if the system appears to be "working" for kids - they're not getting into trouble, their grades are good but not exceptional - then it's wrong to do anything else.
Dar
-- "Gold Standard" <jacki@...> wrote:
THEY'D like to learn/do.
Jacki
Yahoo! Groups Links
The message in gifted ed, during the seventies, anyway, was that because we were so brilliant, we would be interested in things besides schoolwork, and so they were giving us an opportunity to follow those pasions. The false assumption, of course, was that "regular" children didn't have thse kinds of interests and passions...
Later, when I taught kids with ED/BD labels, I also got to "teach" pretty much what the kids were interested in. With my kids, the school mostly cared that they were engaged in doing *something* other than punching people, so we had the freedom to do a whole unit on boogers and butts, including pattern block patterns of anuses in action. I am not actually sure that the powers that be knew what we were doing all of the time, however...
I guess my point is that the there tends to be a lot more freedom and leniency on the "fringes", rather than in the mainstream. I see the same thought process in people who think unschooling is fine for children who are "different", but not for "regular" kids. There's an assumption that if the system appears to be "working" for kids - they're not getting into trouble, their grades are good but not exceptional - then it's wrong to do anything else.
Dar
-- "Gold Standard" <jacki@...> wrote:
>>Anyway, there's no one set of things taught throughoutToo bad it doesn't vary depending on the students in the classroom and what
>>"public schools." It varies hugely.<<
THEY'D like to learn/do.
Jacki
Yahoo! Groups Links
Gold Standard
I taught in an open classroom setting, only it was an alternative private school (started in the 70's, heehee) and they were going strong right up until this year. They are closing in June, and I understand that they changed their open concept to more structured learning due to pressure from parents. The only parents who could afford the tuition typically were "highly educated" profs from the local university and other professionals in the area who wanted the small private school setting but also wanted state standards met and formulaic curriculum. Being that it was a small town, there were no other choices. So they systematically forced the change at the only private school they had, through the parent-run board. Now it's closing. I'm sure it lost its life and passion as soon as the kids lost the control.
In any case, open classroom settings, or open school settings like Sudbury Valley School in Massachusetts can offer an unschooling setting within a community, I think.
Jacki
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of SandraDodd@...
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 10:19 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] interesting development ....
In a message dated 4/24/2005 11:12:26 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
jacki@... writes:
Some states and districts are trying very hard to do away with that little
glitch in the system. <g>
-=-Too bad it doesn't vary depending on the students in the classroom and
what
THEY'D like to learn/do.-=-
Well some people tried that in the 70's. <g> It was called "the open
classroom" and it didn't work for them, but it can work for us!
Here's a recent article about it (a quote and a link follow):
-=-
In both Britain and the United States, open classrooms contained no
whole-class lessons, no standardized tests, and no detailed curriculum. The best of
the open classrooms had planned settings where children came in contact with
things, books, and one another at “interest centers” and learned at their own
pace with the help of the teacher. Teachers structured the classroom and
activities for individual students and small work groups. They helped students
negotiate each of the reading, math, science, art, and other interest centers
on the principle that children learn best when they are interested and see
the importance of what they are doing.-=-
_http://www.educationnext.org/20042/68.html_
(http://www.educationnext.org/20042/68.html)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Links
In any case, open classroom settings, or open school settings like Sudbury Valley School in Massachusetts can offer an unschooling setting within a community, I think.
Jacki
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of SandraDodd@...
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 10:19 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] interesting development ....
In a message dated 4/24/2005 11:12:26 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
jacki@... writes:
>>Anyway, there's no one set of things taught throughout========
>>"public schools." It varies hugely.<<
Some states and districts are trying very hard to do away with that little
glitch in the system. <g>
-=-Too bad it doesn't vary depending on the students in the classroom and
what
THEY'D like to learn/do.-=-
Well some people tried that in the 70's. <g> It was called "the open
classroom" and it didn't work for them, but it can work for us!
