[email protected]

Hi,

I'm having a little issue with a neighbor. For 4 years now our neighbor's
throw a party for her daughter. This year she will turn 10. Both my daughters
8 and 3 and son 6 all play with this girl. I've picked her up from school, we
swap baby sitting at times. For the past few years these birthday parties have
been "girl" parties, so naturally Riley was left out. He throws major fits
about this, says all kinds of rude things, which are kinda true, and basically
I have a long bad day trying to help him cope with being left out. The party
is tommorrow. Again my oldest has been invited. Now my 3 too is chimming in I
want to go too. So I called and asked if it was a family party where all of
us can come celebrate Cassie's B-day. I was told it is just for the older
ones. 3 other friends from the block are invited, as well as 2 other boys my
son plays great with, one the party girls 7 year old cousin.So it's not a
girls only party this year. I have such a hard time with arbitrary age cut
off. Now this year Riley 6 can not go because he is not old enough. The party
is right across the street. Many aunts, uncles, other important grown-ups will
be there. Two things I'm asking about. How to comfort my kids when faced with
being left out? And how to politely let my friend know that inviting 1 of my
kids is torture and it's either all of us or none of us. I have played her
game now 3 times and I'm fed up with her excuses. Riley will remember not
being invited and flip out again and again in June in September. He is
passionate. So I left the phone with my neighbor saying no I don't think we
want all the kids over, but I'll ask Cassie, it's her party. Do I even wait to
be included or simply say thank you for listening, I think we all will go to
the beach tommorow.

Mary H.

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/7/02 12:03:17 AM, maryfhickman@... writes:

<< Two things I'm asking about. How to comfort my kids when faced with
being left out? >>

Take them somewhere--a movie, Christmas shopping, somewhere else.

<<And how to politely let my friend know that inviting 1 of my
kids is torture and it's either all of us or none of us. I have played her
game now 3 times and I'm fed up with her excuses. >>

It's not a game, it's real.
The reality is they have the right to invite who they want to.
Will you deprive your older daughter over a principle which isn't yours to
own?

I'm not saying life doesn't suck. I'm just saying we can't keep it from
sucking, nor can we make other people think our thoughts.

We can easily make it suck worse by our responses to the situations, though.

<<I think we all will go to
the beach tommorow. >>

Well one was invited to a party.

Sandra

Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema

I'd ask if my oldest could come over a little early as I am taking the rest
of the family out to a movie and then to the beach/museum/hot dog
diner/other kid-magnet-place. 10 to one odds that your oldest child will
want to come too. (grin)

I have a similar situation where the mother and I are friends, the kids all
play together, but my son is typically invited to only one of her
children's parties, not the other even though he typically invites both of
her kids to his parties. It's not a big deal for him because he knows the
other friend usually has a limit to the number of people he can invite. I
suppose it's harder when you're only 6.

Heidi

Fetteroll

on 12/7/02 2:02 AM, maryfhickman@... at maryfhickman@... wrote:

> And how to politely let my friend know that inviting 1 of my
> kids is torture and it's either all of us or none of us. I have played her
> game now 3 times and I'm fed up with her excuses.

What if you daughter wanted to invite 5 particular kids to her birthday
party. What if the moms of those 5 kids called up and said the siblings of
the invited ones were putting up a fuss because they hadn't been invited.
And the moms wanted you and your daughter to invite the siblings because
they'd have a miserable day if they couldn't come too. Wouldn't it stop
being a special day for your daughter and start being a throw a party for
everyone who would feel left out if they weren't invited? Wouldn't you feel
that it was the parents problem to figure out how to help the kids handle
the disappointment of not being invited and not your problem?

It's not a game she's playing. She's protecting her daughter's right to have
the birthday she plans. She's protecting her own right to not have more kids
than she feels she can handle.

It seems like a natural opportunity to learn that our happiness depends on
how we choose to deal with things, not on what the world chooses to do to
us.

When the world hands you lemons ...

Joyce

Stephanie Elms

> It's not a game she's playing. She's protecting her
> daughter's right to have
> the birthday she plans. She's protecting her own right to not
> have more kids
> than she feels she can handle.

I have to agree here...we just went through this, but from the other side. My soon
to be 6 year old decided that he wanted an all boy party this year. He has two girl
friends that he has known for ages and I felt like we had to invite them...I posted
on the unschooling.com list and got a bit better perspective. I realized that it
really was Jason's party and that he should not be made to invite anyone that he
did not want to.

