kids on list
[email protected]
My 14 yo, Roxana, has been standing here reading over my shoulder and likes
the discussions on this list. Can she join us? Would that bother people to
have a 14 yo here?
--Pam
the discussions on this list. Can she join us? Would that bother people to
have a 14 yo here?
--Pam
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/22/01 11:45:11 AM, PSoroosh@... writes:
<< Would that bother people to
have a 14 yo here? >>
not at all for me.
Paula
<< Would that bother people to
have a 14 yo here? >>
not at all for me.
Paula
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/22/01 12:45:02 PM, PSoroosh@... writes:
<< My 14 yo, Roxana, has been standing here reading over my shoulder and
likes
the discussions on this list. Can she join us? Would that bother people to
have a 14 yo here? >>
Okay with me.
Sharon
<< My 14 yo, Roxana, has been standing here reading over my shoulder and
likes
the discussions on this list. Can she join us? Would that bother people to
have a 14 yo here? >>
Okay with me.
Sharon
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/22/2001 12:44:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
PSoroosh@... writes:
Love to have her!
Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
PSoroosh@... writes:
> Would that bother people toHow would we know?;-)
> have a 14 yo here?
>
>
Love to have her!
Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/22/2001 12:45:02 PM Eastern Standard Time,
PSoroosh@... writes:
lovemary
I cannot judge my own path and SELF, having the knowledge that I have chosen
to come here to experience these specific issues and grow, learn, and
Remember Who I Am.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
PSoroosh@... writes:
> . Can she join us? Would that bother people towouldnt bother me at all. . .Lelia (12 1/2) often reads over my shoulder
> have a 14 yo here?
>
lovemary
I cannot judge my own path and SELF, having the knowledge that I have chosen
to come here to experience these specific issues and grow, learn, and
Remember Who I Am.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
<< My 14 yo, Roxana, has been standing here reading over my shoulder and
likes
the discussions on this list. Can she join us? Would that bother people to
have a 14 yo here? >>
She needs to avert her eyes if it gets uncomfortable for her, though. i'm
sure she can. <g>
likes
the discussions on this list. Can she join us? Would that bother people to
have a 14 yo here? >>
She needs to avert her eyes if it gets uncomfortable for her, though. i'm
sure she can. <g>
Fetteroll
on 12/22/01 12:42 PM, PSoroosh@... at PSoroosh@... wrote:
Wouldn't it be great if our society treated them that way and you wouldn't
even have to ask?
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Would that bother people to have a 14 yo here?Last time I checked 14 yos were people too! :-)
Wouldn't it be great if our society treated them that way and you wouldn't
even have to ask?
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joylyn
Fetteroll wrote
I HATE age discrimination.
I have so many stories of discrimination based simply on age and it
drives me crazy.
Joylyn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Last time I checked 14 yos were people too! :-)A great truth here!
>
> Wouldn't it be great if our society treated them that way and you
> wouldn't
> even have to ask?
I HATE age discrimination.
I have so many stories of discrimination based simply on age and it
drives me crazy.
Joylyn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/22/01 7:12:07 PM, joylyn@... writes:
<< I HATE age discrimination. >>
Most of it bugs me. But it is nice to have a heads up that there are people
here who aren't married adults with children. There's a certain level of
candid I don't want to be in front of the more inexperienced folk.
Sandra
<< I HATE age discrimination. >>
Most of it bugs me. But it is nice to have a heads up that there are people
here who aren't married adults with children. There's a certain level of
candid I don't want to be in front of the more inexperienced folk.
Sandra
kayb85
I think that is awesome!
sheila
sheila
--- In AlwaysLearning@y..., PSoroosh@a... wrote:
> My 14 yo, Roxana, has been standing here reading over my shoulder
and likes
> the discussions on this list. Can she join us? Would that bother
people to
> have a 14 yo here?
