mozafamily

That was prettymuch my same reaction to the article. Some people are
totally opposed to TV or some set limits on it. So far we haven't
set limits on TV just like we don't set limits on computer stuff,
play time, etc. I leave it up to my child to decide as much as
possible for himself. TV is a particularly hard parenting area IMHO,
some days my son is a royal couch potatoe - other days he does other
things, obviously he still learns a lot whether he watches TV or
not. Sometimes I get that periodic unschoolers panic disorder that
makes me think he's not doing okey if he watches so much TV, but
usually within a week of me feeling that way then his interest in
certain shows may change and he usually looses interest in the TV
for awhile. Currently he's very "into" Code Lyoko which is rated for
7up and even though my ds is only 6 he can tell you exactly what is
happening and even has his own ideas for story plots - but he does
that with a lot of things - started with his Thomas trains - he saw
videos and he also made up lots and lots of his own scenerios, not
just repeating what he saw on the TV. So I feel like as long as he's
using the TV as inspiration and not just blindly following what is
being said or done on the TV that he is doing okey with watching TV,
that he is understanding that TV isn't real life, etc. He goes
through phases like I say sometimes I think he just must not feel
well because he will lay in bed all day and watch TV and then he may
spend a whole week working with a computer program or a robot toy or
building with blocks, etc. So he's not drawn to he HAS to watch TV
everyday, etc. if he wants to do something else he will and he
usually has no objections to running errands with me or going to the
park as well, although sometimes he will ask if we can wait 10
minutes until this program is over. SO mostly I am for TV and free
access to it but admitedly there are days I wish he would turn it
off and do something else. How do you deal with TV with your kids? I
am lucky enough that I rarely watch TV unless I rent a movie or some
show comes on and I plan to watch it, I never watch TV just to "have
something to do" so I hope my child doesn't either. Moza

--- In [email protected], "nellebelle"
<nellebelle@c...> wrote:
> What a great discussion of play vs. work.
>
> One thing that bothered me was her suggestion to say no to TV and
going to the mall. It makes me hesitant to share an otherwise good
article with those who are already biased against TV.
>
> Mary Ellen
> ----- Original Message -----
> http://www.thetyee.ca/NR/exeres/DA4F0DAD-8213-431E-BD03-
04B9A353AFFB,08719391-A5A1-482A-9323-64DF21A7F7B8,frameless.htm
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Angela

SO mostly I am for TV and free
access to it but admitedly there are days I wish he would turn it
off and do something else. How do you deal with TV with your kids

-------------------------------------------------------------



[Angela]

If whatever else is going on in the house is more interesting to him than
TV, then he will want to do that instead. Sometimes it takes an effort on
the part of the parent to make life more interesting.



I have a relative with whom I have shared my ideas (the ideas expressed on
this list, which have worked for us.) about letting kids self regulate with
regards to TV and of course, she says that her son would NEVER stop watching
if she didn't make him. (This conversation was going on because they had
recently bought a satellite dish and finally had cool channels and all he
was doing was watching TV.) I told her that it would wear off to some extent
when it wasn't new anymore and also when he realized that it wouldn't be
taken away. She says she tried it for months and it was always the same,
T,V TV, TV. I suggested that he didn't trust that he'd always have access
to it and so he might be watching more partly because of that. She
disagreed, but after a couple more months, they had the satellite removed.
He was right. The freedom didn't last. And maybe they made more of an
effort to do things that interested him, apart from TV, then he wouldn't
have been so drawn to it.



Speaking of cool things. We bought a $10 radio shack illuminated microscope
today that has 60X-100X magnifying power and it's really a cool toy for only
$10. It's only a little bigger than a credit card and it's wicked fun to
play with.





Angela ~ Maine

Game-enthusiast@...


