[email protected]

Hi folks,

My daughter almost 10 did pick school again this year. I have 2 kids home, 7 and almost 5. We can not avoid the school culture, all went the first day to drop off Ashley. Though I smiled hard when my son was asked if he was joining school and he loudly said, No Way!.We live in a great community with lots of homeschooling activities and my son still suffers from not having friends to play with. He basically can't stand many of the children his own age and those who he does get along with have moved. He plays very well with those kids he decides fit his criteria. He has always gravitated towards young teens, kind of like finding a mentor where ever he goes. His recent exploration in friendship is with a local 12 year old who dives with him. Both boys enjoy eachother's company and spend unstructured time together often, well, not now that school has started. It was a great summer of sending Riley out to find Nate and the 2 of them spending the day together.

I find myself wondering how other families support friendship for their kids. It just doen't seem that getting kids together informally takes priority for most around here. I feel I am the one making the phone calls for my kids, hosting play, taking them to parks. I'm going to need to keep my radar up to pick out the next family to mesh with for Riley. Again a best buddy moved this summer. It takes time cultivating a mutual relationship with another family so play can happen often and spontaneously. Even in suburbia with kids all around, playing freely has become endangered.

Mary H.

Joanna Wilkinson

I'm sitting here, still helping Carly with her homework, by helping
her figure out sentences for the vocabulary words that were sent
home.
AHHHHH! We just spent 2 hours doing the 24 algebra problems she had
to complete.
I guess we are making up for the last 7 years we have been
unschooling. I can't imagine what my life would have been like all
these years if I had sent all of my kids to school.
How much would they care about this stuff now. How much would I
care if they got thier homework done, if we had been doing this all
along?
I know I shim shammed my way through high school because by the time
I got there, I had figured out how to.
Poor Carly (and me now) are taking this all way too seriously.
But I find myself worried to death that she is in over her head.
That I will be looked at as a negligent mother.
Damn, I should have come to the conference this year!
This is only day 2!
She was lost for a while in algebra today but as she relaxed,
started to get it.
All these years, whenever I would try to explain a math concept to
her (something like long division) she would get frustrated and say
it was stupid. Tonight, helping her with these algebra concepts, it
blew me away how she got things. I guess the drive to succeed is in
her.
She did say on the way home today, "how do people do this day in and
day out?" She said, with week long classes or camps, she has fun,
but is always ready for them to be over by the end and the thought
of 9 months is incomprehensible. But, she is determined to stick it
out for a while. She wants to atleast go to the Homecoming dance.
Socially, she is having no problems. She knows a lot of kids
through her acting in the childrens theater and then playing
softball this year and her cousin whose been in school all along and
lots of other things she has done over the years. The kids are
being really cool to her. She has girls to sit with at lunch, kids
to hang with in the morning, and even knows quite a few seniors from
her summer job at Frontier Town (western theme park).
That's what she is there for. Fun.
She is finding out, it's not all that, but at the same time, it is.
This is going to be very interesting.
I need to step back emotionally, but be there for her for her needs.
It's hard finding a balance.
I have Jack and Jamie here. We're still unschoolers and we don't
need this running our lives.
I'm sorry I kinda dropped off this list for a while.
I'm really sorry I missed the conference. I don't even want to hear
how absolutely cool it was.
Thanks to everyone who was so great to us at last years conference.
I wanted so much to be there this year, but Bob had a wedding to
play and with Carly going to school, I lost focus on what was really
important for us.
I think I need help finding my focus again!
I'm feeling like I should be preparing Jack and Jamie for the "just
in case", but also know I need to wait and see how Carly handles all
of this. Through it all I keep saying to myself the ol' unschooling
mantra, "Trust her". She is so absolutley brilliant, she'll fingure
out what she needs and how to get it. I just have to not screw it
up with my anxieties.
Okay, this is my first vent of this school year.
Joanna

Oh, funny story. During Freshman orientation, the teachers were
telling the kids what they needed for supplies. Carly's English
teacher was very specific about the size of the binder they needed
for his class.
Carly came home that day and asked, "Mom, what's a binder?"
She was totally clueless!
I can't wait for parent/teacher night.

Oh, and if anyone is thinking I am regretting unschooling.
Absolutely not!
I'm just freaking out about having to deal with the school system.

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/8/04 6:53:59 PM, Wilkinson6@... writes:

<< I'm really sorry I missed the conference. I don't even want to hear

how absolutely cool it was. >>

I wish your family had been there.

Maybe you've seen this, and maybe it will help a little:

http://sandradodd.com/schoolchoice

(And if it doesn't help, I hope it won't hurt any.)

