the jittery edge of change
[email protected]
I came in to sit in a safe(r) place. <g>
Last week was just wild. Three different online places, I was getting
jumped, by people who either knew nothing about unschooling (on the New
Mexico list) or people who were new to it and not getting it to work.
Rough.
And today, because of a private correspondence, I was going to look something
up about James Dobson's stuff. Yeek.
What I found was worse. It was someone going on about how Dobson doesn't go
far enough, that he's a total wimp and violator of the Bible.
So rather than stir a peaceful Christian neighborhood (there's a batch of new
participants at unschooling-dotcom who are Christian), I brought it here.
It seems it's useful for activists and volunteer-types in general to know
these bizarre things sometimes.
OH! But first, I wanted to say that if any of you have favorite
anti-spanking testimonials or want to write me something, I'm going to do an
anti-spanking webpage kind of like the video games page--links to donated
pages or other good sites, with enough information on the front page that
it's not JUST a list of links. Not so much that people will be overwhelmed
and go away.
And another thing (I'm not organized this moment): below is also something
from the same article about Mother Teresa. It seems really funny to me, but
then I remember the author was probably kinda frothing at the mouth just
thinking about it, and that unfortunately he's not an isolated nutcase.
So on to Spanking Teens:
(whole article is here:
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/dobson/general.htm )
+++++quote starts+++++
In the Q&A section of the book, one of the questions was "Should teenage
children be spanked for disobedience or rudeness?" Dr. James Dobson, the
self-proclaimed child-rearing expert, answered thusly:
"No. Teens desperately want to be thought of as adults and they deeply resent
being treated as children. Spanking is the ultimate insult at that age and
they are justified in hating it. Besides, it doesn't work."
On what authority should teens not be spanked? -- Dr. Dobson's? And do we
govern our lives by what teens "want" or by what the Bible teaches? If teens
resent being treated like children, then they shouldn't act like children.
And if spanking is the ultimate insult for a teenager, then this is evidence
it must work very effectively in deterring the rebellious actions that bring
the rod. And finally, by saying "it doesn't work," Dobson is calling God a
liar (cf. Prov. 22:15 -- Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the
rod of discipline will drive it far from him.)! God says spanking does work
(and He doesn't even give an age limit -- cf. Prov. 19:18 -- Discipline your
son, while there is hope; do not be a willing party to his death).
------------------------
(c) In the 11/89 issue of FOTF's Clubhouse magazine for children, a smiling
"Mother" Teresa was on the cover, and the lead article was entitled, "Teresa
of Calcutta: Little Woman with a Big Heart." The readers of this magazine
were made to think that Mother Teresa was a genuine New Testament Christian
and that she was doing a great work for God through her Sisters of Charities
mission. "Mother" Teresa was, in reality, a New Age pantheist who considered
Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, and other religions all to be acceptable ways to
God. This is a great deception. She also preached the false sacramental
gospel of Rome and had given multitudes of people a false comfort by
encouraging them to place their hopes in such vanities as the Roman Catholic
mass and the Roman Catholic Mary. It is an abomination before God for Dobson
to feature this woman in his magazine.
+++++quote ends+++++
Abomination.
He said "abomination."
What a sad life for him.
Sandra
Last week was just wild. Three different online places, I was getting
jumped, by people who either knew nothing about unschooling (on the New
Mexico list) or people who were new to it and not getting it to work.
Rough.
And today, because of a private correspondence, I was going to look something
up about James Dobson's stuff. Yeek.
What I found was worse. It was someone going on about how Dobson doesn't go
far enough, that he's a total wimp and violator of the Bible.
So rather than stir a peaceful Christian neighborhood (there's a batch of new
participants at unschooling-dotcom who are Christian), I brought it here.
It seems it's useful for activists and volunteer-types in general to know
these bizarre things sometimes.
OH! But first, I wanted to say that if any of you have favorite
anti-spanking testimonials or want to write me something, I'm going to do an
anti-spanking webpage kind of like the video games page--links to donated
pages or other good sites, with enough information on the front page that
it's not JUST a list of links. Not so much that people will be overwhelmed
and go away.
And another thing (I'm not organized this moment): below is also something
from the same article about Mother Teresa. It seems really funny to me, but
then I remember the author was probably kinda frothing at the mouth just
thinking about it, and that unfortunately he's not an isolated nutcase.
So on to Spanking Teens:
(whole article is here:
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/dobson/general.htm )
+++++quote starts+++++
In the Q&A section of the book, one of the questions was "Should teenage
children be spanked for disobedience or rudeness?" Dr. James Dobson, the
self-proclaimed child-rearing expert, answered thusly:
"No. Teens desperately want to be thought of as adults and they deeply resent
being treated as children. Spanking is the ultimate insult at that age and
they are justified in hating it. Besides, it doesn't work."
