Re: [AlwaysLearning] late talking children
[email protected]
Does anyone have experience when it comes to late talking children (3 years
+) I have a 3 year old son who doesn't really talk ( he says a few words
like me, no way, cup) but mainly hands you something like a cup to indicate
he wants you to get him something to drink or pulls on leg to get you to get
up and follow him. He also doesn't play with other children just beside them
or may ignore them all together. He is very agile. And he can ignore you
unlike any child I've ever been around. But I believe his hearing is good.
He is also the baby of four children.
I get this sick feeling that he has autistic tendencies. The idea of
taking him to the pediatrician makes me exhausted. He resists anything like
that. So I can't imagine them trying to diagnose him while he is screaming.
He doesn't usually like other people. Well, he doesn't dislike them but just
doesn't want him messing with him. Not the most social kid in the world.
The bottom line is that I don't want him labeled. I want to help if it is
one of those things that has a certain "window of opportunity", I don't want
to miss. But what if he is just who he is and is just very immature. How do
I know the difference? He is very different from his siblings.
There is so much early intervention that I believe is unnecesary. It's a
big business. Do I sound like a worried mom or what? Anybody ever felt
like this?
I guess the thing to do is take him to the pediatrician, screaming and all.
If he is diagnosed as autistic, I get another diagnosis and then move from
there. I hate all this! I'm so afraid.
Joy
+) I have a 3 year old son who doesn't really talk ( he says a few words
like me, no way, cup) but mainly hands you something like a cup to indicate
he wants you to get him something to drink or pulls on leg to get you to get
up and follow him. He also doesn't play with other children just beside them
or may ignore them all together. He is very agile. And he can ignore you
unlike any child I've ever been around. But I believe his hearing is good.
He is also the baby of four children.
I get this sick feeling that he has autistic tendencies. The idea of
taking him to the pediatrician makes me exhausted. He resists anything like
that. So I can't imagine them trying to diagnose him while he is screaming.
He doesn't usually like other people. Well, he doesn't dislike them but just
doesn't want him messing with him. Not the most social kid in the world.
The bottom line is that I don't want him labeled. I want to help if it is
one of those things that has a certain "window of opportunity", I don't want
to miss. But what if he is just who he is and is just very immature. How do
I know the difference? He is very different from his siblings.
There is so much early intervention that I believe is unnecesary. It's a
big business. Do I sound like a worried mom or what? Anybody ever felt
like this?
I guess the thing to do is take him to the pediatrician, screaming and all.
If he is diagnosed as autistic, I get another diagnosis and then move from
there. I hate all this! I'm so afraid.
Joy
Shyrley
On 15 Nov 02, at 11:38, GSmith8995@... wrote:
developmental paediatrician with all my worries about autism. I had
just finished explaining to the woman that he never spoke, never
looked at anyone when he got up, said 'Hello lady, I like trains.'
After I picked my jaw up she smiled and said sometimes the
youngest doesn't really need to say anything with all the others
entertaining him.
She was very nice but a more pushy paed could have got it all
horribly wrong. She sat down on the floor with him and chatted with
me about toys, and wildlife. All sorts of things. She also played
with the toys herself. The same way that toddlers often play
alongside each other without acknowledging the others presence.
Sometimes I wonder whether a private paediatrician who is being
paid by the patient might have been more pro-active in finding
something wrong with R. Free medicine certainly cuts back on
that. But I'm terrible cynical about doctors here.
As irony would have it, it is my middle child who is autistic. He has
never been formally diagnosed as there didn't seem any point.
time with him?
It would probably really upset him if you took him and might make
him feel that you were not on his side.
My youngest is very self sufficent. He plays with his brother but
doesn't really need friends. He's happy if we *do* see people but
just as happy to stay home for weeks on end without seeing
anyone but family.
If you want, I can describe how I got through to my child who is
autistic.
more we take our children to 'experts' the more money they get.
Doctors would be bankrupt if everyone was 'well'!
He sounds like an introvert to me. He communicates when he
needs too but is probably watching and listening.
power and decisions for yourself. What do your friends say? Have
you watched your child just 'being'. How does he behave? How
does he interact with his siblings?
"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."
> Does anyone have experience when it comes to late talking children (3My youngest did the same. So one day I took him to a
> years +) I have a 3 year old son who doesn't really talk ( he says a
> few words like me, no way, cup) but mainly hands you something like a
> cup to indicate he wants you to get him something to drink or pulls on
> leg to get you to get up and follow him. He also doesn't play with
> other children just beside them or may ignore them all together. He
> is very agile. And he can ignore you unlike any child I've ever been
> around. But I believe his hearing is good. He is also the baby of
> four children.
developmental paediatrician with all my worries about autism. I had
just finished explaining to the woman that he never spoke, never
looked at anyone when he got up, said 'Hello lady, I like trains.'
After I picked my jaw up she smiled and said sometimes the
youngest doesn't really need to say anything with all the others
entertaining him.
She was very nice but a more pushy paed could have got it all
horribly wrong. She sat down on the floor with him and chatted with
me about toys, and wildlife. All sorts of things. She also played
with the toys herself. The same way that toddlers often play
alongside each other without acknowledging the others presence.
Sometimes I wonder whether a private paediatrician who is being
paid by the patient might have been more pro-active in finding
something wrong with R. Free medicine certainly cuts back on
that. But I'm terrible cynical about doctors here.
As irony would have it, it is my middle child who is autistic. He has
never been formally diagnosed as there didn't seem any point.
> I get this sick feeling that he has autistic tendencies. The ideaLet him be for another year is my advice. Do you get any 'alone'
> of
> taking him to the pediatrician makes me exhausted. He resists
> anything like that. So I can't imagine them trying to diagnose him
> while he is screaming. He doesn't usually like other people. Well,
> he doesn't dislike them but just doesn't want him messing with him.
> Not the most social kid in the world.
time with him?
