Unschooling as a really great topic!
[email protected]
Hi all,
I'm in Chicago, and speaking in the morning. My hostess let me on the computer so I could write to my family and check e-mail. I've gone no-mail for lists so my box won't fill up before I'm home, so checking the new messages for this list I find lots about school, two about politics and none about unschooling.
Maybe a list for people whose children have gone back to school would be worth having, but I'd hate for AlwaysLearning to become that list.
If any of you were running a vegetarian list, you probably wouldn't want it to turn into a discussion of the first meats people ate when they went back to meat-eating. If you were running a breastfeeding discussion list, how long would you want a formula discussion to go on?
Brief comments about how unschoolers have reacted to school information, or what topics they've dealt with how aren't bad. That's about unschooling. But discussions about how to deal with teachers are about school, and teachers, and not about unschooling.
Who to vote for!? I don't care. Let's talk about how people learn, please, and about unschooling families and how they live.
If anyone wants to post links to lists where such questions would be better served, please feel free to do that. Thanks.
Sandra
I'm in Chicago, and speaking in the morning. My hostess let me on the computer so I could write to my family and check e-mail. I've gone no-mail for lists so my box won't fill up before I'm home, so checking the new messages for this list I find lots about school, two about politics and none about unschooling.
Maybe a list for people whose children have gone back to school would be worth having, but I'd hate for AlwaysLearning to become that list.
If any of you were running a vegetarian list, you probably wouldn't want it to turn into a discussion of the first meats people ate when they went back to meat-eating. If you were running a breastfeeding discussion list, how long would you want a formula discussion to go on?
Brief comments about how unschoolers have reacted to school information, or what topics they've dealt with how aren't bad. That's about unschooling. But discussions about how to deal with teachers are about school, and teachers, and not about unschooling.
Who to vote for!? I don't care. Let's talk about how people learn, please, and about unschooling families and how they live.
If anyone wants to post links to lists where such questions would be better served, please feel free to do that. Thanks.
Sandra
Gold Standard
"...checking the new messages for this list I find lots about school, two
about politics and none about unschooling."
I think we were just waiting for you ;)
Jacki
about politics and none about unschooling."
I think we were just waiting for you ;)
Jacki
eriksmama2001
I want to interject another perspective. I haven't been following
this whole thread, so it may have already been presented.
The pov is that the child doesn't really *want* all the trappings (no
pun intended) of school, but thinks that school is the best way to
get their needs met. I think this places more onus on the radically
unschooling parent to discover the *real needs* that the child is
trying to meet. Rather than assuming that what a child states they
need based on their awareness of the alternatives is a completely
informed choice. Increased alternatives that actually meet their
needs may well supplant the child's desire for school as the solution.
We were just discussing this in regards to cub scouts, ballet
lessons, music lessons, etc. on Anne Ohman's
[email protected] site. The issue is empowering
our children to discern their specific needs such as to 'challenge
themselves academically', 'social outlet', 'shared interests', 'more
responsibilities', 'separation from other siblings for periods of
time', 'desires to explore new interests', 'apprentice
opportunities', 'evaluation of their knowledge', 'ability to fit
in', 'desire to be a part of the community', 'desire to grow without
parental influence', etc. Develop and facilitate means of meeting
those *real needs* in a consensual manner that doesn't include the
negative aspects of school.
For example, David Albert's book "And The Skylark Sings For Me" talks
of community based learning. Apprenticeships are a possibility to
explore to meet many of the above needs. Developing social gatherings
for your community based on similar interests is hard work but can be
cultivated. The responsibilities of younger children can certainly
infringe on the parent's ability to meet the social and intellectual
needs of older children. Other adults can be sought to facilitate
interests of their children without succumbing to school as the "why
not give it a try" alternative.
I can conceptualize no inherently constructive benefit that is unique
to school that can not be discovered, developed or demonstrated
within the *real community* rather than the authoritarnian B.S. that
school entails. To conclude otherwise seems short-sighted at best and
disingenuous at worst. The effort needed to provide our children with
the tools to meet their needs must be modelled by us for them to
learn to problem solve outside the box. Otherwise, why not just send
them to the "school box" in the first place?
Pat
this whole thread, so it may have already been presented.
The pov is that the child doesn't really *want* all the trappings (no
pun intended) of school, but thinks that school is the best way to
get their needs met. I think this places more onus on the radically
unschooling parent to discover the *real needs* that the child is
trying to meet. Rather than assuming that what a child states they
need based on their awareness of the alternatives is a completely
informed choice. Increased alternatives that actually meet their
needs may well supplant the child's desire for school as the solution.
