He says "I don't know, I'm not sure"
Sylvie Martin
Hello everybody,
I need your lights about something I don't understand, with Tom.
I wrote here a few weeks ago, about watching tv when children want, I'm discovering "unschooling" slowly but surely... So, I try to change how we live at home, with more freedom for Tom and Lilou.
I was very happy, because here, things were going like some of you said, or like I read on articles. Tom can watch tv for long time, and going after, and doing other things. He's asking questions again, want to write things (normaly, he doesn't like it at all !). All those things he stopped one and a half year ago, because of pressure. He's enthusiastic again...
He's more "zen", somewhere...
But, now, there's something really disturbing and worrying for me. Now, for everything, he says "I don't know". For everything ! He doesn't know if he's hungry, he doesn't know if he needs to go to the toilets, he doesn't know if he's thirsty, if he likes that or that. It's really worrying, because he doesn't eat anything, because he doesn't know... Now, it's since about two weeks he's like this. And he's not playing with us on this topic, because it's something which is really making us so, so angry ! Can't he feel what are his needs, for his own body ??
Unschooling about all the life is new for us, but it's something we can deeply feel, it's not just a new recipe, or something like this. We really feel it's something "true".
I feel so angry about that ! So angry... what happens ? Is it this new little more freedom which is disturbing him ? Does he test us and our new vison of life ? Did some of you have the same react to new unschooling ?
Thanks for reading me
Sylvie (Eliott le Magicien, Tom le Héros (5 ans) et Lilou la Fée (2ans)
www.yourtes-tipis.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I need your lights about something I don't understand, with Tom.
I wrote here a few weeks ago, about watching tv when children want, I'm discovering "unschooling" slowly but surely... So, I try to change how we live at home, with more freedom for Tom and Lilou.
I was very happy, because here, things were going like some of you said, or like I read on articles. Tom can watch tv for long time, and going after, and doing other things. He's asking questions again, want to write things (normaly, he doesn't like it at all !). All those things he stopped one and a half year ago, because of pressure. He's enthusiastic again...
He's more "zen", somewhere...
But, now, there's something really disturbing and worrying for me. Now, for everything, he says "I don't know". For everything ! He doesn't know if he's hungry, he doesn't know if he needs to go to the toilets, he doesn't know if he's thirsty, if he likes that or that. It's really worrying, because he doesn't eat anything, because he doesn't know... Now, it's since about two weeks he's like this. And he's not playing with us on this topic, because it's something which is really making us so, so angry ! Can't he feel what are his needs, for his own body ??
Unschooling about all the life is new for us, but it's something we can deeply feel, it's not just a new recipe, or something like this. We really feel it's something "true".
I feel so angry about that ! So angry... what happens ? Is it this new little more freedom which is disturbing him ? Does he test us and our new vison of life ? Did some of you have the same react to new unschooling ?
Thanks for reading me
Sylvie (Eliott le Magicien, Tom le Héros (5 ans) et Lilou la Fée (2ans)
www.yourtes-tipis.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 2/8/05 10:12 AM, Sylvie Martin at eliott2@... wrote:
This is part of trusting. Trust that, for now, he really doesn't know.
Since this is new, his not knowing is a symptom of something else. Getting
angry at the symptom won't make the cause go away. (And it won't help him be
more happy!)
Some time after communism fell in the USSR some people in Russia said they
liked the old ways better because now they had too many choices. Under
communism they were taken care of and many decisions made for them.
Going from being told what to do next to being able to choose anything you
want can be overwhelming.
Help him :-) Give him two choices sometimes. Set up a trip and just go.
Instead of asking if he's hungry, ask him if he wants cheddar or provolone
on his sandwich.
*If* he's testing you it's because he is uncertain and needs the answer.
Trust that he's being honest.
If that's so I'd suggest you find some new things to do. Get out of the
house. Go places. Even little changes will help like exploring a new grocery
store.
Joyce
> Now, for everything, he says "I don't know".A big part of unschooling is learning to trust!
This is part of trusting. Trust that, for now, he really doesn't know.
Since this is new, his not knowing is a symptom of something else. Getting
angry at the symptom won't make the cause go away. (And it won't help him be
more happy!)
> Is it this new little more freedom which is disturbing him ?Any change is disturbing, even good change.
Some time after communism fell in the USSR some people in Russia said they
liked the old ways better because now they had too many choices. Under
communism they were taken care of and many decisions made for them.
Going from being told what to do next to being able to choose anything you
want can be overwhelming.
Help him :-) Give him two choices sometimes. Set up a trip and just go.
Instead of asking if he's hungry, ask him if he wants cheddar or provolone
on his sandwich.
> Does he test usPart of trusting is trusting that they're being honest in their needs.
> and our new vison of life ?
*If* he's testing you it's because he is uncertain and needs the answer.
Trust that he's being honest.
> Now, it's since about two weeks he's like this.Have you guys been inside a lot this winter? Or stuck in a routine?
If that's so I'd suggest you find some new things to do. Get out of the
house. Go places. Even little changes will help like exploring a new grocery
store.
> It's really worrying, becauseBring food to him. Ask if he'd like to do some cooking.
> he doesn't eat anything, because he doesn't know...
Joyce
Sylvie Martin
Getting
angry at the symptom won't make the cause go away. (And it won't help him be
more happy!)
******************************* Yes, I know that. But I can't control it. And I think I can't control it because I don't understand it. It's something bas with me that when I'm not understanding something with the children, it makes me feel angry.
Help him :-) Give him two choices sometimes. Set up a trip and just go.
Instead of asking if he's hungry, ask him if he wants cheddar or provolone
on his sandwich.
**************************** Yes, it's what we do. We don't ask him if he's hungry. We are just eating, and give him food when he says he's hungry. And he have several choices. It was ok, and now it's not anymore...
*If* he's testing you it's because he is uncertain and needs the answer.
************************ But there are lots of questions he's the one who knows... Like toilets, or hunger, or if he likes something or not.
Have you guys been inside a lot this winter? Or stuck in a routine?
************************ We live in mountains, lot of snow, he's skiing, going outside and play in the snow. But less than before, because he's watching more tv for the moment.
If that's so I'd suggest you find some new things to do. Get out of the
house. Go places. Even little changes will help like exploring a new grocery
store.
********************* When I go, he doesn't want to come. Before we change our vues, he didn't has the choice, but now, he has, and he prefer stay at home. And when we go to friends house, it's the same, if we stay 3 days, he will not eat "anything" for 3 days. Except candies.
Bring food to him. Ask if he'd like to do some cooking.
************* I do it. But he doesn't know...
Thanks for your answer, joyce
Sylvie (Eliott le Magicien, Tom le Héros (5 ans) et Lilou la Fée (2ans)
www.yourtes-tipis.com
angry at the symptom won't make the cause go away. (And it won't help him be
more happy!)
******************************* Yes, I know that. But I can't control it. And I think I can't control it because I don't understand it. It's something bas with me that when I'm not understanding something with the children, it makes me feel angry.
Help him :-) Give him two choices sometimes. Set up a trip and just go.