It would probably really upset him if you took him and might make
him feel that you were not on his side.
My youngest is very self sufficent. He plays with his brother but
doesn't really need friends. He's happy if we *do* see people but
just as happy to stay home for weeks on end without seeing
anyone but family.
>I don't think there is any 'window'. Thats just my opinion though.
> The bottom line is that I don't want him labeled. I want to help if
> it is
> one of those things that has a certain "window of opportunity", I
> don't want to miss. But what if he is just who he is and is just very
> immature. How do I know the difference? He is very different from
> his siblings.
If you want, I can describe how I got through to my child who is
autistic.
>I certainly did. The early intervention here is all about money. The
> There is so much early intervention that I believe is unnecesary.
> It's a
> big business. Do I sound like a worried mom or what? Anybody ever
> felt like this?
more we take our children to 'experts' the more money they get.
Doctors would be bankrupt if everyone was 'well'!
He sounds like an introvert to me. He communicates when he
needs too but is probably watching and listening.
>You could take him to the paediatrician 'just to see' but keep the
> I guess the thing to do is take him to the pediatrician, screaming
> and all.
> If he is diagnosed as autistic, I get another diagnosis and then move
> from
> there. I hate all this! I'm so afraid.
power and decisions for yourself. What do your friends say? Have
you watched your child just 'being'. How does he behave? How
does he interact with his siblings?
>Shyrley
> Joy
>
"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/15/02 9:42:20 AM, GSmith8995@... writes:
<< I guess the thing to do is take him to the pediatrician, screaming and
all.
If he is diagnosed as autistic, I get another diagnosis and then move from
there. I hate all this! I'm so afraid. >>
I wouldn't do that.
Liam McClure was a very late talker, and he still doesn't talk much, but he's
18 and you'd never ever know he talked very little as a toddler
"pre-schooler" (he didn't go to school, but if he had, he would've gone
hardly talking), and didn't read until he was fifteen or so.
I've known him since he was two. He was just that way. Had he been
"labelled" it would have been "severely developmentally delayed." Well...
with unschooling it doesn't much matter.
Sandra
<< I guess the thing to do is take him to the pediatrician, screaming and
all.
If he is diagnosed as autistic, I get another diagnosis and then move from
there. I hate all this! I'm so afraid. >>
I wouldn't do that.
Liam McClure was a very late talker, and he still doesn't talk much, but he's
18 and you'd never ever know he talked very little as a toddler
"pre-schooler" (he didn't go to school, but if he had, he would've gone
hardly talking), and didn't read until he was fifteen or so.
I've known him since he was two. He was just that way. Had he been
"labelled" it would have been "severely developmentally delayed." Well...
with unschooling it doesn't much matter.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/15/02 9:54:28 AM, shyrley.williams@... writes:
<< After I picked my jaw up she smiled and said sometimes the
youngest doesn't really need to say anything with all the others
entertaining him. >>
Holly was incomprehensible to me when she first started talking, but Marty
could understand her clearly, and sweetly served as her interpreter. So as
long as Marty was there, Holly only needed to talk to Marty.
Shyrley wrote: "Let him be for another year is my advice. Do you get any
'alone'
time with him?"
I agree. Maybe go to some natural place, for a leisurely hike, where you
don't have to stay right together and don't have to talk if you don't want
to, and see what he shows you. And it might not be with words, but if he
comes to get you to show you things and wants to hear more about what he's
seen (or not), you'll be able to get a calmer, better grasp of his
communications skills, maybe.
Sandra
<< After I picked my jaw up she smiled and said sometimes the
youngest doesn't really need to say anything with all the others
entertaining him. >>
Holly was incomprehensible to me when she first started talking, but Marty
could understand her clearly, and sweetly served as her interpreter. So as
long as Marty was there, Holly only needed to talk to Marty.
Shyrley wrote: "Let him be for another year is my advice. Do you get any
'alone'
time with him?"
I agree. Maybe go to some natural place, for a leisurely hike, where you
don't have to stay right together and don't have to talk if you don't want
to, and see what he shows you. And it might not be with words, but if he
comes to get you to show you things and wants to hear more about what he's
seen (or not), you'll be able to get a calmer, better grasp of his
communications skills, maybe.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/15/02 11:54:44 AM EST, shyrley.williams@...
writes:
<< I can describe how I got through to my child who is
autistic. >>
Yes, I would like that very much. Thanks so much for sharing your
experience. I feel better already.
Joy:)
writes:
<< I can describe how I got through to my child who is
autistic. >>
Yes, I would like that very much. Thanks so much for sharing your
experience. I feel better already.
Joy:)
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/15/02 12:03:00 PM EST, SandraDodd@... writes:
<< Liam McClure was a very late talker >>
Forgive my ignorance but who is Liam McClure?
I am so thankful for unschooling and for being able to talk with a group like
this, because without it unschooling is very lonely.
Joy
<< Liam McClure was a very late talker >>
Forgive my ignorance but who is Liam McClure?
I am so thankful for unschooling and for being able to talk with a group like
this, because without it unschooling is very lonely.
Joy
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/15/02 10:22:20 AM, GSmith8995@... writes:
<< << Liam McClure was a very late talker >>
Forgive my ignorance but who is Liam McClure? >>
Someone I know who's not my kid.
He's one of the kids in this article:
http://www.unschooling.com/library/index.shtml
<< << Liam McClure was a very late talker >>
Forgive my ignorance but who is Liam McClure? >>
Someone I know who's not my kid.
He's one of the kids in this article:
http://www.unschooling.com/library/index.shtml
Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema
If his behavior suddenly changed or followed an innoculation, I might get
him checked out. Otherwise, I wouldn't worry just yet.
Besdies, you have my son there!
