The Invisible Authority
dana_burdick
Hi all,
I sat down yesterday morning and had the need to bleed. Bleed out
some thoughts not wholly formed in my head, that is. What came out
in words was not what I was expecting at all. After a couple years
of homeschooling/unschooling I didn't even realized I was embracing
it as much for myself as for my children. I hadn't really taken
time to analyze my own school situation in detail. Bluck! Who wants
to do that?
After writing my thoughts and considering the profundity of the
words (ok, at least they were profound to me), I just _had_ to share
them with someone. So, I hope you don't mind and hope that it might
resonate with other's experiences.
Thanks,
-Dana
The Invisible Authority
As a child I was always trying to please the adults in my life.
Probably the thing that school educated me in the most was pleasing
others for pleasing's sake. With worksheet after worksheet of
questions, grades and tests I was in a perpetual pleasing fest.
Never did it occur to me that this was not desirable. Certainly, the
teachers gave me ample positive feedback when I was the proper
soldier marching to their beat. Any interest I had separate from my
teachers would be deemed not worthy, especially if it wasn't tested
and graded, so I became dependent on the system to assign me my
interests not to mention level of self worth. The damage this has
done to me as a grown adult is difficult to calculate. I wonder
what kind of person I would be today if I had developed my own
interests along the way untainted by school bias.
With all the years of pleasing and meeting other's expectations I
believe that I was so accustomed to it that I was not comfortable
without the external pressures of school. I was kind of lost
without someone to give me my marching orders. After finishing my
schooling I tried staying in my comfort level by spending my time
trying to meet some kind of invisible expectation set by some
invisible authority. This was completely subconscious of course.
The unschooling philosophy has given me a new perspective and, for
the first time in my life, I have the "invisible authority" to
pursue what interests me and go about it in a way that is free from
expectation and, for lack of better words, accomplished in a joyful
manner. I need this "authority", you see; I am still crippled from
the system I grew up under. If it weren't for my parents turning a
blind eye to our performance in school and never having any ambition
for us (I can't remember a single time they asked to see my report
card), I might have permanently been in limbo with no self esteem to
speak of. Still, with the large influence on me from 16 years of
school, I have spent a fair amount of my adulthood becoming
acquainted with who I really am. This is really a shame if you
think about it; all my teachers who cared so much, yet managed to
suffocate and cripple me to the point where I had to be away from
the school system for more than a decade to repair the effects.
Even then, I was not really seeing how much better things could be
before I was introduced to the concepts of unschooling.
I can only imagine what gift we are handing our children by allowing
them to get on with the business of self discovery and not putting
their lives on hold for some other "authority".
I sat down yesterday morning and had the need to bleed. Bleed out
some thoughts not wholly formed in my head, that is. What came out
in words was not what I was expecting at all. After a couple years
of homeschooling/unschooling I didn't even realized I was embracing
it as much for myself as for my children. I hadn't really taken
time to analyze my own school situation in detail. Bluck! Who wants
to do that?
After writing my thoughts and considering the profundity of the
words (ok, at least they were profound to me), I just _had_ to share
them with someone. So, I hope you don't mind and hope that it might
resonate with other's experiences.
Thanks,
-Dana
The Invisible Authority
As a child I was always trying to please the adults in my life.
Probably the thing that school educated me in the most was pleasing
others for pleasing's sake. With worksheet after worksheet of
questions, grades and tests I was in a perpetual pleasing fest.
Never did it occur to me that this was not desirable. Certainly, the
teachers gave me ample positive feedback when I was the proper
soldier marching to their beat. Any interest I had separate from my
teachers would be deemed not worthy, especially if it wasn't tested
and graded, so I became dependent on the system to assign me my
interests not to mention level of self worth. The damage this has
done to me as a grown adult is difficult to calculate. I wonder
what kind of person I would be today if I had developed my own
interests along the way untainted by school bias.
With all the years of pleasing and meeting other's expectations I
believe that I was so accustomed to it that I was not comfortable
without the external pressures of school. I was kind of lost
without someone to give me my marching orders. After finishing my
schooling I tried staying in my comfort level by spending my time
trying to meet some kind of invisible expectation set by some
invisible authority. This was completely subconscious of course.
The unschooling philosophy has given me a new perspective and, for
the first time in my life, I have the "invisible authority" to
pursue what interests me and go about it in a way that is free from
expectation and, for lack of better words, accomplished in a joyful
manner. I need this "authority", you see; I am still crippled from
the system I grew up under. If it weren't for my parents turning a
blind eye to our performance in school and never having any ambition
for us (I can't remember a single time they asked to see my report
card), I might have permanently been in limbo with no self esteem to
speak of. Still, with the large influence on me from 16 years of
school, I have spent a fair amount of my adulthood becoming
acquainted with who I really am. This is really a shame if you
think about it; all my teachers who cared so much, yet managed to
suffocate and cripple me to the point where I had to be away from
the school system for more than a decade to repair the effects.
Even then, I was not really seeing how much better things could be
before I was introduced to the concepts of unschooling.
I can only imagine what gift we are handing our children by allowing
them to get on with the business of self discovery and not putting
their lives on hold for some other "authority".
