need a little advice
badolbilz
Hi everyone. I hope you're all having a happy Halloween. My little
ghosts are all chowing on candy and watching "Castle in the Sky."
I have a little awkward situation that I'm not sure how to handle and I
was hoping for some advice. Quick background info: I have for dd's
under 7 with the littlest who's going to be 1 on Nov. 30th. So...for
the last 6 months I've told the girls that I will no longer send them
places that they don't want to go and that if they choose they can stay
with me. So for almost all of the last 6 months we've been together.
They never would really go anywhere anyway, except to their
grandparents houses while dh and I went on a date. Now, my mom is okay
if the girls say they want to go home or whatever, but my mil just won't
let them call me if they feel they need to. She also puts my 3 yr old
in time out A LOT and usually it's because my 4 yr old niece tattled on
her for something she didn't even do. And my mil only invites my girls
if my niece is going and due to many unfortunate circumstances, my niece
is become VERY manipulative and sneaky. The older girls try to stick up
for their little sister, but my mil refuses to believe anyone but my
niece. Also, with my baby who's always slept with me and the older
girls, when she's with mil and she starts to cry, my mil puts in a crib
upstairs and tries to just leave her there. Usually my oldest just goes
up and gets in the crib, too, but it breaks my heart to think my baby
would have to go through that when she really just needs to be held.
So tonight, my mil said she'd watch the girls tomorrow night so dh and I
could go out. My mom also said she wanted the girls. Dh said they HAVE
to go to his mom's and that they should just learn that sometimes they
have to go where they don't want to. I just feel sick about the whole
thing and to be frank, now the last thing I want is to go out with dh
cause I'm so frustrated that he is so uninterested in his own children.
Anyway, what would you all do? I think I'll have to have a talk with my
mil, but she's such a now-it-all and NEVER admits she might be wrong.
Should I bother to talk to her? HELP!
Heidi
ghosts are all chowing on candy and watching "Castle in the Sky."
I have a little awkward situation that I'm not sure how to handle and I
was hoping for some advice. Quick background info: I have for dd's
under 7 with the littlest who's going to be 1 on Nov. 30th. So...for
the last 6 months I've told the girls that I will no longer send them
places that they don't want to go and that if they choose they can stay
with me. So for almost all of the last 6 months we've been together.
They never would really go anywhere anyway, except to their
grandparents houses while dh and I went on a date. Now, my mom is okay
if the girls say they want to go home or whatever, but my mil just won't
let them call me if they feel they need to. She also puts my 3 yr old
in time out A LOT and usually it's because my 4 yr old niece tattled on
her for something she didn't even do. And my mil only invites my girls
if my niece is going and due to many unfortunate circumstances, my niece
is become VERY manipulative and sneaky. The older girls try to stick up
for their little sister, but my mil refuses to believe anyone but my
niece. Also, with my baby who's always slept with me and the older
girls, when she's with mil and she starts to cry, my mil puts in a crib
upstairs and tries to just leave her there. Usually my oldest just goes
up and gets in the crib, too, but it breaks my heart to think my baby
would have to go through that when she really just needs to be held.
So tonight, my mil said she'd watch the girls tomorrow night so dh and I
could go out. My mom also said she wanted the girls. Dh said they HAVE
to go to his mom's and that they should just learn that sometimes they
have to go where they don't want to. I just feel sick about the whole
thing and to be frank, now the last thing I want is to go out with dh
cause I'm so frustrated that he is so uninterested in his own children.
Anyway, what would you all do? I think I'll have to have a talk with my
mil, but she's such a now-it-all and NEVER admits she might be wrong.
Should I bother to talk to her? HELP!
Heidi
Tia Leschke
>I think you need to talk with your husband. He obviously isn't on the same
>
>Anyway, what would you all do? I think I'll have to have a talk with my
>mil, but she's such a now-it-all and NEVER admits she might be wrong.
> Should I bother to talk to her? HELP!
page as you. Take the tack that you wouldn't be able to enjoy a date unless
you knew that your children were emotionally safe.
Tia
Sylvia Toyama
Heidi,
It's so hard to deal with grandparents who just don't get it. I would try to talk to her about it first. Maybe explaining that everyone -- her included -- will have a more pleasant visit if she can try to not let the baby cry it out. However, the whole situ with the niece is just toxic, and I'm not sure how to approach that one. We're lucky in that my Mom does get our choices, and dh is an only child so there are no unpleasant cousins. My own standard is that I certainly never require my kids to spend time with anyone who mistreats them, even if that person is another child. If your mil won't see the problem, then IMO the kids shouldn't be there when their cousin is visiting.
IF after explaining things to her and asking for her support -- and more importantly -- getting dh's support on this issue, things aren't better I'd just do my best to graciously avoid letting the kids be alone with mil. My Dad is somewhat like this, so I've never allowed my kids to be alone with him visiting. Maybe the occasional errand or such, but he's just not a safe place for my kids so we don't do that. With him, in particular, I did have a problem some years ago with him saying/doing things I didn't like while visiting in my home. I finally had to tell him how I felt, that it needed to stop right now. When he put on his 'hurt feelings' act, I reminded him that I'm the mother now, and the only way he sees his grandchildren is on my terms -- take it or leave it. He changed his ways -- at least around my kids.
I think first, it's really important to get your dh to see how much her treatment damages the kids.
Sylvia
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It's so hard to deal with grandparents who just don't get it. I would try to talk to her about it first. Maybe explaining that everyone -- her included -- will have a more pleasant visit if she can try to not let the baby cry it out. However, the whole situ with the niece is just toxic, and I'm not sure how to approach that one. We're lucky in that my Mom does get our choices, and dh is an only child so there are no unpleasant cousins. My own standard is that I certainly never require my kids to spend time with anyone who mistreats them, even if that person is another child. If your mil won't see the problem, then IMO the kids shouldn't be there when their cousin is visiting.
IF after explaining things to her and asking for her support -- and more importantly -- getting dh's support on this issue, things aren't better I'd just do my best to graciously avoid letting the kids be alone with mil. My Dad is somewhat like this, so I've never allowed my kids to be alone with him visiting. Maybe the occasional errand or such, but he's just not a safe place for my kids so we don't do that. With him, in particular, I did have a problem some years ago with him saying/doing things I didn't like while visiting in my home. I finally had to tell him how I felt, that it needed to stop right now. When he put on his 'hurt feelings' act, I reminded him that I'm the mother now, and the only way he sees his grandchildren is on my terms -- take it or leave it. He changed his ways -- at least around my kids.
I think first, it's really important to get your dh to see how much her treatment damages the kids.
Sylvia
---------------------------------
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Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
badolbilz
Sylvia Toyama wrote:
it, but I really don't want to. He's in the process of trying to keep
his brand new company afloat and it's sinking fast and he's the sole
income earner, so I don't really want to talk to him about it because to
him it's just not that important and no matter how much it matters to me
and the girls, it just doesn't to him. The way he sees it is that they
kids and they'll just have to work it out themselves. Obviously I don't
feel that way.
I talked to the girls a lot about it tonight. I was worried they
wouldn't want their Nani to know about things they've told me. But they
said I could tell her. It really does come down to my niece. But up
until last weekend, I never had a really strong case to argue because I
was never there when things happened. But last Sunday, my mil asked me
to watch my niece so that she and my sil could paint some rooms in her
new house. BTW, sil is divorced and very aggressive, spiteful, and full
of woe for herself (not just because of her life now, she's just always
been that way.) Anyway, the whole day, Alexis (niece) kept telling
Soleille (my 3 yr old) that she couldn't play with them because they
were only playing "big girl" games. I had to keep telling her, "no, in
this house everybody gets to play." So after Alexis went home, I find
out that she told my sil that she was a bad mom because she smoked.
When asked where she heard that she said, "AZ" meaning Aislinn, my 7 yr
old. Well, of course my mil and sil just believed her and I KNOW it
wasn't true because I was with them all day. Anyway... I'm going to
talk to her tomorrow as tactfully as I can.
