joylyn

Lexie says that she has three questions she hates people asking her....

"Is that your mother?" (or some variation of how can you have a white
mother.)

"What grade are you in?"

"What school do you go to?" (Lexie said, not only are these last two
gramatically incorrect, but they are just plain annoying!)

So any ideas what she could say to these questions? She wants quick,
pat answers that will shut people up. Or should I say, shut up
people...although in that case up is not a preposition.... oh man, now I
know where lexie gets it.

Joylyn

nellebelle

She could use Dear Abbie's line. "Why do you need to know?"

Mary Ellen

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

<<So any ideas what she could say to these questions? >>

I think simple explanations are best.
"Is that your mother?"

-------------------

Yes.
-----------------


"What grade are you in?"

"What school do you go to?"

-------------------

I don't go to school.
====================


Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 22:51:24 -0700 joylyn <joylyn@...> writes:
> "What grade are you in?"

Rain used to use meat grades - prime, choice, stuff like that. I thought
it was funny. Now she's taken to looking overly clueless - "Grade? Oh,
grade... hmmmm.... I think 6th, or maybe 5th...?" But then, Rain enjoys
the whole thing, so that's different. It doesn't seem to come up much
anymore, somehow. Mostly it's other moms who bring it up.

I think it was probably harder a couple years ago, when she was Lexie's
age. Then she was more factual, like, "If I went to school I'd probably
be in 5th."

She used to have real trouble remembering that grades changed in the
fall... she kept assuming that they changed whenever you had a birthday.

Daron

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/5/2004 2:27:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
joylyn@... writes:

"Is that your mother?" (or some variation of how can you have a white
mother.)<<<<

Yes. You see, when a mommy and daddy love each other very much.....the sperm
and the egg......and then I was born! <g>



>>>>>"What grade are you in?"<<<<<

Grades are for meat and eggs, not children.



>>>>"What school do you go to?" <<<<<

School? Schools are for fish.

~Kelly, smart ass.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/5/2004 1:27:10 AM Central Standard Time,
joylyn@... writes:

"What grade are you in?"

"What school do you go to?"


~~~

Since we just moved to a new town, we get these questions all the time.
Will usually hands them off to me, but I don't know why because he's heard me
answer them a hundred times. It's especially hard on him when a kid is asking
while I'm not nearby. He usually comes and gets me.

I usually say he's homeschooled, and the kids here "get" that without having
to ask more. But they do want to know what grade he's in a lot. So I will
say, teasingly, "there's only one kid in his school; what do we need grades
for? He's 10!" I don't particularly like referring to him having a "school",
but the point now, here, with new people, is to help him avoid embarrassment
or feeling "different" or "odd", which seems to be an issue with him lately.


He really wants me to step in with adults, because their questions can be
more pointed. He hesitates to use the word "homeschooled" for some reason. I
have heard him say he was "unschooled" to one kid, though, but then he
couldn't explain it to the kid's satisfaction and asked me to explain it. The kid
lost interest, but I doubt he'll be willing to use the word again except in
the right circumstances and/or when he gets more confidence in handling people.

Karen


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/5/2004 2:44:19 AM Central Standard Time,
freeform@... writes:

I think it was probably harder a couple years ago, when she was Lexie's
age. Then she was more factual, like, "If I went to school I'd probably
be in 5th."





~~~

Oh yeah, I try to remember what grade Will would be in had he been in school
(easy for me since his brother was born at the same time of year and went to
school). I pass it on to him but he chooses not to remember or somethng.
Sixth grade this year. The same grade Jon was in when we started
homeschooling!

Time flies.

Karen


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/5/2004 10:00:52 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
In a message dated 7/5/2004 2:27:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
joylyn@... writes:

"Is that your mother?" (or some variation of how can you have a white
mother.)<<<<

Yes. You see, when a mommy and daddy love each other very much.....the sperm
and the egg......and then I was born! <g>



>>>>>"What grade are you in?"<<<<<

Grades are for meat and eggs, not children.



>>>>"What school do you go to?" <<<<<

School? Schools are for fish.

~Kelly, smart ass.
**************************
Kelly, dear, she did NOT ask how her daughter could respond that would most
ensure her being ostracized or beat up.

