[email protected]

and never been wrong!

He's a smart kid, he knows it. He can't be wrong, it doesn't exist in his
world. It's not just me, his friends will agree. I wish I could video
tape his every move and play it back for him so he can see life from a
different point of view.
This morning he worked on his bike in the garage, he's a grease monkey
and loving it. I heard a bang on the door and figured he wanted in. He
knows the grease isn't welcome on the doorknobs or anywhere else for that
matter. He tries to be compliant. Sometimes. He's a good kid. I opened
the door , he asked for me to work the hose so he could rinse off the
goop he was cleaning his all so blackened hands with. He had found a deep
root watering thingy in the trash a couple days earlier, it was still
attached to the hose but he said that would work fine for washing up. I
turned on the spigot and told him we'd have to move down near the street
so the chemicals wouldn't kill my garden, but the thingy must have been
clogged for no water was coming out. We realized it had to come off the
hose. DUH! right. I couldn't find the nozzle and asked him where he put
it when he removed it to hook up the DRW thingy. Frustrated, he said to
just pull the hose down towards the street without it. I'm living in
drought country here, it's a waste to turn the water on and let it flow
freely and unused and besides I figured the pressure the nozzle makes
would work better anyway. I asked again where the nozzle is, he cursed
and grumbled something about the cleaner and how it was going to eat
through his skin. I find the nozzle hidden in a plant, put it on the
hose, turn the spigot back on and head towards him but he was gone. I
hear the garage door open and shut, he's in the house washing up. I let
him know I'd like him to clean off the door knob and put away the hose I
had just pulled out for him. He grumbled. I was a bitch, why didn't I
just rinse his hands off yesterday? He's so impatient. So am I,
sometimes, like now. I told him he's got a bad attitude, I complied with
his request for help, he couldn't wait the extra minute for me to locate
the nozzle, the nozzle he misplaced!( ok, I yelled!) I try to be patient
but he seems to create small problems, ignore them, let them manifest
into bigger ones, and then the shit hits the fan. Why must we fight? It
sucks!
10 minutes later he comes over calmly to explain why he had to rinse his
hands off immediately, shows me his dry calloused, well worked hands and
tells me the goop eats though his skin. I've used goop many times, I
don't think it eats through your skin, I think the work you do to get
them so dirty does though. But he's never wrong.
He's gone out to meet up with friends.
Now I'm afraid to look in the garage cause I have a terrible feeling it's
a big mess. That'll be our next conflict of the day.

How does the saying go?
A dirty kid is a happy one?

Sharon

________________________________________________________________
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Kathleen and David Gehrke

