re:re:re: and request for thoughts
Maggie Lesoing
..only if I don't show up.
I've long brown hair, stand 5'10", and am a gorgeous 230#'s.
So, are all unschoolers tall, voluptuous and have long hair?
HeidiWD
Nope! ;o) I am 5'2" and just had my hair cut to shoulder length...
Stephanie E.
-----------------------------------------------
This is so fun! Although I am mostly a lurker (Hi, Stephanie E!) I do
like to actually join in now and then!
So, not all of us are tall. I am 5'6", my scale reads 230+#! and my
hair, which was once long, is now too short. Sigh.
I feel such gratitude for being part of this group, everyone is so
wonderful! I have enjoyed the discussion brought up by the anti-child
humor. All the thoughts and ideas mentioned are very helpful. Being
the parent, I think, is a bit different from being a friend, but
hopefully one is a friend as well.
On that subject, I need help/advice/suggestions for a few 'situations'
that are going on in our house.
-- I have 2 boys, Ethan is 5 and Cyrus is 9. They fight CONSTANTLY!
This has been going on for many, many months now and I lost my patience
long ago.
-- Additionally, Cyrus constantly challenges me. If I ask him to pick
up toys or help with dishes, or anything else, his first response is
NO! Then he says he is the only one in our house who cleans (huh?). He
has gotten snotty and rude, and sometimes he hits me or shoves me.
How do you all handle chores and such? Like dishes, picking up clothes,
picking up toys, general helping. My kids basically refuse! At first I
thought forcing them to do it was the thing to do, but couldn't really
go with that so now instead of forcing them, I ask, then they say no,
and I just do it. My rationale is that I'd rather be happy than right.
But of course, I'm not actually happy, I'm downright tired.
You don't know me and have no way of knowing what our household is like,
so.... In a nutshell, like many of you, we are unschoolers, I breastfed
Cy until 2 1/2, Ethan until 3 1/2. They both sleep with me, although my
sweet husband sleeps in his own bed in another room! (He says there
isn't room -- the boys kick! Well, yeah, of course they do....) I do
not 'believe' in spanking but, sadly, I admit it has happened from time
to time, after which I apologize. Lately, with the increase of stress I
have resorted to yelling which is horrible, too.
I don't like the 'consequences' thing, and there is a list as long as
my arm of things I don't want to do. The thing is, what DO I do? My
goal is to raise happy, confident, secure boys. I try to find out their
wishes and desires and interests.
Any given day brings alternating moments of fun, smiles, fighting,
bickering, shoving, screaming, shreiking, working together, hugging,
struggling, etc. Sometimes we are 'on', but it just feels to me that
the 'on' times are beginning to be outnumbered by the 'off' times.
Many times I feel desperate. This morning I was trying to have a
conversation with Mitch, my husband, but the boys continually interrupt,
or need something, or fight and attract attention, or SOMETHING! It was
maddening. And it was just another incident in a long line of similar
incidents.
What's odd and confusing about this whole thing is that from my 30's on
(I'm almost 42) I have wanted children. I had this naive attitude that
if I read enough books, knew well enough what to expect, and had my
heart in the right place, things would be smooth and peaceful. Of
course I realize that that is naive, now that I have kids, but isn't
SOME part of that a reality? I mean, I know that rough times are to be
expected but this seems ridiculously extreme. I think I am understanding
and supportive of my kids so the behavior from them is almost a shock!
(My son recently said to me in a fit of anger that he wanted to go live
at the neighbor's house. This is ironic because these same neighbors
have 2 boards, each one with the name of one of their two boys on it,
and the boards are used for spanking.)
If any of you have words of reassurance or comfort or suggestions, I
would greatly appreciate them.
Thanks so much,
Maggie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I've long brown hair, stand 5'10", and am a gorgeous 230#'s.
So, are all unschoolers tall, voluptuous and have long hair?
HeidiWD
Nope! ;o) I am 5'2" and just had my hair cut to shoulder length...
Stephanie E.
-----------------------------------------------
This is so fun! Although I am mostly a lurker (Hi, Stephanie E!) I do
like to actually join in now and then!
So, not all of us are tall. I am 5'6", my scale reads 230+#! and my
hair, which was once long, is now too short. Sigh.
