Math Too Soon?
[email protected]
Oh, smokes. Just when I finally got most of the rocks out of our
homeschooling boat! It has been a long road, but I've finally gotten my
spouse to (mostly) trust our son's lead in his learning, and now I find I may
have been wrong!
My son is 11 and loves math. Eats it up. Wallows in all levels of math books
like a horse in clover. Begs for algebra problems and "engineering" problems
from his dad. So I let him run with it (how not?). He's got a good handle on
most basic algebraic/geometry concepts. Is working on grasping the weird
stuff (how I always thought of trigonometry). Is dead set on learning
calculus so that physics will be "easier" (a notion he picked up in his
reading somewhere). And soon.
Is it possible that letting him do this at this age might not be a good
thing? He loves the stuff.
In addition to the math addiction, he loves to read (omnivorous; even the
dictionary), build with his Legos robotics kit, and fool around with the
computer. Shows little interest in writing, although occasionally will
compose a poem or song (which he typically wants to type and keep in his
computer folder). He hates writing word things by hand, but he will happily
fill page after page with computations as a means of keeping track of where
he was in his thoughts. He loves math textbooks because he thinks of them as
fun puzzle books. He enjoys stimulating discussion on most topics, but would
prolly rather have his teeth pulled than take the time to write e-mails to
his beloved but far-flung relatives (he'd rather talk on the phone).
Should I really be steering him away from the algebra, etc., until he's 13 or
so? I'm not being facetious: I really didn't know this might be a problem!
Help?!
Peace,
Wynn
homeschooling boat! It has been a long road, but I've finally gotten my
spouse to (mostly) trust our son's lead in his learning, and now I find I may
have been wrong!
My son is 11 and loves math. Eats it up. Wallows in all levels of math books
like a horse in clover. Begs for algebra problems and "engineering" problems
from his dad. So I let him run with it (how not?). He's got a good handle on
most basic algebraic/geometry concepts. Is working on grasping the weird
stuff (how I always thought of trigonometry). Is dead set on learning
calculus so that physics will be "easier" (a notion he picked up in his
reading somewhere). And soon.
Is it possible that letting him do this at this age might not be a good
thing? He loves the stuff.
In addition to the math addiction, he loves to read (omnivorous; even the
dictionary), build with his Legos robotics kit, and fool around with the
computer. Shows little interest in writing, although occasionally will
compose a poem or song (which he typically wants to type and keep in his
computer folder). He hates writing word things by hand, but he will happily
fill page after page with computations as a means of keeping track of where
he was in his thoughts. He loves math textbooks because he thinks of them as
fun puzzle books. He enjoys stimulating discussion on most topics, but would
prolly rather have his teeth pulled than take the time to write e-mails to
his beloved but far-flung relatives (he'd rather talk on the phone).
Should I really be steering him away from the algebra, etc., until he's 13 or
so? I'm not being facetious: I really didn't know this might be a problem!
Help?!
Peace,
Wynn
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/30/2001 7:00:55 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Otterspur@... writes:
see a problem.
Have you looked at Calculus By and For Kids? It is great for a kid like this
-- really interesting way of looking at calculus concepts -- meaty and
satisfying, imo. It does need someone else to fool around with it with the
kid (and fool around is what you do - it is play) -- but if you or your
husband have enough background and interest, you could do that or, if not,
you could maybe find someone who does.
You know that forcing kids to learn to read is possible at 3 years old. It is
possible. But is it good for them? Do kids who are forced to read early turn
out later to be smarter, more competent, better readers? Do they end up
reading more or loving it more? NAH - educational researchers now have a TON
of evidence to the contrary.
On the other hand, what if you DO have a child who simply soaks it up and
demands to learn to read at a very early age? I guess some people might say
we should prevent them -- but HOW? Take the books away? Divert their eyes
from print material? Dumb, right? So - I have one child who did this - truly
taught herself how to read before her 4th birthday. It is fine - at 14 she
still has some traits that make her unusual in the language/reading area. I
suspect that a kid who is DEMANDING and truly self-initiating advanced (and I
consider formal algebra to be advanced) mathematics at 11 years old will
always have some unusual traits in that area -- will be outstanding in some
related way even as an adult. I don't see anything more dangerous in
supplying a kid like that with what he wants than supplying my child with
books she could read, even though she was very young.
BUT I would see that as REALLY different than trying to get my other children
to read at 4 years old - even if I did it really nicely and with a fun
reading program.