---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

mozafamily

"Sometimes it takes an effort on
the part of the parent to make life more interesting" - yep I agree
on what you said - most of the time when I'm sick of him watching TV
is when I have been also been feeling sick for a few days(usually I
get a kidney infection or a sinus allergy heachaches) or I am jammed
up working too much at my work at home job as well, or relaxing for
a week because the weeks prior have been so bus. But like I say it
goes in waves or something with him, sometimes he's interested in
something else and sometimes the TV is just more interesting, so I
try to respect that but I also try to encourage his other interests
as well. Do you have any particular things you do when you feel the
TV is becoming an event to fulfill boredom instead of being
educational or inspirational? We're non-coersive so I'm not going to
just tell him to turn it off, or that he has to come do whatever
with me, etc. Moza

--- In [email protected], "Angela" <game-
enthusiast@a...> wrote:
> SO mostly I am for TV and free
> access to it but admitedly there are days I wish he would turn it
> off and do something else. How do you deal with TV with your kids
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> [Angela]
>
> If whatever else is going on in the house is more interesting to
him than
> TV, then he will want to do that instead. Sometimes it takes an
effort on
> the part of the parent to make life more interesting.
>
>
>
> I have a relative with whom I have shared my ideas (the ideas
expressed on
> this list, which have worked for us.) about letting kids self
regulate with
> regards to TV and of course, she says that her son would NEVER
stop watching
> if she didn't make him. (This conversation was going on because
they had
> recently bought a satellite dish and finally had cool channels and
all he
> was doing was watching TV.) I told her that it would wear off to
some extent
> when it wasn't new anymore and also when he realized that it
wouldn't be
> taken away. She says she tried it for months and it was always
the same,
> T,V TV, TV. I suggested that he didn't trust that he'd always
have access
> to it and so he might be watching more partly because of that. She
> disagreed, but after a couple more months, they had the satellite
removed.
> He was right. The freedom didn't last. And maybe they made more
of an
> effort to do things that interested him, apart from TV, then he
wouldn't
> have been so drawn to it.
>
>
>
> Speaking of cool things. We bought a $10 radio shack illuminated
microscope
> today that has 60X-100X magnifying power and it's really a cool
toy for only
> $10. It's only a little bigger than a credit card and it's wicked
fun to
> play with.
>
>
>
>
>
> Angela ~ Maine
>
> Game-enthusiast@a...
>
>
> ---
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.766 / Virus Database: 513 - Release Date: 9/17/2004
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Angela

Do you have any particular things you do when you feel the
TV is becoming an event to fulfill boredom instead of being
educational or inspirational

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------

Moza,

I haven't really looked at it that way, that it's used to fulfill boredom
instead of being educational or inspirational. I just figure they are
getting something out of it. My kids really don't keep watching when it
isn't something they like <at least not for long> so I don't usually feel
like I need to draw them away from it. If we get in a funk I might suggest
board (nothing like a good six hour game of Monopoly!) or card games because
my family really enjoys them. Have you ever played Zilch, a dice game?
It's fun for all ages and easy. I am sure if you googled Zilch, you'd find
the directions. You need 5 dice.



In the winter is when we are more often in a funk and we just need something
to break up the monotony. That's when I usually tell the girls I'm going
outside and see if they want to come with me. It always makes me feel
better to get out in the fresh air. We have cross country skis, sleds, and
snow shoes, so if there is actually snow, it's a great diversion and makes
us feel so good, even if it's only for 30 minutes ( sometimes it's mighty
cold here in Maine.) My girls ride horses at a barn up the road and a visit
to the barn to bring up carrots or apples always cheers them up. We'll
shovel stalls sometimes and that cheers up the horses. Maybe there is a
farm nearby that you could volunteer at? Of course, there is always
visiting friends. My kids really love it when I join them in a networked
game on the computers. <shoot em up> Not really my cup of tea, but it sure
makes them happy.



I guess, you really have to take your son's likes into account.



Angela ~ Maine

* Game-enthusiast@....


---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/21/04 5:03:12 AM, game-enthusiast@... writes:

<< Do you have any particular things you do when you feel the
TV is becoming an event to fulfill boredom instead of being
educational or inspirational >>

One thing I do when I have that fear is think of how many "free hours" a kid
in school might have during which he could be expected to "do nothing." And
then I leave my kids alone about it.

In a moment when what one is doing isn't educational or inspirational, maybe
it's relaxing, or daydreamish.

Although I think children DO learn all the time, I don't think that's the
same as parents thinking they should be taught (or stimulated or educated) all
the time.