Angela S
<<<I can only imagine what gift we are handing our children by allowing
them to get on with the business of self discovery and not putting
their lives on hold for some other "authority".>>>
I enjoyed reading your thoughts Dana. I think we are giving our children a
huge gift by letting them grow up minus that lesson of learning to conform
just to make other people happy. It has been interesting already to see it
play out in my young children's lives (they are 8 and 10 and always
unschooled) and I know that as they grow older it will continue to be
interesting to see how this freedom affects their lives. I suspect that
they will already know themselves when they reach young adulthood and they
won't have to spend the next ten years figuring out who they are and how to
be true to themselves.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
them to get on with the business of self discovery and not putting
their lives on hold for some other "authority".>>>
I enjoyed reading your thoughts Dana. I think we are giving our children a
huge gift by letting them grow up minus that lesson of learning to conform
just to make other people happy. It has been interesting already to see it
play out in my young children's lives (they are 8 and 10 and always
unschooled) and I know that as they grow older it will continue to be
interesting to see how this freedom affects their lives. I suspect that
they will already know themselves when they reach young adulthood and they
won't have to spend the next ten years figuring out who they are and how to
be true to themselves.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On Mar 7, 2005, at 10:36 AM, dana_burdick wrote:
probably never became aware of it.
MANY of us could probably honestly say we're "recovering schoolaholics."
-pam
> This is really a shame if you think about it; all my teachers whoIt is a shame, I agree. And THEY were as crippled, themselves and
> cared so much, yet managed to suffocate and cripple me to the point
> where I had to be away from the school system for more than a decade
> to repair the effects.
probably never became aware of it.
MANY of us could probably honestly say we're "recovering schoolaholics."
-pam
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/7/2005 4:16:07 PM Mountain Standard Time,
DanaBurdick@... writes:
-=-I can only imagine what gift we are handing our children by allowing
them to get on with the business of self discovery and not putting
their lives on hold for some other "authority".-=-
It might be bigger than you imagine now, just as unschooling was bigger than
you imagined. But it might be just as big as a plain, happy life.
I'm glad you shared your writing and ideas here!
-=-Any interest I had separate from my
teachers would be deemed not worthy, especially if it wasn't tested
and graded, so I became dependent on the system to assign me my
interests not to mention level of self worth. The damage this has
done to me as a grown adult is difficult to calculate. I wonder
what kind of person I would be today if I had developed my own
interests along the way untainted by school bias.-=-
-=- After finishing my
schooling I tried staying in my comfort level by spending my time
trying to meet some kind of invisible expectation set by some
invisible authority. This was completely subconscious of course.-=-
Freud talks about this. He was in a rules-bound, schoolified culture, and
within a more intellectual part of even that (meaning MORE school, MORE book
worship). He called that thing you're talking about "the super-ego," the part
of a mind that develops to control the rest of it. The super-ego is built
of the messages you've received from others and the way to go along to get
along in "civilized culture" is to have a well developed super-ego which will
keep you from bad behavior or selfishness. (That's my own summary, and could
be tweaked or picked at by psychologists and psychiatrists, but that's okay.)
If we want to change paths or beliefs, we have to wrestle with that
super-ego and remodel it. That's why unschooling is SO much more difficult than
school-at-home with a curriculum. That's just a private school, our super-ego
says; that's a better student-teacher ratio, our super-ego says.
-=-I have the "invisible authority" to
pursue what interests me and go about it in a way that is free from
expectation and, for lack of better words, accomplished in a joyful
manner.-=-
"Accomplished in a joyful manner" could be worded "lived in joy."
"Accomplished" might be something you leave by the side of the wagontrail to
cross the mountains. You can accomplish more, as regards unschooling, by
not wanting to "accomplish." And at this point doesn't it sound like a
spiritual message rather than a practical one?
It's practically necessary to change one's spiritual stance to live
unschooling at its best.
I don't know about everyone else, but my super-ego was built of a lot of
Baptist parts, and a lot of lower-class negative messages about not getting
above yourself and all. So if I want to believe that my children are whole and
good, I need to negotiate this point with Miss Musick, my Sunday School
teacher who reminds me still (dead though she's been since the 1970's or so) that
children are born sinful and have to become good by obedience to Jesus as
interpretted by that little brick building in northern New Mexico. And she's not
the only one in there. But I've worked at it, little by little and fairly
constantly, to gain confidence in my own beliefs and not to ask for approval
from the voices in my head.
-=-all my teachers who cared so much, yet managed to
suffocate and cripple me . . .-=-
They meant to strengthen and toughen and mold and empower you.
All the justifications for that were in their own mental authority figures,
in their own super-ego, and they felt they had accomplished something and
succeeded when you bent to the system and "succeeded." It's not worth being
angry with them. Maybe you can heal your mental images of them a bit too, as
your children live in their joyful freedom. What if your most uptight
teacher had had a happier childhood without so much parental shaming, no
spankings, no belief that she was a vile sinner from birth? Maybe you can lend a
little pool of healing to the memory of her, and all those in your super-ego.
What if my grandmother had been able to sleep late and daydream sometimes
instead of getting up at the crack of dawn and working HARD on a ranch with six
younger siblings for nothing, to the point that she would marry the first
person who walked by and would get her out of there? I lend her some sympathy
and good wishes, though she's as dead as Miss Musick.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
DanaBurdick@... writes:
-=-I can only imagine what gift we are handing our children by allowing
them to get on with the business of self discovery and not putting
their lives on hold for some other "authority".-=-
It might be bigger than you imagine now, just as unschooling was bigger than
you imagined. But it might be just as big as a plain, happy life.
