Re: Girl Scouts
Minninger
Hi!
I am a Girl Scout leader, and I have not always been
happy with the Girl Scout Councils. They say they
want girls to learn leadership and independence, but
then they have the girls fundraise for the Council.
Girl Scouts keep anywhere from 30 cents to 50 cents a
box for the cookies they sell. Not exactly a great
business deal. Selling cookies is a tremendous amount
of work...as well as a tremendous liability...because
you have to send Council the money on the due date
whether the troop sold the boxes or not. They want
you to order hundreds extra and do booths, but
sometimes you have good sales and sometimes you don't.
The Councils also have so many rules and regulations.
Whew! They can overwhelm leaders at times. Ah hem.
My assistant and I do break quite a few though at
times! ; )
I am having a senior's moment....the woman who did the
reptile show for our homeschool group...can't remember
her name, but anyway, she wanted to display and
discuss venomous and non-venomous snakes at a Girl
Scout workshop for leaders. She said she didn't want
to take up anyone's time. But people could've looked
at them during the breaks. They told her that snakes
weren't allowed at the camp. She told me that she
couldn't help laughing and asked the Council if they
thought there weren't any snakes at the camp. They
told her that snakes were too traumatic for many women
and girls. In fact, that Council doesn't want you to
say snake if you see one. You have to call it in on
the walkie-talkie and say, "I have spotted Mr.
No-Shoulders." The reptile woman...smile...I can't
stand it when I can't remember people's names... said
she wouldn't have believed it if she hadn't heard it
herself. She said instead of teaching the leaders
about snakes, and there are plenty at the camp, the
leaders learned how to make a campfire using candy. I
laughed hysterically because we did the same thing at
my training!! I live in the Low Country, so I would
have loved to have been up close with a diamondback
rattler so I would know what it looked like in case my
troop and I come across one.
A service unit on another occasion had asked her to do
workshops for their weekend camp for girls. She said
she thought it would be better if she taught the
cadettes and then they could teach the other girls.
She would be more of a mentor. She said she had no
desire to be the sage on the stage. She thought this
was about girls and leadership. Apparently not!
<grin>
Well, the leaders of the service unit decided to call
the weekend Creepy Crawly Thangs. She said that she
told them that she had hoped that she could talk with
the girls before a title was picked, but they said no.
She bowed out because she said a lot of folks in our
state kill everything that moves as it is...and if
something is creepy and crawly and a THANG, then they
really will kill it. She said she knows that she will
never get asked to do anything again.
All this to say that you gotta remember that if you do
Girl Scouts that there are headaches too. My
headaches were more around the cookie sales. We sold
so many boxes and got so little money back. The other
thing is that the paperwork is voluminous. Truly
voluminous. Then, even if your girls vote on a field
trip or activity, then some Councils insist everything
goes through them. There can't be much spontaneity
because there are deadlines and usually they are a
month to 3 weeks in advance of the event.
My Council prefers that troops be all the same age.
This is very different from Boy Scouts where the older
boys can role model and teach the younger ones.
My assistant and I always let our girls decide stuff.
If someone doesn't want to do something, we help them
find the resource people or whatever to do what they
want. There aren't as many cadette and Senior troops
as there are Brownies and Juniors. Girls won't stay
in an organization that tells them what to do all the
time or puts limits on everything. My troop wants me
to convert our troop to a Boy Scout Venturers group
when they all turn 14.
There was something else I was going to say...I think
I need an herb for memory!! Oh, I know. Some
Councils have their own political agenda. I am pretty
liberal myself, but I am not into trying to convince
anyone else to believe what I believe or what Council
believes. They sent out this letter that encouraged
us not to support Bush. I don't think it is right for
me to express my views on Presidential candidates.
Now I wouldn't be against having the girls discuss how
one evaluates candidates. This is just one example.
There were other political issues that are
controversial that I avoid...like abortion. I don't
want to tell my girls what to think. I would rather
teach them how to evaluate positions.
Well, that is my two cents...or was that ten?...on
Girl Scouting!
Rachel Minninger
__________________________________
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SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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I am a Girl Scout leader, and I have not always been
happy with the Girl Scout Councils. They say they
want girls to learn leadership and independence, but
then they have the girls fundraise for the Council.
Girl Scouts keep anywhere from 30 cents to 50 cents a
box for the cookies they sell. Not exactly a great
business deal. Selling cookies is a tremendous amount
of work...as well as a tremendous liability...because
you have to send Council the money on the due date
whether the troop sold the boxes or not. They want
you to order hundreds extra and do booths, but
sometimes you have good sales and sometimes you don't.
The Councils also have so many rules and regulations.
Whew! They can overwhelm leaders at times. Ah hem.
My assistant and I do break quite a few though at
times! ; )
I am having a senior's moment....the woman who did the
reptile show for our homeschool group...can't remember
her name, but anyway, she wanted to display and
discuss venomous and non-venomous snakes at a Girl
Scout workshop for leaders. She said she didn't want
to take up anyone's time. But people could've looked
at them during the breaks. They told her that snakes
weren't allowed at the camp. She told me that she
couldn't help laughing and asked the Council if they
thought there weren't any snakes at the camp. They
told her that snakes were too traumatic for many women
and girls. In fact, that Council doesn't want you to
say snake if you see one. You have to call it in on
the walkie-talkie and say, "I have spotted Mr.
No-Shoulders." The reptile woman...smile...I can't
stand it when I can't remember people's names... said
she wouldn't have believed it if she hadn't heard it
herself. She said instead of teaching the leaders
about snakes, and there are plenty at the camp, the
leaders learned how to make a campfire using candy. I
laughed hysterically because we did the same thing at
my training!! I live in the Low Country, so I would
have loved to have been up close with a diamondback
rattler so I would know what it looked like in case my
troop and I come across one.
A service unit on another occasion had asked her to do
workshops for their weekend camp for girls. She said
she thought it would be better if she taught the
cadettes and then they could teach the other girls.
She would be more of a mentor. She said she had no
desire to be the sage on the stage. She thought this
was about girls and leadership. Apparently not!
<grin>
Well, the leaders of the service unit decided to call
the weekend Creepy Crawly Thangs. She said that she
told them that she had hoped that she could talk with
the girls before a title was picked, but they said no.
She bowed out because she said a lot of folks in our
state kill everything that moves as it is...and if
something is creepy and crawly and a THANG, then they
really will kill it. She said she knows that she will
never get asked to do anything again.
All this to say that you gotta remember that if you do
Girl Scouts that there are headaches too. My
headaches were more around the cookie sales. We sold
so many boxes and got so little money back. The other
thing is that the paperwork is voluminous. Truly
voluminous. Then, even if your girls vote on a field
trip or activity, then some Councils insist everything
goes through them. There can't be much spontaneity
because there are deadlines and usually they are a
month to 3 weeks in advance of the event.
My Council prefers that troops be all the same age.
This is very different from Boy Scouts where the older
boys can role model and teach the younger ones.
My assistant and I always let our girls decide stuff.
If someone doesn't want to do something, we help them
find the resource people or whatever to do what they
want. There aren't as many cadette and Senior troops
as there are Brownies and Juniors. Girls won't stay
in an organization that tells them what to do all the
time or puts limits on everything. My troop wants me
to convert our troop to a Boy Scout Venturers group
when they all turn 14.
There was something else I was going to say...I think
I need an herb for memory!! Oh, I know. Some
Councils have their own political agenda. I am pretty
liberal myself, but I am not into trying to convince
anyone else to believe what I believe or what Council
believes. They sent out this letter that encouraged
us not to support Bush. I don't think it is right for
me to express my views on Presidential candidates.
Now I wouldn't be against having the girls discuss how
one evaluates candidates. This is just one example.
There were other political issues that are
controversial that I avoid...like abortion. I don't
want to tell my girls what to think. I would rather
teach them how to evaluate positions.
Well, that is my two cents...or was that ten?...on
Girl Scouting!
Rachel Minninger
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/15/03 8:57:44 AM, steveminninger@... writes:
<< They
told her that snakes were too traumatic for many women
and girls. In fact, that Council doesn't want you to
say snake if you see one. You have to call it in on
the walkie-talkie and say, "I have spotted Mr.
No-Shoulders." >>
Sounds like one of the council members has a snake phobia and a projection
problem! <g>
Holly was in girl scouts for one short season and didn't like it. She has
wanted to get involved again, and I tried for three weeks of phone tag (one
sided, all my calls) to get in touch with the best candidate to hook us up in our
neighborhood with a (possibly) non-church-based and non-schooly troop. Summer
started, and I figured it's not the best time to join, and I was irritated
with the lack of contact. I'll try again in fall.
I should just put an ad in the paper and say "I would like to be contacted by
a really intelligent girl scout leader who has e-mail and no prejudice
against homeschoolers."
Hell, I should just send a postcard to the council office and say that. <g>
Sandra
<< They
told her that snakes were too traumatic for many women
and girls. In fact, that Council doesn't want you to
say snake if you see one. You have to call it in on
the walkie-talkie and say, "I have spotted Mr.
