Another Aberration/Math Books
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/2/01 10:46:11 PM, [email protected] writes:
<< Now, someone tell me: What does math have to do with religion? Who
brought that up? How could they possibly be related or connected to
eachother? >>
I'd have to call myself an atheist -- though I'm not entirely sure that's
what best describes my usual state of confusion -- so maybe I'm not
particularly qualified to comment on this. But on the other hand, I am "good
at math" and I love it, and I find it is in many ways indistinguishable from
the spiritual beliefs I do have. Perhaps the closest I can come to a belief
in a god is believing in infinity.
We can start smaller and simpler though, with one -- the sense of self,
wholeness, independence, perfection, unity, consciousness, existence, center,
and many other concepts that flow from oneness. Beyond one, the universe
unfolds in amazingly complex and beautiful relationships of number, position,
shape, space, time, motion, change and so on in patterns, cycles, rhythms and
vibrations. Math is the study of all that. Math IS all that. It is a way of
understanding what is within our grasp, and of imagining what is beyond. It
is (for me), in addition to the symbolic and practical, the philosophical as
well.
Many civilizations have studied math to understand the sacred, and understood
math to be sacred in some respects. Religious art, symbolism, music and
architecture were often based on the "perfect" forms (geometry) found in
nature, perfect numbers (number theory), the mathematically determined
movement of heavenly bodies, etc.
We tend to relegate math to commercial purposes, for the most part, or at
least to think of it in that limited aspect. I wonder if that's an inevitable
result of pretending that it exists apart from everything else in the world
so that we can teach it efficiently? <eg>
Someone asked about books about math. I started to make a big long list, but
maybe it would be better to start with just a few.
A Beginner's Guide to Constructing the Universe: The Mathematical Archetypes
of Nature, Art and Science by Michael S. Schneider -- This one is
fascinating, odd, passionate, and occasionally flawed. Schneider takes a
journey of the numbers from 1 to 10, exploring the secular, symbolic, and
sacred aspects of math along the way. It's heavy on the visual (geometric)
archetypes in nature, art, science and religion (which ranges from the
ancient to the new age). The book is full of interesting quotes and
illustrations, and is almost worth it for those alone.
Mathematics: The Science of Patterns by Keith Devlin -- Devlin has written a
number of books that are good introductions to math, but this one is
especially good, imo. It also has great illustrations that really bring the
patterns to life. Though you'll encounter some formulas and notational stuff,
the emphasis is always on the significance of the particular concept in the
scope of things. This book is like a survey course in mathmatics, giving a
great overview, but not enough depth to be scary.
A Beautiful Mind by Sylvia Nasar -- If you like biographies (or even if you
don't)... this biography of mathematician John Nash is a fascinating glimpse
into the world of math and madness.
Fermat's Enigma by Simon Singh -- This one doesn't really fit into any neat
category, but it's one of my favorites.
Laura
<< Now, someone tell me: What does math have to do with religion? Who
brought that up? How could they possibly be related or connected to
eachother? >>
I'd have to call myself an atheist -- though I'm not entirely sure that's
what best describes my usual state of confusion -- so maybe I'm not
particularly qualified to comment on this. But on the other hand, I am "good
at math" and I love it, and I find it is in many ways indistinguishable from
the spiritual beliefs I do have. Perhaps the closest I can come to a belief
in a god is believing in infinity.
We can start smaller and simpler though, with one -- the sense of self,
wholeness, independence, perfection, unity, consciousness, existence, center,
and many other concepts that flow from oneness. Beyond one, the universe
unfolds in amazingly complex and beautiful relationships of number, position,
shape, space, time, motion, change and so on in patterns, cycles, rhythms and
vibrations. Math is the study of all that. Math IS all that. It is a way of
understanding what is within our grasp, and of imagining what is beyond. It
is (for me), in addition to the symbolic and practical, the philosophical as
well.