Also - word of warning -- I had a mom telling me over a period of months how
her 10 yo son was like this - devouring math books -- she kept telling me how
much he LOVED Saxon Math and so on..... but one day I HEARD him saying
something like, "PLEASE PLEASE can I just skip my math today and go to
Bobbie's house to play?" Didn't sound like the kid had free choice in the
math department, to me. I started paying attention, and I noticed other
things where this mom acted like her son was initiating things but really it
was clearly her. I don't know if she believed it or was straight-out trying
to mislead other people into thinking it. Or, who knows, maybe the kid liked
it for a while, but the mom got overly excited and couldn't let it go when
the kid lost interest.
--pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Otterspur@... writes:
> Is it possible that letting him do this at this age might not be a goodIf HE is truly initiating it, and enjoying it, then I'd support him. I don't
>
see a problem.
Have you looked at Calculus By and For Kids? It is great for a kid like this
-- really interesting way of looking at calculus concepts -- meaty and
satisfying, imo. It does need someone else to fool around with it with the
kid (and fool around is what you do - it is play) -- but if you or your
husband have enough background and interest, you could do that or, if not,
you could maybe find someone who does.
You know that forcing kids to learn to read is possible at 3 years old. It is
possible. But is it good for them? Do kids who are forced to read early turn
out later to be smarter, more competent, better readers? Do they end up
reading more or loving it more? NAH - educational researchers now have a TON
of evidence to the contrary.
On the other hand, what if you DO have a child who simply soaks it up and
demands to learn to read at a very early age? I guess some people might say
we should prevent them -- but HOW? Take the books away? Divert their eyes
from print material? Dumb, right? So - I have one child who did this - truly
taught herself how to read before her 4th birthday. It is fine - at 14 she
still has some traits that make her unusual in the language/reading area. I
suspect that a kid who is DEMANDING and truly self-initiating advanced (and I
consider formal algebra to be advanced) mathematics at 11 years old will
always have some unusual traits in that area -- will be outstanding in some
related way even as an adult. I don't see anything more dangerous in
supplying a kid like that with what he wants than supplying my child with
books she could read, even though she was very young.
BUT I would see that as REALLY different than trying to get my other children
to read at 4 years old - even if I did it really nicely and with a fun
reading program.
Also - word of warning -- I had a mom telling me over a period of months how
her 10 yo son was like this - devouring math books -- she kept telling me how
much he LOVED Saxon Math and so on..... but one day I HEARD him saying
something like, "PLEASE PLEASE can I just skip my math today and go to
Bobbie's house to play?" Didn't sound like the kid had free choice in the
math department, to me. I started paying attention, and I noticed other
things where this mom acted like her son was initiating things but really it
was clearly her. I don't know if she believed it or was straight-out trying
to mislead other people into thinking it. Or, who knows, maybe the kid liked
it for a while, but the mom got overly excited and couldn't let it go when
the kid lost interest.
--pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Hill
Otterspur@... wrote:
by doing too much too soon. (Unless in a very pressured environment,
unlike most unschooling homes.) Parents can do that kind of harm, but
kids have the internal feedback to stop if they aren't processing
something successfully.
That's from my deepest faith in unschooling. No on else, (no offense
meant to Cindy, who was generalizing), can specify the right or wrong
age for a certain child to learn a certain thing. But the child himself
is drawn to select things that are right and set aside things that are
wrong.
I just can't imagine a child choosing to approach math or music or
swimming in a way that would leave the kind of long lasting mental scars
that we've seen school induce.
Betsy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> My son is 11 and loves math. Eats it up. Wallows in all levels of math,<snip>
> books
> like a horse in clover. Begs for algebra problems and "engineering"
> problems
> from his dad. So I let him run with it (how not?). He's got a good
> handle on
> most basic algebraic/geometry concepts. Is working on grasping the
> weird
> stuff (how I always thought of trigonometry). Is dead set on learning
> calculus so that physics will be "easier" (a notion he picked up in
> his
> reading somewhere). And soon.
>
>It is my personal, unsupported opinion that kids won't harm themselves
>
> Should I really be steering him away from the algebra, etc., until
> he's 13 or
> so? I'm not being facetious: I really didn't know this might be a
> problem!
> Help?!
by doing too much too soon. (Unless in a very pressured environment,
unlike most unschooling homes.) Parents can do that kind of harm, but
kids have the internal feedback to stop if they aren't processing
something successfully.
That's from my deepest faith in unschooling. No on else, (no offense
meant to Cindy, who was generalizing), can specify the right or wrong
age for a certain child to learn a certain thing. But the child himself
is drawn to select things that are right and set aside things that are
wrong.