>
> --Pam
Joylyn
Oh I agree with all of that. What bothers me is when people tell me or
Lexie that Lexie is too young to do something simply because she is not
8 or 10 or 13. Example--serving food at a Thanksgiving dinner for
homeless families. This is something Lexie wanted to do. I had the
idea that she could help hand out cups of juice, or put rolls on
people's plates, etc. But no, she is not old enough to do this, she
must be 13. Today we went to a place where the serve meals to homeless,
etc. but also one day a year they give out presents to kids. They have
a line (and I do mean a line, last year they gave out over 800 gifts,
but this year they were expecting twice that many--there were a lot of
kids!) and they have an "escort" take the child (no adults, parents
meet their chidlren at the exit, the whole process takes about 5
minutes, but if there were toddlers or babies that didn't want to leave
mom, that was ok, mom could come), pick up a stuffed animal, a video
tape, and a wrapped present. The escort was required to find out the
child's name and age, and then tell a "runner" what type of wrapped
present to get. The escort would then take the child to santa, who
would give the wrapped present to the child and "Mrs Claus" would give
the child a candy cane or other candy. The child and escort woudl then
precede to the exit where someone would stamp their hand (so they
couldn't return) and the mother (or father, grandfather, etc.) would
pick up the child. Anyway... Lexie was told she was too young to be an
escort and that I would have to go with her. This is what she was told
on the phone she woudl do (and I told them her age on the phone) so she
was disappointed but told me privately she was going to do such a good
job they would see how well she coudl do it without help. So she did.
She learned how to ask in Spanish what the child's age was (she already
knew how to say "what is your name?" I just followed her and her child
through the line as she escorted about 6 children. Then she wanted to
try to be a runner, so she did that for a good half an hour, all by
herself. She was very cute, remembering the escort and child, so she'd
give her gift to the correct team, and running quick, and then waiting
in line patiently behind the other runners, all adults and teens. After
a bit of that, she wanted to be an escort again. I set Lexie up to work
with a teen but after a few times around, I noticed she was going by
herself. I watched her in the line, I just wasn't following her any
more, and she did fine. I asked the teen and she said "she does need me
and they noticed that!" I watched Lexie very carefully, there were a
lot of people there, but she had already made friends with all the other
volunteers and she was pretty much in my sight or close to it 100% of
the time, and she did so good, and was so happy and pleased with herself
for being able to do this herself. A few of the volunteers in charge
came up to me and told me how wonderful she was, and how capable she
was, how sure of herself, and confident, etc. The person that said she
couldn't do it by herself admitted, sorta, that Lexie could be an
escort. The only snag in it was until all the volunteers got used to
the fact that she was HELPING,they kept trying to give her gifts,
including santa! Anyway, this is the long way of saying that in this
case, in MOST cases, people need to trust the parents to know their
child's abilities. Of course, I know most parents aren't like we are,
and most kids aren't like Lexie, but you know, I often think that they
could be. I think so many kids don't meet their potental, ever, because
of low expectation by everyone involved--parents, teachers, society.
Lexie did what she did today (and it was more than the physical action,
she knew she wasn't going to get a present, she knew this was for the
other kids, even Janene, who went as well, never once asked for a
present. We did talk about it before hand, and we also stopped and got
a treat on the way home, but my expectation was that my children could
deal with this, and behold--they did! (ok, sometimes this doesn't
happen, but most of the time it does).) I think it comes down to
this--trusting ourselves and trusting our children, to learn, to grow,
to be what they can be. But sometimes, like the above, the world steps
in and tells us and our children that we are not trustworthy.
Dar told a story a long long time ago about being in a bead store and
how her daughter was told she couldn't touch the beads, and how Dar and
her child left. Her child was the customer and had a right, just as an
adult, to examine what she was going to purchase before she did so. I
remember reading this story and thinking--I know her daughter, between
that child and myself, I'd put the money on the child not spilling the
beads! I'm a clutz and tend to knock things down.
anyway, ramble over. I agree that it's nice to know that there are
children, who, with their parent's permission, are reading this list.
It may help us to think twice about what we say, or don't say, and how
can that be a bad thing?
