eriksmama2001

On another list, Walmart shopping has become a topic of brutal
parenting. As you all have probably seen, parents at Walmart are often
frazzeled, hurried and stressed. Apparently a homeschool mom SAW a
two year old being hit by a man with A BELT at Walmart, tried to stop
him and was threatened with arrest by a Walmart security officer.

I am trying to develop a plan for bringing this to public scrutiny. I
am going to write a message to Michael Moore. If Michael Moore can
get bullets out of Kmart. We can get violence out of Walmart.

Any suggestions for non-violent advocacy for children?

Thanks, Pat

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/28/2004 7:49:00 AM Central Standard Time,
scubamama@... writes:

Apparently a homeschool mom SAW a
two year old being hit by a man with A BELT at Walmart, tried to stop
him and was threatened with arrest by a Walmart security officer.



~~~

Sounds like the stuff of urban lengend. Link?

Karen


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/28/04 6:49:17 AM, scubamama@... writes:

<< On another list, Walmart shopping has become a topic of brutal

parenting. As you all have probably seen, parents at Walmart are often

frazzeled, hurried and stressed. Apparently a homeschool mom SAW a

two year old being hit by a man with A BELT at Walmart, tried to stop

him and was threatened with arrest by a Walmart security officer. >>

I hope she asked to speak to the manager, and that she called the police.

Personally, I despise Michael Moore's work, so I wouldn't want him on my side
on anything. He's odious. If he couldn't get it straight that school causes
school shootings, why should he do anything but blame George Bush for spanking?

Sandra

Gold Standard

"If he couldn't get it straight that school causes
school shootings, why should he do anything but blame George Bush for
spanking?"

Now I really don't want to see Bowling for Columbine. I was under the
impression that he DID see the school structure as the cause. How
disheartening, I was going to see it this weekend.
:(
Jacki

eriksmama2001

I wish that were so. I have forwarded the mom's personal response to
my questioning this report to Always Learning. As a child I was hit
with a belt as punishment. So, I never assumed it was an urban
legend. I was appalled that it happened to such a young child in such
a public place. The absurdity was that the woman trying to intervene,
rather than the man assaulting the child, was threatened with arrest.
I assumed that this level of violence was more isolated and at least
secretive. The public acceptance by the Walmart security officer is
dumbfounding to me.

Wendy Piesnitz of Life Learning magazine is posting a request for
resources in her outgoing newsletter. I have posted to Jan Hunt, who
has been a long time advocate of non-violence for children. And I
have sent a letter to Walmart notifing them of my campaign to get
violence out of Walmart. I have been on the nospank.net site which
seems to be a political effort to remove corporal punishment from
schools, home, towns, and businesses. (Evidently, 23 states still
allow corporal punishment in schools!) My goal is to incorporporate
(no pun intended) Project No Spank's "Kid Safe Zone" onto the
corporate conscious and doors of Walmart.

This was first reported by Patricia Tidmore at
[email protected] a homeschooling site for special needs
children.

Any further suggestions would be appreciated. I have posted this to
all my homeschooling sites. Please feel free to do so also.

Respectfully,
Pat


--- In [email protected], tuckervill2@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 9/28/2004 7:49:00 AM Central Standard Time,
> scubamama@e... writes:
>
> Apparently a homeschool mom SAW a
> two year old being hit by a man with A BELT at Walmart, tried to
stop
> him and was threatened with arrest by a Walmart security officer.
>
>
>
> ~~~
>
> Sounds like the stuff of urban lengend. Link?
>
> Karen
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

eriksmama2001

Well, Sandra you stumped me. I had to look up "odious" in my 1972
dictionary.

I have only seen Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine movie, so I
can't speak for his political bashing of Bush. In the movie, I (a
Libertarian) and my husband (a rabid Republican) thought that the
presentation of violence in America was objectively damning of both
political parties and corporate America.

I do think the idea of engaging the media for children's advocacy is
useful to change public acceptance of this horror. What other
suggestions do you have? We are all here advocating for a changed
belief system that respects children. But the blatant violence of
this needs more than on line discussion. Thanks for any ideas.

Pat

--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 9/28/04 6:49:17 AM, scubamama@e... writes:
>
> << On another list, Walmart shopping has become a topic of brutal
>
> parenting. As you all have probably seen, parents at Walmart are
often
>
> frazzeled, hurried and stressed. Apparently a homeschool mom SAW a
>
> two year old being hit by a man with A BELT at Walmart, tried to
stop
>
> him and was threatened with arrest by a Walmart security officer. >>
>
> I hope she asked to speak to the manager, and that she called the
police.
>
> Personally, I despise Michael Moore's work, so I wouldn't want him
on my side
> on anything. He's odious. If he couldn't get it straight that
school causes
> school shootings, why should he do anything but blame George Bush
for spanking?
>
> Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/28/04 9:58:28 AM, jacki@... writes:

<< Now I really don't want to see Bowling for Columbine. I was under the
impression that he DID see the school structure as the cause. How
disheartening, I was going to see it this weekend. >>

Maybe go see it to verify.

Matt Stone of South Park was the only one to nail schools for it. He was one
of many interviewed.

Moore is sure it's because of some combination of Bush, the existence of
guns, and a missile plant in Colorado. He's willfully ignoring simple fact to
create political propaganda. And he's a lying dipwad and is hateful to Charlton
Heston, who has always been a good husband, a good dad, a responsible actor
(researched the heck out of El Cid in the 50s before playing that part), and
who is altogether honorable, unlike this sleaze Moore.

His idea of problem solving is to cause way MORE kinds of missing-the-point
problems and in the confusion, someone might change something, he's not sure.
But meantime he will make money. Sleazy.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/28/04 10:32:01 AM, scubamama@... writes:

<< I have forwarded the mom's personal response to

my questioning this report to Always Learning. >>

You'll need to cut and paste it into an e-mail.
The list will reject forwards (I think).

-=-The absurdity was that the woman trying to intervene,

rather than the man assaulting the child, was threatened with arrest. -=-

That's sick.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/28/2004 11:32:06 AM Central Standard Time,
scubamama@... writes:

I wish that were so. I have forwarded the mom's personal response to
my questioning this report to Always Learning. As a child I was hit
with a belt as punishment. So, I never assumed it was an urban
legend. I was appalled that it happened to such a young child in such
a public place. The absurdity was that the woman trying to intervene,
rather than the man assaulting the child, was threatened with arrest.
I assumed that this level of violence was more isolated and at least
secretive. The public acceptance by the Walmart security officer is
dumbfounding to me.



