nellebelle

We were adopted by a neighbor's cat a couple of years ago. Took Cougar to the vet yesterday for a check-up. Turns out he has severe gingivitis. Based on his age (3 or 4 years), the vet thinks the condition of his gums indicates something else going on, likely feline leukemia. She prescribed antibiotic for the immediate inflamation, and would like to anesthetize him to do a complete dental cleaning and exam. She also wants to do the blood test for leukemia. All this would amount to at least $500. I told her I really can't afford that, but we would discuss her suggestions as a family and decide what to do.

I did some research on-line this am. According to what I've read, if the cat does have FeLV, then we need to do what we can so that he doesn't infect other cats. Also, it is clear that his mouth bothers him. I would like to do what I can to alleviate the pain, but everything I read indicates that extracting teeth is about the only thing that can be done. I have thought of asking the vet if she will accept small monthly payments over the next year. Any ideas?

Mary Ellen


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Joylyn

I'm sorry you are facing this. I would ask the vet about payments and
options.

Joylyn

nellebelle wrote:

> We were adopted by a neighbor's cat a couple of years ago. Took
> Cougar to the vet yesterday for a check-up. Turns out he has severe
> gingivitis. Based on his age (3 or 4 years), the vet thinks the
> condition of his gums indicates something else going on, likely feline
> leukemia. She prescribed antibiotic for the immediate inflamation,
> and would like to anesthetize him to do a complete dental cleaning and
> exam. She also wants to do the blood test for leukemia. All this
> would amount to at least $500. I told her I really can't afford that,
> but we would discuss her suggestions as a family and decide what to do.
>
> I did some research on-line this am. According to what I've read, if
> the cat does have FeLV, then we need to do what we can so that he
> doesn't infect other cats. Also, it is clear that his mouth bothers
> him. I would like to do what I can to alleviate the pain, but
> everything I read indicates that extracting teeth is about the only
> thing that can be done. I have thought of asking the vet if she will
> accept small monthly payments over the next year. Any ideas?
>
> Mary Ellen
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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zenrubyangel <[email protected]>

I'm no vet, but I thought that feline lukemia was not only
contagious, but also fatal...I once knew a cat that had it , Mewles,
and he had a most awful ending to what had been a very happy life. I
hope that your kitty is not infected with such an awful thing. But I
would definitely wait on the teeth pulling, until you find out for
sure whether or not the Feline lukemia is an issue. I wish you the
best...-



-- In [email protected], Joylyn <joylyn@e...> wrote:
> I'm sorry you are facing this. I would ask the vet about payments
and
> options.
>
> Joylyn
>
> nellebelle wrote:
>
> > We were adopted by a neighbor's cat a couple of years ago. Took
> > Cougar to the vet yesterday for a check-up. Turns out he has
severe
> > gingivitis. Based on his age (3 or 4 years), the vet thinks the
> > condition of his gums indicates something else going on, likely
feline
> > leukemia. She prescribed antibiotic for the immediate
inflamation,
> > and would like to anesthetize him to do a complete dental
cleaning and
> > exam. She also wants to do the blood test for leukemia. All
this
> > would amount to at least $500. I told her I really can't afford
that,
> > but we would discuss her suggestions as a family and decide what
to do.
> >
> > I did some research on-line this am. According to what I've
read, if
> > the cat does have FeLV, then we need to do what we can so that he
> > doesn't infect other cats. Also, it is clear that his mouth
bothers
> > him. I would like to do what I can to alleviate the pain, but
> > everything I read indicates that extracting teeth is about the
only
> > thing that can be done. I have thought of asking the vet if she
will
> > accept small monthly payments over the next year. Any ideas?
> >
> > Mary Ellen
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> > HGTV Dream Home Giveaway
> >
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=241773.2861422.4212389.1925585/D=egroupweb/S=17
05542111:HM/A=1394045/R=0/*http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv/pac_ctnt/text/0,,H
GTV_3936_5802,FF.html>
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > [email protected]
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service
> > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/17/03 2:55:58 PM, angiehewerdine@... writes:

<< I'm no vet, but I thought that feline lukemia was not only
contagious, but also fatal...I once knew a cat that had it >>

We had two male cats just die kind of listless deaths from it, years ago.
All the cats in our neighborhood who fought (all the males) got it kind of at
once.

