mozafamily

Well, I'm not sure exactly how to state this query but I think we
may still be "deschooling" here, my ds is 6 and he "tried" kindy for
half a year Last year then he officially unenrolled at the mid year
point. Anyhow today I was was wondering how much stuff my kid
actually does for himself and how much he does because he wants
to "please" me - although I try to not give him any indication that
he doesn't please me, etc when related towards schoolwork etc. How
much planning do you do ahead with your child? Do you try and plan a
few activities for the week or month? Do you input that would he
like to study this topic this week or perhaps he would like to
continue such and such instead? I know some "unschooling" moms who
are doing timelines with their 6yo and everytime they come across
some bit of info the mom puts it on the timeline - so the child will
understand history. But me and my son have discussions about power
rangers and avalanches and if the power rangers were real... Or we
talk about scenarios for new Scooby do games and movies or we
compare kids shows like "kids next door" with real life events and
occasionally we play will a computer game like "totally spies" which
is so teenage girl geared but my ds just loves it although he has to
ask me to explain all of the make-up gadgets - but he still beats me
at the game! I think in fact our current "curriculum" must be
Cartoon Network! The TV and the .net as well!
Anyhow I'm rambling yet again. So having explained this, if my
son decides to practice writing (for example) do you think he is
doing that for me or actually for himself? Should I just wait awhile
and see if it keeps his attention, should I praise him for doing it?
That would be out of context for me because I wouldn't praise him
for playing a video game and that's learning, although when he does
sometime like clear the living room floor I might say someting
like "it looks clean in here, thanks for putting your toys away."
Any of you who have read my previous posts know I do have a problem
with TV - although I am TRYING to not let it show, I was just always
raised that there are so many other things you could be doing in
real life instead of watching others on the tube. SO especially
cartoons I grow tired of quickly, but I allow my son to watch all he
wants, and I try not to berate the TV too much, but I also try to
offer other things to do - which brings me full circle to the
beginning of my post, should we be planning more things to do, what
if all he wants to do he is already doing? And as far as I can
tell "strewing" isn't doing anything as far as I can tell, he's
holding tight mostly to Cartoon Network, so what am I doing wrong or
should I just lay off? Thankfully he's not compulsory age yet so I
don't have to keep the journal until starting July 1st and as you
can tell I am already confused about how I am going to do that.
Thanks Moza

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/28/04 8:25:45 PM, mozafamily@... writes:

<< How much planning do you do ahead with your child? Do you try and plan a

few activities for the week or month? >>

Outings I plan (always did) and visits with friends.
The "strewing" might involve waiting for a slow day and pulling out some new
crafts kit or science-ish toy or game or music theretofore unheard by them.

-=- Do you input that would he

like to study this topic this week or perhaps he would like to

continue such and such instead? -=-

No, never did talk about topics or study. I specifically did NOT want them
to study topics, but to do real things and pick up bits of connectable
information as they went.

Lately I remind Kirby every few days to look at the punctuation or math stuff
he's wanting to brush up on. He's been happily very busy with other things,
so I'm not pushing hard, but if I don't mention it at all, he might think I'm
sabotaging his stated intention to take classes. I *could* say if he really
wants to go he'll do that, but as he declared he wanted my help, I reach out
and say "hey" sometimes.

-=-I know some "unschooling" moms who

are doing timelines with their 6yo and everytime they come across

some bit of info the mom puts it on the timeline - so the child will

understand history. -=-

I have always fantasized having a big long timeline. We have a little
printed one of England (mostly pictures, from cavemen through iron age, etc.
England's history's kind of short. <g> Maybe that's why they steal everyone
else's so merrily.

I don't think time lines are a sin, especially if they involve costumes and
musical instruments and architecture! (Pictures, not names and dates.) We have
a chart of presidents up more often than not and it has a photographical
timeline along with the dates.

