Pam Hartley

I cleverly deleted my post :P but here's the gist:

I don't believe there is such a thing as "sex addiction". Yes, I know some
people do believe in this, but I don't. Since I don't believe in it, I don't
believe internet porn can cause it. In the same way, I don't believe that
viewing pornography causes you (generic you) to go to hell. I know of people
who believe the opposite.

Now, I might be wrong about either of these non-beliefs, but in the meantime
I'm no more likely to tell anyone who is looking at internet porn, "you
could get addicted and ruin your life" than I am to say, "you're going to
hell". To me, they're both superstitious and nonsensical.

If someone had said seriously in this discussion, "If you, Tia, let your son
view anything resembling a woman's naked body you're consigning his soul to
hell", it would make the same amount of sense to me as saying that an
addiction to sex made someone use the internet as sort of a gateway drug to
prostitutes.

Annie to Millie in Bull Durham, "You did not get lured, say it, 'women do
not get lured, we are too strong and powerful.'"

There's not much in the way of "addictions" and "I couldn't help myselfs"
that I'm able to buy.

Pam, daughter of alcoholic

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/3/02 8:50:51 PM, pamhartley@... writes:

<< I'm no more likely to tell anyone who is looking at internet porn, "you
could get addicted and ruin your life" than I am to say, "you're going to
hell". To me, they're both superstitious and nonsensical.
>>

As far as I can tell, they both spring from the same sources, too.
Fundamentalist Christian "booga-booga" sites.

<<There's not much in the way of "addictions" and "I couldn't help myselfs"
that I'm able to buy.>>

I do believe in addiction, but I don't think women become addicted to romance
novels or mystery series. I don't think people become addicted to playing
Minesweeper, or listening to rock'n'roll, although I think some people
really, really like those things and do them lots. And I don't think
listening to Led Zeppelin creates an addiction to Arrowsmith or whatever up
the line. Maybe Marty's addicted to Lego--he wants a set of the western
stuff for his birthday. THIRTEENTH birthday. Shouldn't a boy that age be
wanting something more... more... like a trip to the mall to go to movies
and look at rude t-shirts? (Well that was his third choice, and #2, which
he's also getting, is to go ice skating with some friends.) Maybe I should
never have let him play with ANY Lego, because the set he has chosen out of
the newly-arrived catalog is not cheap. But a just-after-Christmas
birthday shouldn't be denied just because the Christmas bills haven't come
in, and so... I vote "not an addict." And I'm relieved a new teen will
still pick Lego.

Sandra

Carol & Mac

Well....

SandraDodd@... wrote:

> And I'm relieved a new teen will
> still pick Lego.

My 18yo still takes himself off to little brother's room to play with
the lego occasionally, especially when he's depressed or worried - it's
been around so long, I figure it's become a sort of security blanket!

Carol

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/3/02 11:09:55 PM, SandraDodd@... writes:

<< I do believe in addiction, but I don't think women become addicted to
romance
novels or mystery series. I don't think people become addicted to playing
Minesweeper, or listening to rock'n'roll, although I think some people
really, really like those things and do them lots. >>

I think the definition of addiction is a bit different. "Persistent
compulsive use of a substance known by the user to be harmful. " Harmful is
generally defined as damaging self or people/things important to self.

We joke about being addicted to chocolate, to skiing, that sort of thing
which provides enjoyment. Persistent compulsive use, it isn't.

Persistent compulsive use in the face of negative results. Certainly allows
for free choice in the matter -- somewhat different from being chemically
attached to a drug. Gamblers aren't addicted, I don't think, in the chemical
sense. But they do gamble persistently and compulsively in the face of
bankruptcy.

Perhaps it would be difficult to imagine someone who persistently and
compulsively spent time with pornography, instead of time with family or
work. Doesn't mean it didn't happen. But as I said, gang, I do think MOST
people do not have problems with addiction in general. And I'm not saying
"Don't view it because you'll get addicted." What I said was it appears SOME
people have had problems with it. I wouldn't say "Don't drink alcohol
because you'll get addicted" either. Sheesh.