Hey Sharon,
Keep the faith! It sounds as if he is developmentally
normal.. HURRAY HUH...With my two grown sons we went
through a time that was unbearable. Especially tough
with my son who thought he knew everything and could
not be wrong.
I was a foster parent for years. I helped lots of
teenage girls and boys have trouble get through that
tough time, but when my kids went through it all my
buttons were pushed. My second son could have me
acting like a maniac in five minutes flat till I
figured out non confrontational was the way to go with
him. So what did work was to make sure I took care of
myself. No one can call me a name and expect my
cooperation. Sometimes I would just walk away and
continue with my life. With son number two I would
have to wait till the situation settled and then make
I statements.. Like, "I would really appreciate you
taking care of your things when you have a chance,
Thanks a lot bud". I believe that teenagers have such
an internal struggle going on that in many ways they
revert to much younger behavior. So a once
responsible kid forgets and is so absorbed in self
that what seem like normal demands to us become
overwhelming and irrationally irritating to them. I am
seeing it now with my daughter.. The only bonus is I
know they turn back into their best selves again.
Both sons are some of the finest folks I know.So
please take my compassion and know that this too will
pass.
Kathleen
very fortunate
mom of eight
--- sluror@... wrote:
> and never been wrong!
>
> He's a smart kid, he knows it. He can't be wrong, it
> doesn't exist in his
> world. It's not just me, his friends will agree. I
> wish I could video
> tape his every move and play it back for him so he
> can see life from a
> different point of view.
> This morning he worked on his bike in the garage,
> he's a grease monkey
> and loving it. I heard a bang on the door and
> figured he wanted in. He
> knows the grease isn't welcome on the doorknobs or
> anywhere else for that
> matter. He tries to be compliant. Sometimes. He's a
> good kid. I opened
> the door , he asked for me to work the hose so he
> could rinse off the
> goop he was cleaning his all so blackened hands
> with. He had found a deep
> root watering thingy in the trash a couple days
> earlier, it was still
> attached to the hose but he said that would work
> fine for washing up. I
> turned on the spigot and told him we'd have to move
> down near the street
> so the chemicals wouldn't kill my garden, but the
> thingy must have been
> clogged for no water was coming out. We realized it
> had to come off the
> hose. DUH! right. I couldn't find the nozzle and
> asked him where he put
> it when he removed it to hook up the DRW thingy.
> Frustrated, he said to
> just pull the hose down towards the street without
> it. I'm living in
> drought country here, it's a waste to turn the water
> on and let it flow
> freely and unused and besides I figured the pressure
> the nozzle makes
> would work better anyway. I asked again where the
> nozzle is, he cursed
> and grumbled something about the cleaner and how it
> was going to eat
> through his skin. I find the nozzle hidden in a
> plant, put it on the
> hose, turn the spigot back on and head towards him
> but he was gone. I
> hear the garage door open and shut, he's in the
> house washing up. I let
> him know I'd like him to clean off the door knob and
> put away the hose I
> had just pulled out for him. He grumbled. I was a
> bitch, why didn't I
> just rinse his hands off yesterday? He's so
> impatient. So am I,
> sometimes, like now. I told him he's got a bad
> attitude, I complied with
> his request for help, he couldn't wait the extra
> minute for me to locate
> the nozzle, the nozzle he misplaced!( ok, I yelled!)
> I try to be patient
> but he seems to create small problems, ignore them,
> let them manifest
> into bigger ones, and then the shit hits the fan.
> Why must we fight? It
> sucks!
> 10 minutes later he comes over calmly to explain why
> he had to rinse his
> hands off immediately, shows me his dry calloused,
> well worked hands and
> tells me the goop eats though his skin. I've used
> goop many times, I
> don't think it eats through your skin, I think the
> work you do to get
> them so dirty does though. But he's never wrong.
> He's gone out to meet up with friends.
> Now I'm afraid to look in the garage cause I have a
> terrible feeling it's
> a big mess. That'll be our next conflict of the day.
>
> How does the saying go?
> A dirty kid is a happy one?
>
> Sharon
>
>
________________________________________________________________
> The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno
> SpeedBand!
> Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
> Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up
> today!
>


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[email protected]

In a message dated 7/10/03 11:35:15 AM, sluror@... writes:

<< I've used goop many times, I
don't think it eats through your skin, >>

Have you ever thought cold water would rinse it off? Or grease?

If it had been your husband or an adult friend who was working on a bike for
you, wouldn't you have opened the door for him and get dishwashing liquid or
something that would take grease off and run him some hot water and find a rag
you didn't mind him using and hand it to him?

I could be wrong, but it seems from the account that you were treating him in
a second-class way from the point you wanted him to use the hose, but were
grumpy about running cold water during a drought.

<<But he's never wrong.>>

Maybe he was right about thinking he needed hot water and soap to wash his
hands.


Sandra

[email protected]

Oh no, you don't understand. Goop is hand cleaner. We keep it in the
garage just for cleaning our hands. He was using it to clean the grease
off.
I did open the door when he knocked/banged. I thought I was letting him
in. I helped him with the hose because that's what he asked for, but
when I asked him for help locating the nozzle he didn't have the patience
or thought the hand cleaner was damaging his skin so he didn't want to
wait or help me locate the nozzle.
I asked him where the nozzle was because he was the last one who handled
it. I didn't see it anywhere near the faucet, that's were we usually keep
them when they're not on the hose.
It's not like this was taking forever, this happened within 5 mins. He
basically stormed off into the house to rinse his hands in the sink.
He could have done that in the first place. I wouldn't have had a problem
with that, well, less the bad attitude.
I would have opened the door again for him if he said forget it lets just
go in the house.
He knows he can use hot water inside but he also knows that his hands
were super greasy and needed a prewash.
He decided to use the goop first, and he wanted to wash them off with the
hose.
I wasn't grumpy about using the hose, I would just prefer to have the
nozzle on so I wouldn't have to waste the water as I walked down the path
to the street.

I felt mistreated, like his servant that didn't help right enough, quick
enough. I could take back my old job if I wanted to be treated like that.