Many civilizations have studied math to understand the sacred, and understood
math to be sacred in some respects. Religious art, symbolism, music and
architecture were often based on the "perfect" forms (geometry) found in
nature, perfect numbers (number theory), the mathematically determined
movement of heavenly bodies, etc.
We tend to relegate math to commercial purposes, for the most part, or at
least to think of it in that limited aspect. I wonder if that's an inevitable
result of pretending that it exists apart from everything else in the world
so that we can teach it efficiently? <eg>
Someone asked about books about math. I started to make a big long list, but
maybe it would be better to start with just a few.
A Beginner's Guide to Constructing the Universe: The Mathematical Archetypes
of Nature, Art and Science by Michael S. Schneider -- This one is
fascinating, odd, passionate, and occasionally flawed. Schneider takes a
journey of the numbers from 1 to 10, exploring the secular, symbolic, and
sacred aspects of math along the way. It's heavy on the visual (geometric)
archetypes in nature, art, science and religion (which ranges from the
ancient to the new age). The book is full of interesting quotes and
illustrations, and is almost worth it for those alone.
Mathematics: The Science of Patterns by Keith Devlin -- Devlin has written a
number of books that are good introductions to math, but this one is
especially good, imo. It also has great illustrations that really bring the
patterns to life. Though you'll encounter some formulas and notational stuff,
the emphasis is always on the significance of the particular concept in the
scope of things. This book is like a survey course in mathmatics, giving a
great overview, but not enough depth to be scary.
A Beautiful Mind by Sylvia Nasar -- If you like biographies (or even if you
don't)... this biography of mathematician John Nash is a fascinating glimpse
into the world of math and madness.
Fermat's Enigma by Simon Singh -- This one doesn't really fit into any neat
category, but it's one of my favorites.
Laura
[email protected]
<< Beyond one, the universe
unfolds in amazingly complex and beautiful relationships of number, position,
shape, space, time, motion, change and so on in patterns, cycles, rhythms and
vibrations. >>
Sounds like the writing of someone who took a lot of drugs in the 70's.
Very seriously, the 1960's and 1970's saw the addition of a couple of things
in this culture: drug experimentation and mandala art. Jung's books about
the subconscious including especially the heavily illustrated "Man and his
Symbols" which was remaindered and in used book stores in the early 70's had
some great symmetrical pattern art. And that's not just in one culture
either. There are Navajo sand paintings, Hindu patterns, Tibetan sand
paintings, Chinese symbol patterns, and because they look like some patterns
people see when they're tripping, and because they exist in relation to
spiritual practices, people got (yet another) mental connection between
patterns and religion.
-=-Many civilizations have studied math to understand the sacred, and
understood
math to be sacred in some respects. Religious art, symbolism, music and
architecture were often based on the "perfect" forms (geometry) found in
nature, perfect numbers (number theory), the mathematically determined
movement of heavenly bodies, etc. -=-
I taught a workshop on medieval music a year or so ago, and one of the points
I made was that Gothic cathedrals had a connection to music of the time--they
were, in some eerie ways, transmitters. They were shaped as they were in
very numerical ways (the relative size of transept nave and other parts whose
names escape me, the height to width, the entire architecture building up to
point and spires. And inside those there was music, based on patterns of
perfection ("perfect" intervals, "perfect" chords), and harmonies (all of
which turn out to be straight math in physics-sense). They were trying to
communicate with God in code--trying to crack the perfection-patterns.
Sandra
unfolds in amazingly complex and beautiful relationships of number, position,
shape, space, time, motion, change and so on in patterns, cycles, rhythms and
vibrations. >>
Sounds like the writing of someone who took a lot of drugs in the 70's.
Very seriously, the 1960's and 1970's saw the addition of a couple of things
in this culture: drug experimentation and mandala art. Jung's books about
the subconscious including especially the heavily illustrated "Man and his
Symbols" which was remaindered and in used book stores in the early 70's had
some great symmetrical pattern art. And that's not just in one culture
either. There are Navajo sand paintings, Hindu patterns, Tibetan sand
paintings, Chinese symbol patterns, and because they look like some patterns
people see when they're tripping, and because they exist in relation to
spiritual practices, people got (yet another) mental connection between
patterns and religion.
