[email protected]

Hi all! I wanted to share this web site I found today. I was looking for a
recipe today, (my Grandma used to make and couldn't find it here at home in
her old books and cards) and searched and searched online. I found this place
while googling and this guy is amazing!!! I searched the archives and
couldn't find the recipe so I emailed my question about 8pm, I already got a
response! He finds other things besides recipes too. So if you need to know
how to convert yards to gallons (yes it is possible! <g>) or who said
something... This seems to be the guy to go to! His site is:
http://www.hungrybrowser.com/phaedrus/m110901.htm#1

<A HREF="http://www.hungrybrowser.com/phaedrus/m110901.htm#1">Uncle Phaedrus, Finder of Lost Recipes</A>

~Nancy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema

So there was no leching to be found in my email in-basket this morning, but
instead I get an email from a cousin of mine (very nice and she
likes/admires me a great deal (she's from the black-sheep family and I'm
the black sheep in my family so there's some sympathy there)) saying that
her son is in this great charter school and wouldn't I like to donate to it
and $200 is a nice amount but any amount would be helpful, and to use some
tracking number so that the son's classroom will get credit for it.

It feels really wrong and I don't want to donate, mostly because of my
philosophical viewpoints on organized institutional education, even charters.
Does anyone have any ideas on how to word a graceful decline
(declination?)? I want to support her in her choice for her son
(especially as she's a single mom) but how do I decline to contribute while
letting her know it's on philosophical grounds, not personal ones? I don't
want to hurt her feelings by implying there's a better way to educate her
son, because maybe her circumstances won't allow her to do so, or
whatever. Do you know what I mean?
I'm really very open to suggestions here!
Heidi

Pam Hartley

If you don't have the money, I'd use that as the reason. "I'm so sorry, we
just can't afford it right now" is fine.

If you DO have the money and would like her to have it, just give it to her
and tell her it's a gift to do with as she pleases -- she can donate it
somewhere or keep it and use it.

Pam

----------
>From: Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema <heidi@...>
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Advice - school donation request
>Date: Wed, Nov 20, 2002, 3:49 PM
>

> So there was no leching to be found in my email in-basket this morning, but
> instead I get an email from a cousin of mine (very nice and she
> likes/admires me a great deal (she's from the black-sheep family and I'm
> the black sheep in my family so there's some sympathy there)) saying that
> her son is in this great charter school and wouldn't I like to donate to it
> and $200 is a nice amount but any amount would be helpful, and to use some
> tracking number so that the son's classroom will get credit for it.
>
> It feels really wrong and I don't want to donate, mostly because of my
> philosophical viewpoints on organized institutional education, even charters.
> Does anyone have any ideas on how to word a graceful decline
> (declination?)? I want to support her in her choice for her son
> (especially as she's a single mom) but how do I decline to contribute while
> letting her know it's on philosophical grounds, not personal ones? I don't
> want to hurt her feelings by implying there's a better way to educate her
> son, because maybe her circumstances won't allow her to do so, or
> whatever. Do you know what I mean?
> I'm really very open to suggestions here!
> Heidi
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema

At 03:55 PM 11/20/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>If you don't have the money, I'd use that as the reason. "I'm so sorry, we
>just can't afford it right now" is fine.
>
>If you DO have the money and would like her to have it, just give it to her
>and tell her it's a gift to do with as she pleases -- she can donate it
>somewhere or keep it and use it.

Hi Pam (and anyone else - chime in!!)
We *do* have the money she knows that while we're not filthy rich, we
definitely aren't hurting.

I thought maybe to buy something fun for the boy and send a little note
that we're homeschooling and don't donate to schools, and that we wanted
the boy to have something for himself...
Hmmmm, and maybe a book by John Holt for the mom/cousin? (sly grin)

Maybe that's the answer...
If I can only decide which book...
and what to get the little minx...
Heidi

Pam Sorooshian

So - why is this different than kids walking up to adults and asking them
for money?

I don't contribute to school fundraising, in general, unless they are
selling something that I actually can use and selling it at a reasonable
price. I don't ask other people to pay for my kids' activities and don't
expect to help pay for other peoples kids' activities (other than through
taxes, of course), but I will let them work for reasonable pay and I let my
kids stand in front of stores and sell girl scout cookies because people
can walk right on by and many do, but others act like they're THRILLED to
see the girls there and are super happy to buy those Thin Mints. I'm super
super careful to not let my kids approach people under circumstances where
the people feel at all pressured to contribute. I think it is wrong to ask
other people to support our own children, financially.

