identity and wanting to "belong"
Jennifer and Scott Lynch
I have read this discussion about TCS etc. with a great deal of interest not
because I really want to know what TCS says (although that is interesting
too). I am very interested to hear about/from people who belong to a lot of
groups or espouse many different philosophies or theories in contrast with
those people who just live life in the way they want/see fit, without any
particular books or theories leading them. We are all on an unschooling
discussion list so clearly we have all sought out this "community," many of
us have had past experience with La Leche League, in fact an extraordinary
number of us are or were Leaders, there are people on this list who often
talk about their SCA participation or sports or a religious institution--we
are already living our lives outside the "norm" in our country by
unschooling. I find it absolutely fascinating to learn about how others
create identities for themselves and their families and find ways to
"belong" while living this "outside the box" life.
I guess the point of my email is to ask people to think about, or write to
the list about what kind of affiliations they find helpful in their lives.
I haven't heard of most of the organizations mentioned on this list. I was
a LLL Leader so I know about things along that route. I guess our family
doesn't really affiliate ourselves with any particular philosophy, we don't
even call ourselves "unschoolers." That may change, at this point we are a
family of three (2 adults and a 4 year old) who like each other and have way
more fun together than other families we know.
I saw a bumper sticker I liked today it said "You may all be laughing at ME
because I'm different, but I am laughing at YOU because you are all the
same."
Just a few thoughts,
Jen Lynch (who also has a bizarre interest in infomercials and their role in
creating and reflecting identity)
because I really want to know what TCS says (although that is interesting
too). I am very interested to hear about/from people who belong to a lot of
groups or espouse many different philosophies or theories in contrast with
those people who just live life in the way they want/see fit, without any
particular books or theories leading them. We are all on an unschooling
discussion list so clearly we have all sought out this "community," many of
us have had past experience with La Leche League, in fact an extraordinary
number of us are or were Leaders, there are people on this list who often
talk about their SCA participation or sports or a religious institution--we
are already living our lives outside the "norm" in our country by
unschooling. I find it absolutely fascinating to learn about how others
create identities for themselves and their families and find ways to
"belong" while living this "outside the box" life.
I guess the point of my email is to ask people to think about, or write to
the list about what kind of affiliations they find helpful in their lives.
I haven't heard of most of the organizations mentioned on this list. I was
a LLL Leader so I know about things along that route. I guess our family
doesn't really affiliate ourselves with any particular philosophy, we don't
even call ourselves "unschoolers." That may change, at this point we are a
family of three (2 adults and a 4 year old) who like each other and have way
more fun together than other families we know.
I saw a bumper sticker I liked today it said "You may all be laughing at ME
because I'm different, but I am laughing at YOU because you are all the
same."
Just a few thoughts,
Jen Lynch (who also has a bizarre interest in infomercials and their role in
creating and reflecting identity)
heather mclean
<...I find it absolutely fascinating to learn about
how others create identities for themselves and their
families and find ways to "belong" while living this
"outside the box" life.
I guess the point of my email is to ask people to
think about, or write to the list about what kind of
affiliations they find helpful in their lives....>
Our (dh & I) two main communities are our church (UU)
and our homeschool group. I'm very involved in both.
My dh works at home and has an on-line work
community but nothing in real life for the most part.
I only went to one LLL meeting before my son (now 8)
was born & I didn't enjoy it so I never went back. I
was a member of a local Moms Club for awhile, but I
thought the monthly meetings were boring and dropped
it finally. But I did meet a couple of great friends
there.
Oh, and I'm in a small babysitting co-op. Started by
a friend at my church, so there is lots of overlap.
My dh & I started dancing last year, so we now also
"belong" to the West Coast Swing dancing community :)
heather
tucson
how others create identities for themselves and their
families and find ways to "belong" while living this
"outside the box" life.
I guess the point of my email is to ask people to
think about, or write to the list about what kind of
affiliations they find helpful in their lives....>
Our (dh & I) two main communities are our church (UU)
and our homeschool group. I'm very involved in both.
My dh works at home and has an on-line work
community but nothing in real life for the most part.
I only went to one LLL meeting before my son (now 8)
was born & I didn't enjoy it so I never went back. I
was a member of a local Moms Club for awhile, but I
thought the monthly meetings were boring and dropped
it finally. But I did meet a couple of great friends
there.
Oh, and I'm in a small babysitting co-op. Started by
a friend at my church, so there is lots of overlap.
My dh & I started dancing last year, so we now also
"belong" to the West Coast Swing dancing community :)
heather
tucson
Angela
<...I find it absolutely fascinating to learn about
how others create identities for themselves and their
families and find ways to "belong" while living this
"outside the box" life.
I guess the point of my email is to ask people to
think about, or write to the list about what kind of
affiliations they find helpful in their lives....>
=======================================================
I've have no affiliations with any groups and I am perfectly fine with that.
I've finally gotten to a point in my life that I am happy just being me and
I don't feel any need to belong to any group unless that group is serving a
purpose for me at that time. I wouldn't hesitate to join a group if it were
going to help me out or if I wanted to help them out, but I don't feel a
need to define myself by who I am affiliated with. I felt a strong
affiliation with the word *unschooler* for several years but now it doesn't
matter to me either way. For those several years that I felt very connected
to that identity I wanted to shout from the roof tops all that I had
discovered. I've pretty much figured out that most people either don't feel
like they have a choice or don't think they can do it. I've settled into
enjoying our easy laid back life and I've stopped feeling the need to share
it with others unless I know they are genuinely interested and feel it's a
possibility for them. I am comfortable just being me, not affiliated with
anyone.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
how others create identities for themselves and their
families and find ways to "belong" while living this
"outside the box" life.
I guess the point of my email is to ask people to
think about, or write to the list about what kind of
affiliations they find helpful in their lives....>
=======================================================
I've have no affiliations with any groups and I am perfectly fine with that.
I've finally gotten to a point in my life that I am happy just being me and
I don't feel any need to belong to any group unless that group is serving a
purpose for me at that time. I wouldn't hesitate to join a group if it were
going to help me out or if I wanted to help them out, but I don't feel a
need to define myself by who I am affiliated with. I felt a strong
affiliation with the word *unschooler* for several years but now it doesn't
matter to me either way. For those several years that I felt very connected
to that identity I wanted to shout from the roof tops all that I had
discovered. I've pretty much figured out that most people either don't feel
like they have a choice or don't think they can do it. I've settled into
enjoying our easy laid back life and I've stopped feeling the need to share
it with others unless I know they are genuinely interested and feel it's a
possibility for them. I am comfortable just being me, not affiliated with
anyone.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Some years back, early 80's I think, I read an article that discussed
identification and belonging in the changing world, and it said that people will
identify with another person over common preference, like a favorite drink or
candy bar.
At the time I thought that too extreme, or maybe just coming out of applied
psychology research for advertising. But since then I've seen something
similar happening, and it makes sense after all to me.