Besides, I'm never wrong, not him. 8)

Sharon

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:37:28 EDT SandraDodd@... writes:
>
> In a message dated 7/10/03 11:35:15 AM, sluror@... writes:
>
> << I've used goop many times, I
> don't think it eats through your skin, >>
>
> Have you ever thought cold water would rinse it off? Or grease?
>
> If it had been your husband or an adult friend who was working on a
> bike for
> you, wouldn't you have opened the door for him and get dishwashing
> liquid or
> something that would take grease off and run him some hot water and
> find a rag
> you didn't mind him using and hand it to him?
>
> I could be wrong, but it seems from the account that you were
> treating him in
> a second-class way from the point you wanted him to use the hose,
> but were
> grumpy about running cold water during a drought.
>
> <<But he's never wrong.>>
>
> Maybe he was right about thinking he needed hot water and soap to
> wash his
> hands.
>
>
> Sandra
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
>


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Kathleen writes:
> Hey Sharon,
> Keep the faith! It sounds as if he is developmentally
> normal.. HURRAY HUH..

Yeah, whoohoo!
I don't doubt he'll be just fine when he's out on his own, it just sucks
when it seems everything here is a battle sometimes. It saddens me that
we waste any of the time we have together bickering.

Especially tough
> with my son who thought he knew everything and could
> not be wrong.

No, that's my son. His friends and I witnessed him admit he was wrong
about another topic yesterday. We were both shocked and humored by it.
His friend told me he had gotten him to argue his point for him once by
twisting his words, he knew my son would debate whatever it was till he
proved his point. Anyone who knows him wouldn't expect less. I guess
it's a good trait but sometimes think it'll get him into trouble someday.

. So what did work was to make sure I took care of
> myself. No one can call me a name and expect my
> cooperation. Sometimes I would just walk away and
> continue with my life.

Abandonment? yeah, but then I'll feel the guilt trip thing.
But really, I give him the why should I go out of my way for someone who
treats me so bad thing. He's a good one to curse you out at breakfast
then ask a favor by lunch. I don't want to sound like I'm holding a
grudge but this happens too often and there's no apologies in between.

I believe that teenagers have such
> an internal struggle going on that in many ways they
> revert to much younger behavior.

Anyone have a cure for internal struggles?

So a once
> responsible kid forgets and is so absorbed in self
> that what seem like normal demands to us become
> overwhelming and irrationally irritating to them.

Exactly! When I ask if he's done something even if it's only once he
acts like I've been nagging him for hours to get it done.

So
> please take my compassion and know that this too will
> pass.

Thanks!
My MIL told me years ago that everything is only temporary. It's so true.
I keep going back to that for strength.

He just came home and is telling me all the messed up stuff his peers are
into. I love that he talks to me about this stuff. Sometimes life for
these kids today looks like a nightmare to me. Talk about externally
motivated internal struggles. I wonder how bad things between us would be
if we couldn't / didn't talk, but I don't want to know.

Sharon





________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!

[email protected]

Sharon wrote: I felt mistreated, like his servant that didn't help right enough, quick
enough.

Raine replies: (((Sharon))) It can be tough when our kids (or anyone) get in these types of funky moods. However, I know I can get a bit "pissy" myself at times.
I feel for you... it just seems like one of those things that occur with people that we live with, or spend a lot of time with.
In reading your story, I can see times when I have treated someone else, likely my kids, like you described. I see some work that needs to be done in myself.
Thank you so much for sharing. I am a better person for having read this thread.
Shalom,
Raine
**Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.
Oscar Wilde**

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Barb Eaton

Sharon,
I don't think that was what was meant. Kathleen correct me if I'm wrong.
What I thought she meant was take a time out for yourself. Cool off and
think about what you want to say instead of speaking in the heat of the
moment. I know I get all wrapped up in it sometimes when I'm upset with my
ds. If I back away, cool down, and think about it we do much better. Those
*I* statements work well here too. Thanks for the reminder Kathleen.


Barb E
"The function of the child is to live his own life - not the life that his
anxious parents think he should live."
A S Neill




on 7/11/03 1:26 AM, sluror@... at sluror@... wrote:

> . So what did work was to make sure I took care of
>> myself. No one can call me a name and expect my
>> cooperation. Sometimes I would just walk away and
>> continue with my life.
>
> Abandonment? yeah, but then I'll feel the guilt trip thing.
> But really, I give him the why should I go out of my way for someone who
> treats me so bad thing. He's a good one to curse you out at breakfast
> then ask a favor by lunch. I don't want to sound like I'm holding a
> grudge but this happens too often and there's no apologies in between.