I feel such gratitude for being part of this group, everyone is so
wonderful! I have enjoyed the discussion brought up by the anti-child
humor. All the thoughts and ideas mentioned are very helpful. Being
the parent, I think, is a bit different from being a friend, but
hopefully one is a friend as well.
On that subject, I need help/advice/suggestions for a few 'situations'
that are going on in our house.
-- I have 2 boys, Ethan is 5 and Cyrus is 9. They fight CONSTANTLY!
This has been going on for many, many months now and I lost my patience
long ago.
-- Additionally, Cyrus constantly challenges me. If I ask him to pick
up toys or help with dishes, or anything else, his first response is
NO! Then he says he is the only one in our house who cleans (huh?). He
has gotten snotty and rude, and sometimes he hits me or shoves me.
How do you all handle chores and such? Like dishes, picking up clothes,
picking up toys, general helping. My kids basically refuse! At first I
thought forcing them to do it was the thing to do, but couldn't really
go with that so now instead of forcing them, I ask, then they say no,
and I just do it. My rationale is that I'd rather be happy than right.
But of course, I'm not actually happy, I'm downright tired.
You don't know me and have no way of knowing what our household is like,
so.... In a nutshell, like many of you, we are unschoolers, I breastfed
Cy until 2 1/2, Ethan until 3 1/2. They both sleep with me, although my
sweet husband sleeps in his own bed in another room! (He says there
isn't room -- the boys kick! Well, yeah, of course they do....) I do
not 'believe' in spanking but, sadly, I admit it has happened from time
to time, after which I apologize. Lately, with the increase of stress I
have resorted to yelling which is horrible, too.
I don't like the 'consequences' thing, and there is a list as long as
my arm of things I don't want to do. The thing is, what DO I do? My
goal is to raise happy, confident, secure boys. I try to find out their
wishes and desires and interests.
Any given day brings alternating moments of fun, smiles, fighting,
bickering, shoving, screaming, shreiking, working together, hugging,
struggling, etc. Sometimes we are 'on', but it just feels to me that
the 'on' times are beginning to be outnumbered by the 'off' times.
Many times I feel desperate. This morning I was trying to have a
conversation with Mitch, my husband, but the boys continually interrupt,
or need something, or fight and attract attention, or SOMETHING! It was
maddening. And it was just another incident in a long line of similar
incidents.
What's odd and confusing about this whole thing is that from my 30's on
(I'm almost 42) I have wanted children. I had this naive attitude that
if I read enough books, knew well enough what to expect, and had my
heart in the right place, things would be smooth and peaceful. Of
course I realize that that is naive, now that I have kids, but isn't
SOME part of that a reality? I mean, I know that rough times are to be
expected but this seems ridiculously extreme. I think I am understanding
and supportive of my kids so the behavior from them is almost a shock!
(My son recently said to me in a fit of anger that he wanted to go live
at the neighbor's house. This is ironic because these same neighbors
have 2 boards, each one with the name of one of their two boys on it,
and the boards are used for spanking.)
If any of you have words of reassurance or comfort or suggestions, I
would greatly appreciate them.
Thanks so much,
Maggie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
>I don't have a lot of ideas for you, but I noticed that nobody has answered
> -- I have 2 boys, Ethan is 5 and Cyrus is 9. They fight CONSTANTLY!
> This has been going on for many, many months now and I lost my patience
> long ago.
this.
Maybe you inject some humour into their fights, send them to the
Shakespearean Insult Kit
http://www.crinos.com/users/aforte/features/shakespear/shakespear.insult.htm
l and help them pick really funny insults for each other. Take that, you
unmuzzled, milk-livered wagtail! There's also the Ship of Fools Biblical
curse generator with some funny curses. Harken, O ye discourager of the
brethren, for you will see your pomegranates wither!
http://www.shipoffools.com/Features/Curses/
Do they each get alone time with you and their dad? That can help.
>When I gave up assigned chores, it seemed like it took way too long for Lars
> -- Additionally, Cyrus constantly challenges me. If I ask him to pick
> up toys or help with dishes, or anything else, his first response is
> NO! Then he says he is the only one in our house who cleans (huh?). He
> has gotten snotty and rude, and sometimes he hits me or shoves me.