Here's a recent article about it (a quote and a link follow):
-=-
In both Britain and the United States, open classrooms contained no
whole-class lessons, no standardized tests, and no detailed curriculum. The best of
the open classrooms had planned settings where children came in contact with
things, books, and one another at “interest centers” and learned at their own
pace with the help of the teacher. Teachers structured the classroom and
activities for individual students and small work groups. They helped students
negotiate each of the reading, math, science, art, and other interest centers
on the principle that children learn best when they are interested and see
the importance of what they are doing.-=-
_http://www.educationnext.org/20042/68.html_
(http://www.educationnext.org/20042/68.html)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Links
Cindy Fox
Oh, I hear that! I scored excellent on a math test in 8th grade but because
my math grade was low due to my NEVER doing homework - because I always got
As on the tests, so what did I need to do homework for - I was placed in a
lower algebra class. I then mistakenly took business math and changed to
photography midway because it was things like checkbook balancing, which I
had been doing since age 12 when I started my first business! :) Not my
idea of business math. :)
Like you say, different things, different places, so why do they act like
they know what's best when they can't even agree amongst themselves? :)
Take care, c.
Cindy Fox
Author of QuickBooks QuickSteps
www.cindyfox.com
Butterfly Consulting LLC
602-692-8923
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Diane Bentzen
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 9:57 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] interesting development ....
Different schools choose different ways. And within one school, different
teachers choose different ways.
My parents were both teachers (now retired).
My mom ran a grade school resource room (special ed pullout program) and
taught a lot of Colonial American and English history because that's what
she's interested in. She did spelling or reading or writing or whatever the
kids were supposed to be working on within that framework. She said her
school taught far too much Hispanic history (local interest) and she felt
the need to balance that.
My dad taught high school history/civics type subjects using standard
(district-wide, I suppose) textbooks.
He required a weekly current events quiz in all his classes, unlike his
peers teaching the same course, and taught history up to the present moment,
unlike most of his peers who quit at or before Vietnam.
I think we all know from our own school careers how different one teacher's
class is from another. 3/4 of the way through sixth grade I transferred to a
new school. Almost immediately, they did testing to determine placement for
junior high math. I was both gifted and interested in math, but hadn't
covered some of the stuff on the test and was placed in average math. I
never recovered. While I fought the placement and eventually got bumped up
one level, I never got onto the track to have calculus in high school. It's
a sore spot.
Anyway, there's no one set of things taught throughout "public schools." It
varies hugely.
:-) Diane
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
my math grade was low due to my NEVER doing homework - because I always got
As on the tests, so what did I need to do homework for - I was placed in a
lower algebra class. I then mistakenly took business math and changed to
photography midway because it was things like checkbook balancing, which I
had been doing since age 12 when I started my first business! :) Not my
idea of business math. :)
Like you say, different things, different places, so why do they act like
they know what's best when they can't even agree amongst themselves? :)
Take care, c.
Cindy Fox
Author of QuickBooks QuickSteps
www.cindyfox.com
Butterfly Consulting LLC
602-692-8923
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Diane Bentzen
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 9:57 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] interesting development ....
> I guess I just can't figure out how schools determine what should be"Schools" aren't really as monolithic as they seem.
> taught.
Different schools choose different ways. And within one school, different
teachers choose different ways.
My parents were both teachers (now retired).
My mom ran a grade school resource room (special ed pullout program) and
taught a lot of Colonial American and English history because that's what
she's interested in. She did spelling or reading or writing or whatever the
kids were supposed to be working on within that framework. She said her
school taught far too much Hispanic history (local interest) and she felt
the need to balance that.
My dad taught high school history/civics type subjects using standard
(district-wide, I suppose) textbooks.
He required a weekly current events quiz in all his classes, unlike his
peers teaching the same course, and taught history up to the present moment,
unlike most of his peers who quit at or before Vietnam.
I think we all know from our own school careers how different one teacher's
class is from another. 3/4 of the way through sixth grade I transferred to a
new school. Almost immediately, they did testing to determine placement for
junior high math. I was both gifted and interested in math, but hadn't
covered some of the stuff on the test and was placed in average math. I
never recovered. While I fought the placement and eventually got bumped up
one level, I never got onto the track to have calculus in high school. It's
a sore spot.
Anyway, there's no one set of things taught throughout "public schools." It
varies hugely.
:-) Diane
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
Cindy Fox
Exactly!