Sandra

J. Stauffer

<<<<<<<Oh, and if anyone is thinking I am regretting unschooling.
> Absolutely not!
> I'm just freaking out about having to deal with the school system.>>>>>

I'm with you Joanne. My youngest three decided to try ps this year. It is
not so bad since I told the Kindergarten teacher we wouldn't be doing the
homework she assigned because Dan didn't want to......and she said "ok".

But it is very stressful. Good luck.

Julie S.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joanna Wilkinson" <Wilkinson6@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 7:52 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Back to school woes


> I'm sitting here, still helping Carly with her homework, by helping
> her figure out sentences for the vocabulary words that were sent
> home.
> AHHHHH! We just spent 2 hours doing the 24 algebra problems she had
> to complete.
> I guess we are making up for the last 7 years we have been
> unschooling. I can't imagine what my life would have been like all
> these years if I had sent all of my kids to school.
> How much would they care about this stuff now. How much would I
> care if they got thier homework done, if we had been doing this all
> along?
> I know I shim shammed my way through high school because by the time
> I got there, I had figured out how to.
> Poor Carly (and me now) are taking this all way too seriously.
> But I find myself worried to death that she is in over her head.
> That I will be looked at as a negligent mother.
> Damn, I should have come to the conference this year!
> This is only day 2!
> She was lost for a while in algebra today but as she relaxed,
> started to get it.
> All these years, whenever I would try to explain a math concept to
> her (something like long division) she would get frustrated and say
> it was stupid. Tonight, helping her with these algebra concepts, it
> blew me away how she got things. I guess the drive to succeed is in
> her.
> She did say on the way home today, "how do people do this day in and
> day out?" She said, with week long classes or camps, she has fun,
> but is always ready for them to be over by the end and the thought
> of 9 months is incomprehensible. But, she is determined to stick it
> out for a while. She wants to atleast go to the Homecoming dance.
> Socially, she is having no problems. She knows a lot of kids
> through her acting in the childrens theater and then playing
> softball this year and her cousin whose been in school all along and
> lots of other things she has done over the years. The kids are
> being really cool to her. She has girls to sit with at lunch, kids
> to hang with in the morning, and even knows quite a few seniors from
> her summer job at Frontier Town (western theme park).
> That's what she is there for. Fun.
> She is finding out, it's not all that, but at the same time, it is.
> This is going to be very interesting.
> I need to step back emotionally, but be there for her for her needs.
> It's hard finding a balance.
> I have Jack and Jamie here. We're still unschoolers and we don't
> need this running our lives.
> I'm sorry I kinda dropped off this list for a while.
> I'm really sorry I missed the conference. I don't even want to hear
> how absolutely cool it was.
> Thanks to everyone who was so great to us at last years conference.
> I wanted so much to be there this year, but Bob had a wedding to
> play and with Carly going to school, I lost focus on what was really
> important for us.
> I think I need help finding my focus again!
> I'm feeling like I should be preparing Jack and Jamie for the "just
> in case", but also know I need to wait and see how Carly handles all
> of this. Through it all I keep saying to myself the ol' unschooling
> mantra, "Trust her". She is so absolutley brilliant, she'll fingure
> out what she needs and how to get it. I just have to not screw it
> up with my anxieties.
> Okay, this is my first vent of this school year.
> Joanna
>
> Oh, funny story. During Freshman orientation, the teachers were
> telling the kids what they needed for supplies. Carly's English
> teacher was very specific about the size of the binder they needed
> for his class.
> Carly came home that day and asked, "Mom, what's a binder?"
> She was totally clueless!
> I can't wait for parent/teacher night.
>
> Oh, and if anyone is thinking I am regretting unschooling.
> Absolutely not!
> I'm just freaking out about having to deal with the school system.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

nellebelle

>>>>http://sandradodd.com/schoolchoice>>>>

I was going to suggest that too. And Guerilla Learning by Grace Llewellyn and Amy Silver.

My 11 yod wanted to check out middle school this year - 6th grade. She ended up going only two days (the first day and one day the second week of school), and even liked most of it, but I hated it! Although she liked it, she really wasn't excited about going every day (note she chose to attend only 2 of the first 7 days).

I had thought it would be easy to disassociate myself from caring about all the stuff that goes with school, grades especially. But when I called the attendance office the third day in a row to say that she didn't feel well, and they said I better come pick up her homework so she didn't fall behind, I realized how hard it would be to come up with plausible excuses if she only attended once per week or so.

School is so intrusive! The first day she came home with a rule book that she was supposed to discuss with a parent and both of us sign saying we'd discussed it. Whose homework is this supposed to be? Then there was the evening that she, her dad, and I sat around the table doing the math homework. I thought it was fun (factors) but it wasn't my assignment. And there were 80 of them. 80! Like 20 or 40 wouldn't be enough? I found myself wondering what *good parents* (in the eyes of the school) are supposed to do. Do we check her work so that it's all or mostly correct when she turns it in? Do we just make sure she finished?