Sharon

Tia Leschke

>
>Now, I might be wrong about either of these non-beliefs, but in the meantime
>I'm no more likely to tell anyone who is looking at internet porn, "you
>could get addicted and ruin your life" than I am to say, "you're going to
>hell". To me, they're both superstitious and nonsensical.

But part of the reason I asked was my feeling that a person who gets really
into porn for their gratification *could* find it harder to relate to a
real person sexually. I'm not going to call that addiction by any means,
but it does concern me a bit. Anybody have thoughts on that
possibility? It's a part of my wanting to find ways to channel his interest.

He's going to be stuck in the car with me for most of today, so I think
we'll at least be having a talk about it all.
Tia


No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island

Pam Hartley

To me, this is like saying that my daughter's many games involving her
Pokemon and Beanie Babies talking to each other could get in the way of her
forming real communicative relationships.

Some people do live in fantasy worlds, but I think again the fantasy is the
symptom, not the cause. Some men are misogynistic or selfish or
anti-socially shy, and they seem to do better with pin up girls than real
women, but I think that's effect, not cause.

I don't think rock and roll makes people kill cops, and I don't think video
games make people open fire in public schools. I don't think television
turns people's brains to mush.

When I was growing up in a bad early-teenagehood, I turned to fantasy and
science fiction for escape. I lived in those worlds much more surely than I
lived in the real one around me (at least until I was 16 and dog training
rescued me and I left home). This was not the fault of the fantasy and
science fiction books lining my shelves.

Just to caveat, I'm not suggesting a, "yes dear, and please, let me buy you
another Penthouse" attitude. I don't know that I do have any great
suggestions, but I'm interested in the part of this conversation on cause
and effect.

Pam

----------
From: Tia Leschke <leschke@...>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Teenage Boys etc.
Date: Fri, Jan 4, 2002, 9:28 AM


>Now, I might be wrong about either of these non-beliefs, but in the meantime
>I'm no more likely to tell anyone who is looking at internet porn, "you
>could get addicted and ruin your life" than I am to say, "you're going to
>hell". To me, they're both superstitious and nonsensical.

But part of the reason I asked was my feeling that a person who gets really
into porn for their gratification *could* find it harder to relate to a
real person sexually.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

On Fri, 04 Jan 2002 22:38:54 +1300 Carol & Mac <mjcmbrwn@...>
writes:
> My 18yo still takes himself off to little brother's room to play
> with
> the lego occasionally, especially when he's depressed or worried -
> it's
> been around so long, I figure it's become a sort of security
> blanket!

Hey, *I* still play with lego. Cacie is kindly letting me help with the
Hogwarts castle we (um, I mean, *she*) got for Christmas this year... I
truly find it to be one of the most relaxing things to do. I prefer
following instructions, though, whereas she's more freeform..

A friend and I used to plan our ideal mom's night out with just the two
of us.... just lock us in a room with 3 or 4 brand new big lego sets and
a bottle of wine, and leave her husband with the kids... yup, that'd do
it :-)

Dar
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

[email protected]

<< When I was growing up in a bad early-teenagehood, I turned to fantasy and
science fiction for escape. I lived in those worlds much more surely than I
lived in the real one around me (at least until I was 16 and dog training
rescued me and I left home). >>

So, I have a question then. After reading all that alien sex, are you
disappointed that your husband doesn't have tentacles, double dong, or three
arms? Do you wish he were more cat-like and had more fur? (My husband
loves sci-fi fantasy with sex in it. I asked if it was good jack-off
material. He rared back his head like I was a sicko and said "NO.")

