[email protected]

Someone wrote complaining about Pam asking for the discussion of Burning Man
to move. Pam's a good moderator, and I'm backing her up on that. But here's
kind of the other side of that political spectrum. Note at the bottom the
evilness of "Socialism and Collectivism," which is really kind of the glory of
the Burning Man story, in one way of looking at it.

I think there's a clue in this about why a few people are angry with
unschoolers for caring more about HOW people learn than how they are registered to
homeschool.

But ultimately both this and the Burning Man discussion seem to me more about
politics than about unschooling itself. Though everything in the world is a
learning opportunity, AlwaysLearning exists not to be the portal to all
learning opportunities (google.com can be that <bwg>) but to be a place where the
discussion is held toward unschooling.

------------------------------------------------------------------------



Dear School Liberator Subscriber:


Join the best thinkers on education at SepCon2004,

Saturday-Monday, November 20-22, at the lovely

Omni Shoreham Hotel in Washington, DC.

For details, click: <http://sepcon.org/index.php>.


Our theme is


GET THE KIDS OUT

of HARMFUL SCHOOLS!


---Everyone at SepCon is an intellectually honest

---seeker of truth and a source of bold ideas.

---What a super event!!

Dan Engler, former White House writer


---I liked the variety of speakers from different

---religious points of view.

John Mark Reynolds, Founder and Director of the

Torrey Honors Program, Biola University


---A must for all physicians who truly care

---about the children under their care.

Debra Monde, family physician, Florida


That's a sample of the excitement of all who

have attended the four previous "SepCons"

sponsored by the Alliance for Separation of

School & State.


SepCon2004 is the conference for those who

recognize that school-by-government simply cannot

be reformed. If we are to ever achieve honest

education---where teachers can honestly tell parents

what they are teaching---we must end government

involvement in schooling <http://sepcon.org/index.php>.


At SepCon, you can share your thoughts with

major speakers who have been laboring in the

vineyards of educational freedom:


* Michael Farris, President of Patrick Henry

College and founder, HSLDA

* John Taylor Gatto, 1991 New York State

Teacher of the Year

* Joe Sobran, America's "Deep Thinker Columnist"

* David Noebel, President of Summit Ministries

* Cathy Duffy, author of "Government Nannies"

* Marshall Fritz, Founder of the Alliance for

Separation of School & State

* James Taylor, Former Chairman of the

Dept. of Education, Hillsdale College

* Daniel Smithwick, E. Ray Moore, Bruce Shortt,

T.C. Pinckney, Bob Burg, and many more


You'll be mixing with some of the boldest

education thinkers in the world who want to

"Get the Kids Out" of government-controlled school

system. They want to hear your ideas and you'll

want to hear theirs.


And it's all at the Omni Shoreham Hotel.

Situated within 11 acres of the lushly verdant

Rock Creek Park and across the street from the

National Zoo, the historic Omni Shoreham Hotel is

D.C.'s largest AAA "Four-Diamond" hotel ... and

we have negotiated incredibly low room rates of

$129 per night!


Reserve your place.... Register before Oct. 20

and save $50 off the $299 standard registration.

See special prices for "bring your pastor,"

"bring a friend," and bring a teen" by

clicking: <http://sepcon.org/regform.php>


Read more about the lineup of educational and

soul-strengthening events at SepCon2004!

Click: <http://sepcon.org/schedule.php>




WHO SHOULD ATTEND?


Parents * Grandparents * Home Schoolers


Public and Private School Teachers and Administrators


Christians fed up with "officially Godless schools"


Conservatives, Constitutionalists, and Libertarians

fed up with Socialism and Collectivism


Anyone dismayed at the collapse of culture

and integrity in the Western World


a-n-d ........All who are concerned about the

poorest and weakest in society



See you at SepCon!



Marshall Fritz


PS.... See all the special prices at

<http://sepcon.org/regform.php>


PPS... If this is the first you have heard of this

movement, see "Sunday School, Monday School-

Neither is the business of government!" Click:

<http://honested.com/essays/fritz/sunday.php>





Marshall Fritz

President, HonestEdu.org

(Alliance for the Separation of School & State)

1071 N Fulton St, Fresno CA 93728

(559) 499-1776 fax 499-1703

eriksmama2001

The evilness of socialism and collectivism is not the antithesis of
unschooling? Government controlled education is a subset of socialism
and collectivism.

What is the whole basic tenet of following one's own passions in life
and learning if not the right of self-determination and the pursuit
of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness through unlimited
learning?

I am not trying to get political on a personal level, but the
concepts are basic to freedom to learn, aren't they? Burning Man
sounds like a source of challenging assumptions. How many dedicated
sources are there in our conventional world to non-collective
thinking?