In a way it's a disadvantage when these unschooled kids try school, because it can be a lot of fun, especially at first, and they are there by choice.

I was very worried that she would pick up on some of the negative aspects of schooling, even if she just went for a short time - things like learning to dislike a *subject*, for instance.

I had thoughts of telling her she couldn't go, but I didn't want her to be a forced homeschooler either. So I decided that I need to work harder at meeting her needs and desires as a homeschooler. A primary one for her right now is to spend more time with other young people. Since her neighborhood friends are all in school all day, I'm working very hard to both broaden our circle of unschooling and homeschooling friends and to spend more time with our very small group of sort of unschoolers or at least flexible homeschoolers.

I also made sure that her sister and I had lots of fun while she was at school. I think that helped <g>

Mary Ellen

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gold Standard

>> I had thought it would be easy to disassociate myself from caring about
all the stuff that goes with school, grades especially. But when I called
the attendance office the third day in a row to say that she didn't feel
well, and they said I better come pick up her homework so she didn't fall
behind, I realized how hard it would be to come up with plausible excuses if
she only attended once per week or so.<<

My 15 year old Andrew who desperately wanted to go to a local art charter
high school, but who unfortunately has had set backs in his life due to
having open-heart surgery in June, and who is "high-functioning autistic"
(just using the label for shorter writing), has called in sick for all but
one of the 17 days in session. Even without all that he has been through,
the start of the year may have been the same. He has finally decided to
unschool again. He's going to take a couple of the art classes as a
homeschooler. I am thrilled, but it has been difficult for him to both
decide, and feel good about. He does feel like he "just wasn't smart enough"
to do it, which is far far from the truth. I told him that it is a nutty
system to work within, and I point out the things that freedom brings him at
home, and I make sure we have fun every day for at least some of the time
(there appears to be only so much fun this 15 year old will have with his
mom :)). In any case, having to deal with the negative effects of ps when he
doesn't even go makes me a little nuts. But that is reality. His brother Max
IS going to this school, and enjoying it within limits (he is totally not
buying into the importance of much of the work given, and though he does his
homework, he says he does it "to appease the teacher...I'm not getting much
out of it").

One interesting thing I've noticed is that Andrew (the unschooler) is
sleeping in, writing his movie script, having snacks, doing computer stuff,
loving the dogs and cats, doing chores, writing his movie script and at
dinner time, is happy and relaxed. Max (high schooler) comes home cranky,
headachey, tired, and by dinner is complaining about stupid homework and
being controlled. I am really interested to see where this goes. I think it
makes Andrew feel better about his decision.

Is your daughter showing any distress about missing school? Maybe it will
just dissipate into unschooling again. Will her school allow her to go part
time as a homeschooler? Or just take some classes?

>>School is so intrusive!<<

Many schools/teachers as a matter of principle expect the parents and
families to plan around their agendas. It is SO arrogant!

>>I found myself wondering what *good parents* (in the eyes of the school)
are supposed to do. Do we check her work so that it's all or mostly correct
when she turns it in? Do we just make sure she finished?<<

I think the parents who do the above-mentioned activities do help their
child(ren) get better grades. I saw it a lot as a teacher. It really is a
stupid system. Comedian Brian Reagan does an hysterical bit about how
obvious it was which of his classmates in elementary school had parents
doing their projects. He compares the elaborate volcano complete with
emoting smoke and real-looking lava with his own project, a cup of dirt. By
the time the teacher gets to him, he says, "Just give me an F and move on
along...". I don't know how that comes off on email, but hearing him tell it
is funny because of the truth of it.

I think it comes back to what the goal is. Is it to help them get better
grades? To allow them to have these experiences and form opinions about
them? It can be hard to remember that "failing" in a class is no reflection
on a child in real life. Last night Max had too much homework. One of his
assignments was to write 300 words (I'm sure that particular number somehow
indicates his abilities) about a current event. He chose the Russian school
invasion and wrote a nice piece that ended up being 250 words. After
counting each word (I wonder if kids who go to ps can just eye the page to
know what is 300 words is. We sure couldn't!) he said, "I am so tired. Do I
really have to figure out 50 more words to write?" I said it was up to him.
He asked for some ideas, and I gave him some. Then he said, "Could you write
that?" And I happily said, "Sure!" (I love to write, maybe you've noticed)
and I added a piece to the report. In the morning he read it and gave
approval. I'm sure this probably broke rules left and right, both at the
school and maybe even in unschooling philosophy, but I enjoyed doing it, saw
how tired my guy was, and it just seemed like the right thing in the moment.
He rarely asks for my help, which is actually something I've had to be very
aware of with him, and I jumped at the chance to help him. If it was algebra
or Spanish however, I would have smiled and said, "Sorry".