I just can't imagine a child choosing to approach math or music or
swimming in a way that would leave the kind of long lasting mental scars
that we've seen school induce.
Betsy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cindy
Elizabeth Hill wrote:
at that point, not that no child is ever ready for it then.
If a child picks up a math book and can't put it down and wants more,
the that child is ready for it. My older son started algebra when he
was in the 6th grade - he did fine with it and enjoyed it. He won
first place in a statewide math contest in the 8th grade and did math
contests all thru high school (yes, he was in school.) He doesn't
like really hard math now and avoids the parts of his field where it
is difficult. Since his chosen field is astronomy, we are talking about
extremely difficult math too!
--
Cindy Ferguson
crma@...
>And I believe I said "very few children" are ready to learn formal algebra
> Otterspur@... wrote:
>
> > My son is 11 and loves math. Eats it up. Wallows in all levels of math
> > books
> > like a horse in clover. Begs for algebra problems and "engineering"
> > problems
> > from his dad. So I let him run with it (how not?). He's got a good
> > handle on
> > most basic algebraic/geometry concepts. Is working on grasping the
> > weird
> > stuff (how I always thought of trigonometry). Is dead set on learning
> > calculus so that physics will be "easier" (a notion he picked up in
> > his
> > reading somewhere). And soon.
> >
>
> ,<snip>
>
> >
> >
> > Should I really be steering him away from the algebra, etc., until
> > he's 13 or
> > so? I'm not being facetious: I really didn't know this might be a
> > problem!
> > Help?!
>
> It is my personal, unsupported opinion that kids won't harm themselves
> by doing too much too soon. (Unless in a very pressured environment,
> unlike most unschooling homes.) Parents can do that kind of harm, but
> kids have the internal feedback to stop if they aren't processing
> something successfully.
>
> That's from my deepest faith in unschooling. No on else, (no offense
> meant to Cindy, who was generalizing), can specify the right or wrong
> age for a certain child to learn a certain thing. But the child himself
> is drawn to select things that are right and set aside things that are
> wrong.
>
at that point, not that no child is ever ready for it then.
If a child picks up a math book and can't put it down and wants more,
the that child is ready for it. My older son started algebra when he
was in the 6th grade - he did fine with it and enjoyed it. He won
first place in a statewide math contest in the 8th grade and did math
contests all thru high school (yes, he was in school.) He doesn't
like really hard math now and avoids the parts of his field where it
is difficult. Since his chosen field is astronomy, we are talking about
extremely difficult math too!
--
Cindy Ferguson
crma@...
[email protected]
Thanks, all, for helpful and reassuring input.
Pam, do you have an author/publisher for Calculus for and by Kids? We haven't
heard of that one, and did not find that title in our library's ILL catalog,
but it sounds like it might be a good one. I had to LOL at the thought of
forcing Ledlie to do anything; seems like it would be quite an investment of
energy to force a child to do something. :^D (which is why I always supposed
that teachers look so wrung out all the time).
Also, I guess if I could force him to do any one thing, it would be to clean
his room :^D
I'm also really enjoying the tongue-in-cheek discussion of math and belief in
God...
Peace,
Wynn
Pam, do you have an author/publisher for Calculus for and by Kids? We haven't
heard of that one, and did not find that title in our library's ILL catalog,
but it sounds like it might be a good one. I had to LOL at the thought of
forcing Ledlie to do anything; seems like it would be quite an investment of
energy to force a child to do something. :^D (which is why I always supposed
that teachers look so wrung out all the time).
Also, I guess if I could force him to do any one thing, it would be to clean
his room :^D
I'm also really enjoying the tongue-in-cheek discussion of math and belief in
God...
Peace,
Wynn
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/3/2001 6:14:11 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Otterspur@... writes:
It is by Don Cohen, aka The Mathman. He's a nice guy who sometimes
participates on homeschooling lists since homeschoolers tend to be good
customers for his unusual materials.
--pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Otterspur@... writes:
>http://www.shout.net/~mathman/
It is by Don Cohen, aka The Mathman. He's a nice guy who sometimes
participates on homeschooling lists since homeschoolers tend to be good
customers for his unusual materials.
--pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
>----------
>
>http://www.shout.net/~mathman/
>It is by Don Cohen, aka The Mathman. He's a nice guy who sometimes
>participates on homeschooling lists since homeschoolers tend to be good
>customers for his unusual materials.
>
>--pam
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