As far as dh goes, he's never been really all that interested in the
girls and I never even asked him how he felt about my homeschooling and
then unschooling. We've talked about it a bit here and there but I just
feel like if he's not interested why should I have to ask him or discuss
it with him. Oh, I'm just wandering of the subject now...sorry.
Anyway thanks for the advice. Anyone know how to convince a mil to
change? According to my dh, she's always used a time-out chair. I did
tell my two older girls that if she put Soleille in the time-out chair,
they should just go sit with her and if Nani told them they had to
leave, they should just say no and if she got mad, they could say, "
see, we're being bad too so we need to be in time-out." At least then
Soleille wouldn't have to be there all alone. Also, and ironically, my
sil used to always get my dh in trouble for things he didn't do. Could
it be genetic?
Heidi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Heidi,Tia and Sylvia, you're both right. I know I need to talk to dh about
>
>It's so hard to deal with grandparents who just don't get it. I would try to talk to her about it first. Maybe explaining that everyone -- her included -- will have a more pleasant visit if she can try to not let the baby cry it out. However, the whole situ with the niece is just toxic, and I'm not sure how to approach that one. We're lucky in that my Mom does get our choices, and dh is an only child so there are no unpleasant cousins. My own standard is that I certainly never require my kids to spend time with anyone who mistreats them, even if that person is another child. If your mil won't see the problem, then IMO the kids shouldn't be there when their cousin is visiting.
>
>IF after explaining things to her and asking for her support -- and more importantly -- getting dh's support on this issue, things aren't better I'd just do my best to graciously avoid letting the kids be alone with mil. My Dad is somewhat like this, so I've never allowed my kids to be alone with him visiting. Maybe the occasional errand or such, but he's just not a safe place for my kids so we don't do that. With him, in particular, I did have a problem some years ago with him saying/doing things I didn't like while visiting in my home. I finally had to tell him how I felt, that it needed to stop right now. When he put on his 'hurt feelings' act, I reminded him that I'm the mother now, and the only way he sees his grandchildren is on my terms -- take it or leave it. He changed his ways -- at least around my kids.
>
>I think first, it's really important to get your dh to see how much her treatment damages the kids.
>
>Sylvia
>
>
>
>
>
>I think you need to talk with your husband. He obviously isn't on the same
>page as you. Take the tack that you wouldn't be able to enjoy a date unless
>you knew that your children were emotionally safe.
>
>Tia
>
it, but I really don't want to. He's in the process of trying to keep
his brand new company afloat and it's sinking fast and he's the sole
income earner, so I don't really want to talk to him about it because to
him it's just not that important and no matter how much it matters to me
and the girls, it just doesn't to him. The way he sees it is that they
kids and they'll just have to work it out themselves. Obviously I don't
feel that way.
I talked to the girls a lot about it tonight. I was worried they
wouldn't want their Nani to know about things they've told me. But they
said I could tell her. It really does come down to my niece. But up
until last weekend, I never had a really strong case to argue because I
was never there when things happened. But last Sunday, my mil asked me
to watch my niece so that she and my sil could paint some rooms in her
new house. BTW, sil is divorced and very aggressive, spiteful, and full
of woe for herself (not just because of her life now, she's just always
been that way.) Anyway, the whole day, Alexis (niece) kept telling
Soleille (my 3 yr old) that she couldn't play with them because they
were only playing "big girl" games. I had to keep telling her, "no, in
this house everybody gets to play." So after Alexis went home, I find
out that she told my sil that she was a bad mom because she smoked.
When asked where she heard that she said, "AZ" meaning Aislinn, my 7 yr
old. Well, of course my mil and sil just believed her and I KNOW it
wasn't true because I was with them all day. Anyway... I'm going to
talk to her tomorrow as tactfully as I can.
As far as dh goes, he's never been really all that interested in the
girls and I never even asked him how he felt about my homeschooling and
then unschooling. We've talked about it a bit here and there but I just
feel like if he's not interested why should I have to ask him or discuss
it with him. Oh, I'm just wandering of the subject now...sorry.
Anyway thanks for the advice. Anyone know how to convince a mil to
change? According to my dh, she's always used a time-out chair. I did
tell my two older girls that if she put Soleille in the time-out chair,
they should just go sit with her and if Nani told them they had to
leave, they should just say no and if she got mad, they could say, "
see, we're being bad too so we need to be in time-out." At least then
Soleille wouldn't have to be there all alone. Also, and ironically, my
sil used to always get my dh in trouble for things he didn't do. Could
it be genetic?
Heidi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Hartley
I wouldn't bother talking to mil, because I wouldn't leave my children with
her again except in the most dire emergency (in other words not for a date,
maybe for a house fire).
When we had tiny dependent children, Wally and I came to accept that private
couple time was going to be in very short (often non-existent) supply. Life
is a series of cycles, and the raising-children-under-five cycle is hard,
but not impossible, if both parents can recognize that it doesn't last
forever. Frankly, it was difficult to convince Wally that our sex life would
EVER be "normal" (for us) again. It gets easier. ;)
Tell your husband that you're happy to leave them with your mother (if you
are) and that's the only way you feel comfortable leaving them right now. If
you don't speak up for your daughters, who will?
Best wishes,
Pam
----------
her again except in the most dire emergency (in other words not for a date,
maybe for a house fire).
When we had tiny dependent children, Wally and I came to accept that private
couple time was going to be in very short (often non-existent) supply. Life
is a series of cycles, and the raising-children-under-five cycle is hard,
but not impossible, if both parents can recognize that it doesn't last
forever. Frankly, it was difficult to convince Wally that our sex life would
EVER be "normal" (for us) again. It gets easier. ;)
Tell your husband that you're happy to leave them with your mother (if you
are) and that's the only way you feel comfortable leaving them right now. If
you don't speak up for your daughters, who will?
Best wishes,
Pam
----------
>From: badolbilz <ynxn96@...>
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [AlwaysLearning] need a little advice
>Date: Fri, Oct 31, 2003, 6:00 PM
>
> Anyway, what would you all do? I think I'll have to have a talk with my
> mil, but she's such a now-it-all and NEVER admits she might be wrong.
> Should I bother to talk to her? HELP!
joylyn
There is no way in hell I'd let my children go visit your mil without me
right there to supervise things. You have many years for dates, when
your own children are old enough to stay with each other, or when they
are out of the house. Right now, my focus is my children, their needs
while they are small and need me so much. It will come all too soon
that my children will need me less and I can do what I want.
Letting children cry in a crib is abusive, in my opinion. Not letting
children call their mother is also abusive. I also am deciding that I
no longer believe in Time Out, at least not in the way most people do
it. I did put a sixth grader in time out today at the halloween dance,
as I had warned him about five time sthat he needed to settle down and
stop running through the crowds of kids, but basically I just simply
walked him outside and asked him to take a few minutes and then he could
come back into the dance. He just needed a break from the action. It
wasn't punitive, it was a break.
It sounds like you might need to have a long talk with your husband
about how you wish to parent your children, because what you describe
your mil doing is not respectful parenting, and if your husband really
is going along with it, and doesn't respect your kids and their needs
and opinions, then he is also not practicing loving and respectful
parenting.
Sorry, just saying it like I see it, based on your description below.
Joylyn
badolbilz wrote:
right there to supervise things. You have many years for dates, when
your own children are old enough to stay with each other, or when they
are out of the house. Right now, my focus is my children, their needs
while they are small and need me so much. It will come all too soon
that my children will need me less and I can do what I want.
Letting children cry in a crib is abusive, in my opinion. Not letting
children call their mother is also abusive. I also am deciding that I
no longer believe in Time Out, at least not in the way most people do
it. I did put a sixth grader in time out today at the halloween dance,
as I had warned him about five time sthat he needed to settle down and
stop running through the crowds of kids, but basically I just simply
walked him outside and asked him to take a few minutes and then he could
come back into the dance. He just needed a break from the action. It
wasn't punitive, it was a break.