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/10/03 11:35:26 PM, sluror@... writes:

<< So a once
> responsible kid forgets and is so absorbed in self
> that what seem like normal demands to us become
> overwhelming and irrationally irritating to them.

<<Exactly! When I ask if he's done something even if it's only once he
acts like I've been nagging him for hours to get it done.>>

It's instinctive.

It seems part of the leaving-home package that they start to think parents
are mentally deficient and we start to think they're totally stinky and rude.

If none of that happens it will be hard for them to leave.
I don't think it should be accentuated, just accepted.
Some parents strain it to the breaking point so the kid never even wants to
visit.

Sandra

Kathleen and David Gehrke

Barb,
That is somewhat what I meant. I believe cooling off
before you lose it is really important with teenagers.
Not that I never lost it, when they headed into these
phases we were in yelling matches and power struggle
frequently. Also I believe taking care of yourself
models to them how to do that and not allowing someone
to cuss you out or verbally abuse you sets a standard
of treatment for what is acceptable. Would you want
you kids to think it is okay to take it while a spouse
or boss calls them names? It is not abandonment to set
a standard of what is acceptable treatment of another
person, especially persons we love. I am not
suggesting to hold a grudge, just bottom line when you
can speak to me like I am a person I am all ears.Allow
them to find another way of releasing all of the
frustrations of teenagerness, something productive
like a walk or a run or a punching bag.
I really wasn't trying to offend Sharon and can really
respect her struggle because I was so unsure if we
would live through it, or if we would like each other
at the end.
I agree totally with Sandra that it is their job to
break away. Imagine a beautiful sweet smelling cuddly
infant was ready to leave home .... NOOOOO>>> By the
time my two boys left I was helping them pack. LOL .
Really I was sad, but it was time and we both felt it.

I am new here and have enjoyed everyones posts so
much. I am really at the start of our unschooling
experience with my six who are home. I have
homeschooled for the past year. With a flicker of
unschooling but was freaked out that I would be
"putting them behind" if I did not follow a
curriculum, but the more I read the more I am
convinced that this is the way to go..
Have a Great day all.
Kathleen
--- Barb Eaton <homemama@...> wrote:
> Sharon,
> I don't think that was what was meant. Kathleen
> correct me if I'm wrong.
> What I thought she meant was take a time out for
> yourself. Cool off and
> think about what you want to say instead of speaking
> in the heat of the
> moment. I know I get all wrapped up in it sometimes
> when I'm upset with my
> ds. If I back away, cool down, and think about it we
> do much better. Those
> *I* statements work well here too. Thanks for the
> reminder Kathleen.
>
>
> Barb E
> "The function of the child is to live his own life -
> not the life that his
> anxious parents think he should live."
> A S Neill
>
>
>
>
> on 7/11/03 1:26 AM, sluror@... at
> sluror@... wrote:
>
> > . So what did work was to make sure I took care of
> >> myself. No one can call me a name and expect my
> >> cooperation. Sometimes I would just walk away
> and
> >> continue with my life.
> >
> > Abandonment? yeah, but then I'll feel the guilt
> trip thing.
> > But really, I give him the why should I go out of
> my way for someone who
> > treats me so bad thing. He's a good one to curse
> you out at breakfast
> > then ask a favor by lunch. I don't want to sound
> like I'm holding a
> > grudge but this happens too often and there's no
> apologies in between.
>
>


__________________________________
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Nancy Wooton

on 7/10/03 10:26 PM, sluror@... at sluror@... wrote:


> I believe that teenagers have such
>> an internal struggle going on that in many ways they
>> revert to much younger behavior.
>
> Anyone have a cure for internal struggles?
>
> So a once
>> responsible kid forgets and is so absorbed in self
>> that what seem like normal demands to us become
>> overwhelming and irrationally irritating to them.
>
> Exactly! When I ask if he's done something even if it's only once he
> acts like I've been nagging him for hours to get it done.
>
> So
>> please take my compassion and know that this too will
>> pass.
>
> Thanks!
> My MIL told me years ago that everything is only temporary. It's so true.
> I keep going back to that for strength.
>
> He just came home and is telling me all the messed up stuff his peers are
> into. I love that he talks to me about this stuff. Sometimes life for
> these kids today looks like a nightmare to me. Talk about externally
> motivated internal struggles. I wonder how bad things between us would be
> if we couldn't / didn't talk, but I don't want to know.

