Tia Leschke

There's been no request not discuss Iraq on this list, so I hope it's ok. I
realized last night that my feelings of helplessness about this war were
getting the better of me and I hadn't done anything at all to try to stop
it. So I went to http://www.earthfuture.com/stopthewar/ and sent off a
bunch of emails. I'll be going to the local candlelight vigil tonight. If
the war happens anyway, at least I tried to do something.

>
> From Coleman Barks, the translator of Rumi, to the US President: Just
> This Once President Bush, before you order air strikes, imagine the first
> cruise missile as a direct hit on your closest friend. That might be
> Laura. Then twenty-five other family and friends. There are no survivors.
> Now imagine some other way to do it. Quadruple the inspectors, or put
> a thousand and one U.N. people in. Then call for peace activists to
> volunteer to go to Iraq for two weeks each. Flood that country with well
> meaning tourists, people curious about the land that produced the great
> saints, Gilani, Hallaj, and Rabia. Set up hostels near those tombs.
> Encourage peace people to spend a bunch of money in shops, to bring
> rugs home and samovars by the bushel. Send an Arabic translator with
> every four peace activists.
>
> The U.S. government will pay for the translators and for building and
> staffing the hostels, one hostel for every twenty activists and five
> translators. The hostels are state of the art, and they belong to the
> Iraqis at the end of this experiment.
>
> Jimmy Carter, Nelson Mandela, and my friend, Jonathan Granoff at the
> U.N.,will be the core organization team. No one knows what might
> come of this. Maybe nothing, or maybe it would convince some Iraqis
> and some of the world that we really do not wish to kill anybody, and
> that we truly are not out to appropriate oil reserves. We're working on
> building a hydrogen vehicle as fast as we can, aren't we? Put no limit on
> the number of activists from all over who might want to hang out and
> explore Iraq for two weeks. And get college credit There could be
> informal courses for pick up soccer games every evening at five. Long
> leisurely suppers. The U. S. government furnishes air transportation,
> that is, hires airliners from the country of origin and back for each
peace
> tourist, who must carry and spend the equivalent of $1001 US inside
> Iraq. Keep part of the invasion force nearby as police, but let those who
> claim to deeply detest war try something else just this once, for one
> year. Call our bluff. If this mad man Saddam's WMD threat is not,
> somehow, eliminated by next February, you can go in with special ops,
> and do it that way.
>
> Medical services, transportation inside Iraq, lots of big colorful buses -
> let the pilgrims paint them! - along with many other ideas that will be
> thought of later during the course of this innocently, blatantly, foolish
> project will all also be funded by the U.S. government.
>
> There's a practice known as sama, a deep listening to poetry and
> music, with movement sometimes involved. We could experiment with
> whole nights of that, staying up until dawn, sleeping in tents during the
> day. So instead of war there's a peace period from March 2003 through
> February 2004. It could be as though war had already happened, as it
> has, and the healing and rebuilding. Now we're in the celebration
> afterward. I'll be the first to volunteer for two weeks of wandering
winter
> desert and reading Hallaj, Abdul Qadir Gilani, dear Rabia, and the life-
> saving 1001 Arabian Nights.
>
> I am Coleman Barks, a retired English professor living in Athens,
> Georgia, and I don't really consider this proposal foolish.
>
>
> ------ End of Forwarded Message
>
>
> --
>
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Penny Holder

There's been no request not discuss Iraq on this list, so I hope it's ok.
I
> realized last night that my feelings of helplessness about this war were


Most groups do not discuss religion, politics, etc because of the huge
debates those subjects cause.

Personally I am backing Bush and the War.

You need to listen to the song I heard on the radio yesterday. It goes,"
Have you forgotten what happened on 9/11". It is easy to forget since it is
not fresh on our minds. I bet it someone attacked the US tomorrow you would
change your tune.

Anyway you expressed your opinion and I have expressed mine. Neither yours
nor mine will change the war that is going to happen.

I am going to work on things that I know will help people on this group
which is my homeschooling website.

Penny
http://learnathome.tripod.com

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/16/03 11:59:32 AM, leschke@... writes:

<< There's been no request not discuss Iraq on this list, so I hope it's ok.
>>

I'd rather not. Not because it's not important, and not because it's off
topic, but because it's stress-producing.

I don't get the newspaper or watch the news regularly, because I want peace
in my own house. If we let the threat of war control our moods and thoughts,
we're already victims of war.

Let's let the list be about our kids' lives, and not about international
politics. If we don't make some havens, there will be none.

