super teachers
Alyce
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 02:13:38 -0400
From: "Kate ODonovan" <kateod@...>
Subject: Re: "super teachers"
<<...She told me that she likes working in the city because the majority
of the students' parents were non-english speaking and didn't really
know their children's rights in school, i.e. if one of the children
needed extra support or services and how to go about obtaining those
services. She said that she does not want to have to deal with parents
such as myself who know their children's rights and would attend iep
meetings, etc...>
<<...What is wrong with people?
Kate >>
I overheard something the other day that just confused and upset me a
bit, though it's not pertinent to me personally. Actually I was
standing right there, not eavesdropping, but not participating either,
just there... - all the neighbors including me tend to be outside quite
a bit in a common area... I live in a neighborhood lousy with public
school teachers - many of my neighbors teach at the local elementary
school which I hear is supposed to be a great school. Anyway, two
public school teachers - one lives right on top of me and the other next
door to us (she has a son who my boy plays with pretty regularly...)
Anyway, the gal (thus far childless, young, married) was saying to the
"mom" teacher "...other people who are stuck in jobs they hate have to
hate them year round. At least I can rest easy in the knowledge that
this is temporary and come summer these horrible kids will be gone and I
may get a better group next year after my summer off." I'm not sure
that I have any more to say than that. I'm not sure what to make of it.
Guess I'm dumb-founded - and glad my son isn't in her class - this
summer before school she kept telling me she only had 18 kids in her
second grade class coming up and I should seriously put him in there...
Now she could be hating him as part of the group, too, eh? ... Yes,
still dumb-founded... Or I'd comment. Um........
~Alyce
From: "Kate ODonovan" <kateod@...>
Subject: Re: "super teachers"
<<...She told me that she likes working in the city because the majority
of the students' parents were non-english speaking and didn't really
know their children's rights in school, i.e. if one of the children
needed extra support or services and how to go about obtaining those
services. She said that she does not want to have to deal with parents
such as myself who know their children's rights and would attend iep
meetings, etc...>
<<...What is wrong with people?
Kate >>
I overheard something the other day that just confused and upset me a
bit, though it's not pertinent to me personally. Actually I was
standing right there, not eavesdropping, but not participating either,
just there... - all the neighbors including me tend to be outside quite
a bit in a common area... I live in a neighborhood lousy with public
school teachers - many of my neighbors teach at the local elementary
school which I hear is supposed to be a great school. Anyway, two
public school teachers - one lives right on top of me and the other next
door to us (she has a son who my boy plays with pretty regularly...)
Anyway, the gal (thus far childless, young, married) was saying to the
"mom" teacher "...other people who are stuck in jobs they hate have to
hate them year round. At least I can rest easy in the knowledge that
this is temporary and come summer these horrible kids will be gone and I
may get a better group next year after my summer off." I'm not sure
that I have any more to say than that. I'm not sure what to make of it.
Guess I'm dumb-founded - and glad my son isn't in her class - this
summer before school she kept telling me she only had 18 kids in her
second grade class coming up and I should seriously put him in there...
Now she could be hating him as part of the group, too, eh? ... Yes,
still dumb-founded... Or I'd comment. Um........
~Alyce
Julie
Alyce wrote:
<<I overheard something the other day that just confused and upset me a
bit, though it's not pertinent to me personally. Actually I was
standing right there, not eavesdropping, but not participating either,
just there... - all the neighbors including me tend to be outside quite
a bit in a common area... I live in a neighborhood lousy with public
school teachers - many of my neighbors teach at the local elementary
school which I hear is supposed to be a great school. Anyway, two
public school teachers - one lives right on top of me and the other next
door to us (she has a son who my boy plays with pretty regularly...)
Anyway, the gal (thus far childless, young, married) was saying to the
"mom" teacher "...other people who are stuck in jobs they hate have to
hate them year round. At least I can rest easy in the knowledge that
this is temporary and come summer these horrible kids will be gone and I
may get a better group next year after my summer off." I'm not sure
that I have any more to say than that. I'm not sure what to make of it.