>>I was very worried that she would pick up on some of the negative aspects
of schooling, even if she just went for a short time - things like learning
to dislike a *subject*, for instance.<<

This is a sad consequence of ps. Maybe if we keep fun things going on at
home around "disliked subjects" it may counteract that.

>>I also made sure that her sister and I had lots of fun while she was at
school. I think that helped <g><<

I love this idea.

Jacki

Sandra Dodd

-=-Many schools/teachers as a matter of principle expect the parents and
families to plan around their agendas. It is SO arrogant!-=-

I think all of them do.

For starters, they tell you where to be and what you can be wearing, what you
can and cannot have with you, what you MUST have with you.

They say "bring $5" or "bring $30" or "your parents have to sign this" or "your
parents have to be here for a meeting with the counsellor/principal."

One year I had two of my teachers say in the same week or so, "Nothing is as
important in your life as my class." Huh. Maybe those should've arm wrestled
for supremacy in my life. And what about the other four classes? And when
did I get some life?

-=-I think the parents who do the above-mentioned activities do help their
child(ren) get better grades. I saw it a lot as a teacher. -=-

Some parents work hard to help with homework and neither the child nor the
parent understands it because the homework was crazy, so they spend a
couple of hours frustrated and maybe in tears, and the kid still doesn't get a
good grade.

I'm glad to have spared Kirby all that, but as he never experienced it, he can't
appreciate the benefit. Ironic.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/8/2004 8:53:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Wilkinson6@... writes:

<<Poor Carly (and me now) are taking this all way too seriously.
But I find myself worried to death that she is in over her head.
That I will be looked at as a negligent mother.>>


My oldest daughter attended 7th grade at a large public school. She only
went for one year, and one of the deciding factors in not going back was that
it took so much out of school time and in many ways controlled the whole
family. But we were very serious about it. Emily wanted to have the top grades
in the class and participate in every activity. And I helped her with
everything including 2 hours of homework every night.

Recently her sister, who will be 7th grade age next year, has said that she
would like to attend next year to see what it is like. Emily was there when
she said it, and she freaked out! She said, "You can't let her go! It will
take so much time, and it will be stressful and bad for her." But then we
discussed it and using ideas that I had learned from various online unschooling
resources, I was able to show Emily that the problem was that we had taken
everything so seriously. Paige could go to school, and neither of us would
care about grades. She would just take what she wanted out of the experience.
And leave when she was done. Emily agreed that with that attitude it just
might work.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joanna Wilkinson

<<Then he said, "Could you write
that?" And I happily said, "Sure!" (I love to write, maybe you've
noticed)
and I added a piece to the report. In the morning he read it and gave
approval. I'm sure this probably broke rules left and right, both at
the
school and maybe even in unschooling philosophy, but I enjoyed doing
it, saw
how tired my guy was, and it just seemed like the right thing in the
moment.>>

Seems like the right thing to me too.

I reread the article Sandra. Thanks, it helped.
She's off to school for another day. I need to relax and have fun
with Jack and Jamie today. No more stressing!
Joanna

marji

At 07:16 9/9/04, you wrote:
>Recently her sister, who will be 7th grade age next year, has said that she
>would like to attend next year to see what it is like. Emily was there when
>she said it, and she freaked out! She said, "You can't let her go! It will
>take so much time, and it will be stressful and bad for her." But then we
>discussed it and using ideas that I had learned from various online
>unschooling
>resources, I was able to show Emily that the problem was that we had taken
>everything so seriously. Paige could go to school, and neither of us would
>care about grades. She would just take what she wanted out of the
>experience.
> And leave when she was done. Emily agreed that with that attitude it just
>might work.

I just want to pipe up and say that I have such tremendous admiration for
moms (and dads and sisters and brothers) who support an unschooler trying
out school. I think it really takes a lot to get one's self out of the way
and be present for his or her kids in a truly supportive way, even when
that kid makes a choice that one would otherwise bristle at.

Marji, getting her nose back to the grindstone.

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/9/04 5:20:08 AM, ivorygrace7@... writes:

<< I was able to show Emily that the problem was that we had taken
everything so seriously. Paige could go to school, and neither of us would
care about grades. She would just take what she wanted out of the
experience.
And leave when she was done. Emily agreed that with that attitude it just
might work. >>

Please be careful to let them know throughout that bad grades won't mean
anything other than "didn't play the game right," in such a case. Maybe even
playing a game with them purposely to lose could help enforce that point.
Sometimes we've messed with the WORST moves possible in a game. It's as telling as
the best moves. All part of the same analysis.