You do know that teenagers are crazy, right? There's even a book about it;
see http://www.yesyourteeniscrazy.com/html/my_book.html

I haven't read it myself, but I've read about the studies of teen brains vs.
adult brains. A homeschooling friend of mine read the book, and found the
only flaw was the author doesn't know about homeschooling; he makes a big
deal about getting kids to cooperate with school. Otherwise, it's
excellent.

A teenager's brain does not function the same as an adults; they think with
their emotional centers, not their reasoning ones. You say "please take out
the trash," and teen screams "you always hated me!" This is normal.


Nancy

Barb Eaton

I wasn't out to offend anyone either. Just trying to clarify.:-) I find
it better to walk away rather than say something I may regret later.


Barb E
"He who is ashamed of asking is ashamed of learning."

- Danish Proverb


on 7/11/03 9:41 AM, Kathleen and David Gehrke at gehrkes@... wrote:

> I really wasn't trying to offend Sharon and can really
> respect her struggle because I was so unsure if we
> would live through it, or if we would like each other
> at the end.

[email protected]

> In reading your story, I can see times when I have treated someone
> else, likely my kids, like you described. I see some work that needs
> to be done in myself.

I guess I'm guilty of that also to a certain extent as is his dad. Maybe
that's where he gets it.
I do try to be more sensitive to it but I know I slip up.
My dh's dad would make him wash the car over and over again till it was
done right. What an ass!
My DH complained about this years ago but now understands why his dad did
this and is OK with it, thinks it was good for him. I still think he was
an ass.
This is an area were we don't see eye to eye.

Sharon

________________________________________________________________
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[email protected]

>Cool off and think about what you want to say instead of speaking in
the heat of the
> moment. I know I get all wrapped up in it sometimes when I'm upset
> with my ds. If I back away, cool down, and think about it we do much
better.

I agree.
Now to get him to cooperate with this concept.

This morning he asked for a $100 loan to buy a three wheel ATV from a
yard sale. He was all excited, it runs and the lady was going to hold it
for him. I took a ride to the cash machine with him but when he pulled up
to the yard sale it was gone. The woman said she sold it for $150 after
he left. Good for her! but It still wasn't right for her to say she'd
hold it and then didn't.

He told her he thought she said she'd hold it , he got the cash, and she
sucked for selling it, have a nice day , fucking bitch.

I understand he was upset but he didn't need to speak that way. He's
hating all people today, we all suck.

But this is only temporary right!? 8)

Sharon

________________________________________________________________
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Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
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[email protected]

> It's instinctive.
> It seems part of the leaving-home package that they start to think
parents
> are mentally deficient and we start to think they're totally stinky and
rude.
> If none of that happens it will be hard for them to leave.

My DH and I have talked about this before. He said if his dad didn't make
him be responsible than he wouldn't have left home. Since he had to be
responsible anyway he might as well do it on his own.

> I don't think it should be accentuated, just accepted.
> Some parents strain it to the breaking point so the kid never even
wants to visit.

I was like that with my mom, it has taken years for me to tolerate her
and I don't want that to happen here.

Sharon

________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!

Kathleen and David Gehrke

most definatly;]
--- Barb Eaton <homemama@...> wrote:
> I wasn't out to offend anyone either. Just
> trying to clarify.:-) I find
> it better to walk away rather than say something I
> may regret later.
>
>
> Barb E
> "He who is ashamed of asking is ashamed of
> learning."
>
> - Danish Proverb
>
>
> on 7/11/03 9:41 AM, Kathleen and David Gehrke at
> gehrkes@... wrote:
>
> > I really wasn't trying to offend Sharon and can
> really
> > respect her struggle because I was so unsure if we
> > would live through it, or if we would like each
> other
> > at the end.
>
>


__________________________________
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[email protected]

Kathleen, thanks for your post I truly feel that you understand.
I want my children to be nice and at the same time want them to be strong
enough not to take crap from people. The strong part is coming easy.
I fear we'll end up hating each other and it's so stupid cause the power
struggles are sometimes about things that won't mean a thing tomorrow.
BTW my son has a drum set and although it might drive the rest of the
people in our home nuts at times I tell everyone to let him pound on them
when he gets angry. He does use them at times to take out his
frustrations. I figure better the drums than us.