On what authority should teens not be spanked? -- Dr. Dobson's? And do we
govern our lives by what teens "want" or by what the Bible teaches? If teens
resent being treated like children, then they shouldn't act like children.
And if spanking is the ultimate insult for a teenager, then this is evidence
it must work very effectively in deterring the rebellious actions that bring
the rod. And finally, by saying "it doesn't work," Dobson is calling God a
liar (cf. Prov. 22:15 -- Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the
rod of discipline will drive it far from him.)! God says spanking does work
(and He doesn't even give an age limit -- cf. Prov. 19:18 -- Discipline your
son, while there is hope; do not be a willing party to his death).
------------------------
(c) In the 11/89 issue of FOTF's Clubhouse magazine for children, a smiling
"Mother" Teresa was on the cover, and the lead article was entitled, "Teresa
of Calcutta: Little Woman with a Big Heart." The readers of this magazine
were made to think that Mother Teresa was a genuine New Testament Christian
and that she was doing a great work for God through her Sisters of Charities
mission. "Mother" Teresa was, in reality, a New Age pantheist who considered
Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, and other religions all to be acceptable ways to
God. This is a great deception. She also preached the false sacramental
gospel of Rome and had given multitudes of people a false comfort by
encouraging them to place their hopes in such vanities as the Roman Catholic
mass and the Roman Catholic Mary. It is an abomination before God for Dobson
to feature this woman in his magazine.
+++++quote ends+++++
Abomination.
He said "abomination."
What a sad life for him.
Sandra
Nancy Wooton
on 2/1/03 2:44 PM, SandraDodd@... at SandraDodd@... wrote:
death? (with real rocks, of course)
God's table.
Nancy
> On what authority should teens not be spanked? -- Dr. Dobson's? And do weI thought the bible says disobedient kids are supposed to be stoned to
> govern our lives by what teens "want" or by what the Bible teaches?
death? (with real rocks, of course)
> She also preached the false sacramental+++++quote ends+++++
> gospel of Rome and had given multitudes of people a false comfort by
> encouraging them to place their hopes in such vanities as the Roman Catholic
> mass and the Roman Catholic Mary. It is an abomination before God for Dobson
> to feature this woman in his magazine.
> Abomination.Well, Mother Theresa is probably praying for him from her prominent place at
> He said "abomination."
> What a sad life for him.
God's table.
Nancy
Pam Hartley
----------
glad you're doing it and I'll be happy to have somewhere to refer people.
I never know what to think about self-pleasuring foaming scary zealots, of
any stripe. On the one hand, as you said, it's almost amusing. I mean, how
many people can really sustain that kind of hatred for Mother Theresa??!! On
the other, because there are More Of These People Out There, it's not
amusing at all.
Pam
>From: SandraDodd@...I don't think I have anything useful to add to your spanking page, but I'm
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [AlwaysLearning] the jittery edge of change
>Date: Sat, Feb 1, 2003, 2:44 PM
>
> What I found was worse. It was someone going on about how Dobson doesn't go
> far enough, that he's a total wimp and violator of the Bible.
glad you're doing it and I'll be happy to have somewhere to refer people.
I never know what to think about self-pleasuring foaming scary zealots, of
any stripe. On the one hand, as you said, it's almost amusing. I mean, how
many people can really sustain that kind of hatred for Mother Theresa??!! On
the other, because there are More Of These People Out There, it's not
amusing at all.
Pam
[email protected]
On Sat, 1 Feb 2003 17:44:39 EST SandraDodd@... writes:
nospanking.org, but googling his name and spanking should do it. It's the
definiive anti-spanking page, IMO...
Dar
> OH! But first, I wanted to say that if any of you have favoriteHave you found Randy Cox's page? I think it's something like
> anti-spanking testimonials or want to write me something, I'm going
> to do an
> anti-spanking webpage kind of like the video games page--links to
> donated
> pages or other good sites, with enough information on the front page
> that
> it's not JUST a list of links. Not so much that people will be
> overwhelmed
> and go away.
nospanking.org, but googling his name and spanking should do it. It's the
definiive anti-spanking page, IMO...
Dar
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/2/03 1:22:56 PM, freeform@... writes:
<< Have you found Randy Cox's page? I think it's something like
nospanking.org, but googling his name and spanking should do it. It's the
definiive anti-spanking page, IMO... >>
Maybe I don't need to do one!!
(I was thinking of it being tied into unschooling, but seriously--maybe we
just need to send people there when it comes up next time!)