Instead of asking if he's hungry, ask him if he wants cheddar or provolone
on his sandwich.
**************************** Yes, it's what we do. We don't ask him if he's hungry. We are just eating, and give him food when he says he's hungry. And he have several choices. It was ok, and now it's not anymore...
*If* he's testing you it's because he is uncertain and needs the answer.
************************ But there are lots of questions he's the one who knows... Like toilets, or hunger, or if he likes something or not.
Have you guys been inside a lot this winter? Or stuck in a routine?
************************ We live in mountains, lot of snow, he's skiing, going outside and play in the snow. But less than before, because he's watching more tv for the moment.
If that's so I'd suggest you find some new things to do. Get out of the
house. Go places. Even little changes will help like exploring a new grocery
store.
********************* When I go, he doesn't want to come. Before we change our vues, he didn't has the choice, but now, he has, and he prefer stay at home. And when we go to friends house, it's the same, if we stay 3 days, he will not eat "anything" for 3 days. Except candies.
Bring food to him. Ask if he'd like to do some cooking.
************* I do it. But he doesn't know...
Thanks for your answer, joyce
Sylvie (Eliott le Magicien, Tom le Héros (5 ans) et Lilou la Fée (2ans)
www.yourtes-tipis.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Fetteroll
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 5:05 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] He says "I don't know, I'm not sure"
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On Feb 8, 2005, at 8:05 AM, Fetteroll wrote:
stop asking him so many questions. If he doesn't WANT the fruit and
cheese, he can say so (I guess that means he 'knows.')
I think he feels pressured to make too many choices for himself and
that scares him.
But - I'm more worried about why you'd be angry with him over it -
sounds like it is because he's not living up to YOUR ideal of what
unschooling ought to be like.
-pam
> Help him :-) Give him two choices sometimes. Set up a trip and just go.Or just make a plate of fruit and cheese and put it in front of him -
> Instead of asking if he's hungry, ask him if he wants cheddar or
> provolone
> on his sandwich.
stop asking him so many questions. If he doesn't WANT the fruit and
cheese, he can say so (I guess that means he 'knows.')
I think he feels pressured to make too many choices for himself and
that scares him.
But - I'm more worried about why you'd be angry with him over it -
sounds like it is because he's not living up to YOUR ideal of what
unschooling ought to be like.
-pam
Pam Sorooshian
On Feb 8, 2005, at 8:17 AM, Sylvie Martin wrote:
If he's hungry, he'll eat. Don't ASK him if he's hungry. Have food
available so he can eat if he wants to eat.
Why would you be asking him if he needs to go to the toilet? It is
there - he'll go if he needs to. Why are you having a conversation
about it?
And why does he need to tell you if he likes something or not?
I really honestly think that a lot of "I don't knows" is very often a
way of telling the other person to lay off - he's telling you that
you're interfering too much, that you don't need to know what he's
feeling or thinking all the time.
-pam
> ************************ But there are lots of questions he's the oneWhy does he have to answer your questions, though?
> who knows... Like toilets, or hunger, or if he likes something or not.
If he's hungry, he'll eat. Don't ASK him if he's hungry. Have food
available so he can eat if he wants to eat.
Why would you be asking him if he needs to go to the toilet? It is
there - he'll go if he needs to. Why are you having a conversation
about it?
And why does he need to tell you if he likes something or not?
I really honestly think that a lot of "I don't knows" is very often a
way of telling the other person to lay off - he's telling you that
you're interfering too much, that you don't need to know what he's
feeling or thinking all the time.
-pam
Sylvie Martin
I'm french so I think I wrote something wrong
Or just make a plate of fruit and cheese and put it in front of him -
stop asking him so many questions. If he doesn't WANT the fruit and
cheese, he can say so (I guess that means he 'knows.')
************************ We don't ask him any questions like this...
Why does he have to answer your questions, though?
************************* I'm not asking him ! Maybe the word "question" has an other meaning in english, maybe I would have write "topics" ? I don't ask him if he wants to go to the toilets, or if he's angry, or if he likes this or that. He says without question about me : I don't know if I'm hungry or if I want to go to the toilets....
If he's hungry, he'll eat. Don't ASK him if he's hungry. Have food
available so he can eat if he wants to eat.
*********************** Yes, it's what we are doing... We don't ask him if he's hungry. There is food available and he can eat what he wants.
Why would you be asking him if he needs to go to the toilet? It is
there - he'll go if he needs to. Why are you having a conversation
about
*************** I don't ! Really, I think I didn't wrote my mail well... I don't ask him if he wants to go.
And why does he need to tell you if he likes something or not?
************** He doesn't have to. It's just when he went somewhere, or something else, and I just ask if it was pleasant, something like this...
I really honestly think that a lot of "I don't knows" is very often a
way of telling the other person to lay off - he's telling you that
you're interfering too much, that you don't need to know what he's
feeling or thinking all the time.
************ That's the new thing at home : we don't ask him all those things anymore ! Before, we didn't so much, but sometimes, yes... But now, we don't at all...
This is the reason why I feel so lost... We try to not interfere anymore now, and it's now that he react like this...
But - I'm more worried about why you'd be angry with him over it -
sounds like it is because he's not living up to YOUR ideal of what
unschooling ought to be like.
********************** Yes, there is something like this I think, because we don't ask him anything of all those things you said, we try do let him do what he wants to, and he react like this...
If he had say those things before the changing, I could understand, because we were surrely too much of everything ! But why just now that we feel that "unschooling" is something so great..?
Sylvie (Eliott le Magicien, Tom le Héros (5 ans) et Lilou la Fée (2ans)
www.yourtes-tipis.com
Or just make a plate of fruit and cheese and put it in front of him -
stop asking him so many questions. If he doesn't WANT the fruit and
cheese, he can say so (I guess that means he 'knows.')
************************ We don't ask him any questions like this...
Why does he have to answer your questions, though?
************************* I'm not asking him ! Maybe the word "question" has an other meaning in english, maybe I would have write "topics" ? I don't ask him if he wants to go to the toilets, or if he's angry, or if he likes this or that. He says without question about me : I don't know if I'm hungry or if I want to go to the toilets....
If he's hungry, he'll eat. Don't ASK him if he's hungry. Have food
available so he can eat if he wants to eat.
*********************** Yes, it's what we are doing... We don't ask him if he's hungry. There is food available and he can eat what he wants.
Why would you be asking him if he needs to go to the toilet? It is
there - he'll go if he needs to. Why are you having a conversation
about
*************** I don't ! Really, I think I didn't wrote my mail well... I don't ask him if he wants to go.
And why does he need to tell you if he likes something or not?
************** He doesn't have to. It's just when he went somewhere, or something else, and I just ask if it was pleasant, something like this...
I really honestly think that a lot of "I don't knows" is very often a
way of telling the other person to lay off - he's telling you that
you're interfering too much, that you don't need to know what he's
feeling or thinking all the time.
************ That's the new thing at home : we don't ask him all those things anymore ! Before, we didn't so much, but sometimes, yes... But now, we don't at all...
This is the reason why I feel so lost... We try to not interfere anymore now, and it's now that he react like this...
