nellebelle

I sent this to unschooling@yahoogroups, but they still seem to be down and I
really need some feedback.



I hope this is an OK question to ask here. Here is the short question: Any
advice on helping a 10yo kid with motion sickness tendencies better endure a
4 hour car ride? We have tried Dramamine (sort of works, but puts her out
and she HATES to take it); those bracelets that are worn on the wrist with
pressure points (didn't work); leave as late in the day as possible
(definitely helps); eating just the right amount beforehand and having
certain snacks for the ride (helps somewhat). Reading doesn't help,
listening to stories on tape does.

Here is some related stuff that I'm thinking about. This same daughter
doesn't like to go in elevators. Not much of a problem, as there aren't
very many in our community, and the few that we do have are in short
buildings, so taking the stairs is a reasonable option. Dd told gramma (my
mom) that she has a phobia about elevators. (Dd learned that a fear of
something is called a phobia, and so she did use the term to refer to her
dislike of elevators, but has certainly never been to a psychologist for
diagnosis of this!) My mom, who has a background in psychiatric nursing,
told me that I need to force her to go in elevators, because that is the
only way she will overcome this "phobia". Allowing her to avoid elevators
will only make it worse, she says. My mom referred to her own "phobia" of
driving on the freeway. She avoided the freeway for years, until finally
she needed to go some places that were nearly impossible without freeway
driving. She drives the freeway regularly now, though she still is
uncomfortable with it. I pointed out that when she finally wanted to bad
enough, then she was able to do it.

Tonight at dinner, dh asked if we want to go with him this weekend to visit
Gramma, a 4 hour car ride. Lisa had tears in her eyes and said she doesn't
like the car ride. My recent conversation with my mom about the elevator
"phobia" came to mind, even though I thought my moms concerns were
overblown. Everyone else in the family would like to go on the trip. Lisa
would like to see Gramma, but doesn't want to have to go in the car to see
her.

I'm willing to consider any thoughts that anyone is willing to share on this
issue. She doesn't always get sick, but I know that trips are stressful for
her because she does worry about it. I also know that "feeling" carsick,
even if you don't get sick, is NO FUN!

Mary Ellen

[email protected]

In a message dated 2/19/03 11:01:13 AM Eastern Standard Time,
nellebelle@... writes:

> I'm willing to consider any thoughts that anyone is willing to share on this
> issue. She doesn't always get sick, but I know that trips are stressful
> for
> her because she does worry about it. I also know that "feeling" carsick,
> even if you don't get sick, is NO FUN!
>
>

My son used to get car sick but thankfully has grown out of it. Still
occasionally happens. What helps for us:
-Sitting in the front seat or somewhere so he can see out the front window.
-Having his window open a crack so he gets fresh air on his face
***-Stopping every 1/2 hour so he can walk around for a minute or two to get
grounded. ( I thought of this one as I grew up on the water and every time
that I got sea sick it helped just being on land and it helps him with car
sickness too) We didn't stop for long just at a rest stop or on a side road
so he could walk for a minute. This was the greatest help.

I also disagree with making anyone do anything especially if it is
frightening for them. Although I don't have a psych degree and do not have a
phobia myself. I would think it would make the fear worse to be pushed.
Pam G.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Todd Tyrtle

Mary Ellen,

At Wednesday, 19 February 2003, you wrote:

>I sent this to unschooling@yahoogroups, but they still seem to be
down and I
>really need some feedback.
>
>I hope this is an OK question to ask here. Here is the short question:
Any
>advice on helping a 10yo kid with motion sickness tendencies better
endure a
>4 hour car ride? We have tried Dramamine (sort of works, but puts
her out
>and she HATES to take it); those bracelets that are worn on the
wrist with
>pressure points (didn't work); leave as late in the day as possible
>(definitely helps); eating just the right amount beforehand and having
>certain snacks for the ride (helps somewhat). Reading doesn't help,
>listening to stories on tape does.