Sandra

Nancy Wooton

on 1/4/02 9:28 AM, Tia Leschke at leschke@... wrote:

>
>>
>> Now, I might be wrong about either of these non-beliefs, but in the meantime
>> I'm no more likely to tell anyone who is looking at internet porn, "you
>> could get addicted and ruin your life" than I am to say, "you're going to
>> hell". To me, they're both superstitious and nonsensical.
>
> But part of the reason I asked was my feeling that a person who gets really
> into porn for their gratification *could* find it harder to relate to a
> real person sexually. I'm not going to call that addiction by any means,
> but it does concern me a bit. Anybody have thoughts on that
> possibility? It's a part of my wanting to find ways to channel his interest.

Ripped from today's headlines <g>


Survey shows more men addicted to sex online

http://www.uniontrib.com/news/uniontrib/fri/currents/news_1c4miss.html


REUTERS

January 4, 2002

About 6.5 percent of male Internet users are compulsive cybersex fans, with
online fantasy lives so intense that their offline relationships may suffer,
according to a recent study.

"We know a lot of people are using the Internet for sexual activity. We need
to figure out how people get in trouble with it," said Dr. Al Cooper of the
San Jose Marital and Sexuality Centre, who conducted the survey in
conjunction with MSNBC.

Cooper, who has conducted a series of surveys probing the growing world of
Internet sex, said his latest study was aimed at identifying those at risk
for cybersex addiction.

Culling through some 40,000 responses to a poll posted at the MSNBC site,
Cooper examined a random sample of some 7,000 male respondents and further
narrowed the group down to 384 who indicated they had problems with online
sexual activity.

These respondents reported that they engaged in cybersex for an average of
about 5.7 hours per week, or twice as much time as the rest of the sample.

Spending more hours trolling the Internet's porn sites and sex chat rooms
was only one signifier of online sexual compulsion, Cooper said.

Most of those who reported cybersex addiction said they went online to
relieve stress, rather than for entertainment or sex information.

"People do it again and again and again, instead of running or talking to
their partner," Cooper said. "There are alternate ways of relieving stress
that are probably healthier."

They also said they spent time engaging in cybersexual activities that they
would never attempt in real life.

"These people go online to do things, whether it's with animals or
threesomes or homosexual or whatever -- that they wouldn't do in their
offline life," Cooper said.

"This tends to reinforce a split between their online and offline life," he
said. "The Internet can be good in the sense that you can experiment and
check it out, but if you never resolve it offline, it creates a fantasy life
that the research finds to be problematic."

Cooper said that most of those respondents who reported signs of cybersex
compulsion also reported reduced real time sexual activity with an offline
partner -- further alienating their real and fantasy sex lives.

Some experts have questioned the validity of Cooper's findings, noting that
the self-selecting nature of the respondents meant it was not as
scientifically useful as a true, random poll.

Editors at MSNBC have said they posted the survey because they found it
interesting, not to obtain hard scientific results.

But Cooper, a psychologist who teaches at Stanford University, said the
fledgling field of online sexuality studies required new methods of
gathering data and that Internet polls could reach a much larger and more
diverse group than traditional surveys.

Cooper said the next survey, due out in several months, would take a broader
look at cybersex compulsion and would include data from women --
statistically believed to have a lower rate of "cyber-addiction" than men.

Recent statistics show that between December 1999 and February 2001, the
number of individual visitors to sexual sites grew by more than 27 percent,
to nearly 28 million from 22 million. Over the same period, retail sites
showed growth at less than half that rate.

"What we would expect over time is that there is going to be an increase,"
he said. "Some people convert to problematic Internet usage, and the real
problem then is that they don't seem to be able to find their way out of
it."


Copyright 2002 Union-Tribune Publishing Co.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pam Hartley

Clearly, I was reading the wrong science fiction. <g> No, wait, I did read
about people with tentacles, so I must've been on the right track and
stopped too soon...

Pam
----------
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Teenage Boys etc.
Date: Fri, Jan 4, 2002, 10:14 AM


So, I have a question then. After reading all that alien sex, are you
disappointed that your husband doesn't have tentacles, double dong, or three
arms?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/4/02 11:20:51 AM, Felicitas@... writes:

<< "These people go online to do things, whether it's with animals or
threesomes or homosexual or whatever -- that they wouldn't do in their
offline life," Cooper said. >>

This is another matter, cyber-sex. They're not "Doing things" looking at
porn sites (nothing they couldn't do with a magazine), but when it's chat
room interaction, with someone talking them through like phone sex, that's
beyond what the question was about.