But - I'm more worried about why you'd be angry with him over it -
sounds like it is because he's not living up to YOUR ideal of what
unschooling ought to be like.
********************** Yes, there is something like this I think, because we don't ask him anything of all those things you said, we try do let him do what he wants to, and he react like this...
If he had say those things before the changing, I could understand, because we were surrely too much of everything ! But why just now that we feel that "unschooling" is something so great..?
Sylvie (Eliott le Magicien, Tom le Héros (5 ans) et Lilou la Fée (2ans)
www.yourtes-tipis.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Pam Sorooshian
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] He says "I don't know, I'm not sure"
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Gold Standard
<<Now, for everything, he says "I don't know". For everything ! He doesn't
know if he's hungry, he doesn't know if he needs to go to the toilets, he
doesn't know if he's thirsty, if he likes that or that.<<
My image here is of an adult hovering over a child who's just figuring
things out, and needs space to do so. It sounds like you need to happily
live your life Sylvie and let him live his. One idea is to make statements
rather than questions, and then leave it at that. If you make a statement
like, "I'm going to make a sandwich. Peanut butter and jelly is my favorite"
then be quiet and make a sandwich. Kids tend to respond better to statements
when given time to think rather than to a barrage of questions. And if he
doesn't respond, move on. Have the food available, or even offer it to him.
Feed yourself. Enjoy the food and if you are inspired, say what you like
about the sandwich. If you lay off him and enjoy your own experience, he
will have both the space he seems to need and the example of you enjoying
life.
He is smart enough to not die of starvation. No kid has done that yet who
had food available.
you'll only add your junk to his space. Take a deep breath, love your son,
appreciate where he is right now, and give him nothing but positive, happy
energy. This alone will probably help him immensely.
Jacki
know if he's hungry, he doesn't know if he needs to go to the toilets, he
doesn't know if he's thirsty, if he likes that or that.<<
My image here is of an adult hovering over a child who's just figuring
things out, and needs space to do so. It sounds like you need to happily
live your life Sylvie and let him live his. One idea is to make statements
rather than questions, and then leave it at that. If you make a statement
like, "I'm going to make a sandwich. Peanut butter and jelly is my favorite"
then be quiet and make a sandwich. Kids tend to respond better to statements
when given time to think rather than to a barrage of questions. And if he
doesn't respond, move on. Have the food available, or even offer it to him.
Feed yourself. Enjoy the food and if you are inspired, say what you like
about the sandwich. If you lay off him and enjoy your own experience, he
will have both the space he seems to need and the example of you enjoying
life.
He is smart enough to not die of starvation. No kid has done that yet who
had food available.
>>because it's something which is really making us so, so angry!<<Sorry I don't see this. You don't have to get angry. If you get angry,
you'll only add your junk to his space. Take a deep breath, love your son,
appreciate where he is right now, and give him nothing but positive, happy
energy. This alone will probably help him immensely.
>>Can't he feel what are his needs, for his own body ??<<Yes. Trust this. Trust him.
Jacki
Sylvie Martin
Oh ! Really, I see that my mail was writen wrong ! My english is not so good... I really think that this word "question" can have other signification in french.
My image here is of an adult hovering over a child who's just figuring
things out, and needs space to do so. It sounds like you need to happily
live your life Sylvie and let him live his. One idea is to make statements
rather than questions, and then leave it at that. If you make a statement
like, "I'm going to make a sandwich. Peanut butter and jelly is my favorite"
then be quiet and make a sandwich. Kids tend to respond better to statements
when given time to think rather than to a barrage of questions.
*************************** Yes, sure, it's what we do. Exactly what we do... What we do now, since few weeks. And it since this time that he says "I don't know" without us asking anything !
and give him nothing but positive, happy
energy. This alone will probably help him immensely.
************************* Yes, I'm sure you're right... It's the reason why I wrote on this list, because I need more confidence about this... Because I was thinking that changing our minds, be more serene about that would be really great for him...
I hope everyone had understand what I mean now....
Thanks a lot Jacki
Sylvie (Eliott le Magicien, Tom le Héros (5 ans) et Lilou la Fée (2ans)
www.yourtes-tipis.com
My image here is of an adult hovering over a child who's just figuring
things out, and needs space to do so. It sounds like you need to happily
live your life Sylvie and let him live his. One idea is to make statements
rather than questions, and then leave it at that. If you make a statement
like, "I'm going to make a sandwich. Peanut butter and jelly is my favorite"
then be quiet and make a sandwich. Kids tend to respond better to statements
when given time to think rather than to a barrage of questions.
*************************** Yes, sure, it's what we do. Exactly what we do... What we do now, since few weeks. And it since this time that he says "I don't know" without us asking anything !
and give him nothing but positive, happy
energy. This alone will probably help him immensely.
************************* Yes, I'm sure you're right... It's the reason why I wrote on this list, because I need more confidence about this... Because I was thinking that changing our minds, be more serene about that would be really great for him...
I hope everyone had understand what I mean now....
Thanks a lot Jacki
Sylvie (Eliott le Magicien, Tom le Héros (5 ans) et Lilou la Fée (2ans)
www.yourtes-tipis.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Gold Standard
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 7:08 PM
Subject: RE: [AlwaysLearning] He says "I don't know, I'm not sure"
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Gold Standard
************************* I'm not asking him ! Maybe the word "question" has
an other meaning in english, maybe I would have write "topics" ? I don't ask
him if he wants to go to the toilets, or if he's angry, or if he likes this
or that. He says without question about me : I don't know if I'm hungry or
if I want to go to the toilets....************
Oh Sylvie, I think I understand now. It sounds like he is saying these
statements on his own...like "I don't know if I am hungry or if I want to go
to the toilet", rather than you asking him all these questions. If that is
the case, then it sounds like he is getting used to the freedom you have
given him. It can feel much easier to have all these decisions made for him,
and it can take quite a while to adjust to being the king of his own
universe. I like the idea given previously...do something new or different,
or bring out a game to play. You can offer ideas of your own into
unschooling, as long as you don't force it on anyone. Sometimes the kids
will want to do it and sometimes they won't. It seems like he may just feel
a little overburdened with making decisions and may appreciate you coming up
with some ideas. He'll get more comfortable with his freedom in time :o)
Jacki
an other meaning in english, maybe I would have write "topics" ? I don't ask
him if he wants to go to the toilets, or if he's angry, or if he likes this
or that. He says without question about me : I don't know if I'm hungry or
if I want to go to the toilets....************
Oh Sylvie, I think I understand now. It sounds like he is saying these
statements on his own...like "I don't know if I am hungry or if I want to go
to the toilet", rather than you asking him all these questions. If that is
the case, then it sounds like he is getting used to the freedom you have
given him. It can feel much easier to have all these decisions made for him,
and it can take quite a while to adjust to being the king of his own
universe. I like the idea given previously...do something new or different,
or bring out a game to play. You can offer ideas of your own into
unschooling, as long as you don't force it on anyone. Sometimes the kids
will want to do it and sometimes they won't. It seems like he may just feel
a little overburdened with making decisions and may appreciate you coming up
with some ideas. He'll get more comfortable with his freedom in time :o)
Jacki
Sylvie Martin
Oh ! Thank you ! I was despaireted that my mail was so missunderstood ! :-))
Oh Sylvie, I think I understand now. It sounds like he is saying these
statements on his own...like "I don't know if I am hungry or if I want to go
to the toilet", rather than you asking him all these questions.