It sounds like you might need to have a long talk with your husband
about how you wish to parent your children, because what you describe
your mil doing is not respectful parenting, and if your husband really
is going along with it, and doesn't respect your kids and their needs
and opinions, then he is also not practicing loving and respectful
parenting.
Sorry, just saying it like I see it, based on your description below.
Joylyn
badolbilz wrote:
> Hi everyone. I hope you're all having a happy Halloween. My little[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> ghosts are all chowing on candy and watching "Castle in the Sky."
>
> I have a little awkward situation that I'm not sure how to handle and I
> was hoping for some advice. Quick background info: I have for dd's
> under 7 with the littlest who's going to be 1 on Nov. 30th. So...for
> the last 6 months I've told the girls that I will no longer send them
> places that they don't want to go and that if they choose they can stay
> with me. So for almost all of the last 6 months we've been together.
> They never would really go anywhere anyway, except to their
> grandparents houses while dh and I went on a date. Now, my mom is okay
> if the girls say they want to go home or whatever, but my mil just won't
> let them call me if they feel they need to. She also puts my 3 yr old
> in time out A LOT and usually it's because my 4 yr old niece tattled on
> her for something she didn't even do. And my mil only invites my girls
> if my niece is going and due to many unfortunate circumstances, my niece
> is become VERY manipulative and sneaky. The older girls try to stick up
> for their little sister, but my mil refuses to believe anyone but my
> niece. Also, with my baby who's always slept with me and the older
> girls, when she's with mil and she starts to cry, my mil puts in a crib
> upstairs and tries to just leave her there. Usually my oldest just goes
> up and gets in the crib, too, but it breaks my heart to think my baby
> would have to go through that when she really just needs to be held.
>
> So tonight, my mil said she'd watch the girls tomorrow night so dh and I
> could go out. My mom also said she wanted the girls. Dh said they HAVE
> to go to his mom's and that they should just learn that sometimes they
> have to go where they don't want to. I just feel sick about the whole
> thing and to be frank, now the last thing I want is to go out with dh
> cause I'm so frustrated that he is so uninterested in his own children.
>
> Anyway, what would you all do? I think I'll have to have a talk with my
> mil, but she's such a now-it-all and NEVER admits she might be wrong.
> Should I bother to talk to her? HELP!
>
> Heidi
>
>
>
>
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AM Brown
>. Dh said they HAVEEveryone has covered my suggestions (talk to mil, if no changes don't leave
> to go to his mom's and that they should just learn that sometimes they
> have to go where they don't want to.
them there alone). But I had to address dh's comment. This is something
adults say so often and it drives me crazy! Adults do NOT have to go
places or do things they don't want to. We have choices! If an adult
finds themselves doing things or going places they don't want to it is time
to examine why. Life is full of choices for adults. I want my children to
realize that and making sure they can make decisions for themselves now is
crucial to that. I don't want them to be bitter adults that believe they
have no control over their lives and happiness. I would never stay in a
place that locked me in a room when I was upset or punished me and
separated me from my loved ones. Why in the world should your children be
forced to do that?
Your children can enjoy your mil presence with you there and maybe she
could see some different ways to handle unexpected situations. 4 under 7
is a lot, if they aren't your own, she may just need some tools. It sounds
like dh is going through a difficult time at work but again we all have
choices. Your girls have shared their feelings with you and I hope they
will feel heard and important and protected. It probably took a lot for
them to share their feelings about their dad's mom and their cousin.
Good luck! Anna
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/31/03 08:07:41 PM Central Standard Time,
ynxn96@... writes:
but my mil just won't
let them call me if they feel they need to. She also puts my 3 yr old
in time out A LOT and usually it's because my 4 yr old niece tattled on
her for something she didn't even do. And my mil only invites my girls
if my niece is going and due to many unfortunate circumstances, my niece
is become VERY manipulative and sneaky. The older girls try to stick up
for their little sister, but my mil refuses to believe anyone but my
niece. Also, with my baby who's always slept with me and the older
girls, when she's with mil and she starts to cry, my mil puts in a crib
upstairs and tries to just leave her there. Usually my oldest just goes
up and gets in the crib, too, but it breaks my heart to think my baby
would have to go through that when she really just needs to be held.
############
That is my MIL too. She won't let Moly call and/or if she is talking to DH or
me on the phone and Moly wants to talk, she stands right by the phone
dictating what she says and will take the phone away at any time. So finally I told
Moly she didn't have to go if she didn't want too and Moly chose not to go for
about two years. Now when Moly goes and Ginny pulls this crap, Moly will call
Darin or me herself and request to go home before Ginny has the chance to
dictate or to take the phone away.
#############
So tonight, my mil said she'd watch the girls tomorrow night so dh and I
could go out. My mom also said she wanted the girls. Dh said they HAVE
to go to his mom's and that they should just learn that sometimes they
have to go where they don't want to. I just feel sick about the whole
thing and to be frank, now the last thing I want is to go out with dh
cause I'm so frustrated that he is so uninterested in his own children.
Anyway, what would you all do? I think I'll have to have a talk with my
mil, but she's such a now-it-all and NEVER admits she might be wrong.
Should I bother to talk to her? HELP!
Heidi
##########
I would talk to her. I would talk to DH first though. I would impress on him
what it feels like to be small. Remember when you were a kid and your
grandma's house was so big and she was so old and tall? Even if she was in her early
fifties and was only five feet four inches? Remind him of that. Remind him of
the strange shadows at night and the creaks and groans of an unfamiliar house.
Remind him what it feels like to only want one thing when you are scared and
uncomfortable and that is the comfort of parents and a familiar bed and the
smell of your very own pillow. When he gets that picture then both of you can go
to her and talk to her about the problems and ways you want things done. One
thing I always remind Darin when we have a conflict with his mom is that she
had her chance to be the parent, it's our turn now.
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ynxn96@... writes:
but my mil just won't
let them call me if they feel they need to. She also puts my 3 yr old
in time out A LOT and usually it's because my 4 yr old niece tattled on
her for something she didn't even do. And my mil only invites my girls
if my niece is going and due to many unfortunate circumstances, my niece
is become VERY manipulative and sneaky. The older girls try to stick up
for their little sister, but my mil refuses to believe anyone but my
niece. Also, with my baby who's always slept with me and the older
girls, when she's with mil and she starts to cry, my mil puts in a crib
upstairs and tries to just leave her there. Usually my oldest just goes
up and gets in the crib, too, but it breaks my heart to think my baby
would have to go through that when she really just needs to be held.
############
That is my MIL too. She won't let Moly call and/or if she is talking to DH or
me on the phone and Moly wants to talk, she stands right by the phone
dictating what she says and will take the phone away at any time. So finally I told
Moly she didn't have to go if she didn't want too and Moly chose not to go for
about two years. Now when Moly goes and Ginny pulls this crap, Moly will call
Darin or me herself and request to go home before Ginny has the chance to
dictate or to take the phone away.
#############
So tonight, my mil said she'd watch the girls tomorrow night so dh and I
could go out. My mom also said she wanted the girls. Dh said they HAVE
to go to his mom's and that they should just learn that sometimes they
have to go where they don't want to. I just feel sick about the whole
thing and to be frank, now the last thing I want is to go out with dh
cause I'm so frustrated that he is so uninterested in his own children.
Anyway, what would you all do? I think I'll have to have a talk with my
mil, but she's such a now-it-all and NEVER admits she might be wrong.
Should I bother to talk to her? HELP!
Heidi
##########
I would talk to her. I would talk to DH first though. I would impress on him
what it feels like to be small. Remember when you were a kid and your
grandma's house was so big and she was so old and tall? Even if she was in her early
fifties and was only five feet four inches? Remind him of that. Remind him of
the strange shadows at night and the creaks and groans of an unfamiliar house.
Remind him what it feels like to only want one thing when you are scared and
uncomfortable and that is the comfort of parents and a familiar bed and the
smell of your very own pillow. When he gets that picture then both of you can go
to her and talk to her about the problems and ways you want things done. One
thing I always remind Darin when we have a conflict with his mom is that she
had her chance to be the parent, it's our turn now.