I just read Summerhill and it's awesome! :) I don't agree with all things,
esp the boarding school part and the bedtimes, but otherwise, it sounds like
a great place. :) I know there are similar 'schools' here, like Sudbury
Valley, but you'd have to be a private school in order to avoid the testing
and curriculum rules here... I've read that Summerhill came under attack in
1999 from the British government because Blair wants to have more control.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/jun1999/summ-j03.shtml
Can't find anything more recent than 2000, so I take it they've survived as
there's no reference on the Summerhill website. Here's more info on open
learning... Free Schools
http://www.pathsoflearning.org/library/legal.cfm
On the open classroom model referred to in the link you sent, Sandra, I was
in such a physical space - new school built in 1970 when I was in
Kindegarten, which I attended I the old school, then moved to the newly
opened school in 1st grade in 1971, but although we had open classrooms, we
learned in traditional ways, as the article pointed out - just because it
was physically open, it was not educationally open. :) I enjoyed being able
to overhear what was happening in the other parts of our 'quad' but we
weren't often released from our group of 30. :) Seems the architects and
the teachers may have been on different wavelengths. :)
The school in my hometown still looks the same and has the open layout, but
I'm sure it is still teaching the same as it did when I tutored there in the
80s as well. :)
Cindy Fox
Author of QuickBooks QuickSteps
www.cindyfox.com
Butterfly Consulting LLC
602-692-8923
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of SandraDodd@...
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 10:19 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] interesting development ....
In a message dated 4/24/2005 11:12:26 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
jacki@... writes:
Some states and districts are trying very hard to do away with that little
glitch in the system. <g>
-=-Too bad it doesn't vary depending on the students in the classroom and
what THEY'D like to learn/do.-=-
Well some people tried that in the 70's. <g> It was called "the open
classroom" and it didn't work for them, but it can work for us!
Here's a recent article about it (a quote and a link follow):
-=-
In both Britain and the United States, open classrooms contained no
whole-class lessons, no standardized tests, and no detailed curriculum. The
best of
the open classrooms had planned settings where children came in contact
with
things, books, and one another at "interest centers" and learned at their
own
pace with the help of the teacher. Teachers structured the classroom and
activities for individual students and small work groups. They helped
students
negotiate each of the reading, math, science, art, and other interest
centers
on the principle that children learn best when they are interested and see
the importance of what they are doing.-=-
_http://www.educationnext.org/20042/68.html_
(http://www.educationnext.org/20042/68.html)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Links
I just read Summerhill and it's awesome! :) I don't agree with all things,
esp the boarding school part and the bedtimes, but otherwise, it sounds like
a great place. :) I know there are similar 'schools' here, like Sudbury
Valley, but you'd have to be a private school in order to avoid the testing
and curriculum rules here... I've read that Summerhill came under attack in
1999 from the British government because Blair wants to have more control.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/jun1999/summ-j03.shtml
Can't find anything more recent than 2000, so I take it they've survived as
there's no reference on the Summerhill website. Here's more info on open
learning... Free Schools
http://www.pathsoflearning.org/library/legal.cfm
On the open classroom model referred to in the link you sent, Sandra, I was
in such a physical space - new school built in 1970 when I was in
Kindegarten, which I attended I the old school, then moved to the newly
opened school in 1st grade in 1971, but although we had open classrooms, we
learned in traditional ways, as the article pointed out - just because it
was physically open, it was not educationally open. :) I enjoyed being able
to overhear what was happening in the other parts of our 'quad' but we
weren't often released from our group of 30. :) Seems the architects and
the teachers may have been on different wavelengths. :)
The school in my hometown still looks the same and has the open layout, but
I'm sure it is still teaching the same as it did when I tutored there in the
80s as well. :)
Cindy Fox
Author of QuickBooks QuickSteps
www.cindyfox.com
Butterfly Consulting LLC
602-692-8923
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of SandraDodd@...
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 10:19 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] interesting development ....
In a message dated 4/24/2005 11:12:26 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
jacki@... writes:
>>Anyway, there's no one set of things taught throughout "public========
>>schools." It varies hugely.<<
Some states and districts are trying very hard to do away with that little
glitch in the system. <g>
-=-Too bad it doesn't vary depending on the students in the classroom and
what THEY'D like to learn/do.-=-
Well some people tried that in the 70's. <g> It was called "the open
classroom" and it didn't work for them, but it can work for us!