I'm glad you shared your writing and ideas here!
-=-Any interest I had separate from my
teachers would be deemed not worthy, especially if it wasn't tested
and graded, so I became dependent on the system to assign me my
interests not to mention level of self worth. The damage this has
done to me as a grown adult is difficult to calculate. I wonder
what kind of person I would be today if I had developed my own
interests along the way untainted by school bias.-=-
-=- After finishing my
schooling I tried staying in my comfort level by spending my time
trying to meet some kind of invisible expectation set by some
invisible authority. This was completely subconscious of course.-=-
Freud talks about this. He was in a rules-bound, schoolified culture, and
within a more intellectual part of even that (meaning MORE school, MORE book
worship). He called that thing you're talking about "the super-ego," the part
of a mind that develops to control the rest of it. The super-ego is built
of the messages you've received from others and the way to go along to get
along in "civilized culture" is to have a well developed super-ego which will
keep you from bad behavior or selfishness. (That's my own summary, and could
be tweaked or picked at by psychologists and psychiatrists, but that's okay.)
If we want to change paths or beliefs, we have to wrestle with that
super-ego and remodel it. That's why unschooling is SO much more difficult than
school-at-home with a curriculum. That's just a private school, our super-ego
says; that's a better student-teacher ratio, our super-ego says.
-=-I have the "invisible authority" to
pursue what interests me and go about it in a way that is free from
expectation and, for lack of better words, accomplished in a joyful
manner.-=-
"Accomplished in a joyful manner" could be worded "lived in joy."
"Accomplished" might be something you leave by the side of the wagontrail to
cross the mountains. You can accomplish more, as regards unschooling, by
not wanting to "accomplish." And at this point doesn't it sound like a
spiritual message rather than a practical one?
It's practically necessary to change one's spiritual stance to live
unschooling at its best.
I don't know about everyone else, but my super-ego was built of a lot of
Baptist parts, and a lot of lower-class negative messages about not getting
above yourself and all. So if I want to believe that my children are whole and
good, I need to negotiate this point with Miss Musick, my Sunday School
teacher who reminds me still (dead though she's been since the 1970's or so) that
children are born sinful and have to become good by obedience to Jesus as
interpretted by that little brick building in northern New Mexico. And she's not
the only one in there. But I've worked at it, little by little and fairly
constantly, to gain confidence in my own beliefs and not to ask for approval
from the voices in my head.
-=-all my teachers who cared so much, yet managed to
suffocate and cripple me . . .-=-
They meant to strengthen and toughen and mold and empower you.
All the justifications for that were in their own mental authority figures,
in their own super-ego, and they felt they had accomplished something and
succeeded when you bent to the system and "succeeded." It's not worth being
angry with them. Maybe you can heal your mental images of them a bit too, as
your children live in their joyful freedom. What if your most uptight
teacher had had a happier childhood without so much parental shaming, no
spankings, no belief that she was a vile sinner from birth? Maybe you can lend a
little pool of healing to the memory of her, and all those in your super-ego.
What if my grandmother had been able to sleep late and daydream sometimes
instead of getting up at the crack of dawn and working HARD on a ranch with six
younger siblings for nothing, to the point that she would marry the first
person who walked by and would get her out of there? I lend her some sympathy
and good wishes, though she's as dead as Miss Musick.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Patti Diamondlady Diamond, SCHM
I love your quote Pam!:)
It is so true!
In Love and Light,
Patti Diamond and the boys (Life Long Learners Chris 13 1/2, Matthew
8, Anthony 7)
Life Long Learning Academy
JUST PUBLISHED!! "Life Long Learning ~ Transforming Learning -
Discovering Learning Through Living Life in Unlimitless Possibilities"
http://www.lifelonglearning4all.com
http://www.diamondlady.net
--- In [email protected], Pam Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@e...> wrote:
It is so true!
In Love and Light,
Patti Diamond and the boys (Life Long Learners Chris 13 1/2, Matthew
8, Anthony 7)
Life Long Learning Academy
JUST PUBLISHED!! "Life Long Learning ~ Transforming Learning -
Discovering Learning Through Living Life in Unlimitless Possibilities"
http://www.lifelonglearning4all.com
http://www.diamondlady.net
--- In [email protected], Pam Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@e...> wrote:
>
> On Mar 7, 2005, at 10:36 AM, dana_burdick wrote:
>
> > This is really a shame if you think about it; all my teachers who
> > cared so much, yet managed to suffocate and cripple me to the point
> > where I had to be away from the school system for more than a decade
> > to repair the effects.
>
> It is a shame, I agree. And THEY were as crippled, themselves and
> probably never became aware of it.
>
> MANY of us could probably honestly say we're "recovering schoolaholics."
>
> -pam
Patti Diamondlady Diamond, SCHM
I know what you mean Sandra.
I was raised Catholic, so the ego self in me has some of those same
indoctrinated religious connotations in there. In more ways than just
words. As a child in Catholic school if you did not agree and submit
to their way of thinking, you were often times beaten. Back then,
there were no strict laws protecting children from that and what ones
there were, people were afraid to speak out against the church and the
school in particular that I went to.
I for one, spent many years being beaten by being "hit with a yard
stick" on the knuckles and hair pulled etc.
They knew no better, as you say as this is only what they knew. I am
grateful to the people who finally did stand up to the church and
school I was in by the time I turned 14, so that no other children had
to suffer.