If a child is watching ants or playing in the dirt with a stick, maybe the
parent things five minutes is enough, but maybe the kid isn't through thinking
what he's thinking, or seeing what he's seeing.

I've never known a human to watch ants for one second longer than they wanted
to. <g>

Maybe if the mom's getting antsy, she could go and do something else and
forget the kids are still watching TV.

Here's my personal Gilligan's Island story, which couldn't happen without
having watched re-runs:

When I used to watch Gilligan's Island in 4:00 re-runs after school every
day, I would wonder whose idea it was for the plot, how many writers there were,
how they decided who could come and visit, what device they would use to
prevent the visitor from rescuing them, how they must plan in advance not to have
too-similar plots near each other, and the re-runs must be kept in the rest,"
but in later seasons it said, "the movie star, the professor and Mary Ann," and
I wondered whether they had resung the whole thing or just spliced in that
line, because it sounded the same as it had before. And had they done it because
the actors complained? Their agents complained? I wondered whether the
pedal-powered washing machine (or whatever it was) really worked by the pedals, or
whether it was just secretly plugged in, and if so, where did the wires run? I
wondered if much of it was on indoor sets. How deep was that water? (As an
adult, I saw what's left of the set at Universal Studios. Cool! Outside! Actual
little lake.) When I would see a show the second time, I'd look around for
things I had missed the first time. I would re-write lines in my mind, things that
could have been funnier, or sounded more in character for that person. I'd
wonder who knew more about hammock making, the captain or the professor? Maybe
Ginger or Mary Ann knew macramé. When there was a show which didn't have one of
the actors in, I'd wonder whether he was sick or on vacation or what? And if
an actor misses the filming of a sitcom, does he still get paid? I wondered
about them having to keep their hair the same for years, and which of them were
might be wearing wigs. Where were they supposed to be getting nail polish and
lipstick? Hair spray? I wondered if the professor was a physics professor or
engineering, or what, and whether he would lose his job at the university. I
wondered about that Mr. Magoo voice on Thurston Howell. I wondered about Amelia
Earhart. I wondered about the soundtrack music. Did they just have little
themes they pushed a button on during final edit, or was each show done
separately? I wondered if the fruit was real or props. I wondered about cameras--where
were they? Did they have to sweep the dirt between takes? I wondered if the guy
who played the lost WWII pilot was really Japanese. I could think more during
an episode of Gilligan's Island than most other people I knew could think in
a whole week. I didn't bother to ask my parents any of the questions. They
would have thought it was stupid to be thinking them.

So to all outside appearances (except to my cousin, Nada, who was my age) I
was just zoning out, involved in the plot of another 25 minutes of Gilligan's
Island. That wasn't true at all.

Sandra Dodd

(It's at http://sandradodd.com/tv too, along with other peopleTV thoughts)
Z*

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/21/2004 12:09:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

If a child is watching ants or playing in the dirt with a stick, maybe the
parent things five minutes is enough, but maybe the kid isn't through
thinking
what he's thinking, or seeing what he's seeing. <<<<

Ants can be an all day activity and can go on for days. I am in the middle
of writing an essay of sorts on one day that my boys spent watching ants.

Pam G




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/21/04 10:39:32 AM, Genant2@... writes:

<< If a child is watching ants or playing in the dirt with a stick, maybe
the
parent things five minutes is enough, >>

I would like to have a k replace that g in "things."

"Parent things" makes sense, but not enough sense. <g>

Lately my kids can watch ants in the bathroom. It rained really hard for a
couple of nights straight and the ants found the cat food.

I never used to use Pine Sol, but because of Little Shop of Horrors, I bought
some. One of the lines in Audrey's great solo song, "Somewhere that's Green"
is ". . .in the PineSol-scented air, somewhere that's green." So Holly
asked, and I got some.

There. Musicals to ants. <g>

Sandra

Deb Lewis

***There. Musicals to ants. <g>***

Oh, oh! "Antie Maime"! No.... darn.....