It happens with hair, and automobiles, favorite TV shows, "fandom" of various
sorts (anime, science fiction, particular movies or characters like
Highlander, Beauty and the Beast TV series), and now lately with websites and video
games.
There are people who play Halo and who get all the jokes on Red vs. Blue.
There are people who can converse in the manner of Sinfest (we got Kirby a
Sinfest t-shirt years back, with a martial arts theme, and he told some stories
of who would recognize it and what they would say). There are homestarrunner
fans.
It gives people something in common.
Where they live isn't as "in common" as what they like, or how they live, or
what they support or concentrate on.
Our next door neighbors don't take good care of their dog. They're not "dog
people." But their kid does softball or little league or whatever and their
team won some district thing so their car was painted up and their visitors
praise and congratulate him heartily. So one other family in our cul-de-sac
identifies with that aspect of their lives, because they are "sports people."
It's a big topic. The possibility for it affecting how people make decisions
from where they live, to decorating their houses, to what car to own, to how
their kids find mates is that many other topics, maybe.
Sandra
identification and belonging in the changing world, and it said that people will
identify with another person over common preference, like a favorite drink or
candy bar.
At the time I thought that too extreme, or maybe just coming out of applied
psychology research for advertising. But since then I've seen something
similar happening, and it makes sense after all to me.
It happens with hair, and automobiles, favorite TV shows, "fandom" of various
sorts (anime, science fiction, particular movies or characters like
Highlander, Beauty and the Beast TV series), and now lately with websites and video
games.
There are people who play Halo and who get all the jokes on Red vs. Blue.
There are people who can converse in the manner of Sinfest (we got Kirby a
Sinfest t-shirt years back, with a martial arts theme, and he told some stories
of who would recognize it and what they would say). There are homestarrunner
fans.
It gives people something in common.
Where they live isn't as "in common" as what they like, or how they live, or
what they support or concentrate on.
Our next door neighbors don't take good care of their dog. They're not "dog
people." But their kid does softball or little league or whatever and their
team won some district thing so their car was painted up and their visitors
praise and congratulate him heartily. So one other family in our cul-de-sac
identifies with that aspect of their lives, because they are "sports people."
It's a big topic. The possibility for it affecting how people make decisions
from where they live, to decorating their houses, to what car to own, to how
their kids find mates is that many other topics, maybe.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/25/04 5:46:42 AM, game-enthusiast@... writes:
<< I've have no affiliations with any groups and I am perfectly fine with
that. >>
But you're a game-enthusiast and chose to advertise that. <g>
Isn't that an affiliation?
What about screennames? Lots of people on the unschooling lists have
screennames about parenting or their children or homeschooling.
-=- I felt a strong
affiliation with the word *unschooler* for several years but now it doesn't
matter to me either way. For those several years that I felt very connected
to that identity I wanted to shout from the roof tops all that I had
discovered. I've pretty much figured out that most people either don't feel
like they have a choice or don't think they can do it. I've settled into
enjoying our easy laid back life and I've stopped feeling the need to share
it with others unless I know they are genuinely interested and feel it's a
possibility for them.-=-
I think sometimes there's an infatuation period with new things, and that can
be really good for the cause, or the group. It's kind of like being in love,
biochemically and emotionally (if those can be separated, and if they can't
I'm being redundant). I was really dedicated to helping people breastfeed for
years, and now I'm not. It came up a a week ago at a party, and someone
said, "Oh, are you a possible resource for new moms? My daughter in law is about
to have a baby." I was seriously hesitant, even though the woman was a friend
of mine. I said yes in the most almost-no way I can remember having said it.
<g> And another friend just had a baby this week. Two days before
(induction, about which I was grumping when he told me), I was talking to him about
circumcision and birth issues and they were all new thoughts for him, so I didn't
even bother to ask if the mom was planning to breastfeed. I decided not
caring was easier than caring. I'm not in love with that anymore, with my
youngest being 12.
But some people make a more long-term relationship with the thing they're
involved in (church, LLL, environmentalism, whatever) and that's fine. They're
probably all experienced with the waves of newcomers who have two or three
years of real fervor in them and then it fades. I think both are normal and
natural.
"No missionary like a convert," they say.
Sandra
<< I've have no affiliations with any groups and I am perfectly fine with
that. >>
But you're a game-enthusiast and chose to advertise that. <g>
Isn't that an affiliation?
What about screennames? Lots of people on the unschooling lists have
screennames about parenting or their children or homeschooling.
-=- I felt a strong
affiliation with the word *unschooler* for several years but now it doesn't
matter to me either way. For those several years that I felt very connected
to that identity I wanted to shout from the roof tops all that I had
discovered. I've pretty much figured out that most people either don't feel
like they have a choice or don't think they can do it. I've settled into
enjoying our easy laid back life and I've stopped feeling the need to share
it with others unless I know they are genuinely interested and feel it's a
possibility for them.-=-
I think sometimes there's an infatuation period with new things, and that can
be really good for the cause, or the group. It's kind of like being in love,
biochemically and emotionally (if those can be separated, and if they can't
I'm being redundant). I was really dedicated to helping people breastfeed for
years, and now I'm not. It came up a a week ago at a party, and someone
said, "Oh, are you a possible resource for new moms? My daughter in law is about
to have a baby." I was seriously hesitant, even though the woman was a friend
of mine. I said yes in the most almost-no way I can remember having said it.
<g> And another friend just had a baby this week. Two days before
(induction, about which I was grumping when he told me), I was talking to him about
circumcision and birth issues and they were all new thoughts for him, so I didn't
even bother to ask if the mom was planning to breastfeed. I decided not
caring was easier than caring. I'm not in love with that anymore, with my
youngest being 12.
But some people make a more long-term relationship with the thing they're
involved in (church, LLL, environmentalism, whatever) and that's fine. They're
probably all experienced with the waves of newcomers who have two or three
years of real fervor in them and then it fades. I think both are normal and
natural.
"No missionary like a convert," they say.
Sandra
Dana Matt
--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
a birthday...He was so shy I know I wouldn't have
pursued a relationship with him if it hadn't been for
that commonality between us--funny as that sounds 17
years later ;)
(We got married on our birthday, and had our first
child on our birthday as well ;)
Dana
in Montana
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> Some years back, early 80's I think, I read anMy husband and I first became friends because we share
> article that discussed
> identification and belonging in the changing world,
> and it said that people will
> identify with another person over common preference,
> like a favorite drink or
> candy bar.
a birthday...He was so shy I know I wouldn't have
pursued a relationship with him if it hadn't been for
that commonality between us--funny as that sounds 17
years later ;)
(We got married on our birthday, and had our first
child on our birthday as well ;)
Dana
in Montana
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Kay Alina
Some years back, early 80's I think, I read an article that discussed
identification and belonging in the changing world, and it said that people will
identify with another person over common preference, like a favorite drink or
candy bar.
************************************************************************
I have been thinking about the "identity" question and enjoying the responses. Maybe it's the theme of the week for me because I just finished
reading an anthropological study on marriage and community yesterday too.