We decided that we would see if the girls wanted to get together one on one with
my son, go for ice cream or something. I have talked to one mom who completely
understood....her daughter is probably having a princess party this year and so
we may not be invited either. :o)

And as far as younger siblings...that is a hard one too...we are having Jason's
party at the gym where he takes gymnastics...they have told me that it is ok
for me to have his almost 3 yo brother come, but asked that no other younger
siblings be included because it would make it harder on the instructors (younger
children require much more supervision on the gym equipment...I will be supervising
my youngest).

I would just explain to my kids not to take it personally, that the party is planned
for older kids. I would let my oldest go (if she wants to) and plan something fun for
the younger kids. Maybe your younger two would like to invite the birthday girl
over for some ice cream to wish her a happy birthday?

It helped me to remember that a birthday party should be for and about the child and
that they should be allowed to invite who they want, not who their parent's feel they
should...

Just my 2 cents...

Stephanie E.

Stephanie Elms

Oh, I forgot to mention...my son wanting an all boy party has no reflection on
him liking or not liking his girl friends. He still likes them and considers them
friends. He just want boys at his birthday party and he still enjoys playing with
his girl friends....

Stephanie E.

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/8/02 5:44:45 AM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< What words would you give these little ones to tell them,
yes it's sad.People suck, but we still need to respect them. >>

People don't suck just because they choose who to invite to their party.
I think your attitude is going to have a LOT to do with how your kids react
to this situation. It doesn't have to be the end of the world. All that
negative energy expended on this could be focused on something positive.

Ren
"The answers aren't important really...
What's important, is knowing all the questions."
-Zilpha Keatley Snyder
Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com

[email protected]

I've been thinking about this for a couple of days, even though by now I
know the point is moot. I wonder, though - say you and your husband got
together regularly with two other couples and went out to dinner, or to
the theater, or whatever you like... and that one of the other people in
the group decided to have a party and invite her partner, the other
couple, and your partner - but not you. And everyone talked about the
planned party at other times, when you were all together, and they knew
you wanted to come, and the reasoning was something like: "Well, everyone
else is in their forties and you're only thirty-nine". I think that would
really, really suck.

I was talking to Rain about it, too, and she wondered about Ashley's take
on it. She said that in most families she knows, the siblings fight with
each other a lot but get very protective of each other if someone else is
hurting one of them.

Dar

[email protected]

Thanks everyone,

I'm still working out my own feelings on this one. Do I have a friend or just
a friendly neighbor? I have a sister-in-law who leaves people out constantly.
Do these people know how much sadness occurs on the other end. I know not
everyone can go to every party. I do not complain when someone invites one
child to something. This situation is different. The party was physically
across the street. All the kids on the block talked about it for over a wek.
Each time the party was brought up my passionate son screams how unfair it is
that every else gets to go but him. He screams how much he hates the mom and
the girl. He plans how to hurt them back. Well when I have my party...4 years
now this has happened. I have expressed to my neighbor how hurt Riley feels.
She has seen him cry. Last year she promised Riley(then 4) something, forgot,
then gave him 2 pixie sticks. He cried cuz all the party people had 3. She
told him to say thank you, stop crying and be thankful for getting something
at all. Some people do not feel for kids. Isn't that what makes us different
than main stream. We know kids are people too. We respect them. When they hurt
we listen. So I was reflecting Sandra. She origainally said yup, some people
do suck, I took this to mean, some people are cold, unfeeling people who can
hurt others with their actions.

Thank you Dar, I too had a similar idea. To put the situation in perspective.
To invite a portion of a family based on age or interest. Well, I need to go.
I'm sure my neighbor and I will talk again, but I'm not sure how much I'm
going to give to the friendship anymore. Too many times someone in my family
comes home with hurt feelings from their house.

Nancy Wooton

on 12/9/02 11:57 AM, maryfhickman@... at maryfhickman@... wrote:

> She has seen him cry. Last year she promised Riley(then 4) something, forgot,
> then gave him 2 pixie sticks. He cried cuz all the party people had 3. She
> told him to say thank you, stop crying and be thankful for getting something
> at all. Some people do not feel for kids.

Tell me again why you want your son in the clutches of this monster, even
for the few hours of a party? I'd been thinking that perhaps it was one of
her regular *guests,* a bitchy grandmother or something, who had insisted
she shouldn't invite Riley, but I've changed my mind.