Sandra

nellebelle

>>>>Paige could go to school, and neither of us would
care about grades. She would just take what she wanted out of the experience.>>>>

That was my intention. I didn't really think through how important the system and the grades are to everyone else.

Most people, especially those who buy into the importance of school, cannot understand kids and parents who don't care about grades. Kids who don't care about grades are looked down on by classmates and teachers. They are thought of as lazy or dumb or unmotivated. On this list we understand that school is like a game and grades absolutely do not reflect a child's intelligence. That isn't the case in the school world.

I also worried how her perceived performance would reflect on homeschooling. I know a few teachers and have heard them talk about homeschoolers returning to school. It is rare that they paint a pretty picture. Of course, they are usually seeing those families for whom homeschooling didn't work out and that is why they are going back to school. I do know families locally whose homeschooled children go to school part time for particular classes, but those kids are usually playing really hard at the school game while they are there, so they generally give a *good impression* of homeschooling.

The number of unschooled children who hang out at school just to enjoy the bits and pieces they like while not giving a hoot about playing the game is probably very, very, very small.

Maybe I shouldn't care about what others think, but I do. When I interact with others while representing my family as homeschoolers, I want them to at least think we are reasonable people and that my kids are doing fine with this choice. I certainly don't have time to explain to everyone at the school why and how we live our lives as we do. But the fact is that they will form opinions of homeschoolers and homeschooling based on their interaction with those children who come into school from homeschooling.

One other thing - Lisa's school experience has given me the opportunity to explore how far I am willing to go to support her making choices that I'm not happy with.

Mary Ellen

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/9/04 10:28:16 AM, nellebelle@... writes:

<< Kids who don't care about grades are looked down on by classmates and
teachers. They are thought of as lazy or dumb or unmotivated. >>

Not by all of them. If the kid is otherwise sharp and interesting there are
some teachers and lots of kids who will understand a lack grade-focus.

-=-I know a few teachers and have heard the
Zm talk about homeschoolers returning to school. It is rare that they paint
a pretty picture. Of course, they are usually seeing those families for whom
homeschooling didn't work out and that is why they are going back to school.
-=-

Or they're seeing unschoolers who don't know the lingo, or don't recognize
mathematical notation even though they can do some pretty fancy math in their
heads.

-=-The number of unschooled children who hang out at school just to enjoy the
bits and pieces they like while not giving a hoot about playing the game is
probably very, very, very small.-=-

Undoubtedly very small.
My nephew did, and he ended up in trouble at school a few times. He was
inciting dangerous laziness in others. That wasn't ideal. He knew he could go
home when he was unhappy, but he wasn't fully realizing that other kids had
worse consequences waiting at home.

Sandra

Elizabeth Hill

**

I also worried how her perceived performance would reflect on homeschooling. I know a few teachers and have heard them talk about homeschoolers returning to school. It is rare that they paint a pretty picture. **

When I hear teacher's quoted talking about underprepared homeschooled kids, I notice a high level of consistency in what they say. (Like repeating a party line slogan.) It's so high that I think they are just repeating one or two of the same stories that have been talked up in faculty meetings and spread around like urban legends.

Did the stories you heard appear to be about specific local kids that the teacher's had personally taught, or was it fuzzier stuff?

Betsy

Elizabeth Hill

**

I also worried how her perceived performance would reflect on homeschooling. I know a few teachers and have heard them talk about homeschoolers returning to school. It is rare that they paint a pretty picture.**

(sent the last post too soon)

I've heard quite a bit of anecdotal evidence that college professors see homeschoolers favorably and really enjoy their unsullied enthusiasm for learning.

Betsy

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/9/04 11:12:50 AM, ecsamhill@... writes:

<< I've heard quite a bit of anecdotal evidence that college professors see
homeschoolers favorably and really enjoy their unsullied enthusiasm for
learning. >>

I think there's a flatline in the curve for unschooled kids around 10, 11,
12. That is, I mean, if their curve is compared to school's ideal curve, or
even to the jump in what kids at school do at those ages.

Young unschoolers are impressive, and older unschoolers are impressive, but
sometimes in the middle they don't compare as well. I think because they're
still playing happily, and school is in those days putting the press on for
cursive writing, long division, multiplication of fractions, band starts for those
learning instruments, sports...

So about the time the unschoolers stretch and yawn, hit puberty and take
their merry selves out into the world to do cool things, the kids at school are
FED UP, and their puberty happens in a less safe place, and some of them decide
they've learned about enough about how not to learn, and some of them stop
learning in any noticeable way after they're 14 or so.

