Patti

Hi All,

I have a question about freedom and choice, or what is related to it
more to the point.....

I totally get what has been written here by Sandra and you all....

Here is my question....

How do you relate to others who just do not seem to get it?

I ask this because I am this situation with two people in my life
right now, both whom do not get this concept of choice and freedom
at all. It is frustrating and I find myself distancing myself from
them simply because they do not get it! They do not understand that
everything in their lives is a choice, including as someone wrote,
how they choose to feel and how they choose to interrelate with
myself and others.

I so wish to be close to these two people in my life, but their
negativity and emotional and energy draining behaviors are making it
next to impossible. I know this is there choice, but I am not sure
what my choices should be? Do I keep trying to brainstorm with them
in an attempt to "convert" them over to choice and freedom? Or do I
make the choice to give up these relationships?

Or are there other choices out there I may not be seeing?

Any words of direction, would be of great help here! :)

Thanks for this thread Sandra, it has been a great source of
inspiration for me! :) I am thoroughly enjoying reading all of the
perspectives on this! It is so ironically funny to me how anytime
thee is something that I am grappling with in my life or the kids
are in their lives or just something that is a matter of interest to
me or my kids (i.e. when my middle son was taking interest in the
guitar, or egg hatching etc.) somehow, the same exact thing that
comes up in our lives here seems to pop up as a thread on one of the
many yahoo groups I am on! :)

So thank you Sandra and everyone! :)
Patti and the boys (Chris 13, Matthew 7, Anthony 6)
Life Long Learning Academy
http://www.life-long-learning-4-all.com/index.html
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Inclusivity/
"For no matter where knowledge and learning come from - no matter
what shape, size, or dimension it assumes - it still is what it is,
knowledge and learning. Therefore knowledge and learning should
always be embraced." ~ unknown

eriksmama2001

Basically, I have choosen to give up on "shoulds" for others and
myself. I was counseled that "you can not set boundaries for others,
you can only set boundaries for yourself". I am learning/practicing
this by being true to myself. If I really don't want to do something,
I say this or I negotiate for a common preference.

I think by demonstrating/modeling setting boundaries for myself,
others will see and learn that they too have this option. For
example, I choose to only have consensual relationships in my life.
This, sadly, meant that I chose to avoid/remove my father from my
life. No ultimatums, just: it is my choice. However, my husband
doesn't believe that he "has choices" at times, but he doesn't impose
his choices on me. I choose to continue to model limit setting in our
life. And my husband is learning to do so also. Slowly, painfully
slowly.

But he, of course, can continue to believe that he doesn't have
choices as long as they are not imposed on me (my boundary). I do not
impose freedom from "shoulds" on him, only he can choose to reject
this for himself. No matter how much I want it for him. Choice must
be intrinsically motivated, or there is no real choice.

_Happiness is a Choice_ written by Barry Neil Kaufman of the Option
Institute is fascinating and empowering. You can find the Option
Institute on line. My husband is going to one of their seminars in a
couple of weeks. The book has been life/attitude changing already for
us.

Pat


--- In [email protected], "Patti" <Diamondlady1025@h...>
wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I have a question about freedom and choice, or what is related to
it
> more to the point.....
>
> I totally get what has been written here by Sandra and you all....
>
> Here is my question....
>
> How do you relate to others who just do not seem to get it?
>
> I ask this because I am this situation with two people in my life
> right now, both whom do not get this concept of choice and freedom
> at all. It is frustrating and I find myself distancing myself from
> them simply because they do not get it! They do not understand that
> everything in their lives is a choice, including as someone wrote,
> how they choose to feel and how they choose to interrelate with
> myself and others.
>
> I so wish to be close to these two people in my life, but their
> negativity and emotional and energy draining behaviors are making
it
> next to impossible. I know this is there choice, but I am not sure
> what my choices should be? Do I keep trying to brainstorm with them
> in an attempt to "convert" them over to choice and freedom? Or do I
> make the choice to give up these relationships?
>
> Or are there other choices out there I may not be seeing?
>
> Any words of direction, would be of great help here! :)
>
> Thanks for this thread Sandra, it has been a great source of
> inspiration for me! :) I am thoroughly enjoying reading all of the
> perspectives on this! It is so ironically funny to me how anytime
> thee is something that I am grappling with in my life or the kids
> are in their lives or just something that is a matter of interest
to
> me or my kids (i.e. when my middle son was taking interest in the
> guitar, or egg hatching etc.) somehow, the same exact thing that
> comes up in our lives here seems to pop up as a thread on one of
the
> many yahoo groups I am on! :)
>
> So thank you Sandra and everyone! :)
> Patti and the boys (Chris 13, Matthew 7, Anthony 6)
> Life Long Learning Academy
> http://www.life-long-learning-4-all.com/index.html
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Inclusivity/
> "For no matter where knowledge and learning come from - no matter
> what shape, size, or dimension it assumes - it still is what it is,
> knowledge and learning. Therefore knowledge and learning should
> always be embraced." ~ unknown

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/24/2004 3:58:31 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
Diamondlady1025@... writes:
How do you relate to others who just do not seem to get it?
--------------------------------

Depends what my relationship with them is otherwise.

-=-It is frustrating and I find myself distancing myself from
them simply because they do not get it!-=-

I do that if they're going to keep on me about it. Then I might just stop
seeking out their company.