It's not an awful thing, Tia, but some of the same people who would like a
peaceful cove are on this list as well as the other.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/16/03 12:16:59 PM, learnathome@... writes:

<< I am going to work on things that I know will help people on this group
which is my homeschooling website. >>

Pretty nice site, but not big on unschooling.
Lots of Christian sites and lots of structure.

(Just wanted to keep everyone here from needing to go look, since there are
lots of pop-up pages too.)

Sandra

marji

At 09:17 3/16/03 -0800, Tia wrote:
>There's been no request not discuss Iraq on this list, so I hope it's ok.

I hope so, too, Tia.

>I realized last night that my feelings of helplessness about this war were
>getting the better of me and I hadn't done anything at all to try to stop
>it. So I went to http://www.earthfuture.com/stopthewar/ and sent off a
>bunch of emails. I'll be going to the local candlelight vigil
>tonight. If the war happens anyway, at least I tried to do something.

I've been fairly consumed with rallies, marches, vigils, meetings, attempts
at getting a peace resolution passed in my mainly right-wing, conservative
county. I also feel a sense of frustration about this impending war. I
just got back in the door from a march and rally at West Point Military
Academy, which is located in my county. We had beautiful weather for a
change, as we did in the march and rally in Washington, DC, yesterday. Our
message today was, "Support our troops, bring them home." I was impressed
with the coalition that was present today: We had a speaker from the
organization Military Families Speak Out ( http://www.mfso.org/ ), a
speaker from the Green party, and a retired lieutenant from the
marines. This man was about as right wing and conservative as you can get,
but he strongly opposes the war in Iraq and the misappropriation of money
and personnel in that area.

I really like Coleman Barks' message. I wonder how many *ordinary* people
would be willing to take two weeks out of their lives and travel over to
Iraq to wage peace. (I would.)

But, I believe there is a more basic question, and it's a tough one. In the
United States we have become accustomed to a certain standard of living
which depends heavily on the availability of cheap oil. I wonder how many
of us would be willing to adopt the changes in our lifestyle necessary to
reduce our dependence on oil. I know our government is not willing to
steward us towards those kinds of changes (actions speak louder than
words). But, we, the people, have tremendous untapped power. I believe
that all we need is a will and a focus. If we can equate our comfortable
lifestyle with the discomfort of children in other quarters of the world,
and if we can hold that vision, I'd be willing to bet that we could obviate
the *need* for war.

Here is a link to an interesting article by Thom Hartmann about how we have
come to this point in our history. It's the best thing I've seen yet in
laying it all out clearly.

http://www.guerrillanews.com/human_rights/doc1158.html

I gotta go put my feet up for a few minutes and get my candle ready for
tonight!! See you out there!

Marji

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

marji

At 14:23 3/16/03 -0500, Sandra wrote:

>In a message dated 3/16/03 11:59:32 AM, leschke@... writes:
>
><< There's been no request not discuss Iraq on this list, so I hope it's ok.
> >>
>
>I'd rather not. Not because it's not important, and not because it's off
>topic, but because it's stress-producing. (snip) Let's let the list be
>about our kids' lives, and not about international politics. If we don't
>make some havens, there will be none. (snip) It's not an awful thing, Tia,
>but some of the same people who would like a peaceful cove are on this
>list as well as the other.
>
>Sandra

My apologies, Sandra - and the rest of the list!! I should have read all
the responses to Tia's post before posting mine. If anyone would like to
continue the conversation, I would be more than happy to be emailed off
list to keep still the waters of this peaceful cove.

Respectfully,

Marji

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Shyrley

> I've been fairly consumed with rallies, marches, vigils, meetings, attempts
> at getting a peace resolution passed in my mainly right-wing, conservative
> county. I also feel a sense of frustration about this impending war. I
> just got back in the door from a march and rally at West Point Military
> Academy, which is located in my county. We had beautiful weather for a
> change, as we did in the march and rally in Washington, DC, yesterday.

How come you never said Hi? I was there too. And I got sunburned :-(

> Our
> message today was, "Support our troops, bring them home." I was impressed
> with the coalition that was present today: We had a speaker from the
> organization Military Families Speak Out ( http://www.mfso.org/ ), a
> speaker from the Green party, and a retired lieutenant from the
> marines. This man was about as right wing and conservative as you can get,
> but he strongly opposes the war in Iraq and the misappropriation of money
> and personnel in that area.

I was impressed in DC yesterday how many veterans there were.

>
>
> I really like Coleman Barks' message. I wonder how many *ordinary* people
> would be willing to take two weeks out of their lives and travel over to
> Iraq to wage peace. (I would.)