There will be badillion exceptions but a bunch of matches, too.

I learned TONS at 14 and 15, but mostly music-related things and mostly not
at school.

Sandra

averyschmidt

> I think there's a flatline in the curve for unschooled kids around
10, 11,
> 12. That is, I mean, if their curve is compared to school's ideal
curve, or
> even to the jump in what kids at school do at those ages.
> Young unschoolers are impressive, and older unschoolers are
impressive, but
> sometimes in the middle they don't compare as well.

I'm in the thick of this right now.
There's even an obvious absence of homeschoolers of that age in my
community- perhaps because the pressure is so great at that age for
the reasons you've said?
There are lots of little homeschooled kids whose mothers are
enthusiastically going where attachment parenting has taken them.
There are also lots of homeschooled teens who were formally schooled
but left because of problems or school burn-out. Not much in the
middle, except for my kids and a very few spread out others.
So all of their friends are schooled at the moment, and it's an
effort on my part to diffuse the inevitable comparisons that on the
surface would look like homeschooling failure to a school-think
person.

Patti

Gold Standard

I just had to report that at dinner tonight, my high schooler Max said, "I'm
thinking about unschooling again. I just want to do some stuff that I don't
have time for with school."

Woohoo!

He's still thinking though
:)
Jacki

Joanna Wilkinson

> Or they're seeing unschoolers who don't know the lingo, or don't
recognize
> mathematical notation even though they can do some pretty fancy
math in their
> heads.
>


This is what's happening with Carly.
Math seems to be her only real hurdle. The notations are completely
foreign to her. But as soon as it's explained, she is grasping the
concepts. Yesterday at the beginning of her math class, the teacher
called her and 5 other kids and told them they were not in the right
class because they hadn't taken the Algebra I placement test.
She was sent to another class where, she said, they do most of their
work on computers. Today she has to take an assessment test. So,
last night I googled a pre algebra online test. She took it and
only got 3 right. I took it and was pretty clueless myself. I
couldn't remember a lot of things, and I passed college algebra.
I'm not going to look very good in the eyes of this teacher on
parent/teacher night. In her other classes she seems to be doing
well. She particiapates in the class discussion and I know anyone
who talks to her realizes she is intelligent. The math teacher will
probably realize this too. But I'll look like I didn't do my job
here at home.
I'm thinking of exuses of why she isn't up to par on math, that sort
of explain unschooling , but also make it seem like we were going to
get to it eventually. Like, I'm thinking of lying and saying I was
planning on getting a tutor for her this year, because when I tried
to teach her math, she always balked, and having to be held
accountable by someone other than me seems to get her rolling.
I'll also explain that I wasn't planning on her ever going to high
school, but she sprung it on me this summer and though I told her
she wasn't prepared for a highschool math class, she decided to go
for it anyway. That part is true.
I'll also talk up her intelligence and make it seem that, with a
little extra help, I think she really can handle it.

Like I said, I'm still kinda freaking out here. My mom has been
totally awesome. She keeps saying things like, "She'll figure it
out", "who cares if she doesn't do well, she's there to have fun"
We both consider ourself bad at math, and were laughing yesterday
about how we got through our highschool algebra by cheating a lot.
I didn't actually understand algebra til I got to college and really
tried hard. Yet I made it through 2 years of high school algebra
with "C's".

So do you think I should even bother to try to explain anything to
anyone?
Should I even show up?
Should I stop thinking about all of this and let what happens,
happen?
I haven't felt this unsure about anything since I started thinking
about homeschooling 8 years ago.
Joanna

J. Stauffer

<<<<< So do you think I should even bother to try to explain anything to
> anyone?
> Should I even show up?>>>>

Seeing as how I'm going through this same thing but at a younger level, I
will tell you how I would handle it.

I would go to the parent/teacher night.....in fact, I would probably try to
meet with the teacher anyway. I would talk about how in how we have been
unschooling, the kids come across mathematical concepts often and easily
FIRST and the notation tends to come later when kids actually NEED it.
While at home, she simply hadn't needed it yet, but being in school, she
does. I would talk to the teacher about how she would suggest I help my dd
understand the notation part.

In other words, I would try to do some "team building" with the teacher in
order to support my child's choice.

My youngest wanted to go to K this year. It is difficult for me. The
teacher wants Michelle to be rhyming words and hearing alliteration.
Michelle doesn't do those things, she likes to paint. Michelle LOVES
school....says things like "we won't have to sleep too long and then its
school time. Yay!!!" <sigh>

She wants to do well but doesn't yet understand that to do well she needs
the reading skills while still in K. Michelle loves to do her "work", in
fact has asked the teacher for additional homework. In order to support her
as best I can, I have volunteered to help out in the class so I can see how
the teacher is presenting the material and help give Michelle a context.