In my life there are some people (like childless friends, I mean) who for one
reason or another will listen to me, and if they're being whiney or negative,
I can speak freely and say "You could just look at it that way." Or I can
make a joke.

-=-I so wish to be close to these two people in my life, but their
negativity and emotional and energy draining behaviors are making it
next to impossible. -=-

I have used my kids as an excuse (not an excuse, a really true reason) a
couple of times. I've asked two different people to be less negative at my
house, because we're trying to keep a really happy nest for the kids.

It wasn't really an "If you don't mind" situation, either. The message was
"IF you want to hang around here, or talk while you're here, it needs to be
more positive and optimistic."

One was my sister.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robyn Coburn

<<I so wish to be close to these two people in my life, but their
negativity and emotional and energy draining behaviors are making it
next to impossible. I know this is there choice, but I am not sure
what my choices should be? Do I keep trying to brainstorm with them
in an attempt to "convert" them over to choice and freedom? Or do I
make the choice to give up these relationships?>>>

It is frustrating when you feel that you have a wonderful epiphany of how
great life can be, and other people just seem blind. Then there are people
who take your friendship as license to make rude or judgmental comments to
you because your choices have been different. Relatives are harder. I am
incredible fortunate in that my dh is totally into it.

I have had to sadly let go of at least one friendship because she started
saying mean things about homeschooling (let alone Un). Ironically it was in
the context of a conversation about her concern that the daycare place that
her then 2 yo was in, was pushing early academics onto him. I must have said
the wrong thing. Wish I could remember what it was.

Anyway, I didn't turn around and say, "I can't see you anymore, you're an
ass" despite a strong desire to do so. I just haven't called her in a long
time. I can only assume she feels the same, since she has not called me
either. We live very different lives, despite both being mothers. I hope if
she ever genuinely wants a different take on education she calls me. Since
no ultimata were tossed around, that should be simple.

The people who I have known for ever, as it were, are all back in Australia.
Most of them are alternative thinkers of one sort or another, and so are
very supportive of the whole idea. Gee, it makes me feel like sending an
email of gratitude to them.

Robyn L. Coburn





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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Patti

Robyn,

Yes, I too understand what you mean.

I have had so many epiphany's in life, mine and my children's in the
last year and a half and I do not always feel I can share them with
these two people in my life.

One of these people is a friend whom I have just made in the lst
month. She is apart of the parkday I co-lead and it is a sense of
frustration, knowing that she has many exclusivity issues that are
not only effecting our friendship but that of the group I co-lead.
So I must strive to view this relationship from both a friendship
and leader perspective. I do not wish to exclude her, however, her
negativity and exclusionary behaviors are hurting people. So therein
lies my struggle. The challenges of my being a leader in the
homelearning community! :)

The other relationship is one that I share with my husband. We have
been separated for 2 months now, and one of the meany issues
separating us in heart and in spirit is that of life learning
(unschooling). This is a relationship though he may not know it, I
cherish completely. But I feel very torn because he does not view
the children's lives as one of choice. He does not see the value of
life learning for what it truly is, despite my attempts to show him
the path. (Yes, Sandra he does have your site!:) I feel quite lonely
and sad at times not being able to share all the wonder and awe in
life, in being free for our children and us all to choose, in
unschooling with him.


I feel very happy and blessed for you, that you have a husband that
embraces your views and supports you. I too long for this and am
searching for a way to have this with him. I do not know whether it
is possible but I am searching.

Patti and the boys (Chris 13, Matthew 7, Anthony 6)
Life Long Learning Academy
http://www.life-long-learning-4-all.com/index.html
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Inclusivity/
"For no matter where knowledge and learning come from - no matter
what shape, size, or dimension it assumes - it still is what it is,
knowledge and learning. Therefore knowledge and learning should
always be embraced." ~ unknown







--- In [email protected], "Robyn Coburn" <dezigna@c...>
wrote:
> <<I so wish to be close to these two people in my life, but their
> negativity and emotional and energy draining behaviors are making
it
> next to impossible. I know this is there choice, but I am not sure
> what my choices should be? Do I keep trying to brainstorm with
them
> in an attempt to "convert" them over to choice and freedom? Or do
I
> make the choice to give up these relationships?>>>
>
> It is frustrating when you feel that you have a wonderful epiphany
of how
> great life can be, and other people just seem blind. Then there
are people
> who take your friendship as license to make rude or judgmental
comments to
> you because your choices have been different. Relatives are
harder. I am
> incredible fortunate in that my dh is totally into it.
>
> I have had to sadly let go of at least one friendship because she
started
> saying mean things about homeschooling (let alone Un). Ironically
it was in
> the context of a conversation about her concern that the daycare
place that
> her then 2 yo was in, was pushing early academics onto him. I must
have said
> the wrong thing. Wish I could remember what it was.
>
> Anyway, I didn't turn around and say, "I can't see you anymore,
you're an
> ass" despite a strong desire to do so. I just haven't called her
in a long
> time. I can only assume she feels the same, since she has not
called me
> either. We live very different lives, despite both being mothers.
I hope if
> she ever genuinely wants a different take on education she calls
me. Since
> no ultimata were tossed around, that should be simple.
>
> The people who I have known for ever, as it were, are all back in
Australia.
> Most of them are alternative thinkers of one sort or another, and
so are
> very supportive of the whole idea. Gee, it makes me feel like
sending an
> email of gratitude to them.
>
> Robyn L. Coburn
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.707 / Virus Database: 463 - Release Date: 6/15/2004