Unschooling questions
Minninger
Hi!
As I said in a previous post, I am new to unschooling.
I like everything I have read. But maybe someone
would be willing to wax eloquently for me about some
things I have been wondering.
1) What if you have a child who is a poor speller?
Using a Franklin speller, dictionary, asking mom
doesn't seem to make much of a difference. If the
poor spelling skills bothers a child, is it ok to work
more deliberately on spelling?
2) I know a lot of skills are covered in every day
living, but how do you actually cover basic skills so
that your child doesn't have these big gaps or
splinter skills?
3) I am confused about unschooling vs. little
schooling. It is often hard for me to tell the
difference. I am not talking about anyone on this
list, so please don't take offense. But I don't get a
sense of kids with lots of depth and breadth who are
unschooling. This scares me. I know there are
wonderful unschooling kids out there who do all kinds
of things, but they aren't the typical kids I have
met.
Rachel Minninger
__________________________________
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Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
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As I said in a previous post, I am new to unschooling.
I like everything I have read. But maybe someone
would be willing to wax eloquently for me about some
things I have been wondering.
1) What if you have a child who is a poor speller?
Using a Franklin speller, dictionary, asking mom
doesn't seem to make much of a difference. If the
poor spelling skills bothers a child, is it ok to work
more deliberately on spelling?
2) I know a lot of skills are covered in every day
living, but how do you actually cover basic skills so
that your child doesn't have these big gaps or
splinter skills?
3) I am confused about unschooling vs. little
schooling. It is often hard for me to tell the
difference. I am not talking about anyone on this
list, so please don't take offense. But I don't get a
sense of kids with lots of depth and breadth who are
unschooling. This scares me. I know there are
wonderful unschooling kids out there who do all kinds
of things, but they aren't the typical kids I have
met.
Rachel Minninger
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
http://calendar.yahoo.com
Deborah Lewis
***If the
poor spelling skills bothers a child, is it ok to work
more deliberately on spelling?***
How old? I missed that I guess.
If she's bothered because people (parents) are telling her she's spelling
stuff wrong then maybe that just needs to stop.
If she's bothered because she really wants to spell well for her own
reasons, then I'd ask how I could help.
Looking up correct spelling does make a difference. You spell that word
right. If you're talking long term, spell every word right from now on,
she'll get there, or maybe not. I'm grateful every day for spell
check.<g>
***how do you actually cover basic skills so
that your child doesn't have these big gaps or
splinter skills?***
Every kid who's ever gone to school has gaps. People learn to close the
gaps when they have a need to do so. She'll find a way to spell the
words right on a party invitation and the next time on a birthday card
and eventually on a job application. Exposure to written language and an
interest in spelling words correctly will be her gap filler.
*** But I don't get a
sense of kids with lots of depth and breadth who are
unschooling.
I know there are
wonderful unschooling kids out there who do all kinds
of things, but they aren't the typical kids I have
met.***
Now I'm lost. You are interested in unschooling but the unschoolers you
know are shallow and ignorant? Which of those things sparked your
interest?<g>
Deb L
poor spelling skills bothers a child, is it ok to work
more deliberately on spelling?***
How old? I missed that I guess.
If she's bothered because people (parents) are telling her she's spelling
stuff wrong then maybe that just needs to stop.
If she's bothered because she really wants to spell well for her own
reasons, then I'd ask how I could help.
Looking up correct spelling does make a difference. You spell that word
right. If you're talking long term, spell every word right from now on,
she'll get there, or maybe not. I'm grateful every day for spell
check.<g>
***how do you actually cover basic skills so
that your child doesn't have these big gaps or
splinter skills?***
Every kid who's ever gone to school has gaps. People learn to close the
gaps when they have a need to do so. She'll find a way to spell the
words right on a party invitation and the next time on a birthday card
and eventually on a job application. Exposure to written language and an
interest in spelling words correctly will be her gap filler.
*** But I don't get a
sense of kids with lots of depth and breadth who are
unschooling.
