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In a message dated 9/20/2004 2:58:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

really don't want to go through it again.
Does anyone here know where the last discussion on TCS (Taking Children
Seriously) and NCP (non-coercive parenting) was?<<<
I couldn't find the last discussion but here is something to get you started:

TCS web site: _http://www.takingchildrenseriously.com/_
(http://www.takingchildrenseriously.com/) On the web page you can also get to their e mail
list. It is, like Sandra said, a list that talks in hypotheticals and
discusses theory etc. You are discouraged from talking about specific people or
families.

Here is another site that talks about NCP:
_http://www.autonomouschild.co.uk/_ (http://www.autonomouschild.co.uk/) It is Jan Fortune Wood's site and
has her writings about consensual living etc.

Here are a couple of yahoo lists that you might be interested in:
_http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EmpoweredChildhood/_
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EmpoweredChildhood/)

_http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Common-Preference-Parenting/_
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Common-Preference-Parenting/)

Hope that helps get you pointed in the right direction.
Pam G






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Barbara Chase

>Hope that helps get you pointed in the right direction.

Thanks Pam, those are great references. But, I wasn't really asking about
what TCS or NCP are, and I don't really want to discuss them either. I was
just curious about Sandra's comment with respect to the entry point into
the relationship.

ciao
--bc--

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In a message dated 9/21/04 11:22:11 AM, barb@... writes:

<< I was
just curious about Sandra's comment with respect to the entry point into
the relationship.
>>

Now I don't remember the question. I'm sorry. Ask me again.

I think attachment parenting and seeing the child and parent as a team isn't
the same as what I understand of TCS in which the child is seen more as a
separate individual entirely. They become separate, but I don't think they start
separate.

And two sins in the TCS world seem not to be sins in the attachment
parenting/unschooling world, and those are persuasion and compromise.

I think TCS is more idea/theory based than human/emotion based, and that
seems to be a problem to me.

Sandra

Barbara Chase

>Sandra wrote:
>Now I don't remember the question. I'm sorry. Ask me again.
>
>I think attachment parenting and seeing the child and parent as a team <snip>
>They become separate, but I don't think they start separate.

I think this says more about what I wanted to hear. This is what you had
originally written:

>Unschooling can look like it [non-coersive parenting],
>but it's not exactly the same entry-point to the
>relationship.

and I was really intrigued by your "entry-point to the relationship"
phrase. It actually made me think of the idea that we can get there (to a
great relationship with our kids) in different ways -- but I don't think
that's what you meant by it.


Thanks
--bc--

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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In a message dated 9/21/04 2:25:28 PM, barb@... writes:

<< >Unschooling can look like it [non-coersive parenting],
>but it's not exactly the same entry-point to the
>relationship.

and I was really intrigued by your "entry-point to the relationship"
phrase. It actually made me think of the idea that we can get there (to a
great relationship with our kids) in different ways -- but I don't think
that's what you meant by it. >>

I think attachment parenting leads to parents who want to help their children
make their own choices and get their way as much as reasonably and politely
possible in the world.

I think the other just says they have a natural-born RIGHT to have their
way, and "reasonable" and "polite" are unnecessary considerations. I could be
wrong about that, but every time I think I want to look again, some new thing
offends my *delicate sensibilities.* <g>

It seems that the results and the family relationships that come of out what
some callmindful parenting, which seems maybe a later entry into attachment
parenting (or maybe they're both part of some other thing I don't know the name
of) are more naturally organic (in the "grew that way gradually and
naturally") sense than a socio-political overlay that demands no coercion because of
something about coercion itself, or no compromise because of something about
compromise.

Sandra