Damian didn't talk until he was 3. His older sister did most of his
talking for him, he used gestures or he screamed in frustration/rage to
communicate! When he did decide to speak, it was in full sentences. His
first sentence was 'Me want donut!' in a most imperious tone and he hasn't
shut up since. He played alongside kids until he was maybe 5 or 6 or
something then played with them. He's also extremely agile. I call him my
tree-monkey or mountain-goat because he's always clambering up on
something. ...and he can tune out like anything. If you want to know that
he's heard something you said, you have to ask him to repeat it, otherwise,
it can look like he's heard you, but it's gone right on by.
He's also a bit of a control freak. He likes to know what's going to
happen with him, what it'll be like, how long it'll take and the power to
say 'no way' to it if he doesn't want to do it. But then, maybe that's all
of us who are that way. He very much likes to know what's going to happen
next, versus just going with the flow. He doesn't like a lot of change in
routine or surroundings (unless he's causing the change!)
Now he's 13. He's still a tree-monkey and tunes us out when he's busy. He
adores things mechanical or electronic. He doesn't like to read, but
enjoys books-on-CD. He's brilliant at math and he has a goodly number of
wonderful friends. He likes going to sleep-away camp and has a riot while
he's there. He's great at interior design. He still doesn't like a lot of
change, unless he's causing it. If it were totally up to him, he'd wear
the same shirt for a week, grungy and everything. (I ask him to humor me
and change, please.) He's not romantically interested in girls yet (or
boys, for that matter.) He's incredibly bright, interested in the world
and good at video games. He keeps trying to teach me how to play them so
we can play online together and I can't quiet manage it... maybe 'cause I'm
not really into them. Poor kid. He loves chess and is always looking for
someone to play with. ...and poker. He's built a remote control glider
all by himself (well, with the hubby pitching in on some of the
4-hand-needing glue bits) although he still has to reverse the servos.
Anyway, he's a pretty great and 'normal' kid, and he sounds a lot like your
kid at 3. I wouldn't worry about his behavior at this stage. ...and if
you think you're kid is pretty great now, think of what a great kid he'll
be when he's 13!!!
Heidi
At 11:38 AM 11/15/2002 -0500, you wrote:
him checked out. Otherwise, I wouldn't worry just yet.
Besdies, you have my son there!
Damian didn't talk until he was 3. His older sister did most of his
talking for him, he used gestures or he screamed in frustration/rage to
communicate! When he did decide to speak, it was in full sentences. His
first sentence was 'Me want donut!' in a most imperious tone and he hasn't
shut up since. He played alongside kids until he was maybe 5 or 6 or
something then played with them. He's also extremely agile. I call him my
tree-monkey or mountain-goat because he's always clambering up on
something. ...and he can tune out like anything. If you want to know that
he's heard something you said, you have to ask him to repeat it, otherwise,
it can look like he's heard you, but it's gone right on by.
He's also a bit of a control freak. He likes to know what's going to
happen with him, what it'll be like, how long it'll take and the power to
say 'no way' to it if he doesn't want to do it. But then, maybe that's all
of us who are that way. He very much likes to know what's going to happen
next, versus just going with the flow. He doesn't like a lot of change in
routine or surroundings (unless he's causing the change!)
Now he's 13. He's still a tree-monkey and tunes us out when he's busy. He
adores things mechanical or electronic. He doesn't like to read, but
enjoys books-on-CD. He's brilliant at math and he has a goodly number of
wonderful friends. He likes going to sleep-away camp and has a riot while
he's there. He's great at interior design. He still doesn't like a lot of
change, unless he's causing it. If it were totally up to him, he'd wear
the same shirt for a week, grungy and everything. (I ask him to humor me
and change, please.) He's not romantically interested in girls yet (or
boys, for that matter.) He's incredibly bright, interested in the world
and good at video games. He keeps trying to teach me how to play them so
we can play online together and I can't quiet manage it... maybe 'cause I'm
not really into them. Poor kid. He loves chess and is always looking for
someone to play with. ...and poker. He's built a remote control glider
all by himself (well, with the hubby pitching in on some of the
4-hand-needing glue bits) although he still has to reverse the servos.
Anyway, he's a pretty great and 'normal' kid, and he sounds a lot like your
kid at 3. I wouldn't worry about his behavior at this stage. ...and if
you think you're kid is pretty great now, think of what a great kid he'll
be when he's 13!!!
Heidi
At 11:38 AM 11/15/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Does anyone have experience when it comes to late talking children (3 years
>+) I have a 3 year old son who doesn't really talk ( he says a few words
>like me, no way, cup) but mainly hands you something like a cup to indicate
>he wants you to get him something to drink or pulls on leg to get you to get
>up and follow him. He also doesn't play with other children just beside them
>or may ignore them all together. He is very agile. And he can ignore you
>unlike any child I've ever been around. But I believe his hearing is good.
>He is also the baby of four children.
> I get this sick feeling that he has autistic tendencies. The idea of
>taking him to the pediatrician makes me exhausted. He resists anything like
>that. So I can't imagine them trying to diagnose him while he is screaming.
>He doesn't usually like other people. Well, he doesn't dislike them but just
>doesn't want him messing with him. Not the most social kid in the world.
>
> The bottom line is that I don't want him labeled. I want to help if it is
>one of those things that has a certain "window of opportunity", I don't want
>to miss. But what if he is just who he is and is just very immature. How do
>I know the difference? He is very different from his siblings.
>
> There is so much early intervention that I believe is unnecesary. It's a
>big business. Do I sound like a worried mom or what? Anybody ever felt
>like this?
>
> I guess the thing to do is take him to the pediatrician, screaming and
> all.
> If he is diagnosed as autistic, I get another diagnosis and then move from
>there. I hate all this! I'm so afraid.
>
>Joy
Shyrley
On 15 Nov 02, at 12:12, GSmith8995@... wrote:
I would also say that things that seem like huge problems and
issues become less so as the years go on. (Remember the
anxiety you get with your first baby about how often they pooped
and what it looked like?)