--pam

At 03:49 PM 11/20/2002, you wrote:
>So there was no leching to be found in my email in-basket this morning, but
>instead I get an email from a cousin of mine (very nice and she
>likes/admires me a great deal (she's from the black-sheep family and I'm
>the black sheep in my family so there's some sympathy there)) saying that
>her son is in this great charter school and wouldn't I like to donate to it
>and $200 is a nice amount but any amount would be helpful, and to use some
>tracking number so that the son's classroom will get credit for it.
>
>It feels really wrong and I don't want to donate, mostly because of my
>philosophical viewpoints on organized institutional education, even charters.
>Does anyone have any ideas on how to word a graceful decline
>(declination?)? I want to support her in her choice for her son
>(especially as she's a single mom) but how do I decline to contribute while
>letting her know it's on philosophical grounds, not personal ones? I don't
>want to hurt her feelings by implying there's a better way to educate her
>son, because maybe her circumstances won't allow her to do so, or
>whatever. Do you know what I mean?
>I'm really very open to suggestions here!
>Heidi
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>[email protected]
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Pam Sorooshian
National Home Education Network
www.NHEN.org
Changing the Way the World Sees Homeschooling

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/22/2002 8:34:56 PM Central Standard Time,
pamsoroosh@... writes:

> I think it is wrong to ask
> other people to support our own children, financially.
>

We had this discussion last night at the candy sale, regarding fundraisers
for public schools. I always bristled when my kids came home from school
with the giftwrap brochure or whatever. This was supposed to be about a FREE
public education, you know? (And I was really poor then, too.) So, when the
Camp Fire candy sale came up, I groaned, but I got on board.

The difference is that Camp Fire and Girl Scouts and all those other
organizations don't have the government giving them tax money (United Way and
government grants, which usually don't go directly to clubs anyway,
notwithstanding). They are only supported by membership fees and what people
will give them. I think fundraising is an honorable thing for kids to do for
a specific cause. It teaches kids that if the things they want to do cost
money and best way to get that money is to earn it. It teaches them the
value of hard work, too. It also teaches them to be charitable and have
sympathy for good causes. My own kid has learned so much self-confidence and
courtesy by attending these sales! We have also witnessed some very selfless
and inspiring giving and had lots of encouragement by total strangers, too.
This is why I am fully on board with kids in groups who aren't funded by
taxes having the experience of working for the money they need.

But man-o-man, schools shouldn't have to do that. Private schools should
rely on their alumni or something.

Tuck


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/22/2002 8:34:56 PM Central Standard Time,
pamsoroosh@... writes:

> I think it is wrong to ask
> other people to support our own children, financially.
>

This also reminds me of the time I got hammered on a message board when
everyone was talking about how they were going to do a fundraiser for their
home "school" and not tell anyone that the money was just going into their
pocket. I hope I'm not still the only one who sees how wrong that is.

Tuck


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pam Sorooshian

I think fund-raising can be good for the kids too, depending on how it is
done. I have no problem with kids in front of stores OFFERING a product or
making fliers and offering to walk dogs or do car washes or yard work, etc.

BUT - as I said - I don't feel that it is RIGHT to put even the smallest
amount of pressure on anybody else to help pay for MY kids' activities and
I very much resent ever feeling that pressure applied by other parents for
me to help pay for THEIR kids' activities.

Fundraising is ONLY okay in my mind if the product or service offered is
actually WORTH what is being charged AND if the people paying for it feel
like they are making a fully free choice.

I resent it when other people's kids come up to me and beg me to buy things
from them that I don't even want, just so THEY can go do some cool activity
or participate in some group. I don't think kids should be allowed to put
their parents friends, relatives, and neighbors "on the spot" where they
feel like they have to give the kid money or look like a cheapskate and I
do NOT let my kids do that.