Yup

>
>
> But, I believe there is a more basic question, and it's a tough one. In the
> United States we have become accustomed to a certain standard of living
> which depends heavily on the availability of cheap oil. I wonder how many
> of us would be willing to adopt the changes in our lifestyle necessary to
> reduce our dependence on oil.

Funny you should ask that. On the VA list I aske dthe same question. How many people would
take some steps, like drying laundry outside or walking for errands under 2 miles, cycling
for 5 mile errands etc etc. I have had to leave the list under a barrage of nastiness about
being a fanatic, an environmentalist (this is obviously an evil crime in VA....), people
declaring they love their SUV's and dryers just to try and annoy me.
I try and minimise my impact on the earth as much as can given where I live and what is
available. I cycle to the supermarket and buy organic. I don't own a dryer. I wont buy
over-packaged food. My countrysigned the Kyoto treaty - get on to your reps too get America
to do the same.
Unfortunately I get a lot of abuse. When I use the car (about once a week) people take
exception to my 'End Oil Addiction, ride a bike' sticker.
Ho hum

> I know our government is not willing to
> steward us towards those kinds of changes (actions speak louder than
> words). But, we, the people, have tremendous untapped power. I believe
> that all we need is a will and a focus. If we can equate our comfortable
> lifestyle with the discomfort of children in other quarters of the world,
> and if we can hold that vision, I'd be willing to bet that we could obviate
> the *need* for war.
>

Yeah, its a sobering thought that most of the worlds population lives in 1 dollar a day.
Something has to change though. The world cannot support everyone living in western
oppulance, even if we wished it. I'd like to see a movement back to simpler lifestyles,
more community based, more public transport, more locally grown produce. People having time
for easch other rather than having a palm pilot in one hand adnd a cell phone clamped to
one ear.
Ho hum.

A start is
http://www.newdream.org/

They have a 9-step list of little things everyone can do to start to make a difference.

Shyrley

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/16/2003 1:24:46 PM Central Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

> I don't get the newspaper or watch the news regularly, because I want peace
> in my own house. If we let the threat of war control our moods and
> thoughts,
> we're already victims of war.
>
>

Respecting your request not to discuss the politics of it all. But I have to
say it's not easy to ignore when your son is involved.

My son comes home from his Army training on Tuesday. He and Mandy have an
apartment waiting, which means he's moving out of my house. His unit has not
been activated as of yet, but that could change this week. 650 of my own
former National Guard unit have gone already. I am trying to keep my house
peaceful, too, but there will be no peace in my heart until this is over and
my son is safe with his fiance and back in college.

All of you who have opinions about what our government is doing and opinions
about people on the opposite side of the fence as you, stop and think about
me, and the rest of the folks like me, for whom this is not just a
discussion.

Tuck


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

coyote's corner

I agree.
Peace,
Janis

Coyotes Corner
Very Cool Stuff for the World
<www.coyotescorner.com>

-----Original Message-----
From: SandraDodd@... [mailto:SandraDodd@...]
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 3:04 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Fw: [hs-ca] (Fwd) Dearest President from
Coleman Barks


In a message dated 3/16/03 12:16:59 PM, learnathome@... writes:

<< I am going to work on things that I know will help people on this group
which is my homeschooling website. >>

Pretty nice site, but not big on unschooling.
Lots of Christian sites and lots of structure.

(Just wanted to keep everyone here from needing to go look, since there are
lots of pop-up pages too.)

Sandra



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Maggie Lesoing

Tia, thanks for your email!

We will have peace on the planet when we all lead peaceful lives.
That's one of the many reasons I am an unschooling mom for my 2 boys.
Thanks so much for your thoughts on this war on Iraq. For some reason
so many people are connecting the war to the 9/11 tragedy, when there is
no connection. I don't want Iraqi people, mostly children, to die for
any reason.

We all need to raise our voices for peace regardless of the location.
Peace is our goal.

Thanks, Tia!

Maggie Lesoing

==========================
[hs-ca] (Fwd) Dearest President from Coleman Barks

There's been no request not discuss Iraq on this list, so I hope it's
ok. I
realized last night that my feelings of helplessness about this war were
getting the better of me and I hadn't done anything at all to try to stop
it. So I went to http://www.earthfuture.com/stopthewar/ and sent off a
bunch of emails. I'll be going to the local candlelight vigil tonight.
If
the war happens anyway, at least I tried to do something.