Joylyn
SandraDodd@... wrote:
Lexie that Lexie is too young to do something simply because she is not
8 or 10 or 13. Example--serving food at a Thanksgiving dinner for
homeless families. This is something Lexie wanted to do. I had the
idea that she could help hand out cups of juice, or put rolls on
people's plates, etc. But no, she is not old enough to do this, she
must be 13. Today we went to a place where the serve meals to homeless,
etc. but also one day a year they give out presents to kids. They have
a line (and I do mean a line, last year they gave out over 800 gifts,
but this year they were expecting twice that many--there were a lot of
kids!) and they have an "escort" take the child (no adults, parents
meet their chidlren at the exit, the whole process takes about 5
minutes, but if there were toddlers or babies that didn't want to leave
mom, that was ok, mom could come), pick up a stuffed animal, a video
tape, and a wrapped present. The escort was required to find out the
child's name and age, and then tell a "runner" what type of wrapped
present to get. The escort would then take the child to santa, who
would give the wrapped present to the child and "Mrs Claus" would give
the child a candy cane or other candy. The child and escort woudl then
precede to the exit where someone would stamp their hand (so they
couldn't return) and the mother (or father, grandfather, etc.) would
pick up the child. Anyway... Lexie was told she was too young to be an
escort and that I would have to go with her. This is what she was told
on the phone she woudl do (and I told them her age on the phone) so she
was disappointed but told me privately she was going to do such a good
job they would see how well she coudl do it without help. So she did.
She learned how to ask in Spanish what the child's age was (she already
knew how to say "what is your name?" I just followed her and her child
through the line as she escorted about 6 children. Then she wanted to
try to be a runner, so she did that for a good half an hour, all by
herself. She was very cute, remembering the escort and child, so she'd
give her gift to the correct team, and running quick, and then waiting
in line patiently behind the other runners, all adults and teens. After
a bit of that, she wanted to be an escort again. I set Lexie up to work
with a teen but after a few times around, I noticed she was going by
herself. I watched her in the line, I just wasn't following her any
more, and she did fine. I asked the teen and she said "she does need me
and they noticed that!" I watched Lexie very carefully, there were a
lot of people there, but she had already made friends with all the other
volunteers and she was pretty much in my sight or close to it 100% of
the time, and she did so good, and was so happy and pleased with herself
for being able to do this herself. A few of the volunteers in charge
came up to me and told me how wonderful she was, and how capable she
was, how sure of herself, and confident, etc. The person that said she
couldn't do it by herself admitted, sorta, that Lexie could be an
escort. The only snag in it was until all the volunteers got used to
the fact that she was HELPING,they kept trying to give her gifts,
including santa! Anyway, this is the long way of saying that in this
case, in MOST cases, people need to trust the parents to know their
child's abilities. Of course, I know most parents aren't like we are,
and most kids aren't like Lexie, but you know, I often think that they
could be. I think so many kids don't meet their potental, ever, because
of low expectation by everyone involved--parents, teachers, society.
Lexie did what she did today (and it was more than the physical action,
she knew she wasn't going to get a present, she knew this was for the
other kids, even Janene, who went as well, never once asked for a
present. We did talk about it before hand, and we also stopped and got
a treat on the way home, but my expectation was that my children could
deal with this, and behold--they did! (ok, sometimes this doesn't
happen, but most of the time it does).) I think it comes down to
this--trusting ourselves and trusting our children, to learn, to grow,
to be what they can be. But sometimes, like the above, the world steps
in and tells us and our children that we are not trustworthy.
Dar told a story a long long time ago about being in a bead store and
how her daughter was told she couldn't touch the beads, and how Dar and
her child left. Her child was the customer and had a right, just as an
adult, to examine what she was going to purchase before she did so. I
remember reading this story and thinking--I know her daughter, between
that child and myself, I'd put the money on the child not spilling the
beads! I'm a clutz and tend to knock things down.
anyway, ramble over. I agree that it's nice to know that there are
children, who, with their parent's permission, are reading this list.
It may help us to think twice about what we say, or don't say, and how
can that be a bad thing?
Joylyn
SandraDodd@... wrote:
>[Image]
> In a message dated 12/22/01 7:12:07 PM, joylyn@... writes:
>
> << I HATE age discrimination. >>
>
> Most of it bugs me. But it is nice to have a heads up that there are
> people
> here who aren't married adults with children. There's a certain level
> of
> candid I don't want to be in front of the more inexperienced folk.