In Love and Light,
Patti Diamond and the boys (Life Long Learners Chris 13 1/2, Matthew
8, Anthony 7)
Life Long Learning Academy
JUST PUBLISHED!! "Life Long Learning ~ Transforming Learning -
Discovering Learning Through Living Life in Unlimitless Possibilities"
http://www.lifelonglearning4all.com
http://www.diamondlady.net
I was raised Catholic, so the ego self in me has some of those same
indoctrinated religious connotations in there. In more ways than just
words. As a child in Catholic school if you did not agree and submit
to their way of thinking, you were often times beaten. Back then,
there were no strict laws protecting children from that and what ones
there were, people were afraid to speak out against the church and the
school in particular that I went to.
I for one, spent many years being beaten by being "hit with a yard
stick" on the knuckles and hair pulled etc.
They knew no better, as you say as this is only what they knew. I am
grateful to the people who finally did stand up to the church and
school I was in by the time I turned 14, so that no other children had
to suffer.
In Love and Light,
Patti Diamond and the boys (Life Long Learners Chris 13 1/2, Matthew
8, Anthony 7)
Life Long Learning Academy
JUST PUBLISHED!! "Life Long Learning ~ Transforming Learning -
Discovering Learning Through Living Life in Unlimitless Possibilities"
http://www.lifelonglearning4all.com
http://www.diamondlady.net
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 3/7/2005 4:16:07 PM Mountain Standard Time,
> DanaBurdick@c... writes:
>
> -=-I can only imagine what gift we are handing our children by
allowing
> them to get on with the business of self discovery and not putting
> their lives on hold for some other "authority".-=-
>
> It might be bigger than you imagine now, just as unschooling was
bigger than
> you imagined. But it might be just as big as a plain, happy life.
>
> I'm glad you shared your writing and ideas here!
>
> -=-Any interest I had separate from my
> teachers would be deemed not worthy, especially if it wasn't tested
> and graded, so I became dependent on the system to assign me my
> interests not to mention level of self worth. The damage this has
> done to me as a grown adult is difficult to calculate. I wonder
> what kind of person I would be today if I had developed my own
> interests along the way untainted by school bias.-=-
>
>
>
> -=- After finishing my
> schooling I tried staying in my comfort level by spending my time
> trying to meet some kind of invisible expectation set by some
> invisible authority. This was completely subconscious of course.-=-
>
> Freud talks about this. He was in a rules-bound, schoolified
culture, and
> within a more intellectual part of even that (meaning MORE school,
MORE book
> worship). He called that thing you're talking about "the
super-ego," the part
> of a mind that develops to control the rest of it. The super-ego is
built
> of the messages you've received from others and the way to go along
to get
> along in "civilized culture" is to have a well developed super-ego
which will
> keep you from bad behavior or selfishness. (That's my own summary,
and could
> be tweaked or picked at by psychologists and psychiatrists, but
that's okay.)
>
> If we want to change paths or beliefs, we have to wrestle with that
> super-ego and remodel it. That's why unschooling is SO much more
difficult than
> school-at-home with a curriculum. That's just a private school, our
super-ego
> says; that's a better student-teacher ratio, our super-ego says.
>
> -=-I have the "invisible authority" to
> pursue what interests me and go about it in a way that is free from
> expectation and, for lack of better words, accomplished in a joyful
> manner.-=-
>
> "Accomplished in a joyful manner" could be worded "lived in joy."
> "Accomplished" might be something you leave by the side of the
wagontrail to
> cross the mountains. You can accomplish more, as regards
unschooling, by
> not wanting to "accomplish." And at this point doesn't it sound
like a
> spiritual message rather than a practical one?
>
> It's practically necessary to change one's spiritual stance to live
> unschooling at its best.
>
> I don't know about everyone else, but my super-ego was built of a
lot of
> Baptist parts, and a lot of lower-class negative messages about not
getting
> above yourself and all. So if I want to believe that my children
are whole and
> good, I need to negotiate this point with Miss Musick, my Sunday
School
> teacher who reminds me still (dead though she's been since the
1970's or so) that
> children are born sinful and have to become good by obedience to
Jesus as
> interpretted by that little brick building in northern New Mexico.
And she's not
> the only one in there. But I've worked at it, little by little and
fairly
> constantly, to gain confidence in my own beliefs and not to ask for
approval
> from the voices in my head.
>
> -=-all my teachers who cared so much, yet managed to
> suffocate and cripple me . . .-=-
>
> They meant to strengthen and toughen and mold and empower you.
> All the justifications for that were in their own mental authority
figures,
> in their own super-ego, and they felt they had accomplished
something and
> succeeded when you bent to the system and "succeeded." It's not
worth being
> angry with them. Maybe you can heal your mental images of them a
bit too, as
> your children live in their joyful freedom. What if your most
uptight
> teacher had had a happier childhood without so much parental
shaming, no
> spankings, no belief that she was a vile sinner from birth? Maybe
you can lend a
> little pool of healing to the memory of her, and all those in your
super-ego.
>
> What if my grandmother had been able to sleep late and daydream
sometimes
> instead of getting up at the crack of dawn and working HARD on a
ranch with six
> younger siblings for nothing, to the point that she would marry the
first
> person who walked by and would get her out of there? I lend her
some sympathy
> and good wishes, though she's as dead as Miss Musick.