****************Yes ! :-))
You can offer ideas of your own into
unschooling, as long as you don't force it on anyone.
********************** Yes, it's what I do. I propose things, I ask him if he wants to come when I go somewhere, I play with him a lot more than before.
It seems like he may just feel
a little overburdened with making decisions and may appreciate you coming up
with some ideas.
*****************Yes, I didn't let him all alone with all the dicisions, for all the day. We just start with unschooling like this, and we need to get use too ! :-)) It's just that now, we say yes when he asks something where we were saying "no" before, because we thought about this. For the rest, I continue to propose things, and I don't mind if he says "no", like I was before knowing much about unschooling.
It's a big changing but not so much. Just "yes" instead of "no".
Thanks a lot
Sylvie (Eliott le Magicien, Tom le Héros (5 ans) et Lilou la Fée (2ans)
www.yourtes-tipis.com
Oh Sylvie, I think I understand now. It sounds like he is saying these
statements on his own...like "I don't know if I am hungry or if I want to go
to the toilet", rather than you asking him all these questions.
****************Yes ! :-))
You can offer ideas of your own into
unschooling, as long as you don't force it on anyone.
********************** Yes, it's what I do. I propose things, I ask him if he wants to come when I go somewhere, I play with him a lot more than before.
It seems like he may just feel
a little overburdened with making decisions and may appreciate you coming up
with some ideas.
*****************Yes, I didn't let him all alone with all the dicisions, for all the day. We just start with unschooling like this, and we need to get use too ! :-)) It's just that now, we say yes when he asks something where we were saying "no" before, because we thought about this. For the rest, I continue to propose things, and I don't mind if he says "no", like I was before knowing much about unschooling.
It's a big changing but not so much. Just "yes" instead of "no".
Thanks a lot
Sylvie (Eliott le Magicien, Tom le Héros (5 ans) et Lilou la Fée (2ans)
www.yourtes-tipis.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Gold Standard
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 7:29 PM
Subject: RE: [AlwaysLearning] He says "I don't know, I'm not sure"
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/8/05 8:55:37 AM, eliott2@... writes:
<< And he's not playing with us on this topic, because it's something which
is really making us so, so angry ! Can't he feel what are his needs, for his
own body ?? >>
Why is his body making you angry?
If he doesn't know, he doesn't know.
An easier question than "Are you hungry?" is "Do you want some grapes?"
And why do you care if he's hungry anyway? If he IS hungry, I'm sure he'll
know. And if he's not hungry, don't try to feed him.
If food is available to him when he wants to eat, he shouldn't need to decide
and declare whether he's hungry at all steps along the way.
-=- I feel so angry about that ! So angry... what happens ? Is it this new
little more freedom which is disturbing him ?-=-
I'm surprised at your anger. Were you used to telling him when to eat and go
to the bathroom, so it bothers you that he's not telling you when to tell him
to, or not reporting to you so you can provide food or bathrooms?
Maybe he is just trying to decide what real "hungry" feels like, and so he
doesn't know the answer to your question. Let him not know. You can't make
him know. Maybe he's just simply being honest, that he's not sure.
Maybe he's getting old enough that he doesn't want your involvement so much
anymore in whether he needs the toilet or not.
Put food out and when he's hungry he will eat.
Also, maybe he has some slight illness and honestly isn't hungry. Maybe his
body is letting the germs or whatever pass through and meanwhile he's NOT
hungry. That has happened to me lots of times.
Sandra
<< And he's not playing with us on this topic, because it's something which
is really making us so, so angry ! Can't he feel what are his needs, for his
own body ?? >>
Why is his body making you angry?
If he doesn't know, he doesn't know.
An easier question than "Are you hungry?" is "Do you want some grapes?"
And why do you care if he's hungry anyway? If he IS hungry, I'm sure he'll
know. And if he's not hungry, don't try to feed him.
If food is available to him when he wants to eat, he shouldn't need to decide
and declare whether he's hungry at all steps along the way.
-=- I feel so angry about that ! So angry... what happens ? Is it this new
little more freedom which is disturbing him ?-=-
I'm surprised at your anger. Were you used to telling him when to eat and go
to the bathroom, so it bothers you that he's not telling you when to tell him
to, or not reporting to you so you can provide food or bathrooms?
Maybe he is just trying to decide what real "hungry" feels like, and so he
doesn't know the answer to your question. Let him not know. You can't make
him know. Maybe he's just simply being honest, that he's not sure.
Maybe he's getting old enough that he doesn't want your involvement so much
anymore in whether he needs the toilet or not.
Put food out and when he's hungry he will eat.
Also, maybe he has some slight illness and honestly isn't hungry. Maybe his
body is letting the germs or whatever pass through and meanwhile he's NOT
hungry. That has happened to me lots of times.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/8/05 9:47:28 AM, eliott2@... writes:
<< Yes, I know that. But I can't control it. >>
If you n't learn to control your responses to your children's normal be
Zhaviors, unschooling might not be best for them.
You MUST learn to control your anger.
Breathing deep breaths helps. Looking at the sky, breathing slowly, thinking
lovely thoughts can help. Smelling your baby's head can help. Looking at
photos from when they were infants will help. Finding some things to say to
yourself about peace and joy and love might help.
Telling yourself and all of us that you can't help it will not help.
-=*If* he's testing you it's because he is uncertain and needs the answer.
************************ But there are lots of questions he's the one who
knows... -=-
And if he's the only one who NEEDS to know, maybe it's none of your business.
Let him have more privacy, maybe.
When you go to visit friends, maybe take some of the foods he likes best at
home in case he gets hungry but doesn't like food cooked at other people's
houses. When I was little, I had a hard time with sandwiches that had any
unfamiliar bread or spreads. I couldn't eat eggs cooked at other houses because they
tasted funny. I grew out of it, but I was maybe fifteen years old before
that went away.
Sandra
<< Yes, I know that. But I can't control it. >>
If you n't learn to control your responses to your children's normal be
Zhaviors, unschooling might not be best for them.
You MUST learn to control your anger.
Breathing deep breaths helps. Looking at the sky, breathing slowly, thinking
lovely thoughts can help. Smelling your baby's head can help. Looking at
photos from when they were infants will help. Finding some things to say to
yourself about peace and joy and love might help.
Telling yourself and all of us that you can't help it will not help.
-=*If* he's testing you it's because he is uncertain and needs the answer.
************************ But there are lots of questions he's the one who
knows... -=-
And if he's the only one who NEEDS to know, maybe it's none of your business.
Let him have more privacy, maybe.
