A yucky bit from the NYT
Deborah Lewis
I was just at Yahoo groups and it says there are 324 members on this
list. As Dylan would say, "Holy Buckets!"
But anyway...
January 30, 2003
Philadelphia Recruits and Trains Parents as Truant Officers
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
HILADELPHIA, Jan. 29 In an effort to corral thousands of class-cutting
students, the Philadelphia school district hired 250 truant officers late
last year.
Among its hiring criteria for the job, one element loomed most important:
the district specifically recruited parents.
"Parents know the terrain, know the environment, understand the culture
and may even know some of the individual parents and kids," said Paul
Vallas, chief executive of the 200,000-student school system.
Truancy is a big concern in Philadelphia. On any given day, more than
12,000 Philadelphia students, or 6.4 percent, are absent without an
excuse.
The problem worries school officials because truants are more likely to
use drugs, join gangs, commit crimes or drop out.
"Truancy is our first best flag that a kid will enter the juvenile
justice system," said Ken Seeley, who is studying the effectiveness of
seven truancy reduction programs for the Justice Department.
Mr. Vallas hired 600 parents for a similar program in Chicago, where he
headed the school system for six years. He said the program cut truancy
to 3.9 percent from 5.7 percent.
Philadelphia contracted with 12 community and religious organizations to
hire and train parent-truant officers. The training began last month; so
far, 166 parents have gone through the program and started visiting the
homes of truants. The officers are paid $9 an hour for at least 10 hours
a week.
"The primary role is to inform parents that their child has been truant,
that resources are available, that we are ready to help," said Vern
Trent, who heads the program.
While it is too soon to tell whether the $1.2 million program is working,
the officers had more than 1,600 contacts with parents through Dec. 31.
Some parents are unaware that their children are cutting class. Others
cannot afford clothes or bus tokens. Others are on drugs or alcohol.
Hastings Coach, who heads the parent-truant officer program for the
Women's Association for Women's Alternatives, a social services agency,
said officers were told to be supportive and understanding, not
threatening.
"Any time you're in someone's home, you're a guest and you have to
conduct yourself accordingly. You're not some authority with a stiff
hand. You want to be invited back," Mr. Coach said.
But officers also explain that chronic absenteeism could land both
students and their parents in the truancy court, with the possibility of
fines, community service and even jail for the adults and transfer to an
alternative school for the pupils.
That is smart, Mr. Seeley said, because any successful truancy-reduction
program needs to have both carrots and sticks. In Jacksonville, Fla., one
of the programs he is studying, more than 100 parents have been arrested
for failing to send their children to school.
Jennifer Jones, 42, whose children are 6, 16 and 19, said Philadelphia's
truancy program was a natural fit for her. Her house is a magnet for
neighborhood children; she has been known to break up fistfights; even
before she became a truant officer, she confronted truants and ordered
them to go back to school.
And because her own children are sometimes less than enthusiastic about
school, she understands how some parents have trouble making sure theirs
go to class.
"I think people feel more comfortable dealing with another parent," Ms.
Jones said. "Parents know what kids are capable of, how their minds
work."
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
list. As Dylan would say, "Holy Buckets!"
But anyway...
January 30, 2003
Philadelphia Recruits and Trains Parents as Truant Officers
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
HILADELPHIA, Jan. 29 In an effort to corral thousands of class-cutting
students, the Philadelphia school district hired 250 truant officers late
last year.
Among its hiring criteria for the job, one element loomed most important:
the district specifically recruited parents.
"Parents know the terrain, know the environment, understand the culture
and may even know some of the individual parents and kids," said Paul
Vallas, chief executive of the 200,000-student school system.
Truancy is a big concern in Philadelphia. On any given day, more than
12,000 Philadelphia students, or 6.4 percent, are absent without an
excuse.
The problem worries school officials because truants are more likely to
use drugs, join gangs, commit crimes or drop out.
"Truancy is our first best flag that a kid will enter the juvenile
justice system," said Ken Seeley, who is studying the effectiveness of
seven truancy reduction programs for the Justice Department.