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/31/2003 8:07:58 PM Central Standard Time,
ynxn96@... writes:
Anyway, what would you all do? I think I'll have to have a talk with my
mil, but she's such a now-it-all and NEVER admits she might be wrong.
Should I bother to talk to her? HELP!
If I really felt that way about my husband and my MIL, then I think I would
just stay home with the kids. I don't need to go out so bad that I'd put my
kids with someone who doesn't treat them well.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ynxn96@... writes:
Anyway, what would you all do? I think I'll have to have a talk with my
mil, but she's such a now-it-all and NEVER admits she might be wrong.
Should I bother to talk to her? HELP!
If I really felt that way about my husband and my MIL, then I think I would
just stay home with the kids. I don't need to go out so bad that I'd put my
kids with someone who doesn't treat them well.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/31/2003 9:16:13 PM Central Standard Time,
syltoyama@... writes:
If your mil won't see the problem, then IMO the kids shouldn't be there when
their cousin is visiting.
I have a hunch the MIL doesn't want ANY kids around her, really, but feels
obligated...and she will only take the niece if there are kids there to play
with her.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
syltoyama@... writes:
If your mil won't see the problem, then IMO the kids shouldn't be there when
their cousin is visiting.
I have a hunch the MIL doesn't want ANY kids around her, really, but feels
obligated...and she will only take the niece if there are kids there to play
with her.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Julie
Heidi wrote:
<<Tia and Sylvia, you're both right. I know I need to talk to dh about
it, but I really don't want to. He's in the process of trying to keep
his brand new company afloat and it's sinking fast and he's the sole
income earner, so I don't really want to talk to him about it because to
him it's just not that important and no matter how much it matters to me
and the girls, it just doesn't to him. The way he sees it is that they
kids and they'll just have to work it out themselves. Obviously I don't
feel that way.>>
It sounds as though both you and your husband are worried about things that are important to you. Maybe if you talked to your husband about the company and invited him to share his concerns, he might not feel so alone and stressed. Then you could share your concerns about your mil. In this situation, you'd be supporting each other, not dumping on him.
As far as leaving your children with your mil, how about digging your heels in and refusing to go out? This would send the message to your husband that it's really important to you. You can spend your "date" time working out a solution instead of worrying about your kids.
Julie B., who doesn't have kids yet and may be barking up the wrong tree :)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<<Tia and Sylvia, you're both right. I know I need to talk to dh about
it, but I really don't want to. He's in the process of trying to keep
his brand new company afloat and it's sinking fast and he's the sole
income earner, so I don't really want to talk to him about it because to
him it's just not that important and no matter how much it matters to me
and the girls, it just doesn't to him. The way he sees it is that they
kids and they'll just have to work it out themselves. Obviously I don't
feel that way.>>
It sounds as though both you and your husband are worried about things that are important to you. Maybe if you talked to your husband about the company and invited him to share his concerns, he might not feel so alone and stressed. Then you could share your concerns about your mil. In this situation, you'd be supporting each other, not dumping on him.
As far as leaving your children with your mil, how about digging your heels in and refusing to go out? This would send the message to your husband that it's really important to you. You can spend your "date" time working out a solution instead of worrying about your kids.
Julie B., who doesn't have kids yet and may be barking up the wrong tree :)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/1/03 6:08:39 AM, jlist@... writes:
<< As far as leaving your children with your mil, how about digging your
heels in and refusing to go out? This would send the message to your husband that
it's really important to you. You can spend your "date" time working out a
solution instead of worrying about your kids. >>
If that's the woman who raised the husband, giving him more of the same
inflexible treatment won't convince him of the value of being tender and
understanding. Inside many men (and maybe most or all) is a little boy who didn't get
enough soft and quiet and could still use some.
My husband's mom is really controlling. When I'm there I gently thwart her,
giving my children permission when I can override her easily. My favorite
moment was when she wouldn't let Marty have dessert when he was three or so
because he hadn't finished his plate. I slid mine over in front of him gently and
said "Here, Marty, you can have mine." It was about two tablespoons of some
unattractive raisen-compote looking stuff. Not nearly bread pudding, but
cheap fruit and mystery stuff. Marty was calm and grateful and mil didn't say a
word.
What I've done when kids are going where the rules are different is just
coach them before and sympathize after. It makes them appreciate home better!
About the time out and crib time, I'd just ask the kids as a group to help
each other out and don't leave anyone all alone if she wants company.
I would make eye contact with the grandmother and say in a friendly voice "If
they want to call us, let them," and then say to the childen in her hearing
"Call if you just want to talk!"
Sandra
<< As far as leaving your children with your mil, how about digging your
heels in and refusing to go out? This would send the message to your husband that
it's really important to you. You can spend your "date" time working out a
solution instead of worrying about your kids. >>
If that's the woman who raised the husband, giving him more of the same
inflexible treatment won't convince him of the value of being tender and
understanding. Inside many men (and maybe most or all) is a little boy who didn't get
enough soft and quiet and could still use some.
My husband's mom is really controlling. When I'm there I gently thwart her,
giving my children permission when I can override her easily. My favorite
moment was when she wouldn't let Marty have dessert when he was three or so
because he hadn't finished his plate. I slid mine over in front of him gently and
said "Here, Marty, you can have mine." It was about two tablespoons of some
unattractive raisen-compote looking stuff. Not nearly bread pudding, but
cheap fruit and mystery stuff. Marty was calm and grateful and mil didn't say a
word.
What I've done when kids are going where the rules are different is just
coach them before and sympathize after. It makes them appreciate home better!
About the time out and crib time, I'd just ask the kids as a group to help
each other out and don't leave anyone all alone if she wants company.
I would make eye contact with the grandmother and say in a friendly voice "If
they want to call us, let them," and then say to the childen in her hearing
"Call if you just want to talk!"
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/1/03 1:08:49 AM, ambdkf@... writes:
<< Adults do NOT have to go
places or do things they don't want to. >>
Well...
There's signing up for the draft, getting a license renewed, H&R Block (or
going into seclusion and suffering through tax reporting), and there is
sometimes jail.
It might be worth discussing those things with your husband and while in
humor-mode, suggest you'd hate for "going to grandma's" to be on their list along
with draft/tax/prison.
<< I would never stay in a place that locked me in a room when I was upset or
punished me and separated me from my loved ones. >>
Military and prison do that to people.
You'd stay if your choice was more jail or worse.
Sandra
<< Adults do NOT have to go
places or do things they don't want to. >>
Well...
There's signing up for the draft, getting a license renewed, H&R Block (or
going into seclusion and suffering through tax reporting), and there is
sometimes jail.
It might be worth discussing those things with your husband and while in
humor-mode, suggest you'd hate for "going to grandma's" to be on their list along
with draft/tax/prison.
<< I would never stay in a place that locked me in a room when I was upset or
punished me and separated me from my loved ones. >>
Military and prison do that to people.
You'd stay if your choice was more jail or worse.
Sandra
AM Brown
>(or
> << Adults do NOT have to go
> places or do things they don't want to. >>
>
> Well...
> There's signing up for the draft, getting a license renewed, H&R Block
> going into seclusion and suffering through tax reporting), and there isI don't buy license renewal - you choose to do it because you want a
> sometimes jail.
license. Taxes - more so - but there are people that don't pay and you
could go elsewhere. Jail absolutely and military but you often do
something that puts you in those situation (break the law or join the
military). My point is that it is a much more positive and powerful
position to be in to say I am choosing to stand in line at the DMV because
I like to drive and not be breaking the laws of my country. If not move to
NYC. I have many friends there that don't have driver's license.
>Yes, but I would still be choosing. These children are stating their
> Military and prison do that to people.
> You'd stay if your choice was more jail or worse.
choice (not to go) and instead of it happening it is up to 3 adults. That
is what I see as the challenge.
