Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema

I don't think I'd have said anything to the family or my co-leaders (or
maybe I would have to the co-leaders, but asked them to not do anything
just yet), because, except for the grandma maybe, they don't seem very
supportive. (although in retrospect, it doesn't seem that you had that
luxury as the gma walked up in the middle of it all, yes?)

I'd have taken her into the store and bought her a cold 6-pack of cola all
for herself and quietly told her that if she wanted something so
desperately, she should tell me and we'd see if we could work something out.

Of course, this means that I might be on the dock for all of her little
merchandise-wanna-have's AND the other kids might want a six-pack of their
own... so maybe I wouldn't.

There is no easy answer, eh.

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As you all know, I'm a Camp Fire leader. We're in the middle of our candy
sale fundraiser, and we're doing it via site-sales at the local Lowe's. It
works pretty well.

The problem is one of the kids took a dollar out of the till. Her cousin saw
her put her hand in the box (he had his hand in the box, too); I was standing
right there, tho I didn't see her take it, next thing I see is her sticking a
dollar into a coke machine. Her cousin loudly confronted her and she denied
(she's 9, he's 8). She got her coke. When I finally got all the money
counted at home today, of course, I was a dollar short.

I was calm about it at the time, tried to let it go and get on the with the
sale. But I did quietly and without threat inform her that I would be able
to know if a dollar was missing as soon as I counted the money. (The
conversation was complicated by the bossiness of the 8 yo towards his cousin,
so I didn't have much choice but to let it go at that time, else it would
escalate.)

Now that I know for sure that she took the dollar, I'm considering what to do
about. It's not like it broke the bank, of course. We received $40 in
donations alone that day, so the $1 for candy money can be made up out of
that. It's the fact that she thought the money was hers to take. I keep
trying to see it from her point of view. Not the best circumstances at home;
her grandmother brings her, her cousin and her sister to Camp Fire because
the parents won't; they're working the candy sale to pay for their $15
registration, and they've been on scholarship before that. The two girls are
a real pain to deal with anyway, but we perservere. My mother wisely
reminded me that honesty is a virtue even the poor should hold.

I hate this part of me that seems to want to make excuses for her and let it
go. But what am I teaching her as her CF leader if I do? Shouldn't I at
least try to make the point to her, without shaming or embarrassing her?
Shouldn't she be expected to give the money back? How will I even get her to
admit that she took it?

Part of the Camp Fire Law is "Be trustworthy", so I suspect we'll be working
on that at our next meeting. But what else? Ideas on how to handle the
girl? Ideas on games I can play re: trust/honesty/etc.?

Thanks,
Tuck


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In a message dated 11/11/02 10:10:08 AM, Tuckervill@... writes:

<< Ideas on how to handle the
girl? Ideas on games I can play re: trust/honesty/etc.? >>

There's a great Langston Hughes story called "Thank You, M'am" about a boy
who tries to steal a purse from a lady who catches him, brings him home for a
meal, lectures him on honesty, then gives him money to buy the shoes he wants
(not necessary shoes, blue suede shoes.) Maybe you could tell the girl that
if she needs a dollar for something she could just ask you for one. If the
home situation were better, I'd want to tell them, but you know best how to
handle that part.

Paula

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In a message dated 11/11/02 9:10:08 AM, Tuckervill@... writes:

<< Part of the Camp Fire Law is "Be trustworthy", so I suspect we'll be
working
on that at our next meeting. >>

"Be trustworthy" or what?

Maybe the next time she's where a money box is, you can just say (quietly)
that you don't want her dealing with the money because she needs to re-earn
your trust. Or in a more positive way, give your best members the special
privilege of giving change. (The bad thing about that is if someone buys
something from her and she's not allowed to put it in the box, it's in her
hand longer and...

Or you could ask casually if she has any money early in the day, and if she's
sticking a dollar in a coke maching later you can say "I thought you didn't
have any money."

With my boys I remind them if they're not honest people won't believe them
even when they are telling the truth.

It's a hard one.

Sandra

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In a message dated 11/11/2002 10:16:55 AM Central Standard Time,
sjogy@... writes:

> Maybe you could tell the girl that
> if she needs a dollar for something she could just ask you for one.

Yeah, and I've done that with my own children, or pointed it out to them.
For some reason that wasn't in my mind that day.