Sharon


On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:41:27 -0700 (PDT) Kathleen and David Gehrke
<gehrkes@...> writes:
> Barb,
> That is somewhat what I meant. I believe cooling off
> before you lose it is really important with teenagers.
> Not that I never lost it, when they headed into these
> phases we were in yelling matches and power struggle
> frequently. Also I believe taking care of yourself
> models to them how to do that and not allowing someone
> to cuss you out or verbally abuse you sets a standard
> of treatment for what is acceptable. Would you want
> you kids to think it is okay to take it while a spouse
> or boss calls them names? It is not abandonment to set
> a standard of what is acceptable treatment of another
> person, especially persons we love. I am not
> suggesting to hold a grudge, just bottom line when you
> can speak to me like I am a person I am all ears.Allow
> them to find another way of releasing all of the
> frustrations of teenagerness, something productive
> like a walk or a run or a punching bag.
> I really wasn't trying to offend Sharon and can really
> respect her struggle because I was so unsure if we
> would live through it, or if we would like each other
> at the end.
> I agree totally with Sandra that it is their job to
> break away. Imagine a beautiful sweet smelling cuddly
> infant was ready to leave home .... NOOOOO>>> By the
> time my two boys left I was helping them pack. LOL .
> Really I was sad, but it was time and we both felt it.
>
> I am new here and have enjoyed everyones posts so
> much. I am really at the start of our unschooling
> experience with my six who are home. I have
> homeschooled for the past year. With a flicker of
> unschooling but was freaked out that I would be
> "putting them behind" if I did not follow a
> curriculum, but the more I read the more I am
> convinced that this is the way to go..
> Have a Great day all.
> Kathleen

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LOL, I'll have to check that out!

Thanks,
Sharon


> You do know that teenagers are crazy, right? There's even a book
> about it;
> see http://www.yesyourteeniscrazy.com/html/my_book.html
>
> I haven't read it myself, but I've read about the studies of teen
> brains vs.
> adult brains. A homeschooling friend of mine read the book, and
> found the
> only flaw was the author doesn't know about homeschooling; he makes
> a big
> deal about getting kids to cooperate with school. Otherwise, it's
> excellent.
>
> A teenager's brain does not function the same as an adults; they
> think with
> their emotional centers, not their reasoning ones. You say "please
> take out
> the trash," and teen screams "you always hated me!" This is
> normal.
>
>Nancy

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In a message dated 7/11/03 1:21:55 PM, sluror@... writes:

<< He told her he thought she said she'd hold it , he got the cash, and she
sucked for selling it, have a nice day , fucking bitch.

I understand he was upset but he didn't need to speak that way. He's
hating all people today, we all suck.

But this is only temporary right!? 8) >>

Maybe not. I can understand him being frustrated and even needing to grieve
a deal like that. Maybe he should stay at the garage sale next time while you
go and get money.

But if he thinks it's okay to talk to people that way, you might suggest that
good things will NOT be scheduled to come to him until he's a good person.

If she would have felt guilty about disappointing him, she probably felt GLAD
after he called her a name. In the final tally, he lost goodness and
potential.

I feel really bad for him. Honestly, though, most people who say they'll
come back don't.

Sandra

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Sharon wrote: My dh's dad would make him wash the car over and over again till it was
done right. What an ass!

Raine replies: Yes, my husband's father would take the dishes (not washed properly) outside and throw them! When my sister-in-law left her curling iron plugged in, he layed it on her arm to show that it was hot enough to start a fire!! My beloved husband is not one whit like his dad, but he does struggle at times. So, I can relate. Parenting, much like living, is a never-ending learning process, and some of us start out at a disadvantage, unfortunately.
Shalom,
Raine
**Praise youth and it will prosper.
Irish Proverb**

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Maybe he should stay at the garage sale next time
> while you
> go and get money.

I wasn't garage sailing with him. He called home to ask for the $ then
showed up here a couple minutes later. In the past when he saw something
at a GS and we were together he did stay behind to guard the item while I
ran to the bank. Works much better that way. I guess he could have given
me directions to where he was but...shoulda ,coulda, woulda.. it doesn't
matter now.