No-Shoulders." >>
Sounds like one of the council members has a snake phobia and a projection
problem! <g>
Holly was in girl scouts for one short season and didn't like it. She has
wanted to get involved again, and I tried for three weeks of phone tag (one
sided, all my calls) to get in touch with the best candidate to hook us up in our
neighborhood with a (possibly) non-church-based and non-schooly troop. Summer
started, and I figured it's not the best time to join, and I was irritated
with the lack of contact. I'll try again in fall.
I should just put an ad in the paper and say "I would like to be contacted by
a really intelligent girl scout leader who has e-mail and no prejudice
against homeschoolers."
Hell, I should just send a postcard to the council office and say that. <g>
Sandra
Joylyn
Holly can always join our troop. We have a few girls who travel quite a
ways to be in my nonreligious non schoolie troop, but HOlly would get
the longest distance award.
All troops are different and a troop is only as good as the leaders.
And yes, there are sometimes conflicts with council or sumanagers. I
know.
Joylyn
SandraDodd@... wrote:
ways to be in my nonreligious non schoolie troop, but HOlly would get
the longest distance award.
All troops are different and a troop is only as good as the leaders.
And yes, there are sometimes conflicts with council or sumanagers. I
know.
Joylyn
SandraDodd@... wrote:
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> In a message dated 6/15/03 8:57:44 AM, steveminninger@... writes:
>
> << They
> told her that snakes were too traumatic for many women
> and girls. In fact, that Council doesn't want you to
> say snake if you see one. You have to call it in on
> the walkie-talkie and say, "I have spotted Mr.
> No-Shoulders." >>
>
> Sounds like one of the council members has a snake phobia and a
> projection
> problem! <g>
>
> Holly was in girl scouts for one short season and didn't like it. She
> has
> wanted to get involved again, and I tried for three weeks of phone tag
> (one
> sided, all my calls) to get in touch with the best candidate to hook
> us up in our
> neighborhood with a (possibly) non-church-based and non-schooly
> troop. Summer
> started, and I figured it's not the best time to join, and I was
> irritated
> with the lack of contact. I'll try again in fall.
>
> I should just put an ad in the paper and say "I would like to be
> contacted by
> a really intelligent girl scout leader who has e-mail and no prejudice
> against homeschoolers."
>
> Hell, I should just send a postcard to the council office and say
> that. <g>
>
> Sandra
>
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Joylyn
About fund raising for the council, some of that money goes back to
troops in different ways. For instance, it covers SAS money, for girls
who can't pay to join. It also covers other scholarship, including
camping ones. Some troops in our area use those scholarships a lot.
THere is also money available for uniforms, supplies, etc. from the
council, and the paperwork isn't so bad. I do have compl,aints about
girl scouts. I think they are less family friendly than they could be,
at a council level, but in our troop we are countering that. My service
unit manager is a pain in the ass, and doesn't like me at all (she is
extremely catholic, extremely schooling, extremely following all the
rules no matter what) and this is causing lots of problems. I am trying
to figure out how to solve this because it simply isn't working.
Joylyn
Minninger wrote:
troops in different ways. For instance, it covers SAS money, for girls
who can't pay to join. It also covers other scholarship, including
camping ones. Some troops in our area use those scholarships a lot.
THere is also money available for uniforms, supplies, etc. from the
council, and the paperwork isn't so bad. I do have compl,aints about
girl scouts. I think they are less family friendly than they could be,
at a council level, but in our troop we are countering that. My service
unit manager is a pain in the ass, and doesn't like me at all (she is
extremely catholic, extremely schooling, extremely following all the
rules no matter what) and this is causing lots of problems. I am trying
to figure out how to solve this because it simply isn't working.
Joylyn
Minninger wrote:
> Hi![Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I am a Girl Scout leader, and I have not always been
> happy with the Girl Scout Councils. They say they
> want girls to learn leadership and independence, but
> then they have the girls fundraise for the Council.
> Girl Scouts keep anywhere from 30 cents to 50 cents a
> box for the cookies they sell. Not exactly a great
> business deal. Selling cookies is a tremendous amount
> of work...as well as a tremendous liability...because
> you have to send Council the money on the due date
> whether the troop sold the boxes or not. They want
> you to order hundreds extra and do booths, but
> sometimes you have good sales and sometimes you don't.
>
> The Councils also have so many rules and regulations.
> Whew! They can overwhelm leaders at times. Ah hem.
> My assistant and I do break quite a few though at
> times! ; )
>
> I am having a senior's moment....the woman who did the
> reptile show for our homeschool group...can't remember
> her name, but anyway, she wanted to display and
> discuss venomous and non-venomous snakes at a Girl
> Scout workshop for leaders. She said she didn't want
> to take up anyone's time. But people could've looked
> at them during the breaks. They told her that snakes
> weren't allowed at the camp. She told me that she
> couldn't help laughing and asked the Council if they
> thought there weren't any snakes at the camp. They
> told her that snakes were too traumatic for many women
> and girls. In fact, that Council doesn't want you to
> say snake if you see one. You have to call it in on
> the walkie-talkie and say, "I have spotted Mr.
> No-Shoulders." The reptile woman...smile...I can't
> stand it when I can't remember people's names... said
> she wouldn't have believed it if she hadn't heard it
> herself. She said instead of teaching the leaders
> about snakes, and there are plenty at the camp, the
> leaders learned how to make a campfire using candy. I
> laughed hysterically because we did the same thing at
> my training!! I live in the Low Country, so I would
> have loved to have been up close with a diamondback
> rattler so I would know what it looked like in case my
> troop and I come across one.
>
> A service unit on another occasion had asked her to do
> workshops for their weekend camp for girls. She said
> she thought it would be better if she taught the
> cadettes and then they could teach the other girls.
> She would be more of a mentor. She said she had no
> desire to be the sage on the stage. She thought this
> was about girls and leadership. Apparently not!
> <grin>
>
> Well, the leaders of the service unit decided to call
> the weekend Creepy Crawly Thangs. She said that she
> told them that she had hoped that she could talk with
> the girls before a title was picked, but they said no.
> She bowed out because she said a lot of folks in our
> state kill everything that moves as it is...and if
> something is creepy and crawly and a THANG, then they
> really will kill it. She said she knows that she will
> never get asked to do anything again.
>
> All this to say that you gotta remember that if you do
> Girl Scouts that there are headaches too. My
> headaches were more around the cookie sales. We sold
> so many boxes and got so little money back. The other
> thing is that the paperwork is voluminous. Truly
> voluminous. Then, even if your girls vote on a field
> trip or activity, then some Councils insist everything
> goes through them. There can't be much spontaneity
> because there are deadlines and usually they are a
> month to 3 weeks in advance of the event.
>
> My Council prefers that troops be all the same age.
> This is very different from Boy Scouts where the older
> boys can role model and teach the younger ones.
>
> My assistant and I always let our girls decide stuff.
> If someone doesn't want to do something, we help them
> find the resource people or whatever to do what they
> want. There aren't as many cadette and Senior troops
> as there are Brownies and Juniors. Girls won't stay
> in an organization that tells them what to do all the
> time or puts limits on everything. My troop wants me
> to convert our troop to a Boy Scout Venturers group
> when they all turn 14.
>
> There was something else I was going to say...I think
> I need an herb for memory!! Oh, I know. Some
> Councils have their own political agenda. I am pretty
> liberal myself, but I am not into trying to convince
> anyone else to believe what I believe or what Council
> believes. They sent out this letter that encouraged
> us not to support Bush. I don't think it is right for
> me to express my views on Presidential candidates.
> Now I wouldn't be against having the girls discuss how
> one evaluates candidates. This is just one example.
> There were other political issues that are
> controversial that I avoid...like abortion. I don't
> want to tell my girls what to think. I would rather
> teach them how to evaluate positions.
>
> Well, that is my two cents...or was that ten?...on
> Girl Scouting!
>
> Rachel Minninger
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Pamela Sorooshian
Chance service units. I've changed a couple of times.
(West Garden Grove SU has a fantastic su manager who LOVED our
homeschool troup of 25 girls from 5 to 14 years old. )
-pam
(West Garden Grove SU has a fantastic su manager who LOVED our
homeschool troup of 25 girls from 5 to 14 years old. )
-pam
On Sunday, June 15, 2003, at 08:53 AM, Joylyn wrote:
> I am trying
> to figure out how to solve this because it simply isn't working.
>
Pamela Sorooshian
Bigger problems with girl scouts are on the horizon.
If you're only involved with younger girls, you may not have seriously
looked at the new program for older girls, Studio2B, but you should. I
have been involved with girl scouts my whole life - as a scout myself
and through Daisies to Seniors with my older girls. I would avoid
scouts now, if I was just getting started - because all they have to
look forward to is Studio2B and, not to pull any punches, I think it
really really really REALLY STINKS.