When you go to visit friends, maybe take some of the foods he likes best at
home in case he gets hungry but doesn't like food cooked at other people's
houses. When I was little, I had a hard time with sandwiches that had any
unfamiliar bread or spreads. I couldn't eat eggs cooked at other houses because they
tasted funny. I grew out of it, but I was maybe fifteen years old before
that went away.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/8/05 11:33:39 AM, eliott2@... writes:
<< And it since this time that he says "I don't know" without us asking
anything ! >>
Oh!
Maybe he wants you to talk to him about what "hungry" feels like or what the
various symptoms of needing the toilet might be before you get to the "HAVE TO
GO NOW!
moment.
Holly used to ask me, whens he was already about nine years old, about what
it felt like to be sleepy, and how do people fall asleep. She takes a long
time to go to sleep, but until we discussed it I didn't know she didn't realize
that to try to go to sleep, people close their eyes and breathe shallowly.
I remember saying some things that I thought she would already know, like "If
it feels better to lie down than to sit up, you're probably sleepy." That's
the kind of conversation she really wanted, the discussion of what kinds of
signals or symptoms people considered to be "sleepy."
So maybe Tom wants you to say "If food doesn't look good, you're probably not
hungry," or "sometimes when people are really hungry their stomachs make
little noises."
Sandra
<< And it since this time that he says "I don't know" without us asking
anything ! >>
Oh!
Maybe he wants you to talk to him about what "hungry" feels like or what the
various symptoms of needing the toilet might be before you get to the "HAVE TO
GO NOW!
moment.
Holly used to ask me, whens he was already about nine years old, about what
it felt like to be sleepy, and how do people fall asleep. She takes a long
time to go to sleep, but until we discussed it I didn't know she didn't realize
that to try to go to sleep, people close their eyes and breathe shallowly.
I remember saying some things that I thought she would already know, like "If
it feels better to lie down than to sit up, you're probably sleepy." That's
the kind of conversation she really wanted, the discussion of what kinds of
signals or symptoms people considered to be "sleepy."
So maybe Tom wants you to say "If food doesn't look good, you're probably not
hungry," or "sometimes when people are really hungry their stomachs make
little noises."
Sandra
[email protected]
I think Sylvie you are maybe using the word angry when you mean instead
something like frustrated? Not that you are mad at the child, angry at him, but
that you can't figure out what is going on and that bothers you, makes you feel
restless in your mind.
Maybe.
Deborah in IL
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
something like frustrated? Not that you are mad at the child, angry at him, but
that you can't figure out what is going on and that bothers you, makes you feel
restless in your mind.
Maybe.
Deborah in IL
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
J. Stauffer
<<<But, now, there's something really disturbing and worrying for me. Now,
for everything, he says "I don't know". For everything ! He doesn't know if
he's hungry, he doesn't know if he needs to go to the toilets, he doesn't
know if he's thirsty, if he likes that or that. >>>
Relax Sylvie <grin>. It is quite possible that your son is having to
re-sort how he feels about things. He is no longer simply reacting to
external restrictions but truly finding out his own feelings about things.
I know it can be infuriating. I tend to not have strong preferences about
most things, so when asked, will often respond, "Oh, I don't
care...whatever." Makes my husband insane but it is truly how I feel.
You might try, in your head, to change your son's words around. When he
says "I don't know", try to hear that he is telling you "I don't have real
strong feelings either way right now. But that might change later."
Julie S.
for everything, he says "I don't know". For everything ! He doesn't know if
he's hungry, he doesn't know if he needs to go to the toilets, he doesn't
know if he's thirsty, if he likes that or that. >>>
Relax Sylvie <grin>. It is quite possible that your son is having to
re-sort how he feels about things. He is no longer simply reacting to
external restrictions but truly finding out his own feelings about things.
I know it can be infuriating. I tend to not have strong preferences about
most things, so when asked, will often respond, "Oh, I don't
care...whatever." Makes my husband insane but it is truly how I feel.
You might try, in your head, to change your son's words around. When he
says "I don't know", try to hear that he is telling you "I don't have real
strong feelings either way right now. But that might change later."
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sylvie Martin" <eliott2@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 9:12 AM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] He says "I don't know, I'm not sure"
Hello everybody,
I need your lights about something I don't understand, with Tom.
I wrote here a few weeks ago, about watching tv when children want, I'm
discovering "unschooling" slowly but surely... So, I try to change how we
live at home, with more freedom for Tom and Lilou.
I was very happy, because here, things were going like some of you said, or
like I read on articles. Tom can watch tv for long time, and going after,
and doing other things. He's asking questions again, want to write things
(normaly, he doesn't like it at all !). All those things he stopped one and
a half year ago, because of pressure. He's enthusiastic again...
He's more "zen", somewhere...
But, now, there's something really disturbing and worrying for me. Now, for
everything, he says "I don't know". For everything ! He doesn't know if he's
hungry, he doesn't know if he needs to go to the toilets, he doesn't know if
he's thirsty, if he likes that or that. It's really worrying, because he
doesn't eat anything, because he doesn't know... Now, it's since about two
weeks he's like this. And he's not playing with us on this topic, because
it's something which is really making us so, so angry ! Can't he feel what
are his needs, for his own body ??
Unschooling about all the life is new for us, but it's something we can
deeply feel, it's not just a new recipe, or something like this. We really
feel it's something "true".
I feel so angry about that ! So angry... what happens ? Is it this new
little more freedom which is disturbing him ? Does he test us and our new
vison of life ? Did some of you have the same react to new unschooling ?
Thanks for reading me
Sylvie (Eliott le Magicien, Tom le Héros (5 ans) et Lilou la Fée (2ans)
www.yourtes-tipis.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Links
Sylvie Martin
Sandra
And why do you care if he's hungry anyway?
**************** Because he's so thin ! So thin !
I'm surprised at your anger. Were you used to telling him when to eat and go
to the bathroom, so it bothers you that he's not telling you when to tell him
to, or not reporting to you so you can provide food or bathrooms?
************** No, not at all... It's because before we start unschooling, he knew without us asking him, when he was hungry or not, he was going to the bathroom alone, without saying anything. This is now we say "yes" for other things like tv, or pc or eating in front of tv, or all those little things that we were saying "no" before, he doesn't know anymore for his body.
And I really think anger can't be control like this... And talking about it to all of you and to my friend at the phone helped me a lot. I feel a lot better with all the answers I had, and it helped me to stand back and see the topics with other eyes...
Maybe he's getting old enough that he doesn't want your involvement so much
anymore in whether he needs the toilet or not.
****************** I'm not involved anymore... He knew before, and he doesn't know anymore...
And if he's the only one who NEEDS to know, maybe it's none of your business.
*************** Yes, it's what I try to say. I know for a long time it's not my business.
Let him have more privacy, maybe.
************** That's what we do now... The "I don't know" came in the same time.
When you go to visit friends, maybe take some of the foods he likes best at
home
************** The thing is for the moment, he almost doesn't like anything, even what he loved before... Honestly, if I want to take something he likes, I don't know what... He really doesn't eat by now...
Maybe he wants you to talk to him about what "hungry" feels like or what the
various symptoms of needing the toilet might be before you get to the "HAVE TO
GO NOW!