Anna
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/1/03 7:30:11 AM, ambdkf@... writes:
<< My point is that it is a much more positive and powerful
position to be in to say I am choosing to stand in line at the DMV because
I like to drive and not be breaking the laws of my country. If not move to
NYC. I have many friends there that don't have driver's license. >>
I understand. I was trying to make the point that a blanket unqualified
statement is likely to be untrue, and if speaking to one's husband about something
really important which will be emotionally charged for him, truth is better
than blanket fallacy.
Husbands don't have to stay with their wives and children. Many choose to.
To tell one of those, who chooses to go to work even when he doesn't want to,
that adults never have to go where they don't want to might be a big tactical
error. He might not choose to remain in that conversation at that time.
Knowing more, children might choose to go to grandma's. Depends what all
the "more" might be. My children have all visited my mother this week. Kirby
hadn't seen her for about three years, but this week he chose to go. It wasn't
his preference, but he went against preference and inconvenienced himself
because it's her birthday and she's unlikely to have another one. I didn't make
him go. He left a LAN party early and came home to go with us.
<<> Military and prison do that to people.
Nobody signs up for the military hoping to end up in solitary confinement
facing a dishonorable discharge. And kids might agree to go to grandma's and
then want to bail. Sometimes that's possibile. Occasionally it's not.
<<These children are stating their
choice (not to go) and instead of it happening it is up to 3 adults. >>
There are six people involved and three are being discounted. Four counting
the mom's being discounted. Yes, that's a problem. But it can be better
prevented in the future with persuasive argument than with the addition of more
emotional blocking and blackmailing.
Sandra
<< My point is that it is a much more positive and powerful
position to be in to say I am choosing to stand in line at the DMV because
I like to drive and not be breaking the laws of my country. If not move to
NYC. I have many friends there that don't have driver's license. >>
I understand. I was trying to make the point that a blanket unqualified
statement is likely to be untrue, and if speaking to one's husband about something
really important which will be emotionally charged for him, truth is better
than blanket fallacy.
Husbands don't have to stay with their wives and children. Many choose to.
To tell one of those, who chooses to go to work even when he doesn't want to,
that adults never have to go where they don't want to might be a big tactical
error. He might not choose to remain in that conversation at that time.
Knowing more, children might choose to go to grandma's. Depends what all
the "more" might be. My children have all visited my mother this week. Kirby
hadn't seen her for about three years, but this week he chose to go. It wasn't
his preference, but he went against preference and inconvenienced himself
because it's her birthday and she's unlikely to have another one. I didn't make
him go. He left a LAN party early and came home to go with us.
<<> Military and prison do that to people.
> You'd stay if your choice was more jail or worse.<<Yes, but I would still be choosing. >>
Nobody signs up for the military hoping to end up in solitary confinement
facing a dishonorable discharge. And kids might agree to go to grandma's and
then want to bail. Sometimes that's possibile. Occasionally it's not.
<<These children are stating their
choice (not to go) and instead of it happening it is up to 3 adults. >>
There are six people involved and three are being discounted. Four counting
the mom's being discounted. Yes, that's a problem. But it can be better
prevented in the future with persuasive argument than with the addition of more
emotional blocking and blackmailing.
Sandra
J. Stauffer
<<What would you all do?>>
I can only answer what I did. I was working with the teenaged hs kids on a
play. We did one last year, had a ball. Pretty much unschooled it, as in
the kids did all the decisions about it, etc. It was a ball and a very good
performance. The parents loved the end result, hated every minute of their
kids making decisions. ANYWAY... Fast forward to this year, we have 2
practices and my kids are playing in the gym while we are in a classroom at
a local church. I hear afterward from my oldest that one of the moms was
mean to my 10yo, shaking her finger in his face and yelling at him for
playing with a volleyball in the gym. (He didn't know it was off limits.)
Zach never mentioned it to me. I'm thinking "ok one grouchy mom".
Next week, I get a call complaining that my kids were not following rules,
etc. I check with my oldest (almost 13) to make sure she knows what the
rules are up there. And she is nodding and following along until it gets to
"don't mess with the coke machine" and she rolls her eyes. I question and
she says that the coke machine was open and the little 4 year olds were
messing with it. Zach (10) was trying to get it to stay shut when a mom
came in and started yelling at him about the rules. He tried to explain and
she cut him off and then apparently went and complained about my kids. My
oldest said "She got mad because she didn't take the time to find out what
was going on."
So amid tears (because I was having so much fun) I quit the play. I
wouldn't be much of a mom if I let people be mean to my kids so I could have
fun.
Julie S.
I can only answer what I did. I was working with the teenaged hs kids on a
play. We did one last year, had a ball. Pretty much unschooled it, as in
the kids did all the decisions about it, etc. It was a ball and a very good
performance. The parents loved the end result, hated every minute of their
kids making decisions. ANYWAY... Fast forward to this year, we have 2
practices and my kids are playing in the gym while we are in a classroom at
a local church. I hear afterward from my oldest that one of the moms was
mean to my 10yo, shaking her finger in his face and yelling at him for
playing with a volleyball in the gym. (He didn't know it was off limits.)
Zach never mentioned it to me. I'm thinking "ok one grouchy mom".
Next week, I get a call complaining that my kids were not following rules,
etc. I check with my oldest (almost 13) to make sure she knows what the
rules are up there. And she is nodding and following along until it gets to
"don't mess with the coke machine" and she rolls her eyes. I question and
she says that the coke machine was open and the little 4 year olds were
messing with it. Zach (10) was trying to get it to stay shut when a mom
came in and started yelling at him about the rules. He tried to explain and
she cut him off and then apparently went and complained about my kids. My
oldest said "She got mad because she didn't take the time to find out what
was going on."
So amid tears (because I was having so much fun) I quit the play. I
wouldn't be much of a mom if I let people be mean to my kids so I could have
fun.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] need a little advice
>
> In a message dated 11/1/03 7:30:11 AM, ambdkf@... writes:
>
> << My point is that it is a much more positive and powerful
> position to be in to say I am choosing to stand in line at the DMV because
> I like to drive and not be breaking the laws of my country. If not move
to
> NYC. I have many friends there that don't have driver's license. >>
>
> I understand. I was trying to make the point that a blanket unqualified
> statement is likely to be untrue, and if speaking to one's husband about
something
> really important which will be emotionally charged for him, truth is
better
> than blanket fallacy.
>
> Husbands don't have to stay with their wives and children. Many choose
to.
> To tell one of those, who chooses to go to work even when he doesn't want
to,
> that adults never have to go where they don't want to might be a big
tactical
> error. He might not choose to remain in that conversation at that time.
>
> Knowing more, children might choose to go to grandma's. Depends what all
> the "more" might be. My children have all visited my mother this week.
Kirby
> hadn't seen her for about three years, but this week he chose to go. It
wasn't
> his preference, but he went against preference and inconvenienced himself
> because it's her birthday and she's unlikely to have another one. I
didn't make
> him go. He left a LAN party early and came home to go with us.
>
> <<> Military and prison do that to people.
> > You'd stay if your choice was more jail or worse.
>
> <<Yes, but I would still be choosing. >>
>
> Nobody signs up for the military hoping to end up in solitary confinement
> facing a dishonorable discharge. And kids might agree to go to grandma's
and
> then want to bail. Sometimes that's possibile. Occasionally it's not.
>
> <<These children are stating their
> choice (not to go) and instead of it happening it is up to 3 adults. >>
>
> There are six people involved and three are being discounted. Four
counting
> the mom's being discounted. Yes, that's a problem. But it can be better
> prevented in the future with persuasive argument than with the addition of
more
> emotional blocking and blackmailing.
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/1/03 9:55:15 AM, jnjstau@... writes:
<< So amid tears (because I was having so much fun) I quit the play. I
wouldn't be much of a mom if I let people be mean to my kids so I could have
fun.
If you talked to the finger-wagging mom (wagging your finger in her face as
you tell her it's scary, isn't it? isn't illegal; it's tacky, but I'd do it if
it were me) maybe you'd keep her finger out of other people's faces in the
future too. And you could tell coke-mom that your kids are NOT trained to hang
back and let other kids get in trouble, and that your son was trying to help
KEEP the peace/rules and that he is unaccustomed to being treated less than
fully human.