~~~

Of course, I believe that children are hit with belts, even in public!

What I find unbelievable is that the woman who intervened was arrested.
There is more to the story than meets the eye.

Karen


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

eriksmama2001

Yes I would appreciate you forwarding this to anyone
you would like.And yes,it was walmart.It was the most
outraged I believe I have ever been.The child was
crying for a winnie-the-pooh baloon!And I witnessed it
personally.
~Pat in Al
--- eriksmama2001 <scubamama@...> wrote:

> Can I copy this to my other lists? This did occur at
> Walmart? You saw
> this yourself personally?
>
> I am livid that this occured.
>
> Pat
>

And the original was at [email protected] (I left out the
underscore space before, sorry.)

Pat



--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 9/28/04 10:32:01 AM, scubamama@e... writes:
>
> << I have forwarded the mom's personal response to
>
> my questioning this report to Always Learning. >>
>
> You'll need to cut and paste it into an e-mail.
> The list will reject forwards (I think).
>
> -=-The absurdity was that the woman trying to intervene,
>
> rather than the man assaulting the child, was threatened with
arrest. -=-
>
> That's sick.
>
> Sandra

eriksmama2001

She was "threatened* with arrest. I think I too would have been
beside myself trying to stop this man.

Pat--- In [email protected], tuckervill2@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 9/28/2004 11:32:06 AM Central Standard Time,
> scubamama@e... writes:
>
> I wish that were so. I have forwarded the mom's personal response
to
> my questioning this report to Always Learning. As a child I was
hit
> with a belt as punishment. So, I never assumed it was an urban
> legend. I was appalled that it happened to such a young child in
such
> a public place. The absurdity was that the woman trying to
intervene,
> rather than the man assaulting the child, was threatened with
arrest.
> I assumed that this level of violence was more isolated and at
least
> secretive. The public acceptance by the Walmart security officer
is
> dumbfounding to me.
>
>
>
> ~~~
>
> Of course, I believe that children are hit with belts, even in
public!
>
> What I find unbelievable is that the woman who intervened was
arrested.
> There is more to the story than meets the eye.
>
> Karen
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/28/04 10:48:21 AM, scubamama@... writes:

<< I have only seen Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine movie, so I

can't speak for his political bashing of Bush. >>

If you missed his political bashing of Bush, you missed the crux of the movie.

