the hormonal monkey jungle
zenmomma *
I was wondering if some of you more experienced parents might share a little
with me about the nature of 12/13 year olds. Boys specifically. (For now.)
Conor is in the midst of all the hormonal/moody/sensitive/pulling away from
us stuff. I feel like I need more input from other families as to what to
expect in the upcoming years. It's sometimes hard for me to recognize what
is normal pre-teen angst and what might be depression rearing its' ugly head
again.
Thanks.
~Mary
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with me about the nature of 12/13 year olds. Boys specifically. (For now.)
Conor is in the midst of all the hormonal/moody/sensitive/pulling away from
us stuff. I feel like I need more input from other families as to what to
expect in the upcoming years. It's sometimes hard for me to recognize what
is normal pre-teen angst and what might be depression rearing its' ugly head
again.
Thanks.
~Mary
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Sharon Rudd
It's sometimes hard
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> for me to recognize whatAGAIN........????
> is normal pre-teen angst and what might be
> depression rearing its' ugly head
> again.
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zenmomma *
>It's sometimes hardYeah, again. Depression runs in our family and Conor's already been hit with
> > for me to recognize what
> > is normal pre-teen angst and what might be
> > depression rearing its' ugly head
> > again.
>
>AGAIN........????
it. It's not fun, so I'm always on guard.
~Mary
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Mary,
I have an almost 14 year old son, Cameron. I don't know what you need but I'd
be happy to share .
Kelly
I have an almost 14 year old son, Cameron. I don't know what you need but I'd
be happy to share .
Kelly
Tia Leschke
At 05:35 PM 23/12/2001 -0500, you wrote:
he seems to be moving back toward closeness again, but in his own way of
course.
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
>Mary,And I've got one who turned 14 in October. Ask away. For what it's worth,
>
>I have an almost 14 year old son, Cameron. I don't know what you need but I'd
>be happy to share .
he seems to be moving back toward closeness again, but in his own way of
course.
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
Sharon Rudd
Oh Mary......deprssion,bummer.
I have 4 sons. Ages 29, 26, 21, and 8. Of the oldest
three, the oldest married at 21, the second has a
live-in girlfriend, of 4 years (think 4) and the 21
year old's girlfried moved in with him last week. The
oldest is my most angst-driven. He is the
"super-genious" Scorpio with off and on overwhelming
futility-itis. Still, he's doing OK, anyway. Having
others to care for (his wife, a horse, dogs, cats,
various other animals) and music, and (the Toa would
come closest to describing it) a spiritual self helps
him get through.
With all of the boys, 13 was the most obnoxious age.
But it did get done. 14 was a WONDERFUL age. Like 4
and 9....The younger self is still visible, but you
can actualy see what is comming next. 13 is just so
sullen and unformed. Sarcasim seems to be the only
humor (blah...it is so painful). But even this shall
pass. Hang in there. The person in danger of
depression is Mama. Any non-stop pain can use up
seratonin and there you are. And 13 can sure be a
non-stop unrelenting pain. Using whatever he can
(usually Mam's feelings) to push against to break free
from childhood...only, in reality, he can't....it is
there, inside, forever. But kids feel like they have
to, so there is this unbearable need to push away from
the very supports that are essential. Makes for a
wobbly structure. For a while. But if you can hang on,
it does pass. Just remember, he is your baby. You do
love him. (You know, a face only a Mama could love) If
he has plenty to do, then even he might not notice, so
much. Music helped us. Still does.
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I have 4 sons. Ages 29, 26, 21, and 8. Of the oldest
three, the oldest married at 21, the second has a
live-in girlfriend, of 4 years (think 4) and the 21
year old's girlfried moved in with him last week. The
oldest is my most angst-driven. He is the
"super-genious" Scorpio with off and on overwhelming
futility-itis. Still, he's doing OK, anyway. Having
others to care for (his wife, a horse, dogs, cats,
various other animals) and music, and (the Toa would
come closest to describing it) a spiritual self helps
him get through.
With all of the boys, 13 was the most obnoxious age.
But it did get done. 14 was a WONDERFUL age. Like 4
and 9....The younger self is still visible, but you
can actualy see what is comming next. 13 is just so
sullen and unformed. Sarcasim seems to be the only
humor (blah...it is so painful). But even this shall
pass. Hang in there. The person in danger of
depression is Mama. Any non-stop pain can use up
seratonin and there you are. And 13 can sure be a
non-stop unrelenting pain. Using whatever he can
(usually Mam's feelings) to push against to break free
from childhood...only, in reality, he can't....it is
there, inside, forever. But kids feel like they have
to, so there is this unbearable need to push away from
the very supports that are essential. Makes for a
wobbly structure. For a while. But if you can hang on,
it does pass. Just remember, he is your baby. You do
love him. (You know, a face only a Mama could love) If
he has plenty to do, then even he might not notice, so
much. Music helped us. Still does.