Mr. Vallas hired 600 parents for a similar program in Chicago, where he
headed the school system for six years. He said the program cut truancy
to 3.9 percent from 5.7 percent.
Philadelphia contracted with 12 community and religious organizations to
hire and train parent-truant officers. The training began last month; so
far, 166 parents have gone through the program and started visiting the
homes of truants. The officers are paid $9 an hour for at least 10 hours
a week.
"The primary role is to inform parents that their child has been truant,
that resources are available, that we are ready to help," said Vern
Trent, who heads the program.
While it is too soon to tell whether the $1.2 million program is working,
the officers had more than 1,600 contacts with parents through Dec. 31.
Some parents are unaware that their children are cutting class. Others
cannot afford clothes or bus tokens. Others are on drugs or alcohol.
Hastings Coach, who heads the parent-truant officer program for the
Women's Association for Women's Alternatives, a social services agency,
said officers were told to be supportive and understanding, not
threatening.
"Any time you're in someone's home, you're a guest and you have to
conduct yourself accordingly. You're not some authority with a stiff
hand. You want to be invited back," Mr. Coach said.
But officers also explain that chronic absenteeism could land both
students and their parents in the truancy court, with the possibility of
fines, community service and even jail for the adults and transfer to an
alternative school for the pupils.
That is smart, Mr. Seeley said, because any successful truancy-reduction
program needs to have both carrots and sticks. In Jacksonville, Fla., one
of the programs he is studying, more than 100 parents have been arrested
for failing to send their children to school.
Jennifer Jones, 42, whose children are 6, 16 and 19, said Philadelphia's
truancy program was a natural fit for her. Her house is a magnet for
neighborhood children; she has been known to break up fistfights; even
before she became a truant officer, she confronted truants and ordered
them to go back to school.
And because her own children are sometimes less than enthusiastic about
school, she understands how some parents have trouble making sure theirs
go to class.
"I think people feel more comfortable dealing with another parent," Ms.
Jones said. "Parents know what kids are capable of, how their minds
work."
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/3/03 11:43:11 AM, ddzimlew@... writes:
<< I was just at Yahoo groups and it says there are 324 members on this
list. As Dylan would say, "Holy Buckets!" >>
A week ago I told Keith this group has 200 members. Then I happened by the
yahoogroups page looking for another grouop and saw it over 320 and was both
a little embarrassed and dopily pleased that I could have been so wrong.
Glad I wasn't watching it nervously, for sure. <g>
<<.While it is too soon to tell whether the $1.2 million program is
working,....
WOW.
Couldn't they just use that money to pay kids to come to class!? <g>
Maybe that's what the schools should do. Just like the army. Pay the damned
kids. Let them build up some post-graduation benefits. Give raises for
excellent attention spans (OR WHATEVER...)
Sandra
<< I was just at Yahoo groups and it says there are 324 members on this
list. As Dylan would say, "Holy Buckets!" >>
A week ago I told Keith this group has 200 members. Then I happened by the
yahoogroups page looking for another grouop and saw it over 320 and was both
a little embarrassed and dopily pleased that I could have been so wrong.
Glad I wasn't watching it nervously, for sure. <g>
<<.While it is too soon to tell whether the $1.2 million program is
working,....
WOW.
Couldn't they just use that money to pay kids to come to class!? <g>
Maybe that's what the schools should do. Just like the army. Pay the damned
kids. Let them build up some post-graduation benefits. Give raises for
excellent attention spans (OR WHATEVER...)
Sandra
Deborah Lewis
On Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:12:09 EST SandraDodd@... writes:
<<.While it is too soon to tell whether the $1.2 million program is
working,....
***WOW.
Couldn't they just use that money to pay kids to come to class!? <g>***
That's a GREAT idea!
You'd get so much by just showing up and being minimally cooperative and
decent to the other kids and teachers. You'd get more if your level of
participation was more.
They could make it better and give free tickets to rock concerts to kids
who go all the time.