If the
>
> home situation were better, I'd want to tell them, but you know best how to
>
> handle that part.
>

The grandmother returned shortly after, while the girl was sticking the
dollar in the coke machine. Grandmother was sure she took it (apparently
it's a pattern), and was angry, but was willing to let it go since Bossy was
involved. I'm sure she didn't want to give Bossy more ammo. I'm certain
that when my co-leader calls Grandmother today to discuss it, it will be hard
to keep her from over-reacting. I want the girl to learn the lesson, not be
spanked, and I'd really like her to see that there are adults, at Camp Fire
at least, who respect her and care for her, and want to appeal to the best
parts of her.

I'm going to see if I can find that story. Thanks, Paula!

Tuck


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In a message dated 11/11/2002 10:19:17 AM Central Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

> Or you could ask casually if she has any money early in the day, and if
> she's
> sticking a dollar in a coke maching later you can say "I thought you didn't
>
> have any money."

Oooo, I hate having to do that! grrr. I try to see good in all people, and
I don't want to have to cover all the bases. yuck. But that's what it looks
like I'll have to do with this one.

>
> With my boys I remind them if they're not honest people won't believe them
> even when they are telling the truth.
>
>

Wolf.

Tuck


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Peggy

>From: Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema <heidi@...>

>
> I don't think I'd have said anything to the family or my co-leaders (or
> maybe I would have to the co-leaders, but asked them to not do anything
> just yet), because, except for the grandma maybe, they don't seem very
> supportive. (although in retrospect, it doesn't seem that you had that
> luxury as the gma walked up in the middle of it all, yes?)
>
> I'd have taken her into the store and bought her a cold 6-pack of cola all
> for herself and quietly told her that if she wanted something so
> desperately, she should tell me and we'd see if we could work something out.
>
> Of course, this means that I might be on the dock for all of her little
> merchandise-wanna-have's AND the other kids might want a six-pack of their
> own... so maybe I wouldn't.
>
> There is no easy answer, eh.

Or, if you know she took it and you have a witness and you know that her
grandmother/parents are not the way to go, why not try letting her earn the
dollar from you in some way? You can say, I know this is how you bought that
coke, now I want you to _______________________ to earn that money that I had
to replace for the fund. This lets her win back your respect and at the same
time lets her know that she didn't get away with it. Who knows what goes on at
home? She might see people stealing all the time, it isn't unusual for parents
with no ethics to expect their children to somehow exhibit them.

If it happens again or other kinds of trigger behaviors, it might be a real
sign of something serious going on in that girl's home life.

Peggy

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In a message dated 11/11/2002 1:22:36 PM Central Standard Time,
heidi@... writes:

<<I don't think I'd have said anything to the family or my co-leaders (or
maybe I would have to the co-leaders, but asked them to not do anything
just yet), because, except for the grandma maybe, they don't seem very
supportive. 
>>

My co-leader wasn't there. She is very supportive. I have never met these
girls' parents. The grandmother is doing the best she can.

> I'd have taken her into the store and bought her a cold 6-pack of cola all
> for herself and quietly told her that if she wanted something so
> desperately, she should tell me and we'd see if we could work something
> out.

I wish I could have. I would. Dh and I talked about this very thing. She
could learn, if she was hanging out at my house and around me more than a
couple of hours every 2 weeks, that she can have anything I am able to give
her. But I only have a little time, and I think the temporary gluttony that
would result from that policy would break the bank.

>
> Of course, this means that I might be on the dock for all of her little
> merchandise-wanna-have's AND the other kids might want a six-pack of their
> own... so maybe I wouldn't.


Yes, that was the immediate reaction of her sister's. I waited long enough
for the memory of the incident to fade somewhat, and for her grandmother to
step up (which she didn't), before buying her a coke with my own money. She
talked about how thirsty she was, in between sales. It was hard for me not
to just buy her a coke right away, but dang it--it's not my responsibility to
do so. But from now on, I'll be bringing water or lemonade and some crackers
or something, paid for with Camp Fire money.

Thanks for your input.

Tuck





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In a message dated 11/11/2002 3:17:27 PM Central Standard Time,
peggy@... writes:

> You can say, I know this is how you bought that
> coke, now I want you to _______________________ to earn that money that I
> had
> to replace for the fund. This lets her win back your respect and at the
> same
> time lets her know that she didn't get away with it.

Yeah, we have some work to do in the clothes closet we maintain for the
church, in return for using space there. I'm also thinking perhaps the
grandmother could have odd jobs for her to do until she earns the money back.
We'll see. Thanks for the ideas.

Tuck


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