Look at www.studio2b.org for a glimpse of what is coming to,
eventually, replace cadette and senior girl scouting.
-pam
If you're only involved with younger girls, you may not have seriously
looked at the new program for older girls, Studio2B, but you should. I
have been involved with girl scouts my whole life - as a scout myself
and through Daisies to Seniors with my older girls. I would avoid
scouts now, if I was just getting started - because all they have to
look forward to is Studio2B and, not to pull any punches, I think it
really really really REALLY STINKS.
Look at www.studio2b.org for a glimpse of what is coming to,
eventually, replace cadette and senior girl scouting.
-pam
On Sunday, June 15, 2003, at 08:53 AM, Joylyn wrote:
> About fund raising for the council, some of that money goes back to
> troops in different ways. For instance, it covers SAS money, for girls
> who can't pay to join. It also covers other scholarship, including
> camping ones. Some troops in our area use those scholarships a lot.
> THere is also money available for uniforms, supplies, etc. from the
> council, and the paperwork isn't so bad. I do have compl,aints about
> girl scouts. I think they are less family friendly than they could be,
> at a council level, but in our troop we are countering that. My
> service
> unit manager is a pain in the ass, and doesn't like me at all (she is
> extremely catholic, extremely schooling, extremely following all the
> rules no matter what) and this is causing lots of problems. I am trying
> to figure out how to solve this because it simply isn't working.
>
> Joylyn
>
> Minninger wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>> I am a Girl Scout leader, and I have not always been
>> happy with the Girl Scout Councils. They say they
>> want girls to learn leadership and independence, but
>> then they have the girls fundraise for the Council.
>> Girl Scouts keep anywhere from 30 cents to 50 cents a
>> box for the cookies they sell. Not exactly a great
>> business deal. Selling cookies is a tremendous amount
>> of work...as well as a tremendous liability...because
>> you have to send Council the money on the due date
>> whether the troop sold the boxes or not. They want
>> you to order hundreds extra and do booths, but
>> sometimes you have good sales and sometimes you don't.
>>
>> The Councils also have so many rules and regulations.
>> Whew! They can overwhelm leaders at times. Ah hem.
>> My assistant and I do break quite a few though at
>> times! ; )
>>
>> I am having a senior's moment....the woman who did the
>> reptile show for our homeschool group...can't remember
>> her name, but anyway, she wanted to display and
>> discuss venomous and non-venomous snakes at a Girl
>> Scout workshop for leaders. She said she didn't want
>> to take up anyone's time. But people could've looked
>> at them during the breaks. They told her that snakes
>> weren't allowed at the camp. She told me that she
>> couldn't help laughing and asked the Council if they
>> thought there weren't any snakes at the camp. They
>> told her that snakes were too traumatic for many women
>> and girls. In fact, that Council doesn't want you to
>> say snake if you see one. You have to call it in on
>> the walkie-talkie and say, "I have spotted Mr.
>> No-Shoulders." The reptile woman...smile...I can't
>> stand it when I can't remember people's names... said
>> she wouldn't have believed it if she hadn't heard it
>> herself. She said instead of teaching the leaders
>> about snakes, and there are plenty at the camp, the
>> leaders learned how to make a campfire using candy. I
>> laughed hysterically because we did the same thing at
>> my training!! I live in the Low Country, so I would
>> have loved to have been up close with a diamondback
>> rattler so I would know what it looked like in case my
>> troop and I come across one.
>>
>> A service unit on another occasion had asked her to do
>> workshops for their weekend camp for girls. She said
>> she thought it would be better if she taught the
>> cadettes and then they could teach the other girls.
>> She would be more of a mentor. She said she had no
>> desire to be the sage on the stage. She thought this
>> was about girls and leadership. Apparently not!
>> <grin>
>>
>> Well, the leaders of the service unit decided to call
>> the weekend Creepy Crawly Thangs. She said that she
>> told them that she had hoped that she could talk with
>> the girls before a title was picked, but they said no.
>> She bowed out because she said a lot of folks in our
>> state kill everything that moves as it is...and if
>> something is creepy and crawly and a THANG, then they
>> really will kill it. She said she knows that she will
>> never get asked to do anything again.
>>
>> All this to say that you gotta remember that if you do
>> Girl Scouts that there are headaches too. My
>> headaches were more around the cookie sales. We sold
>> so many boxes and got so little money back. The other
>> thing is that the paperwork is voluminous. Truly
>> voluminous. Then, even if your girls vote on a field
>> trip or activity, then some Councils insist everything
>> goes through them. There can't be much spontaneity
>> because there are deadlines and usually they are a
>> month to 3 weeks in advance of the event.
>>
>> My Council prefers that troops be all the same age.
>> This is very different from Boy Scouts where the older
>> boys can role model and teach the younger ones.
>>
>> My assistant and I always let our girls decide stuff.
>> If someone doesn't want to do something, we help them
>> find the resource people or whatever to do what they
>> want. There aren't as many cadette and Senior troops
>> as there are Brownies and Juniors. Girls won't stay
>> in an organization that tells them what to do all the
>> time or puts limits on everything. My troop wants me
>> to convert our troop to a Boy Scout Venturers group
>> when they all turn 14.
>>
>> There was something else I was going to say...I think
>> I need an herb for memory!! Oh, I know. Some
>> Councils have their own political agenda. I am pretty
>> liberal myself, but I am not into trying to convince
>> anyone else to believe what I believe or what Council
>> believes. They sent out this letter that encouraged
>> us not to support Bush. I don't think it is right for
>> me to express my views on Presidential candidates.
>> Now I wouldn't be against having the girls discuss how
>> one evaluates candidates. This is just one example.
>> There were other political issues that are
>> controversial that I avoid...like abortion. I don't
>> want to tell my girls what to think. I would rather
>> teach them how to evaluate positions.
>>
>> Well, that is my two cents...or was that ten?...on
>> Girl Scouting!
>>
>> Rachel Minninger
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Joylyn
Yes, Rosanna andI were talking yesterday at dinner about this and she
told me a bunch andI am not pleased. Can't we complain? Loudly?
Joylyn
Pamela Sorooshian wrote:
told me a bunch andI am not pleased. Can't we complain? Loudly?
Joylyn
Pamela Sorooshian wrote:
> Bigger problems with girl scouts are on the horizon.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> If you're only involved with younger girls, you may not have seriously
> looked at the new program for older girls, Studio2B, but you should. I
> have been involved with girl scouts my whole life - as a scout myself
> and through Daisies to Seniors with my older girls. I would avoid
> scouts now, if I was just getting started - because all they have to
> look forward to is Studio2B and, not to pull any punches, I think it
> really really really REALLY STINKS.
>
> Look at www.studio2b.org for a glimpse of what is coming to,
> eventually, replace cadette and senior girl scouting.
>
> -pam
>
>
> On Sunday, June 15, 2003, at 08:53 AM, Joylyn wrote:
>
> > About fund raising for the council, some of that money goes back to
> > troops in different ways. For instance, it covers SAS money, for girls
> > who can't pay to join. It also covers other scholarship, including
> > camping ones. Some troops in our area use those scholarships a lot.
> > THere is also money available for uniforms, supplies, etc. from the
> > council, and the paperwork isn't so bad. I do have compl,aints about
> > girl scouts. I think they are less family friendly than they could be,
> > at a council level, but in our troop we are countering that. My
> > service
> > unit manager is a pain in the ass, and doesn't like me at all (she is
> > extremely catholic, extremely schooling, extremely following all the
> > rules no matter what) and this is causing lots of problems. I am trying
> > to figure out how to solve this because it simply isn't working.
> >
> > Joylyn
> >
> > Minninger wrote:
> >
> >> Hi!
> >> I am a Girl Scout leader, and I have not always been
> >> happy with the Girl Scout Councils. They say they
> >> want girls to learn leadership and independence, but
> >> then they have the girls fundraise for the Council.
> >> Girl Scouts keep anywhere from 30 cents to 50 cents a
> >> box for the cookies they sell. Not exactly a great
> >> business deal. Selling cookies is a tremendous amount
> >> of work...as well as a tremendous liability...because
> >> you have to send Council the money on the due date
> >> whether the troop sold the boxes or not. They want
> >> you to order hundreds extra and do booths, but
> >> sometimes you have good sales and sometimes you don't.
> >>
> >> The Councils also have so many rules and regulations.
> >> Whew! They can overwhelm leaders at times. Ah hem.
> >> My assistant and I do break quite a few though at
> >> times! ; )
> >>
> >> I am having a senior's moment....the woman who did the
> >> reptile show for our homeschool group...can't remember
> >> her name, but anyway, she wanted to display and
> >> discuss venomous and non-venomous snakes at a Girl
> >> Scout workshop for leaders. She said she didn't want
> >> to take up anyone's time. But people could've looked
> >> at them during the breaks. They told her that snakes
> >> weren't allowed at the camp. She told me that she
> >> couldn't help laughing and asked the Council if they
> >> thought there weren't any snakes at the camp. They
> >> told her that snakes were too traumatic for many women
> >> and girls. In fact, that Council doesn't want you to
> >> say snake if you see one. You have to call it in on
> >> the walkie-talkie and say, "I have spotted Mr.