> But if he thinks it's okay to talk to people that way, you might
> suggest that
> good things will NOT be scheduled to come to him until he's a good
> person.
>
> If she would have felt guilty about disappointing him, she probably
> felt GLAD
> after he called her a name. In the final tally, he lost goodness
> and
> potential.

I'm not sure the woman heard the worst part of what he said because he
was walking around the other side of the car. I hope she didn't but I did
hear it and I don't like him talking that way to anyone or within earshot
of anyone.

I've seen him turn sour before many times when things don't go his way.

Never mind the woman being glad, I'm glad he doesn't get everything he
wants. Not that I like to see him suffer or want to deal with the bad
attitude but I don't think he deserves to get everything when he's being
such a punk.

> I feel really bad for him. Honestly, though, most people who say
> they'll
> come back don't.
>
> Sandra

I don't have yard sales but I'm sure there are many people that don't
come back. It's too bad that he was one that did really mean it when he
said he was coming back. I know though, and I told him later, that he
would have done the same thing if someone offered him more $ for
something. It doesn't make it right but it's reality.

Sharon

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I've learned from my DH's experience with is dad that I didn't want to be
that way. If it's something important, I kinda sneak around after no one
is looking to fix things if someone else tried but didn't get right. I
know my DH gets discouraged easily now and won't even try if he knows
he'll get it wrong. I don't want to discourage my children that way.

Shhh, don't tell em.

Eww, the curling iron thing is just sick. A friend of mine had a brother
that had to touch the hot stove for smoking or playing with matches, I
forgot what his crime was but it's just not right. Parents!

Sharon



> Sharon wrote: My dh's dad would make him wash the car over and over
> again till it was
> done right. What an ass!
>
> Raine replies: Yes, my husband's father would take the dishes (not
> washed properly) outside and throw them! When my sister-in-law left
> her curling iron plugged in, he layed it on her arm to show that it
> was hot enough to start a fire!! My beloved husband is not one whit
> like his dad, but he does struggle at times. So, I can relate.
> Parenting, much like living, is a never-ending learning process, and
> some of us start out at a disadvantage, unfortunately.
> Shalom,
> Raine
> **Praise youth and it will prosper.
> Irish Proverb**

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Pamela Sorooshian

Sharon - it is totally normal - for some of our kids and not for
others. Don't compare, because you'll find out that there are kids who
NEVER act like this and you'll start wondering what you did wrong, etc.

Just be his mom and be with him as he is now. One thing I can reassure
you about - it doesn't mean he'll always be like this so tell yourself
to stop imagining him as a 25 yo still acting this way.

Read Parent -Teen Breakthrough : The Relationship Approach by Myra
Kirshenbaum and Charles Foster asap -- it will REALLY help you get a
handle on how to live through this time and come out the other end with
a great relationship.

-pam

On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 12:17 PM, sluror@... wrote:

> Kathleen, thanks for your post I truly feel that you understand.
> I want my children to be nice and at the same time want them to be
> strong
> enough not to take crap from people. The strong part is coming easy.
> I fear we'll end up hating each other and it's so stupid cause the
> power
> struggles are sometimes about things that won't mean a thing tomorrow.
> BTW my son has a drum set and although it might drive the rest of the
> people in our home nuts at times I tell everyone to let him pound on
> them
> when he gets angry. He does use them at times to take out his
> frustrations. I figure better the drums than us.
>
> Sharon
>
>
> On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:41:27 -0700 (PDT) Kathleen and David Gehrke
> <gehrkes@...> writes:
>> Barb,
>> That is somewhat what I meant. I believe cooling off
>> before you lose it is really important with teenagers.
>> Not that I never lost it, when they headed into these
>> phases we were in yelling matches and power struggle
>> frequently. Also I believe taking care of yourself
>> models to them how to do that and not allowing someone
>> to cuss you out or verbally abuse you sets a standard
>> of treatment for what is acceptable. Would you want
>> you kids to think it is okay to take it while a spouse
>> or boss calls them names? It is not abandonment to set
>> a standard of what is acceptable treatment of another
>> person, especially persons we love. I am not
>> suggesting to hold a grudge, just bottom line when you
>> can speak to me like I am a person I am all ears.Allow
>> them to find another way of releasing all of the
>> frustrations of teenagerness, something productive
>> like a walk or a run or a punching bag.
>> I really wasn't trying to offend Sharon and can really
>> respect her struggle because I was so unsure if we
>> would live through it, or if we would like each other
>> at the end.
>> I agree totally with Sandra that it is their job to
>> break away. Imagine a beautiful sweet smelling cuddly
>> infant was ready to leave home .... NOOOOO>>> By the
>> time my two boys left I was helping them pack. LOL .
>> Really I was sad, but it was time and we both felt it.
>>
>> I am new here and have enjoyed everyones posts so
>> much. I am really at the start of our unschooling
>> experience with my six who are home. I have
>> homeschooled for the past year. With a flicker of
>> unschooling but was freaked out that I would be
>> "putting them behind" if I did not follow a
>> curriculum, but the more I read the more I am
>> convinced that this is the way to go..
>> Have a Great day all.
>> Kathleen
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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In a message dated 7/14/2003 7:33:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
pamsoroosh@... writes:
> Just be his mom and be with him as he is now. One thing I can reassure
> you about - it doesn't mean he'll always be like this so tell yourself
> to stop imagining him as a 25 yo still acting this way.