B was a very quiet baby and a shy anxious toddler but he
developed normally. Walking and talking. He had terrible excma
(sp?) which didn't clear up until I took him to a homeopath. And I
mean terrible. From the neck down he was a mass of sores that
cracked and weeped. I had severe PND plus H who I've described
before (think Atilla the Hun) and R who was a baby so the conty
helped me with a nursery place for the older two. It was them that
first reported that he seemed odd. By the time he went to skool at
4 it was obvious. He wouldn't look at people, he screamed when
there was loud noises, he threw tantrums when I moved anything in
the house. At skool he hid under the desk much of the time and
lashed out at other kids if they were noisy. He cvouldn't cope with
strong smells or tastes. If I tried to hold him he went rigid - like a
surfboard. You could tuck him under one arm. He couldn't bear to
be touched. Changing his nappy was an ordeal. He became afriad
of the toilet - the noise and the fact it is a big hole. He wouldn't eat
cos it made his tummy feel strange (ie.Full).
I started by saying his name when I spoke to him. Every single
time. We kept the TV volume low, didn't change the furniture.
Gradually I got him to look at me when we spoke. Nothing
aggressive but sometimes I would guide his chin so that we looked
into each other's eyes. I sat next to him at bedtime and read
stories and asked him what he thought. At first he didn't answer
but gradually he began to offer opinions about the story and
eventully came out with his thoughts about the day. A friend who
was a Shiatsu practitioner gave him free sessions. That really
helped. As did homeopathy.
When B was 6 and a half he hugged me for the first time ever. It
really was a slow gradual process of getting him to interact with the
world, to take note that there were other people in it. I always made
sure I was looking into his eyes when I spoke to him. At 6 we
bought him a kitten. He still has her and she's his best friend.
Fortunately she's one of those loyal cats and follows him
everywhere. That cat made a huge difference in his life.
B now seems almost 'normal' but I still can't touch him without
permission. He will hug me often but dislikes being hugged back.
Taking him away from skool when he was 7 made an enormous
difference. He stopped being an angry tired little boy and began to
explore the world on his own terms.
Most of it is standing back and seeing how he likes to interact and
then responding to that. When he's tired or upset he reverts into a
withdrawn child and refuses to communicate.
Hope that helps. It wasn't very well written cos I've never really
thought about how I did it, I just did it. It was slow and took several
years but not once did I think about taking him to see an 'expert'.
That would have traumatised him greatly so I just followed my
instincts.
Shyrley
"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."
> In a message dated 11/15/02 11:54:44 AM EST,Well, are you sitting comfortably.....then I'll begin ;-)
> shyrley.williams@... writes:
>
> << I can describe how I got through to my child who is
> autistic. >>
> Yes, I would like that very much. Thanks so much for sharing your
> experience. I feel better already.
>
> Joy:)
>
I would also say that things that seem like huge problems and
issues become less so as the years go on. (Remember the
anxiety you get with your first baby about how often they pooped
and what it looked like?)
B was a very quiet baby and a shy anxious toddler but he
developed normally. Walking and talking. He had terrible excma
(sp?) which didn't clear up until I took him to a homeopath. And I
mean terrible. From the neck down he was a mass of sores that
cracked and weeped. I had severe PND plus H who I've described
before (think Atilla the Hun) and R who was a baby so the conty
helped me with a nursery place for the older two. It was them that
first reported that he seemed odd. By the time he went to skool at
4 it was obvious. He wouldn't look at people, he screamed when
there was loud noises, he threw tantrums when I moved anything in
the house. At skool he hid under the desk much of the time and
lashed out at other kids if they were noisy. He cvouldn't cope with
strong smells or tastes. If I tried to hold him he went rigid - like a
surfboard. You could tuck him under one arm. He couldn't bear to
be touched. Changing his nappy was an ordeal. He became afriad
of the toilet - the noise and the fact it is a big hole. He wouldn't eat
cos it made his tummy feel strange (ie.Full).
I started by saying his name when I spoke to him. Every single
time. We kept the TV volume low, didn't change the furniture.
Gradually I got him to look at me when we spoke. Nothing
aggressive but sometimes I would guide his chin so that we looked
into each other's eyes. I sat next to him at bedtime and read
stories and asked him what he thought. At first he didn't answer
but gradually he began to offer opinions about the story and
eventully came out with his thoughts about the day. A friend who
was a Shiatsu practitioner gave him free sessions. That really
helped. As did homeopathy.
When B was 6 and a half he hugged me for the first time ever. It
really was a slow gradual process of getting him to interact with the
world, to take note that there were other people in it. I always made
sure I was looking into his eyes when I spoke to him. At 6 we
bought him a kitten. He still has her and she's his best friend.
Fortunately she's one of those loyal cats and follows him
everywhere. That cat made a huge difference in his life.
B now seems almost 'normal' but I still can't touch him without
permission. He will hug me often but dislikes being hugged back.
Taking him away from skool when he was 7 made an enormous
difference. He stopped being an angry tired little boy and began to
explore the world on his own terms.
Most of it is standing back and seeing how he likes to interact and
then responding to that. When he's tired or upset he reverts into a
withdrawn child and refuses to communicate.
Hope that helps. It wasn't very well written cos I've never really
thought about how I did it, I just did it. It was slow and took several
years but not once did I think about taking him to see an 'expert'.
That would have traumatised him greatly so I just followed my
instincts.
Shyrley
"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."
marji
Shyrley. You're just fantastic. Plain and simple. What a human being you
are.
Love,
Marji
are.
Love,
Marji
> > << I can describe how I got through to my child who is[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > autistic. >>
> > Yes, I would like that very much. Thanks so much for sharing your
> > experience. I feel better already.
> >
> > Joy:)
> >
> Well, are you sitting comfortably.....then I'll begin ;-)
Pam Sorooshian
>><< I can describe how I got through to my child who isautistic. >>
Yes, I would like that very much. Thanks so much for sharing your
experience. I feel better already.
