[email protected]

In a message dated 12/21/2001 6:17:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:


> Maybe the language is a bit of a technicality...though it breeds
> misunderstanding. I know the Hail, Mary is often thought of as a prayer.
> But what does hail mean...isn't it merely a greeting. Catholics do believe
> in having a special 'devotion' to Mary, but prayer and 'adoration' are for
> God alone.
> Other faiths that believe in eternal life speak with those passed on,
> don't they. And does anyone consider it prayer when they "talk with"
> deceased loved ones, or encounter them in a dream, or feel their presence?
> S
> PS. I know this may be somewhat sensitive for you at this time. I mean no
> offense and sincerely hope you are doing well with recent personal events.
> >
>

Kind of a "Yo! Mary!"?
On the other hand...many, many, MANY Catholics, particularly women, DO
worship Mary. My grandparents were Portuguese, and my grandmother always had
representations of Mary all over the house, including a huge statue under a
glass dome on her dresser. (When she died, no one wanted it. Now I wish I had
taken it.)

When my family went to Portugal a couple of summers ago, one of the places we
went was Fatima. Do you folks know that story? Three shepherd children were
in a field and had a vision of Mary who spoke to them in 1917. She appeared
on six occasions, and she made several predictions, mostly about the war. On
her last appearance 70,000 watched, as she had predicted performing a
miracle. While only the children saw Mary, everyone watched as the sun seemed
to dance in the sky, then fall to the ground, then return to normal.

One of the predictions was that two of the children would die young, and they
did. Those two were recently beatified (a first step toward sainthood) by the
pope. The last, Lucia, is still alive and a nun. (I guess you would almost
have to be.)

Going to Fatima, even as an ex-Catholic, was very powerful. It didn't matter
that >I< didn't necessarily believe, because we were surrounded by people who
did, passionately. It also connected me to my grandmother, who did, and my
mom, who maybe does.

If you're interested, there's a site: http://www.fatima.org/core.html

Kathryn


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sharon Rudd

Thanks Kathryn. I've heard of the occurrances at (of)
Fatima. To me, it seems that prayer is the focusing
of INTENT. The more intent is infused with passion the
better the results. Children with the their unspoiled
abilities are better able to see the manifestations
that are brought about. Healings seem to work better
with children.

It seems, to me, that it doesn't really matter what is
used as a focus or conduit what matters is Heart or
true feelings or the intent of the participants.
There is a connection between everything in the
universe. Or universes. (?) This connection or energy
or Tao or God or or whatever you want to call it can
be tapped into through prayer, or meditation, or
personal power, or dreams, or whatever you want to
call it, and wonderfull (or terrible) things can
happen. Whatever your belief system allows is the way
you will percieve your surroundings and yourself. The
more your belief systems incorporates other belief
systems, the more you can percieve.

All paths lead to one (some have to travel a twisty
turny path, though. Me for example.).

Sharon of the Swamp



> Kind of a "Yo! Mary!"?
> On the other hand...many, many, MANY Catholics,
> particularly women, DO
> worship Mary. My grandparents were Portuguese, and
> my grandmother always had
> representations of Mary all over the house,
> including a huge statue under a
> glass dome on her dresser. (When she died, no one
> wanted it. Now I wish I had
> taken it.)
>
> When my family went to Portugal a couple of summers
> ago, one of the places we
> went was Fatima. Do you folks know that story?
> Three shepherd children were
> in a field and had a vision of Mary who spoke to
> them in 1917. She appeared
> on six occasions, and she made several predictions,
> mostly about the war. On
> her last appearance 70,000 watched, as she had
> predicted performing a
> miracle. While only the children saw Mary, everyone
> watched as the sun seemed
> to dance in the sky, then fall to the ground, then
> return to normal.
>
> One of the predictions was that two of the children
> would die young, and they
> did. Those two were recently beatified (a first step
> toward sainthood) by the
> pope. The last, Lucia, is still alive and a nun. (I
> guess you would almost
> have to be.)
>
> Going to Fatima, even as an ex-Catholic, was very
> powerful. It didn't matter
> that >I< didn't necessarily believe, because we were
> surrounded by people who
> did, passionately. It also connected me to my
> grandmother, who did, and my
> mom, who maybe does.
>
> If you're interested, there's a site:
> http://www.fatima.org/core.html
>
> Kathryn
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


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Joseph Fuerst

Thanks Kathryn...enjoyed reading this story of your connection with your
grandma and the power of being at Fatima. I've heard of it, but never
really explored it.