I realized even three year olds bond over common preferences. They will do
it over underwear. "Look I have Power Rangers too!" It opens up a conversation. I had an experience last week of having a blind date with a mom and her kids at a local park. We had conversed through a yahoo group and we had unschooling as a commonality. They stopped by after the park because I wanted to share some of the fish we caught in Alaska. While
she was in the kitchen she saw a picture I had and asked a question and we
both realized we had something very personal in common. I feel very linked
to her because of the common preference. We also had a great playdate.
I realized in the last month or so none of my friends were AP or unschooling. We get together for playdates regularly but I realized it would be in my families best interest if I broaden our horizons and try to make some connections within our local community with others of "like mind." I have never really thought of myself as a "group" person although I was involved in the 12 step community for some time. We are not involved with a church and have very few family members. I never clicked with the Mom's club in our area and the friends we have now we met in Kindermusik a couple of years ago. So, thanks to the internet and yahoo groups we have recently joined both unschooling, homeschooling the gifted, and attachment parenting groups to find local get togethers. I am really not a social creature but I feel it is one of those consensual things I need to do for Alex's needs as well as my own. It is quite humbling to my ego to admit I want to "belong" somewhere. That's where I am at the moment. Grateful that there is commonality in our large county and grateful to connect.
Kay
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
identification and belonging in the changing world, and it said that people will
identify with another person over common preference, like a favorite drink or
candy bar.
************************************************************************
I have been thinking about the "identity" question and enjoying the responses. Maybe it's the theme of the week for me because I just finished
reading an anthropological study on marriage and community yesterday too.
I realized even three year olds bond over common preferences. They will do
it over underwear. "Look I have Power Rangers too!" It opens up a conversation. I had an experience last week of having a blind date with a mom and her kids at a local park. We had conversed through a yahoo group and we had unschooling as a commonality. They stopped by after the park because I wanted to share some of the fish we caught in Alaska. While
she was in the kitchen she saw a picture I had and asked a question and we
both realized we had something very personal in common. I feel very linked
to her because of the common preference. We also had a great playdate.
I realized in the last month or so none of my friends were AP or unschooling. We get together for playdates regularly but I realized it would be in my families best interest if I broaden our horizons and try to make some connections within our local community with others of "like mind." I have never really thought of myself as a "group" person although I was involved in the 12 step community for some time. We are not involved with a church and have very few family members. I never clicked with the Mom's club in our area and the friends we have now we met in Kindermusik a couple of years ago. So, thanks to the internet and yahoo groups we have recently joined both unschooling, homeschooling the gifted, and attachment parenting groups to find local get togethers. I am really not a social creature but I feel it is one of those consensual things I need to do for Alex's needs as well as my own. It is quite humbling to my ego to admit I want to "belong" somewhere. That's where I am at the moment. Grateful that there is commonality in our large county and grateful to connect.
Kay
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/25/04 9:06:39 AM, hoffmanwilson@... writes:
<< (We got married on our birthday, and had our first
child on our birthday as well ;) >>
THAT IS COOL!
Sandra
<< (We got married on our birthday, and had our first
child on our birthday as well ;) >>
THAT IS COOL!
Sandra
Angela
Angela wrote:
<< I've have no affiliations with any groups and I am perfectly fine with
that. >>
Sandra wrote:
But you're a game-enthusiast and chose to advertise that. <g>
Isn't that an affiliation?
================================================================
Is it? It says something about me, but it doesn't really affiliate me with
a particular group of people.
==================================================================
What about screennames? Lots of people on the unschooling lists have
screennames about parenting or their children or homeschooling.
=========================================================================
I guess I see screen names differently than identifying myself with a group.
(church, LLL, homeschool group, knitting group, book club, etc.) I think
screen names can identify something about you (that I love games) without
affiliating you with a group.
We recently got a new email server and I had to come up with a new email
name. It was such a hard decision. (life's hard when you hardest decision is
your email address. LOL!) Over the last 4 plus years my email has been
unschooling@------. And I kept the unschooling part even when we changed
providers. This last change I decided to step away from identifying myself
to the world as "unschooling". Sometimes there are times when I want to be
more discreet about who I am and what we do. (or don't do) Everyone I know,
it seems, comes up with such cute, creative email addresses. I drew a total
blank at first. We were on a roll of playing Who-ville Opoly at the time
and I almost picked Grinched or Whobilation. I ended up picking something
more broad but on the same topic. We just love games at our house and I did
want my email to say *something* about me while at the same time not causing
too much controversy in any circle. It doesn't however, affiliate me with a
group of people. I am sure there are other people who love games, but I am
not part of a group with that as their focus. I don't really care if anyone
else loves games or not. (except my family or I'd have no one to play
with.)
When someone asks how we homeschool I definitely say I'm an unschooler.
There are words that I identify with....unschooler, attachment parent, etc,
but I am not affiliated with any groups that have these things as their
focus.
============================================================================
====
Sandra wrote:
I think sometimes there's an infatuation period with new things, and that
can
be really good for the cause, or the group.
============================================================================
=====
Absolutely! I get the fever when I discover something wonderful and new. I
just want to share it with everyone!
============================================================================
=====
Sandra wrote:
But some people make a more long-term relationship with the thing they're
involved in (church, LLL, environmentalism, whatever) and that's fine.
============================================================================
======
That's true, but so not me. I tend to get into something and be really
enthusiastic for a while. Then I move on to something else. Although,
loving games has never changed and I can't begin to imagine that wanting to
unschool my kids would ever change. But my enthusiasm for sharing it has
definitely changed. I don't want to change the world so much as I want to
live happily in my own little world. Sounds selfish, doesn't it? Although
if someone were actually interested, I'd happily share what works for us.
People are definitely brought together by the things they share in common.
I'm glad we have ways to identify (label) ourselves so we can find like
minded people to hang out with. I can't even imagine not having unschooling
support via the net.
Angela ~ From Maine, unschooler extraordinaire, game enthusiast, book
enthusiast, unschooling list enthusiast, fitness enthusiast, happy go lucky,
who isn't a part of any real life groups. :0) (I just learned how to play
Texas Hold Em last weekend. What fun!)
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<< I've have no affiliations with any groups and I am perfectly fine with
that. >>
Sandra wrote:
But you're a game-enthusiast and chose to advertise that. <g>
Isn't that an affiliation?
================================================================
Is it? It says something about me, but it doesn't really affiliate me with
a particular group of people.
==================================================================
What about screennames? Lots of people on the unschooling lists have
screennames about parenting or their children or homeschooling.
=========================================================================
I guess I see screen names differently than identifying myself with a group.
(church, LLL, homeschool group, knitting group, book club, etc.) I think
screen names can identify something about you (that I love games) without
affiliating you with a group.