************************** Oh ! I didn't think about that... Because those topics were not problems for him before... He knew when he was hungry or need to go to the toilets without us need to ask him at all... This is what is disturbing me... He knew before, and now he doesn't anymore... Can he forget because of more freedom ?
So maybe Tom wants you to say "If food doesn't look good, you're probably not
hungry," or "sometimes when people are really hungry their stomachs make
little noises."
********************** Yes.. I will try...
Thanks
Sylvie (Eliott le Magicien, Tom le Héros (5 ans) et Lilou la Fée (2ans)
www.yourtes-tipis.com
And why do you care if he's hungry anyway?
**************** Because he's so thin ! So thin !
I'm surprised at your anger. Were you used to telling him when to eat and go
to the bathroom, so it bothers you that he's not telling you when to tell him
to, or not reporting to you so you can provide food or bathrooms?
************** No, not at all... It's because before we start unschooling, he knew without us asking him, when he was hungry or not, he was going to the bathroom alone, without saying anything. This is now we say "yes" for other things like tv, or pc or eating in front of tv, or all those little things that we were saying "no" before, he doesn't know anymore for his body.
And I really think anger can't be control like this... And talking about it to all of you and to my friend at the phone helped me a lot. I feel a lot better with all the answers I had, and it helped me to stand back and see the topics with other eyes...
Maybe he's getting old enough that he doesn't want your involvement so much
anymore in whether he needs the toilet or not.
****************** I'm not involved anymore... He knew before, and he doesn't know anymore...
And if he's the only one who NEEDS to know, maybe it's none of your business.
*************** Yes, it's what I try to say. I know for a long time it's not my business.
Let him have more privacy, maybe.
************** That's what we do now... The "I don't know" came in the same time.
When you go to visit friends, maybe take some of the foods he likes best at
home
************** The thing is for the moment, he almost doesn't like anything, even what he loved before... Honestly, if I want to take something he likes, I don't know what... He really doesn't eat by now...
Maybe he wants you to talk to him about what "hungry" feels like or what the
various symptoms of needing the toilet might be before you get to the "HAVE TO
GO NOW!
************************** Oh ! I didn't think about that... Because those topics were not problems for him before... He knew when he was hungry or need to go to the toilets without us need to ask him at all... This is what is disturbing me... He knew before, and now he doesn't anymore... Can he forget because of more freedom ?
So maybe Tom wants you to say "If food doesn't look good, you're probably not
hungry," or "sometimes when people are really hungry their stomachs make
little noises."
********************** Yes.. I will try...
Thanks
Sylvie (Eliott le Magicien, Tom le Héros (5 ans) et Lilou la Fée (2ans)
www.yourtes-tipis.com
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] He says "I don't know, I'm not sure"
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sylvie Martin
I think Sylvie you are maybe using the word angry when you mean instead
something like frustrated? Not that you are mad at the child, angry at him, but
that you can't figure out what is going on and that bothers you, makes you feel
restless in your mind.
***************************** It was both... Angry and frustrated. I need to understand things... Maybe it's not a good thing, but I'm like that. I need to understand. And I'm sure it's with my chilhood too. Something about this is coming when Tom is reacting like that. My needs were not respected at all, and it's make it coming out. And I work hard on it, I'm don't let my anger without thinking about.. Tom is a master for that. Make us change on a good way, but it sometimes very hard for us and for him...
I feel better since I posted...
You're right. I can't figure out, and I'm frustrated.
Thanks
Sylvie (Eliott le Magicien, Tom le Héros (5 ans) et Lilou la Fée (2ans)
www.yourtes-tipis.com
something like frustrated? Not that you are mad at the child, angry at him, but
that you can't figure out what is going on and that bothers you, makes you feel
restless in your mind.
***************************** It was both... Angry and frustrated. I need to understand things... Maybe it's not a good thing, but I'm like that. I need to understand. And I'm sure it's with my chilhood too. Something about this is coming when Tom is reacting like that. My needs were not respected at all, and it's make it coming out. And I work hard on it, I'm don't let my anger without thinking about.. Tom is a master for that. Make us change on a good way, but it sometimes very hard for us and for him...
I feel better since I posted...
You're right. I can't figure out, and I'm frustrated.
Thanks
Sylvie (Eliott le Magicien, Tom le Héros (5 ans) et Lilou la Fée (2ans)
www.yourtes-tipis.com
----- Original Message -----
From: DACunefare@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 9:35 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: He says "I don't know, I'm not sure"
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/9/05 1:44:37 AM, eliott2@... writes:
<< And I really think anger can't be control like this... >>
Anger can be controlled.
If you examine your own childhood and then resolve to make Tom's the way
yours could have been and should have been, then when you do something sweet for
him you do it for him and for the baby-you, the memory of your childhood, too.
-=-Honestly, if I want to take something he likes, I don't know what... He
really doesn't eat by now...-=-
Is he healthy otherwise? Some people are just thin.
Some people, though, do have a medical problem. But those usually have other
symptoms.
Maybe you DO need to pay attention to when and whether he needs to go to the
toilet for a bit, if you're afraid he might be having a digestive problem or
some such.
Sandra
<< And I really think anger can't be control like this... >>
Anger can be controlled.
If you examine your own childhood and then resolve to make Tom's the way
yours could have been and should have been, then when you do something sweet for
him you do it for him and for the baby-you, the memory of your childhood, too.
-=-Honestly, if I want to take something he likes, I don't know what... He
really doesn't eat by now...-=-
Is he healthy otherwise? Some people are just thin.
Some people, though, do have a medical problem. But those usually have other
symptoms.
Maybe you DO need to pay attention to when and whether he needs to go to the
toilet for a bit, if you're afraid he might be having a digestive problem or
some such.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/9/05 1:44:37 AM, eliott2@... writes:
<< The thing is for the moment, he almost doesn't like anything, even what he
loved before... Honestly, if I want to take something he likes, I don't know
what... He really doesn't eat by now... >>
What about liquid protein drinks?
I don't know what to tell you in terms of France.
For here, I would say milkshakes or smoothies with protein powder. We have a
thing here called "Instant Breakfast" that's protein powder and flavoring to
mix with milk. And there are protein drinks at the grocery store.
Sandra
<< The thing is for the moment, he almost doesn't like anything, even what he
loved before... Honestly, if I want to take something he likes, I don't know
what... He really doesn't eat by now... >>
What about liquid protein drinks?
I don't know what to tell you in terms of France.
For here, I would say milkshakes or smoothies with protein powder. We have a
thing here called "Instant Breakfast" that's protein powder and flavoring to
mix with milk. And there are protein drinks at the grocery store.
Sandra
Sylvie Martin
Is he healthy otherwise? Some people are just thin.
*********************I don't know........ I'm so anxious now that I really don't know. Everyday, there is a new thing, and now we don't know what give him to eat. All things he likes before, he doesn't like by now... I don't know if it's something linked to new unschooling or not, I don't know...
What about liquid protein drinks?
******************* Now, we give him something natural, with vitamins, minerals things. He was drinking soya milk, a lot, but now, he doesn't anymore... I'm a little bit depressed at the moment. I will write you if something going better.
