Model of the universe
[email protected]
-=-Thanks! It was at LEAST 6 or 7 years ago when we first discussed that on
AOL. It was very profound for me and one of the things that most helped me
on
my way to unschooling. -=-
You're welcome.
I don't remember which professor said it. I think it was a philosophy class
and we were meeting outside. It was a weird idea which i rejected. She
didn't use the term "model of the universe," but the idea that the universe exists
inside us was so strange to me that it bothered me that she had said it. <g>
So I carried it around like a rock in my shoe for a while. And I was taking
a lot of educational psychology classes in those days, and literature (English
major) and I started to realize that I had the Bible in my head, and not only
the version I had been taught in Sunday schooll, but the one I had read
myself and pondered, and what I knew about the Catholic Bible and the differences,
and the history of the Bible, and traditions and superstitions about the Bible
(the black spot passage from Treasure Island), and translations (my friend's
dad had translated the New Testament into Tewa, the language of the pueblos on
either side of my home town). I realized the the Bible in my head was HUGE.
Bigger than a single real Bible.
And my head was filling up with other stories and characters and ideas (with
their histories and refutations) and maps and charts and relationships of
people real and current, dead, fictional...
So in adding to that what I was reading about cognition and memory, I started
to see all that as building a model. I still think about it.
One long "wonder"/fantasy I had since I was nine or ten was the idea of
changing brains, or looking through someone else's eyes to see if the colors seemed
the same or other things seemed the same. And I still think about that too,
sometimes. Having kids stirred it up.
My dad saw things much in terms of construction. He was always aware of
where water and sewer lines were, electrical lines, bearing walls, water walls.
He saw the whole world that way, in terms of access and drainage and
stability. I wouldn't have understood his sorting and analysis, from inside of him.
He wouldn't have understood my categorizing people sometimes by their place
of origin, their religion, their chosen/intended social goal/position. He
didn't much care about that, though he could converse with me when I brought
things up. He knew (but didn't much care <g>) that someone from Alabama was
going to react to a set of circumstances differently from someone from Oregon
would. He has a Depression/WWII overlay on his world. I didn't.
So each person's perspective is unique. But "a unique perspective" is a
teensier concept than the idea that each person's model of the universe is
ever-growing and hugely elaborate, and each person sees THAT world, in a way.
If people are interested in this, I want to talk about associations we have
with things (how they're connected or categorized), but if it's not to be an
ongoing topic that's fine too. I've written too much. <G>
Sandra
AOL. It was very profound for me and one of the things that most helped me
on
my way to unschooling. -=-
You're welcome.
I don't remember which professor said it. I think it was a philosophy class
and we were meeting outside. It was a weird idea which i rejected. She
didn't use the term "model of the universe," but the idea that the universe exists
inside us was so strange to me that it bothered me that she had said it. <g>
So I carried it around like a rock in my shoe for a while. And I was taking
a lot of educational psychology classes in those days, and literature (English
major) and I started to realize that I had the Bible in my head, and not only
the version I had been taught in Sunday schooll, but the one I had read
myself and pondered, and what I knew about the Catholic Bible and the differences,
and the history of the Bible, and traditions and superstitions about the Bible
(the black spot passage from Treasure Island), and translations (my friend's
dad had translated the New Testament into Tewa, the language of the pueblos on
either side of my home town). I realized the the Bible in my head was HUGE.
Bigger than a single real Bible.
And my head was filling up with other stories and characters and ideas (with
their histories and refutations) and maps and charts and relationships of
people real and current, dead, fictional...
So in adding to that what I was reading about cognition and memory, I started
to see all that as building a model. I still think about it.
One long "wonder"/fantasy I had since I was nine or ten was the idea of
changing brains, or looking through someone else's eyes to see if the colors seemed
the same or other things seemed the same. And I still think about that too,
sometimes. Having kids stirred it up.
My dad saw things much in terms of construction. He was always aware of
where water and sewer lines were, electrical lines, bearing walls, water walls.
He saw the whole world that way, in terms of access and drainage and
stability. I wouldn't have understood his sorting and analysis, from inside of him.