>
> Sandra
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/7/2005 5:16:30 PM Central Standard Time,
DanaBurdick@... writes:
If it weren't for my parents turning a
blind eye to our performance in school and never having any ambition
for us (I can't remember a single time they asked to see my report
card), I might have permanently been in limbo with no self esteem to
speak of.
~~~~
I think what you missed was their blessing. Children need their parent's
hope invested into them. A blessing. Acceptance. Acknowledgement. Not
indifference.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
DanaBurdick@... writes:
If it weren't for my parents turning a
blind eye to our performance in school and never having any ambition
for us (I can't remember a single time they asked to see my report
card), I might have permanently been in limbo with no self esteem to
speak of.
~~~~
I think what you missed was their blessing. Children need their parent's
hope invested into them. A blessing. Acceptance. Acknowledgement. Not
indifference.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dana Burdick
Yes, I will have to think about this one. Here are my thoughts off the top
of my head.
I guess my real point in the previous message was that my parents did not
tag my self worth to my performance in school. I actually felt wholly
accepted by my parents, but there might have been a thread of blessing that
I needed with regards to my school work. I think that it is probably more
accurate to say that there was a mismatch between what my parents valued and
what the school valued. That mismatch, now that I'm thinking about it,
might have left me more insecure as a person than I realize.
Oddly enough though, when my mom and I speak as adults, I get a real sense
that she is the one person in my life that made it possible at all for me to
unschool. Her disregard for school antics, such as issuing grades, I think
gave me the permission to dismiss it myself. She fully supports my efforts
in unschooling. With sage-like assuredness, she makes comments like, "You
can rest easy now and not worry a day more about your children. They have
received such a firm foundation from you and are so secure in themselves
that, as long as you continue in the same vein, they need no more
intervention to grow up as whole and happy individuals." The other thing
she says is, "Children grow up like weeds." I think she means by this,
that they are quite resilient and determined beings that will find their own
way through cracks in the concrete. We can work to open up a crack for
them, but they just might find another crack that suite them better, and
make their way to the sunlight in spite of our efforts. And, this is my
comment; I think our real job is to be there to celebrate when they emerge
however they emerge.
Thanks for the observation. My husband and I were actually discussing this
and he made a similar comment.
I just love exploring the psychology behind people's motives in life and
hearing other's viewpoints, so I welcome others comments.
-Dana
_____
From: tuckervill2@... [mailto:tuckervill2@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 6:26 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] The Invisible Authority
In a message dated 3/7/2005 5:16:30 PM Central Standard Time,
DanaBurdick@... writes:
If it weren't for my parents turning a
blind eye to our performance in school and never having any ambition
for us (I can't remember a single time they asked to see my report
card), I might have permanently been in limbo with no self esteem to
speak of.
~~~~
I think what you missed was their blessing. Children need their parent's
hope invested into them. A blessing. Acceptance. Acknowledgement. Not
indifference.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
of my head.
I guess my real point in the previous message was that my parents did not
tag my self worth to my performance in school. I actually felt wholly
accepted by my parents, but there might have been a thread of blessing that
I needed with regards to my school work. I think that it is probably more
accurate to say that there was a mismatch between what my parents valued and
what the school valued. That mismatch, now that I'm thinking about it,
might have left me more insecure as a person than I realize.
Oddly enough though, when my mom and I speak as adults, I get a real sense
that she is the one person in my life that made it possible at all for me to
unschool. Her disregard for school antics, such as issuing grades, I think
gave me the permission to dismiss it myself. She fully supports my efforts
in unschooling. With sage-like assuredness, she makes comments like, "You
can rest easy now and not worry a day more about your children. They have
received such a firm foundation from you and are so secure in themselves
that, as long as you continue in the same vein, they need no more
intervention to grow up as whole and happy individuals." The other thing
she says is, "Children grow up like weeds." I think she means by this,
that they are quite resilient and determined beings that will find their own
way through cracks in the concrete. We can work to open up a crack for
them, but they just might find another crack that suite them better, and
make their way to the sunlight in spite of our efforts. And, this is my
comment; I think our real job is to be there to celebrate when they emerge
however they emerge.
Thanks for the observation. My husband and I were actually discussing this
and he made a similar comment.
I just love exploring the psychology behind people's motives in life and
hearing other's viewpoints, so I welcome others comments.
-Dana
_____
From: tuckervill2@... [mailto:tuckervill2@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 6:26 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] The Invisible Authority
In a message dated 3/7/2005 5:16:30 PM Central Standard Time,
DanaBurdick@... writes:
If it weren't for my parents turning a
blind eye to our performance in school and never having any ambition
for us (I can't remember a single time they asked to see my report
card), I might have permanently been in limbo with no self esteem to
speak of.
~~~~
I think what you missed was their blessing. Children need their parent's
hope invested into them. A blessing. Acceptance. Acknowledgement. Not
indifference.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dominique Moseley
read the last sentence...that is me!
Dominique
learning every day with Stanzi, Robby, Gabbi and Julian
http://bhl.gotdns.com/
--- In [email protected], Pam Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@e...> wrote:
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Dominique
learning every day with Stanzi, Robby, Gabbi and Julian
http://bhl.gotdns.com/
--- In [email protected], Pam Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@e...> wrote:
>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> On Mar 7, 2005, at 10:36 AM, dana_burdick wrote:
>
> > This is really a shame if you think about it; all my teachers who
> > cared so much, yet managed to suffocate and cripple me to the point
> > where I had to be away from the school system for more than a decade
> > to repair the effects.
