Libraries as enemies to learning
[email protected]
<< another book called The Pinball Effect, shelved with history). >>
<<In spite of the overlaps, it helps us to locate things.In the section we
could call
math are only a couple of "fun with math" type things that I bought when I
was supply teaching, and a textbook or two.>>
I don't know what "supply teaching" is.
<<but are there any writers who are able to let me in on their sense of
wonder, on their
AHA's and on what grips them in mathematics?>>
Do they have to be "real writers," or can they be people here? Would you
feel better having a bought book in your math section than just actually
trying the ideas here?
<<Let me try it this way,--I am touched emotionally, sometimes moved to tears
by music, poetry, prose, paintings, photographs, films, dance, plays and
people's actions. I've not yet been touched by anything that I recognize as
mathematical, but I believe it to be possible. >>
Some people are touched emotionally by a really great football move.
(bodily/kinesthetic)
Some are moved to tears by their own thoughts and new ideas. (intrapersonal)
Some are mesmerized for hours or a lifetime by flowers and bees and birdsong.
Your list above covered all the rest except mathematical ("the rest" and "the
all" being Gardner's Multiple Intelligences).
Some people are tone deaf. Some get hives even thinking about walking in the
woods. Some ignore all artistry in language--use it JUST as a tool and never
perceive art in the arrangement or sound or content of words. Some think
sports is stupid, dance is a waste of time, and never in the least recognize
their friends at a distance by the way they walk.
They're not bad people, or lazy or ignorant people. They just have
different "intelligences," they're thinking of the world in the languages
that work best for them.
Our culture has prized verbal and mathematical far above all the rest. It's
officially okay for someone to be lacking in social skills as long as they
have a high SAT score. It's okay to lack philosophy or grace as long as
you're a good test taker.
And then there's the library problem.
I have a math/science section, but it's combined with oddity, trivia and
puzzles. It flows into psychology and medical/biochemical issues. I have
menopause, LSD, Prozac, puberty and the women's movement stuff all
surrounding math. The public library probably doesn't.
I have history books divided into Roman and medieval European and Renaissance
and American and New Mexico. There are books that straddle. There are
books in religion that are all about history. There are books on the shelf
with English that are all about history.
The original charge here that some libraries have no books on math is really
interesting. Math doesn't come in words very well. I have a couple of
"books on music" which have no written-out music, and have no CD or record or
tape, and have few pictures, just words. They're WEIRD, even those I know
lots about. They're not for reading through like a story, they're like giant
footnotes. Some are the result and by-product of some guy getting a music
degree fifty or a hundred years ago. Reading what someone thought about the
development of baroque melodic line and counterpoint is NOT fun reading. And
it's no starting place, or ending place, for musicians. Reading theories on
the collection of ballads in Scandinavia and Germanic-speaking lands is not
about music. It's about culture and folklore. Putting it on the shelf with
fairy tales isn't right though. Maybe I should put it with math and science.
To someone who doesn't know what a ballad is, though, it's not a book for
reading at all. It's just nonsense out of context.
So will having more books with words about math help a family in which
patterns don't jump out and dance?
Sandra
<<In spite of the overlaps, it helps us to locate things.In the section we
could call
math are only a couple of "fun with math" type things that I bought when I
was supply teaching, and a textbook or two.>>
I don't know what "supply teaching" is.
<<but are there any writers who are able to let me in on their sense of
wonder, on their
AHA's and on what grips them in mathematics?>>
Do they have to be "real writers," or can they be people here? Would you
feel better having a bought book in your math section than just actually
trying the ideas here?
<<Let me try it this way,--I am touched emotionally, sometimes moved to tears
by music, poetry, prose, paintings, photographs, films, dance, plays and
people's actions. I've not yet been touched by anything that I recognize as
mathematical, but I believe it to be possible. >>
Some people are touched emotionally by a really great football move.
(bodily/kinesthetic)
Some are moved to tears by their own thoughts and new ideas. (intrapersonal)
Some are mesmerized for hours or a lifetime by flowers and bees and birdsong.
Your list above covered all the rest except mathematical ("the rest" and "the
all" being Gardner's Multiple Intelligences).
Some people are tone deaf. Some get hives even thinking about walking in the
woods. Some ignore all artistry in language--use it JUST as a tool and never
perceive art in the arrangement or sound or content of words. Some think
sports is stupid, dance is a waste of time, and never in the least recognize
their friends at a distance by the way they walk.
They're not bad people, or lazy or ignorant people. They just have
different "intelligences," they're thinking of the world in the languages
that work best for them.
Our culture has prized verbal and mathematical far above all the rest. It's
officially okay for someone to be lacking in social skills as long as they
have a high SAT score. It's okay to lack philosophy or grace as long as
you're a good test taker.
And then there's the library problem.
I have a math/science section, but it's combined with oddity, trivia and
puzzles. It flows into psychology and medical/biochemical issues. I have
menopause, LSD, Prozac, puberty and the women's movement stuff all
surrounding math. The public library probably doesn't.
I have history books divided into Roman and medieval European and Renaissance
and American and New Mexico. There are books that straddle. There are
books in religion that are all about history. There are books on the shelf
with English that are all about history.