Guess I'm dumb-founded - and glad my son isn't in her class - this
summer before school she kept telling me she only had 18 kids in her
second grade class coming up and I should seriously put him in there...
Now she could be hating him as part of the group, too, eh? ... Yes,
still dumb-founded... Or I'd comment. Um........>>
Hi, Alyce. I feel her pain. The teacher's I mean. It's important to remember that everyone in a school system is confined and institutionalized, and we all suffer negative effects from it. I say this as a former teacher. No, I never hated the kids in my class, but I was absolutely torn up inside about the way the school environment was sucking the life, independence, and individuality right out of them.
I think a lot of people in schools can see this to some degree, without even knowing what they're seeing, and without knowing what to do about it. Some of them blame the kids for what's happening (maybe the teacher in your example), some of them blame the school administration, some of them blame the parents, and some of them blame themselves. That's what I did. I blamed myself for the negative effects of their imprisonment, so I kept searching for the perfect teaching technique, the perfect approach that would make it all better. When I realized what the real problem was--basically an across-the-board, institutionalized lack of respect for kids, I had to leave.
So I don't think she hates all kids. She's just caught up in a tremendously frustrating and damaging system, one that hurts kids and teachers alike. And when she's with a fellow teacher, she's just releasing all her frustration.
Still healing,
Julie from NY
(Signing this way because I just realized I'm the second Julie on the list. :) Sorry for previous confusion!)
<<I overheard something the other day that just confused and upset me a
bit, though it's not pertinent to me personally. Actually I was
standing right there, not eavesdropping, but not participating either,
just there... - all the neighbors including me tend to be outside quite
a bit in a common area... I live in a neighborhood lousy with public
school teachers - many of my neighbors teach at the local elementary
school which I hear is supposed to be a great school. Anyway, two
public school teachers - one lives right on top of me and the other next
door to us (she has a son who my boy plays with pretty regularly...)
Anyway, the gal (thus far childless, young, married) was saying to the
"mom" teacher "...other people who are stuck in jobs they hate have to
hate them year round. At least I can rest easy in the knowledge that
this is temporary and come summer these horrible kids will be gone and I
may get a better group next year after my summer off." I'm not sure
that I have any more to say than that. I'm not sure what to make of it.
Guess I'm dumb-founded - and glad my son isn't in her class - this
summer before school she kept telling me she only had 18 kids in her
second grade class coming up and I should seriously put him in there...
Now she could be hating him as part of the group, too, eh? ... Yes,
still dumb-founded... Or I'd comment. Um........>>
Hi, Alyce. I feel her pain. The teacher's I mean. It's important to remember that everyone in a school system is confined and institutionalized, and we all suffer negative effects from it. I say this as a former teacher. No, I never hated the kids in my class, but I was absolutely torn up inside about the way the school environment was sucking the life, independence, and individuality right out of them.
I think a lot of people in schools can see this to some degree, without even knowing what they're seeing, and without knowing what to do about it. Some of them blame the kids for what's happening (maybe the teacher in your example), some of them blame the school administration, some of them blame the parents, and some of them blame themselves. That's what I did. I blamed myself for the negative effects of their imprisonment, so I kept searching for the perfect teaching technique, the perfect approach that would make it all better. When I realized what the real problem was--basically an across-the-board, institutionalized lack of respect for kids, I had to leave.
So I don't think she hates all kids. She's just caught up in a tremendously frustrating and damaging system, one that hurts kids and teachers alike. And when she's with a fellow teacher, she's just releasing all her frustration.
Still healing,
Julie from NY
(Signing this way because I just realized I'm the second Julie on the list. :) Sorry for previous confusion!)
----- Original Message -----
From: Alyce
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 11:44 AM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] super teachers
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 02:13:38 -0400
From: "Kate ODonovan" <kateod@...>
Subject: Re: "super teachers"
<<...She told me that she likes working in the city because the majority
of the students' parents were non-english speaking and didn't really
know their children's rights in school, i.e. if one of the children
needed extra support or services and how to go about obtaining those
services. She said that she does not want to have to deal with parents
such as myself who know their children's rights and would attend iep
meetings, etc...>
<<...What is wrong with people?