And try REALLY Hard and honestly to remember your own teenhood. Were you
sweet and compliant every day? <G>

I think it may depend on the situation. Sometimes I could be animated and
funny and sweet---and moments later surly and quiet. I see Cameron fluctuating
too. But he is less intense than I ever was.

Relax and enjoy it! You'll miss it when it's gone! <G>

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lucie Caunter

I have two 16 years old. I found the book : "Real Boys' Voices", by
William S. Pollack, with Todd Shuster (isbn 0 14 10.0294 8 ) to be
helpful. If just to remind me that there are tremendous pressures from
the society at large on adolescents. As a teen , I remember thinking
all the time, about how I didn't want to be like my parents, or did
want to be like my parents ( It was never exactly clear cut), wanted to
imitated some adults but not others... and some days was just plain
confused and overload... It's part of growing up. Part of you realized
you can only be yourself and part of you is trying to define that
self. I am comfortable with who I am today, but that book reminded me
that there was a time when I wasn't so confortable and sure of myself.
And to be there for my sons.

Lucie, Ottawa, Canada

Pamela Sorooshian wrote:

>Sharon - it is totally normal - for some of our kids and not for
>others. Don't compare, because you'll find out that there are kids who
>NEVER act like this and you'll start wondering what you did wrong, etc.
>
>Just be his mom and be with him as he is now. One thing I can reassure
>you about - it doesn't mean he'll always be like this so tell yourself
>to stop imagining him as a 25 yo still acting this way.
>
>Read Parent -Teen Breakthrough : The Relationship Approach by Myra
>Kirshenbaum and Charles Foster asap -- it will REALLY help you get a
>handle on how to live through this time and come out the other end with
>a great relationship.
>
>-pam
>
>
>
>

[email protected]

Thanks, I'll check that out.

Sharon


Lucie Caunter writes:
> I have two 16 years old. I found the book : "Real Boys' Voices", by
> William S. Pollack, with Todd Shuster (isbn 0 14 10.0294 8 ) to be
> helpful. If just to remind me that there are tremendous pressures
> from the society at large on adolescents.

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On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:29:54 EDT kbcdlovejo@... writes:

> And try REALLY Hard and honestly to remember your own teenhood. Were
> you
> sweet and compliant every day? <G>

You don't want to know! 8)

> Relax and enjoy it! You'll miss it when it's gone! <G>
>
> ~Kelly

So true!
I remember when my kids reached the age where they started going out on
their own more.
I didn't know what to do with myself.
I adjusted.

Sharon

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Pamela Sorooshian writes:
> Sharon - it is totally normal - for some of our kids and not for
> others. Don't compare,

Easier said than done. It's normal to compare, they want me too. Of
course they want me to compare them to their peers who've gotten into
deeper doo doo than them. 8)

My DH compares them to us at that age. Makes our kids look angelic!


> to stop imagining him as a 25 yo still acting this way.

Oh geez, I hope not.


> Read Parent -Teen Breakthrough : The Relationship Approach by Myra
> Kirshenbaum and Charles Foster asap -- it will REALLY help you get a
> handle on how to live through this time and come out the other end
> with a great relationship.
>
> -pam


Thanks, I've got a lot of reading to do.

Sharon

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