There are women who have instant message "affairs" with guys just talking
dirty, and they talk dirty back. This has gone on in phone calls, paid and
volunteer, since before the internet. That probably would hamper real-life
sex because of guilt (in the case of marriage) and less of need (for
attention and stimulation).

But if someone, male or female, is in a relationship that's lacking and
they're going to go looking for attention elsewhere, I think it's worlds
better to pretend, alone, still being at home, than to go to bars or clubs.

That it's convenient makes it easier to return than if it were the bar, but
there's also not the pesky problem of hiding from others in your hometown,
getting diseases, risking pregnancy, getting beat up, driving drunk, leaving
spouses and kids alone, and all the related issues of screwing around.

And in the case of single, unattached men who weren't going to have real
physical relationships anyway? I don't see what it hurts.

Sandra

Sandra

Joseph Fuerst

Tia,
I was wondering if there are any males on list or off who could give you
and/or the young lad :-) [I love it when you refer to him that way!] a bit
og male perspective in this area? I would imagine it may be challenging
[NOT impossible, I suppose, for someone comfortable with sex/sexuality as
you seem to be] to talk with a teenage son about his newfound hormonal
surges and interest in exploring sex/sexuality.
I do not live with teenage boys....my guy's only a toddler, but the
ones I know seem adept at telling mom what she wants to hear, minimizing,
exploring this somewhat secretly.
Just a few thoughts i had.
Susan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tia Leschke" <leschke@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Teenage Boys etc.


>
> >
> >Now, I might be wrong about either of these non-beliefs, but in the
meantime
> >I'm no more likely to tell anyone who is looking at internet porn, "you
> >could get addicted and ruin your life" than I am to say, "you're going to
> >hell". To me, they're both superstitious and nonsensical.
>
> But part of the reason I asked was my feeling that a person who gets
really
> into porn for their gratification *could* find it harder to relate to a
> real person sexually. I'm not going to call that addiction by any means,
> but it does concern me a bit. Anybody have thoughts on that
> possibility? It's a part of my wanting to find ways to channel his
interest.
>
> He's going to be stuck in the car with me for most of today, so I think
> we'll at least be having a talk about it all.
> Tia
>
>
> No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
> Eleanor Roosevelt
> *********************************************
> Tia Leschke
> leschke@...
> On Vancouver Island
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Joseph Fuerst

So maybe the teen will grow up to be an Ivy League scientist who studies
cybersex?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nancy Wooton" <Felicitas@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Teenage Boys etc.