> >> No-Shoulders." The reptile woman...smile...I can't
> >> stand it when I can't remember people's names... said
> >> she wouldn't have believed it if she hadn't heard it
> >> herself. She said instead of teaching the leaders
> >> about snakes, and there are plenty at the camp, the
> >> leaders learned how to make a campfire using candy. I
> >> laughed hysterically because we did the same thing at
> >> my training!! I live in the Low Country, so I would
> >> have loved to have been up close with a diamondback
> >> rattler so I would know what it looked like in case my
> >> troop and I come across one.
> >>
> >> A service unit on another occasion had asked her to do
> >> workshops for their weekend camp for girls. She said
> >> she thought it would be better if she taught the
> >> cadettes and then they could teach the other girls.
> >> She would be more of a mentor. She said she had no
> >> desire to be the sage on the stage. She thought this
> >> was about girls and leadership. Apparently not!
> >> <grin>
> >>
> >> Well, the leaders of the service unit decided to call
> >> the weekend Creepy Crawly Thangs. She said that she
> >> told them that she had hoped that she could talk with
> >> the girls before a title was picked, but they said no.
> >> She bowed out because she said a lot of folks in our
> >> state kill everything that moves as it is...and if
> >> something is creepy and crawly and a THANG, then they
> >> really will kill it. She said she knows that she will
> >> never get asked to do anything again.
> >>
> >> All this to say that you gotta remember that if you do
> >> Girl Scouts that there are headaches too. My
> >> headaches were more around the cookie sales. We sold
> >> so many boxes and got so little money back. The other
> >> thing is that the paperwork is voluminous. Truly
> >> voluminous. Then, even if your girls vote on a field
> >> trip or activity, then some Councils insist everything
> >> goes through them. There can't be much spontaneity
> >> because there are deadlines and usually they are a
> >> month to 3 weeks in advance of the event.
> >>
> >> My Council prefers that troops be all the same age.
> >> This is very different from Boy Scouts where the older
> >> boys can role model and teach the younger ones.
> >>
> >> My assistant and I always let our girls decide stuff.
> >> If someone doesn't want to do something, we help them
> >> find the resource people or whatever to do what they
> >> want. There aren't as many cadette and Senior troops
> >> as there are Brownies and Juniors. Girls won't stay
> >> in an organization that tells them what to do all the
> >> time or puts limits on everything. My troop wants me
> >> to convert our troop to a Boy Scout Venturers group
> >> when they all turn 14.
> >>
> >> There was something else I was going to say...I think
> >> I need an herb for memory!! Oh, I know. Some
> >> Councils have their own political agenda. I am pretty
> >> liberal myself, but I am not into trying to convince
> >> anyone else to believe what I believe or what Council
> >> believes. They sent out this letter that encouraged
> >> us not to support Bush. I don't think it is right for
> >> me to express my views on Presidential candidates.
> >> Now I wouldn't be against having the girls discuss how
> >> one evaluates candidates. This is just one example.
> >> There were other political issues that are
> >> controversial that I avoid...like abortion. I don't
> >> want to tell my girls what to think. I would rather
> >> teach them how to evaluate positions.
> >>
> >> Well, that is my two cents...or was that ten?...on
> >> Girl Scouting!
> >>
> >> Rachel Minninger
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> __________________________________
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Joylyn
Pam, tell me more about this, how do I do this, do I also need to change
schools where we meet? How about my girls, will they be allowed to stay
in my troop? And what about our number, will we have to get a new troop
number?
Joylyn
Pamela Sorooshian wrote:
schools where we meet? How about my girls, will they be allowed to stay
in my troop? And what about our number, will we have to get a new troop
number?
Joylyn
Pamela Sorooshian wrote:
> Chance service units. I've changed a couple of times.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> (West Garden Grove SU has a fantastic su manager who LOVED our
> homeschool troup of 25 girls from 5 to 14 years old. )
>
> -pam
>
>
> On Sunday, June 15, 2003, at 08:53 AM, Joylyn wrote:
>
> > I am trying
> > to figure out how to solve this because it simply isn't working.
> >
>
>
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Pamela Sorooshian
You have to change troop numbers, most likely. Your agreement with the
school where you meet is between you and the school, isn't it? So that
would not be impacted. You'd have to have a new bank account.
-pam
school where you meet is between you and the school, isn't it? So that
would not be impacted. You'd have to have a new bank account.
-pam
On Sunday, June 15, 2003, at 06:48 PM, Joylyn wrote:
> Pam, tell me more about this, how do I do this, do I also need to
> change
> schools where we meet? How about my girls, will they be allowed to stay
> in my troop? And what about our number, will we have to get a new
> troop
> number?
>
> Joylyn
>
> Pamela Sorooshian wrote:
>
>> Chance service units. I've changed a couple of times.
>>
>> (West Garden Grove SU has a fantastic su manager who LOVED our
>> homeschool troup of 25 girls from 5 to 14 years old. )
>>
>> -pam
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, June 15, 2003, at 08:53 AM, Joylyn wrote:
>>
>>> I am trying
>>> to figure out how to solve this because it simply isn't working.
>>>
>>
>>
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>
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[email protected]
In a message dated 6/15/2003 10:25:35 AM Central Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> I should just put an ad in the paper and say "I would like to be contactedOr you could try Camp Fire. ;)
> by
> a really intelligent girl scout leader who has e-mail and no prejudice
> against homeschoolers."
>
> Hell, I should just send a postcard to the council office and say that. <g>
>
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Sunday, June 15, 2003, at 09:34 PM, Tuckervill@... wrote:
Scouts is fine if you're not looking for a long-term relationship <G>
with an organization, I suppose, but I would really NOT get myself very
involved with it right at this particular time. The new older girls
(older means 11 to 17 year olds) program seems like it is based on
Seventeen Magazine or something - I really think people are going to be
terribly disappointed in it as their daughters get older.
4H seems to get better as kids get older - has more of an unschooling
nature to it, too. Kids focus on projects they have a particular
interest in - and it has that experiential aspect too - and all kinds
of learning are fully respected.
If someone is looking for another really wonderful organization to get
hooked up with, I'd recommend taking a look at Destination Imagination,
too. I've managed a DI team for the past 2 years and the kids have
really really loved it. It is hard to explain what it is - so if you
think you might be interested in creative problem solving, just spend
some time browsing around on the website at
www.destinationimagination.org.
-pam
> Or you could try Camp Fire. ;)I know people involved with Campfire and it sounds great! Or 4H. Girl
>
Scouts is fine if you're not looking for a long-term relationship <G>
with an organization, I suppose, but I would really NOT get myself very
involved with it right at this particular time. The new older girls
(older means 11 to 17 year olds) program seems like it is based on
Seventeen Magazine or something - I really think people are going to be
terribly disappointed in it as their daughters get older.
4H seems to get better as kids get older - has more of an unschooling
nature to it, too. Kids focus on projects they have a particular
interest in - and it has that experiential aspect too - and all kinds
of learning are fully respected.
If someone is looking for another really wonderful organization to get
hooked up with, I'd recommend taking a look at Destination Imagination,
too. I've managed a DI team for the past 2 years and the kids have
really really loved it. It is hard to explain what it is - so if you
think you might be interested in creative problem solving, just spend
some time browsing around on the website at
www.destinationimagination.org.
-pam
[email protected]
I was a Girl scout leadr for many years. my daughter and another home school
child in area both want to go into it the mother of other child was leader
and a homeschool parent. We have decided to start our ouwn troop with just
our girls or do what G.S. call indivaual troop list the girls seperately so we
can take advantige or the girl scout places and trips. It was important to us
the girls choose what they want to do. When I was the leader for my other
daughters troop I caught a lot of static as I went by what the G.S. told me it
was there troop and they set goals and choose what they wanted to learn or
do. It was just my job to help them.I did this and the parents called a
meeting saying I was to helpful and they where to busy that allowing them to
choose was bad. we had to call in the local councial who said nope cant do
this to our leader that was what G.S.is about.The girls in my Troop loved it
and kept me very very busy learning. so I could be the adult shaparone G.S.
asked theat I take some classes to learn the G.S camping and such the girls
loved doing things like making bread using the sun.must confess loking forward
to only a troop of 2 and leting them set times and dates. but much else wont
be diffrent as it there troop and deal I will just do my job of taking the
classes to go where therey want to go, and help them decide or find resorses
on how to get there. every regestion in G/S alowes you and your child to be a
ind. troop and alows you if the cash flow isnt there to use there scolarship
program say the girls decide they want to go to a zoo or take and make
puppet show cost for zoo trip 5 to get in fill put paper work they send the
girls, and they can do the same for there books and patches if they desire.I
and lisa decided not to send her to a bigger troop in next town as they mostly
just do the craft and after school type of troop. she wants to choose where
to go and how to be involved and the other girl in town wants the same thing.