Kathryn


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/5/2004 11:08:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
KathrynJB@... writes:

Kelly, dear, she did NOT ask how her daughter could respond that would most
ensure her being ostracized or beat up.



<<<<

Oh. Oops! <g>

~Kelly, whose children regularly use all those answers. And they have also
been asked, "Is that your mother?"----but not for the same reason. Maybe the
strangers just feel sorry for my boys---the ones with the crazy mother! <BWG>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

joylyn

kbcdlovejo@... wrote:

> In a message dated 7/5/2004 2:27:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> joylyn@... writes:
>
> "Is that your mother?" (or some variation of how can you have a white
> mother.)<<<<
>
> Yes. You see, when a mommy and daddy love each other very
> much.....the sperm
> and the egg......and then I was born! <g>
>
>
>
> >>>>>"What grade are you in?"<<<<<
>
> Grades are for meat and eggs, not children.
>
>
>
> >>>>"What school do you go to?" <<<<<
>
> School? Schools are for fish.
>
> ~Kelly, smart ass.

Yes but so is Lexie, and I think these were kinda that answers she was
wanting. She wants them to think twice before asking these standard
questions... I always ask kids "do you go to school or do you
homeschool?" first...

Of course, we get really funny looks when we ask these kids older than
about 7 if they go to school, well, unless they are homeschoolers.

Joylyn

>
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tia Leschke

>
>
> >>>>"What school do you go to?" <<<<<
>
>School? Schools are for fish.

A friend of mine used to have a sig that read: "school n. a group of fish
all moving in the same direction."
Tia

Tia Leschke

>
>"Is that your mother?" (or some variation of how can you have a white
>mother.)

Thinking of kids I know with one black parent, there are always some
features that clearly take after the white parent. So she could say
something like, "Sure she's my mom. Take a good look at our eyes," or
something like that.
Tia

Alyce

--- In [email protected], joylyn <joylyn@e...> wrote:
> Lexie says that she has three questions she hates people asking
her....
>
> "Is that your mother?" (or some variation of how can you have a
white
> mother.)
>
> "What grade are you in?"
>
> "What school do you go to?" (Lexie said, not only are these last
two
> gramatically incorrect, but they are just plain annoying!)
>
> So any ideas what she could say to these questions? She wants
quick,

I may not be able to contribute good answers. But I know these
questions. I used to get similar questions when I was young. My
stepdad is black. And my youngest sister looks much like him!
Before she was born, though, people would ask me... is that your
dad???? I'd just say, "yeah." lol. And they'd just look puzzled.
Later my sister (2 years younger than I, and about 16 at the time)
was out with my youngest sis (about 1 at the time) someone asked
her, "Where'd you get that baby!!!???" uh... like she had stolen
her or something. That was messed up.

As for the schooling questions. Jay gets this a lot at the
playgrounds, etc. He says, "I don't go to school. I'm
homeschooled." And, "I'm not in a grade." sometimes he'll
elaborate and say what grade he *would* be in were he in school.
The most annoying question we get is in response to "I'm
homeschooled." They invariably ask, "WHY??" um...

~Alyce

Elizabeth Hill

**

Yes but so is Lexie, and I think these were kinda that answers she was
wanting. She wants them to think twice before asking these standard
questions... I always ask kids "do you go to school or do you
homeschool?" first...**

OK. Some of my first ideas were rude, and I squelched them. But... I kind of figure you are giving me permission.

I guess that sometimes when she identifies you as her mom she gets impolite responses from the inquirer, and she is trying to suppress that if she can?

To the question "Is that your mom?" I'm almost tempted to reply "What do you think?" (I'm not suggesting this be said with a snippy attitude.)

Betsy

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/5/04 1:44:19 AM, freeform@... writes:

<< she was more factual, like, "If I went to school I'd probably
be in 5th."

She used to have real trouble remembering that grades changed in the
fall... she kept assuming that they changed whenever you had a birthday. >>

That's exactly what we did with my kids. They still have to think when
someone asks, if "We don't do grades" doesn't suffice.