That way, if a kid did pick up some useful information there it'd be a
bonus, but at the very least they'd have some money and entertainment.
Of course the little deviants would just spend it on drugs and create
false identities to get a second pay check and scalp the tickets for
astronomical amounts of money. Those kids could get the special
entrepreneurial award and be emancipated!
Deb L
<<.While it is too soon to tell whether the $1.2 million program is
working,....
***WOW.
Couldn't they just use that money to pay kids to come to class!? <g>***
That's a GREAT idea!
You'd get so much by just showing up and being minimally cooperative and
decent to the other kids and teachers. You'd get more if your level of
participation was more.
They could make it better and give free tickets to rock concerts to kids
who go all the time.
That way, if a kid did pick up some useful information there it'd be a
bonus, but at the very least they'd have some money and entertainment.
Of course the little deviants would just spend it on drugs and create
false identities to get a second pay check and scalp the tickets for
astronomical amounts of money. Those kids could get the special
entrepreneurial award and be emancipated!
Deb L
Betsy
**Philadelphia Recruits and Trains Parents as Truant Officers
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
PHILADELPHIA, Jan. 29 In an effort to corral thousands of class-cutting
students, the Philadelphia school district hired 250 truant officers late
last year.
Among its hiring criteria for the job, one element loomed most important:
the district specifically recruited parents.
"Parents know the terrain, know the environment, understand the culture
and may even know some of the individual parents and kids," said Paul
Vallas, chief executive of the 200,000-student school system.
Truancy is a big concern in Philadelphia. On any given day, more than
12,000 Philadelphia students, or 6.4 percent, are absent without an
excuse.**
That reminds me, there was a piece on the radio about truancy in S.
Calif. (Ventura?). The spokesperson for the schools suggested pouring
ice water on sleeping kids/teens that didn't want to get up.
I was not impressed that my tax dollars pay for this level of "brilliance".
Betsy
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
PHILADELPHIA, Jan. 29 In an effort to corral thousands of class-cutting
students, the Philadelphia school district hired 250 truant officers late
last year.
Among its hiring criteria for the job, one element loomed most important:
the district specifically recruited parents.
"Parents know the terrain, know the environment, understand the culture
and may even know some of the individual parents and kids," said Paul
Vallas, chief executive of the 200,000-student school system.
Truancy is a big concern in Philadelphia. On any given day, more than
12,000 Philadelphia students, or 6.4 percent, are absent without an
excuse.**
That reminds me, there was a piece on the radio about truancy in S.
Calif. (Ventura?). The spokesperson for the schools suggested pouring
ice water on sleeping kids/teens that didn't want to get up.
I was not impressed that my tax dollars pay for this level of "brilliance".
Betsy
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/3/03 12:28:29 PM, ecsamhill@... writes:
<<
That reminds me, there was a piece on the radio about truancy in S.
Calif. (Ventura?). The spokesperson for the schools suggested pouring
ice water on sleeping kids/teens that didn't want to get up. >>
Maybe there should be a plan for pouring ice water on any administrator with
an idea that dumb.
And icewater for the radio announcer who would allow it on the air.
More evidence of the "us and them" mentality some adults have toward kids.
If they knew I had suggested pouring ice water on an adult they would be
stunned, or assume the suggestion had come from a kid.
Sandra
<<
That reminds me, there was a piece on the radio about truancy in S.
Calif. (Ventura?). The spokesperson for the schools suggested pouring
ice water on sleeping kids/teens that didn't want to get up. >>
Maybe there should be a plan for pouring ice water on any administrator with
an idea that dumb.
And icewater for the radio announcer who would allow it on the air.
More evidence of the "us and them" mentality some adults have toward kids.
If they knew I had suggested pouring ice water on an adult they would be
stunned, or assume the suggestion had come from a kid.
Sandra
Pam Hartley
I'm beginning to think it's "most", not "some".
Somebody tell me I'm wrong about that, quick.
Pam
----------
Somebody tell me I'm wrong about that, quick.