Sandra
<< Have you found Randy Cox's page? I think it's something like
nospanking.org, but googling his name and spanking should do it. It's the
definiive anti-spanking page, IMO... >>
Maybe I don't need to do one!!
(I was thinking of it being tied into unschooling, but seriously--maybe we
just need to send people there when it comes up next time!)
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/2/03 1:22:56 PM, freeform@... writes:
<< Have you found Randy Cox's page? I think it's something like
nospanking.org, but googling his name and spanking should do it. It's the
definiive anti-spanking page, IMO... >>
I looked, but the tone and scope of it was too rough for me.
I just want to help unschoolers move toward being at peace with their kids
without having them listen to a recording of someone being spanked. I have
those sounds in my head already. Yuck. Too rough for me, that website.
Sandra
<< Have you found Randy Cox's page? I think it's something like
nospanking.org, but googling his name and spanking should do it. It's the
definiive anti-spanking page, IMO... >>
I looked, but the tone and scope of it was too rough for me.
I just want to help unschoolers move toward being at peace with their kids
without having them listen to a recording of someone being spanked. I have
those sounds in my head already. Yuck. Too rough for me, that website.
Sandra
[email protected]
On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 15:41:21 EST SandraDodd@... writes:
guess...
I remember when I was looking at anti-spanking sites a years ago (during
misc.kids spanking wars) there was this definite subset of pages for and
by men who got their rocks off by spanking kids (or fantasizing about
it). Sometimes they'd seem legit in the beginning (well, as legit as
pro-spanking sites can be) and I'd be reading, and it would just get
sicker and sicker.
I imagine those guys have all downloaded that recording and jack off to
it every night :-/
Dar
> I just want to help unschoolers move toward being at peace withIs that really on the page? Wow. I haven't been there in a while, I
> their kids
> without having them listen to a recording of someone being spanked.
> I have
> those sounds in my head already. Yuck. Too rough for me, that
> website.
guess...
I remember when I was looking at anti-spanking sites a years ago (during
misc.kids spanking wars) there was this definite subset of pages for and
by men who got their rocks off by spanking kids (or fantasizing about
it). Sometimes they'd seem legit in the beginning (well, as legit as
pro-spanking sites can be) and I'd be reading, and it would just get
sicker and sicker.
I imagine those guys have all downloaded that recording and jack off to
it every night :-/
Dar
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/2/03 2:22:24 PM, freeform@... writes:
<< Is that really on the page? Wow. I haven't been there in a while, I
guess... >>
It's an option.
I opted not to click it.
<<I imagine those guys have all downloaded that recording and jack off to
it every night :-/>>
Maybe.
And there is a LOT of porn having to do with spanking and control. I wonder
how much of it is rooted in childhood abuse? (I don't want to study Freud's
followers to find out, just kind of idly wonder if in a culture without any
spankings or "discipline" whether there could ever possibly arise a bondage
and discipline subculture.)
There was a guy who used to come to the AOL chats sometimes. Same guy but he
would change his screenname. And he would ask about whether we spanked or
not and if anyone did, could they write to him on the side. Or he would come
in and say he had a daughter who wasn't being good and he wanted to spank her
but what did we think.
People who hadn't seen him before would always very patiently try to reason
with him. But he wanted to jack off.
A couple or three years back, I heard he was calling homeschoolers from phone
booths or something, saying he was taking a poll or something. Anyone
remember him?
Sandra
<< Is that really on the page? Wow. I haven't been there in a while, I
guess... >>
It's an option.
I opted not to click it.
<<I imagine those guys have all downloaded that recording and jack off to
it every night :-/>>
Maybe.
And there is a LOT of porn having to do with spanking and control. I wonder
how much of it is rooted in childhood abuse? (I don't want to study Freud's
followers to find out, just kind of idly wonder if in a culture without any
spankings or "discipline" whether there could ever possibly arise a bondage
and discipline subculture.)
There was a guy who used to come to the AOL chats sometimes. Same guy but he
would change his screenname. And he would ask about whether we spanked or
not and if anyone did, could they write to him on the side. Or he would come
in and say he had a daughter who wasn't being good and he wanted to spank her
but what did we think.
People who hadn't seen him before would always very patiently try to reason
with him. But he wanted to jack off.
A couple or three years back, I heard he was calling homeschoolers from phone
booths or something, saying he was taking a poll or something. Anyone
remember him?
Sandra
Tia Leschke
> A couple or three years back, I heard he was calling homeschoolers fromphone
> booths or something, saying he was taking a poll or something. AnyoneYeah, I read about that. He was calling people in Canada as well.
> remember him?
Tia