Deb

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/20/2004 5:48:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mozafamily@... writes:

Sometimes I get that periodic unschoolers panic disorder that
makes me think he's not doing okey if he watches so much TV, but
usually within a week of me feeling that way then his interest in
certain shows may change and he usually looses interest in the TV
for awhile. .... He goes
through phases like I say sometimes I think he just must not feel
well because he will lay in bed all day and watch TV and then he may
spend a whole week working with a computer program or a robot toy or
building with blocks, etc..... SO mostly I am for TV and free
access to it but admitedly there are days I wish he would turn it
off and do something else. How do you deal with TV with your kids?<<<<

*I* go through periods when I just sit a "veg" in front of the
TV---sometimes for days at a time. Sometimes I'm sick or tired, sometimes I'm "digesting"
something I spent a long time working on, sometimes there's something I want
to watch. I go through periods when the TV is never on, yet I'll lie in bed a
read for hours and hours at a time---book after book after book. I go
through periods when every waking moment I'm in the garden or painting or tiling or
cooking or planning a conference or driving (like that day we drove from MA
to Columbia, SC. Whew! I sometimes have friends over and we talk and eat and
talk some more---maybe for HOURS! Some days all I do is sit at the computer
and read or write (real writing, by the way).

People who are in control of their lives seem to make reasonable decisions
on how to spend their days. It's the people who are NOT in control, who are
unable to make real decisions about what to do when----THOSE people are the ones
who (understandably) seem out of control about what they DO do.

Kind of like food: A child with free rein on what he eats and when will eat
a fairly balanced diet over a month----maybe NOT each day----but averaged over
a longer period of time. Don't look at six straight hours of tv as harmful
(that's just watching _Titanic_ and _The Making of Titanic_!!!). Average it
out over the month. My guess is that it averages out to LESS than the amount
the average schooled kid watches----the kid who's only allowed so many hours
per day (he'll be SURE to take every one!)!


>>>> I am lucky enough that I rarely watch TV unless I rent a movie or some
show comes on and I plan to watch it, I never watch TV just to "have
something to do" so I hope my child doesn't either. <<<<<


You're not "lucky". You're CHOOSING to do that. Your child may be different.
He may do the same.

We have three TVs. None are on now. Duncan and a friend are out bouncing on
the trampoline. I'm on the computer (and getting ready to garden). Ben's at
work. And Cameron is out to lunch with his girlfriend, plans to work for my
parents, and speak to a man about a job.

I didn't tell Duncan and Tristram that it's a beautiful day (86 and sunny
with a light breeze)----they can tell that themselves. And did. And are out
enjoying the beautiful day! Because they CHOOSE to! <g>

~Kelly




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gold Standard

OMG that Gilligan's Island example is hysterical! It is exactly what I did
every day after school. I'm really glad to know about the set...a real lake
outside! Who woulda thunk?

Jacki, feeling more fulfilled

-----Original Message-----
From: SandraDodd@... [mailto:SandraDodd@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 9:05 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: interesting article on Play



In a message dated 9/21/04 5:03:12 AM, game-enthusiast@... writes:

<< Do you have any particular things you do when you feel the
TV is becoming an event to fulfill boredom instead of being
educational or inspirational >>

One thing I do when I have that fear is think of how many "free hours" a kid
in school might have during which he could be expected to "do nothing."
And
then I leave my kids alone about it.

In a moment when what one is doing isn't educational or inspirational, maybe
it's relaxing, or daydreamish.

Although I think children DO learn all the time, I don't think that's the
same as parents thinking they should be taught (or stimulated or educated)
all
the time.

If a child is watching ants or playing in the dirt with a stick, maybe the
parent things five minutes is enough, but maybe the kid isn't through
thinking
what he's thinking, or seeing what he's seeing.

I've never known a human to watch ants for one second longer than they
wanted
to. <g>

Maybe if the mom's getting antsy, she could go and do something else and
forget the kids are still watching TV.