We were just discussing this in regards to cub scouts, ballet
lessons, music lessons, etc. on Anne Ohman's
[email protected] site. The issue is empowering
our children to discern their specific needs such as to 'challenge
themselves academically', 'social outlet', 'shared interests', 'more
responsibilities', 'separation from other siblings for periods of
time', 'desires to explore new interests', 'apprentice
opportunities', 'evaluation of their knowledge', 'ability to fit
in', 'desire to be a part of the community', 'desire to grow without
parental influence', etc. Develop and facilitate means of meeting
those *real needs* in a consensual manner that doesn't include the
negative aspects of school.
For example, David Albert's book "And The Skylark Sings For Me" talks
of community based learning. Apprenticeships are a possibility to
explore to meet many of the above needs. Developing social gatherings
for your community based on similar interests is hard work but can be
cultivated. The responsibilities of younger children can certainly
infringe on the parent's ability to meet the social and intellectual
needs of older children. Other adults can be sought to facilitate
interests of their children without succumbing to school as the "why
not give it a try" alternative.
I can conceptualize no inherently constructive benefit that is unique
to school that can not be discovered, developed or demonstrated
within the *real community* rather than the authoritarnian B.S. that
school entails. To conclude otherwise seems short-sighted at best and
disingenuous at worst. The effort needed to provide our children with
the tools to meet their needs must be modelled by us for them to
learn to problem solve outside the box. Otherwise, why not just send
them to the "school box" in the first place?
Pat
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm in Chicago, and speaking in the morning. My hostess let me on
the computer so I could write to my family and check e-mail. I've
gone no-mail for lists so my box won't fill up before I'm home, so
checking the new messages for this list I find lots about school, two
about politics and none about unschooling.
>
> Maybe a list for people whose children have gone back to school
would be worth having, but I'd hate for AlwaysLearning to become that
list.
>
> If any of you were running a vegetarian list, you probably wouldn't
want it to turn into a discussion of the first meats people ate when
they went back to meat-eating. If you were running a breastfeeding
discussion list, how long would you want a formula discussion to go
on?
>
> Brief comments about how unschoolers have reacted to school
information, or what topics they've dealt with how aren't bad.
That's about unschooling. But discussions about how to deal with
teachers are about school, and teachers, and not about unschooling.
>
> Who to vote for!? I don't care. Let's talk about how people
learn, please, and about unschooling families and how they live.
>
> If anyone wants to post links to lists where such questions would
be better served, please feel free to do that. Thanks.
>
> Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/11/2004 5:03:08 PM Central Standard Time,
scubamama@... writes:
The pov is that the child doesn't really *want* all the trappings (no
pun intended) of school, but thinks that school is the best way to
get their needs met. I think this places more onus on the radically
unschooling parent to discover the *real needs* that the child is
trying to meet. Rather than assuming that what a child states they
need based on their awareness of the alternatives is a completely
informed choice. Increased alternatives that actually meet their
needs may well supplant the child's desire for school as the solution.
~~~
Okay, if this is your "challenging" thought, I guess I just have to say that
it's been said and done and said and done over and over and over again among
unschoolers for a long long time. I've suggested it myself. It's not a
*new* idea that people are waiting with bated breath for Sandra to expound upon.
It's just hardly worth noting, once it's been said again.
There are hundreds of other possible reasons why no one responded to your
stroke of brilliance. That Sandra has not, yet, is not the first reason I
would settle upon.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
scubamama@... writes:
The pov is that the child doesn't really *want* all the trappings (no
pun intended) of school, but thinks that school is the best way to
get their needs met. I think this places more onus on the radically
unschooling parent to discover the *real needs* that the child is
trying to meet. Rather than assuming that what a child states they
need based on their awareness of the alternatives is a completely
informed choice. Increased alternatives that actually meet their
needs may well supplant the child's desire for school as the solution.
~~~
Okay, if this is your "challenging" thought, I guess I just have to say that
it's been said and done and said and done over and over and over again among
unschoolers for a long long time. I've suggested it myself. It's not a
*new* idea that people are waiting with bated breath for Sandra to expound upon.
It's just hardly worth noting, once it's been said again.
There are hundreds of other possible reasons why no one responded to your
stroke of brilliance. That Sandra has not, yet, is not the first reason I
would settle upon.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]