Pam
----------
>From: SandraDodd@...
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] A yucky bit from the NYT
>Date: Mon, Feb 3, 2003, 11:42 AM
>
> More evidence of the "us and them" mentality some adults have toward kids.
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/3/03 3:12:50 PM, pamhartley@... writes:
<< I'm beginning to think it's "most", not "some". >>
"Beginning" to think that?
I think it's VASTLY most.
Holly's watching Saqua (sp?) in the other room. The kitten wanted to watch
the fireflies. The dad explaining that Dongua (sp?) was too little to stay
up. The show involved the simple "fact" that some things cannot happen until
you're older. That seeing the fireflies is really wonderful, but it's not
for kittens.
He gets to see them but only after a day of hard labor and ridicule, having
to clean up after kittens to prove he's "a cat," and other us/them nonsense.
I was telling Holly to turn it off because it was about mean parents. She
was laughing and saying she wanted to see the firefly part because it was
cool. I said the parents should just let him stay up. She said "I know."
So it goes, even on programs designed for peaceful well-loved kids by adults
who work in children's programming for PBS.
Sandra
Sandra
<< I'm beginning to think it's "most", not "some". >>
"Beginning" to think that?
I think it's VASTLY most.
Holly's watching Saqua (sp?) in the other room. The kitten wanted to watch
the fireflies. The dad explaining that Dongua (sp?) was too little to stay
up. The show involved the simple "fact" that some things cannot happen until
you're older. That seeing the fireflies is really wonderful, but it's not
for kittens.
He gets to see them but only after a day of hard labor and ridicule, having
to clean up after kittens to prove he's "a cat," and other us/them nonsense.
I was telling Holly to turn it off because it was about mean parents. She
was laughing and saying she wanted to see the firefly part because it was
cool. I said the parents should just let him stay up. She said "I know."
So it goes, even on programs designed for peaceful well-loved kids by adults
who work in children's programming for PBS.
Sandra
Sandra
Pam Hartley
This was not the sort of comfort I was hoping for. <g>
Pam, where'd I mis-place that damn dream-world I've been living in?
----------
Pam, where'd I mis-place that damn dream-world I've been living in?
----------
>From: SandraDodd@...
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] A yucky bit from the NYT
>Date: Mon, Feb 3, 2003, 2:36 PM
>
> << I'm beginning to think it's "most", not "some". >>
>
> "Beginning" to think that?
>
> I think it's VASTLY most.
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/3/2003 5:12:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,
pamhartley@... writes:
Does that make you feel any better?
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pamhartley@... writes:
> I'm beginning to think it's "most", not "some".On THIS LIST, You're WRONG! I'd say it's even only "a few" newbies. <g>
>
> Somebody tell me I'm wrong about that, quick.
Does that make you feel any better?
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Hartley
I have been, for the first time ever and only for about 6 months now, a
member of a local unschooling group. You can't imagine how refreshing it is
to sit with these three other women and yammer on for hours. It's a lot like
this list. <g>
Pam
----------
member of a local unschooling group. You can't imagine how refreshing it is
to sit with these three other women and yammer on for hours. It's a lot like
this list. <g>
Pam
----------
>From: kbcdlovejo@...
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] A yucky bit from the NYT
>Date: Mon, Feb 3, 2003, 5:21 PM
>
> In a message dated 2/3/2003 5:12:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> pamhartley@... writes:
>> I'm beginning to think it's "most", not "some".
>>
>> Somebody tell me I'm wrong about that, quick.
>
> On THIS LIST, You're WRONG! I'd say it's even only "a few" newbies. <g>
>
> Does that make you feel any better?
Kelli Traaseth
Pam Hartley <pamhartley@...> wrote:
I have been, for the first time ever and only for about 6 months now, a
member of a local unschooling group.
And how many years have you been unschooling?