I don't know if you've already tryed this but my wife and a friend
of mine's daughter have both had good luck with a homeopathic remedy.
I *think* it's by Boiron but I've seen it in just about every health
food store I've ever been to (sorry I can't be any more descriptive).
Sage (my wife) says that in her case, reading actually causes carsickness
for her.
>
>Here is some related stuff that I'm thinking about. This same daughter
>doesn't like to go in elevators. Not much of a problem, as there
aren't
>very many in our community, and the few that we do have are in short
>buildings, so taking the stairs is a reasonable option. Dd told
gramma (my
>mom) that she has a phobia about elevators. (Dd learned that a fear of
>something is called a phobia, and so she did use the term to refer
to her
>dislike of elevators, but has certainly never been to a psychologist
for
>diagnosis of this!) My mom, who has a background in psychiatric
nursing,
>told me that I need to force her to go in elevators, because that
is the
>only way she will overcome this "phobia". Allowing her to avoid
elevators

Hmmm...I don't know if this is a problem, actually. IMO there's
nothing wrong with using the stairs anywhere. If you never have
to encounter something is it a problem? I think forcing anyone to
do anything that is that uneccessary is a mistake and could only
cause more problems (but then I'm not a psychiatric nurse).

>will only make it worse, she says. My mom referred to her own "phobia"
of
>driving on the freeway. She avoided the freeway for years, until
finally
>she needed to go some places that were nearly impossible without
freeway
>driving. She drives the freeway regularly now, though she still is
>uncomfortable with it. I pointed out that when she finally wanted
to bad
>enough, then she was able to do it.

Exactly - it became necessary for her to drive on freeways and she
made it happen (as an adult, I might add, with nobody forcing her).
If someday your daughter decides that it's really necessary to
go to the observation deck at the Empire State Building and doesn't
want to climb all of those stairs I'm sure she'll figure out a way
to deal with it.

>Tonight at dinner, dh asked if we want to go with him this weekend
to visit
>Gramma, a 4 hour car ride. Lisa had tears in her eyes and said
she doesn't
>like the car ride. My recent conversation with my mom about the
elevator
>"phobia" came to mind, even though I thought my moms concerns were
>overblown. Everyone else in the family would like to go on the
trip. Lisa
>would like to see Gramma, but doesn't want to have to go in the
car to see
>her.

Just another thought - does she get motion sickness on trains, buses
or planes and if not, is this an option for you to visit her?

Hope this helps,
-Todd

Fetteroll

No one seems to be getting mail on the Unschooling-dotcom list. I've written
to Yahoo but no word back yet. Who knows how long it will be, especially if
that's not the only list affected.

Joyce

[email protected]

In a message dated 2/19/2003 11:00:25 AM Eastern Standard Time,
nellebelle@... writes:

> I'm willing to consider any thoughts that anyone is willing to share on this
> issue.

Ginger snaps to eat or fresh ginger to sniff when she's feeling ill. NO
reading. Tapes are good. Front seat? Frequent stops?

~Good luck!

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Shyrley

nellebelle wrote:

> I sent this to unschooling@yahoogroups, but they still seem to be down and I
> really need some feedback.
>
> I hope this is an OK question to ask here. Here is the short question: Any
> advice on helping a 10yo kid with motion sickness tendencies better endure a
> 4 hour car ride? We have tried Dramamine (sort of works, but puts her out
> and she HATES to take it); those bracelets that are worn on the wrist with
> pressure points (didn't work); leave as late in the day as possible
> (definitely helps); eating just the right amount beforehand and having
> certain snacks for the ride (helps somewhat). Reading doesn't help,
> listening to stories on tape does.

She has my sympathies. I spent my entire life car-sick. Riding in the front is a
big help. Reading is the worst thing she can do.

>
>
> Here is some related stuff that I'm thinking about. This same daughter
> doesn't like to go in elevators. Not much of a problem, as there aren't
> very many in our community, and the few that we do have are in short
> buildings, so taking the stairs is a reasonable option. Dd told gramma (my
> mom) that she has a phobia about elevators. (Dd learned that a fear of
> something is called a phobia, and so she did use the term to refer to her
> dislike of elevators, but has certainly never been to a psychologist for
> diagnosis of this!) My mom, who has a background in psychiatric nursing,
> told me that I need to force her to go in elevators, because that is the
> only way she will overcome this "phobia". Allowing her to avoid elevators
> will only make it worse, she says.

Forcing will make the phobia worse. I was a clinical psychologist before my
brain fell out. There are proper ways to deal with phobias. Forcing ain't one of
them.
My son wont go in elevators as he got trapped in one on his own when he was 8.
We were in Paris and he took the elevator down to the lobby - it was about 2
foot square. Really tiny. It got stuck. I could hear him shouting and screaming
and banging on the walls. It was awful as I couldn't get too my child :-(
He hasn't been in one since.