When they were little and asked "What grade would I be in?" I would go by
birthdays. Kirby has a summer birthday so his age is "right"/ideal. Mine was
too when I was a kid, so I know fifth graders are 11, because I was 11. By the
end of the year most of them were 12 <g>.

It wasn't long before none of us cared what grade someone would've been in.

Kirby would have graduated from high school last month, if he had gone.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/5/04 10:43:01 AM, joylyn@... writes:

<< I always ask kids "do you go to school or do you
homeschool?" first...

<<Of course, we get really funny looks when we ask these kids older than
about 7 if they go to school, well, unless they are homeschoolers. >>

Ooooh...

I really like that idea. I think I will start an all new dialog with kids I
meet in the future. I'll say "Do you got to school?" even if they're 14 years
old. It's simple turnabout for the hundreds of times my kids have been asked
"Where do you go to school?" and "What grade are you in?"

Fantasy moment:


Me: "Hi. Do you go to school?"

Stranger: [puzzled look, looking at me like I'm crazy after that] "Yeah."

Me: "Really? How come?"
(questions that often come after "we don't go to school," for my kids)


Nah, but that might serve to make more people unhappy in the world. And the
answer to "how come" about school is that their parents make them, or their
parents had no idea about homeschooling, or they and their parents no longer
like each other well enough to consider homeschooling.

Some things are better left undisturbed, I think.

Sandra

Tia Leschke

>
>Kirby would have graduated from high school last month, if he had gone.

This is something I'd like to talk about. I know you don't expect Kirby to
be doing certain things by certain ages, like leaving home or going to
university next year, for instance. I'm curious how you (and others) think
about kids being ready to move on from home. Lars would graduate next
spring if he'd been in school. All his friends go to school, and some
graduated this year. From their parents I hear a constant pushing. "Get a
job, etc." It feels like they're in such a hurry to push their kids out
into the world. Even dh has talked about how Lars might want to be on his
own soon.

I don't have a problem with him wanting to get out on his own, whenever
that happens. But I also don't want him to feel pushed. He still hasn't
figured out what he wants to do with his life. His major interests
(softball, soccer, mountain biking, and film editing) don't look like they
lead into careers, except the film editing, but his interest there is quite
narrow (mountain biking videos).

I've encouraged his involvement with all of those. We've also talked about
blue collar trades, since he's such a hands-on guy. He doesn't like book
learning and really dislikes writing. I know for the trades he's going to
need a certain level of math and language arts, depending on the trade.
I've told him we're glad to help when he wants to work on those things. He
says he does but doesn't do much about it. No problem. I'm not in a hurry.
Any thoughts on this?
Tia
ps Even though he still isn't playing because of his broken arm, his team
won the right yesterday to represent Western Canada in the International
Softball Congress in Fargo, ND next month. It's fairly certain he'll be
playing again by then. Yippee!

AlysonRR

My mountain-biking, film-editing, free-spirited brother went to
Evergreen State College (a WA state college where students design their
own major and do tons of independent study - very unschooling-friendly).
He created films about workers during the Depression and about his
friends, mountain bikers and on-the-cusp musicians. After he finished,
and after a several year hiatus when it seemed he was just hanging out
with friends, camping on various and sundry couches in the Pacific
Northwest, playing guitar and riding bikes with his dog, he found
construction. As a hands on, free spirited guy, he loves it. He gets
to work with his hands, he can take a break if he wants to - just stop
taking jobs, he works a regular day and has the evenings free to do what
he wants (reading history, riding mountain bikes, playing guitar,
whatever) while my PhD husband has to work long hours and spend time at
home doing work, too. He and his wife and daughter are happily buying
fixer-uppers, fixing them up, and renting and/or selling them.
Construction has been a good fit for him, even though it started out as
a way to earn enough cash to take his girlfriend out to dinner
occasionally :-)

Not to say it will be a fit for Lars - who knows? But your description
of him reminded me of my brother so I thought I'd share his story.

Also, there are a couple sports-oriented guys who work at a local
sportsplex as coaches to young kids. The coach at the homeschool class
we go to teaches kickball, soccer, volleyball, whiffleball, etc. I
don't know if it's a full-time career job for any of them, but they
certainly seem to enjoy working there sharing the sports they love with
kids.