> >It's sometimes hard_________________________________________________________________
> > > for me to recognize what
> > > is normal pre-teen angst and what might be
> > > depression rearing its' ugly head
> > > again.
> >
> >AGAIN........????
>
> Yeah, again. Depression runs in our family and
> Conor's already been hit with
> it. It's not fun, so I'm always on guard.
>
> ~Mary
>
>
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger:__________________________________________________
> http://messenger.msn.com
>
>
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Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
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Tia Leschke
>I tell young women that they really need to have their self-esteem in order
>With all of the boys, 13 was the most obnoxious age.
>But it did get done. 14 was a WONDERFUL age. Like 4
>and 9....The younger self is still visible, but you
>can actualy see what is comming next. 13 is just so
>sullen and unformed. Sarcasim seems to be the only
>humor (blah...it is so painful). But even this shall
>pass. Hang in there. The person in danger of
>depression is Mama. Any non-stop pain can use up
>seratonin and there you are. And 13 can sure be a
>non-stop unrelenting pain. Using whatever he can
>(usually Mam's feelings) to push against to break free
>from childhood...only, in reality, he can't....it is
>there, inside, forever. But kids feel like they have
>to, so there is this unbearable need to push away from
>the very supports that are essential. Makes for a
>wobbly structure. For a while. But if you can hang on,
>it does pass. Just remember, he is your baby. You do
>love him. (You know, a face only a Mama could love) If
>he has plenty to do, then even he might not notice, so
>much. Music helped us. Still does.
before they have kids, because their teenagers will destroy most of
it. <g> And yes, 13 is the worst, at least it has been with the one I've
gotten to raise full-time rather than sharing with an ex. And 14 so far
has been *much* better.
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/25/01 4:58:54 PM, leschke@... writes:
<< I tell young women that they really need to have their self-esteem in
order
before they have kids, because their teenagers will destroy most of
it. <g> And yes, 13 is the worst >>
hm another reason to be glad to have waited until I was 36 for my first?
Good. Nick is 12, will be 13 in August. I'd be nervous reading what you
have to say about this...except that people predicted terrible twos which I
saw none of either ;-)
We'll see.
Sharon
<< I tell young women that they really need to have their self-esteem in
order
before they have kids, because their teenagers will destroy most of
it. <g> And yes, 13 is the worst >>
hm another reason to be glad to have waited until I was 36 for my first?
Good. Nick is 12, will be 13 in August. I'd be nervous reading what you
have to say about this...except that people predicted terrible twos which I
saw none of either ;-)
We'll see.
Sharon
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/25/01 4:25:38 PM, sharonve@... writes:
<< I'd be nervous reading what you
have to say about this...except that people predicted terrible twos which I
saw none of either ;-) >>
I had sweet two-year-olds and obstructionist three and fours, from time to
time.
Kirby was rough at 12, but he was crowded at the old house and we moved.
Marty's sweet at 12; he'll be thirteen in three weeks (January 14). He told
me today that he's bigger than Kirby. That Kirby hadn't believed it but they
stood up next to one another and Marty's taller.
Marty's been verbal and rational about his blossoming adolescence. He said,
"Mom, it's just sometimes we really want to get away from you." He said it
sweetly and calmly. And he will apologize if he's short with someone.
Kirby's still quick to anger, at 15, although I see the man in him from time
to time now. He was mean to Marty the other night about being in his room
watching TV when he could've watched it elsewhere. Kirby had been gone an
yway, but the minute he got home he wanted the house rearranged for his
convenience.
I understand that urge, personally.
But I shamed him some, and then went and made Kirby's arguments to Marty, and
in the absence of a direct confrontation, each could admit the other had good
points. And it got two "thank yous" out of Kirby in the next hour or two.
I think sloughing off as much of their tackiness as possible is good.
Breathe, leave, come back and say ONE thing maybe, and not a cutting
life-wounding thing if you can restrain yourself.
They're usually patient with my menopausal grumpy older-mom self, and I
should have the awareness and understanding to remember my own adolescence
and not crush them just because I have the urge and the ability.