<<
I can't find it now, but I read some research not too long ago that showed
that MOTHERS were as good or better at diagnosing their own children's
autism then professionals.
In the article I read, it talked about how professionals questioned the
mothers/fathers about the child's actual behaviors, but tended to
completely ignore the conclusions the parents had drawn. And the parents
were mostly distrustful, themselves, of their own conclusions too.
But - when they did studies where they asked parents, in advance of
consultation with various kinds of professionals, what THEY thought was the
correct diagnosis for their own child, then had a number of different kinds
of professionals diagnose the children, then kept track of those children
over time, it turned out that the mothers' diagnoses seemed to be the most
accurate.
You know yourself -- if you're not a person who tends to get carried away
and worry needlessly and horribilize things, in general, then you ought to
trust your own conclusions.
Keep in mind that if your child does have some sort of autism, the very
best response could likely be to just do what you would have done anyway as
an unschooling mom -- supporting and working with that child - accepting
that he is who he is - and building on strengths and working around
weaknesses -- that isn't any different than what you do with other kids. So
getting a "diagnosis" isn't necessarily all that important unless you
think there are some sorts of services you want where a specific diagnosis
is necessary. Be careful of thinking that getting a diagnosis means that
much -- doing these kinds of diagnoses are often nothing more than giving
technical descriptions to a set of behaviors that you, as a parent, are
already familiar with since you live with him. Getting someone else to
confirm that, yes, these behaviors are happening and grouped together they
are called some technical name, doesn't really provide you with more
information than you already have.
You can read up on autism of all kinds and what kinds of work people do
with autistic kids and you can use their ideas to the degree they make
sense to you to use with your kid - and ignore what doesn't make
sense. You might find some ideas that will help you - but more likely
you'll find a lot that you'd find entirely inappropriate. You'll have to
sort it out. BUT - trust yourself, don't just believe any specific expert
-- remember, people can find an "expert" to support any approach they want
to take.
Pam Sorooshian
National Home Education Network
www.NHEN.org
Changing the Way the World Sees Homeschooling
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shyrley
On 15 Nov 02, at 10:06, marji wrote:
Can you come live next to me and say that more often. Especially
on the days I've been shouting at my kids and feeling like the
world's worst mother?
Shyrley
"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."
> Shyrley. You're just fantastic. Plain and simple. What a humanAwwwwwwww shucks.
> being you are.
>
> Love,
>
> Marji
>
Can you come live next to me and say that more often. Especially
on the days I've been shouting at my kids and feeling like the
world's worst mother?
Shyrley
"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/15/02 11:16:44 AM, pamsoroosh@... writes:
<< if you're not a person who tends to get carried away
and worry needlessly and horribilize things >>
Good word.
"Horribilize."
I need to quit horribilizing my being stuck with a broken leg.
-=-You can read up on autism of all kinds and what kinds of work people do
with autistic kids and you can use their ideas to the degree they make
sense to you to use with your kid - and ignore what doesn't make
sense. You might find some ideas that will help you - but more likely
you'll find a lot that you'd find entirely inappropriate. You'll have to
sort it out. -=-
I was diagnosed (after 36 hours of starvation, four big blood-draws, missing
a weekend of my 19 year old life) with "borderline hypoglycemia," and the
doctor said we should run the test again.
NO!!! No, no no, it was awful. I was in the infirmary at the university
which is all that kept me from eating. And I had to quit looking at
magazines and tv because of the food ads.
I said, "WELL, if it hadn't been borderline, what would have been the
treatment?"
[sad pause here for the storytelling effect...]
"We would have just asked you to eat protein snacks several times a day
between meals."
THAT WAS IT.
They tortured me for THAT!??
So ever since then, if I'm feeling that light-headed depth-perception
problem, I eat protein.
No sense getting a diagnosis if the "treatment" is a normal, everyday thing.
And if a child doesn't like being touched, or hearing loud sounds, that's
EASY.
Sandra
<< if you're not a person who tends to get carried away
and worry needlessly and horribilize things >>
Good word.
"Horribilize."
I need to quit horribilizing my being stuck with a broken leg.
-=-You can read up on autism of all kinds and what kinds of work people do
with autistic kids and you can use their ideas to the degree they make
sense to you to use with your kid - and ignore what doesn't make
sense. You might find some ideas that will help you - but more likely
you'll find a lot that you'd find entirely inappropriate. You'll have to
sort it out. -=-
I was diagnosed (after 36 hours of starvation, four big blood-draws, missing
a weekend of my 19 year old life) with "borderline hypoglycemia," and the
doctor said we should run the test again.
NO!!! No, no no, it was awful. I was in the infirmary at the university
which is all that kept me from eating. And I had to quit looking at
magazines and tv because of the food ads.
I said, "WELL, if it hadn't been borderline, what would have been the
treatment?"
[sad pause here for the storytelling effect...]
"We would have just asked you to eat protein snacks several times a day
between meals."
THAT WAS IT.
They tortured me for THAT!??
So ever since then, if I'm feeling that light-headed depth-perception
problem, I eat protein.
No sense getting a diagnosis if the "treatment" is a normal, everyday thing.
And if a child doesn't like being touched, or hearing loud sounds, that's
EASY.
Sandra
Betsy
**But - when they did studies where they asked parents, in advance of
consultation with various kinds of professionals, what THEY thought was
the
correct diagnosis for their own child, then had a number of different
kinds
of professionals diagnose the children, then kept track of those
children
over time, it turned out that the mothers' diagnoses seemed to be the
most
accurate. **
Yeah. We may not have expert knowledge of behavioral disorders but we
have clocked enormous amounts of time with our kids, and we are the
experts on THEM.
It riles me that the state of California (or at least the Ed.
bureaucrats) will make noises about homeschooling moms being unqualified
to teach their kids. They are totally discounting the amazing expertise
that we do have.