Here's a recent article about it (a quote and a link follow):
-=-
In both Britain and the United States, open classrooms contained no
whole-class lessons, no standardized tests, and no detailed curriculum. The
best of
the open classrooms had planned settings where children came in contact
with
things, books, and one another at "interest centers" and learned at their
own
pace with the help of the teacher. Teachers structured the classroom and
activities for individual students and small work groups. They helped
students
negotiate each of the reading, math, science, art, and other interest
centers
on the principle that children learn best when they are interested and see
the importance of what they are doing.-=-
_http://www.educationnext.org/20042/68.html_
(http://www.educationnext.org/20042/68.html)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Links
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/24/2005 12:19:23 PM Central Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
Well some people tried that in the 70's. <g> It was called "the open
classroom" and it didn't work for them, but it can work for us!
~~~
I was in an open classroom in 4th and 5th grades. There were 4th, 5th and
6th graders in it. I learned a lot of stuff. Mostly none of what they wanted
us to learn. I learned about blow jobs, and harassment of smaller kids by
bigger kids. I learned not to put a paper clip in the light socket. I was a
reader, so I read a lot, but mostly we just played at the interest centers (I
don't think they called it that) and hardly ever did we play what it was in
the center. It was mostly social.
Occasionally they would set us up on chairs and try to teach us something.
Usually math. But we got to paint the windows, which I loved. In the late
'60s.
Karen
www.badchair.net
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
Well some people tried that in the 70's. <g> It was called "the open
classroom" and it didn't work for them, but it can work for us!
~~~
I was in an open classroom in 4th and 5th grades. There were 4th, 5th and
6th graders in it. I learned a lot of stuff. Mostly none of what they wanted
us to learn. I learned about blow jobs, and harassment of smaller kids by
bigger kids. I learned not to put a paper clip in the light socket. I was a
reader, so I read a lot, but mostly we just played at the interest centers (I
don't think they called it that) and hardly ever did we play what it was in
the center. It was mostly social.
Occasionally they would set us up on chairs and try to teach us something.
Usually math. But we got to paint the windows, which I loved. In the late
'60s.
Karen
www.badchair.net
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/24/2005 12:33:24 PM Central Standard Time,
jacki@... writes:
In any case, open classroom settings, or open school settings like Sudbury
Valley School in Massachusetts can offer an unschooling setting within a
community, I think.
~~~
No, my open classroom wasn't anything like Sudbury Valley. The adults
didn't "get" unschooling and the kids were never deschooled.
Karen
www.badchair.net
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jacki@... writes:
In any case, open classroom settings, or open school settings like Sudbury
Valley School in Massachusetts can offer an unschooling setting within a
community, I think.
~~~
No, my open classroom wasn't anything like Sudbury Valley. The adults
didn't "get" unschooling and the kids were never deschooled.
Karen
www.badchair.net
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
Roxana was in an "experimental" program in 1993-1994 (ungraded
primary/whole language/constructivist mathematics, multi-age/no grade
levels/no tests/no textbooks/no report cards/no grades) which had
"stations" in their classrooms, and each kid had a box with a set of
things he/she could choose to do. Each had a weekly "contract" and it
had a lot of options on it - like a BINGO card. They had to do at least
one thing in each column and one thing in each row - other than that
they were free to choose their activities for much of the day. The
teacher was new and hardworking and extremely high energy and
intelligent and the number of activities in the classroom and the sheer
variety of activities and activity level in the classroom was amazing.
But the principal came in and told the teacher she was going too far -
that she needed to cut down the number of activities and group the kids
more and so on. I know the principal was worried about burning out a
brand-new teacher. Maybe for good reason.
It was a pretty good year for Roxana. Her experience was like a really
good "open classroom" should have been. Then things went downhill fast
and we took her out of school.
-pam
primary/whole language/constructivist mathematics, multi-age/no grade
levels/no tests/no textbooks/no report cards/no grades) which had
"stations" in their classrooms, and each kid had a box with a set of
things he/she could choose to do. Each had a weekly "contract" and it
had a lot of options on it - like a BINGO card. They had to do at least
one thing in each column and one thing in each row - other than that
they were free to choose their activities for much of the day. The
teacher was new and hardworking and extremely high energy and
intelligent and the number of activities in the classroom and the sheer
variety of activities and activity level in the classroom was amazing.
But the principal came in and told the teacher she was going too far -
that she needed to cut down the number of activities and group the kids
more and so on. I know the principal was worried about burning out a
brand-new teacher. Maybe for good reason.