> I'm sure my neighbor and I will talk again, but I'm not sure how much I'm
> going to give to the friendship anymore. Too many times someone in my family
> comes home with hurt feelings from their house.

I think it's high time you cut her off.

Nancy, in the Christmas Spirit :-PpPpPp

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/9/02 12:59:10 PM, maryfhickman@... writes:

<< Do I have a friend or just
a friendly neighbor? >>

Either way, that doesn't mean she'll like every child in your family equally.

Holly has a friend who's a girl with both an older and younger brother.
Holly LOVES the younger brother but is very uncomfortable around the older
one. Twice she has wanted to invite the girl and little brother to a party,
but only invited the girl because she couldn't figure out how to invite one
brother without the other.

Marty and Kirby had an only-child friend whose mom would let either Kirby or
Marty come over, but never both. She said she couldn't handle the noise of
three.

Sandra

[email protected]

Hi,

It has been very nice to write out my thoughts and receive thoughtful
responses to my party problem. Now, I'm working on the idea that Riley needs a
bit of help handling his dissapointments. If he was not so bugged by the
situation, I would not be. He has shed gallons of tears about this party
situation over the past 4 years. He hurts, will always have a scar. Tim
believes he should stay away because he does get his feelings hurt somehow. He
is high energy.

This year I asked if all the family was invited, meaning I would come too. It
was a dance party. Riley is a dancing guy. He would have been fine from my
perspective and I was not asking to drop my kiddoes off. I too wanted to
celebrate and be with my older child, but...opted to stay home with my younger
2 and hubby, as we clearly were not wanted. We do feel this family doesn't
like Riley. They think we should spank him into line and not let him cry. He's
loud. This family had only 1 child until last year. They now have 3, blessed
with twin daughters.

So back to my dilemna. When Riley doesn't get what he wants, like going to the
party, his intensity about the situation is unbelievable. The yelling,
screaming, swearing, pounding of fists. For example, yesterday at a group
activity we were going to play a version of go fish. It's a unit study group
who are raising Salmon. We were going to match lifecycle with habitat. Riley
did not like this idea. I suggested he go play while we played the game and
said I would play the way he wanted to after. He did not like this. He likes
his way first always. He punched me in the stomach 2 times. So again, he
didn't get his way so he lashed out. He then did go sit outside, alone, cooled
off, and came in to watch. I thanked him for taking himself outside and told
him in private my stomach hurt and I do not like to be punched. He said sorry.

Any ideas about intense reactions to dissapointments?

Mary H.

Betsy

**Any ideas about intense reactions to dissapointments?

**

Have you seen the book Raising Your Spirited Child by Mary S. Kur*****.
(I can't recall the spelling.) ?

Betsy

PS My mother STILL wrings her hands and looks miserable when we talk
about my little brother at 4, but at 40 he is very calm and in control
of his emotions. (More so than me!)

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/10/02 10:05:01 AM, maryfhickman@... writes:

<< He has shed gallons of tears about this party
situation over the past 4 years. He hurts, will always have a scar. >>

How old is he?

[I have expressed to my neighbor how hurt Riley feels.
She has seen him cry. Last year she promised Riley(then 4) something, forgot,
then gave him 2 pixie sticks. He cried cuz all the party people had 3. ]

He's five. He's sarred for live from something that happened when he was two?
Only if he has been reminded of it pretty constantly since then.

This just came in the mail:

-=- One of my favorite stories
recently is about a Native American grandfather talking to his young
grandson. He tells the boy he has two wolves inside of him
struggling with each other. The first is the wolf of peace, love and
kindness. The other wolf is fear, greed and hatred. "Which wolf will
win, grandfather?" asks the young boy.

-=- "Whichever one I feed," is the reply.-=-


(That's from something I'll send separately.)

When someone's not liking my kids, sometimes I've told them, "I bet he'll
like you when you're older" (or when he's older, or when you're both older)
and it has come true so many times that they believe me.

If you go with and toward what IS possible instead of dwelling on what is not
possible, the negativity is being fed, and watered, and enshrined. If he's
as upset after four years as you say he is, I think maybe someone's been
counting and reviewing the situation.

If he's difficult for YOU to handle when he's disappointed, and if he has
ever kicked you in the stomach, then the neighbor absolutely wasn't playing a
game not to invite him.

Is he still small enough that you can carry him around? When I've had kids
losing it, I "hipped" them and carried them around with me. If they wanted
down after they were calm, they could go, but if they seemed a danger to
others, I just casually plunked them back in the hip-carry. From there you
can whisper advice and reminders, and you can point out potential good
situations for them to try to slip back into, and give them last minute ideas
on making it work out.