-=-I do think the idea of engaging the media for children's advocacy is

useful to change public acceptance of this horror. What other

suggestions do you have?-=-

Engaging the responsible media would be better than encouraging a crazed
troublemaker.

-=-We are all here advocating for a changed

belief system that respects children. But the blatant violence of

this needs more than on line discussion. Thanks for any ideas.-=-

Real parents could write letters to Walmart. The story could be taken to 60
minutes or 20/20 or somewhere. Newpaper columnists who are syndicated.

Write to Michael Moore if you want to.
My recommendation is that he's poison and there's a big world outside of him.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/28/2004 12:32:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
scubamama@... writes:

(Evidently, 23 states still
allow corporal punishment in schools!) <<<<
And Pat you live in one of them.
Pam G


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

eriksmama2001

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll write to those you suggested.

Pat--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 9/28/04 10:48:21 AM, scubamama@e... writes:
>
> << I have only seen Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine movie, so
I
>
> can't speak for his political bashing of Bush. >>
>
> If you missed his political bashing of Bush, you missed the crux of
the movie.
>
> -=-I do think the idea of engaging the media for children's
advocacy is
>
> useful to change public acceptance of this horror. What other
>
> suggestions do you have?-=-
>
> Engaging the responsible media would be better than encouraging a
crazed
> troublemaker.
>
> -=-We are all here advocating for a changed
>
> belief system that respects children. But the blatant violence of
>
> this needs more than on line discussion. Thanks for any ideas.-=-
>
> Real parents could write letters to Walmart. The story could be
taken to 60
> minutes or 20/20 or somewhere. Newpaper columnists who are
syndicated.
>
> Write to Michael Moore if you want to.
> My recommendation is that he's poison and there's a big world
outside of him.
>
> Sandra

eriksmama2001

Pam, Do you know of any means of changing this? Is there any
organization actively working on this locally or nationally?

Thanks,
Pat

--- In [email protected], Genant2@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 9/28/2004 12:32:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> scubamama@e... writes:
>
> (Evidently, 23 states still
> allow corporal punishment in schools!) <<<<
> And Pat you live in one of them.
> Pam G
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sondra Carr

Pat - what was she threatened with arrest for? I mean - what did they say
they would arrest her for? Did she punch the guy?

The only problem I have with this is that I don't think you can make a
national case out of one incident. If one manager at Wal-Mart did this and
then dropped it and Wal-Mart didn't support his decision then it's just one
idiot not thinking straight. But if there is a history of this - that's what
you need to find out here.





-----Original Message-----
From: eriksmama2001 [mailto:scubamama@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 1:00 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: OT: violence at Walmart



She was "threatened* with arrest. I think I too would have been
beside myself trying to stop this man.

Pat--- In [email protected], tuckervill2@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 9/28/2004 11:32:06 AM Central Standard Time,
> scubamama@e... writes:
>
> I wish that were so. I have forwarded the mom's personal response
to
> my questioning this report to Always Learning. As a child I was
hit
> with a belt as punishment. So, I never assumed it was an urban
> legend. I was appalled that it happened to such a young child in
such
> a public place. The absurdity was that the woman trying to
intervene,
> rather than the man assaulting the child, was threatened with
arrest.
> I assumed that this level of violence was more isolated and at
least
> secretive. The public acceptance by the Walmart security officer
is
> dumbfounding to me.
>
>
>
> ~~~
>
> Of course, I believe that children are hit with belts, even in
public!
>
> What I find unbelievable is that the woman who intervened was
arrested.
> There is more to the story than meets the eye.
>
> Karen
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nancy Wooton

on 9/28/04 9:45 AM, SandraDodd@... at SandraDodd@... wrote:

> << Now I really don't want to see Bowling for Columbine. I was under the
> impression that he DID see the school structure as the cause. How
> disheartening, I was going to see it this weekend. >>
>
> Maybe go see it to verify.
>
> Matt Stone of South Park was the only one to nail schools for it. He was one
> of many interviewed.