Oh boy, I think I have my work cut out for me in trying to get an unschooling group together in rural northern Minnesota! I think, ha, I know. <g>
Kelli
Pam Hartley <pamhartley@...> wrote:I have been, for the first time ever and only for about 6 months now, a
member of a local unschooling group. You can't imagine how refreshing it is
to sit with these three other women and yammer on for hours. It's a lot like
this list. <g>
Pam
----------
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Come forth into the light of things, let Nature be your teacher.
William Wordsworth
---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have been, for the first time ever and only for about 6 months now, a
member of a local unschooling group.
And how many years have you been unschooling?
Oh boy, I think I have my work cut out for me in trying to get an unschooling group together in rural northern Minnesota! I think, ha, I know. <g>
Kelli
Pam Hartley <pamhartley@...> wrote:I have been, for the first time ever and only for about 6 months now, a
member of a local unschooling group. You can't imagine how refreshing it is
to sit with these three other women and yammer on for hours. It's a lot like
this list. <g>
Pam
----------
>From: kbcdlovejo@...To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] A yucky bit from the NYT
>Date: Mon, Feb 3, 2003, 5:21 PM
>
> In a message dated 2/3/2003 5:12:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> pamhartley@... writes:
>> I'm beginning to think it's "most", not "some".
>>
>> Somebody tell me I'm wrong about that, quick.
>
> On THIS LIST, You're WRONG! I'd say it's even only "a few" newbies. <g>
>
> Does that make you feel any better?
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Come forth into the light of things, let Nature be your teacher.
William Wordsworth
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
coyote's corner
Hi,
I've come to the conclusion that most of this is socialization. Sadly, many
people that may not realize they are socializing the kids are, in reality,
doing just that.
The powers that be are raising consumers and victims, not thinkers!
When I put Brianna in public school, for grade 1, it was hell! She didn't
have the same 'values' the kids in class had. One of the girls told her that
she should have blonde highlights in her hair, that she would be "hot".
A boy told her she was too tall to be pretty,
She was told that I was a bad parent because I worked from home.
She was told that I was a lesbian because I have no husband.
She didn't dress right. They made fun of her.
She's not a Christian. They hit her.
Her lunch menu for the month was an advertisement for Frito-Lay.
Her teacher was out of work from the day before Thanksgiving until the
beginning of the last quarter. Many of those days, the class watched Disney
movies. Brianna came home one day and told me that a boy in class was
hitting everyone. When I asked about it, the substitute teacher said, "Boys
will be boys" When I said she would be defending herself. I was told, "Two
wrongs don't make a right"
When she passed in a paper on the Cherokee People, she wasn't graded. The
teacher said she hadn't done it. There was too much information and too many
Cherokee words. (My clan sister, her aunt, is Cherokee.)
It's all about making us little consumers and blindly obedient 'citizens'. I
am appalled at the 'victimization' of kids. The schools actually give them a
'victim' mind set.
Sorry if I got carried away!
Janis
BTW.don't even get me started about the Family Court system!! What I went
through to get Brianna in the first place!
Coyotes Corner
Very Cool Stuff for the World
<www.coyotescorner.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: SandraDodd@... [mailto:SandraDodd@...]
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 5:37 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] A yucky bit from the NYT
In a message dated 2/3/03 3:12:50 PM, pamhartley@... writes:
<< I'm beginning to think it's "most", not "some". >>
"Beginning" to think that?
I think it's VASTLY most.
Holly's watching Saqua (sp?) in the other room. The kitten wanted to watch
the fireflies. The dad explaining that Dongua (sp?) was too little to stay
up. The show involved the simple "fact" that some things cannot happen
until
you're older. That seeing the fireflies is really wonderful, but it's not
for kittens.
He gets to see them but only after a day of hard labor and ridicule, having
to clean up after kittens to prove he's "a cat," and other us/them nonsense.
I was telling Holly to turn it off because it was about mean parents. She
was laughing and saying she wanted to see the firefly part because it was
cool. I said the parents should just let him stay up. She said "I know."
So it goes, even on programs designed for peaceful well-loved kids by adults
who work in children's programming for PBS.
