vegetables (was Re: responding to anti-child humor)
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/28/03 4:03:00 PM, freeform@... writes:
<< Yesterday I was driving them both to the theater and the friend was
talking about how her parents always go on and on about the importance of
proper nutrition (I bought her a kiwi snow bubble with tapioca, which
doesn't seem too nutritious but neither of us mentioned it). I asked if
her parents were always trying to shove protein into her when she has a
meltdown, and she said no, and added that if she had a meltdown her
parents would make her stay in her room for 3 hours and then go pick up
dog poop from the back yard.
And it's not funny, but it's ironic.
AND it's another damned school thing. School health classes with their
balanced diets and their pictures of plates with vegetables and all that
often miss the point.
The four food groups are out and the food pyramid is in. I bought a food
pyramid chart years ago, and the kids know it well just from it being an
abvious visual. But already, in the years since that change, people are
saying, "Okay, maybe that's too much bread and pasta after all, or at least
go to less processed flour."
Still there's not much talk about why and when (when is still "every day" or
which is an improvement over "at every meal").
Years ago we were planning a medieval feast. I was in charge of an event,
and a friend who's older than I am and had done LOTS of period re-creation
stuff, mostly Elizabethan feasts for her Shakespeare-professors's students
and colleagues, was going to do her first SCA feast. She had researched a
couple of real feasts of this period, for which people had kept lists of what
was served on specific days, and based one on that.
Every dish was meat based, but she had planned some similar but vegetarian
substitutes.
Still, what was not in that feast was salad or side veggie dishes. Because
she wasn't doing a post-1950 American restaurant meal. She was doing a 15th
century thing.
A couple of women started a campaign of resistance, that if she didn't add
side dishes of vegetables not only would they not attend, but they would move
to have her replaced as cook.
It was SO STUPID. I remember saying to the one who was closest to me, "Eat
spinach before you leave, and when you get home have a vegetable snack. It's
One MEAL of one day."
No, if you pay for food you should get a vegetable dish on the side.
Too many things we learned at home and school were rules without basis, or
the application of a principle without the revelation of the principle behind
it, so that we came to adhere to our best guess at the reasons, or just to
cling to the practice (vegetable side dish) without any real understanding of
why.
Sometimes I don't need vegetables. Sometimes I need to get over having the
squirts, and vegetables do not help in any way. Sometimes I ate a
gigantic, exotic salad for lunch and I really don't need more green farty
stuff for dinner. Sometimes I wake up and think I really need an artichoke
and an avocado and some spinach. The other day Holly and I were shopping
and she wanted a can of artichoke hearts and I got a can of asparagus (since
I was up on the too-expensive top shelf anyway) and we went home and happily
ate our green stuff as a luxury snack.
So... I'm just rambling and ranting, but I know my kids would never fall for
any panic about needing vegetables NOW because it was mealtime and there MUST
be a vegetable. They also wouldn't fall for "must have meat," but they do
know protein alternatives and how long they individually can go without
protein. And it's not usually 24 hours, but it's more than six or eight
hours.
Sandra
<< Yesterday I was driving them both to the theater and the friend was
talking about how her parents always go on and on about the importance of
proper nutrition (I bought her a kiwi snow bubble with tapioca, which
doesn't seem too nutritious but neither of us mentioned it). I asked if
her parents were always trying to shove protein into her when she has a
meltdown, and she said no, and added that if she had a meltdown her
parents would make her stay in her room for 3 hours and then go pick up
dog poop from the back yard.
>>I laughed! And I should be quiet, because people are asleep.
And it's not funny, but it's ironic.
AND it's another damned school thing. School health classes with their
balanced diets and their pictures of plates with vegetables and all that
often miss the point.
The four food groups are out and the food pyramid is in. I bought a food
pyramid chart years ago, and the kids know it well just from it being an
abvious visual. But already, in the years since that change, people are
saying, "Okay, maybe that's too much bread and pasta after all, or at least
go to less processed flour."
Still there's not much talk about why and when (when is still "every day" or
which is an improvement over "at every meal").
Years ago we were planning a medieval feast. I was in charge of an event,
and a friend who's older than I am and had done LOTS of period re-creation
stuff, mostly Elizabethan feasts for her Shakespeare-professors's students
and colleagues, was going to do her first SCA feast. She had researched a
couple of real feasts of this period, for which people had kept lists of what
was served on specific days, and based one on that.
Every dish was meat based, but she had planned some similar but vegetarian
substitutes.
Still, what was not in that feast was salad or side veggie dishes. Because
she wasn't doing a post-1950 American restaurant meal. She was doing a 15th
century thing.
A couple of women started a campaign of resistance, that if she didn't add
side dishes of vegetables not only would they not attend, but they would move
to have her replaced as cook.
It was SO STUPID. I remember saying to the one who was closest to me, "Eat
spinach before you leave, and when you get home have a vegetable snack. It's
One MEAL of one day."
No, if you pay for food you should get a vegetable dish on the side.
Too many things we learned at home and school were rules without basis, or
the application of a principle without the revelation of the principle behind
it, so that we came to adhere to our best guess at the reasons, or just to
cling to the practice (vegetable side dish) without any real understanding of
why.
Sometimes I don't need vegetables. Sometimes I need to get over having the
squirts, and vegetables do not help in any way. Sometimes I ate a
gigantic, exotic salad for lunch and I really don't need more green farty
stuff for dinner. Sometimes I wake up and think I really need an artichoke
and an avocado and some spinach. The other day Holly and I were shopping
and she wanted a can of artichoke hearts and I got a can of asparagus (since
I was up on the too-expensive top shelf anyway) and we went home and happily
ate our green stuff as a luxury snack.