As to the hail mary...I stand corrected that it IS a prayer. (though "hail"
is still a greeting...It's how Luke describes Gabriel greeting Mary to ask
her about conceiving Jesus.) Anyway, been busy today and will respond to
the prayer issue more fully tomorrow IF this darlingtoddler will sleep a few
hours for me....he's crying now....so gotta go!
S
----- Original Message -----
From: <KathrynJB@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2001 6:24 AM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Immaculate conception...FYI (long response)


> In a message dated 12/21/2001 6:17:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> [email protected] writes:
>
>
> > Maybe the language is a bit of a technicality...though it breeds
> > misunderstanding. I know the Hail, Mary is often thought of as a
prayer.
> > But what does hail mean...isn't it merely a greeting. Catholics do
believe
> > in having a special 'devotion' to Mary, but prayer and 'adoration' are
for
> > God alone.
> > Other faiths that believe in eternal life speak with those passed
on,
> > don't they. And does anyone consider it prayer when they "talk with"
> > deceased loved ones, or encounter them in a dream, or feel their
presence?
> > S
> > PS. I know this may be somewhat sensitive for you at this time. I mean
no
> > offense and sincerely hope you are doing well with recent personal
events.
> > >
> >
>
> Kind of a "Yo! Mary!"?
> On the other hand...many, many, MANY Catholics, particularly women, DO
> worship Mary. My grandparents were Portuguese, and my grandmother always
had
> representations of Mary all over the house, including a huge statue under
a
> glass dome on her dresser. (When she died, no one wanted it. Now I wish I
had
> taken it.)
>
> When my family went to Portugal a couple of summers ago, one of the places
we
> went was Fatima. Do you folks know that story? Three shepherd children
were
> in a field and had a vision of Mary who spoke to them in 1917. She
appeared
> on six occasions, and she made several predictions, mostly about the war.
On
> her last appearance 70,000 watched, as she had predicted performing a
> miracle. While only the children saw Mary, everyone watched as the sun
seemed
> to dance in the sky, then fall to the ground, then return to normal.
>
> One of the predictions was that two of the children would die young, and
they
> did. Those two were recently beatified (a first step toward sainthood) by
the
> pope. The last, Lucia, is still alive and a nun. (I guess you would almost
> have to be.)
>
> Going to Fatima, even as an ex-Catholic, was very powerful. It didn't
matter
> that >I< didn't necessarily believe, because we were surrounded by people
who
> did, passionately. It also connected me to my grandmother, who did, and my
> mom, who maybe does.
>
> If you're interested, there's a site: http://www.fatima.org/core.html
>
> Kathryn
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

zenmomma *

>>Children with the their unspoiled abilities are better able to see the
>>manifestations that are brought about.<<

This reminds me of a thought that has creeped into my consciouness many
times since my kids were babies. It's not really a belief system or anything
concrete, more of just a feeling that comes over me from time to time. When
I look at a baby, especially when I'm not interacting with them, I sense
that they are more "knowing" than we are. They seem to perceive things that
we, as adults, have lost. Like when a baby startles or laughs at nothing in
particular. It could be a physical reponse, a genetic instict, an immature
nervous system. Or maybe it could be that they can still "see" things that
we have lost the ability to see.

When Casey was 2, we once had an interesting conversation. She was pretty
verbal early on, so you could actually have conversations with her at 2.
Anyway, we were driving in the car once and she started telling me about
what life was like when she was "a little girl". She told me that when she
was a little girl everything was white (a snowy place?), and there were no
trees around. She described the setting a little more and then told me about
her mother (!).

She told me her mother died when she was a little girl and she was very sad
about it. It has always made me wonder if she had a fabulously developed
imagination, or if whe was recalling a past life, or (I hope not) seeing
into the future (we now live where there aren't many trees and it's white
for 6 months out of the year.) No matter what, it was an odd conversation to
have with a 2 year old. She doesn't remember any of it now. She's 7.