> on 1/4/02 9:28 AM, Tia Leschke at leschke@... wrote:
>
> >
> >>
> >> Now, I might be wrong about either of these non-beliefs, but in the
meantime
> >> I'm no more likely to tell anyone who is looking at internet porn, "you
> >> could get addicted and ruin your life" than I am to say, "you're going
to
> >> hell". To me, they're both superstitious and nonsensical.
> >
> > But part of the reason I asked was my feeling that a person who gets
really
> > into porn for their gratification *could* find it harder to relate to a
> > real person sexually. I'm not going to call that addiction by any
means,
> > but it does concern me a bit. Anybody have thoughts on that
> > possibility? It's a part of my wanting to find ways to channel his
interest.
>
> Ripped from today's headlines <g>
>
>
> Survey shows more men addicted to sex online
>
> http://www.uniontrib.com/news/uniontrib/fri/currents/news_1c4miss.html
>
>
> REUTERS
>
> January 4, 2002
>
> About 6.5 percent of male Internet users are compulsive cybersex fans,
with
> online fantasy lives so intense that their offline relationships may
suffer,
> according to a recent study.
>
> "We know a lot of people are using the Internet for sexual activity. We
need
> to figure out how people get in trouble with it," said Dr. Al Cooper of
the
> San Jose Marital and Sexuality Centre, who conducted the survey in
> conjunction with MSNBC.
>
> Cooper, who has conducted a series of surveys probing the growing world of
> Internet sex, said his latest study was aimed at identifying those at risk
> for cybersex addiction.
>
> Culling through some 40,000 responses to a poll posted at the MSNBC site,
> Cooper examined a random sample of some 7,000 male respondents and further
> narrowed the group down to 384 who indicated they had problems with online
> sexual activity.
>
> These respondents reported that they engaged in cybersex for an average of
> about 5.7 hours per week, or twice as much time as the rest of the sample.
>
> Spending more hours trolling the Internet's porn sites and sex chat rooms
> was only one signifier of online sexual compulsion, Cooper said.
>
> Most of those who reported cybersex addiction said they went online to
> relieve stress, rather than for entertainment or sex information.
>
> "People do it again and again and again, instead of running or talking to
> their partner," Cooper said. "There are alternate ways of relieving stress
> that are probably healthier."
>
> They also said they spent time engaging in cybersexual activities that
they
> would never attempt in real life.
>
> "These people go online to do things, whether it's with animals or
> threesomes or homosexual or whatever -- that they wouldn't do in their
> offline life," Cooper said.
>
> "This tends to reinforce a split between their online and offline life,"
he
> said. "The Internet can be good in the sense that you can experiment and
> check it out, but if you never resolve it offline, it creates a fantasy
life
> that the research finds to be problematic."
>
> Cooper said that most of those respondents who reported signs of cybersex
> compulsion also reported reduced real time sexual activity with an offline
> partner -- further alienating their real and fantasy sex lives.
>
> Some experts have questioned the validity of Cooper's findings, noting
that
> the self-selecting nature of the respondents meant it was not as
> scientifically useful as a true, random poll.
>
> Editors at MSNBC have said they posted the survey because they found it
> interesting, not to obtain hard scientific results.
>
> But Cooper, a psychologist who teaches at Stanford University, said the
> fledgling field of online sexuality studies required new methods of
> gathering data and that Internet polls could reach a much larger and more
> diverse group than traditional surveys.
>
> Cooper said the next survey, due out in several months, would take a
broader
> look at cybersex compulsion and would include data from women --
> statistically believed to have a lower rate of "cyber-addiction" than men.
>
> Recent statistics show that between December 1999 and February 2001, the
> number of individual visitors to sexual sites grew by more than 27
percent,
> to nearly 28 million from 22 million. Over the same period, retail sites
> showed growth at less than half that rate.
>
> "What we would expect over time is that there is going to be an increase,"
> he said. "Some people convert to problematic Internet usage, and the real
> problem then is that they don't seem to be able to find their way out of
> it."
>
>
> Copyright 2002 Union-Tribune Publishing Co.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/4/02 5:26:48 PM, fuerst@... writes:

<< So maybe the teen will grow up to be an Ivy League scientist who studies
cybersex?
>>

What!?
You think people can't UNSCHOOL cybersex??






(OH! Maybe you mean research into the use, realities and PROBlems of
cybersex...)

Tia Leschke

>So maybe the teen will grow up to be an Ivy League scientist who studies
>cybersex?

He'll have to get at least slightly interested in academics first. <g>
Tia

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island

Sharon Rudd

Gamblers aren't addicted, I
> don't think, in the chemical
> sense

Endomorphins, adrenolin....probably some others

Sharon of the Swamp

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
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[email protected]

In a message dated 1/5/02 12:04:10 PM, leschke@... writes:

<< >So maybe the teen will grow up to be an Ivy League scientist who studies
>cybersex?

He'll have to get at least slightly interested in academics first. <g> >>

THAT is why Playboy would be better. They have information on the models,
and some of them are college students.

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/5/02 2:04:09 PM, leschke@... writes:

<< >So maybe the teen will grow up to be an Ivy League scientist who studies
>cybersex?