> My mom referred to her own "phobia" of
> driving on the freeway. She avoided the freeway for years, until finally
> she needed to go some places that were nearly impossible without freeway
> driving. She drives the freeway regularly now, though she still is
> uncomfortable with it. I pointed out that when she finally wanted to bad
> enough, then she was able to do it.

Yeah, as an adult she could make that decision. It also wasn't a phobia. A
phobia is irrational and isn't usually overcome by managing to do it when it is
convienient.

>
>
> Tonight at dinner, dh asked if we want to go with him this weekend to visit
> Gramma, a 4 hour car ride. Lisa had tears in her eyes and said she doesn't
> like the car ride. My recent conversation with my mom about the elevator
> "phobia" came to mind, even though I thought my moms concerns were
> overblown. Everyone else in the family would like to go on the trip. Lisa
> would like to see Gramma, but doesn't want to have to go in the car to see
> her.
>
> I'm willing to consider any thoughts that anyone is willing to share on this
> issue. She doesn't always get sick, but I know that trips are stressful for
> her because she does worry about it. I also know that "feeling" carsick,
> even if you don't get sick, is NO FUN!

I'd let her ride up front. There are anti-sickness drugs but they leave you
feeling whoozy. For me, it was riding up front that was the only thing that
helped. I never ride in the back even now cos I still get sick and even being a
passenger makes me ill.
Can Gramma not come and visit you?

Shyrley

coyote's corner

My healer recommends ginger or peppermint.


Coyotes Corner
Very Cool Stuff for the World
<www.coyotescorner.com>

-----Original Message-----
From: Shyrley [mailto:shyrley.williams@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 11:38 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] car ride advice



nellebelle wrote:

> I sent this to unschooling@yahoogroups, but they still seem to be down and
I
> really need some feedback.
>
> I hope this is an OK question to ask here. Here is the short question:
Any
> advice on helping a 10yo kid with motion sickness tendencies better endure
a
> 4 hour car ride? We have tried Dramamine (sort of works, but puts her out
> and she HATES to take it); those bracelets that are worn on the wrist with
> pressure points (didn't work); leave as late in the day as possible
> (definitely helps); eating just the right amount beforehand and having
> certain snacks for the ride (helps somewhat). Reading doesn't help,
> listening to stories on tape does.

She has my sympathies. I spent my entire life car-sick. Riding in the front
is a
big help. Reading is the worst thing she can do.

>
>
> Here is some related stuff that I'm thinking about. This same daughter
> doesn't like to go in elevators. Not much of a problem, as there aren't
> very many in our community, and the few that we do have are in short
> buildings, so taking the stairs is a reasonable option. Dd told gramma
(my
> mom) that she has a phobia about elevators. (Dd learned that a fear of
> something is called a phobia, and so she did use the term to refer to her
> dislike of elevators, but has certainly never been to a psychologist for
> diagnosis of this!) My mom, who has a background in psychiatric nursing,
> told me that I need to force her to go in elevators, because that is the
> only way she will overcome this "phobia". Allowing her to avoid elevators
> will only make it worse, she says.

Forcing will make the phobia worse. I was a clinical psychologist before my
brain fell out. There are proper ways to deal with phobias. Forcing ain't
one of
them.
My son wont go in elevators as he got trapped in one on his own when he was
8.
We were in Paris and he took the elevator down to the lobby - it was about 2
foot square. Really tiny. It got stuck. I could hear him shouting and
screaming
and banging on the walls. It was awful as I couldn't get too my child :-(
He hasn't been in one since.

> My mom referred to her own "phobia" of
> driving on the freeway. She avoided the freeway for years, until finally
> she needed to go some places that were nearly impossible without freeway
> driving. She drives the freeway regularly now, though she still is
> uncomfortable with it. I pointed out that when she finally wanted to bad
> enough, then she was able to do it.

Yeah, as an adult she could make that decision. It also wasn't a phobia. A
phobia is irrational and isn't usually overcome by managing to do it when it
is
convienient.