The original charge here that some libraries have no books on math is really
interesting. Math doesn't come in words very well. I have a couple of
"books on music" which have no written-out music, and have no CD or record or
tape, and have few pictures, just words. They're WEIRD, even those I know
lots about. They're not for reading through like a story, they're like giant
footnotes. Some are the result and by-product of some guy getting a music
degree fifty or a hundred years ago. Reading what someone thought about the
development of baroque melodic line and counterpoint is NOT fun reading. And
it's no starting place, or ending place, for musicians. Reading theories on
the collection of ballads in Scandinavia and Germanic-speaking lands is not
about music. It's about culture and folklore. Putting it on the shelf with
fairy tales isn't right though. Maybe I should put it with math and science.
To someone who doesn't know what a ballad is, though, it's not a book for
reading at all. It's just nonsense out of context.
So will having more books with words about math help a family in which
patterns don't jump out and dance?
Sandra
zenmomma *
>Some are moved to tears by their own thoughts and new ideas.Ooooh. This is just one of my intelligences! I always thought it meant I was
>(intrapersonal)
a bit self involved. ;-) LOL!
>Our culture has prized verbal and mathematical far above all the rest.I think this is definitely true in school, but do you think it holds true in
>It's
>officially okay for someone to be lacking in social skills as long as they
>have a high SAT score. It's okay to lack philosophy or grace as long as
>you're a good test taker.
real life? I believe it's one of the problems "good students" sometimes
encounter in the outside world. The same skills are *not* the only ones that
count. In the real world you need some interpersonal skills. And lacking in
philosophy or grace makes for a dull person or a poor friend. I think those
with only high mathematical and verbal skills have much to relearn outside
of school.
~Mary
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
[email protected]
<< I think this is definitely true in school, but do you think it holds true
in
real life? I believe it's one of the problems "good students" sometimes
encounter in the outside world. The same skills are *not* the only ones that
count. In the real world you need some interpersonal skills. And lacking in
philosophy or grace makes for a dull person or a poor friend. I think those
with only high mathematical and verbal skills have much to relearn outside
of school. >>
Do you see many homeschoolers saying, "Well my kid have very little in the
way of writing, math or test-taking ability, but they play soccer and dance
and they understand ALL their little friends' homelives and interpersonal
problems, they think about the nature of the universe every day and they know
where all the birds' nests in our yard are" ?
Maybe some do. <g>
Sandra
in
real life? I believe it's one of the problems "good students" sometimes
encounter in the outside world. The same skills are *not* the only ones that
count. In the real world you need some interpersonal skills. And lacking in
philosophy or grace makes for a dull person or a poor friend. I think those
with only high mathematical and verbal skills have much to relearn outside
of school. >>
Do you see many homeschoolers saying, "Well my kid have very little in the
way of writing, math or test-taking ability, but they play soccer and dance
and they understand ALL their little friends' homelives and interpersonal
problems, they think about the nature of the universe every day and they know
where all the birds' nests in our yard are" ?
Maybe some do. <g>
Sandra
Cindy
zenmomma * wrote:
in most others. Some of them are quite wealthy too! A friend of mine
was talking about her husband's difficulties in getting along with coworkers
and bosses. She seemed to think it was the norm and was surprised to hear
that my husband was able to be friendly with his coworkers. I remember
working with people who could hardly answer a "hello" but could spend hours
discussing their latest computer game or section of code. Some of them
do eventually learn other skills and others don't.
Of course many might have a hard time thinking of Silicon Valley as the
"real world" - even some of us who live here!<g>
--
Cindy Ferguson
crma@...
>Silicon Valley has a lot of people who are good in math skills and lacking
> I think this is definitely true in school, but do you think it holds true in
> real life? I believe it's one of the problems "good students" sometimes
> encounter in the outside world. The same skills are *not* the only ones that
> count. In the real world you need some interpersonal skills. And lacking in
> philosophy or grace makes for a dull person or a poor friend. I think those
> with only high mathematical and verbal skills have much to relearn outside
> of school.
>
in most others. Some of them are quite wealthy too! A friend of mine
was talking about her husband's difficulties in getting along with coworkers
and bosses. She seemed to think it was the norm and was surprised to hear
that my husband was able to be friendly with his coworkers. I remember
working with people who could hardly answer a "hello" but could spend hours
discussing their latest computer game or section of code. Some of them
do eventually learn other skills and others don't.
Of course many might have a hard time thinking of Silicon Valley as the
"real world" - even some of us who live here!<g>
--
Cindy Ferguson
crma@...
zenmomma *
>Do you see many homeschoolers saying, "Well my kid have very little in theMaybe not so many school-at-homers, but I certainly hear this kind of
>way of writing, math or test-taking ability, but they play soccer and dance
>and they understand ALL their little friends' homelives and interpersonal
>problems, they think about the nature of the universe every day and they
>know
>where all the birds' nests in our yard are" ?
understanding among unschoolers. And, of course, school-at-homers are just
buying into the whole school mentality.