>
> Sandra
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[email protected]
On Sun, 23 Dec 2001 00:09:35 -0800 Joylyn <joylyn@...> writes:
that she wanted...
made to fit the majority, or maybe even the possibly troublesome
minority. When Cacie and I volunteered at the animal shelter in Alameda,
they had a whole application process and they said you had to be 16 (she
was 6) , but we chatted a bit and when we asked, the woman said, "Oh,
sure" and told us where to find everything and what to do, and just said
to tell people "Lauara said it was fine" if anyone asked. So for two
years, we did that off and on... I did stay with Cacie but she didn't
mind that, we worked as a team, it wasn't me supervising her work at all.
Getting some of those dogs in and out of the kennels was much easier with
two people
not her, unless she's having one of those growth spurts. And she was so
intent on choosing the right beads, they were for a bead exchange with a
group of about 20 online friends we were all going to meet with in
Chicago... But I imagine there had been some active kids coming through
there who knocked things over or mixed up beads, so they made A Rule. Of
course, if a few geriatric white women came through and did the same
thing, there's no way they could not allow them to touch the beads...
Dar
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
>I watched Lexie very carefully, there were a100%
> lot of people there, but she had already made friends with all the
> other volunteers and she was pretty much in my sight or close to it
> of the time, and she did so good, and was so happy and pleased with:-) I can so picture this. I'm glad she was able to contribute in the way
> herself for being able to do this herself.
that she wanted...
> But sometimes, like the above, the world stepsIt seems like a lot of rules, especially within large organizations, are
> in and tells us and our children that we are not trustworthy.
made to fit the majority, or maybe even the possibly troublesome
minority. When Cacie and I volunteered at the animal shelter in Alameda,
they had a whole application process and they said you had to be 16 (she
was 6) , but we chatted a bit and when we asked, the woman said, "Oh,
sure" and told us where to find everything and what to do, and just said
to tell people "Lauara said it was fine" if anyone asked. So for two
years, we did that off and on... I did stay with Cacie but she didn't
mind that, we worked as a team, it wasn't me supervising her work at all.
Getting some of those dogs in and out of the kennels was much easier with
two people
>and
> Dar told a story a long long time ago about being in a bead store and
> how her daughter was told she couldn't touch the beads, and how Dar
> her child left. Her child was the customer and had a right, just as anI remember that. In Berkeley, even. Yeah, I'm the one who drops stuff,
> adult, to examine what she was going to purchase before she did so. I
> remember reading this story and thinking--I know her daughter, between
> that child and myself, I'd put the money on the child not spilling the
> beads! I'm a clutz and tend to knock things down.
not her, unless she's having one of those growth spurts. And she was so
intent on choosing the right beads, they were for a bead exchange with a
group of about 20 online friends we were all going to meet with in
Chicago... But I imagine there had been some active kids coming through
there who knocked things over or mixed up beads, so they made A Rule. Of
course, if a few geriatric white women came through and did the same
thing, there's no way they could not allow them to touch the beads...
Dar
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
Sharon Rudd
Welcome Young People!!
Sharon of the Swamp
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
Sharon of the Swamp
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
Joseph Fuerst
I have tried several times to volunteer with the children, starting when
the oldest was 6. We've had that happen every time....that is, they don't
want children around - even with parents. One agency "allowed" her to draw
a Christmas picture for the lobby of their Christmas store....I found it
demeaning of her. Especially since the 'lobby' was so cluttered and
overcrowded with bulletin board "junk'. That agency recently developed a
policy saying volunteers must be at least**15** yrs old AND be supervised by
parents! (Until when I wonder ? 21, 35, 45 ????)
In my more self righteous unschooling moments I think it's because they
believe as schools do, that children must be *managed* and that this
requires too much on their part.....a toatl lack of trust in children as
persons.