I wouldn't put money into it if you find out it's lukemia. Just keep the cat
comfortable, get soft food for it, pet it, and let it live a while.

Antibiotics for infection might not be a bad idea, though.

Sandra

Janet Hamlin

Get the leukemia test first; actually get the combo test that tests for
leukemia and feline immunodeficiency virus. If they are negative, then
proceed. Sometimes these cats will respond to medication, and tooth
extraction is the last treatment option. It is okay to proceed step by step
if $$ is a concern.

Janet

Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema

You also might want to check out the Humane society or local veterinarian
school to see if they have a less expensive option, especially as this is
rather a bit of a rescue/stray situation.
Good luck!
Heidi

Deborah Lewis

Several years ago we adopted a stray cat who turned out to be fe leuk
positive.
When we found him he had been injured and that was when we did the blood
test. Since all my other cats at the time were vaccinated, we decided
to see what we could do for him. He recovered from his initial
injuries (broken shoulder, fractured skull) and was a really nice cat.
We named him Kirby because he sucked up every morsel of food he could
find. He did have problems with his teeth, but after a cleaning and
exam it turned out that only one needed to be pulled. Once or twice he
went on antibiotics for his mouth, and that worked fine. We had him
four years and he had a happy and good life, if too short. He staked
out his area near the heater and wouldn't budge. He never once asked to
go outside, apparently having had his fill of cold, miserable weather.
He was sweet and happy and we still miss him.

I live in a pretty rural area so that price you mentioned for teeth
cleaning and a fe leuk test seems wildly high.
Is that for a complete blood work up or just a fe leuk test? Do you
live where you might travel to a more countrified place and find some
nice old country vet who doesn't have to charge high tech prices?

You might find, after the infection is cleared up that it's only one or
two teeth bad enough to be extracted. That'd be worth it, if he could
have some quality of life for however long he has.

We had an old cat who needed a lot of vet attention ( at a higher tech
clinic where they treated renal failure ) and they let me make payments
on it.

I hope it's not fe leuk. I'm sorry if it is. Poor little critter.

Deb L

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/20/03 9:42:21 AM, jefhdvm@... writes:

<< The overhead to run
a veterinary clinic is quite high, as is the cost of a great staff. >>

Higher downtown than out in the country, often.

<< It's not fair to expect the vets to subsidize
low cost care to the strays and ferals. Pet overpopulation and strays is a
COMMUNITY problem, not a veterinary problem.>>

True, and there's the pound (in some communities, not all).

But it is also true that a farm vet might be willing to look at a cat with
less formality and expense than a downtown doctor with a fancy building.

We wanted our male cat checked for a bladder infection. They wanted to keep
him overnight at great expense, to collect urine on their schedule. I asked
if they could just assume infection and give me antibiotics. NO, that
wouldn't be good medical practice.

Small-town vets (in my northern-New-Mexico experience) don't have uniformed
staff or fancy plants or walls of literature, they have a building out back
of their house.

I don't see the suggestion as having been an insult to the veterinary trade,
nor the idea that someone who charges less isn't as competent as being a fair
one.

<< You get what you pay for. >>

And here is all this absolutely free unschooling advice.
You COULD pay someone $60 an hour for phone consult, but it wouldn't be as
good as what you could get online with a couple of mailing lists and
unschooling.com by reading for the same amount of time, or leaving a question
and getting free answers.

I'm serious about the phone consults. More people are charging to advise
homeschoolers by phone.

Old adages don't always apply.

Sandra

Janet Hamlin

>>Do you
live where you might travel to a more countrified place and find some
nice old country vet who doesn't have to charge high tech prices?<<

As the old adage goes, good veterinary care isn't cheap, and cheap
veterinary care isn't good. You get what you pay for. The overhead to run
a veterinary clinic is quite high, as is the cost of a great staff. Humane
societies are subsidized by private donations; most other vet hospitals are
privately owned businesses. It's not fair to expect the vets to subsidize
low cost care to the strays and ferals. Pet overpopulation and strays is a
COMMUNITY problem, not a veterinary problem.