Betsy
consultation with various kinds of professionals, what THEY thought was
the
correct diagnosis for their own child, then had a number of different
kinds
of professionals diagnose the children, then kept track of those
children
over time, it turned out that the mothers' diagnoses seemed to be the
most
accurate. **
Yeah. We may not have expert knowledge of behavioral disorders but we
have clocked enormous amounts of time with our kids, and we are the
experts on THEM.
It riles me that the state of California (or at least the Ed.
bureaucrats) will make noises about homeschooling moms being unqualified
to teach their kids. They are totally discounting the amazing expertise
that we do have.
Betsy
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/15/02 10:42:05 AM Central Standard Time,
GSmith8995@... writes:
My son was a late talker. We had his hearing tested and then went to a
speech therapist. His hearing was fine, but he had a whole lot of ear wax.
I've never been sure if the intervention helped or if he would have picked it
all up anyway. FWIW, at 2 he tested at the 15 month level, at 3 he tested at
the 4 year level. I'm not sure what the levels are anymore, but at the time
I did a whole lot of research.
He started really talking through music. We have been taking a music class
since he was 18 months old and he loves to sing. So his first sentences were
songs. We made up songs for everything. "This is the way we brush our
teeth, brush our teeth, brush our teeth, this is the way we brush our teeth
so early in the morning." Even now he is interested in math and we've made
up a scale song for addition. So, had we kept on with just the singing and
not done the early intervention program, he might have had the same results.
early intervention used to be a bigger business when the state picked up all
the costs. But in the last two years, Illinois has changed the definitions
and far fewer kids are being treated.
I had the testing done at the house, for the most part. They evaluated him
on a lot of things, not just speech. He didn't jump on two feet at 2 either,
for some reason. And I was really worried about his speech. I remember
begging and pleading with him, trying to get him to say things, crying over
it.
He responded well to the therapy because he thought his therapist had the
best toys. She was really good at picking up on what he was good at and
using it as a tool to get him to speak. Puzzles were a favorite, for
example. He just thought of it as a play group. My dd and I went with him,
so we all had fun.
Having his hearing tested might not be a bad idea. Or you could just stand
behind him and whisper about something he's interested in, like chocolate
chip cookies. If you can find a good speech therapist, it really can't hurt.
But you have to zone out all their paperwork bullshit stuff. Of course, the
state may pick it up and then you'll be part of that general filing system.
I refused to have him tested by the school district here at age three because
I didn't really want them to know we existed. The goals they set have to be
yours and you need to participate actively. I would never let a session
happen without me being there.
It's a tricky dilemma. I remember reading a book, which may have been called
something like Late Talkers, which put my mind at ease. Not all kids are
social, they all have different strengths. And many late talkers tend to be
logical, mechanical, scientific types. I think Einstein may have been a late
talker.
Good luck with it!
Elizabeth
GSmith8995@... writes:
> here is so much early intervention that I believe is unnecesary. It's aJoy -
> big business. Do I sound like a worried mom or what? Anybody ever felt
> like this?
My son was a late talker. We had his hearing tested and then went to a
speech therapist. His hearing was fine, but he had a whole lot of ear wax.
I've never been sure if the intervention helped or if he would have picked it
all up anyway. FWIW, at 2 he tested at the 15 month level, at 3 he tested at
the 4 year level. I'm not sure what the levels are anymore, but at the time
I did a whole lot of research.
He started really talking through music. We have been taking a music class
since he was 18 months old and he loves to sing. So his first sentences were
songs. We made up songs for everything. "This is the way we brush our
teeth, brush our teeth, brush our teeth, this is the way we brush our teeth
so early in the morning." Even now he is interested in math and we've made
up a scale song for addition. So, had we kept on with just the singing and
not done the early intervention program, he might have had the same results.
early intervention used to be a bigger business when the state picked up all
the costs. But in the last two years, Illinois has changed the definitions
and far fewer kids are being treated.
I had the testing done at the house, for the most part. They evaluated him
on a lot of things, not just speech. He didn't jump on two feet at 2 either,
for some reason. And I was really worried about his speech. I remember
begging and pleading with him, trying to get him to say things, crying over
it.
He responded well to the therapy because he thought his therapist had the
best toys. She was really good at picking up on what he was good at and
using it as a tool to get him to speak. Puzzles were a favorite, for
example. He just thought of it as a play group. My dd and I went with him,
so we all had fun.
Having his hearing tested might not be a bad idea. Or you could just stand
behind him and whisper about something he's interested in, like chocolate
chip cookies. If you can find a good speech therapist, it really can't hurt.
But you have to zone out all their paperwork bullshit stuff. Of course, the
state may pick it up and then you'll be part of that general filing system.
I refused to have him tested by the school district here at age three because
I didn't really want them to know we existed. The goals they set have to be
yours and you need to participate actively. I would never let a session
happen without me being there.
It's a tricky dilemma. I remember reading a book, which may have been called
something like Late Talkers, which put my mind at ease. Not all kids are
social, they all have different strengths. And many late talkers tend to be
logical, mechanical, scientific types. I think Einstein may have been a late
talker.
Good luck with it!
Elizabeth
Liz Creevey
Hi,
I'm new to this group but i thought i'd give you my 5 cents worth of
experience on this one!
My youngest was also like you describe your boy. I went to a speach language
therapist who suggested autism, but i've never gone down the path of a
clinical diagnosis. They also cannot accurately diagnos an autistic spectrum
child until they are older anyway ( and I still havn't gone down the path).
At your stage we concentrated on speech as this is essential for future
prognosis and were advised to use single words when speaking and playing
with him (the rest of us are prone to verbal excess), not to ask questions
of him. If language computation is taking it's time this is too much info to
locate. It comes in time.
Boys use one side of their brain to compute language where girls use two
sides thats why language delays are more common wih boys. Basically build on
what he's already got, and the child in front of you. (Our usual parenting
skills anyway!!)
I wish I never told anyone I know, even in the homeschooling circles as
people do treat him differently, and I found that listening to the
proffessionals too much went against my instincts and made life harder for
him and us in the end.