-=-Many civilizations have studied math to understand the sacred, and
understood
math to be sacred in some respects. Religious art, symbolism, music and
architecture were often based on the "perfect" forms (geometry) found in
nature, perfect numbers (number theory), the mathematically determined
movement of heavenly bodies, etc. -=-
I taught a workshop on medieval music a year or so ago, and one of the points
I made was that Gothic cathedrals had a connection to music of the time--they
were, in some eerie ways, transmitters. They were shaped as they were in
very numerical ways (the relative size of transept nave and other parts whose
names escape me, the height to width, the entire architecture building up to
point and spires. And inside those there was music, based on patterns of
perfection ("perfect" intervals, "perfect" chords), and harmonies (all of
which turn out to be straight math in physics-sense). They were trying to
communicate with God in code--trying to crack the perfection-patterns.
Sandra
Jocelyn Vilter
>Soon to be a major motion picture, as they say<g>. To be released on Dec 25
> A Beautiful Mind by Sylvia Nasar -- If you like biographies (or even if you
> don't)... this biography of mathematician John Nash is a fascinating glimpse
> into the world of math and madness.
starring Russell Crowe. You can watch the trailer at
http://www.apple.com/trailers.
Has anyone here seen Pi? Strange and beautiful black and white movie about
one man's obsession with 3.14, and the people who would use him to further
their own agendas. Not for children, as some of the images are pretty
shocking and grim, but I've seen it twice and both times have come away with
something new to think about.
Jocelyn
Samantha Stopple
> << Beyond one, the universeSo does that mean it should be dismissed? or the
> unfolds in amazingly complex and beautiful
> relationships of number, position,
> shape, space, time, motion, change and so on in
> patterns, cycles, rhythms and
> vibrations. >>
>
> Sounds like the writing of someone who took a lot of
> drugs in the 70's.
information invalid? Or are you just being funny
because I am not sure...
> There are Navajo sand paintings, Hindu patterns,Making connection to other things isn't wrong is it?
>Tibetan sand paintings, Chinese symbol patterns, and
>because they look like some patterns people see when
>they're tripping, and because they exist in relation
>to spiritual practices, people got (yet another)
>mental connection between patterns and religion.
It's something i am trying to cultivate more in my
thinking. To draw connections not forced one but to be
open that their might be a conection to
see/understand.
> They wereI remember making a judgement on gothic buildings as
> shaped as they were in very numerical ways (the
>relative size of transept nave and other parts whose
> names escape me, the height to width, the entire
> architecture building up to point and spires. And
>inside those there was music, based on patterns of
> perfection ("perfect" intervals, "perfect" chords),
> and harmonies (all of which turn out to be straight
>math in physics-sense). They were trying to
> communicate with God in code--trying to crack the
> perfection-patterns.
stupid or something. Because if I remember correctly
we had had the technology previously to build
buildings without the need for all the arches to
support the walls. (at least I think I am remembering
it right) Yet when my instructor explained some of the
reasoning behind their choices and the mathematical
spiritual ideals I found I had a much greater
appreciation for the cathedrals.
Samantha
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zenmomma *
> > << Beyond one, the universeActually, my hubby did take a lot of drugs in the 70's. Hallucinogenics, in
> > unfolds in amazingly complex and beautiful
> > relationships of number, position,
> > shape, space, time, motion, change and so on in
> > patterns, cycles, rhythms and
> > vibrations. >>
> >
> > Sounds like the writing of someone who took a lot of
> > drugs in the 70's.
fact. He writes books and screenplays and journal articles and lots of
letters to the editor. He also writes computer code as part of his job. His
writing never sounds like this. Maybe he's got too many brain cells missing.
;-) LOL!