Thank you
Sylvie (Eliott le Magicien, Tom le Héros (5 ans) et Lilou la Fée (2ans)
www.yourtes-tipis.com
*********************I don't know........ I'm so anxious now that I really don't know. Everyday, there is a new thing, and now we don't know what give him to eat. All things he likes before, he doesn't like by now... I don't know if it's something linked to new unschooling or not, I don't know...
What about liquid protein drinks?
******************* Now, we give him something natural, with vitamins, minerals things. He was drinking soya milk, a lot, but now, he doesn't anymore... I'm a little bit depressed at the moment. I will write you if something going better.
Thank you
Sylvie (Eliott le Magicien, Tom le Héros (5 ans) et Lilou la Fée (2ans)
www.yourtes-tipis.com
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] He says "I don't know, I'm not sure"
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Hill
**
Everyday, there is a new thing, and now we don't know what give him to eat. **
Is it only when he is engaged in watching television that he doesn't notice hunger? We just eat in front of the TV frequently, but I don't know if that would be a faux pas in France.
(And I'm probably not even using the phrase with the exact right meaning. We do lose nuances in cross-cultural and cross-lingual expression.)
Betsy
PS My son would eat a lot less after a big period of growth, when his growing slowed down or paused for awhile.
Everyday, there is a new thing, and now we don't know what give him to eat. **
Is it only when he is engaged in watching television that he doesn't notice hunger? We just eat in front of the TV frequently, but I don't know if that would be a faux pas in France.
(And I'm probably not even using the phrase with the exact right meaning. We do lose nuances in cross-cultural and cross-lingual expression.)
Betsy
PS My son would eat a lot less after a big period of growth, when his growing slowed down or paused for awhile.
Sylvie Martin
Is it only when he is engaged in watching television that he doesn't notice hunger?
******************** No, it's all the day.. I think it's the opposite, he feels more hunger for the moment, when he's watching tv...
My son would eat a lot less after a big period of growth, when his growing slowed down or paused for awhile.
*******************It's very interesting. Tom didn't grow for months (he's very little), and he growed just the last weeks, suddenly..
Thank you Betsy
Sylvie (Eliott le Magicien, Tom le Héros (5 ans) et Lilou la Fée (2ans)
www.yourtes-tipis.com
******************** No, it's all the day.. I think it's the opposite, he feels more hunger for the moment, when he's watching tv...
My son would eat a lot less after a big period of growth, when his growing slowed down or paused for awhile.
*******************It's very interesting. Tom didn't grow for months (he's very little), and he growed just the last weeks, suddenly..
Thank you Betsy
Sylvie (Eliott le Magicien, Tom le Héros (5 ans) et Lilou la Fée (2ans)
www.yourtes-tipis.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Elizabeth Hill
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] He says "I don't know, I'm not sure"
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nellebelle
It can be difficult for parents when a child's body is not "average". There is a lot of pressure for all bodies to be "just so", rather than accepting the natural variations. Children often go through "thin" and "fat" stages as part of the natural growth process. For some these stage are barely noticeable and for others there are extremes.
My nephew, at about age 10, gained a lot of weight and had quite a large belly. I remember thinking, this kid is getting fat! Just a few years later he became very tall, lean, and broad shouldered. He needed that body fat for the period of rapid growth that was to come.
My two daughters have always been toward the thin side. They eat noticeably less than many of their friends. Which comes first? Are there appetites smaller because they are genetically smaller people? Or are they small because they don't eat as much food? I'll never know that for sure, but I do know that *I* can't possibly know for them how much they should eat. That is something they need to figure out. My job is to make sure that food is in the house and prepared for eating. Their job is to eat it, or not.
Mary Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My nephew, at about age 10, gained a lot of weight and had quite a large belly. I remember thinking, this kid is getting fat! Just a few years later he became very tall, lean, and broad shouldered. He needed that body fat for the period of rapid growth that was to come.
My two daughters have always been toward the thin side. They eat noticeably less than many of their friends. Which comes first? Are there appetites smaller because they are genetically smaller people? Or are they small because they don't eat as much food? I'll never know that for sure, but I do know that *I* can't possibly know for them how much they should eat. That is something they need to figure out. My job is to make sure that food is in the house and prepared for eating. Their job is to eat it, or not.
Mary Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
I had another thought about why Tom might be saying "I don't know." Maybe people are starting to say that to him (instead of "no" and "yes") more lately and he's experimenting with it. I have been told that I went through a period of saying "indubitably" instead of "yes" when I was five or so. Must've been obnoxious. I remember Marty when he was three or so saying "Maybe" instead of yes or no for a while. I think he was just trying it out.
Maybe "I don't know" is a place saver like "ummmm....." so that he can think. He's responded, but he's still waiting to decide what his final, definite answer is, maybe.
Sandra
Maybe "I don't know" is a place saver like "ummmm....." so that he can think. He's responded, but he's still waiting to decide what his final, definite answer is, maybe.
Sandra
Gold Standard
>>Maybe "I don't know" is a place saver like "ummmm....." so that he canthink. He's responded, but he's still waiting to >>..decide what his final,
definite answer is, maybe.<<
Someone I admire, and I can't think of who at the moment, quoted a study a
few years back that showed that boys between the ages of 3 and 12 can take
up to three minutes to respond to statements/questions, and that we should
ask our question/make our statement and wait as long as it takes for their
response. Girls had a similar but subtly different timeline. Sometimes I
think we can pressure our kids into a quicker response than they are ready
to give, without meaning to. I don't know if this is related to this
particular case, but Sandra's thought sparked that for me.
nellebelle
>>quoted a study a few years back that showed that boys between the ages of 3 and 12 can take up to three minutes to respond to statements/questions, and that we should ask our question/make our statement and wait as long as it takes for their response.>>>This would describe my 50 year old husband! I used to think he was ignoring me. He just likes to think before speaking. I tend to speak as I think, or think out loud, which is another way it feels to me. I can't always know my thoughts until I say them out loud or write them down.
Mary Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sylvie Martin
but I do know that *I* can't possibly know for them how much they should eat. That is something they need to figure out. My job is to make sure that food is in the house and prepared for eating. Their job is to eat it, or not.
Mary Ellen
************************* Yes, I think the same. That's my ideal. And all is happen at home at the moment learned me that I'm really new with unschooling, that even if I feel it very deeply, it's not so easy for us to live it... And I react exactly the same than Tom, I can see it... I can't stand any pressure, and if there is pressure, I stop.
Sylvie (Eliott le Magicien, Tom le Héros (5 ans) et Lilou la Fée (2ans)
www.yourtes-tipis.com
Mary Ellen
************************* Yes, I think the same. That's my ideal. And all is happen at home at the moment learned me that I'm really new with unschooling, that even if I feel it very deeply, it's not so easy for us to live it... And I react exactly the same than Tom, I can see it... I can't stand any pressure, and if there is pressure, I stop.
Sylvie (Eliott le Magicien, Tom le Héros (5 ans) et Lilou la Fée (2ans)
www.yourtes-tipis.com
----- Original Message -----
From: nellebelle
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 6:49 PM
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sylvie Martin
Maybe "I don't know" is a place saver like "ummmm....." so that he can think. He's responded, but he's still waiting to decide what his final, definite answer is, maybe.