He wouldn't have understood my categorizing people sometimes by their place
of origin, their religion, their chosen/intended social goal/position. He
didn't much care about that, though he could converse with me when I brought
things up. He knew (but didn't much care <g>) that someone from Alabama was
going to react to a set of circumstances differently from someone from Oregon
would. He has a Depression/WWII overlay on his world. I didn't.
So each person's perspective is unique. But "a unique perspective" is a
teensier concept than the idea that each person's model of the universe is
ever-growing and hugely elaborate, and each person sees THAT world, in a way.
If people are interested in this, I want to talk about associations we have
with things (how they're connected or categorized), but if it's not to be an
ongoing topic that's fine too. I've written too much. <G>
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/30/2004 11:45:02 AM Central Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
But "a unique perspective" is a
teensier concept than the idea that each person's model of the universe is
ever-growing and hugely elaborate, and each person sees THAT world, in a way.
~~
Sometimes I see connections that the people around me would never see. And
sometimes I think I'm really goofy when I see them, and that I couldn't
possibly defend them to my more rational and linear thinking husband. He thinks
I'm goofy sometimes, too, but WORSE is that sometimes he claims that those
connections don't exist.
They do. My mind races through them sometimes and I can't even remember how
I got from uttering "Jones Center" to "the new roof on the studio." But the
connections were there and I got "here" from "there" and it made sense in my
mind and what does it matter that he can't get it? From my point of view it
looks just right.
I love "ever-growing and hugely elaborate". Such possibilities.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
But "a unique perspective" is a
teensier concept than the idea that each person's model of the universe is
ever-growing and hugely elaborate, and each person sees THAT world, in a way.
~~
Sometimes I see connections that the people around me would never see. And
sometimes I think I'm really goofy when I see them, and that I couldn't
possibly defend them to my more rational and linear thinking husband. He thinks
I'm goofy sometimes, too, but WORSE is that sometimes he claims that those
connections don't exist.
They do. My mind races through them sometimes and I can't even remember how
I got from uttering "Jones Center" to "the new roof on the studio." But the
connections were there and I got "here" from "there" and it made sense in my
mind and what does it matter that he can't get it? From my point of view it
looks just right.
I love "ever-growing and hugely elaborate". Such possibilities.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Marti G
Sandra wrote:
body this way or that would "feel" the same if you were in someone
else's body, or if the human body were arranged differently, or...
previous paragraph, I was pondering how I always seemed odd to my
friends when I said things like that ("Do we all see the same colors
in the same way?") **or** things like, "Do you ever wonder just how
many toilets there are in that square block of buildings over there?
That's a lot of flushing per square block."
Guess I fall somewhere on the philosophical spectrum between you and
your dad! :-)
something and place it neatly (or not so neatly) into my inside map of
How The World Works... and it will often fit **right there** in that
spot because that's where it goes, because that information belongs on
that spot of my map.
But I get great insight watching my girls take the same piece of
information, and place it on *their* maps in an entirely different
way, because their maps are young and fresh and not nearly as crowded
with earlier construction as mine is. And watching how they take
information and categorize it in a new and fresh way can teach me a
lot.
I can't think of a single example at the moment, which is frustrating,
because I'm an example person, not a theory person... but there was
something we were talking about last weekk, and I realized how
thoroughly used and jaded my paradigm was, and how refreshing it was
to see them pondering this info in a really new and fresh way. But
darned if I can remember what is was now :-(
Marti G
Smithsburg MD
> One long "wonder"/fantasy I had since I was nine or ten was the idea ofI dream about those things! Whether or not the "feel" of moving your
> changing brains, or looking through someone else's eyes to see if the colors seemed
> the same or other things seemed the same. And I still think about that too,
> sometimes. Having kids stirred it up.
body this way or that would "feel" the same if you were in someone
else's body, or if the human body were arranged differently, or...
> My dad saw things much in terms of construction. He was always aware ofNow this had me laughing out loud, because just after I read the
> where water and sewer lines were,
previous paragraph, I was pondering how I always seemed odd to my
friends when I said things like that ("Do we all see the same colors
in the same way?") **or** things like, "Do you ever wonder just how
many toilets there are in that square block of buildings over there?