I am totally absolutely FINE with the kids letting people know - "We're
selling magazine subscriptions - we have a HUGE selection of magazines, you
can renew your existing subscriptions with us, and our prices are very
good. So let me know if you'd like a catalog or want to order
something." THEN walk away and let it go. Don't try to talk me into it. I
don't think it is remotely cute for kids to be learning to beg other people
to support their fun --- "You should buy it because we really want to go on
this trip and we can't afford it without your help." So I should buy
something overpriced that I don't even really want so that somebody else's
kid can do something that their family can't afford? I really don't see
that as anything except begging. Again - offer goods or services - good
quality, low price - if people want them let them buy them -- I'm talking
about kids putting friends and relatives on the spot to buy things they do
NOT want and don't value.

If you expect me to buy something I don't even want, just to give your kids
a little money to do something -- I don't see that as any different AT ALL
then the little girl begging for a quarter to buy herself a candy.

Kids will learn good lessons from fund-raising where they offer people a
real product that they want or a real service -- but to expect all their
friends to buy something whether they want it or not - to put pressure on
friends like that- is teaching them a whole different lesson, imo.

--pam

At 02:23 AM 11/23/2002, you wrote:
>In a message dated 11/22/2002 8:34:56 PM Central Standard Time,
>pamsoroosh@... writes:
>
> > I think it is wrong to ask
> > other people to support our own children, financially.
> >
>
>We had this discussion last night at the candy sale, regarding fundraisers
>for public schools. I always bristled when my kids came home from school
>with the giftwrap brochure or whatever. This was supposed to be about a FREE
>public education, you know? (And I was really poor then, too.) So, when the
>Camp Fire candy sale came up, I groaned, but I got on board.
>
>The difference is that Camp Fire and Girl Scouts and all those other
>organizations don't have the government giving them tax money (United Way and
>government grants, which usually don't go directly to clubs anyway,
>notwithstanding). They are only supported by membership fees and what people
>will give them. I think fundraising is an honorable thing for kids to do for
>a specific cause. It teaches kids that if the things they want to do cost
>money and best way to get that money is to earn it. It teaches them the
>value of hard work, too. It also teaches them to be charitable and have
>sympathy for good causes. My own kid has learned so much self-confidence and
>courtesy by attending these sales! We have also witnessed some very selfless
>and inspiring giving and had lots of encouragement by total strangers, too.
>This is why I am fully on board with kids in groups who aren't funded by
>taxes having the experience of working for the money they need.
>
>But man-o-man, schools shouldn't have to do that. Private schools should
>rely on their alumni or something.
>
>Tuck
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>[email protected]
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Pam Sorooshian
National Home Education Network
www.NHEN.org
Changing the Way the World Sees Homeschooling

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/23/2002 11:16:35 AM Central Standard Time,
pamsoroosh@... writes:

> BUT - as I said - I don't feel that it is RIGHT to put even the smallest
> amount of pressure on anybody else to help pay for MY kids' activities and
> I very much resent ever feeling that pressure applied by other parents for
> me to help pay for THEIR kids' activities.
>

Yeah, I haven't even asked any of my friends to buy candy. I don't want to
be like the insurance salesman that everyone avoids!

Luckily for us, we had a couple of really outgoing kids in the group last
year. Their parents gave them a script to sell the candy and they were bold
enough to execute it. The script is simple: "Hi (or good afternoon), would
you like to buy some CF candy?" If the answer is no, then they say "okay,
thank you!". If it's yes, then they bring the person to the table where the
adults basically just make the transaction. Most of the kids are good at
saying thank you when the folks are leaving with their candy, too. My son
learned to sell this way, and their example was invaluable. Now those two
kids are gone and my son and others who learned from them is passing it down
this year.

We have a philosophy that we can't claim credit for, but has been very
useful. We code it SW-SW-SW....it means, "some will, some won't, so what?"
The kids have really grasped that and it gives them just the umph to keep on
asking in the face of many rejections.

Today a very nice thing happened. First sale of the day. My son asked the
question of a woman coming out of the store, and she stopped and said, "Of
course I will! But you have to do one thing for me. I will buy the candy,
but you have to give it to someone who would like it, but can't really afford
it." Then she said, "Do you know why I bought candy from you? Because you
ASKED me to. I'm in sales, and that's the really only way to sell anything!
Ask for it!" :))))

Later in the day Will gave that box to a mom with children who was really
having a tough time. He told her it was a gift that someone else had
purchased for her. I thought the whole thing was very sweet.

Tuck


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