Dee
child in area both want to go into it the mother of other child was leader
and a homeschool parent. We have decided to start our ouwn troop with just
our girls or do what G.S. call indivaual troop list the girls seperately so we
can take advantige or the girl scout places and trips. It was important to us
the girls choose what they want to do. When I was the leader for my other
daughters troop I caught a lot of static as I went by what the G.S. told me it
was there troop and they set goals and choose what they wanted to learn or
do. It was just my job to help them.I did this and the parents called a
meeting saying I was to helpful and they where to busy that allowing them to
choose was bad. we had to call in the local councial who said nope cant do
this to our leader that was what G.S.is about.The girls in my Troop loved it
and kept me very very busy learning. so I could be the adult shaparone G.S.
asked theat I take some classes to learn the G.S camping and such the girls
loved doing things like making bread using the sun.must confess loking forward
to only a troop of 2 and leting them set times and dates. but much else wont
be diffrent as it there troop and deal I will just do my job of taking the
classes to go where therey want to go, and help them decide or find resorses
on how to get there. every regestion in G/S alowes you and your child to be a
ind. troop and alows you if the cash flow isnt there to use there scolarship
program say the girls decide they want to go to a zoo or take and make
puppet show cost for zoo trip 5 to get in fill put paper work they send the
girls, and they can do the same for there books and patches if they desire.I
and lisa decided not to send her to a bigger troop in next town as they mostly
just do the craft and after school type of troop. she wants to choose where
to go and how to be involved and the other girl in town wants the same thing.
Dee
> In a message dated 6/15/2003 10:25:35 AM Central Daylight Time,
> SandraDodd@... writes:
>
> > I should just put an ad in the paper and say "I would like to be contacted
> > by
> > a really intelligent girl scout leader who has e-mail and no prejudice
> > against homeschoolers."
> >
> > Hell, I should just send a postcard to the council office and say that. <g>
> >
>
> Or you could try Camp Fire. ;)
>
> Tuck
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
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>
>
Alan & Brenda Leonard
6/16/03 14:54:
scouts are still by age range (Brownies, Juniors, etc.), right? Boy Scouts
is divided entirely by grade for Cub Scouts. 1st Graders are Tigers. 2nd
Graders are Wolves, etc. Mixed age dens just don't exist many places.
Packs are mixed 1-5th grade, but don't do a whole lot together besides a
monthly meeting, just because that's a lot of boys. Dens do more going
places, but it's all age divided. And some of the requirements are very,
very schooly.
I do think that Boy Scouts and Venturing is better, but we do certainly have
massive council problems here, too. All is not green on the other side of
the fence, unfortunately.
brenda
> My Council prefers that troops be all the same age.Don't kid yourself, cub scouts is no better about that. In fact, the girl
> This is very different from Boy Scouts where the older
> boys can role model and teach the younger ones.
scouts are still by age range (Brownies, Juniors, etc.), right? Boy Scouts
is divided entirely by grade for Cub Scouts. 1st Graders are Tigers. 2nd
Graders are Wolves, etc. Mixed age dens just don't exist many places.
Packs are mixed 1-5th grade, but don't do a whole lot together besides a
monthly meeting, just because that's a lot of boys. Dens do more going
places, but it's all age divided. And some of the requirements are very,
very schooly.
I do think that Boy Scouts and Venturing is better, but we do certainly have
massive council problems here, too. All is not green on the other side of
the fence, unfortunately.
brenda
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/15/03 10:45:18 PM, pamsoroosh@... writes:
<< 4H seems to get better as kids get older - has more of an unschooling
nature to it, too. Kids focus on projects they have a particular
interest in - and it has that experiential aspect too - and all kinds
of learning are fully respected. >>
I did 4H as a kid. I don't think Holly would have much interest in that
stuff.
She's more a.... Seventeen Magazine kind of girl!
<eeep! hee hee>
<<If someone is looking for another really wonderful organization to get
hooked up with, I'd recommend taking a look at Destination Imagination,
too. I've managed a DI team for the past 2 years and the kids have
really really loved it..>
That's more along Holly's interests. She's more into looking fabulous and
then messing with categorizing/engineering kinds of things. She's not much into
animals and plants and dirt.
Sandra
<< 4H seems to get better as kids get older - has more of an unschooling
nature to it, too. Kids focus on projects they have a particular
interest in - and it has that experiential aspect too - and all kinds
of learning are fully respected. >>
I did 4H as a kid. I don't think Holly would have much interest in that
stuff.
She's more a.... Seventeen Magazine kind of girl!
<eeep! hee hee>
<<If someone is looking for another really wonderful organization to get
hooked up with, I'd recommend taking a look at Destination Imagination,
too. I've managed a DI team for the past 2 years and the kids have
really really loved it..>
That's more along Holly's interests. She's more into looking fabulous and
then messing with categorizing/engineering kinds of things. She's not much into
animals and plants and dirt.
Sandra
nellebelle
I just finished my 2nd year as a troop leader, and my 4th year with mixed age troops. The leader has a lot of freedom in running the troop, so a girl's experience really will depend on the leader.
When I sat through my leader training, they discouraged mixed age troops. I spoke up several times to say that our troop was mixed and that it was working well for us. We've always had brownies and juniors, and one year had daisies in addition.
Our last two years we had girls aged 6 to 11. Our troop had public-, private-, and homeschooled members. Next year we are switching to a cooperative and all homeschooled troop that will be brownie, junior, and cadet. We have enjoyed having the schooled girls in the troop, but being all homeschooled will allow us to schedule things during school hours. Being cooperative will allow us more flexibility in activities and will spread the leader - load.
Although I hate selling things, I will say that people seem to love buying girl scout cookies. The council encourages us to sell as many as possible, but there is no pressure. We are not even required to sell them. But our troop members want to. We use the money for troop supplies and for special events that the girls choose. They have used the money to go rock climbing, horse vaulting, swimming, to a ceramics studio, bowling, mini-golf, and a pizza party.
Probably my biggest dislike of girls scouts is the way that rewards are used. The girls get prizes for selling cookies and they get badges for completing activities.
I'd be happy to share ideas (pros and cons) with others interested in girl scouts.
Mary Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
When I sat through my leader training, they discouraged mixed age troops. I spoke up several times to say that our troop was mixed and that it was working well for us. We've always had brownies and juniors, and one year had daisies in addition.
Our last two years we had girls aged 6 to 11. Our troop had public-, private-, and homeschooled members. Next year we are switching to a cooperative and all homeschooled troop that will be brownie, junior, and cadet. We have enjoyed having the schooled girls in the troop, but being all homeschooled will allow us to schedule things during school hours. Being cooperative will allow us more flexibility in activities and will spread the leader - load.
Although I hate selling things, I will say that people seem to love buying girl scout cookies. The council encourages us to sell as many as possible, but there is no pressure. We are not even required to sell them. But our troop members want to. We use the money for troop supplies and for special events that the girls choose. They have used the money to go rock climbing, horse vaulting, swimming, to a ceramics studio, bowling, mini-golf, and a pizza party.
Probably my biggest dislike of girls scouts is the way that rewards are used. The girls get prizes for selling cookies and they get badges for completing activities.
I'd be happy to share ideas (pros and cons) with others interested in girl scouts.
Mary Ellen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Monday, June 16, 2003, at 09:44 AM, SandraDodd@... wrote:
example. Most counties have a fashion show. Sewing and stuff like that
are popular. Computers and photography are big popular projects around
here. Arts and crafts. I'm going to run a Theater Arts project in the
fall. There is also carpentry and rocketry and all kinds of other stuff.
Of course, it all is dependent on who they can get to be project
leaders - not all projects available everywhere, that's for sure. Lots
of options though - and you don't have to stick with your own 4H club
for projects.
-pam
>4H isn't just that, though. 4H has fashion design projects, for
> That's more along Holly's interests. She's more into looking fabulous
> and
> then messing with categorizing/engineering kinds of things. She's not
> much into
> animals and plants and dirt.
example. Most counties have a fashion show. Sewing and stuff like that
are popular. Computers and photography are big popular projects around
here. Arts and crafts. I'm going to run a Theater Arts project in the
fall. There is also carpentry and rocketry and all kinds of other stuff.
Of course, it all is dependent on who they can get to be project
leaders - not all projects available everywhere, that's for sure. Lots
of options though - and you don't have to stick with your own 4H club
for projects.
-pam
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/16/03 12:26:36 PM, pamsoroosh@... writes:
<< 4H isn't just that, though. 4H has fashion design projects, for
example. Most counties have a fashion show. Sewing and stuff like that
are popular. Computers and photography are big popular projects around
here. Arts and crafts. I'm going to run a Theater Arts project in the
fall. There is also carpentry and rocketry and all kinds of other stuff. >>
Okay.
The only sewing stuf I knew of here was home sewing (kitchen stuff) and sheep
to shawl (back to raising animals, and carding and spinning and such).