It was a pretty good year for Roxana. Her experience was like a really
good "open classroom" should have been. Then things went downhill fast
and we took her out of school.
-pam
On Apr 25, 2005, at 5:44 AM, tuckervill2@... wrote:
> No, my open classroom wasn't anything like Sudbury Valley. The adults
> didn't "get" unschooling and the kids were never deschooled.
Gold Standard
>>No, my open classroom wasn't anything like Sudbury Valley. The adultsYeah, my misinterpretation of the "open" concept. I figured it out just
>>didn't "get" unschooling and the kids were never deschooled.<<
after posting. Oops.
Thanks,
Jacki
Cindy Fox
That was much like the teacher Richie had in Montessori. Then in March, they
let her go. The new teacher took out all the old teacher did, saying it
'wasn't Montessori' and acted like it was September and that the other
teacher had never existed.
After trying to give her benefit of the doubt for a few weeks, Richie asked
me why couldn't he stay home and I teach him. :)
Ah, duh! So, that's how I decided to homeschool, later to become unschool.
Because my 4 year old asked. :)
What do you all think about Sudbury in general? Do you consider that
unschooling or just a good alternative? In your experiences, do you see a
Sudbury model as superior, equal or worse than unschooling at home or 'it
depends on the child'.
I ask because I have a single child and we do a lot of park days, but he
would like more interaction with others, just not in a 'schooly' way and
some of us here in Phx are talking about starting a Sudbury like school.
Love to have your feedback!
ALWAYS LEARNING! :)
Thanks!
c.
Cindy Fox
Author of QuickBooks QuickSteps
www.cindyfox.com
Butterfly Consulting LLC
602-692-8923
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Pam Sorooshian
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 7:11 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] interesting development ....
Roxana was in an "experimental" program in 1993-1994 (ungraded primary/whole
language/constructivist mathematics, multi-age/no grade levels/no tests/no
textbooks/no report cards/no grades) which had "stations" in their
classrooms, and each kid had a box with a set of things he/she could choose
to do. Each had a weekly "contract" and it had a lot of options on it - like
a BINGO card. They had to do at least one thing in each column and one thing
in each row - other than that they were free to choose their activities for
much of the day. The teacher was new and hardworking and extremely high
energy and intelligent and the number of activities in the classroom and the
sheer variety of activities and activity level in the classroom was amazing.
But the principal came in and told the teacher she was going too far - that
she needed to cut down the number of activities and group the kids more and
so on. I know the principal was worried about burning out a brand-new
teacher. Maybe for good reason.
It was a pretty good year for Roxana. Her experience was like a really good
"open classroom" should have been. Then things went downhill fast and we
took her out of school.
-pam
let her go. The new teacher took out all the old teacher did, saying it
'wasn't Montessori' and acted like it was September and that the other
teacher had never existed.
After trying to give her benefit of the doubt for a few weeks, Richie asked
me why couldn't he stay home and I teach him. :)
Ah, duh! So, that's how I decided to homeschool, later to become unschool.
Because my 4 year old asked. :)
What do you all think about Sudbury in general? Do you consider that
unschooling or just a good alternative? In your experiences, do you see a
Sudbury model as superior, equal or worse than unschooling at home or 'it
depends on the child'.
I ask because I have a single child and we do a lot of park days, but he
would like more interaction with others, just not in a 'schooly' way and
some of us here in Phx are talking about starting a Sudbury like school.
Love to have your feedback!
ALWAYS LEARNING! :)
Thanks!
c.
Cindy Fox
Author of QuickBooks QuickSteps
www.cindyfox.com
Butterfly Consulting LLC
602-692-8923
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Pam Sorooshian
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 7:11 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] interesting development ....
Roxana was in an "experimental" program in 1993-1994 (ungraded primary/whole
language/constructivist mathematics, multi-age/no grade levels/no tests/no
textbooks/no report cards/no grades) which had "stations" in their
classrooms, and each kid had a box with a set of things he/she could choose
to do. Each had a weekly "contract" and it had a lot of options on it - like
a BINGO card. They had to do at least one thing in each column and one thing
in each row - other than that they were free to choose their activities for
much of the day. The teacher was new and hardworking and extremely high
energy and intelligent and the number of activities in the classroom and the
sheer variety of activities and activity level in the classroom was amazing.