From Coleman Barks, the translator of Rumi, to the US President: Just
This Once President Bush, before you order air strikes, imagine the first
cruise missile as a direct hit on your closest friend. That might be
Laura. Then twenty-five other family and friends. There are no survivors.
Now imagine some other way to do it. Quadruple the inspectors, or put
a thousand and one U.N. people in. Then call for peace activists to
volunteer to go to Iraq for two weeks each. Flood that country with well
meaning tou


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/17/03 6:52:57 AM, Tuckervill@... writes:

<< Respecting your request not to discuss the politics of it all. But I have
to
say it's not easy to ignore when your son is involved. >>

Discussing one's own child seems a reasonable thing to do.

Discussing ancient enmity between France and England in the context of what's
going on today seems to me just to add to the stressfest. And that part's
hard too, because I've been fascinated by the France/England thing since
watching Robin Hood on TV in the 1950's.

Where should we draw the line and how do we let people know and keep peace
here without that itself being a conflict on the list?

-=-stop and think about
me, and the rest of the folks like me, for whom this is not just a
discussion.-=-

But that's exactly WHY I think it would be good to have a place for people to
get away from it and discuss unschooling.

If people have ideas about allowing discussion of immediate family members,
let me know.

Sandra

Kate Green

First Tuck and all the others, as a person who is surrounded by military
(and dh just retired after 22 years) you have my warmest thoughts -- we
went thru the Gulf War in the UK and it was very stressful just being on
the sidelines.

Not to discuss this though:) Just thought I'd share a quick story.

Living here in the Middle East right now is certainly exciting. We are
currently awaiting possible evacuation orders. All the embassy family
members in the UAE have gone and just recently we've seen Kuwait is on the
next higher level of evacuation. We don't know what that means for us yet
(we seem to follow along a few days after). I just hope they will fly the
dog and cat out as well as us.

Anyway back to my story. Last week the kids and I were at the mall. They
were riding on the bumper cars (amusement park inside it) and having a
blast chasing and hitting another couple of boys. Their mother was standing
next to me. She was Muslim and spoke little English. We communicated
somehow as we both kept gasping when they hit too hard. She pointed to her
neck and I nodded knowing we were worried about the boys getting hurt. She
then rubbed my 3 month old's back who was sleeping in his sling. She gave
him Allah's blessing and said beautiful baby. I thanked her and she asked
me where I was from (we all use pidgeon here). I said England and asked her
where she was from. She smiled at me and said Iraq. I kind of smiled
nervously/apologetically and she reached out and held my hand against the
baby. We just kind of stood there for a few minutes and watched our boys
shrieking with laughter playing on the cars. Then the ride finished and we
all went our separate ways. I asked my guys if they'd talked to the boys.
They said sure, they were really nice. I said they are Iraqi. My kids said
"yeah. we know. So what."

It was a nice meeting.

Kate

Shyrley

Kate Green wrote:

> First Tuck and all the others, as a person who is surrounded by military
> (and dh just retired after 22 years) you have my warmest thoughts -- we
> went thru the Gulf War in the UK and it was very stressful just being on
> the sidelines.
>
> Not to discuss this though:) Just thought I'd share a quick story.
>
> Living here in the Middle East right now is certainly exciting. We are
> currently awaiting possible evacuation orders. All the embassy family
> members in the UAE have gone and just recently we've seen Kuwait is on the
> next higher level of evacuation. We don't know what that means for us yet
> (we seem to follow along a few days after). I just hope they will fly the
> dog and cat out as well as us.
>

Are people leaving the UAE?
I'm asking cos my brother lives in Dubai and we don't have his phone number.
Emails to him have gone un-answered :-(
Is therea way of getting hold of people's phone numbers in UAE?

Shyrley

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/17/2003 10:43:42 AM Central Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

> -=-stop and think about
> me, and the rest of the folks like me, for whom this is not just a
> discussion.-=-
>
> But that's exactly WHY I think it would be good to have a place for people
> to
> get away from it and discuss unschooling.
>

Yeah, that's basically what I was saying. I was speaking to the folks who
are going elsewhere to discuss it, too.

I can't stomach debate about the issue, especially if it's heated. I'm
conflicted in all ways about it. I've decided to focus all the energy I
would have otherwise given to a debate of such an issue to sending positive
energy out to my son. It's all I can do.

Tuck


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/17/2003 11:52:08 AM Central Standard Time,
karegree@... writes:

> First Tuck and all the others, as a person who is surrounded by military
> (and dh just retired after 22 years) you have my warmest thoughts -- we
> went thru the Gulf War in the UK and it was very stressful just being on
> the sidelines.
>

Kate, I wish for your utmost safety while you are there!

Thanks so much for sharing that story.

Tuck


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

nellebelle

Thanks for sharing that Kate. It brought tears to my eyes.

I spoke with my mom on the phone this morning. She lives about a 4 hour drive away from us. She said she wanted us to know that no matter what happens she loves us.