Thanks!
Sandra
<< 4H isn't just that, though. 4H has fashion design projects, for
example. Most counties have a fashion show. Sewing and stuff like that
are popular. Computers and photography are big popular projects around
here. Arts and crafts. I'm going to run a Theater Arts project in the
fall. There is also carpentry and rocketry and all kinds of other stuff. >>
Okay.
The only sewing stuf I knew of here was home sewing (kitchen stuff) and sheep
to shawl (back to raising animals, and carding and spinning and such).
Thanks!
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/15/03 7:45:57 PM, joylyn@... writes:
<< Yes, Rosanna andI were talking yesterday at dinner about this and she
told me a bunch andI am not pleased. Can't we complain? Loudly? >>
Why not just turn and walk?
Start another club?
Sandra
<< Yes, Rosanna andI were talking yesterday at dinner about this and she
told me a bunch andI am not pleased. Can't we complain? Loudly? >>
Why not just turn and walk?
Start another club?
Sandra
Dana
>much into
> That's more along Holly's interests. She's more into looking fabulous and
> then messing with categorizing/engineering kinds of things. She's not
> animals and plants and dirtJust a comment--there's a lot about 4-H that isn't dirt and plants and
animals...They have fashion shows, even, and you can buy the clothes instead
of sewing them ;)
Lauren (almost 11) does bicycling, astronomy, cooking, and electricity in
4-H.
Dana
----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Girl Scouts
>
> In a message dated 6/15/03 10:45:18 PM, pamsoroosh@... writes:
>
> << 4H seems to get better as kids get older - has more of an unschooling
> nature to it, too. Kids focus on projects they have a particular
> interest in - and it has that experiential aspect too - and all kinds
> of learning are fully respected. >>
>
> I did 4H as a kid. I don't think Holly would have much interest in that
> stuff.
> She's more a.... Seventeen Magazine kind of girl!
>
> <eeep! hee hee>
>
> <<If someone is looking for another really wonderful organization to get
> hooked up with, I'd recommend taking a look at Destination Imagination,
> too. I've managed a DI team for the past 2 years and the kids have
> really really loved it..>
>
> That's more along Holly's interests. She's more into looking fabulous and
> then messing with categorizing/engineering kinds of things. She's not
much into
> animals and plants and dirt.
>
> Sandra
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
Joylyn
I finally got a hold of the council person and after a bit of dicussion
confirmed that a. the girl our SU Manager said could not fly up will
fly up, the restriction put on our new multilevel troop was no new
Juniors, not brownies, Taylor joined as a brownie so she is fine to fly
up. b. Our SU Manager will not be attending our ceremony and our
registration stuff will be taken care of by either our new SU Manager or
Claudia. and C. We will be changing Service Units and the council
person will call me tomorrow to tell me more about that...
So, maybe NOW it's solved. Kathryn, please let your partner know this.
And thanks to EVERYONE!
Joylyn
Pamela Sorooshian wrote:
confirmed that a. the girl our SU Manager said could not fly up will
fly up, the restriction put on our new multilevel troop was no new
Juniors, not brownies, Taylor joined as a brownie so she is fine to fly
up. b. Our SU Manager will not be attending our ceremony and our
registration stuff will be taken care of by either our new SU Manager or
Claudia. and C. We will be changing Service Units and the council
person will call me tomorrow to tell me more about that...
So, maybe NOW it's solved. Kathryn, please let your partner know this.
And thanks to EVERYONE!
Joylyn
Pamela Sorooshian wrote:
> You have to change troop numbers, most likely. Your agreement with the[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> school where you meet is between you and the school, isn't it? So that
> would not be impacted. You'd have to have a new bank account.
>
> -pam
>
>
> On Sunday, June 15, 2003, at 06:48 PM, Joylyn wrote:
>
> > Pam, tell me more about this, how do I do this, do I also need to
> > change
> > schools where we meet? How about my girls, will they be allowed to stay
> > in my troop? And what about our number, will we have to get a new
> > troop
> > number?
> >
> > Joylyn
> >
> > Pamela Sorooshian wrote:
> >
> >> Chance service units. I've changed a couple of times.
> >>
> >> (West Garden Grove SU has a fantastic su manager who LOVED our
> >> homeschool troup of 25 girls from 5 to 14 years old. )
> >>
> >> -pam
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sunday, June 15, 2003, at 08:53 AM, Joylyn wrote:
> >>
> >>> I am trying
> >>> to figure out how to solve this because it simply isn't working.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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Minninger
Hi!
I realize some of the money goes back to girls
indirectly, but in our case, it isn't much in terms of
the overall budget. I apologize for my negativity,
but the some of the Councils I know don't do much.
I would LOVE to change Councils. I didn't think you
could do that. How do you go about doing that?
Is there any way that a troop can be part of National
but by pass a Council? Our leader meetings are
*dreadful.*
Studio 2B...I will have to check out the website. I
have heard good propaganda about it. But Seventeen
Mag? Yuck.
I don't like Girl Scouts, but my daughter does. Our
troop is where her friends are, and we do a lot of fun
things together. The girls like working on badges.
I tried 4H since I was a 4Her myself. Much better
organization overall, but not in SC. Clemson
University is phasing out 4H. I was told they would
like to get rid of it completely. They will still
have it on paper, but they aren't putting any money
into agents salaries to support it. They are putting
their money into the Youth Learning Institute for
at-risk kids and high priced camps.
Pam, I would love to hear more specifics about what
you don't like about Studio 2B. Is this the only
choice available? Can girls choose the traditional GS
route of cadette or senior?
Boy Scout Venturers are looking better every day! My
troop is not just a homeschooling group. We have a
mix.
Rachel Minninger
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
I realize some of the money goes back to girls
indirectly, but in our case, it isn't much in terms of
the overall budget. I apologize for my negativity,
but the some of the Councils I know don't do much.
I would LOVE to change Councils. I didn't think you
could do that. How do you go about doing that?
Is there any way that a troop can be part of National
but by pass a Council? Our leader meetings are
*dreadful.*
Studio 2B...I will have to check out the website. I
have heard good propaganda about it. But Seventeen
Mag? Yuck.
I don't like Girl Scouts, but my daughter does. Our
troop is where her friends are, and we do a lot of fun
things together. The girls like working on badges.
I tried 4H since I was a 4Her myself. Much better
organization overall, but not in SC. Clemson
University is phasing out 4H. I was told they would
like to get rid of it completely. They will still
have it on paper, but they aren't putting any money
into agents salaries to support it. They are putting
their money into the Youth Learning Institute for
at-risk kids and high priced camps.
Pam, I would love to hear more specifics about what
you don't like about Studio 2B. Is this the only
choice available? Can girls choose the traditional GS
route of cadette or senior?
Boy Scout Venturers are looking better every day! My
troop is not just a homeschooling group. We have a
mix.
Rachel Minninger
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
nellebelle
It is my understanding that studio 2b is an added program. The traditional cadet and senior programs will still be available.
Mary Ellen
Mary Ellen
----- Original Message ----- Look at www.studio2b.org for a glimpse of what is coming to,
eventually, replace cadette and senior girl scouting.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Monday, June 16, 2003, at 09:12 PM, nellebelle wrote:
will be phased out. They've already said that only a tiny fraction of
older girls actually use the cadette and senior materials, so they'll
be phased out. Registration materials and other published materials are
already being changed to refer to older girls as "members of studio2b"
and not as cadettes or seniors.
-pam
> It is my understanding that studio 2b is an added program. TheOnly during the pilot period. Then the materials that are not utilized
> traditional cadet and senior programs will still be available.
will be phased out. They've already said that only a tiny fraction of
older girls actually use the cadette and senior materials, so they'll
be phased out. Registration materials and other published materials are
already being changed to refer to older girls as "members of studio2b"
and not as cadettes or seniors.
-pam
Jamye Wilson
Actually, we looked into 4H once and they have a lot more than diirt and
plants, etc.
They had projects on sewing, interior decorating (thinking of things that
would be in Seventeen) and a whole lot of other things than you might
expect.
J
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
plants, etc.
They had projects on sewing, interior decorating (thinking of things that
would be in Seventeen) and a whole lot of other things than you might
expect.
J
>From: SandraDodd@..._________________________________________________________________
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Girl Scouts
>Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:44:18 EDT
>
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/17/2003 3:07:10 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
still there. And girls can do both, if they like.
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> Studio 2B...I will have to check out the website. IPlain old Girl Scouts for older girls is NOT going away...those choices are
> have heard good propaganda about it. But Seventeen
> Mag? Yuck.
>
> I don't like Girl Scouts, but my daughter does. Our
> troop is where her friends are, and we do a lot of fun
> things together. The girls like working on badges.
>
> I tried 4H since I was a 4Her myself. Much better
> organization overall, but not in SC. Clemson
> University is phasing out 4H. I was told they would
> like to get rid of it completely. They will still
> have it on paper, but they aren't putting any money
> into agents salaries to support it. They are putting
> their money into the Youth Learning Institute for
> at-risk kids and high priced camps.