I know there are
wonderful unschooling kids out there who do all kinds
of things, but they aren't the typical kids I have
met.***
Now I'm lost. You are interested in unschooling but the unschoolers you
know are shallow and ignorant? Which of those things sparked your
interest?<g>
Deb L
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/4/03 5:37:14 AM, steveminninger@... writes:
<< 2) I know a lot of skills are covered in every day
living, but how do you actually cover basic skills so
that your child doesn't have these big gaps or
splinter skills?
"everyday living," but in the world at large) then it's not a real-life skill, is it?
What would a "splinter skill" be?
<< But I don't get a
sense of kids with lots of depth and breadth who are
unschooling. This scares me. I know there are
wonderful unschooling kids out there who do all kinds
of things, but they aren't the typical kids I have
met.>>
At what age are you measuring them for depth and breadth, and with what tools?
I think unschoolers have a kind of storing-up phase they go through (thinking
of those who never were in school) and when they're littlish, 7 to ten,
maybe, they might seem behind. Then all that stored up stuff starts to fit
together and they blossom HUGELY.
Sandra
<< 2) I know a lot of skills are covered in every day
living, but how do you actually cover basic skills so
that your child doesn't have these big gaps or
splinter skills?
>>If there's a skill that can't be covered in real life (not necessarily
"everyday living," but in the world at large) then it's not a real-life skill, is it?
What would a "splinter skill" be?
<< But I don't get a
sense of kids with lots of depth and breadth who are
unschooling. This scares me. I know there are
wonderful unschooling kids out there who do all kinds
of things, but they aren't the typical kids I have
met.>>
At what age are you measuring them for depth and breadth, and with what tools?
I think unschoolers have a kind of storing-up phase they go through (thinking
of those who never were in school) and when they're littlish, 7 to ten,
maybe, they might seem behind. Then all that stored up stuff starts to fit
together and they blossom HUGELY.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/4/03 5:37:14 AM, steveminninger@... writes:
<< 1) What if you have a child who is a poor speller?
Using a Franklin speller, dictionary, asking mom
doesn't seem to make much of a difference. If the
poor spelling skills bothers a child, is it ok to work
more deliberately on spelling? >>
I forgot this one.
There are lots of factors. It's not a simple question.
It is possible, worst-case scenario, for a parent to make a child feel
retarded and in need of remediation NOW, and HARD, and that if spelling doesn't come
within a short time frame, to the parent's imagined specifications, then life
is marred, scarred, ruined.
The worst things school can do, parents can do too.
If a child wants help, it is sometimes a desire to shush up the mom. "What
can I do, and how quickly, to get you to stop looking at me like I'm stupid?"
If parents can change from measuring and comparing to accepting and
encouraging, thousands of little switches are flipped, in parts of life you didn't even
know you had.
My husband learned to spell as an adult. Some others probably will then too.
Better for them to learn to spell as happy, confident adults than as stunted,
shamed adults.
Sandra
<< 1) What if you have a child who is a poor speller?
Using a Franklin speller, dictionary, asking mom
doesn't seem to make much of a difference. If the
poor spelling skills bothers a child, is it ok to work
more deliberately on spelling? >>
I forgot this one.
There are lots of factors. It's not a simple question.
It is possible, worst-case scenario, for a parent to make a child feel
retarded and in need of remediation NOW, and HARD, and that if spelling doesn't come
within a short time frame, to the parent's imagined specifications, then life
is marred, scarred, ruined.
The worst things school can do, parents can do too.
If a child wants help, it is sometimes a desire to shush up the mom. "What
can I do, and how quickly, to get you to stop looking at me like I'm stupid?"
If parents can change from measuring and comparing to accepting and
encouraging, thousands of little switches are flipped, in parts of life you didn't even
know you had.
My husband learned to spell as an adult. Some others probably will then too.
Better for them to learn to spell as happy, confident adults than as stunted,
shamed adults.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/4/2003 9:23:04 AM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
really great at getting the flow and memorizing what words look like, some
aren't. Shaming them and forcing them to practice won't change a thing.
Letting them blossom in their own way, in their own time produces the best
results.
Skills are meaningful only if learned because the learner wants/needs the
information.
My 13 y.o. is not the greatest speller, but he is now joyfully writing
stories and really interested in getting the words right..because it matters to him.
Not because I made him practice.