And finally, any language and math skills he would need will probably be
acquired on the job just as easily. When I got my first position after
college I was amazed at how much more I had to learn on the job. It was
much easier to learn how to prepare molar solutions because I had to for
my job than it was in the abstract in college. I'm sure the same is
true for journeyman carpenters/electricians/plumbers/etc. If he has any
interest in learning any job, see if you can find someone willing to let
him shadow them for a day (or a week, or whatever).

I'm sure he'll find something he loves to do (or something he can do to
pay bills so he can do the thing he loves) - it sounds like he's good at
following his interests :-)

Alyson



Tia wrote, in part.

I don't have a problem with him wanting to get out on his own, whenever
that happens. But I also don't want him to feel pushed. He still hasn't
figured out what he wants to do with his life. His major interests
(softball, soccer, mountain biking, and film editing) don't look like
they
lead into careers, except the film editing, but his interest there is
quite
narrow (mountain biking videos).

I've encouraged his involvement with all of those. We've also talked
about
blue collar trades, since he's such a hands-on guy. He doesn't like book

learning and really dislikes writing. I know for the trades he's going
to
need a certain level of math and language arts, depending on the trade.
I've told him we're glad to help when he wants to work on those things.
He
says he does but doesn't do much about it. No problem. I'm not in a
hurry.
Any thoughts on this?
Tia
ps Even though he still isn't playing because of his broken arm, his
team
won the right yesterday to represent Western Canada in the International

Softball Congress in Fargo, ND next month. It's fairly certain he'll be
playing again by then. Yippee!





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

nellebelle

ps Even though he still isn't playing because of his broken arm,>>>>

Did he break his arm playing ball?

Mary Ellen

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tia Leschke

>ps Even though he still isn't playing because of his broken arm,>>>>
>
>Did he break his arm playing ball?

Nope, doing stunts on his bike. I believe he was hopping around on the
front wheel, hopped up onto something, and landed wrong. He went over and
landed on his hands with arms outstretched.
Tia

Tia Leschke

>My mountain-biking, film-editing, free-spirited brother went to
>Evergreen State College (a WA state college where students design their
>own major and do tons of independent study - very unschooling-friendly).
>He created films about workers during the Depression and about his
>friends, mountain bikers and on-the-cusp musicians. After he finished,
>and after a several year hiatus when it seemed he was just hanging out
>with friends, camping on various and sundry couches in the Pacific
>Northwest, playing guitar and riding bikes with his dog, he found
>construction. As a hands on, free spirited guy, he loves it. He gets
>to work with his hands, he can take a break if he wants to - just stop
>taking jobs, he works a regular day and has the evenings free to do what
>he wants (reading history, riding mountain bikes, playing guitar,
>whatever) while my PhD husband has to work long hours and spend time at
>home doing work, too. He and his wife and daughter are happily buying
>fixer-uppers, fixing them up, and renting and/or selling them.
>Construction has been a good fit for him, even though it started out as
>a way to earn enough cash to take his girlfriend out to dinner
>occasionally :-)

Sounds a lot like Lars. %^ )


>Also, there are a couple sports-oriented guys who work at a local
>sportsplex as coaches to young kids. The coach at the homeschool class
>we go to teaches kickball, soccer, volleyball, whiffleball, etc. I
>don't know if it's a full-time career job for any of them, but they
>certainly seem to enjoy working there sharing the sports they love with
>kids.

I think he'd love doing something like that. The sports around here are all
coached by volunteers. (don't I know it - dh has put in thousands of hours
coaching Lars' teams) I don't know what the possibilities might be for
getting paid coaching work somewhere.

>
>And finally, any language and math skills he would need will probably be
>acquired on the job just as easily. When I got my first position after
>college I was amazed at how much more I had to learn on the job. It was
>much easier to learn how to prepare molar solutions because I had to for
>my job than it was in the abstract in college. I'm sure the same is
>true for journeyman carpenters/electricians/plumbers/etc. If he has any
>interest in learning any job, see if you can find someone willing to let
>him shadow them for a day (or a week, or whatever).