>
> Pam, I would love to hear more specifics about what
> you don't like about Studio 2B. Is this the only
> choice available? Can girls choose the traditional GS
> route of cadette or senior?
>
> Boy Scout Venturers are looking better every day! My
> troop is not just a homeschooling group. We have a
> mix.
>
> Rachel Minninger
>
still there. And girls can do both, if they like.
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Tuesday, June 17, 2003, at 07:03 AM, KathrynJB@... wrote:
program materials that are less frequently utilized will be phased out.
They've already SAID that the cadette and senior program materials are
used by only a fraction of current members - so they are clearly
already sitting on the chopping block.
The focus books are well-intentioned - but look at what's out there -
the first focus books for girls 11 to 17 years old.
Take Charge - talks about date rape and self-defense
Uniquely Me - Inside and Out -- it is about style and self-esteem
Uniquely Me - The Real Deal -- it is about having a PMA (positive
mental attitude) to deal with peer pressure
Looking In, Reaching Out -- it is about journaling and thinking about
one's own feelings
There are now a few other focus books - one on writing, one on track
and field, and one on traveling.
Contrast this to the Boy Scouts merit badges - on horseriding,
ceramics, camping, backpacking, carpentry, beekeeping, archery, drama,
engineering, and so on - dozens of them --- all REAL stuff to learn and
do and THEIR booklets have actual information in them to help the kids
learn.
The girl scout focus books take the place of earning any kind of merit
badges - the girls buy the booklets ($5 to $6 each) and read them and
do the activities (answer some questions, mostly) and then set their
own goals. When they've achieved their own goals, they can buy
themselves a little charm - for another $4 or $5.
(I LIKE the setting their own goals aspect, by the way.)
But - I have absolutely NO interest in my 12 yo daughter being treated
to such obtrusive pop psychology by somebody who volunteers to be her
girl scout leader. We don't share the same religion nor values in many
areas and certainly not at ALL the same kind of approach to discussing
these kinds of things. And - much of the material is very very
anti-family. Even the most innocuous focus book - the one about writing
- there is a section about how to write a persuasive essay to convince
your parents to let you go to an all-night party. I found it very
offensive. The attitude that parents and kids are adversaries is
pervasive in the materials. It is assumed that all teenage girls will
have hostility toward their parents. There is a section in one of them
where it suggests that it IS possible that they could EVEN have fun
with their family. The message is clear - normal teenage girls don't
like their families.
There's more - but I'll stop ranting for now <G>.
I was a girl scout for all of my childhood and have been involved as an
adult for 14 years. I've won council-level awards honoring my work for
the organization. I'm sickened by the direction the older girls'
program is moving - I was hoping to see MORE real content, not this
pandering to the worst of society's view of teenage girls. I've got
THREE teenage girls (well - two plus one almost there) and this program
is so unsuitable for them and their friends that, just reading about
it, they were very very insulted and offended.
I have no idea if teenagers who go to school will now flock to it or
not - although I'd be very surprised if they'll bother. I cannot
imagine it appealing to girls with real lives and real senses of
themselves. At best, it is fluff.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Plain old Girl Scouts for older girls is NOT going away...thoseOnly for the next couple of years during the pilot period. Then the
> choices are
> still there. And girls can do both, if they like.
program materials that are less frequently utilized will be phased out.
They've already SAID that the cadette and senior program materials are
used by only a fraction of current members - so they are clearly
already sitting on the chopping block.
The focus books are well-intentioned - but look at what's out there -
the first focus books for girls 11 to 17 years old.
Take Charge - talks about date rape and self-defense
Uniquely Me - Inside and Out -- it is about style and self-esteem
Uniquely Me - The Real Deal -- it is about having a PMA (positive
mental attitude) to deal with peer pressure
Looking In, Reaching Out -- it is about journaling and thinking about
one's own feelings
There are now a few other focus books - one on writing, one on track
and field, and one on traveling.
Contrast this to the Boy Scouts merit badges - on horseriding,
ceramics, camping, backpacking, carpentry, beekeeping, archery, drama,
engineering, and so on - dozens of them --- all REAL stuff to learn and
do and THEIR booklets have actual information in them to help the kids
learn.
The girl scout focus books take the place of earning any kind of merit
badges - the girls buy the booklets ($5 to $6 each) and read them and
do the activities (answer some questions, mostly) and then set their
own goals. When they've achieved their own goals, they can buy
themselves a little charm - for another $4 or $5.
(I LIKE the setting their own goals aspect, by the way.)
But - I have absolutely NO interest in my 12 yo daughter being treated
to such obtrusive pop psychology by somebody who volunteers to be her
girl scout leader. We don't share the same religion nor values in many
areas and certainly not at ALL the same kind of approach to discussing
these kinds of things. And - much of the material is very very
anti-family. Even the most innocuous focus book - the one about writing
- there is a section about how to write a persuasive essay to convince
your parents to let you go to an all-night party. I found it very
offensive. The attitude that parents and kids are adversaries is
pervasive in the materials. It is assumed that all teenage girls will
have hostility toward their parents. There is a section in one of them
where it suggests that it IS possible that they could EVEN have fun
with their family. The message is clear - normal teenage girls don't
like their families.
There's more - but I'll stop ranting for now <G>.
I was a girl scout for all of my childhood and have been involved as an
adult for 14 years. I've won council-level awards honoring my work for
the organization. I'm sickened by the direction the older girls'
program is moving - I was hoping to see MORE real content, not this
pandering to the worst of society's view of teenage girls. I've got
THREE teenage girls (well - two plus one almost there) and this program
is so unsuitable for them and their friends that, just reading about
it, they were very very insulted and offended.
I have no idea if teenagers who go to school will now flock to it or
not - although I'd be very surprised if they'll bother. I cannot
imagine it appealing to girls with real lives and real senses of
themselves. At best, it is fluff.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/17/03 12:49:38 PM, pamsoroosh@... writes:
<< Even the most innocuous focus book - the one about writing
- there is a section about how to write a persuasive essay to convince
your parents to let you go to an all-night party. I found it very
offensive. >>
I wanted to point out for people here who don't know Pam that this doesn't
mean (I don't THINK) that she would be opposed to an all-night party. That was
not (I think) what was the offensive part (I'm guessing). (Pam's logged off
or I would get her to confirm before a qualify myself into mush.)
<<The attitude that parents and kids are adversaries is
pervasive in the materials. It is assumed that all teenage girls will
have hostility toward their parents. >>
I think that was the yuck part for her.
Last time our family was at the Sorooshian's, Keith and Holly and I were
sleeping in a camper in the driveway (Thanks again, Vilter-family!) while my
teenaged boys were in the house with HER teenaged girls and their daddy. This, I
must admit, made me nervous. Not that the boys would turn to casanova freaks,
but that the girls' dad would be restless wondering, and not get to sleep
well in his own home. But when I asked about it the next day, Pam seemed
breezily unconcerned, and that made me feel good.
Of course, parents WERE there (they were surrounded), but kids were awake
when others weren't.
Roya has been to Not Back to School Camp two or three times, and that's
certainly an overnight party. A big one.
-=-
Uniquely Me - Inside and Out -- it is about style and self-esteem
Uniquely Me - The Real Deal -- it is about having a PMA (positive
mental attitude) to deal with peer pressure
-=-
We paid big bucks for some of that at John Robert Powers, because Holly loves
that girly stuff.
When you first contrasted that list with the boy scout "real" stuff, Pam, my
first reaction was that inter- and intrapersonal stuff is as real as archery,
but the girls who have those skills already have them without girl scout
booklets, and those who don't have them are just going to be socializing (awkwardly
<g>) through it all anyway.
<<But - I have absolutely NO interest in my 12 yo daughter being treated
to such obtrusive pop psychology by somebody who volunteers to be her
girl scout leader. We don't share the same religion nor values in many
areas and certainly not at ALL the same kind of approach to discussing
these kinds of things.>>
Yes. Bad enough the damage of a bad teacher (leaders are sometimes NOT
teacher-type, nor counselor type of personalities) when it comes to camp cooking or
theatre, without someone with no special knowledge or interest playing group
counsellor.
Well it's interesting!
It's been a long time since Girl Scouts was...
I started to say something but I take it back. I have a handbook from the
1940's (I think), one from the 60's, and have seen a few since (Holly's Juniors
book from not long ago) and they've kinda kept up with the popular arts and
skills of the day, with social work thrown in (volunteerism with kids and the
elderly, the environment).
Does the new program have books about that?
Do they have ANY camping and outdoors stuff planned? First aid? Water
safety? Any of the old standbys?
Sandra
<< Even the most innocuous focus book - the one about writing
- there is a section about how to write a persuasive essay to convince
your parents to let you go to an all-night party. I found it very
offensive. >>
I wanted to point out for people here who don't know Pam that this doesn't
mean (I don't THINK) that she would be opposed to an all-night party. That was
not (I think) what was the offensive part (I'm guessing). (Pam's logged off
or I would get her to confirm before a qualify myself into mush.)