I have a BIL that is a poor speller. He has a very high paying job (in excess
of $100,000 per year plus bonuses) and is part owner in the company. I guess
spelling has nothing to do with future income potential!! :) I could share
other stories about poor spellers that are very successsful, each in their own
way, but I think you get the idea.
2) I know a lot of skills are covered in every day
living, but how do you actually cover basic skills so
that your child doesn't have these big gaps or
splinter skills?
I have no idea on earth what a "splinter skill" is, but if you mean bits of
knowledge that don't seem connected to anything else, well those are WONDERFUL!
Every thing in the whole wide world is connected, and kids will slowly piece
those bits together, as they are exposed to and explore the world.
All "basic" skills are covered in every day living...otherwise they wouldn't
be considered basics nor important for every day life!
People learn necessary bits of information by doing what they love, it's
being proven every day by unschooling families all over the world.
3) I am confused about unschooling vs. little
schooling. It is often hard for me to tell the
difference. I am not talking about anyone on this
list, so please don't take offense. But I don't get a
sense of kids with lots of depth and breadth who are
unschooling. This scares me. I know there are
wonderful unschooling kids out there who do all kinds
of things, but they aren't the typical kids I have
met.
Unschooling is NOT schooling...."little" schooling as you say, wouldn't be
unschooling. Unless the child is really wanting something school related, we
don't put it on them...ever. I have a six y.o. that positively loves workbooks.
But I don't get them out and ask her to do them, she gets them out and asks me
to help.
And I do. But I also find loads of fun things to do so she doesn't get all
obsessed with that type of experience and think that it equals learning and
other things don't!
As to the comment about unschoolers..I'm baffled!
If you're measuring them by the school yardstick, then I can see why you
think there is no "breadth and depth" as you say.
But depth is not measured by how much a person memorizes to jump through
hoops....it's measured by the quality of ones life. By the character of a person
and the interests they have.
Depth is when my 13 y.o. cuddles up with his two y.o. brother, or lovingly
cleans his face or puts him in the swing just because he loves him.
Depth is when my 6 and 2y.o. sip tea together and clink their teacups and say
"cheers". It's when (like last night) there are all six of us piled onto the
king size bed watching "Miss Universe" pagent and making comments on boobs and
butts and laughing. Measuring depth in a life is about how happy and
fulfilled people are!!
As to the "Breadth"...shouldn't that be about curiosity levels? Types of
interests? Different conversations a person can hold intelligently?
My 13y.o. can hold a conversation with so many different people, about so
many different topics it sometimes shocks me!! He is now learning things I have
no idea where the information comes from unless I ask him.
My 9y.o. is an obsessive artist. He knows about professional art materials,
how to use spray fixative, charcoal, kneaded erasers and watercolor pencils.
I bought a new printer yesterday. Trevor eagerly volunteered to set it all
up....which I was a little leary about. I just said "go for it, let me know if
you need me" and left the room. He had it connected, with ink cartridges in and
ready for the software to load before he had any questions! He'd never done
anything with a printer in his life, other than print pages from the internet.
So breadth has more to do with adaptability, bits of knowledge that allow a
person to connect pieces to other things with ease and willingness to try new
things in my book.
Unschoolers have unlimited interests, broad ranges of knowledge that are far
removed from academia! How cool.
They are learning about the real world, while their school counterparts are
memorizing bits of tedious crap that means nothing to them. When they are
adults, what is going to serve them better? The ability to adapt, be creative and
learn with joy, or have some memorized facts that may or may not have anything
to do with their fields of interest?
I'll take the former, thank you.
Ren
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> 1) What if you have a child who is a poor speller?What if you are an adult that is a poor speller? Big deal. Some people are
really great at getting the flow and memorizing what words look like, some
aren't. Shaming them and forcing them to practice won't change a thing.
Letting them blossom in their own way, in their own time produces the best
results.
Skills are meaningful only if learned because the learner wants/needs the
information.
My 13 y.o. is not the greatest speller, but he is now joyfully writing
stories and really interested in getting the words right..because it matters to him.
Not because I made him practice.
I have a BIL that is a poor speller. He has a very high paying job (in excess
of $100,000 per year plus bonuses) and is part owner in the company. I guess
spelling has nothing to do with future income potential!! :) I could share
other stories about poor spellers that are very successsful, each in their own
way, but I think you get the idea.