>
> How do you all handle chores and such? Like dishes, picking up clothes,
> picking up toys, general helping. My kids basically refuse! At first I
> thought forcing them to do it was the thing to do, but couldn't really
> go with that so now instead of forcing them, I ask, then they say no,
> and I just do it. My rationale is that I'd rather be happy than right.
> But of course, I'm not actually happy, I'm downright tired.
to start helping voluntarily, though once in a while he would. It was after
I read stuff here and at unschooling-dotcom that I realized I wasn't really
doing much for him. I mean, I was doing meals and minimal housework,
driving him places, etc., but I wasn't just doing something for him "just
because". When I started doing that, I started noticing a difference. But
he definitely wants to pick his own way of helping. For instance, he
recently took over caring for our houseplants. He was a bit disgusted with
the way I manage to just barely keep them alive, no more. He likes to
jokingly put me down about things, and this was no exception. But he also
just took the job over. He likes doing yard work way more than housework
and is more likely to say yes to that.
I wouldn't put up with snotty or rude (unless it's really a joke like mine
likes to do) and I wouldn't put up with hitting, etc. But I wouldn't pull a
heavy about it. I would say that I don't do that to him, and I don't
appreciate him doing it to me. Maybe he could tell me in words what's
bothering him. Something like that. If he still didn't stop, I'd give
*myself* a time out.
>Been there. I haven't hit in years, but I still yell sometimes.
> You don't know me and have no way of knowing what our household is like,
> so.... In a nutshell, like many of you, we are unschoolers, I breastfed
> Cy until 2 1/2, Ethan until 3 1/2. They both sleep with me, although my
> sweet husband sleeps in his own bed in another room! (He says there
> isn't room -- the boys kick! Well, yeah, of course they do....) I do
> not 'believe' in spanking but, sadly, I admit it has happened from time
> to time, after which I apologize. Lately, with the increase of stress I
> have resorted to yelling which is horrible, too.
Surprisingly, Lars is almost always the first to apologize when we fight. I
looked at that and decided that *I* needed to learn not to hold grudges.
And I beat him to the apology the other day. <g>
>Can you talk with them about it, separately or together, at a time when
>
> Any given day brings alternating moments of fun, smiles, fighting,
> bickering, shoving, screaming, shreiking, working together, hugging,
> struggling, etc. Sometimes we are 'on', but it just feels to me that
> the 'on' times are beginning to be outnumbered by the 'off' times.
everyone is in a pretty good mood? Ask if they like the atmosphere around
your house lately. If they are bothered by it, maybe they'll have some
suggestions.
>Been there too. I also thought it was all about "getting it right". If I
>
> What's odd and confusing about this whole thing is that from my 30's on
> (I'm almost 42) I have wanted children. I had this naive attitude that
> if I read enough books, knew well enough what to expect, and had my
> heart in the right place, things would be smooth and peaceful. Of
> course I realize that that is naive, now that I have kids, but isn't
> SOME part of that a reality? I mean, I know that rough times are to be
> expected but this seems ridiculously extreme. I think I am understanding
> and supportive of my kids so the behavior from them is almost a shock!
did that, my kids would be "perfect". Actual parenthood came as something
of a surprise. "If you take care of yourself really well, your baby will be
healthy." Well I did, and my first wasn't. "Breastfed babies don't get
colic." Yeah, tell me another one. "Attachment parenting will produce
really happy kids who are easy to get along with." Well, it *does* help.
<g>
>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ Maggie}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
> If any of you have words of reassurance or comfort or suggestions, I
> would greatly appreciate them.
>
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
Pamela Sorooshian
Siblings Without Rivalry: How to Help Your Children Live Together So
You Can Live Too
by Adele Faber ,Elaine Mazlish -- great book, really helpful and
practical.
Great name,btw - my husband is Cyrus, too (pronounced See-roos -
Iranian).
-pam
You Can Live Too
by Adele Faber ,Elaine Mazlish -- great book, really helpful and
practical.
Great name,btw - my husband is Cyrus, too (pronounced See-roos -
Iranian).
-pam
On Tuesday, April 1, 2003, at 01:55 PM, Tia Leschke wrote:
>>
>> -- I have 2 boys, Ethan is 5 and Cyrus is 9. They fight CONSTANTLY!
>> This has been going on for many, many months now and I lost my
>> patience
>> long ago.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]