music and teachers
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/15/03 6:00:35 AM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< I'm so grateful for that guitar teacher, Erin didn't even worry about the
piano experience because she was so musically inspired. She stood up for
herself too, and politely told the piano teacher that it wasn't working out
for her. She didn't ask me to sort it out for her. >>
Great story Kerrin!
Your dd obviously is better off self teaching than with a lame teacher like
that. Yuck.
Trevor has a guitar teacher much like the one you described.
The first place we called told us he couldn't play the music he liked until
he had "the basics" down. We didn't sign up.
The guy he is with teaches him the songs Trevor wants to learn and he's
getting the basics through doing what he loves. He practices every day
without me ever saying a thing. He loves it.
Funny thing is, the first guitar place we called made snooty remarks about
the place we ended up at. And Jerry (his teacher) has toured with many
notable musicians, Shania Twain among them!!! Guess they're a bit intimidated
by a teacher that lets the kids learn what they want and is obviously a
really great player himself. sheesh.
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
[email protected] writes:
<< I'm so grateful for that guitar teacher, Erin didn't even worry about the
piano experience because she was so musically inspired. She stood up for
herself too, and politely told the piano teacher that it wasn't working out
for her. She didn't ask me to sort it out for her. >>
Great story Kerrin!
Your dd obviously is better off self teaching than with a lame teacher like
that. Yuck.
Trevor has a guitar teacher much like the one you described.
The first place we called told us he couldn't play the music he liked until
he had "the basics" down. We didn't sign up.
The guy he is with teaches him the songs Trevor wants to learn and he's
getting the basics through doing what he loves. He practices every day
without me ever saying a thing. He loves it.
Funny thing is, the first guitar place we called made snooty remarks about
the place we ended up at. And Jerry (his teacher) has toured with many
notable musicians, Shania Twain among them!!! Guess they're a bit intimidated
by a teacher that lets the kids learn what they want and is obviously a
really great player himself. sheesh.
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
Alan & Brenda Leonard
It's taken me a while to respond to this post; I had to stop screaming at
the computer. I realize it's not my computer's fault about the piano
teacher, but it took it well. <g>
next generation of violin virtuosos, I'm teaching the next generation of
music lovers, concert goers, and parents who share the joy of music-making.
there. I tend to just drop those sort of kids after while, but it's not my
family's sole livelihood. I don't have to teach to live. Not everyone has
that option, so they continue to deal with the problems of students whose
parents pay the bills and don't ask why their child isn't getting any
better.
a lot of experience and think I'm worth a decent amount. You can get
cheaper lessons from a college student perhaps, but you miss out on all that
I've learned in the last 16 years. I do make exceptions, but you have to
ask.
And the brutal, sad truth is that yes, students cancel at the last minute
all the time and it's hard to collect the money for those lessons. I'm
paying a babysitter, room rent sometimes, and have set aside a time, so I
charge for missed lessons, too. But I do try hard to be flexible about
them. That's not to defend her being inappropriate, which I think she was
in many ways, but wanting to be paid for missed lessons is like making an
appointment with your plummer and then not being home. He still had to
drive out there, and reserved that time which could have been used for other
people who wanted him, so he expects to be paid anyway.
I hope that your daughter continues to enjoy her really cool guitar teacher,
and that she eventually finds a piano teacher that's a lot easier to deal
with! And finally, congratulations to your daughter for standing up for her
rights!
brenda
the computer. I realize it's not my computer's fault about the piano
teacher, but it took it well. <g>
> I don't see how this kind of music teacher is going to pass on any love ofI'd have to agree with that. I always tell people that I'm not teaching the
> music to her students.
next generation of violin virtuosos, I'm teaching the next generation of
music lovers, concert goers, and parents who share the joy of music-making.
> I think sheAlso discouraged. It's very tiring to teach kids who don't want to be
> is so used to students who are forced to be there, who are not enjoying the
> music that she has just become jaded.
there. I tend to just drop those sort of kids after while, but it's not my
family's sole livelihood. I don't have to teach to live. Not everyone has
that option, so they continue to deal with the problems of students whose
parents pay the bills and don't ask why their child isn't getting any
better.