>
> It is a shame, I agree. And THEY were as crippled, themselves and
> probably never became aware of it.
>
> MANY of us could probably honestly say we're "recovering schoolaholics."
>
> -pam
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dominique Moseley
Hi all,
I am sorry about that last post... I meant to send that to my husband :)
Dominique
learning every day with Stanzi, Robby, Gabbi and Julian
http://bhl.gotdns.com/
_____
From: Dominique Moseley [mailto:dominique@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 10:56 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [AlwaysLearning] Re: The Invisible Authority
read the last sentence...that is me!
Dominique
learning every day with Stanzi, Robby, Gabbi and Julian
http://bhl.gotdns.com/
--- In [email protected], Pam Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@e...> wrote:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I am sorry about that last post... I meant to send that to my husband :)
Dominique
learning every day with Stanzi, Robby, Gabbi and Julian
http://bhl.gotdns.com/
_____
From: Dominique Moseley [mailto:dominique@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 10:56 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [AlwaysLearning] Re: The Invisible Authority
read the last sentence...that is me!
Dominique
learning every day with Stanzi, Robby, Gabbi and Julian
http://bhl.gotdns.com/
--- In [email protected], Pam Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@e...> wrote:
>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> On Mar 7, 2005, at 10:36 AM, dana_burdick wrote:
>
> > This is really a shame if you think about it; all my teachers who
> > cared so much, yet managed to suffocate and cripple me to the point
> > where I had to be away from the school system for more than a decade
> > to repair the effects.
>
> It is a shame, I agree. And THEY were as crippled, themselves and
> probably never became aware of it.
>
> MANY of us could probably honestly say we're "recovering schoolaholics."
>
> -pam
ADVERTISEMENT
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/10/2005 8:51:15 AM Mountain Standard Time,
DanaBurdick@... writes:
-=-I think that it is probably more
accurate to say that there was a mismatch between what my parents valued and
what the school valued. That mismatch, now that I'm thinking about it,
might have left me more insecure as a person than I realize.-=-
---------------------
But was it because you had come to WANT that adrenaline charge of getting an
A or a privilege or an honor roll note and you wanted more of the same at
home?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
DanaBurdick@... writes:
-=-I think that it is probably more
accurate to say that there was a mismatch between what my parents valued and
what the school valued. That mismatch, now that I'm thinking about it,
might have left me more insecure as a person than I realize.-=-
---------------------
But was it because you had come to WANT that adrenaline charge of getting an
A or a privilege or an honor roll note and you wanted more of the same at
home?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Laura Moseley
> MANY of us could probably honestly say we're"recovering schoolaholics.<
Quilty! But I, personally , don't know if I am
recovering. I still like schooly things but my
ds hates anything schooly and I have to respect
that. He loves to learn just in a different way
from myself. Its all of our differences on this
Earth that makes life interesting.
Laura M.
Gold Standard
In a message dated 3/10/2005 8:51:15 AM Mountain Standard Time,
DanaBurdick@... writes:
-=-I think that it is probably more
accurate to say that there was a mismatch between what my parents valued
and
what the school valued. That mismatch, now that I'm thinking about it,
might have left me more insecure as a person than I realize.-=-
---------------------
school this year over unschooling. She said she wanted to learn what
everyone else her age was learning. Even with an offer on my part to buy the
school's curriculum, to set up whatever situation she wanted, she insisted
on this art/academics charter school (which in comparison to most public
schools is pretty cool). She has all A's, is being allowed to skip 8th
grade, and is totally jiving on this exact adrenaline charge that you speak
of Sandra. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Jacki
DanaBurdick@... writes:
-=-I think that it is probably more
accurate to say that there was a mismatch between what my parents valued
and
what the school valued. That mismatch, now that I'm thinking about it,
might have left me more insecure as a person than I realize.-=-
---------------------
>>But was it because you had come to WANT that adrenaline charge of gettingan
>>A or a privilege or an honor roll note and you wanted more of the same atThis is very apropos for me right now. My daughter chose public middle
>>home?
>>Sandra
school this year over unschooling. She said she wanted to learn what
everyone else her age was learning. Even with an offer on my part to buy the
school's curriculum, to set up whatever situation she wanted, she insisted
on this art/academics charter school (which in comparison to most public
schools is pretty cool). She has all A's, is being allowed to skip 8th
grade, and is totally jiving on this exact adrenaline charge that you speak
of Sandra. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Jacki
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/10/2005 9:53:00 PM Central Standard Time,
lsam400803@... writes:
Quilty! But I, personally , don't know if I am
recovering. I still like schooly things
~~~
I still like schooly things. We were at a baseball sign up at the
elementary school cafeteria on Tuesday. One of the teachers at the school who is also
involved in baseball was working on some little cards for her class the next
day. So I was chatting with her in the teacher's lounge/work room.
You would NOT BELIEVE the cool equipment they have in teacher's lounges
these days! Giant laminating machines and a copier that will take construction
paper and a die cut system that lets you make all the little fish name tags
you want! A row of paper cutters of every kind! The old inkie ditto machine
is a thing of the past!
I had a great time helping her cut the cards after she ran them through the
laminator.
But then, I always wanted to work at Kinko's, too.