That was my favorite part of the movie! I love both South Park and The
Simpsons' portrayals of school. (Oh, and Daria, too; can you tell we watch
Way Too Many Cartoons at our house??? ;-)

Nancy

eriksmama2001

Sondra,

Thanks for your perspective. My goal is for Walmart to take a
proactive stand against violence in their stores internally and
publically. Perhaps naive, but it starts with one person trying to do
something.

Evidently the nospank.net site has free placards for posting a "Kids'
Safe Zone" with "No Spanking" and a big red circle with a slash
through it. I want to see these posted on Walmart doors. Walmart
needs positive PR. They have the "Code Adam" alerts but how could one
know if a child being hit within their store is not being abducted.
Walmart can choose to be an advocate for non-violence for children.
Or I'll try Target, Kmart, etc. next.

For the rest of the story, I forwarded your questions to the woman
who intervened for the child. My issue is a proactive stance that
Walmart can promote, not only the individual issue that occured at
their store. I think we could all reiterate a history of violence
toward children in public places, not just at Walmart.

I am looking for national contacts to facilitate my commitment to
this effort of public scrutiny of hitting children. Do you have any
suggestions?

Furthermore, I am going to enlist any constructive avenues to
changing this legally and socially "acceptable" practice.

Thanks,
Pat

--- In [email protected], "Sondra Carr"
<sondracarr@u...> wrote:
> Pat - what was she threatened with arrest for? I mean - what did
they say
> they would arrest her for? Did she punch the guy?
>
> The only problem I have with this is that I don't think you can
make a
> national case out of one incident. If one manager at Wal-Mart did
this and
> then dropped it and Wal-Mart didn't support his decision then it's
just one
> idiot not thinking straight. But if there is a history of this -
that's what
> you need to find out here.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: eriksmama2001 [mailto:scubamama@e...]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 1:00 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: OT: violence at Walmart
>
>
>
> She was "threatened* with arrest. I think I too would have been
> beside myself trying to stop this man.
>
> Pat--- In [email protected], tuckervill2@a... wrote:
> >
> > In a message dated 9/28/2004 11:32:06 AM Central Standard Time,
> > scubamama@e... writes:
> >
> > I wish that were so. I have forwarded the mom's personal
response
> to
> > my questioning this report to Always Learning. As a child I was
> hit
> > with a belt as punishment. So, I never assumed it was an urban
> > legend. I was appalled that it happened to such a young child in
> such
> > a public place. The absurdity was that the woman trying to
> intervene,
> > rather than the man assaulting the child, was threatened with
> arrest.
> > I assumed that this level of violence was more isolated and at
> least
> > secretive. The public acceptance by the Walmart security officer
> is
> > dumbfounding to me.
> >
> >
> >
> > ~~~
> >
> > Of course, I believe that children are hit with belts, even in
> public!
> >
> > What I find unbelievable is that the woman who intervened was
> arrested.
> > There is more to the story than meets the eye.
> >
> > Karen
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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Sondra Carr

That's pretty cool - actually. That's an awesome idea - it would force
Wal-Mart to take a public stance one way or the other - nice. I'd back that.




Ok - so if you contact your local Wal-Mart and ask them to put this in their
window and say you're backed by this national organization that supports
this - and then they turn you down - they'll probably send you up the chain
of command to regional etc.

You could get mega press on the fact that Wal-Mart says no to being a
non-spanking site. It would make it look like they value dollars over kids -
ooooh - nice nice press possibilities here.

Does the Nospanking site do this kind of thing or just offer the stuff?





-----Original Message-----
From: eriksmama2001 [mailto:scubamama@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 3:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: OT: violence at Wal-Mart




Evidently the nospank.net site has free placards for posting a "Kids'
Safe Zone" with "No Spanking" and a big red circle with a slash
through it. I want to see these posted on Walmart doors. Walmart
needs positive PR. They have the "Code Adam" alerts but how could one
know if a child being hit within their store is not being abducted.
Walmart can choose to be an advocate for non-violence for children.
Or I'll try Target, Kmart, etc. next.
I am looking for national contacts to facilitate my commitment to
this effort of public scrutiny of hitting children. Do you have any
suggestions?

Furthermore, I am going to enlist any constructive avenues to
changing this legally and socially "acceptable" practice.