Julie S.---who is amazed at the turns life takes

Julie S
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joanna Wilkinson" <Wilkinson6@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 9:00 AM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Back to school woes


> > Or they're seeing unschoolers who don't know the lingo, or don't
> recognize
> > mathematical notation even though they can do some pretty fancy
> math in their
> > heads.
> >
>
>
> This is what's happening with Carly.
> Math seems to be her only real hurdle. The notations are completely
> foreign to her. But as soon as it's explained, she is grasping the
> concepts. Yesterday at the beginning of her math class, the teacher
> called her and 5 other kids and told them they were not in the right
> class because they hadn't taken the Algebra I placement test.
> She was sent to another class where, she said, they do most of their
> work on computers. Today she has to take an assessment test. So,
> last night I googled a pre algebra online test. She took it and
> only got 3 right. I took it and was pretty clueless myself. I
> couldn't remember a lot of things, and I passed college algebra.
> I'm not going to look very good in the eyes of this teacher on
> parent/teacher night. In her other classes she seems to be doing
> well. She particiapates in the class discussion and I know anyone
> who talks to her realizes she is intelligent. The math teacher will
> probably realize this too. But I'll look like I didn't do my job
> here at home.
> I'm thinking of exuses of why she isn't up to par on math, that sort
> of explain unschooling , but also make it seem like we were going to
> get to it eventually. Like, I'm thinking of lying and saying I was
> planning on getting a tutor for her this year, because when I tried
> to teach her math, she always balked, and having to be held
> accountable by someone other than me seems to get her rolling.
> I'll also explain that I wasn't planning on her ever going to high
> school, but she sprung it on me this summer and though I told her
> she wasn't prepared for a highschool math class, she decided to go
> for it anyway. That part is true.
> I'll also talk up her intelligence and make it seem that, with a
> little extra help, I think she really can handle it.
>
> Like I said, I'm still kinda freaking out here. My mom has been
> totally awesome. She keeps saying things like, "She'll figure it
> out", "who cares if she doesn't do well, she's there to have fun"
> We both consider ourself bad at math, and were laughing yesterday
> about how we got through our highschool algebra by cheating a lot.
> I didn't actually understand algebra til I got to college and really
> tried hard. Yet I made it through 2 years of high school algebra
> with "C's".
>
> So do you think I should even bother to try to explain anything to
> anyone?
> Should I even show up?
> Should I stop thinking about all of this and let what happens,
> happen?
> I haven't felt this unsure about anything since I started thinking
> about homeschooling 8 years ago.
> Joanna
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

Gold Standard

>>She particiapates in the class discussion and I know anyone
who talks to her realizes she is intelligent. The math teacher will
probably realize this too. But I'll look like I didn't do my job
here at home.<<

I think you're right about this. Many teachers would automatically think
that. I just went through something similar. My daughter who is in her first
year of trying public school (7th grade) took a placement test beforehand.
There was a part where she had to fill out a United States map the best she
could. She froze in panic. She couldn't fill out one state. She went to the
teacher and said she didn't know any of this. The teacher said, "Well, why
don't you just fill out your home state then." Then Hannah teared up...she
didn't know that either. When she got into the car, she cried and cried that
she was too stupid to go to public school. She said the people around her
knew everything, and she didn't. She asked me why I didn't teach her the
things other kids learned by her age. My first feeling was pure and utter
guilt, then I gathered my intelligence up and remembered the answer to that
question. We went over all that she did know, about the difference between
intelligence and "memorized knowledge, and she seemed to feel a lot better.
And wouldn't you know she had the whole United States memorized within a
week (amazing what incentive does!). If I had tried to make her memorize the
United States map, it wouldn't have happened in any timely or meaningful
manner.

I did talk to the teacher and explained how upset it made Hannah that she
didn't know the geography. The teacher agreed that she was a bit surprised.
I explained our homeschooling philosophy, but chose to use "learning through
living" and "following our interests" rather than "unschooling". She seemed
not only accepting, but actually interested. She nodded her head a whole
bunch saying that she wished schools were more like that. She talked about
how disillusioned she was about being a teacher when she started out...she
didn't realize how much drudgery there was in the work in the ps system. So
luckily for us, this teacher was still connected to reality. She also
mentioned that Hannah was so bright and inquisitive in the classroom which
she doesn't see from a lot of students at this age. Go figure.