We recently got a new email server and I had to come up with a new email
name. It was such a hard decision. (life's hard when you hardest decision is
your email address. LOL!) Over the last 4 plus years my email has been
unschooling@------. And I kept the unschooling part even when we changed
providers. This last change I decided to step away from identifying myself
to the world as "unschooling". Sometimes there are times when I want to be
more discreet about who I am and what we do. (or don't do) Everyone I know,
it seems, comes up with such cute, creative email addresses. I drew a total
blank at first. We were on a roll of playing Who-ville Opoly at the time
and I almost picked Grinched or Whobilation. I ended up picking something
more broad but on the same topic. We just love games at our house and I did
want my email to say *something* about me while at the same time not causing
too much controversy in any circle. It doesn't however, affiliate me with a
group of people. I am sure there are other people who love games, but I am
not part of a group with that as their focus. I don't really care if anyone
else loves games or not. (except my family or I'd have no one to play
with.)
When someone asks how we homeschool I definitely say I'm an unschooler.
There are words that I identify with....unschooler, attachment parent, etc,
but I am not affiliated with any groups that have these things as their
focus.
============================================================================
====
Sandra wrote:
I think sometimes there's an infatuation period with new things, and that
can
be really good for the cause, or the group.
============================================================================
=====
Absolutely! I get the fever when I discover something wonderful and new. I
just want to share it with everyone!
============================================================================
=====
Sandra wrote:
But some people make a more long-term relationship with the thing they're
involved in (church, LLL, environmentalism, whatever) and that's fine.
============================================================================
======
That's true, but so not me. I tend to get into something and be really
enthusiastic for a while. Then I move on to something else. Although,
loving games has never changed and I can't begin to imagine that wanting to
unschool my kids would ever change. But my enthusiasm for sharing it has
definitely changed. I don't want to change the world so much as I want to
live happily in my own little world. Sounds selfish, doesn't it? Although
if someone were actually interested, I'd happily share what works for us.
People are definitely brought together by the things they share in common.
I'm glad we have ways to identify (label) ourselves so we can find like
minded people to hang out with. I can't even imagine not having unschooling
support via the net.
Angela ~ From Maine, unschooler extraordinaire, game enthusiast, book
enthusiast, unschooling list enthusiast, fitness enthusiast, happy go lucky,
who isn't a part of any real life groups. :0) (I just learned how to play
Texas Hold Em last weekend. What fun!)
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Angela
So long as you don't end up divorced on your birthday as well. Yikes, did I
say that? <grin>
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
<< (We got married on our birthday, and had our first
child on our birthday as well ;) >>
THAT IS COOL!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
say that? <grin>
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
<< (We got married on our birthday, and had our first
child on our birthday as well ;) >>
THAT IS COOL!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/25/2004 11:28:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
It happens with hair, and automobiles, favorite TV shows, "fandom" of
various
sorts (anime, science fiction, particular movies or characters like
Highlander, Beauty and the Beast TV series), and now lately with websites
and video
games.
<<<<
Right. I think my best virtual friend HAS to be Deb Lewis, hands down. Among
other things, we're both HUGE Sandra Dodd fans; we'll both stay up late to
watch marathon reruns of M*A*S*H; at least one of us loves Basenjis. <g> We
both love to laugh.
Unfortunately, I think we're both a little frightened of meeting each other
next month---what if we have nothing in common? <bwg>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
It happens with hair, and automobiles, favorite TV shows, "fandom" of
various
sorts (anime, science fiction, particular movies or characters like
Highlander, Beauty and the Beast TV series), and now lately with websites
and video
games.
<<<<
Right. I think my best virtual friend HAS to be Deb Lewis, hands down. Among
other things, we're both HUGE Sandra Dodd fans; we'll both stay up late to
watch marathon reruns of M*A*S*H; at least one of us loves Basenjis. <g> We
both love to laugh.
Unfortunately, I think we're both a little frightened of meeting each other
next month---what if we have nothing in common? <bwg>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/25/04 1:10:50 PM, game-enthusiast@... writes:
<< I don't want to change the world so much as I want to
live happily in my own little world. Sounds selfish, doesn't it? >>
It doesn't sound selfish to me.
Maybe Gardner needs to think about another intelligence, about wanting to
change the world or something. <g> Maybe it's not an intelligence. Maybe it's a
pathology. <g>
Sandra
<< I don't want to change the world so much as I want to
live happily in my own little world. Sounds selfish, doesn't it? >>
It doesn't sound selfish to me.
Maybe Gardner needs to think about another intelligence, about wanting to
change the world or something. <g> Maybe it's not an intelligence. Maybe it's a
pathology. <g>
Sandra
Deb Lewis
***Unfortunately, I think we're both a little frightened of meeting each
other
next month---what if we have nothing in common? <bwg>***
HA! I am SO going to plant one on you and then get lost in that sexy
southern voice of yours, it won't be "meeting" me that you'll be
frightened of, babe. <BEG>
Deb
other
next month---what if we have nothing in common? <bwg>***
HA! I am SO going to plant one on you and then get lost in that sexy
southern voice of yours, it won't be "meeting" me that you'll be
frightened of, babe. <BEG>
Deb
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/25/2004 10:43:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
ddzimlew@... writes:
HA! I am SO going to plant one on you and then get lost in that sexy
southern voice of yours, it won't be "meeting" me that you'll be
frightened of, babe. <BEG>
Deb <<<<
KAAAAATHRRRYYYYNNNNN!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ddzimlew@... writes:
HA! I am SO going to plant one on you and then get lost in that sexy
southern voice of yours, it won't be "meeting" me that you'll be
frightened of, babe. <BEG>
Deb <<<<
KAAAAATHRRRYYYYNNNNN!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
eriksmama2001
Kay said that she mostly has had friends who were not like-minded
about attachment parenting and unschooling. I have been fortunate to
have several women friends with both of these same common
preferences. We have been able to support each other on the phone,
mostly. However, as our children have grown, it has become increasing
more difficult to coordinate our families' schedules and play
preferences: some like physical outdoor play at parks more than
others, some don't like the heat, visiting with a third or fourth
child is more difficult due to the "luggage" just to go anywhere for
several hours, etc. So, we are able to see each of the families about
once a week or so.
My son is an only child, 3y/o. He loves to have children around. He
would like lots of children to play with every day for long periods.
So we go to the park and the pool. But here children are yelled at,
scolded, directed, restricted, given time-outs, grabbed, ignored,
etc. You know, conventional parenting. Nothing "abusive" just the
authoritarian attitude of "do it my way, or else". I have actually
heard a mother tell a child "stop right now, or else you won't get
dinner, I am that serious". Apparently, the child wanted to play with
something and wasn't even allowed to explore it, not breakable, just
noisy.
So we tried organized activities: Music Together, gym classes at the
YMCA. Same thing, parents not treating the children with respect. Not
listened to. Not given a chance to voice their point of view. Told to
just stop. Stop having an opinion. Do it my way, now.
So we tried the La Leche park date. Same thing. Attachment parented
babies, but as soon as they are toddling around a bit, the children
are discussed in front of them as: "misbehaving", "talking
back", "disobiedient", "belligerent", told "don't talk to me with
that tone", "won't clean up their room", "won't help with their
younger siblings", "immature, old enough to know better", "being
stubborn, I told you to do it", etc.