Here's my personal Gilligan's Island story, which couldn't happen without
having watched re-runs:

When I used to watch Gilligan's Island in 4:00 re-runs after school every
day, I would wonder whose idea it was for the plot, how many writers there
were,
how they decided who could come and visit, what device they would use to
prevent the visitor from rescuing them, how they must plan in advance not to
have
too-similar plots near each other, and the re-runs must be kept in the
rest,"
but in later seasons it said, "the movie star, the professor and Mary Ann,"
and
I wondered whether they had resung the whole thing or just spliced in that
line, because it sounded the same as it had before. And had they done it
because
the actors complained? Their agents complained? I wondered whether the
pedal-powered washing machine (or whatever it was) really worked by the
pedals, or
whether it was just secretly plugged in, and if so, where did the wires run?
I
wondered if much of it was on indoor sets. How deep was that water? (As an
adult, I saw what's left of the set at Universal Studios. Cool! Outside!
Actual
little lake.) When I would see a show the second time, I'd look around for
things I had missed the first time. I would re-write lines in my mind,
things that
could have been funnier, or sounded more in character for that person. I'd
wonder who knew more about hammock making, the captain or the professor?
Maybe
Ginger or Mary Ann knew macramé. When there was a show which didn't have one
of
the actors in, I'd wonder whether he was sick or on vacation or what? And if
an actor misses the filming of a sitcom, does he still get paid? I wondered
about them having to keep their hair the same for years, and which of them
were
might be wearing wigs. Where were they supposed to be getting nail polish
and
lipstick? Hair spray? I wondered if the professor was a physics professor or
engineering, or what, and whether he would lose his job at the university. I
wondered about that Mr. Magoo voice on Thurston Howell. I wondered about
Amelia
Earhart. I wondered about the soundtrack music. Did they just have little
themes they pushed a button on during final edit, or was each show done
separately? I wondered if the fruit was real or props. I wondered about
cameras--where
were they? Did they have to sweep the dirt between takes? I wondered if the
guy
who played the lost WWII pilot was really Japanese. I could think more
during
an episode of Gilligan's Island than most other people I knew could think in
a whole week. I didn't bother to ask my parents any of the questions. They
would have thought it was stupid to be thinking them.

So to all outside appearances (except to my cousin, Nada, who was my age) I
was just zoning out, involved in the plot of another 25 minutes of
Gilligan's
Island. That wasn't true at all.

Sandra Dodd

(It's at http://sandradodd.com/tv too, along with other peopleTV thoughts)
Z*




Yahoo! Groups Links

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/20/2004 7:17:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mozafamily@... writes:

most of the time when I'm sick of him watching TV
is when I have been also been feeling sick for a few days(usually I
get a kidney infection or a sinus allergy heachaches) or I am jammed
up working too much at my work at home job as well, or relaxing for
a week because the weeks prior have been so busy. But like I say it
goes in waves or something with him, sometimes he's interested in
something else and sometimes the TV is just more interesting, so I
try to respect that but I also try to encourage his other interests
as well. Do you have any particular things you do when you feel the
TV is becoming an event to fulfill boredom instead of being
educational or inspirational?<<<

I'll keep going! <G>

I find myself veging out sometimes after a stressful or eventful week. I
could just as easily do it with a book, but sometimes I'd rather get my info
through the TV instead of a book.

I don't use it to "fulfill boredom". I'm NOT bored. I'm choosing to engage
my mind in one medium over another.

Mine comes in waves too. I tend to do more TV watching when it's raining or
too hot or too cold----or when I'm out of paint or plants! <g> I also watch
more TV when there's a marathon or a series-----or when we're "doing a
vertical"---like this week: we're all "doing a Hitchcock". We picked up_Dial M for
Murder_, _Vertigo_, _Psycho_, and _Rear Window_ from the library as well as a
few books on Hitchcock. Next, we're looking into a Johnny Depp vertical and
then maybe a Jack Nicholson vertical (we watched _The Two Jakes_ and Easy
Rider_ this week.

For the last few weeks, we haven't watched *any* movies. Now we're excited
about what's coming up. So it goes....

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/21/04 12:13:05 PM, kbcdlovejo@... writes:

<< Next, we're looking into a Johnny Depp vertical >>

I had never seen Edward Scissorhands until recently. Marty and Kirby had.
Holly and I hadn't. I think it could go as a set with "Pleasantville," which
has new interest for kids now because it has what's'his Spiderman.

Not long before that I had picked up a copy of "Don Juan de Marco" with
Johnny Depp and Marlon Brando (and Faye Dunaway, as the third most famous).
Younger kids would
Z* care, but it's about love and reality. I really like it.

Sandra