>
>
> Tonight at dinner, dh asked if we want to go with him this weekend to
visit
> Gramma, a 4 hour car ride. Lisa had tears in her eyes and said she
doesn't
> like the car ride. My recent conversation with my mom about the elevator
> "phobia" came to mind, even though I thought my moms concerns were
> overblown. Everyone else in the family would like to go on the trip.
Lisa
> would like to see Gramma, but doesn't want to have to go in the car to see
> her.
>
> I'm willing to consider any thoughts that anyone is willing to share on
this
> issue. She doesn't always get sick, but I know that trips are stressful
for
> her because she does worry about it. I also know that "feeling" carsick,
> even if you don't get sick, is NO FUN!

I'd let her ride up front. There are anti-sickness drugs but they leave you
feeling whoozy. For me, it was riding up front that was the only thing that
helped. I never ride in the back even now cos I still get sick and even
being a
passenger makes me ill.
Can Gramma not come and visit you?

Shyrley






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Deborah Lewis

*** Any
advice on helping a 10yo kid with motion sickness tendencies better
endure a
4 hour car ride? ***

Find a way for her to sit up front. Rent a pickup if you have to (turn
the passenger airbag off) and follow the rest of your family there.
Sitting up high like that in the front seat really helps. She needs to
have an unobstructed view out the front window. If she's a little ten
year old maybe a booster seat in the back seat of your car, in the middle
so she can see out if there's no way to sit up front.

We didn't know Dylan got carsick until we sold our truck. Stuck in the
back seat behind those tall bucket seats almost killed him. We got
another truck.<g> He can ride in the car now if he's up front, or in
the middle of the back seat and if he's wearing "seabands" the bracelets
you talked about.

Stop frequently. After a bad case of carsickness hits the person can be
sick for hours or days. It doesn't just stop when the car does.
Awful!

You can tell her that she doesn't have a phobia and not to worry about
it. Sheesh! So she doesn't like elevators! Big deal. She probably
doesn't like them for the same reason she'd like to avoid a long car
ride. She probably feels ill when she's on one. I wouldn't force her,
she needs to be able to trust you to keep her safe. You could foul all
that up if you force her to do something that's scary or sickening.
Just let her be and tell Gramma to shush.

I'm sorry about the car sickness. Nobody should ever feel that bad.

Deb L

Tia Leschke

> I hope this is an OK question to ask here. Here is the short question:
Any
> advice on helping a 10yo kid with motion sickness tendencies better endure
a
> 4 hour car ride? We have tried Dramamine (sort of works, but puts her out
> and she HATES to take it); those bracelets that are worn on the wrist with
> pressure points (didn't work); leave as late in the day as possible
> (definitely helps); eating just the right amount beforehand and having
> certain snacks for the ride (helps somewhat). Reading doesn't help,
> listening to stories on tape does.

I doubt that stuff about the elevator is pertinent. I got carsick *a lot*
as a kid. Any curvy road and I was at least nauseous. It stopped soon
after puberty, so you might be able to give her hope. Commercial fishermen
around here put powdered ginger in capsules and take some before starting
out or at the first sign of bad weather. I would try that, or make tea with
slices of ginger and honey, if she likes the taste of ginger.

What worked for me as a child? - *DON'T READ!!!* Someone else can read
aloud, or she can listen to books on tape, but she shouldn't try to focus on
anything *inside* the car, or even to the side of the car. I used to have
to look at the centre line on the highway ahead. Usually that meant sitting
in the front seat. If you can drive when she would be sleepy, that's the
best. It's weird, but lying down with eyes closed is fine, even sitting up
with eyes closed. Sitting up and actually looking at something in the car?
No. As much fresh air as possible. If it's cold, maybe the window by her
could be open a little, or for a few minutes every hour. Once she really
feels nauseous the best thing is to find a place to stop, let her stretch
and move around and get some fresh air. Don't start again until her tummy
is fine.
Good luck to her!
Tia

Tia Leschke

> Just another thought - does she get motion sickness on trains, buses
> or planes and if not, is this an option for you to visit her?

I don't know about planes, but buses were worse for me. And trains? My
family decided the year I was 10 to take the coast route from California to
Washington. They knew I would have trouble with the road, so they got my
grandmother to take the train down from Washington, and then take the train
back there with me. That was going to be more comfortable for me . . . not!
I spent almost the whole trip in the can throwing up or threatening to.
Tia

Tia Leschke

> No one seems to be getting mail on the Unschooling-dotcom list. I've
written
> to Yahoo but no word back yet. Who knows how long it will be, especially
if
> that's not the only list affected.