Then the children are "goin to be in trouble", "going to have to
leave, if they don't mind", told "listen, I told you, do xyz", "not
going to be able to play later", "won't get to watch videos", etc.
So, how do I meet my child's desire to have playmates and his need to
learn by watching others, when the environment and atmosphere with
some parents is domineering to the children? How do I create social
opportunites for him to learn about life when the environment is so
full of judgement, threats and intimidation? I know that these women
all mean well. They love their children dearly. They don't agree that
the pattern of coercion interferes with the child learning to love
life. And I really don't want my son to learn that the coercion that
is being modelled is a way to interact with people, especially
children.
How have you all handled similar situations over the years?
Pat
--- In [email protected], "Kay Alina" <angelsguard@s...>
wrote:
**
finished
with a mom and her kids at a local park. We had conversed through a
yahoo group and we had unschooling as a commonality. They stopped by
after the park because I wanted to share some of the fish we caught
in Alaska. While
it would be in my families best interest if I broaden our horizons
and try to make some connections within our local community with
others of "like mind." I have never really thought of myself as
a "group" person although I was involved in the 12 step community for
some time. We are not involved with a church and have very few
family members. I never clicked with the Mom's club in our area and
the friends we have now we met in Kindermusik a couple of years ago.
So, thanks to the internet and yahoo groups we have recently joined
both unschooling, homeschooling the gifted, and attachment parenting
groups to find local get togethers. I am really not a social
creature but I feel it is one of those consensual things I need to do
for Alex's needs as well as my own. It is quite humbling to my ego
to admit I want to "belong" somewhere. That's where I am at the
moment. Grateful that there is commonality in our large county and
grateful to connect.
about attachment parenting and unschooling. I have been fortunate to
have several women friends with both of these same common
preferences. We have been able to support each other on the phone,
mostly. However, as our children have grown, it has become increasing
more difficult to coordinate our families' schedules and play
preferences: some like physical outdoor play at parks more than
others, some don't like the heat, visiting with a third or fourth
child is more difficult due to the "luggage" just to go anywhere for
several hours, etc. So, we are able to see each of the families about
once a week or so.
My son is an only child, 3y/o. He loves to have children around. He
would like lots of children to play with every day for long periods.
So we go to the park and the pool. But here children are yelled at,
scolded, directed, restricted, given time-outs, grabbed, ignored,
etc. You know, conventional parenting. Nothing "abusive" just the
authoritarian attitude of "do it my way, or else". I have actually
heard a mother tell a child "stop right now, or else you won't get
dinner, I am that serious". Apparently, the child wanted to play with
something and wasn't even allowed to explore it, not breakable, just
noisy.
So we tried organized activities: Music Together, gym classes at the
YMCA. Same thing, parents not treating the children with respect. Not
listened to. Not given a chance to voice their point of view. Told to
just stop. Stop having an opinion. Do it my way, now.
So we tried the La Leche park date. Same thing. Attachment parented
babies, but as soon as they are toddling around a bit, the children
are discussed in front of them as: "misbehaving", "talking
back", "disobiedient", "belligerent", told "don't talk to me with
that tone", "won't clean up their room", "won't help with their
younger siblings", "immature, old enough to know better", "being
stubborn, I told you to do it", etc.
Then the children are "goin to be in trouble", "going to have to
leave, if they don't mind", told "listen, I told you, do xyz", "not
going to be able to play later", "won't get to watch videos", etc.
So, how do I meet my child's desire to have playmates and his need to
learn by watching others, when the environment and atmosphere with
some parents is domineering to the children? How do I create social
opportunites for him to learn about life when the environment is so
full of judgement, threats and intimidation? I know that these women
all mean well. They love their children dearly. They don't agree that
the pattern of coercion interferes with the child learning to love
life. And I really don't want my son to learn that the coercion that
is being modelled is a way to interact with people, especially
children.
How have you all handled similar situations over the years?
Pat
--- In [email protected], "Kay Alina" <angelsguard@s...>
wrote:
>discussed
> Some years back, early 80's I think, I read an article that
> identification and belonging in the changing world, and it saidthat people will
> identify with another person over common preference, like afavorite drink or
> candy bar.**********************************************************************
>
**
> I have been thinking about the "identity" question and enjoying theresponses. Maybe it's the theme of the week for me because I just
finished
> reading an anthropological study on marriage and communityyesterday too.
> I realized even three year olds bond over common preferences. Theywill do
> it over underwear. "Look I have Power Rangers too!" It opens up aconversation. I had an experience last week of having a blind date
with a mom and her kids at a local park. We had conversed through a
yahoo group and we had unschooling as a commonality. They stopped by
after the park because I wanted to share some of the fish we caught
in Alaska. While
> she was in the kitchen she saw a picture I had and asked a questionand we
> both realized we had something very personal in common. I feelvery linked
> to her because of the common preference. We also had a greatplaydate.
> I realized in the last month or so none of my friends were AP orunschooling. We get together for playdates regularly but I realized
it would be in my families best interest if I broaden our horizons
and try to make some connections within our local community with
others of "like mind." I have never really thought of myself as
a "group" person although I was involved in the 12 step community for
some time. We are not involved with a church and have very few
family members. I never clicked with the Mom's club in our area and
the friends we have now we met in Kindermusik a couple of years ago.
So, thanks to the internet and yahoo groups we have recently joined
both unschooling, homeschooling the gifted, and attachment parenting
groups to find local get togethers. I am really not a social
creature but I feel it is one of those consensual things I need to do
for Alex's needs as well as my own. It is quite humbling to my ego
to admit I want to "belong" somewhere. That's where I am at the
moment. Grateful that there is commonality in our large county and
grateful to connect.
> Kay
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/25/2004 10:44:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
***Unfortunately, I think we're both a little frightened of meeting each
other
next month---what if we have nothing in common? <bwg>***
HA! I am SO going to plant one on you and then get lost in that sexy
southern voice of yours, it won't be "meeting" me that you'll be
frightened of, babe. <BEG>
Deb
***************************
Ummm............
Can I watch?
Kathryn
Come to the Live and Learn Unschooling Conference August 27-29 in Peabody, MA!
For more information, go to www.LiveandLearnConference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
***Unfortunately, I think we're both a little frightened of meeting each
other
next month---what if we have nothing in common? <bwg>***
HA! I am SO going to plant one on you and then get lost in that sexy
southern voice of yours, it won't be "meeting" me that you'll be
frightened of, babe. <BEG>
Deb
***************************
Ummm............
Can I watch?
Kathryn
Come to the Live and Learn Unschooling Conference August 27-29 in Peabody, MA!