I am starting to get really scared.

Mary Ellen
----- snip -----and she reached out and held my hand against the
baby. We just kind of stood there for a few minutes and watched our boys
shrieking with laughter playing on the cars.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/17/03 12:14:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,
nellebelle@... writes:

> Thanks for sharing that Kate. It brought tears to my eyes.
>
>

Ditto here. Great story.

Rhonda


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

coyote's corner

Thanks Maggie & Tia.
Well said.

Janis
Mom to SSgt Jean-Luc Calouro USAF



Coyotes Corner
Very Cool Stuff for the World
<www.coyotescorner.com>

-----Original Message-----
From: Maggie Lesoing [mailto:maggiel@...]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 10:06 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Dearest President from Coleman Barks

Tia, thanks for your email!

We will have peace on the planet when we all lead peaceful lives.
That's one of the many reasons I am an unschooling mom for my 2 boys.
Thanks so much for your thoughts on this war on Iraq. For some reason
so many people are connecting the war to the 9/11 tragedy, when there is
no connection. I don't want Iraqi people, mostly children, to die for
any reason.

We all need to raise our voices for peace regardless of the location.
Peace is our goal.

Thanks, Tia!

Maggie Lesoing

==========================
[hs-ca] (Fwd) Dearest President from Coleman Barks

There's been no request not discuss Iraq on this list, so I hope it's
ok. I
realized last night that my feelings of helplessness about this war were
getting the better of me and I hadn't done anything at all to try to stop
it. So I went to http://www.earthfuture.com/stopthewar/ and sent off a
bunch of emails. I'll be going to the local candlelight vigil tonight.
If
the war happens anyway, at least I tried to do something.


From Coleman Barks, the translator of Rumi, to the US President: Just
This Once President Bush, before you order air strikes, imagine the first
cruise missile as a direct hit on your closest friend. That might be
Laura. Then twenty-five other family and friends. There are no survivors.
Now imagine some other way to do it. Quadruple the inspectors, or put
a thousand and one U.N. people in. Then call for peace activists to
volunteer to go to Iraq for two weeks each. Flood that country with well
meaning tou


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

coyote's corner

Thank you so very much for that story. I guess I don't have to say what I'm
thinking..and why I'm crying.
Janis

Coyotes Corner
Very Cool Stuff for the World
20% of Sales During
March will go to the
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<www.coyotescorner.com>

-----Original Message-----
From: Kate Green [mailto:karegree@...]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 12:35 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] a chance meeting

First Tuck and all the others, as a person who is surrounded by military
(and dh just retired after 22 years) you have my warmest thoughts -- we
went thru the Gulf War in the UK and it was very stressful just being on
the sidelines.

Not to discuss this though:) Just thought I'd share a quick story.

Living here in the Middle East right now is certainly exciting. We are
currently awaiting possible evacuation orders. All the embassy family
members in the UAE have gone and just recently we've seen Kuwait is on the
next higher level of evacuation. We don't know what that means for us yet
(we seem to follow along a few days after). I just hope they will fly the
dog and cat out as well as us.

Anyway back to my story. Last week the kids and I were at the mall. They
were riding on the bumper cars (amusement park inside it) and having a
blast chasing and hitting another couple of boys. Their mother was standing
next to me. She was Muslim and spoke little English. We communicated
somehow as we both kept gasping when they hit too hard. She pointed to her
neck and I nodded knowing we were worried about the boys getting hurt. She
then rubbed my 3 month old's back who was sleeping in his sling. She gave
him Allah's blessing and said beautiful baby. I thanked her and she asked
me where I was from (we all use pidgeon here). I said England and asked her
where she was from. She smiled at me and said Iraq. I kind of smiled
nervously/apologetically and she reached out and held my hand against the
baby. We just kind of stood there for a few minutes and watched our boys
shrieking with laughter playing on the cars. Then the ride finished and we
all went our separate ways. I asked my guys if they'd talked to the boys.
They said sure, they were really nice. I said they are Iraqi. My kids said
"yeah. we know. So what."

It was a nice meeting.

Kate




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kate Green

>>
>
> Are people leaving the UAE?
> I'm asking cos my brother lives in Dubai and we don't have his phone number.
> Emails to him have gone un-answered :-(
> way of getting hold of people's phone numbers in UAE?
>
> Shyrley

Some are but it's not a mass exodus yet. Americans have been advised to
leave and Brits kind of warned. If you send me his name I'll call
information and try and get his number for you. Or better if you have his
work contact as so many people are identified thru that (we don't have
street addresses here).

Kate

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