-=-But me and my son have discussions about power

rangers and avalanches and if the power rangers were real... Or we

talk about scenarios for new Scooby do games and movies or we

compare kids shows like "kids next door" with real life events and

occasionally we play will a computer game like "totally spies" which

is so teenage girl geared but my ds just loves it although he has to

ask me to explain all of the make-up gadgets - but he still beats me

at the game! I think in fact our current "curriculum" must be

Cartoon Network! The TV and the .net as well! -=-

Literature, comparison/contrast, philosophy, technology/engineering,
writing/storytelling, geology/science/history/health (avalanches). . .
Everything you're describing will be information he will build on for the
rest of his life.

More than that, you're building a relationship of trust and shared
involvement and exploration.

-=-So having explained this, if my

son decides to practice writing (for example) do you think he is

doing that for me or actually for himself?-=-

Can't see him from here, can't feel him from here. If he's having fun,
that's fun regardless of his initial motivation. If he's not having fun, won't
he stop?

-=-Should I just wait awhile

and see if it keeps his attention, should I praise him for doing it? -=-

"It" what? If writing keeps his attention?
I wouldn't praise him for doing it, but if he makes a really pretty "j" or
something and it honestly strikes you as nice, maybe mention that. Wouldn't you
do that for a friend who was practicing calligraphy or trying out a new pen
and some nice paper? "Nice J!" (I would.)

-=-although when he does

sometime like clear the living room floor I might say someting

like "it looks clean in here, thanks for putting your toys away." -=-

"It looks clean" would bother me, if my husband came through and said that.
"Thanks for straightening up" might not bother me, depending on the tone of
voice. If it sounded like "It's about time" or "Oooooh! You cleaned UP!" I'd
rather he just hadn't said anything.

-=-I allow my son to watch all he

wants, and I try not to berate the TV too much-=-

You're not berating TV if you say something, you're berating your son.

-=- I also try to

offer other things to do-=-

If you're offering them because they seem genuinely interesting or fun,
that's virtuous.
If you're offering something solely to try to lure him away from the TV,
that's not fun.

-=-And as far as I can

tell "strewing" isn't doing anything as far as I can tell, he's

holding tight mostly to Cartoon Network, so what am I doing wrong or

should I just lay off? -=-

Can you find book, magazines, CDs of music, card games related to cartoons he
likes? Maybe aikido-like you can go toward his interests instead of trying
to pull him away from them.

Sandra

Danielle Conger

====Do you try and plan a few activities for the week or month?===

I'm not much of a planner, honestly. If others are involved, we
plan--4-H, park days, LLL, stuff like that. Those are on the schedule.
But most of our life tends to be much more organic than that. I don't
like to feel over-scheduled; I don't want to feel obligated to do
something if our day just doesn't match up. By the same token, if we all
wake up and feel like going somewhere, I want to be able to go with that
spontaneous energy. I don't plan to grocery shop or clean or anything on
any particular day. That kind of scheduling just brings out the rebel in
me. *g*

====How much planning do you do ahead with your child? ====

Oh, pretty much none. Except for their birthdays and trips. Usually,
we'll go do something of the child's choosing on his/her birthday, so I
will ask in advance what they want to do for their day. For vacations,
same kind of thing. I'll do a bunch of research about fun stuff we could
do/see, then put the most likely candidates out for choosing.

In other terms, I'm not really sure how to read that question. Are you
thinking in terms of goals or subjects here? Like sitting down with a
child and talking about what they want to read or do in terms of history
or something like that? Maybe you're not--I don't know. But if that's
what you mean, even if you're doing it on a relaxed, vague time-table
like "this month," say, that's still not getting you to Unschooling. I
don't ever make plans like that with my kids. We just live, have fun,
follow our interests and the learning happens. I don't worry about
whether we'll do things on any given day because we always do things, kwim?

====Do you input that would he like to study this topic this week or
perhaps he would like to continue such and such instead?====

The only time I ask a question remotely similar to this is when we're at
the library. Then, I will ask if there's anything in particular the kids
want to look for while we're there. Sometimes there is, sometimes not.