Karen
www.thanksmom.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lsam400803@... writes:
> MANY of us could probably honestly say we're"recovering schoolaholics.<
Quilty! But I, personally , don't know if I am
recovering. I still like schooly things
~~~
I still like schooly things. We were at a baseball sign up at the
elementary school cafeteria on Tuesday. One of the teachers at the school who is also
involved in baseball was working on some little cards for her class the next
day. So I was chatting with her in the teacher's lounge/work room.
You would NOT BELIEVE the cool equipment they have in teacher's lounges
these days! Giant laminating machines and a copier that will take construction
paper and a die cut system that lets you make all the little fish name tags
you want! A row of paper cutters of every kind! The old inkie ditto machine
is a thing of the past!
I had a great time helping her cut the cards after she ran them through the
laminator.
But then, I always wanted to work at Kinko's, too.
Karen
www.thanksmom.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/10/2005 9:13:01 PM Mountain Standard Time,
jacki@... writes:
She has all A's, is being allowed to skip 8th
grade, and is totally jiving on this exact adrenaline charge that you speak
of Sandra. Any suggestions?
---------------------
Let her enjoy it!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jacki@... writes:
She has all A's, is being allowed to skip 8th
grade, and is totally jiving on this exact adrenaline charge that you speak
of Sandra. Any suggestions?
---------------------
Let her enjoy it!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
AlysonRR
There's a home laminating machine called the Xyron which will make
stickers as well as laminate. It comes in several sizes - the largest
can do 8-1/2" wide paper, I think. There are home die cut machines from
Sizzix. You can get dies for alphabet letters, shapes, gift tags...
Both can be found at Micheals/AC Moore/Joann's or other craft stores or
occasionally on home shopping channels. In our area both Micheals and
ACMoore have 40% off coupons regularly and accept competitor coupons so
the cost can be cut considerably. You don't have to think of them as
schooly - call them art supplies :-) I use dies and stickers in my
scrapbooks. Sometimes my kids draw badges/nametags and we make them
into stickers so they can wear them all day. The last ones said "I'm a
fun kid!" Somewhat redundant since you can't be in their presence for
more than a couple minutes without realizing how fun they are, but they
enjoyed drawing and wearing them.
Alyson
Karen wrote, in part=-=-=You would NOT BELIEVE the cool equipment they
have in teacher's lounges
these days! Giant laminating machines and a copier that will take
construction
paper and a die cut system that lets you make all the little fish name
tags
you want! A row of paper cutters of every kind! The old inkie ditto
machine
is a thing of the past! =-=-=
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
stickers as well as laminate. It comes in several sizes - the largest
can do 8-1/2" wide paper, I think. There are home die cut machines from
Sizzix. You can get dies for alphabet letters, shapes, gift tags...
Both can be found at Micheals/AC Moore/Joann's or other craft stores or
occasionally on home shopping channels. In our area both Micheals and
ACMoore have 40% off coupons regularly and accept competitor coupons so
the cost can be cut considerably. You don't have to think of them as
schooly - call them art supplies :-) I use dies and stickers in my
scrapbooks. Sometimes my kids draw badges/nametags and we make them
into stickers so they can wear them all day. The last ones said "I'm a
fun kid!" Somewhat redundant since you can't be in their presence for
more than a couple minutes without realizing how fun they are, but they
enjoyed drawing and wearing them.
Alyson
Karen wrote, in part=-=-=You would NOT BELIEVE the cool equipment they
have in teacher's lounges
these days! Giant laminating machines and a copier that will take
construction
paper and a die cut system that lets you make all the little fish name
tags
you want! A row of paper cutters of every kind! The old inkie ditto
machine
is a thing of the past! =-=-=
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
scookeafan
--- In [email protected], "AlysonRR" <AlysonRR@c...> wrote:
the little "X" one to make small stickers, the larger sticker maker,
the 8 & 1/2" one and the 12" one. I love my toys ;-) The 40% off
coupons are a real budget-saver!
I really want a die-cut machine AND a binding machine of my own, but
I'm showing a little restraint for once, at least for now. ;-)
Sherry
>I LOVE my Xyrons! I actually have 4 of them (she admits sheepishly) -
> There's a home laminating machine called the Xyron which will make
> stickers as well as laminate.
the little "X" one to make small stickers, the larger sticker maker,
the 8 & 1/2" one and the 12" one. I love my toys ;-) The 40% off
coupons are a real budget-saver!
I really want a die-cut machine AND a binding machine of my own, but
I'm showing a little restraint for once, at least for now. ;-)
Sherry
julie w
tuckervill2@... wrote:
Its funny, some of the kids I work with have no idea what we talk about
when we mention things like rotery phones and smelling the ditto machine
copies when your teacher passed them out.
Things like this, bifocals and boils have a way of making one feel old.
--
Julie W
http://jwoolfolk.typepad.com/theothermother/
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.1 - Release Date: 3/9/2005
> The old inkie ditto machinePlus the copies don't have that lovely smell.....
>is a thing of the past!
>
Its funny, some of the kids I work with have no idea what we talk about
when we mention things like rotery phones and smelling the ditto machine
copies when your teacher passed them out.
Things like this, bifocals and boils have a way of making one feel old.