I'm sure he could do some trades that way, but for most they want an
apprenticeship, and that requires some pre-apprenticeship training at the
local community college. They all have set requirements. You can test out
of them, but you have to know the math or be able to read and write
reasonably. It's coming, just not there yet.

>
>I'm sure he'll find something he loves to do (or something he can do to
>pay bills so he can do the thing he loves) - it sounds like he's good at
>following his interests :-)

Yeah. I'm sure he'll figure something out. I know he could get a job at the
bike store if they had enough business. I can even see him owning his own
some day. I guess what I'm really looking for is validation for letting him
"grow up" at his own speed. I don't get that locally. <g>
Tia

nellebelle

>>>>>doing stunts on his bike. I believe he was hopping around on the front wheel, hopped up onto something, and landed wrong. He went over and landed on his hands with arms outstretched.>>>

Ouch! Lisa (11) broke her arm on a trampoline a couple of months ago, in a similar way. She went on to her arms on the tramp and must have twisted the wrong way. This website gives a good description of her injury http://www.dynomed.com/encyclopedia/encyclopedia/pediatric_orthopedics/Fracture_of_the_Condyle_of_the_Distal_Humerus.html

Tomorrow she will get the stitches out from having the pins removed. She still cannot straighten or bend the arm fully, but is getting closer every day. She has 2 two inch scars on her inner elbow. She has a scar on the outside of the same elbow from an unfortunate run in with a puppy's teeth last summer!

>Evergreen State College (a WA state college where students design their own major and do tons of independent study - very unschooling-friendly)>>>

My neighbor has a degree in sociology from Evergreen. She has returned to college for a second degree in a different career. She is having problems with them accepting some of her credits. They want to give her a 2.0 for classes she is transferring, because Evergreen doesn't give grades. They give detailed evaluations instead. Because she is now pursuing a degree in a competitive field, her GPA could make a difference. She is neither a teen nor an unschooler, so her experience may be irrelevant to an unschooled young person. I thought I'd mention it though.

Mary Ellen

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

pam sorooshian

On Jul 5, 2004, at 9:41 AM, Tia Leschke wrote:

> "Sure she's my mom. Take a good look at our eyes," or
> something like that.

Or use what Roxana and I have used: "We look almost exactly alike - on
the inside."

-pam

National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/5/04 10:41:15 PM, leschke@... writes:

<<
Yeah. I'm sure he'll figure something out. I know he could get a job at the
bike store if they had enough business. >>

Maybe he could offer to volunteer.
If he's a regular "worker" and becomes knowledgeable of their routines, and
shows himself reliable, maybe he'll get the next open position.

<< I guess what I'm really looking for is validation for letting him
"grow up" at his own speed. I don't get that locally. >>

I wanted to go to college.
I was surprised when I got there to fine LOTS and lots of kids who had not
wanted to be there, but their parents forced them. Some of them were told
exactly what classes to take, by their parents. Some were cut off financially if
they changed majors. Of those kids I'm thinking of, they were all from out of
state. When their parents demanded college, the kids chose far, far away.
I don't think those things were unrelated at all.

So the kids were wild and sneaky and more prone to cheat because their
purpose was not learning, their purpose was making their parents just satisfied
enough to keep paying for it and to not rag on them too too much.

Kirby is going to be 18 by the end of the month. He talks about taking
classes sometimes but he's not in a hurry. I could rush him, but then it would be
me, not him. There's a branch of a local trades school/kind of jr. college
half a mile from where he works, and the university I attended is maybe ten
miles away. He's never talked about leaving town to go to school. He likes
it here. He likes us. Yet I know there are friends and relatives who see
that as wrong, and see a desperate desire to get the hell away as "success" of
some sort.

It's not thoughtful. It's not right. It doesn't make sense.

