do unschoolers get good jobs?
Trisha Sides
Hi everyone,
I have gotten several comments on my blog from a girl who is SURE
that Gary won't be able to get a good job if he doesn't go to school.
Does anyone have any info or links about unschoolers who went to
college or got a really good job? I know it works, but I'd like to
give her some examples.
Thanks
Trisha
http://radicalmama.motime.com/
I have gotten several comments on my blog from a girl who is SURE
that Gary won't be able to get a good job if he doesn't go to school.
Does anyone have any info or links about unschoolers who went to
college or got a really good job? I know it works, but I'd like to
give her some examples.
Thanks
Trisha
http://radicalmama.motime.com/
Tia Leschke
>Maybe ask her about the number of high school grads (college grads too) who
> I have gotten several comments on my blog from a girl who is SURE
>that Gary won't be able to get a good job if he doesn't go to school.
>Does anyone have any info or links about unschoolers who went to
>college or got a really good job? I know it works, but I'd like to
>give her some examples.
are flipping burgers for a living or working at Walmart.
<g>
Unschoolers:
I know one man who earns huge amounts of money with his art. He works in a
combination of native traditions and contemporary. He's also well on his
way to a career as an opera singer. His older sister is even farther along
the path as an opera singer, as well as teaching voice.
Another man is working in computer science, having completed his BS and
Masters in math and computer science.
Another man is playing violin in early music ensembles, having also been a
soloist with a number of symphony orchestras.
Another man is currently in art school, and I know of several more at
various stages of their university careers.
One has his own programming and website business. His brother is involved
in home renovations.
One young woman is working towards owning her own dance studio, while
currently teaching for other studios.
Another has just finished her first year of university studying
architecture, getting straight A's.
All three young men in one family are at university now.
Another young man is making a career for himself playing harp. His brother
is doing the same playing percussion.
These are all people I know or whose parents I know. I'm sure there are a
bunch more, but I can't think of any right now.
Tia
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/17/03 10:17:36 PM, leschke@... writes:
<< > I have gotten several comments on my blog from a girl who is SURE
Several have done some college. Some started at 14 or 15.
My son Kirby has held the same job for three years and two months.
I know adults who've never held a job that long at a stretch.
Kirby was offered the job because when he was thirteen he volunteered at the
store sometimes. They would have hired him sooner, but they needed to wait
for him to turn fourteen.
Our friend Brett just turned eighteen. He's a volunteer fire fighter being
put through an EMT training session. They had to wait until he turned
eighteen. He also works full time as a tech for a mobile phone company. Before that
he worked for a landscaping company and made enough to buy a truck.
Sadie has done two years of college. She's eighteen and is taking this year
off. She's living in Santa Fe, studying karate intently, and working
construction.
Guin is joining the National Guard soon. She worked at McDonald's in
Moriarty until she could afford to move into Albuquerque and get an apartment. She's
working at Walmart AND at Red Lobster. Not a great job? She's just turned
seventeen. She'll get some college tuition assistance from the national guard
deal. It's pretty impressive for a seventeen year old.
Chris has worked at REI since he was seventeen or so. He's 22 now, so has
had the same good job for five years. No college, but he's a serious bicyclist
and can better afford his sport/hobby from working at a sports store.
That's our local group currently.
Sandra
<< > I have gotten several comments on my blog from a girl who is SURE
>that Gary won't be able to get a good job if he doesn't go to school.The unschoolers I know are not wholly grown, still teens.
>Does anyone have any info or links about unschoolers who went to
>college or got a really good job? I >>
Several have done some college. Some started at 14 or 15.
My son Kirby has held the same job for three years and two months.
I know adults who've never held a job that long at a stretch.
Kirby was offered the job because when he was thirteen he volunteered at the
store sometimes. They would have hired him sooner, but they needed to wait
for him to turn fourteen.
Our friend Brett just turned eighteen. He's a volunteer fire fighter being
put through an EMT training session. They had to wait until he turned
eighteen. He also works full time as a tech for a mobile phone company. Before that
he worked for a landscaping company and made enough to buy a truck.
Sadie has done two years of college. She's eighteen and is taking this year
off. She's living in Santa Fe, studying karate intently, and working
construction.
Guin is joining the National Guard soon. She worked at McDonald's in
Moriarty until she could afford to move into Albuquerque and get an apartment. She's
working at Walmart AND at Red Lobster. Not a great job? She's just turned
seventeen. She'll get some college tuition assistance from the national guard
deal. It's pretty impressive for a seventeen year old.
Chris has worked at REI since he was seventeen or so. He's 22 now, so has
had the same good job for five years. No college, but he's a serious bicyclist
and can better afford his sport/hobby from working at a sports store.