2) I know a lot of skills are covered in every day
living, but how do you actually cover basic skills so
that your child doesn't have these big gaps or
splinter skills?
I have no idea on earth what a "splinter skill" is, but if you mean bits of
knowledge that don't seem connected to anything else, well those are WONDERFUL!
Every thing in the whole wide world is connected, and kids will slowly piece
those bits together, as they are exposed to and explore the world.
All "basic" skills are covered in every day living...otherwise they wouldn't
be considered basics nor important for every day life!
People learn necessary bits of information by doing what they love, it's
being proven every day by unschooling families all over the world.
3) I am confused about unschooling vs. little
schooling. It is often hard for me to tell the
difference. I am not talking about anyone on this
list, so please don't take offense. But I don't get a
sense of kids with lots of depth and breadth who are
unschooling. This scares me. I know there are
wonderful unschooling kids out there who do all kinds
of things, but they aren't the typical kids I have
met.
Unschooling is NOT schooling...."little" schooling as you say, wouldn't be
unschooling. Unless the child is really wanting something school related, we
don't put it on them...ever. I have a six y.o. that positively loves workbooks.
But I don't get them out and ask her to do them, she gets them out and asks me
to help.
And I do. But I also find loads of fun things to do so she doesn't get all
obsessed with that type of experience and think that it equals learning and
other things don't!
As to the comment about unschoolers..I'm baffled!
If you're measuring them by the school yardstick, then I can see why you
think there is no "breadth and depth" as you say.
But depth is not measured by how much a person memorizes to jump through
hoops....it's measured by the quality of ones life. By the character of a person
and the interests they have.
Depth is when my 13 y.o. cuddles up with his two y.o. brother, or lovingly
cleans his face or puts him in the swing just because he loves him.
Depth is when my 6 and 2y.o. sip tea together and clink their teacups and say
"cheers". It's when (like last night) there are all six of us piled onto the
king size bed watching "Miss Universe" pagent and making comments on boobs and
butts and laughing. Measuring depth in a life is about how happy and
fulfilled people are!!
As to the "Breadth"...shouldn't that be about curiosity levels? Types of
interests? Different conversations a person can hold intelligently?
My 13y.o. can hold a conversation with so many different people, about so
many different topics it sometimes shocks me!! He is now learning things I have
no idea where the information comes from unless I ask him.
My 9y.o. is an obsessive artist. He knows about professional art materials,
how to use spray fixative, charcoal, kneaded erasers and watercolor pencils.
I bought a new printer yesterday. Trevor eagerly volunteered to set it all
up....which I was a little leary about. I just said "go for it, let me know if
you need me" and left the room. He had it connected, with ink cartridges in and
ready for the software to load before he had any questions! He'd never done
anything with a printer in his life, other than print pages from the internet.
So breadth has more to do with adaptability, bits of knowledge that allow a
person to connect pieces to other things with ease and willingness to try new
things in my book.
Unschoolers have unlimited interests, broad ranges of knowledge that are far
removed from academia! How cool.
They are learning about the real world, while their school counterparts are
memorizing bits of tedious crap that means nothing to them. When they are
adults, what is going to serve them better? The ability to adapt, be creative and
learn with joy, or have some memorized facts that may or may not have anything
to do with their fields of interest?
I'll take the former, thank you.
Ren
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cristina Kenski
Well said Ren, I totally agree ; )
Cris
Cris
Olga
Ren,
What a beautiful picutre of your life unschooling. Thanks for
sharing. These kinds of posts are a huge help to me right now.
olga :)
What a beautiful picutre of your life unschooling. Thanks for
sharing. These kinds of posts are a huge help to me right now.
olga :)
--- In [email protected], starsuncloud@c... wrote:
> In a message dated 6/4/2003 9:23:04 AM Central Daylight Time,
> [email protected] writes:
> > 1) What if you have a child who is a poor speller?
>
> What if you are an adult that is a poor speller? Big deal. Some
people are
> really great at getting the flow and memorizing what words look
like, some
> aren't. Shaming them and forcing them to practice won't change a
thing.