Sandra

April M

We're in the midst of this as well. My oldest "graduated" this year.
(Nothing has really changed, but she wanted a graduation party so we
'graduated' her). A number of her friends graduated (from school or
school-at-home) this year and have been busy getting into colleges and
planning the rest of their lives and seeing how fast they can move out. We
are not in a financial position to send our kids off to college...so that
route was never an option anyway. Kate has one job supervising a church
nursery and just got hired at Target for a 2nd job. Target was the first
interview she has ever went to that she didn't have an "in" (in other words,
she didn't already know someone or been referred by someone). After two
interviews in one day, she was hired on the spot. They never even asked
about her education. This isn't what she wants to do with the rest of her
life, but she's very excited to be there for the next few years...and it
will put her through Community College which is her next goal. This goal
could change in the next year or two...maybe she sill like it at Target and
want that to be her career....now she has a chance to find out. She will be
working 3 jobs, she has her own car, she is planning a trip to Europe to
visit her Aunt this fall, and she has time to spend with her siblings. She
volunteers with teams her younger brothers are a part of, she will be
assisting their drama group, she isn't going to disappear out of their lives
just because she is 18. She is almost an adult...but she is still growing
and changing.....she values and loves her independence...but isn't
interested in moving out yet. She house-sat for an Aunt this weekend and
came home knowing she would never want to live alone....she did not like
that. Moving out would not give her a lot more freedom than she already has
and unless she found some room-mates, would drive her crazy. Maybe she'll
change her mind in a few years or a few months...or maybe not. With all she
is doing and accomplishing, people still think it's odd that she is
willingly staying home and staying involved in the lives of her
family....like that's abnormal or something. Fortunately, we're long past
caring what anyone thinks and we happily go on with our lives....

~April
Mom to Kate-17, Lisa-15, Karl-13, & Ben-8.
*REACH Homeschool Group, an inclusive group meeting throughout Oakland
County.. http://www.homeschoolingonashoestring.com/REACH_home.html
*Michigan Youth Theater...Acting On Our Dreams...
<http://www.michiganyouththeater.org/>
"It must be remembered that the purpose of education is not to fill the
minds of students with facts... it is to teach them to think." ~~ Robert
Hutchins





-----Original Message-----
From: Tia Leschke [mailto:leschke@...]
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 3:41 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Moving from Unschooling to Adulthood was what to
say



>
>Kirby would have graduated from high school last month, if he had gone.

This is something I'd like to talk about. I know you don't expect Kirby to
be doing certain things by certain ages, like leaving home or going to
university next year, for instance. I'm curious how you (and others) think
about kids being ready to move on from home. Lars would graduate next
spring if he'd been in school. All his friends go to school, and some
graduated this year. From their parents I hear a constant pushing. "Get a
job, etc." It feels like they're in such a hurry to push their kids out
into the world. Even dh has talked about how Lars might want to be on his
own soon.

I don't have a problem with him wanting to get out on his own, whenever
that happens. But I also don't want him to feel pushed. He still hasn't
figured out what he wants to do with his life. His major interests
(softball, soccer, mountain biking, and film editing) don't look like they
lead into careers, except the film editing, but his interest there is
quite
narrow (mountain biking videos).

I've encouraged his involvement with all of those. We've also talked about
blue collar trades, since he's such a hands-on guy. He doesn't like book
learning and really dislikes writing. I know for the trades he's going to
need a certain level of math and language arts, depending on the trade.
I've told him we're glad to help when he wants to work on those things. He
says he does but doesn't do much about it. No problem. I'm not in a hurry.
Any thoughts on this?
Tia
ps Even though he still isn't playing because of his broken arm, his team
won the right yesterday to represent Western Canada in the International
Softball Congress in Fargo, ND next month. It's fairly certain he'll be
playing again by then. Yippee!


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In a message dated 7/6/04 8:54:01 AM, abmorris23@... writes:

<< She will be
working 3 jobs, she has her own car, she is planning a trip to Europe to
visit her Aunt this fall, and she has time to spend with her siblings. She
volunteers with teams her younger brothers are a part of, she will be
assisting their drama group >>

SEE?

That's a LOT.

There are high school grads who have never had a job, will never go to
Europe, don't have cars, dont like their siblings, have never helped coach or
produce plays...

There are adults who went to school *and college* who have never had a job,
will never go to Europe, don't have cars, dont like their siblings, have never
helped coach or produce plays...

-=-With all she
is doing and accomplishing, people still think it's odd that she is
willingly staying home and staying involved in the lives of her
family....like that's abnormal or something. -=-

If normal means common or average, it IS abnormal.
It's wonderfully superior to normal. <g>

Kirby has had a job for most of four years (early August, it's four years).
FOUR YEARS. And he's 17. He'll be barely 18 when it's four years, because
they hired him at barely 14, and would've hired him earlier had the law allowed.