Sandra
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=237194.2927557.4274366.2848452/D=egroupweb/S=17055421
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ourceID=yahodd_73>
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[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I've come to the conclusion that most of this is socialization. Sadly, many
people that may not realize they are socializing the kids are, in reality,
doing just that.
The powers that be are raising consumers and victims, not thinkers!
When I put Brianna in public school, for grade 1, it was hell! She didn't
have the same 'values' the kids in class had. One of the girls told her that
she should have blonde highlights in her hair, that she would be "hot".
A boy told her she was too tall to be pretty,
She was told that I was a bad parent because I worked from home.
She was told that I was a lesbian because I have no husband.
She didn't dress right. They made fun of her.
She's not a Christian. They hit her.
Her lunch menu for the month was an advertisement for Frito-Lay.
Her teacher was out of work from the day before Thanksgiving until the
beginning of the last quarter. Many of those days, the class watched Disney
movies. Brianna came home one day and told me that a boy in class was
hitting everyone. When I asked about it, the substitute teacher said, "Boys
will be boys" When I said she would be defending herself. I was told, "Two
wrongs don't make a right"
When she passed in a paper on the Cherokee People, she wasn't graded. The
teacher said she hadn't done it. There was too much information and too many
Cherokee words. (My clan sister, her aunt, is Cherokee.)
It's all about making us little consumers and blindly obedient 'citizens'. I
am appalled at the 'victimization' of kids. The schools actually give them a
'victim' mind set.
Sorry if I got carried away!
Janis
BTW.don't even get me started about the Family Court system!! What I went
through to get Brianna in the first place!
Coyotes Corner
Very Cool Stuff for the World
<www.coyotescorner.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: SandraDodd@... [mailto:SandraDodd@...]
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 5:37 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] A yucky bit from the NYT
In a message dated 2/3/03 3:12:50 PM, pamhartley@... writes:
<< I'm beginning to think it's "most", not "some". >>
"Beginning" to think that?
I think it's VASTLY most.
Holly's watching Saqua (sp?) in the other room. The kitten wanted to watch
the fireflies. The dad explaining that Dongua (sp?) was too little to stay
up. The show involved the simple "fact" that some things cannot happen
until
you're older. That seeing the fireflies is really wonderful, but it's not
for kittens.
He gets to see them but only after a day of hard labor and ridicule, having
to clean up after kittens to prove he's "a cat," and other us/them nonsense.
I was telling Holly to turn it off because it was about mean parents. She
was laughing and saying she wanted to see the firefly part because it was
cool. I said the parents should just let him stay up. She said "I know."
So it goes, even on programs designed for peaceful well-loved kids by adults
who work in children's programming for PBS.
Sandra
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=237194.2927557.4274366.2848452/D=egroupweb/S=17055421
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ourceID=yahodd_73>
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/4/03 9:07:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,
janis@... writes:
homeschooling and they have such a "girls vs boys" attitude. My boys don't
even understand that concept. "why can't we all play together." Most of the
children have never been to ps. I find that refreshing. My boys aren't
picked on because of their long hair etc.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
janis@... writes:
> When I put Brianna in public school, for grade 1, it was hell! She didn'tWe have two boys in our play group what went to public school prior to
> have the same 'values' the kids in class had. One of the girls told her
> that
> she should have blonde highlights in her hair, that she would be "hot".
> A boy told her she was too tall to be pretty,
> She was told that I was a bad parent because I worked from home.
> She was told that I was a lesbian because I have no husband.
> She didn't dress right. They made fun of her.
> She's not a Christian. They hit her.
>
>
homeschooling and they have such a "girls vs boys" attitude. My boys don't
even understand that concept. "why can't we all play together." Most of the
children have never been to ps. I find that refreshing. My boys aren't
picked on because of their long hair etc.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Hartley
Well, keep in mind I'm really lazy sometimes. <g>
An unschooler fell into my lap, sort of (via a move from the east coast) and
she had already made two unschooling friends, so it was a ready-made
unschooling family. ;)
I have to say it's really nice to have face-to-face people I can talk to,
besides Wally, without censoring what I say.