He'll have to get at least slightly interested in academics first. <g> >>

Another side note: Academia carries risks! (this is a tongue in cheek
reference, no pouncing ;-) )

Prof. Pleas No Contest in Sex Charge

.c The Associated Press


NEW HAVEN, Conn. (AP) - A former Yale University geology professor has
pleaded no contest to charges that he sexually assaulted a boy during a
period covering about half of the boy's 13 years.

Antonio Lasaga, 52, who had served as the boy's mentor in a New Haven school
program for children with family problems, entered the plea Friday as his
state trial was to begin.

Lasaga was arrested in 1998 when federal investigators, acting on a tip,
searched his apartment and found thousands of child pornography photos and
videotapes.

The university fired Lasaga last year.

Assistant State's Attorney David J. Strollo described often graphic evidence
of Lasaga's sexual activities that began when the boy was about 6.

The state charges covered by the no-contest plea carry a combined maximum
penalty of 110 years in prison and include two counts of sexual assault and
two counts of employing a minor in an obscene performance.

In a plea bargain in federal court, Lasaga admitted possessing child
pornography and agreed to a sentence of about 20 years.

Sentencing in federal court is set for Jan. 28 and in state court is
scheduled Feb. 1.

[email protected]

Regarding freedom of speech and internet sex...interesting limitation --
interesting to see how this technology spreads, or doesn't.

Sex Offenders Monitored by Software

By JOHN O'CONNOR
.c The Associated Press


SPRINGFIELD, Ill. (AP) - During a seminar on computer software designed to
monitor children's Internet use and protect them from sexual predators, Don
Spurlin wondered if the product couldn't be turned around to monitor the
predators themselves.

Spurlin, a probation officer with a caseload full of sex offenders, contacted
the maker of ``Cyber Sentinel.'' Security Software Systems had never
considered using the software for law enforcement, but welcomed the idea.

Now tests of the program have worked so well that Spurlin's Sangamon County
plans to require the software for computer-using offenders on probation.

``We're protecting children by preventing the offenders that we know about
from being able to do the things that they'd like to do,'' Spurlin said.

Cyber Sentinel was developed to record sexually explicit references in
children's chat room conversations, instant messages, e-mail messages and
image exchanges so parents can see what their children are doing online, said
Dan Jude, president of Sugar Grove-based Security Software.

The program uses a library of offensive and explicit words developed with law
enforcement agencies, and includes phrases used by offenders, such as ``Do
your parents use this computer?'' or ``Do you like older men?'' It can be
customized to spot personal information, such as the child's school name,
phone number and address.

The software was tested on four Sangamon County sex offenders who have
computers. If they go to a prohibited Web site, use sexually explicit
language or use phrases common to online predators, Spurlin gets an e-mail
letting him know their probation conditions may have been violated.

``At first, I thought that this is taking everything away from my privacy,''
said Jim McIntire, 33, of Springfield, who has been on probation for six
years for criminal sexual abuse.

``The more I thought about it, the more I realized they've got a tight rein
on me. With this, at least they know I'm on the computer and I'm not out
doing something different.''

Other probation offices across the country are using similar programs, said
Carl Wicklund, executive director of the American Parole and Probation
Association.

They have obvious benefits but must not replace human contact, Wicklund said.

``If you're too reliant on any technology, the facts may hide the truth,'' he
said.

Authorities can customize the list of words or phrases that generate an
e-mail alert, Jude said.

In McIntire's case, his computer activity produced nearly 100 alerts in just
one week. It turned out just to be offensive language McIntire was using
while playing online card games, so Spurlin removed some of the words from
his Sentinel library.

The American Civil Liberties Union recognizes that people on probation have
fewer rights than other citizens, but wants to make sure authorities don't go
overboard with the software.

``It's reasonable for people to want to read articles and even look at
pictures that have references to sexuality that don't raise concerns about
future sex offenses,'' ACLU attorney Benjamin Wolf said.

Security Software has given Sangamon County 100 copies of the $35 program.