There are adults working there. Four of them. I mean past-40-yr-olds.
Kirby outranks one of them. Two are owners. There are other kids working there,
a few. College, high school. Kirby outranks them at work. It's a part time
job, it doesn't have insurance and fancy benefits, but he has learned tons
there, and he's trusted by adults, and treated well. He doesn't make enough to
make a house payment and a car payment (though he could certainly make a car
payment if he wanted that more than he wanted gaming supplies and conventions).
If he asked them for more hours, they would probably give them to him.
Lately he's asked for more time off, because he has medieval camping obligations,
and went to a gaming convention near Dallas. He'll go to an anime convention
in Denver in September, and probably a gaming convention in southern
California in December.

How is that worse than having a first semester of college, taking English
101, math 100 (he doesn't know notation, but is chock full of concepts and
math-in-his-head), biology, karate and history? (At great expense; the books alone
might cost more than all his upcoming conventions. And at the end of
December he would be still a college freshman.)

I'm just not finding it in me to be agitated. <g>
And the calm feels good.

Sandra

Marty's interested in the police academy, but he can't go until he's 21. He
might not care by then. That's five and a half years away.

Tia Leschke

>
>
>Ouch! Lisa (11) broke her arm on a trampoline a couple of months ago, in
>a similar way. She went on to her arms on the tramp and must have twisted
>the wrong way. This website gives a good description of her injury
>http://www.dynomed.com/encyclopedia/encyclopedia/pediatric_orthopedics/Fracture_of_the_Condyle_of_the_Distal_Humerus.html

Ouch! I'm glad it was the head of the radius that Lars broke.


>Tomorrow she will get the stitches out from having the pins removed. She
>still cannot straighten or bend the arm fully, but is getting closer every
>day. She has 2 two inch scars on her inner elbow. She has a scar on the
>outside of the same elbow from an unfortunate run in with a puppy's teeth
>last summer!

Pins? Yikes! They didn't even cast Lars' arm. The doc knows he's an
athlete, and he wanted to preserve the strength and mobility of the arm and
elbow. It was hard at first to keep him comfortable without a cast. He
started with a sling, but that didn't do the trick. He kept bumping it and
sleeping on it, etc. Then the doc put on a half cast, which helped until
the pain was less. The half cast was held on with a tensor bandage. Then he
discovered an elbow brace, an elastic sleeve that goes around the elbow.
That's done the trick, and now he rarely needs it. He's got full range of
motion and almost complete strength. He's been using a tennis ball for
therapy, his own idea. He just holds it and squeezes it while watching TV
or whatever. It seems to have really helped.


> >Evergreen State College (a WA state college where students design their
> own major and do tons of independent study - very unschooling-friendly)>>>
>
>My neighbor has a degree in sociology from Evergreen. She has returned to
>college for a second degree in a different career. She is having problems
>with them accepting some of her credits. They want to give her a 2.0 for
>classes she is transferring, because Evergreen doesn't give grades. They
>give detailed evaluations instead. Because she is now pursuing a degree
>in a competitive field, her GPA could make a difference. She is neither a
>teen nor an unschooler, so her experience may be irrelevant to an
>unschooled young person. I thought I'd mention it though.

That would definitely be a consideration. I doubt Lars will be going to
colllege in the States though, even if he does go to college somewhere.
Tia

Tia Leschke

>
>
><<
>Yeah. I'm sure he'll figure something out. I know he could get a job at the
>bike store if they had enough business. >>
>
>Maybe he could offer to volunteer.
>If he's a regular "worker" and becomes knowledgeable of their routines, and
>shows himself reliable, maybe he'll get the next open position.