Pam
----------
An unschooler fell into my lap, sort of (via a move from the east coast) and
she had already made two unschooling friends, so it was a ready-made
unschooling family. ;)
I have to say it's really nice to have face-to-face people I can talk to,
besides Wally, without censoring what I say.
Pam
----------
>From: Kelli Traaseth <kellitraas@...>
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] A yucky bit from the NYT
>Date: Tue, Feb 4, 2003, 5:19 AM
>
>
>
> Pam Hartley <pamhartley@...> wrote:
> I have been, for the first time ever and only for about 6 months now, a
> member of a local unschooling group.
>
>
>
> And how many years have you been unschooling?
>
> Oh boy, I think I have my work cut out for me in trying to get an
> unschooling group together in rural northern Minnesota! I think, ha,
> I know. <g>
>
> Kelli
>
>
> Pam Hartley <pamhartley@...> wrote:I have been, for the first
> time ever and only for about 6 months now, a
> member of a local unschooling group. You can't imagine how refreshing it is
> to sit with these three other women and yammer on for hours. It's a lot like
> this list. <g>
>
> Pam
>
> ----------
>>From: kbcdlovejo@...
>>To: [email protected]
>>Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] A yucky bit from the NYT
>>Date: Mon, Feb 3, 2003, 5:21 PM
>>
>
>> In a message dated 2/3/2003 5:12:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>> pamhartley@... writes:
>>> I'm beginning to think it's "most", not "some".
>>>
>>> Somebody tell me I'm wrong about that, quick.
>>
>> On THIS LIST, You're WRONG! I'd say it's even only "a few" newbies. <g>
>>
>> Does that make you feel any better?
>
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> Come forth into the light of things, let Nature be your teacher.
>
> William Wordsworth
>
>
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[email protected]
In a message dated 2/4/03 8:24:24 AM, genant2@... writes:
<< We have two boys in our play group what went to public school prior to
homeschooling and they have such a "girls vs boys" attitude. My boys don't
even understand that concept. "why can't we all play together." Most of the
children have never been to ps. I find that refreshing. My boys aren't
picked on because of their long hair etc. >>
There used to be a homeschooling group that met in our neighborhood. When
there was a statewide newsletter, years ago, they listed. So one day I took
Kirby and Marty, who were 5 and 2, I think, or a bit older.
We walked up and first a mom showed us where the big girls were playing, and
where the little girls were, and then where the bigger boys were and where
the little boys were. It wasn't "Play where you want to," even though it was
a public park.
Then I went to sit with the moms and was asked which curriculum I used, "Bob
Jones, or ABeka?"
Neither.
And there was a slightly perceptible but very real shoulder-shift among the
moms sitting there and I found myself not in the conversation and not in the
group.
That was okay, because I looked up and saw Marty looking NOT happy, so I went
and hung out with my boys. None of the moms were hanging out with their kids.
It's not just a school thing, unfortunately. It's a cultural thing. These
Christian homeschoolers were totally into dividing girls from boys, and into
age divisions. And into dividing adults from kids.
Sandra
<< We have two boys in our play group what went to public school prior to
homeschooling and they have such a "girls vs boys" attitude. My boys don't
even understand that concept. "why can't we all play together." Most of the
children have never been to ps. I find that refreshing. My boys aren't
picked on because of their long hair etc. >>
There used to be a homeschooling group that met in our neighborhood. When
there was a statewide newsletter, years ago, they listed. So one day I took
Kirby and Marty, who were 5 and 2, I think, or a bit older.
We walked up and first a mom showed us where the big girls were playing, and
where the little girls were, and then where the bigger boys were and where
the little boys were. It wasn't "Play where you want to," even though it was
a public park.
Then I went to sit with the moms and was asked which curriculum I used, "Bob
Jones, or ABeka?"
Neither.
And there was a slightly perceptible but very real shoulder-shift among the
moms sitting there and I found myself not in the conversation and not in the
group.