Oh heck, send me their e-mail addresses and I'll tell them to BE NICE, and
to call you and apologize, and ask you to come back and help with that play or
they'll risk... a second e-mail from ME. <bwg>
Sandra
<< So amid tears (because I was having so much fun) I quit the play. I
wouldn't be much of a mom if I let people be mean to my kids so I could have
fun.
>>Unfair, though! Those weren't really your only two choices.
If you talked to the finger-wagging mom (wagging your finger in her face as
you tell her it's scary, isn't it? isn't illegal; it's tacky, but I'd do it if
it were me) maybe you'd keep her finger out of other people's faces in the
future too. And you could tell coke-mom that your kids are NOT trained to hang
back and let other kids get in trouble, and that your son was trying to help
KEEP the peace/rules and that he is unaccustomed to being treated less than
fully human.
Oh heck, send me their e-mail addresses and I'll tell them to BE NICE, and
to call you and apologize, and ask you to come back and help with that play or
they'll risk... a second e-mail from ME. <bwg>
Sandra
badolbilz
SandraDodd@... wrote:
and at first she got all defensive and then after awhile she talked more
calmly, but she's still very upset. She continued to defend my sil as a
poor, overworked single parent and to defend my niece as the poor only
child of divorced parents. Don't get me wrong, I love my niece and do
feel sorry for her, but not enough for my children to suffer. I learned
also from my mil that my sil is very upset because my oldest, Aislinn,
7, is rude to her. I've talked to Aislinn about that and explained that
she can choose to behave as she wishes to all people but she has to
realize that there will always be consequences and sometimes they won't
be pleasant. So part of all this could be consequences coming back to
haunt her.
News Flash! I just left this e-mail hanging here and had a long talk
with the girls and we've figured out a way that they can go to Nani's
and hardly ever, dare I say never, get into trouble for anything! I
told them that whenever there was an upset, an arguement, or whatever
between them and their cousin or even each other- they should run to
Nani and say in a very sweet voice, "Nani, we need YOUR help. We want
everyone to be happy. What should we do?" This way Nani gets to feel
important, the problem will get somewhat solved, and nobody can ever say
that the girls were bad. LOL. It might made them seem like
goody-two-shoes, but it will solve their problem in an honest way
without accusations or blame being placed on anyone. I would like them
to learn how to solve these confrontations in a fair and calm way, so
maybe this will help with that. If not, at least it will take the heat
of them for a little while. In the last couple hours, we've been
practicing it with problems they've been having with each other, and
they are solving them on there own in ways that will make 'everyone
happy.' I even called my mil and told her this and she's thrilled and
says she'll help Alexis learn how to do this, too.
AND, dh called this morning from work to apologize for his attitude last
night. That's a HUGE step for him because he is a lot like his mom, who
never want to admits she's wrong. I really didn't want to call off the
date. I never really get to see him anymore and he's going through a
really hard time in his life. Sandra's right, I think husbands,
especially mine, need to treated gently. And I think he feels a little
jealous that I'm so focused on the kids. I ask him about what's going
on at work, but we have 4 little kids, and he never gets more than 2
sentences out before we're interupted and I have to leave to go help
someone. He's under so much stress that I've been worried a lot about
his health because of it and he NEEDS a night out to see a movie or
something.
Anyway, I feel so much better. I strongly feel that there's almost
always a solution if you really work at it. And I think that this will
work. And the girls feel good about it too. Nani feels good about it.
Things look pretty good all around. Thank you again for all your help.
Heidi
>Husbands don't have to stay with their wives and children. Many choose to.Thank you EVERYONE for your advice. I did talk to my mil this morning
>To tell one of those, who chooses to go to work even when he doesn't want to,
>that adults never have to go where they don't want to might be a big tactical
>error. He might not choose to remain in that conversation at that time.
>
>Knowing more, children might choose to go to grandma's. Depends what all
>the "more" might be. My children have all visited my mother this week. Kirby
>hadn't seen her for about three years, but this week he chose to go. It wasn't
>his preference, but he went against preference and inconvenienced himself
>because it's her birthday and she's unlikely to have another one. I didn't make
>him go. He left a LAN party early and came home to go with us.
>
>There are six people involved and three are being discounted. Four counting
>the mom's being discounted. Yes, that's a problem. But it can be better
>prevented in the future with persuasive argument than with the addition of more
>emotional blocking and blackmailing.
>
>Sandra
>
>
>
>
and at first she got all defensive and then after awhile she talked more
calmly, but she's still very upset. She continued to defend my sil as a
poor, overworked single parent and to defend my niece as the poor only
child of divorced parents. Don't get me wrong, I love my niece and do
feel sorry for her, but not enough for my children to suffer. I learned
also from my mil that my sil is very upset because my oldest, Aislinn,
7, is rude to her. I've talked to Aislinn about that and explained that
she can choose to behave as she wishes to all people but she has to
realize that there will always be consequences and sometimes they won't
be pleasant. So part of all this could be consequences coming back to
haunt her.
News Flash! I just left this e-mail hanging here and had a long talk
with the girls and we've figured out a way that they can go to Nani's
and hardly ever, dare I say never, get into trouble for anything! I
told them that whenever there was an upset, an arguement, or whatever
between them and their cousin or even each other- they should run to
Nani and say in a very sweet voice, "Nani, we need YOUR help. We want
everyone to be happy. What should we do?" This way Nani gets to feel
important, the problem will get somewhat solved, and nobody can ever say
that the girls were bad. LOL. It might made them seem like
goody-two-shoes, but it will solve their problem in an honest way
without accusations or blame being placed on anyone. I would like them
to learn how to solve these confrontations in a fair and calm way, so
maybe this will help with that. If not, at least it will take the heat
of them for a little while. In the last couple hours, we've been
practicing it with problems they've been having with each other, and
they are solving them on there own in ways that will make 'everyone
happy.' I even called my mil and told her this and she's thrilled and
says she'll help Alexis learn how to do this, too.
AND, dh called this morning from work to apologize for his attitude last
night. That's a HUGE step for him because he is a lot like his mom, who
never want to admits she's wrong. I really didn't want to call off the
date. I never really get to see him anymore and he's going through a
really hard time in his life. Sandra's right, I think husbands,
especially mine, need to treated gently. And I think he feels a little
jealous that I'm so focused on the kids. I ask him about what's going
on at work, but we have 4 little kids, and he never gets more than 2
sentences out before we're interupted and I have to leave to go help
someone. He's under so much stress that I've been worried a lot about
his health because of it and he NEEDS a night out to see a movie or
something.
Anyway, I feel so much better. I strongly feel that there's almost
always a solution if you really work at it. And I think that this will
work. And the girls feel good about it too. Nani feels good about it.
Things look pretty good all around. Thank you again for all your help.
Heidi
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/31/03 9:08:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ynxn96@... writes:
If it were me, and this is hard because I only know what you have said
but...., I would take my girls to my mothers if that is where they wanted to go then
I would take the time to talk with my husband. I would have a hard time
being joyful if my dh and I were not on the same page regarding the children.
Might be a good time to talk.
Just my thoughts,
Pam G
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ynxn96@... writes:
> Anyway, what would you all do? I think I'll have to have a talk with myHi Heidi,
> mil, but she's such a now-it-all and NEVER admits she might be wrong.
> Should I bother to talk to her? HELP!
>
>
If it were me, and this is hard because I only know what you have said
but...., I would take my girls to my mothers if that is where they wanted to go then
I would take the time to talk with my husband. I would have a hard time
being joyful if my dh and I were not on the same page regarding the children.
Might be a good time to talk.
Just my thoughts,
Pam G
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
J. Stauffer
<<and I'll tell them BE NICE>>
Perhaps they would listen to you <grin>. I tried over and over for several
years to work with these people (In Your Face Christian School-At-Homers).
Finally gave up on them. Your right it wasn't my only choice but I was too
tired of fighting with them over everything.