I've gotten mail from this list and three other Yahoo lists today, but not
unschooling-dotcom.
Tia

[email protected]

In a message dated 2/19/03 9:01:13 AM, nellebelle@... writes:

<< Any
advice on helping a 10yo kid with motion sickness tendencies better endure a
4 hour car ride? >>

Let her ride in the front, and if it's not too cold, let outside air in.
Dramamine and sleeping were my dream conditions, but my parents didn't know
about Dramamine, so it wasn't until I was a teen and able to find it on my
own that I had that option. I used to have to take it on planerides. I
don't have to anymore, but I still do sometimes if it's going to be several
hours, because it knocks me out and I don't have to just "BE" for several
hours.

Remind her to breathe.

Maybe take tapes she will sing along to, because singing ends up inducing
deep breathing.

If anyone is smoking cigarettes in the car, make them stop it, clean out the
ashtray, and air out the deoderize and vacuum the car. My parents both
smoked and I puked OFTEN. Instead of undoing their filthy habit, they just
laughed at me and told people I couldn't ride in a car without puking.

When I stopped riding with THEM, I could ride fine if nobody was smoking.

Reading makes it worse. Any close work (sewing) where the peripheral vision
is moving but the eye-focus isn't will make it worse.

Stopping every hour or so to be still and walk and breathe outside air will
help. Make a four hour drive a five hour drive with a half hour mid-stop and
two fifteen minute breaks. That will help.

Sandra

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 2/19/03 9:01:13 AM, nellebelle@... writes:

<< Any
advice on helping a 10yo kid with motion sickness tendencies better endure a
4 hour car ride? >>

OH! If she can't ride in the front because someone won't let her, let her
lie down in the back with a pillow and blanket and ride with her eyes closed.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 2/19/03 1:29:47 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<<
I hope this is an OK question to ask here. Here is the short question: Any
advice on helping a 10yo kid with motion sickness tendencies better endure a
4 hour car ride? >>

Take some Ginger capsules before the ride (about 20-30 minutes ahead) and
take one every couple of hours during the ride.
Stop frequently for short breaks.
And she shouldn't do anything that requires her to not look out the window a
lot.
Reading, video games etc...all contribute to motion sickness. Her equilibrium
will be less overwhelmed if she can look out the window a lot. Preferably in
the front seat.


Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."

----Frances Hodgson Burnett

[email protected]

In a message dated 2/19/2003 10:23:53 AM Central Standard Time,
todd@... writes:

> IMO there's
> nothing wrong with using the stairs anywhere. If you never have
> to encounter something is it a problem? I think forcing anyone to
> do anything that is that uneccessary is a mistake and could only
> cause more problems (but then I'm not a psychiatric nurse).
>
>

I agree. My youngest was afraid of clowns from the time he was old enough to
notice other people (less than 3 months old). We tried our best to avoid
them and now, of course, he can rationalize that fear away. He was also
afraid of loud noises, or at least made incredibly uncomfortable by them.
Like at concerts or the skating rink or parades or other places like that.
Still, he wanted to participate in things so we adapted. We bought him
industrial style hearing protection. He still doesn't like loud noises, but
he doesn't wear his earmuffs anymore or carry them in the car. If we turn on
the vacuum cleaner, he just adopts "the pose"--one hand on one ear and one
ear crammed against his shoulder so he can use his other hand to keep doing
what he's doing.

I can't imagine what my life would have been like and all I would have missed
if I had forced him to sit through a monster truck rally with no hearing
protection! I think adapting and responding to his very obvious need was the
quickest way for him to grow through that period and learn to weigh the
risks/benefits and rationalize his fears, which is how fears are overcome.

BTW, there are patches now for motionsickness, and my friend who cannot ride
in a car without being behind the wheel actually went on a cruise using those
and survived quite well. I think you get them with a prescription, but I'm
not sure.

Tuck


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Peggy

Just a thought, have you had her eyes checked? She might have a slight
astigmatism and if that is the case it could be related to the elevator
thing. The same movement at the edges of her eyes that might bother her
in cars might be the same movement that bothers her as the elevator moves.

I've heard of a couple of other yahoo lists being down for two or three
days. Maybe Homeland security is raking over yahoo looking for terrorist
activity. Or, could b yahoo is doing disc storage maintenance.