He's done a lot of that. Both the previous owner and the current one let
the boys come in and use the shop tools to work on their own bikes, with
the owner offering advice, etc. It's been a really nice mentoring
relationship for him. Of all the boys, Lars seems to be the one willing to
help out when the store gets busy if he's there. In fact it was helping out
there that made him realize that his writing needs work. His spelling is
still so bad that he's uncomfortable with having to write anything down at
the store. He realized that he'd have to improve it if he ever wanted to
run his own business. He just hasn't gotten around to doing anything about
it yet. <g>


><< I guess what I'm really looking for is validation for letting him
>"grow up" at his own speed. I don't get that locally. >>
>
>I wanted to go to college.
>I was surprised when I got there to fine LOTS and lots of kids who had not
>wanted to be there, but their parents forced them. Some of them were told
>exactly what classes to take, by their parents. Some were cut off
>financially if
>they changed majors. Of those kids I'm thinking of, they were all from
>out of
>state. When their parents demanded college, the kids chose far, far away.
>I don't think those things were unrelated at all.

A couple of Lars' friends who just graduated are going to university in
Victoria, an hour's drive away. They've convinced their parents to let them
live in the dorms next year, "for the experience". I think they just want
to get away. Now those same parents are complaining about the cost of
sending them to university . . . sigh. Lars knows that he could live at
home while going to the community college, but we could never afford any
other kind of help. But he doesn't need to get away in order to experience
freedom. He's got that here.


>Kirby is going to be 18 by the end of the month. He talks about taking
>classes sometimes but he's not in a hurry. I could rush him, but then it
>would be
>me, not him. There's a branch of a local trades school/kind of jr.
>college
>half a mile from where he works, and the university I attended is maybe ten
>miles away. He's never talked about leaving town to go to school. He
>likes
>it here. He likes us. Yet I know there are friends and relatives who see
>that as wrong, and see a desperate desire to get the hell away as
>"success" of
>some sort.

This was what I needed to hear. Thanks.
Tia

Tia Leschke

This also helps. Thanks. I needed a dose of support like this.
Tia

>We're in the midst of this as well. My oldest "graduated" this year.
>(Nothing has really changed, but she wanted a graduation party so we
>'graduated' her). A number of her friends graduated (from school or
>school-at-home) this year and have been busy getting into colleges and
>planning the rest of their lives and seeing how fast they can move out. We
>are not in a financial position to send our kids off to college...so that
>route was never an option anyway.

snip

superdiva58us

This is something that pops in my head every now and again too. My
eldest is 14. Almost all of my friends whose children attend school
make constant reference getting their children to leave home -- and
some of them even talk about remodeling their kids' rooms so they
can't move back home! It makes me sad to hear people talk that way
about their children -- I wonder how safe their kids feel inside their
homes, or if they even feel at home in their homes with their parents
all the time talking about getting them out the moment they turn 18 of
graduate from high school. Those parents have adversarial
relationships with their kids -- I always hear them arguing and
shouting at each other.

I just can't imagine my son leaving home in four or five years. I
think he wants to go to college because when we've visited college
campuses he's really expressed joy at the being surrounded by an
academic environment. The two colleges that he's indicated interest
in attending are in-state and one is right in our local community.
Another friend whose daughter has expressed interest in attending the
same school said that even though that school is right in our own
backyard, she's going to insist that her daughter live in the dorms
because "it's part of the college experience." When I share my
thoughts about not looking forward to the day when my child leaves the
nest, they all tell me -- "Just wait a couple of years -- then you
will!" Will I? Don't think so! This nuclear nest-shoving is an
unnatural state of being for families. How did we ever get to the
point where it became the expected "norm" to separate from the family
at age 18 or 21? Isn't that just another institutionalized
school-directed imposition on family life? At what cost to society?
What is the supposed benefit of having children leave home so early?

~ Alicia

Tia wrote: ---snip--- All his friends go to school, and some
> graduated this year. From their parents I hear a constant pushing.
"Get a
> job, etc." It feels like they're in such a hurry to push their
kids out
> into the world. Even dh has talked about how Lars might want to be
on his
> own soon.
>
> I don't have a problem with him wanting to get out on his own,
whenever
> that happens. But I also don't want him to feel pushed. He still
hasn't
> figured out what he wants to do with his life. His major interests
> (softball, soccer, mountain biking, and film editing) don't look
like they
> lead into careers, except the film editing, but his interest there is
> quite
> narrow (mountain biking videos).
>
>