Off my soapbox.....

Janet
http://jefhdvm.pledgepage.org
Changing lives......one mile at a time.

Deborah Lewis

On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 11:55:27 -0500 "Janet Hamlin"
<jefhdvm@...> writes:
***As the old adage goes, good veterinary care isn't cheap, and cheap
veterinary care isn't good. ***

We are fortunate in our little community to have two vets in practice
together who are really amazing.
One has been a vet for fifty years, and has literally seen everything.
Even the modern, well trained vet at the high tech vet clinic forty miles
away calls old Doc. Bissonnette for advice. Folks around here trust his
advice more than their physician's. <g> With good reason. He's a
brilliant, caring man and a wealth of knowledge.

***Humane
societies are subsidized by private donations; most other vet hospitals
are
privately owned businesses. It's not fair to expect the vets to
subsidize
low cost care to the strays and ferals. Pet overpopulation and strays is
a
COMMUNITY problem, not a veterinary problem.***

True, but here we have vets who are part of the community and twice a
year they organize a spay and neuter clinic for stray and feral cats and
low income pet owners. In the fall our old countrified inexpensive vets
spayed 122 cats for the community of Deer Lodge, at a reduced rate for
those who couldn't pay the full price and free for the captured feral
cats brought in by the local animal shelter. They notch their ears so
folks can tell which cats have been spayed and in the spring volunteers
will get together again to round up feral cats (without notches) and get
them spayed and neutered. Our vets were the voices at the city council
meeting where the fate of feral cats was being decided and spoke their
unwillingness to kill a couple hundred cats a year just because they are
an inconvenience. These old guys have been a huge part of the solution
of a community problem.

I'm in great admiration for vets of all varieties and it's true, these
old guys wouldn't have the equipment to do kidney transplants or
chemotherapy, but for what they can do, and certainly teeth cleaning,
extraction, blood tests, etc, fall into that category, they're quite
remarkable and cheap.

This clinic is where Dylan got to help X-ray a bird and learned to wrap
broken wings and got to see how stitches are placed and where he gets
free disgusting posters about anthrax and tapeworms. They show him
interesting X-ray and talk to him about interesting patients and let him
walk some of them and answer his questions. Doc Bissonnette called
Dylan one afternoon and invited him out to see a herd of antelope that
had wandered close to his place and he always tells us where he spotted a
rattlesnake.

Cheap veterinary care can be astoundingly good!

Deb L

Janet Hamlin

<<<< The overhead to run a veterinary clinic is quite high, as is the cost
of a great staff. >>
Higher downtown than out in the country, often.>>

Maybe the rent, but the drugs, supplies, & equipment are the same. And
often the solo doc will pay more because they aren't buying in bulk (lots of
companies will throw in cheaper or free product with bulk purchases, but if
it goes out of date because the smaller clinic can't use it all up, it's not
a bargain). So I pay more for my vaccines, meds, test kits, etc. And lab
fees are more as well.

<<But it is also true that a farm vet might be willing to look at a cat with
less formality and expense than a downtown doctor with a fancy building.>>

Might is the operative word here. Even the country vets also have bills to
pay. Farm vets on large animal calls charge by the head, as they treat the
herd as a whole in lots of cases. Much different than a small animal
practice, where the individual animal gets a complete exam.

<<We wanted our male cat checked for a bladder infection. They wanted to
keep him overnight at great expense, to collect urine on their schedule. I
asked
if they could just assume infection and give me antibiotics. NO, that
wouldn't be good medical practice.>>

And rightly so. Most cats with cystitis are sterile, and antibiotics won't
really help (not to mention contribute to antibacterial resistance). A
urine sample at minimum is needed to check urine pH, check for the presence
of crystals, cells, blood, etc. before determining which course of treatment
is necessary. Bladder stones need to be ruled out as well (not to mention a
ton of other things. We once had a kidney worm; very rare, but there.) A
cat I saw recently had intersticial cystitis, which cleared up on the meds,
then a few weeks later started again with symptoms. A repeat urinalysis now
showed a high pH and crystals, necessitating a completely different course
of treatment. So, a recurrence is not necessarily the same as before,
either, even in the same cat!