That's our local group currently.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/17/03 10:18:59 PM Central Daylight Time,
Trisha@... writes:
Does anyone have any info or links about unschoolers who went to
college or got a really good job? I know it works, but I'd like to
give her some examples.
Thanks
Trisha
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Trisha! When did you join this group? <g> I'm sure Gary will grow up and
become some sort of game designer or LEGO/Bionacle artist. And BTW, what are you
worried about some poster on your BLOG for? ;o) How about Peter Kowalke? And
Mae Shell too. And they got married! So I guess that would make her Mae Kowalke,
unless she is a Shell-Kowake like I am an Edds-Owens. <bg>
Give me a call!
~Nancy
He felt that his whole life was some kind of dream and he sometimes wondered
whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.
Douglas Adams
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Trisha@... writes:
Does anyone have any info or links about unschoolers who went to
college or got a really good job? I know it works, but I'd like to
give her some examples.
Thanks
Trisha
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Trisha! When did you join this group? <g> I'm sure Gary will grow up and
become some sort of game designer or LEGO/Bionacle artist. And BTW, what are you
worried about some poster on your BLOG for? ;o) How about Peter Kowalke? And
Mae Shell too. And they got married! So I guess that would make her Mae Kowalke,
unless she is a Shell-Kowake like I am an Edds-Owens. <bg>
Give me a call!
~Nancy
He felt that his whole life was some kind of dream and he sometimes wondered
whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.
Douglas Adams
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Norma
--- In [email protected], "Trisha Sides" <Trisha@R...>
wrote:
My Dd is a die-hard unschooler. At 16 she has had her life path
pretty well set for the past 6-10 years, believe it or not. She is
a figure skater, first and foremost, training almost every day. She
aims to be a coach and ice choreographer. She does compete but we
have never gotten into the fierce competition that would put her in
Olympic contention. Costs way too much for our meager means, along
the lines of $34,000-$50,000 a year!!!! With no help from the
exceedingly rich USFSA that has billions in its coffers. We can't
even do it on a shoestring, but instead have managed 10 years of
training and coaching on fierce frugality and plenty of "old baling
twine," as I always say. But she definitely has what it takes to be
a great coach and choreographer, is known for her beauty and grace,
her unique musical selections, and unusual choreography on the ice.
At this point all the other young skaters are trying to copy her
moves, the surest sign of respect and admiration in skating. That's
career loop #1.
Career loop #2 is to get her undergrad degree in fine arts, with an
emphasis on ceramics. She is specifically interested in raku and pit-
firing. She applied for and attended a summer college program for
senior high students this past summer, attending a course in raku and
pit-firing. She received a full scholarship and absolutely loved
Earlham College. Having visited and attended other programs at other
colleges over the past 3 years this was the first time she said that
this was the school where she wanted to get her degree. We will see
what kind of scholarship and financing package they offer her. Since
raku ceramics is not offered at very many colleges she will not have
a lot of choice, so I am very happy that she has already found one
school that offers this curriculum and that she loves. She even
liked the dorms, where she stayed during the hottest month of the
year without air conditioning, hanging out in the exceedingly hot
kiln room, covered in slip. And she loved the dorm food! Wow! That
was a big surprise, since she is usually the pickiest eater around.
She also loves clothing design and has been doing that since she was
8 years old, winning the state trophy in 4-H when she was 10 for one
of her outfits. She may or may not drift into that as a career
direction at some point. But meanwhile she gets lots of satisfaction
out of designing and making her own unique clothes.
She also has a school lined up for graduate school and we will go
visit there sometime this year. She will apply to this school,
Alfred University in Afred, NY, for undergrad school, too, but
Earlham is clearly her first choice.
Meanwhile, back in teendom, she worked for two years in the gift shop
at our local Museum Center where she had worked as a youth volunteer,
a great job reference for the future with a letter of recommendation
from the CEO. And she has worked seasonally as a skate guard at her
home ice rink during their busy holiday season every year. Currently
she is working at our local branch library. These are all premium
jobs, hard to get, with very few openings, competitive, requiring
special skills, and that pay well for teens. The library job is
especially good, guaranteeing her 12 hours a week at well above
McDonald's wages, all the while learning and being around great
people, great books, great educational resources. She always comes
home with an armload of books, CDs, software, sheet music, etc. I
would highly recommend that other unschoolers look into library
jobs. Might also help her qualify for a library job at college.
So, yes, there are great jobs and wonderful opportunities out there
for "unschoolers." Many, like my daughter, will be best suited for
more unconventional careers. Even the college she chose is listed in
The Fiske Guide To Getting Into The Right College as one of the
top "nonconformist" colleges, which seems quite appropriate. And her
second-choice college is listed as one of the "best-kept secrets"
colleges, greatly respected in the world of ceramics.