~Mary
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Dan Vilter
>> Sounds like the writing of someone who took a lot ofI know Sandra and Laura both (and I know they both know each other) and I'm
>> drugs in the 70's.
>
> So does that mean it should be dismissed? or the
> information invalid? Or are you just being funny
> because I am not sure...
sure she is joking.
-Dan Vilter
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/3/01 8:07:44 AM, JVilter@... writes:
<< Has anyone here seen Pi? Strange and beautiful black and white movie about
one man's obsession with 3.14, and the people who would use him to further
their own agendas. Not for children, as some of the images are pretty
shocking and grim, but I've seen it twice and both times have come away with
something new to think about.
Very sweet in a dark kind of way.
But not for children or me a second time (not too soon anyway).
Rainman's in interesting math movie too. I've always been fascinated by
the idea of idiot-savants, those who are functionally... non-functional.
Someone "retarded" in all but one slice of intelligence. A musician who
can't wipe his ass, or as in Rainman, someone with only math thoughts.
Do any of you know of any websites or books about that? Or have any of you
ever known a totally non-functional genius? I've known "absent minded
professors" for sure, but they're at least going to work, if without keys and
books sometimes.
Sandra
<< Has anyone here seen Pi? Strange and beautiful black and white movie about
one man's obsession with 3.14, and the people who would use him to further
their own agendas. Not for children, as some of the images are pretty
shocking and grim, but I've seen it twice and both times have come away with
something new to think about.
>>Yes.
Very sweet in a dark kind of way.
But not for children or me a second time (not too soon anyway).
Rainman's in interesting math movie too. I've always been fascinated by
the idea of idiot-savants, those who are functionally... non-functional.
Someone "retarded" in all but one slice of intelligence. A musician who
can't wipe his ass, or as in Rainman, someone with only math thoughts.
Do any of you know of any websites or books about that? Or have any of you
ever known a totally non-functional genius? I've known "absent minded
professors" for sure, but they're at least going to work, if without keys and
books sometimes.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/3/01 10:41:14 AM, sammimag@... writes:
<< > Sounds like the writing of someone who took a lot of
No.
-=-or the
information invalid?-=-
Not at all.
-=- Or are you just being funny because I am not sure... -=-
I'm not *just* being funny.
I'm rarely "just being funny."
Just because something's funny doesn't mean it's not profoundly true.
I wrote that because it sounded like the ideas many people had who took lots
of drugs in the 70's and I went on to expound on what the connection between
drugs and spirituality and patterns was.
So it was a joke, in a way, but it wasn't an insult and it wasn't without
value of meaning or intent.
Sandra, who is often joking, rarely saying nothing, and who took a lot of
drugs in the 70's
<< > Sounds like the writing of someone who took a lot of
> drugs in the 70's.-=-So does that mean it should be dismissed?-=-
No.
-=-or the
information invalid?-=-
Not at all.
-=- Or are you just being funny because I am not sure... -=-
I'm not *just* being funny.
I'm rarely "just being funny."
Just because something's funny doesn't mean it's not profoundly true.
I wrote that because it sounded like the ideas many people had who took lots
of drugs in the 70's and I went on to expound on what the connection between
drugs and spirituality and patterns was.
So it was a joke, in a way, but it wasn't an insult and it wasn't without
value of meaning or intent.
Sandra, who is often joking, rarely saying nothing, and who took a lot of
drugs in the 70's
Samantha Stopple
> So it was a joke, in a way, but it wasn't an insultThanks for the clarification. I asked because I sensed
> and it wasn't without value of meaning or intent.
humor yet I often view humor as negative rather than
positive/still valid. I also asked because I think the
prevailing attitude about drugs in our culture is
negative rather than positive.
>Samantha, who only did drugs a very little, often
> Sandra, who is often joking, rarely saying nothing,
> and who took a lot of
> drugs in the 70's
thinks and sometimes says something, rarely joking and
often very serious but maybe trying on the humorous
right now :)
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