Thanks,
Pat




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/28/2004 1:23:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Genant2@... writes:

Evidently, 23 states still
allow corporal punishment in schools!) <<<<
And Pat you live in one of them.<<<<

So do I.

~Kelly, in SC


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/28/2004 2:38:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

Write to Michael Moore if you want to.
My recommendation is that he's poison and there's a big world outside of
him.<<<

I can't stand him either.

I think the worst thing about his last movie is that he's opened the doors
for some serious propaganda.

And if you think the republicans aren't going to find themselves their own
"Michael Moore" in four years,....

I think the whole media package he's set out there is just plain dangerous.

~Kelly







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sondra Carr

Hmmm - I don't know if I can agree with that - it's not like the
republicans don't have their own Michael Moores out there using these
techniques and he's teaching them rhetoric 101. I think it's the other way
around - the dems are just starting to show their fangs after the obvious
ineffectiveness of peaceful and respectful debate with the likes of Ann
Coulter and Rush Limbaugh.

Not to mention Mel Gibson and Arnold.

I don't like a lot of what Moore does - but you have to hand it to him, he
knows how to do it.

Propaganda has been around since ancient Greece and surely before - Michael
Moore didn't introduce it - or even reintroduce it in this time. He's just
playing by the game of the day. I don't think I'd invite him to dinner, but
I'm glad he's doing what he's doing. Also - it's a great way to talk with my
kids about subjects like rhetoric, propaganda, half-truths, statistics, the
power of images and on and on.



-----Original Message-----
From: kbcdlovejo@... [mailto:kbcdlovejo@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 4:24 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: OT: violence at Walmart



In a message dated 9/28/2004 2:38:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

Write to Michael Moore if you want to.
My recommendation is that he's poison and there's a big world outside of
him.<<<

I can't stand him either.

I think the worst thing about his last movie is that he's opened the doors
for some serious propaganda.

And if you think the republicans aren't going to find themselves their own
"Michael Moore" in four years,....

I think the whole media package he's set out there is just plain dangerous.

~Kelly







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/28/2004 4:39:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
sondracarr@... writes:

Propaganda has been around since ancient Greece and surely before - Michael
Moore didn't introduce it - or even reintroduce it in this time. He's just
playing by the game of the day. I don't think I'd invite him to dinner, but
I'm glad he's doing what he's doing. Also - it's a great way to talk with my
kids about subjects like rhetoric, propaganda, half-truths, statistics, the
power of images and on and on. <<<<

I'm not saying it hasn't. It's just that it's going to become "common
practice" to use "documentaries" (and I use that term veeeerrrrrryyyy loosely) as a
vehicle for sway stupid people.

That's dangerous.

And the problem is that waaay too many people WON'T use the experience to
talk with their children (or each other) about those things! They'll accept it
as truth with absolutely NO thinking. Dangerous.

~Kelly







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

eriksmama2001

No, I love your idea and I am going to do it locally and from
corporate down. There are many ways to change old dogs, you know. I
will contact local tv stations and approach the local Walmart. How
can they say no? At least not for long. Thanks for the strategy.

Jan Hunt of the NaturalChild directed me to the originator of Project
No Spank. Evidently, he worked to remove 'canning' out of schools in
Australia. The nospank.net site has information on approaching your
local town council for support of non-violence of children in the
community and "your school". That sounds like a bigger project than I
can take on with a three year old for now. But anyone can receive the
placards and distribute them to local businesses and medical offices
locally and for bumper stickers for friends. Will you?

I have a friend who is active with attachment parenting in the
largest church locally and I am going to discuss the religious avenue
too. Jan Hunt directed me to the parentinginjesusfootsteps.org site
and their contact too. I am going to try to get them together.

Another site Jan directed me to was www.neverhitachild.org it is
emotional. I have contacted Randy Cox their director also.

Thanks for the ideas. Keep them coming.