-=-Any ideas about intense reactions to dissapointments?-=-

How much is he like you in that area?

If you're grown and are having a hard time with it, maybe figure out how you
handle it, and pass those tricks on to him.

Sandra

[email protected]

<< Some people do not feel for kids. Isn't that what makes us different
than main stream. We know kids are people too. We respect them. When they hurt
we listen. So I was reflecting Sandra. She origainally said yup, some people
do suck, I took this to mean, some people are cold, unfeeling people who can
hurt others with their actions. >>

When people suck, though, it's better to turn and look at the things that
DON"T suck instead of dwelling with the vista of suckitude and badmouthing
them.

It shows kids more respect to distract them and provide them positive
situations than to discuss at length how their lives would have been better
if some other person hadn't been "cold and unfeeling."

That's kind of cold and unfeeling.

Sandra

Fetteroll

on 12/10/02 12:03 PM, maryfhickman@... at maryfhickman@... wrote:

> We do feel this family doesn't
> like Riley.

How does Riley behave at their house? From what you describe of his behavior
towards you it sounds like it's possible there may have been some
uncomfortable incidents at their house that she hasn't told you about. Her
inability to meet your eyes when you asked about Riley coming to the party
may not have been because she recognized she was being rude but because she
felt caught between being assumed to be rude by excluding him and coming
across as ... a tattletale? complainer? ... for telling you the things
Riley has done at her house.

I'd probably feel very uncomfortable with even a high energy boy in the
hosue. Our is set up to accomodate a relatively quiet girl. There are things
perched in places, tiny clay figures displayed at low levels. A wrestling
match or an indoor ball game would cause a fair amount of chaos.

Joyce

Pam Sorooshian

>>Any ideas about intense reactions to dissapointments?
<<

Greene, R.W. (2001). The explosive child: A New Approach for Understanding
and helping easily frustrated, "chronically inflexible" children (2nd ed.).
New York: HarperCollins.

Shure, M. (1994). Raising a thinking child. New York: Pocket/Simon & Schuster.

Both of those were very very useful to me - not that I take every
suggestion they give, but just as a really useful idea source.

--pam


Pam Sorooshian
National Home Education Network
www.NHEN.org
Changing the Way the World Sees Homeschooling

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kate Green

> I'd probably feel very uncomfortable with even a high energy boy in the
> hosue. Our is set up to accomodate a relatively quiet girl. There are things
> perched in places, tiny clay figures displayed at low levels. A wrestling
> match or an indoor ball game would cause a fair amount of chaos.
>
> Joyce
>

LOL even a mother of high energy boys can occasionally find it a "little"
stressful.
Today I had to call a friend and go have a long lunch in an outdoor cafe
just to stop myself taking a kitchen knife and stabbing 2 soccer balls and
a big birthing ball. Living in an apartment in a city with 3 boys who love
to kick balls around usually doesn't bother me but today I was almost in
tears at the level of stress it seemed to enact within me. Of course it
could be related to the fact I'm 2 days past my due date and so huge and
waddling with the next future wrestler and football player:)

But it can be tricky to take your kids to someone's house (or public area)
who doesn't have the same kind of set-up. I think it's my responsibility
though to discuss this with my kids beforehand and then to set limits on
their behavior once there. If the place is not a wrestling or running
environment then it is my duty as their parent to help them to restrain
themselves. It's a matter of explaining consequences and setting firm
boundaries. Plus if I see they are not capable of this then I need to
remove us from the situation.

Kate



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[email protected]

Hi,

Interesting converation in my car last night. We had just finished a book club
meeting and Ashley spoke about a boy who invited everyone in her class except
her to his party. Riley, Cassie( the party girl who did not extend an invite
to Riley last week)Riley and Kelly(a kid from the block) were all in the car.
I asked Ashley how she felt about this. She talked for a bit about how she
felt left out, wondered why this boy did not invite her...Then Kelly chimed in
that someone in her class did the same and how stupid it is to leave someone
out. Riley started to agree with the girls, said half of Cassie's name, then
bit his lip and said nothing. Cassie was in the car. Wow, he had tact like I
have never seen. I listened only, added nothing to the conversation and was
very proud of Riley for not attacking Cassie, though I had wondered how she
would answer if he had put her on the spot and pointed out his most recent
being left out.

Mary H.