Peggy

Dana

Does this affect car sickness? I didn't know! I have always had both
astigmatism and car sickness, and didn't know they went along with each
other! I'm also the only person I know that 3-D stuff doesn't work for...
Dana
Montana Mama
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peggy" <durrell@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 2:55 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: car ride advice


> Just a thought, have you had her eyes checked? She might have a slight
> astigmatism and if that is the case it could be related to the elevator
> thing. The same movement at the edges of her eyes that might bother her
> in cars might be the same movement that bothers her as the elevator moves.
>
> I've heard of a couple of other yahoo lists being down for two or three
> days. Maybe Homeland security is raking over yahoo looking for terrorist
> activity. Or, could b yahoo is doing disc storage maintenance.
>
> Peggy
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

Shyrley

Dana wrote:

> Does this affect car sickness? I didn't know! I have always had both
> astigmatism and car sickness, and didn't know they went along with each
> other! I'm also the only person I know that 3-D stuff doesn't work for...
> Dana
> Montana Mama

Me too. I have slight astigmatism and can't see them 3 D pics :-( I also get car
sick although not as bad as I did as a child.

Shyrley

Todd Tyrtle

Hi Dana,
At Wednesday, 19 February 2003, you wrote:

>Does this affect car sickness? I didn't know! I have always had both
>astigmatism and car sickness, and didn't know they went along with each
>other! I'm also the only person I know that 3-D stuff doesn't work
for...
>Dana
>Montana Mama

Hmm...That could be part of it with Sage and I, too. I don't get
carsick, but neither of us can make the 3-D stuff (or those what-
do-you-call-ems that you stare at until something "appears") work.
And don't get me started on how poor our depth perception is.
One day when we still lived in the yurt we got a big snowfall and
wound up outside with a few friends having a snowball fight. The
two of us stood not five feet from each other and *still* missed
every time.

-Todd

Jon and Rue Kream

Strange question - are you the Todd whose child wanted to walk the
length of a river? ~Rue

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."


-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Tyrtle [mailto:todd@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 6:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: car ride advice

waptia <[email protected]>

That's what I've heard. Looking online there seems to be some links.

Peggy



--- In [email protected], "Dana" <hoffmanwilson@y...> wrote:
> Does this affect car sickness? I didn't know! I have always had both
> astigmatism and car sickness, and didn't know they went along with each
> other! I'm also the only person I know that 3-D stuff doesn't work
for...
> Dana
> Montana Mama
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peggy" <durrell@a...>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 2:55 PM
> Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: car ride advice
>
>
> > Just a thought, have you had her eyes checked? She might have a slight
> > astigmatism and if that is the case it could be related to the
elevator
> > thing. The same movement at the edges of her eyes that might
bother her
> > in cars might be the same movement that bothers her as the
elevator moves.
> >
> > I've heard of a couple of other yahoo lists being down for two or
three
> > days. Maybe Homeland security is raking over yahoo looking for
terrorist
> > activity. Or, could b yahoo is doing disc storage maintenance.
> >
> > Peggy
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > [email protected]
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >

Todd Tyrtle

Hi Rue,

On Wed, 19 Feb 2003, Jon and Rue Kream wrote:

> Strange question - are you the Todd whose child wanted to walk the
> length of a river? ~Rue

It would only be a strange question if the answer weren't yes. That
would be me. We still haven't started this project, having become
distracted by other things and ultimately ending up out here in
Albuquerque from last September through at least April or so if all goes
as it appears to be going.

Our son, meanwhile, has found other interests for the moment. Albuquerque
has several great museums, and for someone as interested as he is in
geology he couldn't be in a better place. We've climbed five volcanoes so
far and have a few more on our to-do list, not to mention countless past
(and future, I'm sure) trips to the natural history museum.

All that said, we're really looking forward to getting home to Missouri.
If all goes well it'll be a couple more months. If it goes really well
we'll have enough money for a few months off in Missouri. If not, we
could be temporarily relocating to NC, Florida, Ireland or somewhere
as-yet undetermined for another work junket.

I miss being the primary at-home parent a great deal. It's also really
isolating for me (less so for Sage who gets to go to homeschool groups and
the like) to be surrounded by *extremely* conventional people. You begin
to wonder if work really *is* the only thing worth talking about. Of
course I think the atmosphere would be even more uncomfortable at work if
I were to be really vocal about my opinions.