Pat

--- In [email protected], "Sondra Carr"
<sondracarr@u...> wrote:
> That's pretty cool - actually. That's an awesome idea - it would
force
> Wal-Mart to take a public stance one way or the other - nice. I'd
back that.
>
>
>
>
> Ok - so if you contact your local Wal-Mart and ask them to put this
in their
> window and say you're backed by this national organization that
supports
> this - and then they turn you down - they'll probably send you up
the chain
> of command to regional etc.
>
> You could get mega press on the fact that Wal-Mart says no to being
a
> non-spanking site. It would make it look like they value dollars
over kids -
> ooooh - nice nice press possibilities here.
>
> Does the Nospanking site do this kind of thing or just offer the
stuff?
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: eriksmama2001 [mailto:scubamama@e...]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 3:26 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: OT: violence at Wal-Mart
>
>
>
>
> Evidently the nospank.net site has free placards for posting
a "Kids'
> Safe Zone" with "No Spanking" and a big red circle with a slash
> through it. I want to see these posted on Walmart doors. Walmart
> needs positive PR. They have the "Code Adam" alerts but how could
one
> know if a child being hit within their store is not being abducted.
> Walmart can choose to be an advocate for non-violence for children.
> Or I'll try Target, Kmart, etc. next.
> I am looking for national contacts to facilitate my commitment to
> this effort of public scrutiny of hitting children. Do you have any
> suggestions?
>
> Furthermore, I am going to enlist any constructive avenues to
> changing this legally and socially "acceptable" practice.
>
> Thanks,
> Pat
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sondra Carr

I agree - it is dangerous. But it also has always been around and it's not
the first time that films and even documentaries have been used for
propaganda. It's just a really effective example of it. And there are times
when you have to fight fire with fire. If the stupid people are going to be
swayed with rhetoric - and they will - I want them to be swayed to the less
dangerous ideology. I hate it as much as anyone, but until we catch up as a
species and teach the masses critical thinking, this will always be part of
the mix. Sorry - I'm kind of a pragmatic idealist - a frustrating type to
communicate with - I empathize.



Sondra









-----Original Message-----
From: kbcdlovejo@... [mailto:kbcdlovejo@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 4:50 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: OT: violence at Walmart

I'm not saying it hasn't. It's just that it's going to become "common
practice" to use "documentaries" (and I use that term veeeerrrrrryyyy
loosely) as a
vehicle for sway stupid people.

That's dangerous.

And the problem is that waaay too many people WON'T use the experience to
talk with their children (or each other) about those things! They'll
accept it
as truth with absolutely NO thinking. Dangerous.

~Kelly







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/28/2004 3:12:41 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
sondracarr@... writes:
And there are times
when you have to fight fire with fire.
=========

Integrity is more important than fire or fighting.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sondra Carr

I agree - but I think we disagree on our definitions of integrity. I admire
Martin Luther King and I also admire Malcom X. I don't think it's completely
clear when the pragmatic approach is more or less the choice of integrity.
It's one of those very difficult questions that has no real answer. Like the
character in Sophie's Choice - if you have to choice which one of your
children live and which one dies - what do you do? The hard-line idealist in
me says "Neither!" but then they both die. It's essentially a choice that
shouldn't have to be made. But it is. I have no idea what I would do - but I
do know it's not as black or white as we all sometimes feel it is.



Sondra







-----Original Message-----
From: SandraDodd@... [mailto:SandraDodd@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 6:06 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: OT: violence at Walmart



In a message dated 9/28/2004 3:12:41 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
sondracarr@... writes:
And there are times
when you have to fight fire with fire.
=========

Integrity is more important than fire or fighting.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/28/2004 2:51:25 PM Central Standard Time,
sondracarr@... writes:

Ok - so if you contact your local Wal-Mart and ask them to put this in their
window and say you're backed by this national organization that supports
this - and then they turn you down - they'll probably send you up the chain
of command to regional etc.



~~~

Wal-Mart General Offices
1821 South 8th Street
Bentonville, AR
479-621-8596

Looked it up in my local phone book.

Karen



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/28/2004 4:12:47 PM Central Standard Time,
sondracarr@... writes:

If the stupid people are going to be
swayed with rhetoric - and they will - I want them to be swayed to the less
dangerous ideology


~~~

Many of them are getting it in church on Sunday mornings, already.

_http://www.swtimes.com/archive/2004/July/23/news/church_politics.html_
(http://www.swtimes.com/archive/2004/July/23/news/church_politics.html)

Karen


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

The question was whether Michael Moore would be the best tool for keeping
little children from being spanked in WalMart.

I, personally, individually, don't think so.

You personally can state otherwise.

I, personally, think that as there are MANY other avenues there's no sense
getting an unscrupulous weiner involved in ANY homeschooling or parenting issues.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]