> She charges an inflated price andI don't know her situation, but I charge what the market will bear. I have
> assumes that students won't practice and that she's going to have trouble
> getting her money.
a lot of experience and think I'm worth a decent amount. You can get
cheaper lessons from a college student perhaps, but you miss out on all that
I've learned in the last 16 years. I do make exceptions, but you have to
ask.
And the brutal, sad truth is that yes, students cancel at the last minute
all the time and it's hard to collect the money for those lessons. I'm
paying a babysitter, room rent sometimes, and have set aside a time, so I
charge for missed lessons, too. But I do try hard to be flexible about
them. That's not to defend her being inappropriate, which I think she was
in many ways, but wanting to be paid for missed lessons is like making an
appointment with your plummer and then not being home. He still had to
drive out there, and reserved that time which could have been used for other
people who wanted him, so he expects to be paid anyway.
I hope that your daughter continues to enjoy her really cool guitar teacher,
and that she eventually finds a piano teacher that's a lot easier to deal
with! And finally, congratulations to your daughter for standing up for her
rights!
brenda
[email protected]
Holly and Marty are upstairs listening to the whole of Purple Rain after I
showed them two or three bits to illustrate things we'd been discussing. We
had connections to Cyndi Lauper, to Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back, to
Minneapolis, to the 80's in general, and to voices.
Holly said Prince has a funny voice. I hadn't thought so, and asked "like
what?"
Not strong, funny quality. She couldn't describe it.
I said I thought he was a better guitarist and songwriter than singer, but
that as he was a really great performer, the quality of his voice wasn't the
main feature. She understood that.
We talked about drums and bass some, about creating a mood--jittery, or
unbalanced, or sexy.
That album has great and intentional examples of all those.
Holly asked if the story was true, of the movie. She hasn't seen it, but I
told her his dad in the movie is violent and then attempts suicide and that's
why the title song is sad. I told her I didn't think it was biographical,
totally. Just kind vaguely similar, maybe. That his dad was a musician, and
the dad in the movie had written lots of music but never became a successful
musician. (Sometime I'll check and let her know.)
And then she asked if it was a true story that a guy was able to write music
totally down without using a piano or instrument. I stopped and ran through
stories she might be thinking of. I said lots of people can learn to do
that, once they're experienced at writing it down. I told her about
Beethoven writing orchestral stuff after he was deaf. She was impressed.
But I told her lots of people can write music down.
Before that we had been listening to Donovan, because Holly was singing
"First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is" when
heavy clouds were covering the Sandias, then they would peek through, then
more clouds. She asked who did that song and asked if it was Herman's
Hermits.
I said no, Donovan, the same guy I had mentioned the day before...
And THAT story had been told in reference to how much input a person can
handle at once--different people different amounts and different kinds.
It's hard to describe and impossible to guarantee how Cyndi Lauper and Silent
Bob can lead to a discussion of Beethoven, but it happened here today.
Last night Holly wanted me to tell her the story of Hamlet. I gave her a 20
minute version and had it all in order (surprised myself) except I got a
little confused about when Claudius
is in the chapel and Hamlet decides it's not a good time to kill him. So
that was 'and at some point,' but the rest I think I got in one shot!
When I was eleven, I don't think I had even heard of Hamlet.
I'm pretty happy with our situation.
Sandra
showed them two or three bits to illustrate things we'd been discussing. We
had connections to Cyndi Lauper, to Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back, to
Minneapolis, to the 80's in general, and to voices.
Holly said Prince has a funny voice. I hadn't thought so, and asked "like
what?"
Not strong, funny quality. She couldn't describe it.
I said I thought he was a better guitarist and songwriter than singer, but
that as he was a really great performer, the quality of his voice wasn't the
main feature. She understood that.
We talked about drums and bass some, about creating a mood--jittery, or
unbalanced, or sexy.
That album has great and intentional examples of all those.
Holly asked if the story was true, of the movie. She hasn't seen it, but I
told her his dad in the movie is violent and then attempts suicide and that's
why the title song is sad. I told her I didn't think it was biographical,
totally. Just kind vaguely similar, maybe. That his dad was a musician, and
the dad in the movie had written lots of music but never became a successful
musician. (Sometime I'll check and let her know.)
And then she asked if it was a true story that a guy was able to write music
totally down without using a piano or instrument. I stopped and ran through
stories she might be thinking of. I said lots of people can learn to do
that, once they're experienced at writing it down. I told her about
Beethoven writing orchestral stuff after he was deaf. She was impressed.