"You can't let kids make these decisions. What if they wanted to do the
scene nude?!?!?" (parents wanting me to force the kids to omit the word
"ass" from Shakespeare
"You obviously don't have the guts to make a decision." (when the kids
decisions didn't match this particular parent's on certain limits for the
group)
"Why are we even sending our kids to you anyway?" (when I told a parent that
I wasn't interested in molding their child, only wanted to have fun doing
Shakespeare)
It just got very old and the meanness to MY kids was the last straw. Found
a group of mostly unschoolers, a UU church and I'm much happier.
Julie S.
Perhaps they would listen to you <grin>. I tried over and over for several
years to work with these people (In Your Face Christian School-At-Homers).
Finally gave up on them. Your right it wasn't my only choice but I was too
tired of fighting with them over everything.
"You can't let kids make these decisions. What if they wanted to do the
scene nude?!?!?" (parents wanting me to force the kids to omit the word
"ass" from Shakespeare
"You obviously don't have the guts to make a decision." (when the kids
decisions didn't match this particular parent's on certain limits for the
group)
"Why are we even sending our kids to you anyway?" (when I told a parent that
I wasn't interested in molding their child, only wanted to have fun doing
Shakespeare)
It just got very old and the meanness to MY kids was the last straw. Found
a group of mostly unschoolers, a UU church and I'm much happier.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 11:36 AM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] need a little advice
>
> In a message dated 11/1/03 9:55:15 AM, jnjstau@... writes:
>
> << So amid tears (because I was having so much fun) I quit the play. I
>
> wouldn't be much of a mom if I let people be mean to my kids so I could
have
>
> fun.
>
> >>
>
> Unfair, though! Those weren't really your only two choices.
>
> If you talked to the finger-wagging mom (wagging your finger in her face
as
> you tell her it's scary, isn't it? isn't illegal; it's tacky, but I'd do
it if
> it were me) maybe you'd keep her finger out of other people's faces in the
> future too. And you could tell coke-mom that your kids are NOT trained
to hang
> back and let other kids get in trouble, and that your son was trying to
help
> KEEP the peace/rules and that he is unaccustomed to being treated less
than
> fully human.
>
> Oh heck, send me their e-mail addresses and I'll tell them to BE NICE,
and
> to call you and apologize, and ask you to come back and help with that
play or
> they'll risk... a second e-mail from ME. <bwg>
>
> Sandra
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/1/03 9:09:06 PM, jnjstau@... writes:
<< "You can't let kids make these decisions. What if they wanted to do the
scene nude?!?!?" (parents wanting me to force the kids to omit the word
"ass" from Shakespeare >>
<< "You can't let kids make these decisions. What if they wanted to do the
scene nude?!?!?" (parents wanting me to force the kids to omit the word
"ass" from Shakespeare >>
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/1/03 9:09:06 PM, jnjstau@... writes:
<< "You can't let kids make these decisions. What if they wanted to do the
scene nude?!?!?" (parents wanting me to force the kids to omit the word
"ass" from Shakespeare >>
I LAUGHED! I laughed so hard I hit the keyboard and hit send (sorry about
that other blank).
STUPID! How stupid can they be and still be smart enough to homeschool and
operate a motor vehicle, and maybe a can opener?
<<"Why are we even sending our kids to you anyway?" (when I told a parent that
I wasn't interested in molding their child, only wanted to have fun doing
Shakespeare)
Well on a related note, a friend wants to borrow our video of the South Park
movie, but I can only find the tape and not the box. That's okay, because I
can make a new tape box (I live by a Hollywood video and they put some cool
stuff out sometimes) so I went to google to find some sites with art or cast
listing or blurb to swipe, print, slip into the plastic sleeve, all cool-like.
One of the first ones I found was a fundy Christian criticism of the movie.
They COUNTED how many words were used how. They called (the cartoon) Saddam
Hussein's (fake cartoon) penis "disembodied." WHAT!? I don't think that word
means what they think it means. But anyway, look at this line:
<<These are but a very few of the examples of ignominy in this sinematic
cyanide.>>
I like it. It's deep. (no really)
But I wonder about that misspelling of "cinematic." Judging by the rest of
the "review" I don't think it's humor or a pun. Is it just someone who
doesn't know the word "cinema"? Is he so used to writing about "sin" that
everything becomes sin-something? Is he suggesting the movie creates an automatic
flood of sin? Would he think porn was SINamatography? Would a robot of Satan
be a Sinematron?
I can't take it seriously, but I might print it out to slip in the cover of
the video box.
http://www.capalert.com/capreports/southpark.htm
It's the second site google brings up for "South Park Movie."
Yes it's an obnoxious offensive movie, but also a great parody of musicals
and they MEANT it to be funny that Satan was a nicer guy than Hussein, and it
wasn't intended to be taken as a literal recommendation of Satan. He took
everything literally and at face value.
I like this line too:
". . . and repeated questions about a female private organ were but a very
few of the vulgar expressions used by the kids."
Clitoris.
The word was "clitoris." Is that really "an organ"? How many private
organs do they think females have? "Clitoris" is not a vulgar expression. Ass,
as used by Shakespeare, is vulgar, especially the way Michael Keaton
repeatedly repeats the word in the repetitious scene in Much Ado about Nothing, in
which he tells anyone who will listen that the guy called him an ass. Ass as it's
used in the Bible when Jesus rode one, and Mary rode one, that's vulgar,
literally, because it's the everyday speech of normal people, unlike "clitoris"
which is the technical foreign word used to be lofty and removed.
Oh well.
Sandra
<< "You can't let kids make these decisions. What if they wanted to do the
scene nude?!?!?" (parents wanting me to force the kids to omit the word
"ass" from Shakespeare >>
I LAUGHED! I laughed so hard I hit the keyboard and hit send (sorry about
that other blank).
STUPID! How stupid can they be and still be smart enough to homeschool and
operate a motor vehicle, and maybe a can opener?
<<"Why are we even sending our kids to you anyway?" (when I told a parent that
I wasn't interested in molding their child, only wanted to have fun doing
Shakespeare)
>>Oh gross.
Well on a related note, a friend wants to borrow our video of the South Park
movie, but I can only find the tape and not the box. That's okay, because I
can make a new tape box (I live by a Hollywood video and they put some cool
stuff out sometimes) so I went to google to find some sites with art or cast
listing or blurb to swipe, print, slip into the plastic sleeve, all cool-like.
One of the first ones I found was a fundy Christian criticism of the movie.
They COUNTED how many words were used how. They called (the cartoon) Saddam
Hussein's (fake cartoon) penis "disembodied." WHAT!? I don't think that word
means what they think it means. But anyway, look at this line:
<<These are but a very few of the examples of ignominy in this sinematic
cyanide.>>
I like it. It's deep. (no really)
But I wonder about that misspelling of "cinematic." Judging by the rest of
the "review" I don't think it's humor or a pun. Is it just someone who
doesn't know the word "cinema"? Is he so used to writing about "sin" that
everything becomes sin-something? Is he suggesting the movie creates an automatic
flood of sin? Would he think porn was SINamatography? Would a robot of Satan
be a Sinematron?
I can't take it seriously, but I might print it out to slip in the cover of
the video box.
http://www.capalert.com/capreports/southpark.htm
It's the second site google brings up for "South Park Movie."
Yes it's an obnoxious offensive movie, but also a great parody of musicals
and they MEANT it to be funny that Satan was a nicer guy than Hussein, and it
wasn't intended to be taken as a literal recommendation of Satan. He took
everything literally and at face value.
I like this line too:
". . . and repeated questions about a female private organ were but a very
few of the vulgar expressions used by the kids."
Clitoris.
The word was "clitoris." Is that really "an organ"? How many private
organs do they think females have? "Clitoris" is not a vulgar expression. Ass,
as used by Shakespeare, is vulgar, especially the way Michael Keaton
repeatedly repeats the word in the repetitious scene in Much Ado about Nothing, in
which he tells anyone who will listen that the guy called him an ass. Ass as it's
used in the Bible when Jesus rode one, and Mary rode one, that's vulgar,
literally, because it's the everyday speech of normal people, unlike "clitoris"
which is the technical foreign word used to be lofty and removed.