~Mary

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[email protected]

In a message dated 12/23/01 9:09:31 AM, zenmomma@... writes:

<<
She told me her mother died when she was a little girl and she was very sad
about it. It has always made me wonder if she had a fabulously developed
imagination, or if whe was recalling a past life, >>

I used to LOVE to read those stories, and I think you should maybe pursue it.

There's a book (probably out of print) called The Girl with the Blue Eyes I
think, about a woman somewhere in the U.S. (north east) wo was remembering a
life in Canada, and she remembered so many details they went and found the
ruins of the house, just as she had described it.

And a kid in India remembering a recent life went to that nearby town and
could name all the places and people, even though she was little. And they
were there.

<<No matter what, it was an odd conversation to
have with a 2 year old. She doesn't remember any of it now. She's 7.>>

If she gets interested in past life regression it would be interesting to see
if more of it comes out.

I have a friend who's BIG into that--she's a professional psychic, and she
cares SO much I can't keep a straight face. It usually seems bogus and
worthless to me, and bad things to remember (we have enough grief and angst
from a single life without the burden of others) but then I hear stories like
this about Casey and a shiver goes down me and I remember how exciting those
stories are.

Damn me and my monkey curiosity to hell.

Sandra

[email protected]

On Sun, 23 Dec 2001 09:08:46 -0700 "zenmomma *" <zenmomma@...>
writes:
> When Casey was 2, we once had an interesting conversation. She was
pretty
> verbal early on, so you could actually have conversations with her at
2.
> Anyway, we were driving in the car once and she started telling me
about
> what life was like when she was "a little girl".

Oooo... my Cacie (short for Acacia), when she was 2 and 3, used to talk
about "when I was the mommy and you were the little girl" on a sort of
irregular basis, maybe a half-dozen times total. She always talked about
it like I would know exactly what she meant, like she would talk about
the park we went to last week or something. Onec she talked about there
being a fire, and also about her dad being "the baby" (this is when he
was in prison, so she didn't see him very often) and her grandpa (my dad,
whom she also didn't see very often) being "the dad". The dad and the
baby died in the fire... I didn't quite know what to make of it either,
and she doesn't remember it now (she's almost 9). I remember posting it
to misc.kids at the time, and getting some really odd feedback :-O

About a half hour after my mom died on the morning of the11th, Cacie
apparently "saw" her sitting on the couch with the rest of us - we were
all together, her, me, my dad, my sister (who we called on her cell phone
to tell her and she said "I'm right here in front of your house, I just
came over"), and my brother, just talking and crying, and Cacie saw her
grandma sitting right where she always sat on the corner of the couch.
She didn't mention it at the time, but the next day or the day after, she
turned to me in the car and said something like, "Mom, I think I'm having
some hallucinations." and then described it. I told her that that was
really a good kind of hallucination to have, since she said it made her
feel better.... that sometimes people who have died recently stop by to
visit. I think she was worried that she was becoming mentally ill. We
told my sister about it and she said it made her feel much better ..

I still don't know if I believe that this stuff comes from something
external, or something internal... I'm not sure it matters, really.
Although if she ever wants to do a past-life regression I think it would
be interesting. I'm sure she's quite high on the scale of natural
dissociative abilities - at 3 and 4, she used to while away long car
trips by watching movies with her eyes closed, she could just shut her
eyes and replay them. Now she reads, I wonder if she's lost the skill..

Dar
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zenmomma *

>>Oooo... my Cacie (short for Acacia)<<

Hey! My Casey is short for " AGirlwhoneverstopstalking." ;-) Okay maybe not.

>>, when she was 2 and 3, used to talk
>about "when I was the mommy and you were the little girl"<<

Ooh, this is bringing back a memory, but I can't quite catch it. It's
possible my Casey said this kind of thing too.

>>She always talked about it like I would know exactly what she meant, like
>>she would talk about the park we went to last week or something.<<

Yes. When Casey told me her little girl stories it was always in a remember
when kind of tone.

>About a half hour after my mom died on the morning of the11th, Cacie
>apparently "saw" her sitting on the couch with the rest of us - <<

My brother visited me in a dream after his death. He came once alone, and
the next time he brought my other brother who had died two years earlier.
I've had many strange dreams in my life, but this one was different. It felt
real and glowing and peaceful. I just knew that all was well.

~Mary

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