Kate >>
I overheard something the other day that just confused and upset me a
bit, though it's not pertinent to me personally. Actually I was
standing right there, not eavesdropping, but not participating either,
just there... - all the neighbors including me tend to be outside quite
a bit in a common area... I live in a neighborhood lousy with public
school teachers - many of my neighbors teach at the local elementary
school which I hear is supposed to be a great school. Anyway, two
public school teachers - one lives right on top of me and the other next
door to us (she has a son who my boy plays with pretty regularly...)
Anyway, the gal (thus far childless, young, married) was saying to the
"mom" teacher "...other people who are stuck in jobs they hate have to
hate them year round. At least I can rest easy in the knowledge that
this is temporary and come summer these horrible kids will be gone and I
may get a better group next year after my summer off." I'm not sure
that I have any more to say than that. I'm not sure what to make of it.
Guess I'm dumb-founded - and glad my son isn't in her class - this
summer before school she kept telling me she only had 18 kids in her
second grade class coming up and I should seriously put him in there...
Now she could be hating him as part of the group, too, eh? ... Yes,
still dumb-founded... Or I'd comment. Um........
~Alyce
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Alyce
--- In [email protected], "Julie" <jlist@r...> wrote:
and institutionalized, and we all suffer negative effects from it.
I say this as a former teacher. No, I never hated the kids in my
class, but I was absolutely torn up inside about the way the school
environment was sucking the life, independence, and individuality
right out of them...
</snip>
No, I don't get the impression she hates all kids. :) It seemed
sad though that she felt this way - sad for her, sad for the kids.
Once upon a time I wanted to be a teacher. I realized before
heading that direction how tied my hands would be in so many ways as
pertained to operating in the classroom. I figured why go to 4
years of college, etc, just to be fired my first week? :) I don't
envy teachers one iota. I wish there was an easy solution for all
of it.
~Alyce
> Hi, Alyce. I feel her pain. The teacher's I mean. It'simportant to remember that everyone in a school system is confined
and institutionalized, and we all suffer negative effects from it.
I say this as a former teacher. No, I never hated the kids in my
class, but I was absolutely torn up inside about the way the school
environment was sucking the life, independence, and individuality
right out of them...
</snip>
> Still healing,Hi Julie,
> Julie from NY
No, I don't get the impression she hates all kids. :) It seemed
sad though that she felt this way - sad for her, sad for the kids.
Once upon a time I wanted to be a teacher. I realized before
heading that direction how tied my hands would be in so many ways as
pertained to operating in the classroom. I figured why go to 4
years of college, etc, just to be fired my first week? :) I don't
envy teachers one iota. I wish there was an easy solution for all
of it.
~Alyce
Norma
--- In [email protected], "Julie" <jlist@r...> wrote:
<>So I don't think she hates all kids. She's just caught up in a
tremendously frustrating and damaging system, one that hurts kids and
teachers alike. And when she's with a fellow teacher, she's just
releasing all her frustration.<>
Julie von NY:
I will second what Julie has said. I don't think that most teachers
get into teaching intending to hurt children. Most, like my sister,
teach because they really want to help children. My sister says that
she has stayed in teaching, while I left long ago, because some kids
will never have the choice to homeschool and they are the ones who
need someone like her to advocate for them, to intervene when the
system rides them too hard, crushes their spirits mercilessly. Each
teacher has his or her own coping mechanism. But the one that works
best is the one I chose, and Julie chose (if I read your post right),
to walk away, to get out before the system eats us up and spits us
out, too. No teachers retirement fund is worth it.
Now I wander in as a substitute teacher, quite tangentially, very
much on the fringe of that institutionalized reality. I observe, and
I am often shocked by what I observe. But I get to go home to my
self-determined learner, to the comfort of our own learning
environment. The other teachers, often stuck there out of what they
perceive as economic necessity, do not choose to exercise that
option.
Norma