Oh well.
Sandra
nellebelle
There was a flap when our local children's theater left "ass" in Peter Pan, but it wasn't just from homeschoolers. Some other parents were bothered too.
Mary Ellen
Mary Ellen
----- Original Message -----(parents wanting me to force the kids to omit the word
"ass" from Shakespeare >>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nancy Wooton
on 11/1/03 8:27 PM, SandraDodd@... at SandraDodd@... wrote:
since it was fresh. I laughed hardest at:
"Body parts dripping with blood were ripped from a child by a surgeon who
expressed shallow concern."
George Clooney replaced Kenny's heart with a microwaved BAKED POTATO. He
did seem concerned for whoever meant to have the potato for lunch.
Oh well. Blame Canada.
Nancy
>That is SO FUNNY! Having just watched said film last week made it funnier,
> In a message dated 11/1/03 9:09:06 PM, jnjstau@... writes:
>
> << "You can't let kids make these decisions. What if they wanted to do the
>
> scene nude?!?!?" (parents wanting me to force the kids to omit the word
>
> "ass" from Shakespeare >>
>
> I LAUGHED! I laughed so hard I hit the keyboard and hit send (sorry about
> that other blank).
>
> STUPID! How stupid can they be and still be smart enough to homeschool and
> operate a motor vehicle, and maybe a can opener?
>
> <<"Why are we even sending our kids to you anyway?" (when I told a parent that
>
> I wasn't interested in molding their child, only wanted to have fun doing
>
> Shakespeare)
>
>>>
>
> Oh gross.
>
> Well on a related note, a friend wants to borrow our video of the South Park
> movie, but I can only find the tape and not the box. That's okay, because I
> can make a new tape box (I live by a Hollywood video and they put some cool
> stuff out sometimes) so I went to google to find some sites with art or cast
> listing or blurb to swipe, print, slip into the plastic sleeve, all cool-like.
>
> One of the first ones I found was a fundy Christian criticism of the movie.
> They COUNTED how many words were used how. They called (the cartoon) Saddam
> Hussein's (fake cartoon) penis "disembodied." WHAT!? I don't think that word
> means what they think it means. But anyway, look at this line:
>
> <<These are but a very few of the examples of ignominy in this sinematic
> cyanide.>>
>
> I like it. It's deep. (no really)
> But I wonder about that misspelling of "cinematic." Judging by the rest of
> the "review" I don't think it's humor or a pun. Is it just someone who
> doesn't know the word "cinema"? Is he so used to writing about "sin" that
> everything becomes sin-something? Is he suggesting the movie creates an
> automatic
> flood of sin? Would he think porn was SINamatography? Would a robot of
> Satan
> be a Sinematron?
>
> I can't take it seriously, but I might print it out to slip in the cover of
> the video box.
>
> http://www.capalert.com/capreports/southpark.htm
>
> It's the second site google brings up for "South Park Movie."
>
> Yes it's an obnoxious offensive movie, but also a great parody of musicals
> and they MEANT it to be funny that Satan was a nicer guy than Hussein, and it
> wasn't intended to be taken as a literal recommendation of Satan. He took
> everything literally and at face value.
>
> I like this line too:
>
> ". . . and repeated questions about a female private organ were but a very
> few of the vulgar expressions used by the kids."
>
> Clitoris.
> The word was "clitoris." Is that really "an organ"? How many private
> organs do they think females have? "Clitoris" is not a vulgar expression.
> Ass,
> as used by Shakespeare, is vulgar, especially the way Michael Keaton
> repeatedly repeats the word in the repetitious scene in Much Ado about
> Nothing, in
> which he tells anyone who will listen that the guy called him an ass. Ass as
> it's
> used in the Bible when Jesus rode one, and Mary rode one, that's vulgar,
> literally, because it's the everyday speech of normal people, unlike
> "clitoris"
> which is the technical foreign word used to be lofty and removed.
>
> Oh well.
>
> Sandra
>
since it was fresh. I laughed hardest at:
"Body parts dripping with blood were ripped from a child by a surgeon who
expressed shallow concern."
George Clooney replaced Kenny's heart with a microwaved BAKED POTATO. He
did seem concerned for whoever meant to have the potato for lunch.
Oh well. Blame Canada.
Nancy
badolbilz
>In a message dated 11/1/03 9:09:06 PM, jnjstau@... writes:This is REALLY funny.
>
><< "You can't let kids make these decisions. What if they wanted to do the
>
>scene nude?!?!?" (parents wanting me to force the kids to omit the word
>
>"ass" from Shakespeare >>
>
>
>
With all the discussions going on with my girls and my mil, I found out
that my niece got in trouble at day-care for getting the others kids to
stuff pillows in their shirts and pretend they were pregnant. Turns out
this really upset a lot of the kids' parents. Alexis learned this from
my girls who will even go grocery shopping with me in their pregnant
state. I told the girls that if these parents don't want their kids to
learn stuff, they should keep their kids at home! Good grief! A
pregnant belly....were do those babies come from anyway??? Perhaps we
should advocate the stork or cabbage leaf method to keep everyone happy.
Dh and I went on our date. We saw School of Rock...a pretty good
unschooling movie, I think. All the girls chose not to spend the night
at Nani's which made their cousin cry, but I just patted her on the head
and said, "Well, sometimes you just want you're mommy, too."
Unfortunately, she's never given the choice to go home with her mommy.
Sandra, I can imagine how it must feel to think Holly might go to
school. Yuck. But I agree with everyone that she probably just wants a
taste and then she'll let it go, if it ever even comes to that.
Fetteroll
on 11/1/03 11:27 PM, SandraDodd@... at SandraDodd@... wrote:
Oh, no, it'd be the *body* that was dismembered!
Joyce
> They called (the cartoon) SaddamDismembered?
> Hussein's (fake cartoon) penis "disembodied." WHAT!? I don't think that word
> means what they think it means.
Oh, no, it'd be the *body* that was dismembered!
Joyce
Nancy Wooton
on 11/2/03 1:01 AM, Fetteroll at fetteroll@... wrote:
Nancy
>> They called (the cartoon) SaddamWell, the member *was* dis - er, connected?
>> Hussein's (fake cartoon) penis "disembodied." WHAT!? I don't think that
>> word
>> means what they think it means.
>
> Dismembered?
>
> Oh, no, it'd be the *body* that was dismembered!
Nancy
analisa_r
There is NO SUCH THING! She watches the children on your terms or
she isn't allowed to watch them at all.
JMHO,
Analisa in TX
Meg 12/12/01
Patrick & Catherine EDD 1/26/04
http://pages.ivillage.com/analisa_roche
she isn't allowed to watch them at all.
JMHO,
Analisa in TX
Meg 12/12/01
Patrick & Catherine EDD 1/26/04
http://pages.ivillage.com/analisa_roche
--- In [email protected], badolbilz <ynxn96@f...> wrote:
> Anyone know how to convince a mil to
> change?
aicitticia
> I like this line too:but a very
>
> ". . . and repeated questions about a female private organ were
> few of the vulgar expressions used by the kids."Or maybe one of the few "vulvar" expressions used by the kids. I
>
couldn't resist ;)
This gave me a good laugh.
Ticia
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/2/03 1:40:39 PM, ticiamama@... writes:
<< Or maybe one of the few "vulvar" expressions used by the kids. I
couldn't resist ;) >>
The only vulvar expression! Good one!
People who can't tell a cartoon from real surgery can easily believe a REAL
Satan could be unleashed in someone's soul by his watching a movie suggesting
that some people care more about language useage than about life.
Sandra
<< Or maybe one of the few "vulvar" expressions used by the kids. I
couldn't resist ;) >>
The only vulvar expression! Good one!
People who can't tell a cartoon from real surgery can easily believe a REAL
Satan could be unleashed in someone's soul by his watching a movie suggesting
that some people care more about language useage than about life.
Sandra