Socially, lots of kids that age still parrallel play. We assisted him to at
least look at what others were doing (a useful tool was to track my finger
across his path of vision and that would drag his eyes to whatever i wanted
to point out). Keeping socialising to small numbers helped, thats where
homeschooling is perfect. I wish I had done it then.
All things change with age.
Listen to your instincts. Let me know if you'd like to know anymore actual
activities that helped. ( by the way does he love Thomas the Tank Engine?)
Liz.
I'm new to this group but i thought i'd give you my 5 cents worth of
experience on this one!
My youngest was also like you describe your boy. I went to a speach language
therapist who suggested autism, but i've never gone down the path of a
clinical diagnosis. They also cannot accurately diagnos an autistic spectrum
child until they are older anyway ( and I still havn't gone down the path).
At your stage we concentrated on speech as this is essential for future
prognosis and were advised to use single words when speaking and playing
with him (the rest of us are prone to verbal excess), not to ask questions
of him. If language computation is taking it's time this is too much info to
locate. It comes in time.
Boys use one side of their brain to compute language where girls use two
sides thats why language delays are more common wih boys. Basically build on
what he's already got, and the child in front of you. (Our usual parenting
skills anyway!!)
I wish I never told anyone I know, even in the homeschooling circles as
people do treat him differently, and I found that listening to the
proffessionals too much went against my instincts and made life harder for
him and us in the end.
Socially, lots of kids that age still parrallel play. We assisted him to at
least look at what others were doing (a useful tool was to track my finger
across his path of vision and that would drag his eyes to whatever i wanted
to point out). Keeping socialising to small numbers helped, thats where
homeschooling is perfect. I wish I had done it then.
All things change with age.
Listen to your instincts. Let me know if you'd like to know anymore actual
activities that helped. ( by the way does he love Thomas the Tank Engine?)
Liz.
Kate Green
When did he turn 3? My oldest was a later talker (2.5) and I know it can be
worrying.
But the things you are describing seem to indicate a problem bigger than
just late talking. The way he plays can show levels of development and if
he isn't really able to interact socially then there may be more going on.
As others have said parents are often the best judges of their children and
if "you" are worried that there is a problem then there is a good chance
that there may be (especially since he's your 4th child).
Again as others have suggested I would try and find a developmental
psychologist or therapist who is supportive of AP or HS (or at least
familiar with it). You can always interview them before taking your child.
Ask questions that "test" how this person would handle things. There are
some really great psychologists out there and they truly want to help. But
you have to do your work as well by finding one who is in sync with your
beliefs.
Some of these problems may be lessened as he grows older but if he truly
does have a problem then it makes more sense to try and get him (and the
family) some good help. If he had a physical problem you would seek help so
it should be the same with something like this IMO!
Kate -- who as a child psychologist is probably a little biased:)
At 11:38 AM 11/15/02 -0500, you wrote:
worrying.
But the things you are describing seem to indicate a problem bigger than
just late talking. The way he plays can show levels of development and if
he isn't really able to interact socially then there may be more going on.
As others have said parents are often the best judges of their children and
if "you" are worried that there is a problem then there is a good chance
that there may be (especially since he's your 4th child).
Again as others have suggested I would try and find a developmental
psychologist or therapist who is supportive of AP or HS (or at least
familiar with it). You can always interview them before taking your child.
Ask questions that "test" how this person would handle things. There are
some really great psychologists out there and they truly want to help. But
you have to do your work as well by finding one who is in sync with your
beliefs.
Some of these problems may be lessened as he grows older but if he truly
does have a problem then it makes more sense to try and get him (and the
family) some good help. If he had a physical problem you would seek help so
it should be the same with something like this IMO!
Kate -- who as a child psychologist is probably a little biased:)
At 11:38 AM 11/15/02 -0500, you wrote:
> Does anyone have experience when it comes to late talking children (3get
>years
> 3 year old son who doesn't really talk ( he says a few words
> like me, no way, cup) but mainly hands you something like a cup to indicate
> he wants you to get him something to drink or pulls on leg to get you to
> He also doesn't play with other children just beside themall.
> And he can ignore you
>
> He is also the baby of four children.
> The idea of
> He resists anything like
>
> Well, he doesn't dislike them but just
> doesn't want him messing with him. Not the most social kid in the world.
>
> I want to help if it is
>"", I don't want
> How do
> He is very different from his siblings.
>
> It's a
> Anybody ever felt
>
>
> I guess the thing to do is take him to the pediatrician, screaming and
> If he is diagnosed as autistic, I get another diagnosis and then move from
> I'm so afraid.
>
> Joy
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[email protected]
Oh Shyrley, thank you so much for telling me all of that. All I could think
was what a courageous person you are... what courageous people we all can be
when it's called for.
Joy
was what a courageous person you are... what courageous people we all can be
when it's called for.
Joy
[email protected]
I found an incredible article on the google search engine about late talking
children by Thomas Sowell. Wow! it's worth the read.
Joy
children by Thomas Sowell. Wow! it's worth the read.
Joy
[email protected]
I'm almost embarrassed to admit this because of the mixed reaction of
television viewing but one of Daniel's favorite things to do is watch videos.
He's not usually interested in television programs unless it's Teletubbies
but he loves his videos (elmo, teletubbies, raggedy ann & andy, little bear,
peanuts etc...) He likes to match the covers with the video (that was before
they became all worn and/or lost.) Sometimes all he wants to do is watch the
previews at the beginning but usually it's related to another video or
pictures in a book. I know he can read all the titles. Remember there are no
covers anymore. Some days he gets on a kick where all he wants to do is watch
a particular "genre". Some videos he may not like part of so he leaves the
room just outside the door until that part is over and comes back.
He can operate the vcr and the rewinder.
Ok, so I'm one of those moms who lets her children watch as much tv as they
want and play video games too! :)
Joy
television viewing but one of Daniel's favorite things to do is watch videos.