So... I'm just rambling and ranting, but I know my kids would never fall for
any panic about needing vegetables NOW because it was mealtime and there MUST
be a vegetable. They also wouldn't fall for "must have meat," but they do
know protein alternatives and how long they individually can go without
protein. And it's not usually 24 hours, but it's more than six or eight
hours.
Sandra
Dana
A good read is "May All Be Fed", by John Robbins, Baskin and Robbins heir,
who became vegan later in life. The back of the book is a cook book, but
the front is all about how the beef producers and diary producers put
educational materials in schools, which then schools teach as
"gospel"....not that I've been trapped by the food groups, ever (I had
fringe parents from way-back), but still to me it was an eye-opener!
Dana
who became vegan later in life. The back of the book is a cook book, but
the front is all about how the beef producers and diary producers put
educational materials in schools, which then schools teach as
"gospel"....not that I've been trapped by the food groups, ever (I had
fringe parents from way-back), but still to me it was an eye-opener!
Dana
----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 7:20 AM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] vegetables (was Re: responding to anti-child
humor)
>
> In a message dated 3/28/03 4:03:00 PM, freeform@... writes:
>
> << Yesterday I was driving them both to the theater and the friend was
> talking about how her parents always go on and on about the importance of
> proper nutrition (I bought her a kiwi snow bubble with tapioca, which
> doesn't seem too nutritious but neither of us mentioned it). I asked if
> her parents were always trying to shove protein into her when she has a
> meltdown, and she said no, and added that if she had a meltdown her
> parents would make her stay in her room for 3 hours and then go pick up
> dog poop from the back yard.
> >>
>
> I laughed! And I should be quiet, because people are asleep.
>
> And it's not funny, but it's ironic.
>
> AND it's another damned school thing. School health classes with their
> balanced diets and their pictures of plates with vegetables and all that
> often miss the point.
>
> The four food groups are out and the food pyramid is in. I bought a food
> pyramid chart years ago, and the kids know it well just from it being an
> abvious visual. But already, in the years since that change, people are
> saying, "Okay, maybe that's too much bread and pasta after all, or at
least
> go to less processed flour."
>
> Still there's not much talk about why and when (when is still "every day"
or
> which is an improvement over "at every meal").
>
> Years ago we were planning a medieval feast. I was in charge of an
event,
> and a friend who's older than I am and had done LOTS of period re-creation
> stuff, mostly Elizabethan feasts for her Shakespeare-professors's students
> and colleagues, was going to do her first SCA feast. She had researched a
> couple of real feasts of this period, for which people had kept lists of
what
> was served on specific days, and based one on that.
>
> Every dish was meat based, but she had planned some similar but vegetarian
> substitutes.
>
> Still, what was not in that feast was salad or side veggie dishes.
Because
> she wasn't doing a post-1950 American restaurant meal. She was doing a
15th
> century thing.
>
> A couple of women started a campaign of resistance, that if she didn't add
> side dishes of vegetables not only would they not attend, but they would
move
> to have her replaced as cook.
>
> It was SO STUPID. I remember saying to the one who was closest to me,
"Eat
> spinach before you leave, and when you get home have a vegetable snack.
It's
> One MEAL of one day."
>
> No, if you pay for food you should get a vegetable dish on the side.
>
> Too many things we learned at home and school were rules without basis, or
> the application of a principle without the revelation of the principle
behind
> it, so that we came to adhere to our best guess at the reasons, or just to
> cling to the practice (vegetable side dish) without any real understanding
of
> why.
>
> Sometimes I don't need vegetables. Sometimes I need to get over having
the
> squirts, and vegetables do not help in any way. Sometimes I ate a
> gigantic, exotic salad for lunch and I really don't need more green farty
> stuff for dinner. Sometimes I wake up and think I really need an
artichoke
> and an avocado and some spinach. The other day Holly and I were shopping
> and she wanted a can of artichoke hearts and I got a can of asparagus
(since
> I was up on the too-expensive top shelf anyway) and we went home and
happily
> ate our green stuff as a luxury snack.
>
> So... I'm just rambling and ranting, but I know my kids would never fall
for
> any panic about needing vegetables NOW because it was mealtime and there
MUST
> be a vegetable. They also wouldn't fall for "must have meat," but they do
> know protein alternatives and how long they individually can go without
> protein. And it's not usually 24 hours, but it's more than six or eight
> hours.
>
> Sandra
>
>
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>
Nancy Wooton
on 3/29/03 10:43 AM, Dana at hoffmanwilson@... wrote:
the school uses a film about slaughterhouses and peer pressure from her
classmates to pressure her to change her ways. It's also the episode in
which the teacher, the principal, and the cafeteria lady all press their
"Independent Thought Alarm(s)." Very snarky <ggg>
Nancy
--
"No offense, Homer, but your half-assed underparenting was a lot more fun
than your half-assed over-parenting."
--Bart Simpson
> A good read is "May All Be Fed", by John Robbins, Baskin and Robbins heir,My favorite Simpson's episode is the one where Lisa becomes a vegetarian --
> who became vegan later in life. The back of the book is a cook book, but
> the front is all about how the beef producers and diary producers put
> educational materials in schools, which then schools teach as
> "gospel"....not that I've been trapped by the food groups, ever (I had
> fringe parents from way-back), but still to me it was an eye-opener!
the school uses a film about slaughterhouses and peer pressure from her
classmates to pressure her to change her ways. It's also the episode in
which the teacher, the principal, and the cafeteria lady all press their
"Independent Thought Alarm(s)." Very snarky <ggg>
Nancy
--
"No offense, Homer, but your half-assed underparenting was a lot more fun
than your half-assed over-parenting."
--Bart Simpson