So don't think that unschoolers can't find their niche. On the
contrary, I think they are the best candidates for truly finding
their own way in the world. After all, they have been doing it all
along.
Norma
wrote:
> Hi everyone,school.
> I have gotten several comments on my blog from a girl who is SURE
> that Gary won't be able to get a good job if he doesn't go to
> Does anyone have any info or links about unschoolers who went toTrisha:
> college or got a really good job? I know it works, but I'd like to
> give her some examples.
> Thanks
> Trisha
> http://radicalmama.motime.com/
My Dd is a die-hard unschooler. At 16 she has had her life path
pretty well set for the past 6-10 years, believe it or not. She is
a figure skater, first and foremost, training almost every day. She
aims to be a coach and ice choreographer. She does compete but we
have never gotten into the fierce competition that would put her in
Olympic contention. Costs way too much for our meager means, along
the lines of $34,000-$50,000 a year!!!! With no help from the
exceedingly rich USFSA that has billions in its coffers. We can't
even do it on a shoestring, but instead have managed 10 years of
training and coaching on fierce frugality and plenty of "old baling
twine," as I always say. But she definitely has what it takes to be
a great coach and choreographer, is known for her beauty and grace,
her unique musical selections, and unusual choreography on the ice.
At this point all the other young skaters are trying to copy her
moves, the surest sign of respect and admiration in skating. That's
career loop #1.
Career loop #2 is to get her undergrad degree in fine arts, with an
emphasis on ceramics. She is specifically interested in raku and pit-
firing. She applied for and attended a summer college program for
senior high students this past summer, attending a course in raku and
pit-firing. She received a full scholarship and absolutely loved
Earlham College. Having visited and attended other programs at other
colleges over the past 3 years this was the first time she said that
this was the school where she wanted to get her degree. We will see
what kind of scholarship and financing package they offer her. Since
raku ceramics is not offered at very many colleges she will not have
a lot of choice, so I am very happy that she has already found one
school that offers this curriculum and that she loves. She even
liked the dorms, where she stayed during the hottest month of the
year without air conditioning, hanging out in the exceedingly hot
kiln room, covered in slip. And she loved the dorm food! Wow! That
was a big surprise, since she is usually the pickiest eater around.
She also loves clothing design and has been doing that since she was
8 years old, winning the state trophy in 4-H when she was 10 for one
of her outfits. She may or may not drift into that as a career
direction at some point. But meanwhile she gets lots of satisfaction
out of designing and making her own unique clothes.
She also has a school lined up for graduate school and we will go
visit there sometime this year. She will apply to this school,
Alfred University in Afred, NY, for undergrad school, too, but
Earlham is clearly her first choice.
Meanwhile, back in teendom, she worked for two years in the gift shop
at our local Museum Center where she had worked as a youth volunteer,
a great job reference for the future with a letter of recommendation
from the CEO. And she has worked seasonally as a skate guard at her
home ice rink during their busy holiday season every year. Currently
she is working at our local branch library. These are all premium
jobs, hard to get, with very few openings, competitive, requiring
special skills, and that pay well for teens. The library job is
especially good, guaranteeing her 12 hours a week at well above
McDonald's wages, all the while learning and being around great
people, great books, great educational resources. She always comes
home with an armload of books, CDs, software, sheet music, etc. I
would highly recommend that other unschoolers look into library
jobs. Might also help her qualify for a library job at college.
So, yes, there are great jobs and wonderful opportunities out there
for "unschoolers." Many, like my daughter, will be best suited for
more unconventional careers. Even the college she chose is listed in
The Fiske Guide To Getting Into The Right College as one of the
top "nonconformist" colleges, which seems quite appropriate. And her
second-choice college is listed as one of the "best-kept secrets"
colleges, greatly respected in the world of ceramics.
So don't think that unschoolers can't find their niche. On the
contrary, I think they are the best candidates for truly finding
their own way in the world. After all, they have been doing it all
along.
Norma
Julie
leschke@... wrote:
<<I have gotten several comments on my blog from a girl who is SURE
that Gary won't be able to get a good job if he doesn't go to school. Does anyone have any info or links about unschoolers who went to college or got a really good job?>>
Here is an excerpt from Growing Without Schooling as quoted in Grace Llewellyn's Teenage Liberation Handbook.
From Growing Without Schooling, issue #100, Darlene Lester of California writes about her son Ely:
During his years at home he discovered and developed his talent for drawing. He took art lessons, drew every day, and delighted us with his increasing skill. He had a great love for Disney-style art and spent a lot of time drawing Disney characters. He got astonishingly good. At twelve he was earning money doing "quick sketch" portraits at parties. He learned how to do this from a retired artist who had worked at Disneyland...