The best strewing book I got the last time we were at the library was
one that hadn't even been looked at a time or two before: a book on the
folk art of whirligigs and weathervanes. Very cool. Lot's of beautiful,
glossy color pictures of really elaborate whirlygigs--the kinds of
wooden things that spin and move in the wind. There were swimmers, row
boats, big bands, chorus lines, Santa and his sleigh. Really cool stuff.
The back had some patterns for simple beginner vanes and whirligigs
sketched out on graph paper. Lots of great discussions came out of that
book, which captured the attention of my oldest (7) and my youngest (4).

====Anyhow today I was was wondering how much stuff my kid actually does
for himself and how much he does because he wants
to "please" me - although I try to not give him any indication that he
doesn't please me, etc when related towards sHchoolwork etc. ===

Well, we just don't do schoolwork, period. Pretty much nothing we do
even remotely looks like schoolwork, though my younger dd (5) has been
interested in the Bob's Books recently (though I suspect some of that is
dh's influence, grrrr). We do science experiments because dh is a
scientist and my kids love them, but they don't look like schoolwork.
There are no lab books (well, there were lab books that dh brought home
from work, but they never caught on), no lectures about the scientific
method, just genuine interest and curiosity and wonder--the real basis
for science before it was formalized into a method.

=====I know some "unschooling" moms who are doing time lines with their
6yo and every time they come across some bit of info the mom puts it on
the time line - so the child will understand history.====

We've talked about making a time line because we do a lot of
history--going places like Williamsburg or Plimoth Plantation--and Em
loves ancient civilizations. But we've never actually started it. I've
talked about making a chart listing the different gods/ goddesses from
Greece, Rome and Egypt, but not for Em, for me because I can't always
keep them straight. But, these more schooly things rarely materialize
and tend to be more fleeting thoughts than anything else. I think that
if I were to jump on them and start organizing everyone to do them, that
would probably start being more about me and some educational product
than about the kids. I suspect anyway.

====Or we talk about scenarios for new Scooby do games and movies or we
compare kids shows like "kids next door" with real life events and
occasionally we play will a computer game like "totally spies" which is
so teenage girl geared but my ds just loves it although he has to ask me
to explain all of the make-up gadgets - but he still beats me at the
game!====

Em loves doing this kind of thing. She's always describing the next Star
Wars movie that she'll make or whatever, and we love watching the DVD
extras where they show all the story-boarding that went into making the
movie. We'll do stuff like read a book, then watch the movie, look at a
comic book, looking at all the different adaptations of the story. We
don't do this often, but when we do it's fun. We've done it with
Sleeping Beauty, _The Hobbit_ and _Charlie and the Chocolate Factory_.
Right now, they're in the middle of _Stuart Little_ with dh, so we'll
rent the movie when they're done. I'd like to do it with _James and the
Giant Peach_, but that's just a vague someday kind of thought.

--Danielle

http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html

J. Stauffer

<<<<Anyhow today I was was wondering how much stuff my kid
> actually does for himself and how much he does because he wants
> to "please" me>>>>>>

Pay very close attention to his body language, facial expressions, etc..
You will know if he doesn't want to do something. Verbalize that for him
and out loud give him permission to tell you that he doesn't want to do
something. Then when it happens, take it with a smile and move forward.

TV----Does he prefer TV over other fun activities on a regular basis? If
so, he is either getting something he needs from it or he is still hearing
you berate TV in his head and is waiting for you to flip it off, trying to
gorge on as much as possible before you do. Either way, you need to watch
your own body language and let him be.

If he does not prefer TV over other fun activities, offer fun stuff to do.
A trip to the zoo, a picnic, build a bonfire, collect ants for an ant farm,
etc..

Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "mozafamily" <mozafamily@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 9:10 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] How can I tell if my child is doing what he wants
or I want?