For more information, go to www.LiveandLearnConference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
denice
<<Then the children are "goin to be in trouble", "going to have to
leave, if they don't mind", told "listen, I told you, do xyz", "not
going to be able to play later", "won't get to watch videos", etc. >>
Sounds like some moms who are *desperately* trying to get some quality grown-up time. :-/
denice
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
leave, if they don't mind", told "listen, I told you, do xyz", "not
going to be able to play later", "won't get to watch videos", etc. >>
Sounds like some moms who are *desperately* trying to get some quality grown-up time. :-/
denice
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/26/04 8:50:06 AM, scubamama@... writes:
<< My son is an only child, 3y/o. He loves to have children around. He
would like lots of children to play with every day for long periods. >>
We were lucky when our kids were little to have several kids in the
neighborhood. When they were at our house they were being nicer than they were
sometimes at their own houses.
-=-Then the children are "goin to be in trouble", "going to have to
leave, if they don't mind", told "listen, I told you, do xyz", "not
going to be able to play later", "won't get to watch videos", etc.
-=-
That's so sad. It frustrates me too, and though it's way for my kids to
learn how not to be, it's also a big bring-down before long.
-=-So, how do I meet my child's desire to have playmates and his need to
learn by watching others, when the environment and atmosphere with
some parents is domineering to the children?-=-
Get the kids away from their parents. Find some who can come to play.
-=-And I really don't want my son to learn that the coercion that
is being modelled is a way to interact with people, especially
children.-=-
But it IS a way. And if you let him know you think there are better ways,
he'll have no problem understanding it.
Sandra
<< My son is an only child, 3y/o. He loves to have children around. He
would like lots of children to play with every day for long periods. >>
We were lucky when our kids were little to have several kids in the
neighborhood. When they were at our house they were being nicer than they were
sometimes at their own houses.
-=-Then the children are "goin to be in trouble", "going to have to
leave, if they don't mind", told "listen, I told you, do xyz", "not
going to be able to play later", "won't get to watch videos", etc.
-=-
That's so sad. It frustrates me too, and though it's way for my kids to
learn how not to be, it's also a big bring-down before long.
-=-So, how do I meet my child's desire to have playmates and his need to
learn by watching others, when the environment and atmosphere with
some parents is domineering to the children?-=-
Get the kids away from their parents. Find some who can come to play.
-=-And I really don't want my son to learn that the coercion that
is being modelled is a way to interact with people, especially
children.-=-
But it IS a way. And if you let him know you think there are better ways,
he'll have no problem understanding it.
Sandra
Elizabeth Hill
**
So we tried the La Leche park date. Same thing. Attachment parented
babies, but as soon as they are toddling around a bit, the children
are discussed in front of them as: "misbehaving", "talking
back", "disobiedient", "belligerent", told "don't talk to me with
that tone", "won't clean up their room", "won't help with their
younger siblings", "immature, old enough to know better", "being
stubborn, I told you to do it", etc. **
Wow, I didn't have this experience with the LLL park days that I attended. In fact I still have two great friends who are wonderful examples for me of how to parent sweetly and calmly. (I don't think they were *always* calm; they are human! But sometimes having a witness can help you stay teetering on the brink of reasonableness and not totally lose it. So it was mutually beneficial for us to hang out and "parent" together.) I still see these friends for playdates, and our kids are now 10. (Sadly, we don't live in the same cities any more, but we do live in the same region.)
I was not particularly good as a parent in the 1-3 year age range. I think it was a help for me to have attachment parenting friends to set an example for me. Maybe in this group, you will have to BE the example, the "exemplary" parent?
Nursing my kid was my best tool for calming upsetting situations at that age. Maybe if people in some areas feel more pressure to wean early they are going to fall back more on "traditional" parenting techniques?
Can you hang in a little longer and see if you can spot the most patient moms in the bunch. Then maybe cut them out of the herd and have one on one playdates with them? Your parenting style can influence their's and maybe it will spread to the wider group.
It also occurs to me that (overall) parents who are on their second or third kid have more sense about what behavior to expect at what ages. You *might* find some older and wiser mamas with trailing 3 year olds that would be pleasanter to be around. (Sorry for the "ageism" but the parenting approached quoted above sound kind of ignorant to me.) (Oh, if you are looking for more "literate" parents who are parenting "by the book" but using the newer books <g>, you might try story time at a bookstore or library, or hang out at parks in yuppie neighborhoods.)
I personally hate the word "disobedient". I like "cooperation", but my goal is never to extract "obedience" from the people around me. You have my sympathy for having to be around people who are "obedience training" their kids.
Betsy
PS I live in the leftist CA Bay Area. Mostly we hate authoritarianism, so authoritarian parenting isn't widespread here.
**
They don't agree that
the pattern of coercion interferes with the child learning to love **
PPS I am the least coercive parent of everyone that I know well. And I don't agree that a tiny bit of coercion, like "c'mon get your shoes on" or "please come with me to the store I want an orange now" are going to interfere with a child's love of learning or even his love of me. So maybe I don't fit with the philosophy you are looking for. BUT, I don't use any of the icky parenting techniques that you quoted above as negative examples.
So we tried the La Leche park date. Same thing. Attachment parented
babies, but as soon as they are toddling around a bit, the children
are discussed in front of them as: "misbehaving", "talking
back", "disobiedient", "belligerent", told "don't talk to me with
that tone", "won't clean up their room", "won't help with their
younger siblings", "immature, old enough to know better", "being
stubborn, I told you to do it", etc. **
Wow, I didn't have this experience with the LLL park days that I attended. In fact I still have two great friends who are wonderful examples for me of how to parent sweetly and calmly. (I don't think they were *always* calm; they are human! But sometimes having a witness can help you stay teetering on the brink of reasonableness and not totally lose it. So it was mutually beneficial for us to hang out and "parent" together.) I still see these friends for playdates, and our kids are now 10. (Sadly, we don't live in the same cities any more, but we do live in the same region.)
I was not particularly good as a parent in the 1-3 year age range. I think it was a help for me to have attachment parenting friends to set an example for me. Maybe in this group, you will have to BE the example, the "exemplary" parent?
Nursing my kid was my best tool for calming upsetting situations at that age. Maybe if people in some areas feel more pressure to wean early they are going to fall back more on "traditional" parenting techniques?
Can you hang in a little longer and see if you can spot the most patient moms in the bunch. Then maybe cut them out of the herd and have one on one playdates with them? Your parenting style can influence their's and maybe it will spread to the wider group.
It also occurs to me that (overall) parents who are on their second or third kid have more sense about what behavior to expect at what ages. You *might* find some older and wiser mamas with trailing 3 year olds that would be pleasanter to be around. (Sorry for the "ageism" but the parenting approached quoted above sound kind of ignorant to me.) (Oh, if you are looking for more "literate" parents who are parenting "by the book" but using the newer books <g>, you might try story time at a bookstore or library, or hang out at parks in yuppie neighborhoods.)
I personally hate the word "disobedient". I like "cooperation", but my goal is never to extract "obedience" from the people around me. You have my sympathy for having to be around people who are "obedience training" their kids.
Betsy
PS I live in the leftist CA Bay Area. Mostly we hate authoritarianism, so authoritarian parenting isn't widespread here.