Pat




--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
> Someone wrote complaining about Pam asking for the discussion of
Burning Man
> to move. Pam's a good moderator, and I'm backing her up on that.
But here's
> kind of the other side of that political spectrum. Note at the
bottom the
> evilness of "Socialism and Collectivism," which is really kind of
the glory of
> the Burning Man story, in one way of looking at it.
>
> I think there's a clue in this about why a few people are angry
with
> unschoolers for caring more about HOW people learn than how they
are registered to
> homeschool.
>
> But ultimately both this and the Burning Man discussion seem to me
more about
> politics than about unschooling itself. Though everything in the
world is a
> learning opportunity, AlwaysLearning exists not to be the portal to
all
> learning opportunities (google.com can be that <bwg>) but to be a
place where the
> discussion is held toward unschooling.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>
>
>
> Dear School Liberator Subscriber:
>
>
> Join the best thinkers on education at SepCon2004,
>
> Saturday-Monday, November 20-22, at the lovely
>
> Omni Shoreham Hotel in Washington, DC.
>
> For details, click: <http://sepcon.org/index.php>.
>
>
> Our theme is
>
>
> GET THE KIDS OUT
>
> of HARMFUL SCHOOLS!
>
>
> ---Everyone at SepCon is an intellectually honest
>
> ---seeker of truth and a source of bold ideas.
>
> ---What a super event!!
>
> Dan Engler, former White House writer
>
>
> ---I liked the variety of speakers from different
>
> ---religious points of view.
>
> John Mark Reynolds, Founder and Director of the
>
> Torrey Honors Program, Biola University
>
>
> ---A must for all physicians who truly care
>
> ---about the children under their care.
>
> Debra Monde, family physician, Florida
>
>
> That's a sample of the excitement of all who
>
> have attended the four previous "SepCons"
>
> sponsored by the Alliance for Separation of
>
> School & State.
>
>
> SepCon2004 is the conference for those who
>
> recognize that school-by-government simply cannot
>
> be reformed. If we are to ever achieve honest
>
> education---where teachers can honestly tell parents
>
> what they are teaching---we must end government
>
> involvement in schooling <http://sepcon.org/index.php>.
>
>
> At SepCon, you can share your thoughts with
>
> major speakers who have been laboring in the
>
> vineyards of educational freedom:
>
>
> * Michael Farris, President of Patrick Henry
>
> College and founder, HSLDA
>
> * John Taylor Gatto, 1991 New York State
>
> Teacher of the Year
>
> * Joe Sobran, America's "Deep Thinker Columnist"
>
> * David Noebel, President of Summit Ministries
>
> * Cathy Duffy, author of "Government Nannies"
>
> * Marshall Fritz, Founder of the Alliance for
>
> Separation of School & State
>
> * James Taylor, Former Chairman of the
>
> Dept. of Education, Hillsdale College
>
> * Daniel Smithwick, E. Ray Moore, Bruce Shortt,
>
> T.C. Pinckney, Bob Burg, and many more
>
>
> You'll be mixing with some of the boldest
>
> education thinkers in the world who want to
>
> "Get the Kids Out" of government-controlled school
>
> system. They want to hear your ideas and you'll
>
> want to hear theirs.
>
>
> And it's all at the Omni Shoreham Hotel.
>
> Situated within 11 acres of the lushly verdant
>
> Rock Creek Park and across the street from the
>
> National Zoo, the historic Omni Shoreham Hotel is
>
> D.C.'s largest AAA "Four-Diamond" hotel ... and
>
> we have negotiated incredibly low room rates of
>
> $129 per night!
>
>
> Reserve your place.... Register before Oct. 20
>
> and save $50 off the $299 standard registration.
>
> See special prices for "bring your pastor,"
>
> "bring a friend," and bring a teen" by
>
> clicking: <http://sepcon.org/regform.php>
>
>
> Read more about the lineup of educational and
>
> soul-strengthening events at SepCon2004!
>
> Click: <http://sepcon.org/schedule.php>
>
>
>
>
> WHO SHOULD ATTEND?
>
>
> Parents * Grandparents * Home Schoolers
>
>
> Public and Private School Teachers and Administrators
>
>
> Christians fed up with "officially Godless schools"
>
>
> Conservatives, Constitutionalists, and Libertarians
>
> fed up with Socialism and Collectivism
>
>
> Anyone dismayed at the collapse of culture
>
> and integrity in the Western World
>
>
> a-n-d ........All who are concerned about the
>
> poorest and weakest in society
>
>
>
> See you at SepCon!
>
>
>
> Marshall Fritz
>
>
> PS.... See all the special prices at
>
> <http://sepcon.org/regform.php>
>
>
> PPS... If this is the first you have heard of this
>
> movement, see "Sunday School, Monday School-
>
> Neither is the business of government!" Click:
>
> <http://honested.com/essays/fritz/sunday.php>
>
>
>
>
>
> Marshall Fritz
>
> President, HonestEdu.org
>
> (Alliance for the Separation of School & State)
>
> 1071 N Fulton St, Fresno CA 93728
>
> (559) 499-1776 fax 499-1703

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/15/04 4:22:06 PM, scubamama@... writes:

<< The evilness of socialism and collectivism is not the antithesis of

unschooling? >>

It's not the antithesis of the guy being helped by strangers at Burning Man.

There are lots of unschoolers who are also interested in designer communes,
too.

-=-How many dedicated sources are there in our conventional world to
non-collective

thinking?-=-

Any new project will seem new and exciting and free.
Any fifth annual will be more stodgy and rule-bound.
By tenth annual, the freedom-spark is gone.

That's true of just about everything.

The first year of a club or a commune or an event can be magical, and it
usually springs from the ideas and the work of an individual.

There are sure some rules at Burning Man, aren't there? Lots of rules.
There will be more.

The same happens with anything where one person is responsible for other
people's health and happiness.

I bet there are lots of lists on the internet where such things are the topic
of discussion all the time.

It seems that unschooling, though, can be engaged in by republicans and
democrats, socialists and communists and libertarians, because it's about how
people learn.

Sandra