-Todd
getting way off topic for a bit

Jon and Rue Kream

Hi Todd - I always enjoyed our conversation on RUL, and wondered where
you had disappeared to. Now I know - Albuquerque :0).

The follow the river to the ocean idea really stuck with me. It sounds
like a wonderful thing to do (and write about).

I imagine that making the transition from home to work would be
difficult enough without the added problem of being surrounded by people
whose priorities are not anything like your own. I hope your plans to
move 'home' soon work out for you.

Anyway, it's nice to hear (again) from a caring, involved dad.
Sometimes it feels like my husband's the only one around. ~Rue

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."


-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Tyrtle [mailto:todd@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 9:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Todd?


It would only be a strange question if the answer weren't yes.

[email protected]

In a message dated 2/19/03 8:05:49 PM, todd@... writes:

<< for someone as interested as he is in
geology he couldn't be in a better place. We've climbed five volcanoes so
far and have a few more on our to-do list, not to mention countless past
(and future, I'm sure) trips to the natural history museum. >>

Have you already been to the Soda Dam in the Jemez?
It stinks, but it's cool. (The sulpher spring up on the road stinks like a
hundred rotten eggs.)

And if you go to Bandelier on that same drive, he can see all the tufa/pumice
cliffs on the way, around White Rock.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 2/19/03 8:47:19 PM, skreams@... writes:

<< The follow the river to the ocean idea really stuck with me. It sounds
like a wonderful thing to do (and write about). >>

My sister's family went to the source of the Rio Grande once as a family
outing. They didn't follow it to the ocean. <g>

There's a video we used to rent (should again) called The Cure. It's about
two little boys who set out to travel to New Orleans, from Minnesota, maybe
(I think it's purposefully vague), on the Mississippi. They have adventures.
I don't remember whether there's stuff some families would find offensive.
We didn't, but we're hard to offend.

Sandra

Todd Tyrtle

Hi Rue,

On Wed, 19 Feb 2003, Jon and Rue Kream wrote:

> Hi Todd - I always enjoyed our conversation on RUL, and wondered where
> you had disappeared to. Now I know - Albuquerque :0).

I enjoyed them as well.

> The follow the river to the ocean idea really stuck with me. It sounds
> like a wonderful thing to do (and write about).

I'm glad you reminded me of that, too. I'd almost forgotten about that
idea. And as Sandra reminded me, the Rio Grande is right here in town.
Of course that could be a bigger project than we want to get into.
Trekking through the desert along the second longest river in the country
might be a bit much for me. There's a nice photography display at the
Rio Grande nature center here in town, though, of photos that a woman took
as she walked the length several times (!) throughout her life. And
a fairly nice video of the river at the Aquarium here as well.

> I imagine that making the transition from home to work would be
> difficult enough without the added problem of being surrounded by people
> whose priorities are not anything like your own. I hope your plans to
> move 'home' soon work out for you.

I'm sure wherever we go there we'll be and we'll find happiness there.
I'm reasonably certain that we'll get to go home at least for a few weeks
before moving on, but as to how long that will be I'm not really sure. If
we're lucky we'll keep getting jobs in interesting locations as opposed
to the New York, Philadelphia, New Jersey area which is where a good
portion of my industry's work is.

> Anyway, it's nice to hear (again) from a caring, involved dad.
> Sometimes it feels like my husband's the only one around. ~Rue

Nope! There's a few of us around. I see them around town here rather a
lot, actually.

-Todd

Jon and Rue Kream

>>>> "Trekking through the desert along the second longest river in the
country might be a bit much for me."

Yes, somehow my visual was more trees and mountains than desert :0).

>>>>"Nope! There's a few of us around. I see them around town here
rather a lot, actually."

I know they're out there. We just seem to be having a shortage in our
neighborhood lately!

~Rue
"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."


-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Tyrtle [mailto:todd@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 8:40 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [AlwaysLearning] Todd?