That's a lot of flushing per square block."
Guess I fall somewhere on the philosophical spectrum between you and
your dad! :-)
> each person's model of the universe isOne of the interesting perks of parenting my girls is how I learn
> ever-growing and hugely elaborate, and each person sees THAT world, in a way.
something and place it neatly (or not so neatly) into my inside map of
How The World Works... and it will often fit **right there** in that
spot because that's where it goes, because that information belongs on
that spot of my map.
But I get great insight watching my girls take the same piece of
information, and place it on *their* maps in an entirely different
way, because their maps are young and fresh and not nearly as crowded
with earlier construction as mine is. And watching how they take
information and categorize it in a new and fresh way can teach me a
lot.
I can't think of a single example at the moment, which is frustrating,
because I'm an example person, not a theory person... but there was
something we were talking about last weekk, and I realized how
thoroughly used and jaded my paradigm was, and how refreshing it was
to see them pondering this info in a really new and fresh way. But
darned if I can remember what is was now :-(
Marti G
Smithsburg MD
Elizabeth Hill
**
Sometimes I see connections that the people around me would never see. And
sometimes I think I'm really goofy when I see them, and that I couldn't
possibly defend them to my more rational and linear thinking husband. **
I can relate! Sometimes I think my brain is "wired sideways", because I jump off on goofy side tangents most of the time. I find bizarre humor in even the dullest situations. <g>
Maybe our brains are "loopy", that is connected in curly spiral paths instead of boring straight lines.
My husband does prefer to stick to one topic for more than 25 seconds, so I'm trying to learn not to go down every branching side path in the conversation.
Betsy
Sometimes I see connections that the people around me would never see. And
sometimes I think I'm really goofy when I see them, and that I couldn't
possibly defend them to my more rational and linear thinking husband. **
I can relate! Sometimes I think my brain is "wired sideways", because I jump off on goofy side tangents most of the time. I find bizarre humor in even the dullest situations. <g>
Maybe our brains are "loopy", that is connected in curly spiral paths instead of boring straight lines.
My husband does prefer to stick to one topic for more than 25 seconds, so I'm trying to learn not to go down every branching side path in the conversation.
Betsy
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/30/2004 1:15:37 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
ecsamhill@... writes:
Maybe our brains are "loopy", that is connected in curly spiral paths instead
of boring straight lines.
==========
They have a search function better than google's!!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ecsamhill@... writes:
Maybe our brains are "loopy", that is connected in curly spiral paths instead
of boring straight lines.
==========
They have a search function better than google's!!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/30/2004 3:06:33 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
martig@... writes:
I get great insight watching my girls take the same piece of
information, and place it on *their* maps in an entirely different
way, because their maps are young and fresh and not nearly as crowded
with earlier construction as mine is. And watching how they take
information and categorize it in a new and fresh way can teach me a
lot.
------------
We play a game called "Encore" here, and have now played it so many times we
can tell what the game does from what the different groups of people to. What
I mean is the first five times we played we thought "with this group, it
plays like this," or 'with a bigger group it plays like this..."
After maybe 20 sessions over the past eight or nine years, though, it started
showing its own self.
First, people get excited and all perked up.
After half an hour they start to get frustrated and sludgy.
Another half hour, and ideas aren't coming. It's like an exhausting head
ache (not "headache" the traditional things, but like sore-muscles brain-tired.
Trying to think but can't lift a synapse. <g>
For the next day or two ideas keep coming unbidden.
The game involves thinking of songs with a certain word, or songs in a
certain category. Teams take turns singing at least eight words of the song
containing that phrase.
People are FULL of song lyrics they can access, even non-singers. TONS of
them.
But it seems that using this new search/scan method re-routes or stirs up
brain parts that have been quietly minding their own business, so it can make the
rest of the party different, more interesting, good conversation connections.
There are dice and cards, and each card will have five words and a category,
like (thinking of things we did the last time, not quoting a single card)
blue
sixteen
happy
wonder
train
seasons (that last is "category," so whatever the other team accepts is
fine--could be summer, spring, autumn, fall, winter, or "in this season of my
life" )
We pulled "Disney songs" on 4th of July, and that could've gone on for hours
by itself, so we called it a draw and got another card.