[Later, when Ely started researching schools,] He found out that they were all horrendously expensive. Finally, he discovered a life drawing class in L.A. that was taught by a retired Disney animator. He signed up and made the two-and-a-half hour trip once a week. He met some people in the class who told him about an ROP animation class held at a high school in the area. He signed up for that, too, and said he felt like he was in the right place...
This ROP program funnels talented people into the animation industry by creating internships with the various animation studios. Ely just recently interview to become an intern at Film Roman, an animation company in L.A., and he got the internship. He will train there for about a month, and if they like him, he'll be put on the payroll...
The beauty of all this is that while Ely's artistic peers are grinding away in universities or at expensive art schools, with no guarantee of work in that field, Ely will be busy training in the nitty-gritty of his chosen career.
Steve and I have always told the boys that we've both had a wonderful life, each of us doing what we love to do (and getting paid for it), without having attended college. Instead, we move directly toward our goals with as few middlemen as possible. It was definitely a quicker and more enjoyable way to go, and it always seemed much cheaper. We are clear now that many kinds of work can be entered directly through some kind of apprenticeship arrangement, or through a trade school, or by simply working on your own, getting tips from mentors or books when you get stuck. We are more sure than ever that college is not for everyone, that for many kinds of work it is not the best route, that it is shamefully overpriced for what you get, that it doesn't guarantee you a good-paying job (or any job, for that matter), and that its hard sell given routinely in high school is not deserved.
Hope this helps!
Julie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<<I have gotten several comments on my blog from a girl who is SURE
that Gary won't be able to get a good job if he doesn't go to school. Does anyone have any info or links about unschoolers who went to college or got a really good job?>>
Here is an excerpt from Growing Without Schooling as quoted in Grace Llewellyn's Teenage Liberation Handbook.
From Growing Without Schooling, issue #100, Darlene Lester of California writes about her son Ely:
During his years at home he discovered and developed his talent for drawing. He took art lessons, drew every day, and delighted us with his increasing skill. He had a great love for Disney-style art and spent a lot of time drawing Disney characters. He got astonishingly good. At twelve he was earning money doing "quick sketch" portraits at parties. He learned how to do this from a retired artist who had worked at Disneyland...
[Later, when Ely started researching schools,] He found out that they were all horrendously expensive. Finally, he discovered a life drawing class in L.A. that was taught by a retired Disney animator. He signed up and made the two-and-a-half hour trip once a week. He met some people in the class who told him about an ROP animation class held at a high school in the area. He signed up for that, too, and said he felt like he was in the right place...
This ROP program funnels talented people into the animation industry by creating internships with the various animation studios. Ely just recently interview to become an intern at Film Roman, an animation company in L.A., and he got the internship. He will train there for about a month, and if they like him, he'll be put on the payroll...
The beauty of all this is that while Ely's artistic peers are grinding away in universities or at expensive art schools, with no guarantee of work in that field, Ely will be busy training in the nitty-gritty of his chosen career.
Steve and I have always told the boys that we've both had a wonderful life, each of us doing what we love to do (and getting paid for it), without having attended college. Instead, we move directly toward our goals with as few middlemen as possible. It was definitely a quicker and more enjoyable way to go, and it always seemed much cheaper. We are clear now that many kinds of work can be entered directly through some kind of apprenticeship arrangement, or through a trade school, or by simply working on your own, getting tips from mentors or books when you get stuck. We are more sure than ever that college is not for everyone, that for many kinds of work it is not the best route, that it is shamefully overpriced for what you get, that it doesn't guarantee you a good-paying job (or any job, for that matter), and that its hard sell given routinely in high school is not deserved.
Hope this helps!
Julie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/18/03 2:55:27 AM, Dnowens@... writes:
<< How about Peter Kowalke? And
Mae Shell too. And they got married! So I guess that would make her Mae
Kowalke,
unless she is a Shell-Kowake like I am an Edds-Owens. <bg> >>
Her webpages are linked from
http://sandradodd.com/unschooling
Sandra
<< How about Peter Kowalke? And
Mae Shell too. And they got married! So I guess that would make her Mae
Kowalke,
unless she is a Shell-Kowake like I am an Edds-Owens. <bg> >>
Her webpages are linked from
http://sandradodd.com/unschooling
Sandra
Trisha Sides
>up and
> Trisha! When did you join this group? <g> I'm sure Gary will grow
> become some sort of game designer or LEGO/Bionacle artist. And BTW,what are you
> worried about some poster on your BLOG for? >Hey Nancy !<G> I've been here for awhile actually. I lurk alot.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm not really WORRIED about the poster, in the sense that I owe her
any explanations, but she asked some valid questions and I just
wanted to answer the best I could- She is a teenager in Brazil and
mentioned she'd like to homeschool her future kids but didn't think
she could- She has alot of misconceptions, but she's been pretty open-
minded.
Trisha