> Letting them blossom in their own way, in their own time produces
the best
> results.
> Skills are meaningful only if learned because the learner
wants/needs the
> information.
> My 13 y.o. is not the greatest speller, but he is now joyfully
writing
> stories and really interested in getting the words right..because
it matters to him.
> Not because I made him practice.
> I have a BIL that is a poor speller. He has a very high paying job
(in excess
> of $100,000 per year plus bonuses) and is part owner in the
company. I guess
> spelling has nothing to do with future income potential!! :) I
could share
> other stories about poor spellers that are very successsful, each
in their own
> way, but I think you get the idea.
>
> 2) I know a lot of skills are covered in every day
> living, but how do you actually cover basic skills so
> that your child doesn't have these big gaps or
> splinter skills?
>
> I have no idea on earth what a "splinter skill" is, but if you mean
bits of
> knowledge that don't seem connected to anything else, well those
are WONDERFUL!
> Every thing in the whole wide world is connected, and kids will
slowly piece
> those bits together, as they are exposed to and explore the world.
> All "basic" skills are covered in every day living...otherwise they
wouldn't
> be considered basics nor important for every day life!
> People learn necessary bits of information by doing what they love,
it's
> being proven every day by unschooling families all over the world.
>
> 3) I am confused about unschooling vs. little
> schooling. It is often hard for me to tell the
> difference. I am not talking about anyone on this
> list, so please don't take offense. But I don't get a
> sense of kids with lots of depth and breadth who are
> unschooling. This scares me. I know there are
> wonderful unschooling kids out there who do all kinds
> of things, but they aren't the typical kids I have
> met.
>
> Unschooling is NOT schooling...."little" schooling as you say,
wouldn't be
> unschooling. Unless the child is really wanting something school
related, we
> don't put it on them...ever. I have a six y.o. that positively
loves workbooks.
> But I don't get them out and ask her to do them, she gets them out
and asks me
> to help.
> And I do. But I also find loads of fun things to do so she doesn't
get all
> obsessed with that type of experience and think that it equals
learning and
> other things don't!
>
> As to the comment about unschoolers..I'm baffled!
> If you're measuring them by the school yardstick, then I can see
why you
> think there is no "breadth and depth" as you say.
> But depth is not measured by how much a person memorizes to jump
through
> hoops....it's measured by the quality of ones life. By the
character of a person
> and the interests they have.
> Depth is when my 13 y.o. cuddles up with his two y.o. brother, or
lovingly
> cleans his face or puts him in the swing just because he loves him.
> Depth is when my 6 and 2y.o. sip tea together and clink their
teacups and say
> "cheers". It's when (like last night) there are all six of us piled
onto the
> king size bed watching "Miss Universe" pagent and making comments
on boobs and
> butts and laughing. Measuring depth in a life is about how happy
and
> fulfilled people are!!
>
> As to the "Breadth"...shouldn't that be about curiosity levels?
Types of
> interests? Different conversations a person can hold intelligently?
> My 13y.o. can hold a conversation with so many different people,
about so
> many different topics it sometimes shocks me!! He is now learning
things I have
> no idea where the information comes from unless I ask him.
> My 9y.o. is an obsessive artist. He knows about professional art
materials,
> how to use spray fixative, charcoal, kneaded erasers and watercolor
pencils.
> I bought a new printer yesterday. Trevor eagerly volunteered to set
it all
> up....which I was a little leary about. I just said "go for it, let
me know if
> you need me" and left the room. He had it connected, with ink
cartridges in and
> ready for the software to load before he had any questions! He'd
never done
> anything with a printer in his life, other than print pages from
the internet.
> So breadth has more to do with adaptability, bits of knowledge that
allow a
> person to connect pieces to other things with ease and willingness
to try new
> things in my book.
>
> Unschoolers have unlimited interests, broad ranges of knowledge
that are far
> removed from academia! How cool.
> They are learning about the real world, while their school
counterparts are
> memorizing bits of tedious crap that means nothing to them. When
they are
> adults, what is going to serve them better? The ability to adapt,
be creative and
> learn with joy, or have some memorized facts that may or may not
have anything
> to do with their fields of interest?
> I'll take the former, thank you.
>
> Ren
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]