But I told her lots of people can write music down.
Before that we had been listening to Donovan, because Holly was singing
"First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is" when
heavy clouds were covering the Sandias, then they would peek through, then
more clouds. She asked who did that song and asked if it was Herman's
Hermits.
I said no, Donovan, the same guy I had mentioned the day before...
And THAT story had been told in reference to how much input a person can
handle at once--different people different amounts and different kinds.
It's hard to describe and impossible to guarantee how Cyndi Lauper and Silent
Bob can lead to a discussion of Beethoven, but it happened here today.
Last night Holly wanted me to tell her the story of Hamlet. I gave her a 20
minute version and had it all in order (surprised myself) except I got a
little confused about when Claudius
is in the chapel and Hamlet decides it's not a good time to kill him. So
that was 'and at some point,' but the rest I think I got in one shot!
When I was eleven, I don't think I had even heard of Hamlet.
I'm pretty happy with our situation.
Sandra
Kerrin or Ralph Taylor
Hi Ren. You reminded me of something else Erin's piano teacher said: She had made a point of finding out about Erin's first piano teacher. She told us that he was not a registered teacher (she is, of course) and made it clear that she didn't think much of him, or the music he had taught Erin (she had brought the book he worked in with her). Absolutely ludicrous IMO when he was the one who inspired her in the first place, and helped her reach a stage that teacher no.2 considered to be impossible! He is still mourned by the community 3 years after retirement!
Kerrin.
Funny thing is, the first guitar place we called made snooty remarks about
the place we ended up at. And Jerry (his teacher) has toured with many
notable musicians, Shania Twain among them!!! Guess they're a bit intimidated
by a teacher that lets the kids learn what they want and is obviously a
really great player himself. sheesh.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kerrin.
Funny thing is, the first guitar place we called made snooty remarks about
the place we ended up at. And Jerry (his teacher) has toured with many
notable musicians, Shania Twain among them!!! Guess they're a bit intimidated
by a teacher that lets the kids learn what they want and is obviously a
really great player himself. sheesh.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kerrin or Ralph Taylor
Hi Brenda.
Thanks for a teachers view. I do agree that it is reasonable to charge for missed lessons, when the student simply doesn't turn up. I would expect some flexibilty (like you mentioned) in the case of a flood making impossible for us to get there. We did ring, and she knew we couldn't get there. She did actually offer a make-up lesson, but she was such an inappropriate teacher for Erin that she didn't want another lesson. An important point, I think, in considering this, is that she did not keep up her end of the agreement, which was to treat Erin as an adult student and to move at her pace. If she had, Erin would probably still be with her and have had the make-up lesson, there wouldn't be an issue.
I understand what you're saying about pricing. I have good skills and provide really good service so I charge accordingly too. When I said the piano teachers prices were inflated, she is charging more than any other teachers, and yet she is not IMO providing a good service. She was simply following a beginners book with Erin, with no individual tuition.
There are other piano teachers available. who seem to be much more enthusiastic. The problem is they're all booked out!
Kerrin.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks for a teachers view. I do agree that it is reasonable to charge for missed lessons, when the student simply doesn't turn up. I would expect some flexibilty (like you mentioned) in the case of a flood making impossible for us to get there. We did ring, and she knew we couldn't get there. She did actually offer a make-up lesson, but she was such an inappropriate teacher for Erin that she didn't want another lesson. An important point, I think, in considering this, is that she did not keep up her end of the agreement, which was to treat Erin as an adult student and to move at her pace. If she had, Erin would probably still be with her and have had the make-up lesson, there wouldn't be an issue.
I understand what you're saying about pricing. I have good skills and provide really good service so I charge accordingly too. When I said the piano teachers prices were inflated, she is charging more than any other teachers, and yet she is not IMO providing a good service. She was simply following a beginners book with Erin, with no individual tuition.
There are other piano teachers available. who seem to be much more enthusiastic. The problem is they're all booked out!
Kerrin.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Alan & Brenda Leonard
4/16/03 05:09:
because she's soooo talented (I hate that kind of pushy parent) but because
she really, really is soooo interested.