> Well, I'm not sure exactly how to state this query but I think we
> may still be "deschooling" here, my ds is 6 and he "tried" kindy for
> half a year Last year then he officially unenrolled at the mid year
> point. Anyhow today I was was wondering how much stuff my kid
> actually does for himself and how much he does because he wants
> to "please" me - although I try to not give him any indication that
> he doesn't please me, etc when related towards schoolwork etc. How
> much planning do you do ahead with your child? Do you try and plan a
> few activities for the week or month? Do you input that would he
> like to study this topic this week or perhaps he would like to
> continue such and such instead? I know some "unschooling" moms who
> are doing timelines with their 6yo and everytime they come across
> some bit of info the mom puts it on the timeline - so the child will
> understand history. But me and my son have discussions about power
> rangers and avalanches and if the power rangers were real... Or we
> talk about scenarios for new Scooby do games and movies or we
> compare kids shows like "kids next door" with real life events and
> occasionally we play will a computer game like "totally spies" which
> is so teenage girl geared but my ds just loves it although he has to
> ask me to explain all of the make-up gadgets - but he still beats me
> at the game! I think in fact our current "curriculum" must be
> Cartoon Network! The TV and the .net as well!
> Anyhow I'm rambling yet again. So having explained this, if my
> son decides to practice writing (for example) do you think he is
> doing that for me or actually for himself? Should I just wait awhile
> and see if it keeps his attention, should I praise him for doing it?
> That would be out of context for me because I wouldn't praise him
> for playing a video game and that's learning, although when he does
> sometime like clear the living room floor I might say someting
> like "it looks clean in here, thanks for putting your toys away."
> Any of you who have read my previous posts know I do have a problem
> with TV - although I am TRYING to not let it show, I was just always
> raised that there are so many other things you could be doing in
> real life instead of watching others on the tube. SO especially
> cartoons I grow tired of quickly, but I allow my son to watch all he
> wants, and I try not to berate the TV too much, but I also try to
> offer other things to do - which brings me full circle to the
> beginning of my post, should we be planning more things to do, what
> if all he wants to do he is already doing? And as far as I can
> tell "strewing" isn't doing anything as far as I can tell, he's
> holding tight mostly to Cartoon Network, so what am I doing wrong or
> should I just lay off? Thankfully he's not compulsory age yet so I
> don't have to keep the journal until starting July 1st and as you
> can tell I am already confused about how I am going to do that.
> Thanks Moza
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/29/04 6:44:34 AM, jnjstau@... writes:

<< If he does not prefer TV over other fun activities, offer fun stuff to do.

A trip to the zoo, a picnic, build a bonfire, collect ants for an ant farm,

etc.. >>

I agree. And if he's the least bit worried about missing a favorite show,
record it for him. He might not even ever watch it, but you'll have taken his
desires into serious consideration and that's priceless.

Sandra

lwwh1967

mentioning the timeline made me think of my daughter.
when we use to follow a curriculum (glad those days are behind me),
we put a long sheet of white paper on the basement wall and would
write a date on it occasionally which she liked. so the other day, i
asked her if she would like to make a timeline notebook. she has so
much fun drawing dinosaurs, wooly mammoths, etc.
in the past, i would have tried to hurry it up so we could go onto
the "next" subject. now, we have spent hours on the timeline and she
is having so much fun with it. she asks me all the time to do the
timeline with her.
christy

kayb85

Thankfully he's not compulsory age yet so I
> don't have to keep the journal until starting July 1st and as you
> can tell I am already confused about how I am going to do that.
> Thanks Moza

What state?

Sheila

mozafamily

I live in Missouri.

I think I will just write down the stuff that we do and perhaps
not even "divide" it - but then someone may accuse me of not having
enough "hours" in each of the "required" subjects. I talked with
another person who I know is "unschooling" her 4 and almost 6yo
children and she says she's already logging "for practice". I said
when time came I may just log the 1000 hours required then stop
because I feel "logging" may take away from what I actually feel
unschooling is but she insisted that I should write everything down
so if the "throw out" hours as not being schooly enough then my son
will still have enough hours, so that got me thinking just WHO is
going to "throw out" hours? Unless someone turns me into child
services for truancy or neglect (please NO) then no one is ever
going to see these logs - The law just states that we keep a LOG or
some other PROOF that learning is happening and that learning
experiences are being offered, no where does it say the logs are
going to be reviewed or someone is going to "throw out" hours, urgh!
One of the reasons I don't like the idea of keeping a log - well
other than the fact that apparently Cartoon Network is a big part
our curriculum these days and I'm sure some reviewer would think
that was neglect, LOL - but it will turn everything we do naturally
into "School" terms, that writing a letter to grandma is working on
literature and handwriting skilles, that going swimming is physical
education, that grocery shopping is health, etc, etc. I'm sure I'm
luckier than most when it comes to doing the log because I have a
degree in education - so I know the language - but my own child has
changed my perceptions on life in such a big way, I don't want to
confine what he does into the "required subjects" - I just want to
let him learn what he wants!