That was okay, because I looked up and saw Marty looking NOT happy, so I went
and hung out with my boys. None of the moms were hanging out with their kids.
It's not just a school thing, unfortunately. It's a cultural thing. These
Christian homeschoolers were totally into dividing girls from boys, and into
age divisions. And into dividing adults from kids.
Sandra
Pam Sorooshian
Today I was at a Destination Imagination event being held at a high
school.
There was a sign in one of the rooms that said that people who graduate
from high school make about $236,000 more in income in their lifetime
than those who drop out. So - they took that number and divided by 4
years of high school and said that meant that each year of high school
was worth $59,000. Then they divided that by 180 (number of school days
in a year) and said each day they went to school was worth $327.78.
Then they divided that by 6 (number of classes per day) and said each
class was worth $54.63.
Then they said: "Stay in school because where are you going to find a
job that pays $54.63/hour?"
But - using the same starting point -- $236,000 extra dollars of income
over, say, 50 years, is only $4720 per year. Divided by 250 working
days in a year that is only $18.88 per day. Dividing that by 8 (8 hours
per day of work) that is only $2.36 per hour.
So - starting with the EXACT same number and making the same kinds of
calculations, we show that spending years being tortured in school
results in an average gain of $2.36 per hour over a lifetime of
working? So - staying in school pays $2.36 per hour. What kind of
crummy job is that?
<BEG>
Too bad the kids don't think outside the box a little -- or they'd
learn some math while twisting the school's own propaganda against the
school itself.
--pam
school.
There was a sign in one of the rooms that said that people who graduate
from high school make about $236,000 more in income in their lifetime
than those who drop out. So - they took that number and divided by 4
years of high school and said that meant that each year of high school
was worth $59,000. Then they divided that by 180 (number of school days
in a year) and said each day they went to school was worth $327.78.
Then they divided that by 6 (number of classes per day) and said each
class was worth $54.63.
Then they said: "Stay in school because where are you going to find a
job that pays $54.63/hour?"
But - using the same starting point -- $236,000 extra dollars of income
over, say, 50 years, is only $4720 per year. Divided by 250 working
days in a year that is only $18.88 per day. Dividing that by 8 (8 hours
per day of work) that is only $2.36 per hour.
So - starting with the EXACT same number and making the same kinds of
calculations, we show that spending years being tortured in school
results in an average gain of $2.36 per hour over a lifetime of
working? So - staying in school pays $2.36 per hour. What kind of
crummy job is that?
<BEG>
Too bad the kids don't think outside the box a little -- or they'd
learn some math while twisting the school's own propaganda against the
school itself.
--pam
On Monday, February 3, 2003, at 11:12 AM, SandraDodd@... wrote:
> <<.While it is too soon to tell whether the $1.2 million program is
> working,....
>
> WOW.
> Couldn't they just use that money to pay kids to come to class!? <g>
Pam Sorooshian
The National Home Education Network
~The World is Our Classroom~
www.NHEN.org
Pam Sorooshian
My niece just got a letter from the governor - she now has $1,000
deposited in a bank account for her use for college -- based on her
high standardized test scores.
--pam
deposited in a bank account for her use for college -- based on her
high standardized test scores.
--pam
On Monday, February 3, 2003, at 11:25 AM, Deborah Lewis wrote:
> ***WOW.
> Couldn't they just use that money to pay kids to come to class!?
> <g>***
Pam Sorooshian
The National Home Education Network
~The World is Our Classroom~
www.NHEN.org
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/9/2003 12:09:22 AM Central Standard Time,
pamsoroosh@... writes:
I knew there was something wrong with that radio commercial!
Tuck
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pamsoroosh@... writes:
> So - starting with the EXACT same number and making the same kinds ofTHANKS, PAM!!!
> calculations, we show that spending years being tortured in school
> results in an average gain of $2.36 per hour over a lifetime of
> working? So - staying in school pays $2.36 per hour. What kind of
> crummy job is that?
>
I knew there was something wrong with that radio commercial!
Tuck
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