>Count me in. :o)
>Maybe some do. <g>
~Mary
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
zenmomma *
>Silicon Valley has a lot of people who are good in math skills and lackingYes, but do we want to measure success in the real world only in terms of
>in most others. Some of them are quite wealthy too!
career success? I'm thinking there are also all those hours spent outside of
the office. Those are the times where people may have to learn some other
skills if they want to "succeed". Of course, lots of times people without
these skills don't care to have lots of friends, or think outside of their
own little world, so it may not be an issue for them. It may be for their
immediate friends/family though.
~mary
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/1/2001 10:30:17 AM Pacific Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
inner anxieties about their kids inability to spell or spit out
multiplication facts. I have, in the past, found it a whole lot easier to
think this way about other people's kids. I think I'm usually pretty much
there now, though, for my own kids too. It has taken years of rubbing
shoulders with people I could learn it from, though, and experience and
observation of people with these kinds of new thoughts in my head and lots
and lots of reading.
--pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> Do you see many homeschoolers saying, "Well my kid have very little in theYah - some do - I think I mostly do. But I think we often also fight our own
> way of writing, math or test-taking ability, but they play soccer and dance
> and they understand ALL their little friends' homelives and interpersonal
> problems, they think about the nature of the universe every day and they
> know
> where all the birds' nests in our yard are" ?
>
> Maybe some do. <g>
inner anxieties about their kids inability to spell or spit out
multiplication facts. I have, in the past, found it a whole lot easier to
think this way about other people's kids. I think I'm usually pretty much
there now, though, for my own kids too. It has taken years of rubbing
shoulders with people I could learn it from, though, and experience and
observation of people with these kinds of new thoughts in my head and lots
and lots of reading.
--pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/1/2001 11:07:44 AM Pacific Standard Time,
crma@... writes:
question is deeper than that. The question is more like: "Schools highly
value certain skills - writing, math, and test-taking. Outside of school,
though, what makes for a "successful life?" What is "valued" outside of
school? Well - yeah - people with lousy interpersonal skills, no appreciation
of nature, little intrapersonal intelligence, a lack of interest in fine arts
or beautiful language --- those people can make a bunch of money sometimes.
But the real question is what kind of "life" do they live? Not how much money
do they make. What is highly valued outside of school? What HAS value? Do
they have friends and families who value them - do they feel loved and
cherished? Is their work of value to the world in some way - do they feel
they are contributing something important - does it add beauty or
understanding or help people to live better or ? What is valued outside of
school? My expert test-taking skills are of NO value in any sense - they
contribute nothing to the world that is of any value whatsoever. My ability
to sense when a child's feelings are being hurt and to be able to help them
work it out -- THAT is of actual real value in the world. What skills "count"
in the real world? In my own real world <g> it is clear that those
intelligences not typically highly-valued in school count a LOT.
--pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
crma@... writes:
> > I think this is definitely true in school, but do you think it holds trueQuite wealthy in terms of money, I suppose you meant, right? But I think the
> in
> > real life? I believe it's one of the problems "good students" sometimes
> > encounter in the outside world. The same skills are *not* the only ones
> that
> > count. In the real world you need some interpersonal skills. And lacking
> in
> > philosophy or grace makes for a dull person or a poor friend. I think
> those
> > with only high mathematical and verbal skills have much to relearn outside
> > of school.
> >
>
> Silicon Valley has a lot of people who are good in math skills and lacking
> in most others. Some of them are quite wealthy too!
question is deeper than that. The question is more like: "Schools highly
value certain skills - writing, math, and test-taking. Outside of school,
though, what makes for a "successful life?" What is "valued" outside of
school? Well - yeah - people with lousy interpersonal skills, no appreciation
of nature, little intrapersonal intelligence, a lack of interest in fine arts
or beautiful language --- those people can make a bunch of money sometimes.
But the real question is what kind of "life" do they live? Not how much money
do they make. What is highly valued outside of school? What HAS value? Do
they have friends and families who value them - do they feel loved and
cherished? Is their work of value to the world in some way - do they feel
they are contributing something important - does it add beauty or
understanding or help people to live better or ? What is valued outside of
school? My expert test-taking skills are of NO value in any sense - they
contribute nothing to the world that is of any value whatsoever. My ability
to sense when a child's feelings are being hurt and to be able to help them
work it out -- THAT is of actual real value in the world. What skills "count"
in the real world? In my own real world <g> it is clear that those
intelligences not typically highly-valued in school count a LOT.
--pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/3/01 10:21:45 AM, KathrynJB@... writes:
<< My 12 year old son Julian sings like an angel, and "thinks" musically,
can use words in ways that make you see (and talk to) squirrels coming off
his fuzzy head, and knows exactly what to do whenever anyone around him is
sad (and is a fabulous friend to people who have literally never had one). >>
This is beautiful. Good for Julian, all his life will touch.
<< My 12 year old son Julian sings like an angel, and "thinks" musically,
can use words in ways that make you see (and talk to) squirrels coming off
his fuzzy head, and knows exactly what to do whenever anyone around him is
sad (and is a fabulous friend to people who have literally never had one). >>
This is beautiful. Good for Julian, all his life will touch.