I'll move heaven and earth to take a kid who's that interested. Can't
imagine someone else wouldn't find a spot for her, too. By the way, did you
ask the guitar teacher if he had any friends?!?!
brenda
> There are other piano teachers available. who seem to be much moreBeg. I'm serious. Keep calling, ask if they'd meet her once, etc., not
> enthusiastic. The problem is they're all booked out!
because she's soooo talented (I hate that kind of pushy parent) but because
she really, really is soooo interested.
I'll move heaven and earth to take a kid who's that interested. Can't
imagine someone else wouldn't find a spot for her, too. By the way, did you
ask the guitar teacher if he had any friends?!?!
brenda
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/16/03 3:34:02 AM, abtleo@... writes:
<< By the way, did you
ask the guitar teacher if he had any friends?!?! >>
Poor, guy, though, if the answer was "no, not really."
(ducking and giggling)
Sandra
<< By the way, did you
ask the guitar teacher if he had any friends?!?! >>
Poor, guy, though, if the answer was "no, not really."
(ducking and giggling)
Sandra
Betsy
> There are other piano teachers available. who seem to be much moreI would have thought some of them would have time available during the
> enthusiastic. The problem is they're all booked out!
school day when most child lessons aren't scheduled. But maybe not.
Betsy
Kerrin or Ralph Taylor
The shop where the guitar lessons are is so hard case. It's called music mayhem and it's full of guitars, many of them old and funky. The guy who helps you when you come in looks like an old rocker who used a lot of drugs in his youth <bg> He's vague and funny. He's a musician, but he can only play left handed guitars, so I haven't heard him play. There's another, equally unusual guy, with very strange hair who demonstrates the guitars. He's a great muso. It's a really pleasant place to visit. I haven't met the one who teaches Erin. I will ask if they know a good pianist though.
Kerrin.
By the way, did you
ask the guitar teacher if he had any friends?!?!
brenda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kerrin.
By the way, did you
ask the guitar teacher if he had any friends?!?!
brenda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kerrin or Ralph Taylor
Brenda, you sound like a great teacher! I love your attitude.
Kerrin.
I'll move heaven and earth to take a kid who's that interested.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kerrin.
I'll move heaven and earth to take a kid who's that interested.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kerrin or Ralph Taylor
Yes I thought so too, but Erin did ask. She hasn't given up though, but she's going to leave it a while and continue teaching herself with the help of a new book. She wants to focus more on drama and guitar for a little while. She's at a holiday drama course at the moment and I'm off to see her play today.
Kerrin.
I would have thought some of them would have time available during the
school day when most child lessons aren't scheduled. But maybe not.
Betsy
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kerrin.
I would have thought some of them would have time available during the
school day when most child lessons aren't scheduled. But maybe not.
Betsy
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nancy Wooton
on 4/16/03 3:52 PM, Kerrin or Ralph Taylor at kerrin@... wrote:
Translation, please?
Nancy, whose teen contemporaries said "far out," "gnarly" and "awesome." Is
it one of those?
> The shop where the guitar lessons are is so hard case.OK, I'm officially old. I have never heard anything called "so hard case."
Translation, please?
Nancy, whose teen contemporaries said "far out," "gnarly" and "awesome." Is
it one of those?
Alan & Brenda Leonard
4/17/03 01:10:
burned out. I figured there had to be an easier way to make a living than
dealing with these awful kids.
Eventually I figured out it wasn't the kids that were awful, it was me and
my attitude. I was doing it the way I had been taught, even though I could
have easily written you a list a mile long of things I didn't like about the
way I was taught. So it's taken ongoing, thoughtful effort to find a better
way, and I appreciate the compliment a lot.
A parent called yesterday to reschedule a lesson time and told me her
teenage daughter (a new-ish student) thinks I'm cool and loves playing
violin. I was flying high all afternoon!
brenda
> Brenda, you sound like a great teacher! I love your attitude.Thanks. Back years ago, I quit teaching for a year or so because I was so
burned out. I figured there had to be an easier way to make a living than
dealing with these awful kids.
Eventually I figured out it wasn't the kids that were awful, it was me and
my attitude. I was doing it the way I had been taught, even though I could
have easily written you a list a mile long of things I didn't like about the
way I was taught. So it's taken ongoing, thoughtful effort to find a better
way, and I appreciate the compliment a lot.
A parent called yesterday to reschedule a lesson time and told me her
teenage daughter (a new-ish student) thinks I'm cool and loves playing
violin. I was flying high all afternoon!
brenda