<<The attitude that parents and kids are adversaries is
pervasive in the materials. It is assumed that all teenage girls will
have hostility toward their parents. >>
I think that was the yuck part for her.
Last time our family was at the Sorooshian's, Keith and Holly and I were
sleeping in a camper in the driveway (Thanks again, Vilter-family!) while my
teenaged boys were in the house with HER teenaged girls and their daddy. This, I
must admit, made me nervous. Not that the boys would turn to casanova freaks,
but that the girls' dad would be restless wondering, and not get to sleep
well in his own home. But when I asked about it the next day, Pam seemed
breezily unconcerned, and that made me feel good.
Of course, parents WERE there (they were surrounded), but kids were awake
when others weren't.
Roya has been to Not Back to School Camp two or three times, and that's
certainly an overnight party. A big one.
-=-
Uniquely Me - Inside and Out -- it is about style and self-esteem
Uniquely Me - The Real Deal -- it is about having a PMA (positive
mental attitude) to deal with peer pressure
-=-
We paid big bucks for some of that at John Robert Powers, because Holly loves
that girly stuff.
When you first contrasted that list with the boy scout "real" stuff, Pam, my
first reaction was that inter- and intrapersonal stuff is as real as archery,
but the girls who have those skills already have them without girl scout
booklets, and those who don't have them are just going to be socializing (awkwardly
<g>) through it all anyway.
<<But - I have absolutely NO interest in my 12 yo daughter being treated
to such obtrusive pop psychology by somebody who volunteers to be her
girl scout leader. We don't share the same religion nor values in many
areas and certainly not at ALL the same kind of approach to discussing
these kinds of things.>>
Yes. Bad enough the damage of a bad teacher (leaders are sometimes NOT
teacher-type, nor counselor type of personalities) when it comes to camp cooking or
theatre, without someone with no special knowledge or interest playing group
counsellor.
Well it's interesting!
It's been a long time since Girl Scouts was...
I started to say something but I take it back. I have a handbook from the
1940's (I think), one from the 60's, and have seen a few since (Holly's Juniors
book from not long ago) and they've kinda kept up with the popular arts and
skills of the day, with social work thrown in (volunteerism with kids and the
elderly, the environment).
Does the new program have books about that?
Do they have ANY camping and outdoors stuff planned? First aid? Water
safety? Any of the old standbys?
Sandra
Joylyn
I care....
With my own girl, I'm 3 years away from this, but with my juniors, I'm
closer. Please let me know what she says.
joylyn
KathrynJB@... wrote:
With my own girl, I'm 3 years away from this, but with my juniors, I'm
closer. Please let me know what she says.
joylyn
KathrynJB@... wrote:
> In a message dated 6/17/2003 4:55:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> [email protected] writes:
>
> > On Tuesday, June 17, 2003, at 07:03 AM, KathrynJB@... wrote:
> >
> > >Plain old Girl Scouts for older girls is NOT going away...those
> > >choices are
> > >still there. And girls can do both, if they like.
> >
> > Only for the next couple of years during the pilot period. Then the
> > program materials that are less frequently utilized will be phased out.
> > They've already SAID that the cadette and senior program materials are
> > used by only a fraction of current members - so they are clearly
> > already sitting on the chopping block.
> >
> > The focus books are well-intentioned - but look at what's out there -
> > the first focus books for girls 11 to 17 years old.
> > Take Charge - talks about date rape and self-defense
> > Uniquely Me - Inside and Out -- it is about style and self-esteem
> > Uniquely Me - The Real Deal -- it is about having a PMA (positive
> > mental attitude) to deal with peer pressure
> > Looking In, Reaching Out -- it is about journaling and thinking about
> > one's own feelings
> >
> > There are now a few other focus books - one on writing, one on track
> > and field, and one on traveling.
> >
> > Contrast this to the Boy Scouts merit badges - on horseriding,
> > ceramics, camping, backpacking, carpentry, beekeeping, archery, drama,
> > engineering, and so on - dozens of them --- all REAL stuff to learn and
> > do and THEIR booklets have actual information in them to help the kids
> > learn.
> >
> > The girl scout focus books take the place of earning any kind of merit
> > badges - the girls buy the booklets ($5 to $6 each) and read them and
> > do the activities (answer some questions, mostly) and then set their
> > own goals. When they've achieved their own goals, they can buy
> > themselves a little charm - for another $4 or $5.
> >
> > (I LIKE the setting their own goals aspect, by the way.)
> >
> > But - I have absolutely NO interest in my 12 yo daughter being treated
> > to such obtrusive pop psychology by somebody who volunteers to be her
> > girl scout leader. We don't share the same religion nor values in many
> > areas and certainly not at ALL the same kind of approach to discussing
> > these kinds of things. And - much of the material is very very
> > anti-family. Even the most innocuous focus book - the one about writing
> > - there is a section about how to write a persuasive essay to convince
> > your parents to let you go to an all-night party. I found it very
> > offensive. The attitude that parents and kids are adversaries is
> > pervasive in the materials. It is assumed that all teenage girls will
> > have hostility toward their parents. There is a section in one of them
> > where it suggests that it IS possible that they could EVEN have fun
> > with their family. The message is clear - normal teenage girls don't
> > like their families.
> >
> > There's more - but I'll stop ranting for now <G>.
> > I was a girl scout for all of my childhood and have been involved as an
> > adult for 14 years. I've won council-level awards honoring my work for
> > the organization. I'm sickened by the direction the older girls'
> > program is moving - I was hoping to see MORE real content, not this
> > pandering to the worst of society's view of teenage girls. I've got
> > THREE teenage girls (well - two plus one almost there) and this program
> > is so unsuitable for them and their friends that, just reading about
> > it, they were very very insulted and offended.
> >
> > I have no idea if teenagers who go to school will now flock to it or
> > not - although I'd be very surprised if they'll bother. I cannot
> > imagine it appealing to girls with real lives and real senses of
> > themselves. At best, it is fluff.
> >
> > -pam
> >
> >
>
> Okay, I talked to Beth, my partner, who works for a GS council. What
> she said
> is that different councils are working on how to implement this, but
> that the
> intention is not to have regular GS go away. They did market research,
> apparently, and found that among older girls that GS was not "cool",
> and that's why
> they left the program.
>
> Therefore, the new program was designed so that it will not even
> mention that
> it's a GS program. To me it also doesn't sound that thrilling. I dunno.
>
> She's going to get me more info. I'll pass it along if anyone cares.
>
> Kathryn
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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Pamela Sorooshian
On Tuesday, June 17, 2003, at 12:19 PM, SandraDodd@... wrote:
homeschooling group is having one this week - Friday night - when the
new Harry Potter book becomes available at midnight.
No - it is the assumption that girls are alienated from their families
and that Girl Scouts ought to be helping them learn to debate their
parents, etc., that bugs me.
-pam
> I wanted to point out for people here who don't know Pam that thisLOL -- I'm all in FAVOR of all-night parties <G>. Our whole
> doesn't
> mean (I don't THINK) that she would be opposed to an all-night party.
homeschooling group is having one this week - Friday night - when the
new Harry Potter book becomes available at midnight.
No - it is the assumption that girls are alienated from their families
and that Girl Scouts ought to be helping them learn to debate their
parents, etc., that bugs me.
-pam
Pamela Sorooshian
I'm interested in what councils are being told.
Interesting reading if you google around and look at different council
websites and what they say about it.
I'm best-guessing that the old program will mostly go away (maybe
preserving silver and gold awards) - my guess is based on long long
experience with how girl scouts has introduced new materials and new
programs over the years.
On the other hand, once this starts to be implemented there may be
backlash. Who knows where things will end up. There hasn't been any
training yet for adult advisors - no longer leaders and, by the way, it
is preferred that girls interact with younger women - ages 18 to 30 -
although they do say there will still be a place for older women in the
program. But - they aren't going to publicize the new program to the
public until October - not until after the councils get full
information and they introduce the new program to their leaders (I
mean, advisors) and to the girls currently in the program.
-pam
Interesting reading if you google around and look at different council
websites and what they say about it.
I'm best-guessing that the old program will mostly go away (maybe
preserving silver and gold awards) - my guess is based on long long
experience with how girl scouts has introduced new materials and new
programs over the years.
On the other hand, once this starts to be implemented there may be
backlash. Who knows where things will end up. There hasn't been any
training yet for adult advisors - no longer leaders and, by the way, it
is preferred that girls interact with younger women - ages 18 to 30 -
although they do say there will still be a place for older women in the
program. But - they aren't going to publicize the new program to the
public until October - not until after the councils get full
information and they introduce the new program to their leaders (I
mean, advisors) and to the girls currently in the program.
-pam
On Tuesday, June 17, 2003, at 05:30 PM, Joylyn wrote:
>> She's going to get me more info. I'll pass it along if anyone cares.