Oh. Another thing the game does by itself is cause people to stop keeping
score after a while. It's too fun and its so intrinsically entertaining that
everybody's winning.
And it has very little to do with a model of the universe, but it's a little
like hooking your brain up to a diagnostic test that gives you an
incomprehensible printout. And I don't know about anyone else, but I totally enjoy stuff
like that!
Sandra
P.S. The game is out of print. We heard another was coming out but I haven't
seen it yet. And if you find used one don't worry a bit if it's missing
parts. All you need is some cards and dice. We use a kitchen timer when/if we
bother to time turns at all. The playing board is not much fun and we usually
leave it in the box.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
martig@... writes:
I get great insight watching my girls take the same piece of
information, and place it on *their* maps in an entirely different
way, because their maps are young and fresh and not nearly as crowded
with earlier construction as mine is. And watching how they take
information and categorize it in a new and fresh way can teach me a
lot.
------------
We play a game called "Encore" here, and have now played it so many times we
can tell what the game does from what the different groups of people to. What
I mean is the first five times we played we thought "with this group, it
plays like this," or 'with a bigger group it plays like this..."
After maybe 20 sessions over the past eight or nine years, though, it started
showing its own self.
First, people get excited and all perked up.
After half an hour they start to get frustrated and sludgy.
Another half hour, and ideas aren't coming. It's like an exhausting head
ache (not "headache" the traditional things, but like sore-muscles brain-tired.
Trying to think but can't lift a synapse. <g>
For the next day or two ideas keep coming unbidden.
The game involves thinking of songs with a certain word, or songs in a
certain category. Teams take turns singing at least eight words of the song
containing that phrase.
People are FULL of song lyrics they can access, even non-singers. TONS of
them.
But it seems that using this new search/scan method re-routes or stirs up
brain parts that have been quietly minding their own business, so it can make the
rest of the party different, more interesting, good conversation connections.
There are dice and cards, and each card will have five words and a category,
like (thinking of things we did the last time, not quoting a single card)
blue
sixteen
happy
wonder
train
seasons (that last is "category," so whatever the other team accepts is
fine--could be summer, spring, autumn, fall, winter, or "in this season of my
life" )
We pulled "Disney songs" on 4th of July, and that could've gone on for hours
by itself, so we called it a draw and got another card.
Oh. Another thing the game does by itself is cause people to stop keeping
score after a while. It's too fun and its so intrinsically entertaining that
everybody's winning.
And it has very little to do with a model of the universe, but it's a little
like hooking your brain up to a diagnostic test that gives you an
incomprehensible printout. And I don't know about anyone else, but I totally enjoy stuff
like that!
Sandra
P.S. The game is out of print. We heard another was coming out but I haven't
seen it yet. And if you find used one don't worry a bit if it's missing
parts. All you need is some cards and dice. We use a kitchen timer when/if we
bother to time turns at all. The playing board is not much fun and we usually
leave it in the box.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nancy Wooton
on 7/30/04 2:41 PM, SandraDodd@... at SandraDodd@... wrote:
think) which showed a mouse swimming around in a tank of water, searching
for a platform in the tank where it could rest. The experiment had to do
with learning; the mouse would be taken out and put right back in, over and
over. The result was, with each repetition, it took more time, not less,
for the mouse to find the platform. If they let the mouse rest outside the
tank for a period of time -- a half hour or 45 minutes, something like that
-- it found the platform much more quickly.
According to the program, mice and men learn the same way -- we have
chemicals which "fire" in our brains as we learn, and when the chemicals are
depleted -- in a half hour or so -- we can't learn anymore. We need to take
a break while the chemicals "reset" in the used-up pathways.
When my kids and I play "SET," one of us will be on fire for a few minutes,
then start failing to see any Sets; then someone else will find the most for
awhile.
The experiment suggested that classes which last 45 minutes and longer are
pretty much worthless -- that people learn in shorter sessions with long
rest periods.