Some parents (not this group, but thoughtless relatives of mine come to mind)
think being the adult means having the power, having the rights, keeping
control. I think it's having the awareness and the responsibility and the
patience and the maturity. In any meeting/conversation/conflict between me
and a young teen, it's not a 50/50 situation. I have more experience and
verbal power and authority, and I need to handicap myself in the discussion
to give the kid a fair shot at making his point.
I'm just rambling, but maybe a phrase or two will help someone still worried.
Sandra
<< I'd be nervous reading what you
have to say about this...except that people predicted terrible twos which I
saw none of either ;-) >>
I had sweet two-year-olds and obstructionist three and fours, from time to
time.
Kirby was rough at 12, but he was crowded at the old house and we moved.
Marty's sweet at 12; he'll be thirteen in three weeks (January 14). He told
me today that he's bigger than Kirby. That Kirby hadn't believed it but they
stood up next to one another and Marty's taller.
Marty's been verbal and rational about his blossoming adolescence. He said,
"Mom, it's just sometimes we really want to get away from you." He said it
sweetly and calmly. And he will apologize if he's short with someone.
Kirby's still quick to anger, at 15, although I see the man in him from time
to time now. He was mean to Marty the other night about being in his room
watching TV when he could've watched it elsewhere. Kirby had been gone an
yway, but the minute he got home he wanted the house rearranged for his
convenience.
I understand that urge, personally.
But I shamed him some, and then went and made Kirby's arguments to Marty, and
in the absence of a direct confrontation, each could admit the other had good
points. And it got two "thank yous" out of Kirby in the next hour or two.
I think sloughing off as much of their tackiness as possible is good.
Breathe, leave, come back and say ONE thing maybe, and not a cutting
life-wounding thing if you can restrain yourself.
They're usually patient with my menopausal grumpy older-mom self, and I
should have the awareness and understanding to remember my own adolescence
and not crush them just because I have the urge and the ability.
Some parents (not this group, but thoughtless relatives of mine come to mind)
think being the adult means having the power, having the rights, keeping
control. I think it's having the awareness and the responsibility and the
patience and the maturity. In any meeting/conversation/conflict between me
and a young teen, it's not a 50/50 situation. I have more experience and
verbal power and authority, and I need to handicap myself in the discussion
to give the kid a fair shot at making his point.
I'm just rambling, but maybe a phrase or two will help someone still worried.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/25/2001 6:25:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
sharonve@... writes:
Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sharonve@... writes:
> except that people predicted terrible twos which I"Terrible Twos". Two's a myth. Three's reality.
> saw none of either ;-)
>
>
Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/25/2001 6:44:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
the boys are coming from. I think, too, that since we have the experience, we
should "give" a little.
So many people change, the minute they become parents, into authority figures
that demand kids' submission (all kids, not just their own---and some don't
even need to be parents, but I've found it more in my parenting friends than
in the childless ones). It's like they forget what it was like to be 4 or 9
or 15. I ask my husband all the time, "Don't you remember what it was like to
be ...?" He honestly doesn't remember. Now he often asks me what 5 or 13 was
like, just in case. I realize most people can't remember what it was like to
be 2, but you can certainly imagine how tough it can be with limited verbal
and physical skills---it's GOT to be hard!
I agree with the handicapping--at a minimum to see the child/teen's point of
view.
Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> Some parents (not this group, but thoughtless relatives of mine come toI tell my husband, "YOU'RE the adult!" when he can't seem to understand where
> mind)
> think being the adult means having the power, having the rights, keeping
> control. I think it's having the awareness and the responsibility and the
> patience and the maturity. In any meeting/conversation/conflict between me
>
> and a young teen, it's not a 50/50 situation. I have more experience and
> verbal power and authority, and I need to handicap myself in the discussion
>
> to give the kid a fair shot at making his point.
>
>
the boys are coming from. I think, too, that since we have the experience, we
should "give" a little.
So many people change, the minute they become parents, into authority figures
that demand kids' submission (all kids, not just their own---and some don't
even need to be parents, but I've found it more in my parenting friends than
in the childless ones). It's like they forget what it was like to be 4 or 9
or 15. I ask my husband all the time, "Don't you remember what it was like to
be ...?" He honestly doesn't remember. Now he often asks me what 5 or 13 was
like, just in case. I realize most people can't remember what it was like to
be 2, but you can certainly imagine how tough it can be with limited verbal
and physical skills---it's GOT to be hard!
I agree with the handicapping--at a minimum to see the child/teen's point of
view.
Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
zenmomma *
>>I had sweet two-year-olds and obstructionist three and fours, from time toThis was my experience, too. Based on that, I guess I'll just prepare for 13
>>time.>>
to be a little harder than 12 has been (which, other than the depression,
hasn't been bad).
Do you all believe that mindful parenting, really talking and being with our
kids makes a difference during this time. Or do those hormose just take
over? I keep thinking that the whole unschooling lifestyle should make it
all a bit different from the "normal" families' teen experience. After all,
I'll actually listen to him, he'll have many more choices, time to be alone,
etc.
What's everyone's opinion on this?
~Mary
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In a message dated 12/26/01 2:53:17 AM, kbcdlovejo@... writes:
<< It's like they forget what it was like to be 4 or 9
or 15. I ask my husband all the time, "Don't you remember what it was like to
be ...?" He honestly doesn't remember. >>
I used to ask other teachers sometimes when I was surprised at their being
mean (teasing kind of stuff). One math teacher--stereotypical veteran,
redneck, humorless math teacher--making fun of a girl for having a boyfriend,
and I saw the hurt and embarrassment on her face. I went after and said
"Don't you remember what it was like to be fourteen?" He paused a minute,
really thinking, and said, "No."
Eeeek! And teaching 9th grade...
My husband's best and clearest childhood memories seem to involve being away
from his house. He never remembers what gifts he got for Christmas or
birthdays. I feel sorry for him some, but on the other hand, remembering
comes with sorrow sometimes too, and he has very little sorrow in him.
Sandra
<< It's like they forget what it was like to be 4 or 9
or 15. I ask my husband all the time, "Don't you remember what it was like to
be ...?" He honestly doesn't remember. >>
I used to ask other teachers sometimes when I was surprised at their being
mean (teasing kind of stuff). One math teacher--stereotypical veteran,
redneck, humorless math teacher--making fun of a girl for having a boyfriend,
and I saw the hurt and embarrassment on her face. I went after and said
"Don't you remember what it was like to be fourteen?" He paused a minute,
really thinking, and said, "No."
Eeeek! And teaching 9th grade...
My husband's best and clearest childhood memories seem to involve being away
from his house. He never remembers what gifts he got for Christmas or
birthdays. I feel sorry for him some, but on the other hand, remembering
comes with sorrow sometimes too, and he has very little sorrow in him.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/26/01 7:22:52 AM, zenmomma@... writes:
<< Do you all believe that mindful parenting, really talking and being with
our
kids makes a difference during this time. Or do those hormose just take
over? >>
I think the memories and relationship have to make a difference. If I had
been cruel to Kirby, and really limited his movements and tried to limit his
thoughts, then when the hormones were upon him, looking through those
surge-colored glasses I would look monstrous, rather than just kind of old
and irritating.
And some kids get it worse than others, just like some women cruise through
PMS and pregnancy and menopause with not much more than light cramps and the
awareness of bloating and some rival the banshees.
Sandra
<< Do you all believe that mindful parenting, really talking and being with
our
kids makes a difference during this time. Or do those hormose just take
over? >>
I think the memories and relationship have to make a difference. If I had
been cruel to Kirby, and really limited his movements and tried to limit his
thoughts, then when the hormones were upon him, looking through those
surge-colored glasses I would look monstrous, rather than just kind of old
and irritating.
And some kids get it worse than others, just like some women cruise through
PMS and pregnancy and menopause with not much more than light cramps and the
awareness of bloating and some rival the banshees.
Sandra
Joylyn
>two has always been sweet, but I'm living the
> >
>
> "Terrible Twos". Two's a myth. Three's
> reality.
horrible threes now.
I have always found three more difficult that
two.
Joylyn
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
>It's not age. I turned 39 a month after Lars was born. But my self-esteem
>
>hm another reason to be glad to have waited until I was 36 for my first?
>Good. Nick is 12, will be 13 in August. I'd be nervous reading what you
>have to say about this...except that people predicted terrible twos which I
>saw none of either ;-)
has never really recovered from my school (and big sister) experience. I
have huge problems with rejection. (I guess that's why I'm a writer. The
rejections come in the mail rather than in person....<g>)
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
Tia Leschke
>Lars passed his dad last summer. We just found out last night that he's
>
>Marty's sweet at 12; he'll be thirteen in three weeks (January 14). He told
>me today that he's bigger than Kirby. That Kirby hadn't believed it but they
>stood up next to one another and Marty's taller.
passed one of his uncles and caught up with the other one. He still has a
taller older brother (different dad), but I don't think it will be
long. We didn't measure yet, but the uncle he past is 6' 2".