****************************** Yes... I start to see better what's going on.. He's so intuitive ! Like I said on the other mail, he doesn't stand any pressure, for anything. And even if we try to "unschool", we are waiting. We are waiting for him react simply. But it's not simple. It's difficult, because we are waiting, even if we don't want.
I can see it so clearly today that I'm exactly the same. How can I be so blind !
Even if we don't ask him, we are waiting inside... And since he was born, he react to our "inside", and never to what we can say. Only what we have inside. He can read in our minds as if it was a book...
I'm sure now he's telling us "leave me alone!!!"...
And how he react is showing us how much we don't let him being free...
Some of your answers were difficult for me to hear, but I want to thank everyone here. Speaking about this helped me a lot to see more clearly what's going on.
Thanks
Sylvie (Eliott le Magicien, Tom le Héros (5 ans) et Lilou la Fée (2ans)
www.yourtes-tipis.com
****************************** Yes... I start to see better what's going on.. He's so intuitive ! Like I said on the other mail, he doesn't stand any pressure, for anything. And even if we try to "unschool", we are waiting. We are waiting for him react simply. But it's not simple. It's difficult, because we are waiting, even if we don't want.
I can see it so clearly today that I'm exactly the same. How can I be so blind !
Even if we don't ask him, we are waiting inside... And since he was born, he react to our "inside", and never to what we can say. Only what we have inside. He can read in our minds as if it was a book...
I'm sure now he's telling us "leave me alone!!!"...
And how he react is showing us how much we don't let him being free...
Some of your answers were difficult for me to hear, but I want to thank everyone here. Speaking about this helped me a lot to see more clearly what's going on.
Thanks
Sylvie (Eliott le Magicien, Tom le Héros (5 ans) et Lilou la Fée (2ans)
www.yourtes-tipis.com
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 7:23 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] He says "I don't know, I'm not sure"
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Angela S
*
<<<<<Even if we don't ask him, we are waiting inside... And since he was
born, he react to our "inside", and never to what we can say. Only what we
have inside. He can read in our minds as if it was a book...
I'm sure now he's telling us "leave me alone!!!"... >>>>>
My oldest dd is very sensitive to even the slightest amount of pressure from
me or anyone else. She totally shuts down. Simple things like Grammy
asking her to read a book to her when she was 5. (Of course, she wanted to
hear her granddaughter read and I had told her how well she could read.) And
then, when she wouldn't Grammy responded with, "fine, I didn't want to hear
you read anyway." Her feelings were hurt and she wanted her to feel guilty
on some level, even if she didn't know it. I don't think she's ever read
in front of my mother still and she's now 10.
When we were first legally home schooling is our state, I kept a few things
aside to put in a memory box to create a portfolio out of. It was just
things she had written on her own, some artwork, and some ticket stubs and
photos. When she realized that I was planning to show them to someone else,
she didn't write another word for a WHOLE year! It was a very long year
with me sweating what I would show in a portfolio. I found another route to
go and still be within the law. She is very private and really needs to
know someone before she shares her thoughts with them.
She is also like a barometer for respectfulness. If anyone does anything
that even remotely crosses the line, all her alarms go off. She has made me
a much better parent than I ever would have been if she hadn't been so
sensitive. I am thankful to her for opening my eyes. It has been hard
sometimes. I've even lost a couple friends because I put her feelings
first, but that's what happens when you grow sometimes and other people
can't see it or respect it. I don't have a problem with it anymore.
Keep listening to him and just lay off on any expectations. Play with him
like you would if you were his friend and not his mother. Keep at it and it
will get easier.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<<<<<Even if we don't ask him, we are waiting inside... And since he was
born, he react to our "inside", and never to what we can say. Only what we
have inside. He can read in our minds as if it was a book...
I'm sure now he's telling us "leave me alone!!!"... >>>>>
My oldest dd is very sensitive to even the slightest amount of pressure from
me or anyone else. She totally shuts down. Simple things like Grammy
asking her to read a book to her when she was 5. (Of course, she wanted to
hear her granddaughter read and I had told her how well she could read.) And
then, when she wouldn't Grammy responded with, "fine, I didn't want to hear
you read anyway." Her feelings were hurt and she wanted her to feel guilty
on some level, even if she didn't know it. I don't think she's ever read
in front of my mother still and she's now 10.
When we were first legally home schooling is our state, I kept a few things
aside to put in a memory box to create a portfolio out of. It was just
things she had written on her own, some artwork, and some ticket stubs and
photos. When she realized that I was planning to show them to someone else,
she didn't write another word for a WHOLE year! It was a very long year
with me sweating what I would show in a portfolio. I found another route to
go and still be within the law. She is very private and really needs to
know someone before she shares her thoughts with them.
She is also like a barometer for respectfulness. If anyone does anything
that even remotely crosses the line, all her alarms go off. She has made me
a much better parent than I ever would have been if she hadn't been so
sensitive. I am thankful to her for opening my eyes. It has been hard
sometimes. I've even lost a couple friends because I put her feelings
first, but that's what happens when you grow sometimes and other people
can't see it or respect it. I don't have a problem with it anymore.
Keep listening to him and just lay off on any expectations. Play with him
like you would if you were his friend and not his mother. Keep at it and it
will get easier.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sylvie Martin
She is also like a barometer for respectfulness. If anyone does anything
that even remotely crosses the line, all her alarms go off. She has made me
a much better parent than I ever would have been if she hadn't been so
sensitive. I am thankful to her for opening my eyes. It has been hard
sometimes. I've even lost a couple friends because I put her feelings
first, but that's what happens when you grow sometimes and other people
can't see it or respect it.
****************** I could have write those words, exactly the same !
Keep listening to him and just lay off on any expectations. Play with him
like you would if you were his friend and not his mother. Keep at it and it
will get easier.
****************** Yes, it's what I try to do now. And since those few days, I think it's going to be easier. And I'am reading "Playful parenting", it helps me, because I have difficulties for playing...
Sylvie (Eliott le Magicien, Tom le Héros (5 ans) et Lilou la Fée (2ans)
www.yourtes-tipis.com
that even remotely crosses the line, all her alarms go off. She has made me
a much better parent than I ever would have been if she hadn't been so
sensitive. I am thankful to her for opening my eyes. It has been hard
sometimes. I've even lost a couple friends because I put her feelings
first, but that's what happens when you grow sometimes and other people
can't see it or respect it.
****************** I could have write those words, exactly the same !
Keep listening to him and just lay off on any expectations. Play with him
like you would if you were his friend and not his mother. Keep at it and it
will get easier.
****************** Yes, it's what I try to do now. And since those few days, I think it's going to be easier. And I'am reading "Playful parenting", it helps me, because I have difficulties for playing...
Sylvie (Eliott le Magicien, Tom le Héros (5 ans) et Lilou la Fée (2ans)
www.yourtes-tipis.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Angela S
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 1:47 PM
Subject: RE: [AlwaysLearning] He says "I don't know, I'm not sure"
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]