S
the oldest was 6. We've had that happen every time....that is, they don't
want children around - even with parents. One agency "allowed" her to draw
a Christmas picture for the lobby of their Christmas store....I found it
demeaning of her. Especially since the 'lobby' was so cluttered and
overcrowded with bulletin board "junk'. That agency recently developed a
policy saying volunteers must be at least**15** yrs old AND be supervised by
parents! (Until when I wonder ? 21, 35, 45 ????)
In my more self righteous unschooling moments I think it's because they
believe as schools do, that children must be *managed* and that this
requires too much on their part.....a toatl lack of trust in children as
persons.
S
----- Original Message -----
From: <freeform@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2001 1:34 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] kids on list
>
>
> On Sun, 23 Dec 2001 00:09:35 -0800 Joylyn <joylyn@...> writes:
> >I watched Lexie very carefully, there were a
> > lot of people there, but she had already made friends with all the
> > other volunteers and she was pretty much in my sight or close to it
> 100%
> > of the time, and she did so good, and was so happy and pleased with
> > herself for being able to do this herself.
>
> :-) I can so picture this. I'm glad she was able to contribute in the way
> that she wanted...
>
> > But sometimes, like the above, the world steps
> > in and tells us and our children that we are not trustworthy.
>
> It seems like a lot of rules, especially within large organizations, are
> made to fit the majority, or maybe even the possibly troublesome
> minority. When Cacie and I volunteered at the animal shelter in Alameda,
> they had a whole application process and they said you had to be 16 (she
> was 6) , but we chatted a bit and when we asked, the woman said, "Oh,
> sure" and told us where to find everything and what to do, and just said
> to tell people "Lauara said it was fine" if anyone asked. So for two
> years, we did that off and on... I did stay with Cacie but she didn't
> mind that, we worked as a team, it wasn't me supervising her work at all.
> Getting some of those dogs in and out of the kennels was much easier with
> two people
> >
> > Dar told a story a long long time ago about being in a bead store and
> > how her daughter was told she couldn't touch the beads, and how Dar
> and
> > her child left. Her child was the customer and had a right, just as an
> > adult, to examine what she was going to purchase before she did so. I
> > remember reading this story and thinking--I know her daughter, between
> > that child and myself, I'd put the money on the child not spilling the
> > beads! I'm a clutz and tend to knock things down.
>
> I remember that. In Berkeley, even. Yeah, I'm the one who drops stuff,
> not her, unless she's having one of those growth spurts. And she was so
> intent on choosing the right beads, they were for a bead exchange with a
> group of about 20 online friends we were all going to meet with in
> Chicago... But I imagine there had been some active kids coming through
> there who knocked things over or mixed up beads, so they made A Rule. Of
> course, if a few geriatric white women came through and did the same
> thing, there's no way they could not allow them to touch the beads...
>
> Dar
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Joylyn
Joseph Fuerst wrote:
think that children must be managed,
controlled, etc. We MUST tell them when to
eat, sleep, eliminate wastes, etc. And not
only when to eat, but what, and how much, for
children must never be trusted to make their
own decisions. No wonder our teens make
horrible decisions, they have never had the
opportunity to do so before this point.
People who cannot accept the idea that
children (yes, even small children, toddlers)
can choose for themselves when and how much
they eat, and what, when they go to the
bathroom, when (and where) they sleep, when
they wean, etc. can never, in my opinion,
accept it that children can also choose when
and how and what they learn.
Joylyn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Yep, I totally agree. I think most people
> In my more self righteous unschooling
> moments I think it's because they
> believe as schools do, that children must
> be *managed* and that this
> requires too much on their part.....a toatl
> lack of trust in children as
> persons.
> S
think that children must be managed,
controlled, etc. We MUST tell them when to
eat, sleep, eliminate wastes, etc. And not
only when to eat, but what, and how much, for
children must never be trusted to make their
own decisions. No wonder our teens make
horrible decisions, they have never had the
opportunity to do so before this point.
People who cannot accept the idea that
children (yes, even small children, toddlers)
can choose for themselves when and how much
they eat, and what, when they go to the
bathroom, when (and where) they sleep, when
they wean, etc. can never, in my opinion,
accept it that children can also choose when
and how and what they learn.
Joylyn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]