>They're usually patient with my menopausal grumpy older-mom self, and II had never thought of if quite this way, so thanks. I think it will help
>should have the awareness and understanding to remember my own adolescence
>and not crush them just because I have the urge and the ability.
>
>Some parents (not this group, but thoughtless relatives of mine come to mind)
>think being the adult means having the power, having the rights, keeping
>control. I think it's having the awareness and the responsibility and the
>patience and the maturity. In any meeting/conversation/conflict between me
>and a young teen, it's not a 50/50 situation. I have more experience and
>verbal power and authority, and I need to handicap myself in the discussion
>to give the kid a fair shot at making his point.
>
>I'm just rambling, but maybe a phrase or two will help someone still worried.
me in our interactions, even if the worst *is* (I hope) over.
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
Tia Leschke
>That's what I thought, so it hit me by surprise. Our other kids did most
>
>Do you all believe that mindful parenting, really talking and being with our
>kids makes a difference during this time. Or do those hormose just take
>over? I keep thinking that the whole unschooling lifestyle should make it
>all a bit different from the "normal" families' teen experience. After all,
>I'll actually listen to him, he'll have many more choices, time to be alone,
>etc.
of their teen years with the other parent. This is the first one we've had
all the way through.
One difference between Lars and other unschooled teens is that his friends
all go to school. He just hasn't ever hit it off with the unschooled teens
in town, and there aren't any where we live. (I just found out that one of
his biking buddies is doing correspondance, though, so he isn't in school
but isn't unschooled.) I don't know how much his schooled friends have
influenced his attitude toward us. It probably isn't that much, and he
really is a good kid most of the time.
Also, like Sandra, we're doing the puberty and menopause thing at the same
time. You couple that with my self-esteem issues and the sparks do fly.
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
Tia Leschke
>Me too. Twos can be so comical in their refusals. I've had twos refuse
>
>two has always been sweet, but I'm living the
>horrible threes now.
>I have always found three more difficult that
>two.
ice cream, just to assert their autonomy. <g>
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/26/2001 9:22:33 AM Eastern Standard Time,
zenmomma@... writes:
Cameron's friends in school are horribly sleep-deprived! They're up no later
than 6:30. If they have no afterschool activities, they're home around
4-4:30; with sports/band/drama/whatever it may be 6-7pm. Homework takes 3-4
hours. Then there's supper. Their natural urge to stay up late kicks in about
11 or so---and then it's up again at 6! How can they be expected to function?
Most adults don't have that kind of schedule!
They're not known for their excellent eating habits at school (besides, who
can eat AND socialize in 20 minutes?).
So far we haven't had the troubles we've seen in his schooled friends'
families (although that's hard to judge, because even when Cam was in school,
life here didn't seem that bad to him). I think if you have what it takes to
unschool ANYWAY, the other things won't seem as insurmountable! The lifestyle
just lends itself to understanding and being willing to back off when you
need to (and you don't HAVE to yell that he knew about that project two weeks
ago so why didn't he get started THEN!). It just makes gentler parenting an
easier option!
I'm right in your boat. Cameron turns 14 in 4 weeks. We haven't seen much of
the hormonal monkey jungle yet, but we're stocking up on bananas anyway.
Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
zenmomma@... writes:
> Do you all believe that mindful parenting, really talking and being with ourI think one of the biggies is the time to SLEEP. I think that most of
>
> kids makes a difference during this time. Or do those hormose just take
> over? I keep thinking that the whole unschooling lifestyle should make it
> all a bit different from the "normal" families' teen experience. After all,
>
> I'll actually listen to him, he'll have many more choices, time to be
> alone,
> etc.
>
Cameron's friends in school are horribly sleep-deprived! They're up no later
than 6:30. If they have no afterschool activities, they're home around
4-4:30; with sports/band/drama/whatever it may be 6-7pm. Homework takes 3-4
hours. Then there's supper. Their natural urge to stay up late kicks in about
11 or so---and then it's up again at 6! How can they be expected to function?
Most adults don't have that kind of schedule!
They're not known for their excellent eating habits at school (besides, who
can eat AND socialize in 20 minutes?).
So far we haven't had the troubles we've seen in his schooled friends'
families (although that's hard to judge, because even when Cam was in school,
life here didn't seem that bad to him). I think if you have what it takes to
unschool ANYWAY, the other things won't seem as insurmountable! The lifestyle
just lends itself to understanding and being willing to back off when you
need to (and you don't HAVE to yell that he knew about that project two weeks
ago so why didn't he get started THEN!). It just makes gentler parenting an
easier option!