<<Small-town vets (in my northern-New-Mexico experience) don't have
uniformed staff or fancy plants or walls of literature, they have a building
out back of their house. >>

Lots of small town vets in Connecticut and Massachusetts don't either,
including me. My practice was in my basement, but that didn't negate the
bills, and I wasn't cheaper than the other clinic in town, even when I had
no staff. When a thing as simple as a scale costs $750 and a cage $1000,
that's a lot of money. My practice is now in a small strip mall that's in
need of a paint job, but the location is good and the rent is cheap. Still
can't charge less. And I have worked in country practices in Texas and
Tennessee, too.

<<I don't see the suggestion as having been an insult to the veterinary
trade, nor the idea that someone who charges less isn't as competent as
being a fair one.>>

I take that back. One of the worst vets I worked for was also one of the
most expensive. He was a great charlatan and the clients bought it hook,
line, & sinker.

In general, those practices that practice good medicine will cost more. It
costs more to keep updated equipment, attend conferences to keep up with
advances, have a decent and well-trained staff that also attend continuing
ed conferences (turnover is high as the pay is notoriously low), and newer
and safer drugs cost more.

Take the cat spay. Why does is cost so much? How much is too much? If you
actually factor in the real costs, including equipment use and maintenance,
staff time, drug costs, surgery suite, IV caths, fluids, pain meds, heart
monitors, etc., the cost is well over $300. But I know of no vets that
charge that much. In fact, if the spay costs less than $100 I can almost
guarantee that there is little or no pain meds used (butorphanol, the drug
most commonly used, if any, lasts a whopping 30 minutes and is not redosed),
no catheter or fluids (maintains hydration and blood pressure, as anesthesia
causes profound hypotension), minimal monitoring. I have seen many lower
cost places (yes, I have worked in them) use no cap/mask/gown for a spay,
which is major abdominal surgery. I have seen more than one cat spayed with
the same instruments and not sterilized in between.

Many times I have seen cases from Old Doc So&So who does the cheap work when
they come to me because the pet still has the problem. The cat with
diarrhea actually had pancreatic insufficiency, not worms. The dog with bad
breath didn't have dirty teeth (the cleaning didn't help) he had a severe
periodontal infection requiring long term antibiotics. The wart that was
really a mast cell tumor. Establishing a diagnosis before treatment can be
critical. I have seen it time and time again, as have most vets.

I understand that not everyone can afford to do everything. But I am a firm
believer that the BEST option should be presented to the owner and that the
owner should decide if they want to pursue that option. The lesser options
are also available, but sometimes are not the best route to go, but if one
understands that symptomatic treatment may not work, then fine.

<<And here is all this absolutely free unschooling advice.
You COULD pay someone $60 an hour for phone consult, but it wouldn't be as
good as what you could get online with a couple of mailing lists and
unschooling.com by reading for the same amount of time, or leaving a
question and getting free answers.
I'm serious about the phone consults. More people are charging to advise
homeschoolers by phone.>>

And most veterinarians give free phone advice as well. There are pet care
forums staffed by vets also, for free.

<<Old adages don't always apply.>>

True. But lots of times there is a nugget of truth in there somewhere.

Janet

nellebelle

We took the cat back for a recheck. The vet said it looked like the antibiotics helped, but she could still see some inflamation. Her only option for payment plans is 3-months no interest, then 22% on the remaining balance.

As far as the tests for FeLV and FIV, she didn't act as if it is so urgent, now that she knows I can't pay to have it done right now. The only symptom my cat is showing is gingivitis, otherwise he seems healthy. She said cats can have the virus yet not actually become ill for years.

Thanks to all who sent me ideas on this.

Mary Ellen


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