Kate Green

I suffered badly as a child and still get wobbly sometimes now if I'm in
the back seat or have to look at a map or read anything so I can
sympathize. Try everything that has been suggested as different things work
for different people. It's nasty and I can completely understand why she
wouldn't want to travel to see grandma. In no way can this be thought of as
a phobia. It doesn't meet any of the criteria necessary listed in the DSM
(psychologist's "bible"). Throwing up or nausea is really nasty, scary, and
just plain understandable to avoid.
And yes there is a type of aversion therapy in which you are thrown in the
deep end so to speak with your fear. But this is never advised with
children and even with adults should only be done with someone highly
trained in this technique. Most children grow out of their childhood fears
(usually they cannot even be classified as phobias) and unless it starts to
interfere with normal life then nothing needs to be done.

Kate -- who is still one of those weirdo psychologists even though she
could be classified by many as brain dead:))


At 07:57 AM 2/19/03 -0800, you wrote:
> I sent this to unschooling@yahoogroups, but they still seem to be down
>and I
> really need some feedback.
>
>
>
> Here is the short question: Any
> advice on helping a 10yo kid with motion sickness tendencies better endure a
> We have tried Dramamine (sort of works, but puts her out
> and she HATES to take it); those bracelets that are worn on the wrist with
> pressure points (didn't work); leave as late in the day as possible
> (definitely helps); eating just the right amount beforehand and having
> Reading doesn't help,
> listening to stories on tape does.
>
> This same daughter
> Not much of a problem, as there aren't
> very many in our community, and the few that we do have are in short
> Dd told gramma (my
> (Dd learned that a fear of
> something is called a phobia, and so she did use the term to refer to her
> dislike of elevators, but has certainly never been to a psychologist for
> My mom, who has a background in psychiatric nursing,
> told me that I need to force her to go in elevators, because that is the
>"" Allowing her to avoid elevators
> "" of
> She avoided the freeway for years, until finally
> impossible without freeway
> She drives the freeway regularly now, though she still is
> I pointed out that when she finally wanted to bad
> enough, then she was able to do it.
>
> Tonight at dinner, dh asked if we want to go with him this weekend to visit
> Lisa had tears in her eyes and said she doesn't
> My recent conversation with my mom about the elevator
>"" came to mind, even though I thought my moms concerns were
> Lisa
> would like to see Gramma, but doesn't want to have to go in the car to see
> her.
>
> I'm willing to consider any thoughts that anyone is willing to share on this
> She doesn't always get sick, but I know that trips are stressful for
> "" carsick,
> even if you don't get sick, is NO FUN!
>
> Mary Ellen
>
>
>
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[email protected]

In a message dated 2/19/2003 9:46:29 PM Central Standard Time,
skreams@... writes:

> The follow the river to the ocean idea really stuck with me. It sounds
> like a wonderful thing to do (and write about).
>

I think that's a cool idea, too. One book I read was _River Horse_ by
William Least Heat Moon. It's about his trip by river (mostly in a boat)
across the continent, generally following Lews & Clark's route. He writes
lengthy books but I've enjoyed them, and that one ties in with this tendency
(maybe it's just a desire!) I have to "proceed as the way opens".

Tuck


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

> <<for someone as interested as he is in
> geology he couldn't be in a better place. We've climbed five volcanoes so
> far and have a few more on our to-do list, not to mention countless past
> (and future, I'm sure) trips to the natural history museum. >>
>

I've been working with a young man who is finishing up his degree in
geography. I asked him what he was going to do with it and he said, "I'm
going into GIS". He was surprised to hear me say "Oh? Geographic
Information Systems?" He thought that no one had ever heard of it, much less
a 41 yo motherly type working next to him at a grunt job. But he didn't know
that I used to work for a water utility and GIS was just beginning to make
it's impact on the utility industry before I left. GIS is a mapping system
of the Earth. Exactly what the name implies, but I had limited it to my
experience with utilities.

So we had a conversation about it and he told me that GIS encompasses more
than utility lines location now. I ask him how a degree in geography would
be relevant, wouldn't you want a degree in geology instead? But of course, I
was thinking of on- the-surface type geography, like cities and borders and
etc.

He said he'd always wanted to travel and has been interested in the weather
since as long as he could remember and this seemed to fit the bill. I asked
him how many times he'd changed his major and he said he had never changed
it, because he always has known what he wanted to do. (I admire that in
people.)

Anyway, Todd's son's interest in geology reminded me of this conversation.
Perhaps GIS would be of interest to him, too. Maybe he knows all about it
already. But I bet there's someone else here who never heard of it! :)

Tuck



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]