He's not usually interested in television programs unless it's Teletubbies
but he loves his videos (elmo, teletubbies, raggedy ann & andy, little bear,
peanuts etc...) He likes to match the covers with the video (that was before
they became all worn and/or lost.) Sometimes all he wants to do is watch the
previews at the beginning but usually it's related to another video or
pictures in a book. I know he can read all the titles. Remember there are no
covers anymore. Some days he gets on a kick where all he wants to do is watch
a particular "genre". Some videos he may not like part of so he leaves the
room just outside the door until that part is over and comes back.
He can operate the vcr and the rewinder.
Ok, so I'm one of those moms who lets her children watch as much tv as they
want and play video games too! :)
Joy
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/15/02 5:41:26 PM EST, mogilvie@... writes:
<< I wish I never told anyone I know, even in the homeschooling circles as
people do treat him differently, and I found that listening to the
proffessionals too much went against my instincts and made life harder for
him and us in the end. >>
This is interesting. After talking with this homeschooling mom "friend"
about some of this is when I started feeling anxious!! Sometimes all you
need is talk to someone. Having a friend that just listens is such a
blessing, isn't it? I had an older friend I met as a teenager that was that.
She listened. Charlotte died 2 years ago; I really miss her. I try to
remember to be a friend like that too. She definitely taught me that because
I'm usually trying to solve problems. :)
Joy
<< I wish I never told anyone I know, even in the homeschooling circles as
people do treat him differently, and I found that listening to the
proffessionals too much went against my instincts and made life harder for
him and us in the end. >>
This is interesting. After talking with this homeschooling mom "friend"
about some of this is when I started feeling anxious!! Sometimes all you
need is talk to someone. Having a friend that just listens is such a
blessing, isn't it? I had an older friend I met as a teenager that was that.
She listened. Charlotte died 2 years ago; I really miss her. I try to
remember to be a friend like that too. She definitely taught me that because
I'm usually trying to solve problems. :)
Joy
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/17/02 8:22:40 AM, GSmith8995@... writes:
<< He likes to match the covers with the video (that was before
they became all worn and/or lost.) >>
You can buy (or maybe beg from some nearby Hollywood Video, or get them from
the dumpster at night, as we do!) plastic boxes and make your own paper
inserts for them. We've done paper inserts by downloading pictures of things
from the internet and printing out and trimming.
Holly and I just watched Teletubbies the other day. They were doing "PURPLE"
for the video. We kinda prefer the videos of exotic lands, but purple was
okay. (Again! Again!)
Sandra, whose teletubbies watching baby is eleven years old
<< He likes to match the covers with the video (that was before
they became all worn and/or lost.) >>
You can buy (or maybe beg from some nearby Hollywood Video, or get them from
the dumpster at night, as we do!) plastic boxes and make your own paper
inserts for them. We've done paper inserts by downloading pictures of things
from the internet and printing out and trimming.
Holly and I just watched Teletubbies the other day. They were doing "PURPLE"
for the video. We kinda prefer the videos of exotic lands, but purple was
okay. (Again! Again!)
Sandra, whose teletubbies watching baby is eleven years old
Lisa P
Hi Group!
I'm new to your list. We are unschoolers and non-coersive parents.
Okay, so we really try anyway!
Our son is 9, but on any given day appears to be 3 or 30. We pulled him out of third grade last year in frustration and anger. Why we ever thought it was a good idea to send him to school in the first place, I attribute to our own compulsory education and midwestern work ethic. Friends and family generally think we're nuts and a little radical, but that's the idea, isn't it?? LOL!
So, it will be nice to sit in with some like-minded folks and feel understood and supported. I'm looking forward to getting to know all of you!
Lisa :)
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 11/17/02 8:22:40 AM, GSmith8995@... writes:
<< He likes to match the covers with the video (that was before
they became all worn and/or lost.) >>
You can buy (or maybe beg from some nearby Hollywood Video, or get them from
the dumpster at night, as we do!) plastic boxes and make your own paper
inserts for them. We've done paper inserts by downloading pictures of things
from the internet and printing out and trimming.
Holly and I just watched Teletubbies the other day. They were doing "PURPLE"
for the video. We kinda prefer the videos of exotic lands, but purple was
okay. (Again! Again!)
Sandra, whose teletubbies watching baby is eleven years old
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm new to your list. We are unschoolers and non-coersive parents.
Okay, so we really try anyway!
Our son is 9, but on any given day appears to be 3 or 30. We pulled him out of third grade last year in frustration and anger. Why we ever thought it was a good idea to send him to school in the first place, I attribute to our own compulsory education and midwestern work ethic. Friends and family generally think we're nuts and a little radical, but that's the idea, isn't it?? LOL!
So, it will be nice to sit in with some like-minded folks and feel understood and supported. I'm looking forward to getting to know all of you!
Lisa :)
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 11/17/02 8:22:40 AM, GSmith8995@... writes:
<< He likes to match the covers with the video (that was before
they became all worn and/or lost.) >>
You can buy (or maybe beg from some nearby Hollywood Video, or get them from
the dumpster at night, as we do!) plastic boxes and make your own paper
inserts for them. We've done paper inserts by downloading pictures of things
from the internet and printing out and trimming.
Holly and I just watched Teletubbies the other day. They were doing "PURPLE"
for the video. We kinda prefer the videos of exotic lands, but purple was
okay. (Again! Again!)
Sandra, whose teletubbies watching baby is eleven years old
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/17/02 11:11:12 AM, polands_r_us@... writes:
<< Our son is 9, but on any given day appears to be 3 or 30. >>
I think that's healthy. I've always thought "act your age" was a bad thing
to say, especially since too often it means "act MY age."
Sandra
<< Our son is 9, but on any given day appears to be 3 or 30. >>
I think that's healthy. I've always thought "act your age" was a bad thing
to say, especially since too often it means "act MY age."
Sandra