**
They don't agree that
the pattern of coercion interferes with the child learning to love **
PPS I am the least coercive parent of everyone that I know well. And I don't agree that a tiny bit of coercion, like "c'mon get your shoes on" or "please come with me to the store I want an orange now" are going to interfere with a child's love of learning or even his love of me. So maybe I don't fit with the philosophy you are looking for. BUT, I don't use any of the icky parenting techniques that you quoted above as negative examples.
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/26/04 2:05:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
ecsamhill@... writes:
voice as well. I know sometimes we are on our way to park day or whatever and on
the way to their shoes my boys may get distracted by something fascinating
and forget what they were doing. Distraction over..."c'mon get your shoes on"
or "Grab your shoes on the way out the door" or "Ok lets all take a room and
find the shoes", or something like that. A reminder isn't necessarily coercion.
Just my thoughts,
Pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ecsamhill@... writes:
> tiny bit of coercion, like "c'mon get your shoes on"I think that could just be a reminder. I guess it depends on the tone of
voice as well. I know sometimes we are on our way to park day or whatever and on
the way to their shoes my boys may get distracted by something fascinating
and forget what they were doing. Distraction over..."c'mon get your shoes on"
or "Grab your shoes on the way out the door" or "Ok lets all take a room and
find the shoes", or something like that. A reminder isn't necessarily coercion.
Just my thoughts,
Pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
denice
<<Distraction over..."c'mon get your shoes on"
or "Grab your shoes on the way out the door" or "Ok lets all take a room and
find the shoes", or something like that. A reminder isn't necessarily coercion.>>
In our home lives a very distracted person, so saying to him, "Put your shoes on before you get in the car" is necessary. We've been halfway to our destination to find that he has no shoes on, no coat on in the middle of our midwestern winter, is still in his pajamas, forgets his choir music, whatever. One time, when we were halfway to Chicago for a week's visit, I turned back to see that he was wearing...garden clogs! This was his only pair of shoes for the week.
I think that what some families would consider coercion is simply necessary for other families. Every child and every family is different. For me, helping my memory-challenged son to remember his shoes is a help that he needs and appreciates, if I do it with the right heart. This same reminder is not necessary for my other children.
denice
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
or "Grab your shoes on the way out the door" or "Ok lets all take a room and
find the shoes", or something like that. A reminder isn't necessarily coercion.>>
In our home lives a very distracted person, so saying to him, "Put your shoes on before you get in the car" is necessary. We've been halfway to our destination to find that he has no shoes on, no coat on in the middle of our midwestern winter, is still in his pajamas, forgets his choir music, whatever. One time, when we were halfway to Chicago for a week's visit, I turned back to see that he was wearing...garden clogs! This was his only pair of shoes for the week.
I think that what some families would consider coercion is simply necessary for other families. Every child and every family is different. For me, helping my memory-challenged son to remember his shoes is a help that he needs and appreciates, if I do it with the right heart. This same reminder is not necessary for my other children.
denice
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nanci Kuykendall
<...I find it absolutely fascinating to learn about
how others create identities for themselves and their
families and find ways to "belong" while living this
"outside the box" life.
I guess the point of my email is to ask people to
think about, or write to the list about what kind of
affiliations they find helpful in their lives....>
We are involved in the intentional communities
movement and find a great deal of satisfaction and
belonging among many folks also involved in that.
Intentional communities folks are usually looked at
askance and treated as weird and are very outside the
box, so it makes us feel right at home.
Nanci K.
how others create identities for themselves and their
families and find ways to "belong" while living this
"outside the box" life.
I guess the point of my email is to ask people to
think about, or write to the list about what kind of
affiliations they find helpful in their lives....>
We are involved in the intentional communities
movement and find a great deal of satisfaction and
belonging among many folks also involved in that.
Intentional communities folks are usually looked at
askance and treated as weird and are very outside the
box, so it makes us feel right at home.
Nanci K.
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/26/04 2:53:31 PM, denice@... writes:
<< I think that what some families would consider coercion is simply
necessary for other families. Every child and every family is different. >>
But coercion stays the same.
If a child wants a reminder, then it's a reminder. If he is forced to wear
shoes he didn't want to wear, that's coercion.
Sandra
<< I think that what some families would consider coercion is simply
necessary for other families. Every child and every family is different. >>
But coercion stays the same.
If a child wants a reminder, then it's a reminder. If he is forced to wear
shoes he didn't want to wear, that's coercion.
Sandra
Elizabeth Hill
**
If a child wants a reminder, then it's a reminder. If he is forced to wear
shoes he didn't want to wear, that's coercion.**
Yeah. This came from an example in my post where I said that I'm less coercive than nearly everybody, but sometimes I still say "put on your shoes and come with me." (That's not necessarily how I start the conversation, but I have ended it that way. My son is 10 and in my opinion not ready to be left at home alone, even for 20 minutes.)
I don't personally believe that this is harmful. We do lots to make our son's life sweet and rewarding and interesting. But I don't believe I can find common preferences 100% of the time and I'm not shooting for that as my goal.
Enough people think I'm insanely permissive, so if anyone thinks I'm a coercive meanie, I'm just gonna shake my head and smile in disbelief.
YMMV,
Betsy
If a child wants a reminder, then it's a reminder. If he is forced to wear
shoes he didn't want to wear, that's coercion.**
Yeah. This came from an example in my post where I said that I'm less coercive than nearly everybody, but sometimes I still say "put on your shoes and come with me." (That's not necessarily how I start the conversation, but I have ended it that way. My son is 10 and in my opinion not ready to be left at home alone, even for 20 minutes.)
I don't personally believe that this is harmful. We do lots to make our son's life sweet and rewarding and interesting. But I don't believe I can find common preferences 100% of the time and I'm not shooting for that as my goal.
Enough people think I'm insanely permissive, so if anyone thinks I'm a coercive meanie, I'm just gonna shake my head and smile in disbelief.
YMMV,
Betsy
denice
Elizabeth Hill wrote:
<<Enough people think I'm insanely permissive, so if anyone thinks I'm a
coercive meanie, I'm just gonna shake my head and smile in disbelief.>>
I never thought it could happen, but it does. :-) I'm both too conservative,
too liberal, too strict, too permissive, too mean, too kind, too outgoing,
too unsocial...
Wow. I must have multiple personalities, huh? ;-)
denice
<<Enough people think I'm insanely permissive, so if anyone thinks I'm a
coercive meanie, I'm just gonna shake my head and smile in disbelief.>>
I never thought it could happen, but it does. :-) I'm both too conservative,
too liberal, too strict, too permissive, too mean, too kind, too outgoing,
too unsocial...
Wow. I must have multiple personalities, huh? ;-)
denice
C Johnson
I have been told by a well meaning friend that I am not strict enough on my children and I unschool wrong, lol
Chrissie
denice <denice@...> wrote:
Elizabeth Hill wrote:
<<Enough people think I'm insanely permissive, so if anyone thinks I'm a
coercive meanie, I'm just gonna shake my head and smile in disbelief.>>
I never thought it could happen, but it does. :-) I'm both too conservative,
too liberal, too strict, too permissive, too mean, too kind, too outgoing,
too unsocial...