>>I'm thinking of exuses of why she isn't up to par on math, that sort
of explain unschooling , but also make it seem like we were going to
get to it eventually. Like, I'm thinking of lying and saying I was
planning on getting a tutor for her this year, because when I tried
to teach her math, she always balked, and having to be held
accountable by someone other than me seems to get her rolling.
I'll also explain that I wasn't planning on her ever going to high
school, but she sprung it on me this summer and though I told her
she wasn't prepared for a highschool math class, she decided to go
for it anyway. That part is true.
I'll also talk up her intelligence and make it seem that, with a
little extra help, I think she really can handle it.<<

I think all of these ideas are great. Whatever makes it easier for her and
you. You have good reason for making the choices you did, and whether they
understand it or not doesn't matter. If lying or exaggerating is needed to
get through to people who don't understand that your daughter may have to
deal with, so be it. Some people will understand, some won't. You may be the
first opportunity they have to "get" something like this though. Maybe it
will be a seed that their grandchildren benefit from!


>>So do you think I should even bother to try to explain anything to
anyone?
Should I even show up?
Should I stop thinking about all of this and let what happens,
happen?<<

IMO, since you are her mother, this may be an area that she needs your help
in. Even though unschooling is a fabulous choice, ultimately, as the adults
we did make the choice, and there are ramifications that effect our children
if they try out school. I think we should try to help them succeed as we
would with anything they may have tried at home, provided they want us to.

Jacki

[email protected]

Joanna wrote:

<<<<< My mom has been totally awesome. She keeps saying things
like, "She'll figure it out", "who cares if she doesn't do well,
she's there to have fun" >>>>>

Keep listening to this. . . . . . <g>


<<<<< Like I said, I'm still kinda freaking out here. >>>>>

<<<<< So do you think I should even bother to try to explain
anything to anyone? Should I even show up? >>>>>


As someone who's children did go back to high school (one from
homeschooling, no mindful parenting and the other from unschooling
but no mindful parenting) I know it can be hard to disinvest yourself
in their schooling.


I would not go to the parent/teacher night if you are still freaking
out. The mind-set of all the parents/teachers there will be so
different from yours, it could be discouraging. The teachers usually
have a set speech and talk about grades, classroom expectations,
grades, rules and grades. Did I mention they discuss grades? Not
much there you really need to know.


<<<<< Should I stop thinking about all of this and let what happens,
happen? >>>>>


I wouldn't stop thinking, though, either. <g>


Julie wrote:

<<<<< I would go to the parent/teacher night.....in fact, I would
probably try to meet with the teacher anyway. I would talk about how
in how we have been unschooling, the kids come across mathematical
concepts often and easily FIRST and the notation tends to come later
when kids actually NEED it. While at home, she simply hadn't needed
it yet, but being in school, she does. I would talk to the teacher
about how she would suggest I help my dd understand the notation
part. >>>>>


Well, you already know what I think about parent/teacher night at
the middle/high school level but I really like the rest of this
advice. Meet with the teacher alone (parent/teacher night can be
stressful for teachers too) and try to get the teacher on your
team. I also think it would make a big difference to let the teacher
know that your child is there by choice (and it's not what
you'd have
chosen - <g>) and that grades are not a concern of yours at all but
that learning is.

Oh, I just remembered that at some high schools teachers won't/can't
meet with a parent alone. They usually want a witness present.
(trusting atmosphere, those high schools) If that's the case, you
could just show up after school one day, maybe, and meet with the
teacher informally. Just sort of, "Hi. How's it going? By the
way. . . ."


Getting the teacher on your team depends a lot on the teacher,
though.


Mercedes
who almost always heard the comment that the seat I selected to sit
in during the parent/teacher nights was the same seat Nick sat in
during the day - this happened all 4 years in almost every class
(Twilight Zone music inserted here. . . . )

It didn't happen in the classes with assigned seating <g>

[email protected]

Betsy wrote:

<<<<< When I hear teacher's quoted talking about underprepared
homeschooled kids, I notice a high level of consistency in what they
say. (Like repeating a party line slogan.) It's so high that I
think they are just repeating one or two of the same stories that
have been talked up in faculty meetings and spread around like urban
legends.

Did the stories you heard appear to be about specific local kids that
the teacher's had personally taught, or was it fuzzier stuff? >>>>>



To respond to the more fuzzy stuff, I have concrete examples of
school "horrors" that I tell.

One story that happened to a friend's son in science class at a
local middle school.

One story about a teacher that was accused of improper relations with
several students at the high school. He's still teaching
there(after
a year of paid administrative leave - the length of time it took the
arbitration board to determine that his relationships didn't
affect his ability to teach).

And then, in response to any "underprepared" homeschooler
stories, I say something like:

"Wow. I didn't realize that every student you get at the
beginning of every year is at or above grade level in every subject.
It must be a very good school.."

in a polite, admiring tone.

Mercedes
who would tell the stories but thinks that might not be the best use
of an unschooling list. . . .