--
Julie W
http://jwoolfolk.typepad.com/theothermother/
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.1 - Release Date: 3/9/2005
Julie Hiniker
uhhhh oops
I didn't show any restraint then. I have the binder and would not live
without it now! I only have one xyron-the 8.5 x11 but LOVE it. My mom bought
the sizzic die cut and we take turns buying the dies. So far I've used a
bunch and she cut out a word for one scrapbook page.
All this is fun for scrappin and schooling!
I didn't show any restraint then. I have the binder and would not live
without it now! I only have one xyron-the 8.5 x11 but LOVE it. My mom bought
the sizzic die cut and we take turns buying the dies. So far I've used a
bunch and she cut out a word for one scrapbook page.
All this is fun for scrappin and schooling!
----- Original Message -----
From: "scookeafan" <sherrycook@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 3:40 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Laminating and Die Cut machines
>
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "AlysonRR" <AlysonRR@c...> wrote:
>>
>> There's a home laminating machine called the Xyron which will make
>> stickers as well as laminate.
>
> I LOVE my Xyrons! I actually have 4 of them (she admits sheepishly) -
> the little "X" one to make small stickers, the larger sticker maker,
> the 8 & 1/2" one and the 12" one. I love my toys ;-) The 40% off
> coupons are a real budget-saver!
>
> I really want a die-cut machine AND a binding machine of my own, but
> I'm showing a little restraint for once, at least for now. ;-)
>
> Sherry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
scookeafan
--- In [email protected], "Julie Hiniker"
<jhiniker12@p...> wrote:
this might be my next toy! My biggest problem with getting the die
cut machine is that I want the really big Ellison one with the
expensive dies ;-)
<jhiniker12@p...> wrote:
>live
> uhhhh oops
> I didn't show any restraint then. I have the binder and would not
> without it now! I only have one xyron-the 8.5 x11 but LOVE it. Mymom bought
> the sizzic die cut and we take turns buying the dies. So far I'veused a
> bunch and she cut out a word for one scrapbook page.Do you mind if I ask what binding machine you have? I'm thinking
> All this is fun for scrappin and schooling!
>
this might be my next toy! My biggest problem with getting the die
cut machine is that I want the really big Ellison one with the
expensive dies ;-)
Julie Hiniker
I have the hand one -COMBBIND C-50 from Office Max. It was about $60.
Mot scrapbook stores will let you use their die cutters if you buy the paper
from them.
julie in mn
wife to Pat and mom to the darlin" dozen
Mot scrapbook stores will let you use their die cutters if you buy the paper
from them.
julie in mn
wife to Pat and mom to the darlin" dozen
Paula Edwards
Hey,
I am new to this list and have been reading up on some of the latest
posts. I ran across this one and thought I'd chime in.
I love my Xyron sticker machine, and my kiddos do too when they can
pry it away from me-LOL-just joking!. I just keep an extra cartrige
around just for rainy days. I live in the Hickory, NC area and
there is a place for educators called the "Creation Station" and
anyone who educates can sign up and use their facility free (It is
funded by the State). The have the super-duper dye cut machine and
over 200 dye cuts. They also have laminating machines of all
sizes. They have a play station for little kiddos that can't or
don't want to help. We make an afternoon out of it sometimes. If
you live in the area, you can email me offlist and I can give you
more information about what they offer all educators.
PEACE, LOVE, HOPE, FAITH
PAULA
--- In [email protected], "AlysonRR" <AlysonRR@c...>
wrote:
I am new to this list and have been reading up on some of the latest
posts. I ran across this one and thought I'd chime in.
I love my Xyron sticker machine, and my kiddos do too when they can
pry it away from me-LOL-just joking!. I just keep an extra cartrige
around just for rainy days. I live in the Hickory, NC area and
there is a place for educators called the "Creation Station" and
anyone who educates can sign up and use their facility free (It is
funded by the State). The have the super-duper dye cut machine and
over 200 dye cuts. They also have laminating machines of all
sizes. They have a play station for little kiddos that can't or
don't want to help. We make an afternoon out of it sometimes. If
you live in the area, you can email me offlist and I can give you
more information about what they offer all educators.
PEACE, LOVE, HOPE, FAITH
PAULA
--- In [email protected], "AlysonRR" <AlysonRR@c...>
wrote:
>largest
> There's a home laminating machine called the Xyron which will make
> stickers as well as laminate. It comes in several sizes - the
> can do 8-1/2" wide paper, I think. There are home die cutmachines from
> Sizzix. You can get dies for alphabet letters, shapes, gifttags...
> Both can be found at Micheals/AC Moore/Joann's or other craftstores or
> occasionally on home shopping channels. In our area both Michealsand
> ACMoore have 40% off coupons regularly and accept competitorcoupons so
> the cost can be cut considerably. You don't have to think of themas
> schooly - call them art supplies :-) I use dies and stickers in mythem
> scrapbooks. Sometimes my kids draw badges/nametags and we make
> into stickers so they can wear them all day. The last onessaid "I'm a
> fun kid!" Somewhat redundant since you can't be in their presencefor
> more than a couple minutes without realizing how fun they are, butthey
> enjoyed drawing and wearing them.they
>
> Alyson
>
> Karen wrote, in part=-=-=You would NOT BELIEVE the cool equipment
> have in teacher's loungesname
> these days! Giant laminating machines and a copier that will take
> construction
> paper and a die cut system that lets you make all the little fish
> tagsditto
> you want! A row of paper cutters of every kind! The old inkie
> machine
> is a thing of the past! =-=-=
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]