Wow. I must have multiple personalities, huh? ;-)
denice
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Chrissie
denice <denice@...> wrote:
Elizabeth Hill wrote:
<<Enough people think I'm insanely permissive, so if anyone thinks I'm a
coercive meanie, I'm just gonna shake my head and smile in disbelief.>>
I never thought it could happen, but it does. :-) I'm both too conservative,
too liberal, too strict, too permissive, too mean, too kind, too outgoing,
too unsocial...
Wow. I must have multiple personalities, huh? ;-)
denice
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/
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[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Hill
**
I never thought it could happen, but it does. I'm both too conservative,
too liberal, too strict, too permissive, too mean, too kind, too outgoing,
too unsocial...**
<g>
It gets pretty confusing, but pretty much no one thinks I'm too thin or too conservative.
Anyone watching the convention?
Anyone have a kid watching, without coercing them to do so?
I can remember watching the '72 convention at a friend's house when I was only 13. I thought McGovern gave a great speech, so I'm a terrible barometer of American public sentiment.
Betsy
I never thought it could happen, but it does. I'm both too conservative,
too liberal, too strict, too permissive, too mean, too kind, too outgoing,
too unsocial...**
<g>
It gets pretty confusing, but pretty much no one thinks I'm too thin or too conservative.
Anyone watching the convention?
Anyone have a kid watching, without coercing them to do so?
I can remember watching the '72 convention at a friend's house when I was only 13. I thought McGovern gave a great speech, so I'm a terrible barometer of American public sentiment.
Betsy
denice
Elizabeth Hill wrote:
<<It gets pretty confusing, but pretty much no one thinks I'm too thin or
too conservative. >>
Ah, yes! I don't think I could be considered "too thin" either! Ha!
denice
<<It gets pretty confusing, but pretty much no one thinks I'm too thin or
too conservative. >>
Ah, yes! I don't think I could be considered "too thin" either! Ha!
denice
Kay Alina
So, how do I meet my child's desire to have playmates and his need to
learn by watching others, when the environment and atmosphere with
some parents is domineering to the children? How do I create social
opportunites for him to learn about life when the environment is so
full of judgement, threats and intimidation? I know that these women
all mean well. They love their children dearly. They don't agree that
the pattern of coercion interferes with the child learning to love
life. And I really don't want my son to learn that the coercion that
is being modelled is a way to interact with people, especially
children.
*******************************************************************************************************************************
Thanks for sharing Pat. You reminded me of why I have had so much difficulty going to the park. I have been fortunate in
regard to the enrichment activities over all though. Although, as my previous share mentioned the kids are getting to an age
in which they are going to be in school full time and I suspect changes as well as time restrictions will develop. I did choose
quite consciously who I wanted to pursue friendships with and playdates with by the behavior of the children and the parents behavior. I am fortunate the La Leche in my area was full of AP mom's. I went to my first Attachment Parenting get together
tonight. Mark came with too. I had such a wonderful time. Much better time than I have had at any of the past three homeschooling park play dates. The get together was a potluck too. It just seemed to me that the parents were conscious, gentle involved, and intelligent and the children all got along together. Probably because they were modeled a lifetime of respect and had
no need to fight because they are coming from a place of security. I found this group through yahoo groups and it was recommended to me from someone I met online through unschooling basics. Anyway, I look forward to another park date and the group itself online seems to be very active. Maybe there is an AP group in your nearby area. Alex is at an age now where the enrichment classes usually do not involved parents within the enviroment so the choice of teacher for me is very important. I becoe very stressed when I am near anyone who is threatening or screaming at a child. Another thing I am very grateful for
is Alex's sensei. She is a wonderful person and he spends two 45 min. private sessions a week with her. I think for me the priority
is to have connections. It's wonderful if they are peer group but if I can not find that I will find someone he can interact with through mentoring. He chooses what he is interested in learning though. Another idea is maybe setting up a playdate in an environment where a vocal/controlling parent may be less likely to act out. Example being someplace like a science museum. I think some people are at there absolute worse at the park and beach. Sometimes there are once a month classes for the young at place like the Aquarium of the Paciific and the children can learn and interact and even if a lifetime bond is not made they still have some moments with peers. Anyway, didn't mean to write a novel. Sorry, for the length.
Kay
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
learn by watching others, when the environment and atmosphere with
some parents is domineering to the children? How do I create social
opportunites for him to learn about life when the environment is so
full of judgement, threats and intimidation? I know that these women
all mean well. They love their children dearly. They don't agree that
the pattern of coercion interferes with the child learning to love
life. And I really don't want my son to learn that the coercion that
is being modelled is a way to interact with people, especially
children.
*******************************************************************************************************************************
Thanks for sharing Pat. You reminded me of why I have had so much difficulty going to the park. I have been fortunate in
regard to the enrichment activities over all though. Although, as my previous share mentioned the kids are getting to an age
in which they are going to be in school full time and I suspect changes as well as time restrictions will develop. I did choose
quite consciously who I wanted to pursue friendships with and playdates with by the behavior of the children and the parents behavior. I am fortunate the La Leche in my area was full of AP mom's. I went to my first Attachment Parenting get together
tonight. Mark came with too. I had such a wonderful time. Much better time than I have had at any of the past three homeschooling park play dates. The get together was a potluck too. It just seemed to me that the parents were conscious, gentle involved, and intelligent and the children all got along together. Probably because they were modeled a lifetime of respect and had
no need to fight because they are coming from a place of security. I found this group through yahoo groups and it was recommended to me from someone I met online through unschooling basics. Anyway, I look forward to another park date and the group itself online seems to be very active. Maybe there is an AP group in your nearby area. Alex is at an age now where the enrichment classes usually do not involved parents within the enviroment so the choice of teacher for me is very important. I becoe very stressed when I am near anyone who is threatening or screaming at a child. Another thing I am very grateful for
is Alex's sensei. She is a wonderful person and he spends two 45 min. private sessions a week with her. I think for me the priority
is to have connections. It's wonderful if they are peer group but if I can not find that I will find someone he can interact with through mentoring. He chooses what he is interested in learning though. Another idea is maybe setting up a playdate in an environment where a vocal/controlling parent may be less likely to act out. Example being someplace like a science museum. I think some people are at there absolute worse at the park and beach. Sometimes there are once a month classes for the young at place like the Aquarium of the Paciific and the children can learn and interact and even if a lifetime bond is not made they still have some moments with peers. Anyway, didn't mean to write a novel. Sorry, for the length.
Kay
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sylvia Toyama
Anyone watching the convention?
****
I watched a bit of it -- some of Hillary's intro and Bill Clinton's speech. What I can't get over in all the recent coverage is the Republicans saying that this is the most liberal ticket in Democrat history. Okay, and is that supposed to be a bad thing?
Syl
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****
I watched a bit of it -- some of Hillary's intro and Bill Clinton's speech. What I can't get over in all the recent coverage is the Republicans saying that this is the most liberal ticket in Democrat history. Okay, and is that supposed to be a bad thing?
Syl
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