But the principal came in and told the teacher she was going too far - that
she needed to cut down the number of activities and group the kids more and
so on. I know the principal was worried about burning out a brand-new
teacher. Maybe for good reason.
It was a pretty good year for Roxana. Her experience was like a really good
"open classroom" should have been. Then things went downhill fast and we
took her out of school.
-pam
On Apr 25, 2005, at 5:44 AM, tuckervill2@... wrote:
> No, my open classroom wasn't anything like Sudbury Valley. The adults
> didn't "get" unschooling and the kids were never deschooled.
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
DonorsChoose. A simple way to provide underprivileged children resources
often lacking in public schools. Fund a student project in NYC/NC today!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/T_B0zD/.WnJAA/a8ILAA/fHIqlB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
Yahoo! Groups Links
mozafamily
--- In [email protected], "Gold Standard" <jacki@b...>
wrote:
place that I am in now by Summerhill & Sudbury research, they were
my first exposure to the ideas as I had never heard of "attachment
parenting" (although I did a lot of it without realizing there were
others who were doing the same or that was what it was called.) When
I first really started researching alternitives to my son going to
kindy I heard about the schools and I actually intended on opening
one of my own (I was still trying to make use of my college degrees,
LOL) and probably would have except that I couldn't talk anyone else
into the idea of sending their kids to my house everyday rather than
school! Now that it has been just my ds & I home learning together
most of the time & having a lot of freedom, I'm not sure if I would
want other kids around as much. Yes I would like for him to have
more friends & playtime with friends but he does have a playdate on
occasion and frankly he seems pretty happy the way he is. He has
actually said on more than one occasion that he enjoys playing
alone, so I probably need to get over the socialization thing but I
also see that some things he learns better from others than from me,
and I'm still a little worried that he will miss out on something.
(although I really don't like the way kids act most of the time in
school anyhow ie. teasing and such, I don't want him to learn
that!) But for now he seems happy & learning more all the time so I
will just have to have hope that everything will be fine. But it's
not like I'm closing doors to opportunities either as we are also
suppossed to have a playdate this week with another unschooling
family that has a boy that's about 2 years older than my ds, so I'm
looking forward to that as well. Hopefully it will be nice but I
also know that there are a LOT of variations in unschooling as well
and just because we have some simalarities doesn't mean we will get
along well. Anyhow, I'm getting long now, I just wanted to share my
experience that not everyone comes by unschooling or life learning
through attachment parenting, some of us go a longer way around.
Moza
wrote:
> >>No, my open classroom wasn't anything like Sudbury Valley. Theadults
> >>didn't "get" unschooling and the kids were never deschooled.<<I am one of those who came to the unschooling/ life learning
>
place that I am in now by Summerhill & Sudbury research, they were
my first exposure to the ideas as I had never heard of "attachment
parenting" (although I did a lot of it without realizing there were
others who were doing the same or that was what it was called.) When
I first really started researching alternitives to my son going to
kindy I heard about the schools and I actually intended on opening
one of my own (I was still trying to make use of my college degrees,
LOL) and probably would have except that I couldn't talk anyone else
into the idea of sending their kids to my house everyday rather than
school! Now that it has been just my ds & I home learning together
most of the time & having a lot of freedom, I'm not sure if I would
want other kids around as much. Yes I would like for him to have
more friends & playtime with friends but he does have a playdate on
occasion and frankly he seems pretty happy the way he is. He has
actually said on more than one occasion that he enjoys playing
alone, so I probably need to get over the socialization thing but I
also see that some things he learns better from others than from me,
and I'm still a little worried that he will miss out on something.
(although I really don't like the way kids act most of the time in
school anyhow ie. teasing and such, I don't want him to learn
that!) But for now he seems happy & learning more all the time so I
will just have to have hope that everything will be fine. But it's
not like I'm closing doors to opportunities either as we are also
suppossed to have a playdate this week with another unschooling
family that has a boy that's about 2 years older than my ds, so I'm
looking forward to that as well. Hopefully it will be nice but I
also know that there are a LOT of variations in unschooling as well
and just because we have some simalarities doesn't mean we will get
along well. Anyhow, I'm getting long now, I just wanted to share my
experience that not everyone comes by unschooling or life learning
through attachment parenting, some of us go a longer way around.
Moza