Nancy
> First, people get excited and all perked up.Some time ago, there was a short "filler" film on Discovery Channel (I
>
> After half an hour they start to get frustrated and sludgy.
>
> Another half hour, and ideas aren't coming. It's like an exhausting head
> ache (not "headache" the traditional things, but like sore-muscles
> brain-tired.
> Trying to think but can't lift a synapse. <g>
think) which showed a mouse swimming around in a tank of water, searching
for a platform in the tank where it could rest. The experiment had to do
with learning; the mouse would be taken out and put right back in, over and
over. The result was, with each repetition, it took more time, not less,
for the mouse to find the platform. If they let the mouse rest outside the
tank for a period of time -- a half hour or 45 minutes, something like that
-- it found the platform much more quickly.
According to the program, mice and men learn the same way -- we have
chemicals which "fire" in our brains as we learn, and when the chemicals are
depleted -- in a half hour or so -- we can't learn anymore. We need to take
a break while the chemicals "reset" in the used-up pathways.
When my kids and I play "SET," one of us will be on fire for a few minutes,
then start failing to see any Sets; then someone else will find the most for
awhile.
The experiment suggested that classes which last 45 minutes and longer are
pretty much worthless -- that people learn in shorter sessions with long
rest periods.
Nancy
Angela
I always wondered if there was some way I could make money from all the
song lyrics I have in my head. Someone might say something that quotes some
part of a song and I am singing it in my head or aloud, to some people's
dismay.
Angela ~ whose second dd covered her mouth when she was just baby, every
time she sang. LOL!
game-enthusiast@...
Sandra wrote:
song lyrics I have in my head. Someone might say something that quotes some
part of a song and I am singing it in my head or aloud, to some people's
dismay.
Angela ~ whose second dd covered her mouth when she was just baby, every
time she sang. LOL!
game-enthusiast@...
Sandra wrote:
> People are FULL of song lyrics they can access, even non-singers. TONSof
> them.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed][Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/31/2004 6:34:21 AM Central Standard Time,
game-enthusiast@... writes:
I always wondered if there was some way I could make money from all the
song lyrics I have in my head. Someone might say something that quotes some
part of a song and I am singing it in my head or aloud, to some people's
dismay.
~~~
I don't think Name That Tune is on TV anymore, but that would be one way! :)
I know lyrics when I hear the music, or some other thing triggers a
particular song, but I can't spontaneously spout lyrics, or jokes for that matter. I
would suck at Encore. My son Jon can recite many lines from TV, movies,
songs, lots and lots of jokes. If you give him a noun he can recall a line
relating to it. My filing system is different. I am amazed at his ability.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
game-enthusiast@... writes:
I always wondered if there was some way I could make money from all the
song lyrics I have in my head. Someone might say something that quotes some
part of a song and I am singing it in my head or aloud, to some people's
dismay.
~~~
I don't think Name That Tune is on TV anymore, but that would be one way! :)
I know lyrics when I hear the music, or some other thing triggers a
particular song, but I can't spontaneously spout lyrics, or jokes for that matter. I
would suck at Encore. My son Jon can recite many lines from TV, movies,
songs, lots and lots of jokes. If you give him a noun he can recall a line
relating to it. My filing system is different. I am amazed at his ability.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kerrin or Ralph
Someone might say something that quotes some
occasion!
Kerrin.
> part of a song and I am singing it in my head or aloud, to some people'sI so this all the time! And it's always aloud! I have a song for every
> dismay.
occasion!
Kerrin.
kayb85
> P.S. The game is out of print. We heard another was coming out butI haven't
> seen it yet.Is it this?
http://www.boardgames.com/encore.html
Sheila
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/6/04 10:37:32 PM, sheran@... writes:
<<
Is it this?
http://www.boardgames.com/encore.html >>
Yeah!!
We have the older edition, but this is the one. Thanks for finding that. A
local store here keeps saying they'll have them when they're out... They
didn't a week ago.
Sandra
<<
Is it this?
http://www.boardgames.com/encore.html >>
Yeah!!
We have the older edition, but this is the one. Thanks for finding that. A
local store here keeps saying they'll have them when they're out... They
didn't a week ago.
Sandra