--- In [email protected], "kayb85" <sheran@p...> wrote:
> Thankfully he's not compulsory age yet so I
> > don't have to keep the journal until starting July 1st and as
you
> > can tell I am already confused about how I am going to do that.
> > Thanks Moza
>
> What state?
>
> Sheila

mozafamily

--- In [email protected], "mozafamily"
<mozafamily@y...> wrote:
>
> I live in Missouri.
>
> I think I will just write down the stuff that we do and perhaps
> not even "divide" it - but then someone may accuse me of not
having
> enough "hours" in each of the "required" subjects. I talked with
> another person who I know is "unschooling" her 4 and almost 6yo
> children and she says she's already logging "for practice". I said
> when time came I may just log the 1000 hours required then stop
> because I feel "logging" may take away from what I actually feel
> unschooling is but she insisted that I should write everything
down
> so if the "throw out" hours as not being schooly enough then my
son
> will still have enough hours, so that got me thinking just WHO is
> going to "throw out" hours? Unless someone turns me into child
> services for truancy or neglect (please NO) then no one is ever
> going to see these logs - The law just states that we keep a LOG
or
> some other PROOF that learning is happening and that learning
> experiences are being offered, no where does it say the logs are
> going to be reviewed or someone is going to "throw out" hours,
urgh!
> One of the reasons I don't like the idea of keeping a log - well
> other than the fact that apparently Cartoon Network is a big part
> our curriculum these days and I'm sure some reviewer would think
> that was neglect, LOL - but it will turn everything we do
naturally
> into "School" terms, that writing a letter to grandma is working
on
> literature and handwriting skilles, that going swimming is
physical
> education, that grocery shopping is health, etc, etc. I'm sure I'm
> luckier than most when it comes to doing the log because I have a
> degree in education - so I know the language - but my own child
has
> changed my perceptions on life in such a big way, I don't want to
> confine what he does into the "required subjects" - I just want
to
> let him learn what he wants!
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "kayb85" <sheran@p...>
wrote:
> > Thankfully he's not compulsory age yet so I
> > > don't have to keep the journal until starting July 1st and as
> you
> > > can tell I am already confused about how I am going to do
that.
> > > Thanks Moza
> >
> > What state?
> >
> > Sheila

Nobody responded to this -- I would like input on how you do
your "record keeping", is keeping a log something I'm just going to
have to do? Some people I see make scrapbooks, how indepth are they?
Do they add stuff to the scrapbooks everyday? Thanks - Moza

Gold Standard

>>Nobody responded to this -- I would like input on how you do
>>your "record keeping", is keeping a log something I'm just going to
>>have to do? Some people I see make scrapbooks, how indepth are they?
>>Do they add stuff to the scrapbooks everyday? Thanks - Moza

I have a file cabinet with folders for each of my children. When they do
something that marks something important that we may want to remember, I put
it in there (with their permission). They sometimes put their own stuff in
there. If something looks "school-like" I may put it in there in case at
some point the big bad arm of the law comes knocking at my door (I've not
heard of people getting in trouble for their unschooling ways, but I still
have that on the back of my mind). It is my intention that at some point I
am going to make a portfolio for each of my children as a gift of history
for them with that material, probably in chronological order. If in the
meantime, I am forced to show someone what my kids do and how I keep track
of it, I may make them sooner.
Jacki







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