I'm right in your boat. Cameron turns 14 in 4 weeks. We haven't seen much of
the hormonal monkey jungle yet, but we're stocking up on bananas anyway.
Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sharon Rudd
I think it will help
Sharon of the Swamp
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> me in our interactions, even if the worst *is* (IThe worst is almost always over......
> hope) over.
Sharon of the Swamp
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Cindy
Tia Leschke wrote:
he was 2 was the worst - he quit nursing then and for several months my
hormones were in a tailspin! Now I'm doing better with the menopause
thing and he's 4 - which is probably more challenging or at least is
with this one.
I've also been fighting self-esteem issues and depression. I do try to
keep those as *my* problems but it does affect their lives too.
--
Cindy Ferguson
crma@...
>I've been doing the menopause thing with a toddler/preschooler. The year
> Also, like Sandra, we're doing the puberty and menopause thing at the same
> time. You couple that with my self-esteem issues and the sparks do fly.
>
he was 2 was the worst - he quit nursing then and for several months my
hormones were in a tailspin! Now I'm doing better with the menopause
thing and he's 4 - which is probably more challenging or at least is
with this one.
I've also been fighting self-esteem issues and depression. I do try to
keep those as *my* problems but it does affect their lives too.
--
Cindy Ferguson
crma@...
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/26/2001 10:46:50 AM Pacific Standard Time,
leschke@... writes:
(now-17 yo) say "NO!!!!" -- while she reached for it <BEG>.
--pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
leschke@... writes:
> Me too. Twos can be so comical in their refusals. I've had twos refuseI remember that we used to buy ice cream cones, just so we could hear Roya
> ice cream, just to assert their autonomy. <g>
(now-17 yo) say "NO!!!!" -- while she reached for it <BEG>.
--pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joylyn
PSoroosh@... wrote:
That child still will refuse something she
wants just to refuse.
The funniest is when she refuses to cuzzle
(and she loves to cuzzle, our word for
nursing) because "I'm not tired and cuzzling
makes me go to sleep!"
Joylyn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I remember that we used to buy ice creamPam, are you talking about Roya or Janene?
> cones, just so we could hear Roya
> (now-17 yo) say "NO!!!!" -- while she
> reached for it <BEG>.
>
> --pam
That child still will refuse something she
wants just to refuse.
The funniest is when she refuses to cuzzle
(and she loves to cuzzle, our word for
nursing) because "I'm not tired and cuzzling
makes me go to sleep!"
Joylyn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sharon Rudd
Been peri-menopausal FOREVER!!Roy was born when I was
45. Moses was 15.
I've had little ceremonies (just me) when I thought
that FINALLY all had stabilized and I was DONE. I
burned all stained underwear and did a little dance of
thanksgiving, only to have my body decide to have
another go. Been a year without, now, again.
Ya'll know how premarin is produced? I flat refuse to
take it. (Can't anyway, so the gesture isn't as pure
as it should be). Phytoestrogens will have to do.
What is that phenomena when things fly around in a
household, apparently on their own? Isn't it related
to the undercurrents of mother and pubescent
daughters?
Sharon of the Swamp (who has no idea what the
temperature actually is)
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45. Moses was 15.
I've had little ceremonies (just me) when I thought
that FINALLY all had stabilized and I was DONE. I
burned all stained underwear and did a little dance of
thanksgiving, only to have my body decide to have
another go. Been a year without, now, again.
Ya'll know how premarin is produced? I flat refuse to
take it. (Can't anyway, so the gesture isn't as pure
as it should be). Phytoestrogens will have to do.
What is that phenomena when things fly around in a
household, apparently on their own? Isn't it related
to the undercurrents of mother and pubescent
daughters?
Sharon of the Swamp (who has no idea what the
temperature actually is)
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/28/01 9:39:48 AM, bearspawprint@... writes:
<< What is that phenomena when things fly around in a
household, apparently on their own? Isn't it related
to the undercurrents of mother and pubescent
daughters? >>
Poltergeists.
Swami Beyondananda does a joke about Colonel Sanders being haunted by the
ghosts of chickens--PoultryGeists.
<< What is that phenomena when things fly around in a
household, apparently on their own? Isn't it related
to the undercurrents of mother and pubescent
daughters? >>
Poltergeists.
Swami Beyondananda does a joke about Colonel Sanders being haunted by the
ghosts of chickens--PoultryGeists.