County Adult Probation Director Michael Torchia has gotten judicial approval
to change the probation code to require that future sex offenders on
probation who have computers use the software.

Tia Leschke

>
><< >So maybe the teen will grow up to be an Ivy League scientist who studies
> >cybersex?
>
>He'll have to get at least slightly interested in academics first. <g> >>
>
>THAT is why Playboy would be better. They have information on the models,
>and some of them are college students.

LOL!

I tried to have that talk with him in the car yesterday. I asked him what
he thought about the people who posed on those internet sex sites he likes
to look at, whether he thought they enjoyed what they were doing. He
looked straight at me and said he didn't go to those sites. I asked who
did, because I know *someone* did on December 14. He said he didn't
know. (Before anyone suggests maybe it was dh, let it be known that dh is
the original technophobe. He never touches the computer, wouldn't know how
to get online, doesn't even want to learn how to play a CD on it.)

I just let the lie go and continued on with what *I* wanted to say about
the people, that they likely didn't enjoy what they were doing, that they
might be desperate for money, though it doesn't pay much, that they might
have been drugged or even kidnapped, that the pop stars probably had
someone else's body pasted onto their heads, that kind of thing. I got no
reaction, but at least I had my say. Have I mentioned that my son is *not*
a talker? %^)

I was disappointed about the lying. We've had a lot of trouble with it
over the years, even though there are no harsh punishments he might need to
lie to avoid. WHen he was little, he used to tell me he hadn't done
something even when I had watched him do the thing and he *knew* I had
watched him do it. I kind of thought we were over that by now, but I guess
not. The other night the phone rang quite late and woke me up. It was a
fax machine or something. Lars was still up, and the door to the computer
room was almost closed, something he usually doesn't do. I went towards
the room to have a peek in, which I often do when he's in there. He shut
the door further. I asked casually what he was working on, and he said he
was downloading stuff. I decided not to call him on the fact that the
phone wouldn't have rung if he had really been online. My take is that it
was a spur of the moment lie. (Maybe my original approach to the porn last
year was too heavy. Maybe he figures he's going to get into a lot of
trouble if he admits it. I don't know.)

Rod is going to talk with him, maybe find him some pictures to look
at. We'll see how it plays out.
Tia


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No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island

Sharon Rudd

Thankyou so much for the follow-up, Tia. Growing up
sure is hard!! Glad I don't have to be a teen, myself,
all over again.

Like having the baby to begin with. You KNOW you will
get through it, one way or another, but it sure is
HARD.

SOS



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Joseph Fuerst

In a message dated 1/4/02 5:26:48 PM, fuerst@... writes:

<< So maybe the teen will grow up to be an Ivy League scientist who studies
cybersex?
>>

What!?
You think people can't UNSCHOOL cybersex??

No, I meant that perhaps his interset in/fascination with cybersex could
lead him to consider how it affacts others. And that perhaps he'd choos a
career in research on this topic.
It was a joke.
Perhaps living with my husband's sense of humor is having an effect on
me....perhaps I'm not a great joke teller. Oh well.
Always learning,
Susan

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/7/02 3:10:36 PM, fuerst@... writes:

<< What!?
You think people can't UNSCHOOL cybersex??

No, I meant that perhaps his interset in/fascination with cybersex could
lead him to consider how it affacts others. And that perhaps he'd choos a
career in research on this topic.
It was a joke. >>

Mine too.

Joseph Fuerst

Ok,.....I'm just taking everything wrong these days.
Susan...taking time off to recoup my "self" and recover from a nasty virus.
'
----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Teenage Boys etc.


>
> In a message dated 1/7/02 3:10:36 PM, fuerst@... writes:
>
> << What!?
> You think people can't UNSCHOOL cybersex??
>
> No, I meant that perhaps his interset in/fascination with cybersex could
> lead him to consider how it affacts others. And that perhaps he'd choos a
> career in research on this topic.
> It was a joke. >>
>
> Mine too.
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>