[email protected]

I have a son who is nearly 11 who I've been homeschooling for going on four
years. I want to go all the way with unschooling but have a husband who is
seriously opposed where math is concerned. He wants to see a structured math
program followed on most days. He has seen the benefits of not enforcing
learning in a lot of subjects. He's supportive of unschooling as far as
writing or spelling or grammar or handwriting is concerned. He's pretty sure
Glenn will learn science and history naturally as we go along. He's read one
John Holt book and he read Dumbing Us Down. Really liked both of them. Agreed
with them. I have read him some really wonderful stuff I've read about
unschooling math written by some of the people who are on this list. I've
read to him from Why Children Fail which certainly seems appropriate to this
issue. But he just can't go along with unschooling math. He is the kind of
person who really needs to control others and will up the ante when
challenged. If you cross him when he's not in the mood to be crossed, he'll
make life much more unpleasant. He's being somewhat unpleasant lately. So far
we're conceding the math issue to him. It's seemed like a tradeoff to me.
Glenn and I get to be home with each other and the bulk of our day is
unstructured and though the math is a sore point, we get it out of the way
fairly quickly. But it's not the way I want it to be. Have any of you dealt
with husbands like this? What do you do?

Priss

Nancy Wooton

on 11/28/01 9:05 PM, Priss1000@... at Priss1000@... wrote:

> Glenn and I get to be home with each other and the bulk of our day is
> unstructured and though the math is a sore point, we get it out of the way
> fairly quickly. But it's not the way I want it to be. Have any of you dealt
> with husbands like this? What do you do?

Give the math teacher job to the husband.

Nancy (who never yet saw anything come of it ;-)

[email protected]

Give the math teacher job to the husband.

Nancy (who never yet saw anything come of it ;-)

This is so true! My dh teaches dd art! LOL
Elissa, (who also has never yet seen anything come of it)

Elizabeth Hill

Priss1000@... wrote:

> But he just can't go along with unschooling math. He is the kind of
> person who really needs to control others and will up the ante when
> challenged. If you cross him when he's not in the mood to be crossed,
> he'll
> make life much more unpleasant. He's being somewhat unpleasant lately.

Hi, Priss --

I'm a person with a pretty strong need to plan and control things,
people, etc. In me, I have to admit that it comes from being deeply
insecure and fearful. Planning/bossing is just a thing I do, kind of a
bad habit, that helps me feel more secure.

This may not be where your dh is coming from. Or it may, but it may be
a lot harder for a man to admit it.

I took "school math" for 14 years and never hated it. However, I don't
persue or enjoy it now as a part of my life.

Betsy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/28/2001 9:06:36 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Priss1000@... writes:


> Have any of you dealt
>

Let's see - some options are:

Keep arguing so that time just goes by and, before you know it, it isn't an
issue any more because he's somehow or another grown up and is applying to
college and managed to score high on the math portion of the SAT <BEG>

Don't argue but just ignore dh's desires and go on with life. Agree with him
if you have to - "Yeah, maybe a math program would be a good idea," but just
never get around to it.

Get a simple-to-use math program and drag it out and get your son to do stuff
with it every once in a while - just enough to say, "Yeah, we use xyz
program."

Get a math program that is fun and that your son actually enjoys fooling
with. There are lots of good/great materials out there - if you do end up
doing some kind of math program, at least make it a good, fun one that
encourages exploration and investigation and thinking and is not ONLY
practice. OR -- get something really really really simple -- that is ONLY
practice, but relatively painless practice -- not too many problems and so
on. Don't think that is is "unschooling versus Saxon math" -- there are
things in between that might pacify your husband and be relatively harmless.

--pam


Pam Sorooshian
National Home Education Network <A HREF="http://nhen.org/default.html"><http://www.nhen.org></A>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Priss

--- In AlwaysLearning@y..., PSoroosh@a... wrote:

> Let's see - some options are:
>
> Keep arguing so that time just goes by and, before you know it, it
isn't an
> issue any more because he's somehow or another grown up and is
applying to
> college and managed to score high on the math portion of the SAT
<BEG>


I'll probably do this cause I can't help myself! But just now arguing
isn't a real good idea, dh is too edgy for some reason.

> Don't argue but just ignore dh's desires and go on with life. Agree
with him
> if you have to - "Yeah, maybe a math program would be a good idea,"
but just
> never get around to it.


Every so often dh wants to see papers "proving" we're doing math
regularly.

>
> Get a simple-to-use math program and drag it out and get your son
to do stuff
> with it every once in a while - just enough to say, "Yeah, we use
xyz
> program."


Unfortunately we have to show more than just a few pages when we do
them. More like many dated pages, ugh.

> Get a math program that is fun and that your son actually enjoys
fooling
> with. There are lots of good/great materials out there - if you do
end up
> doing some kind of math program, at least make it a good, fun one
that
> encourages exploration and investigation and thinking and is not
ONLY
> practice.

Do you have suggestions? We've been using Singapore math this year
though not nearly every day. It's not the worst ever but doesn't fit
your description above. Do you know of any that are like that
description? Glenn also plays with a lot of computer math programs
when he's in the mood for them, but he can go weeks and months
without being in the mood.


>OR -- get something really really really simple -- that is ONLY
> practice, but relatively painless practice -- not too many problems
and so
> on. Don't think that is is "unschooling versus Saxon math" -- there
are
> things in between that might pacify your husband and be relatively
harmless.
> --pam

He won't be pacified unless Glenn is beyond his grade level in math.
Something easier than that won't be enough. He was bitching the other
night that I wouldn't have Glenn ready for algebra next year. He
would be in fifth grade this year if he were in school. Algebra
doesn't seem to be something we need to rush into. But anyway, we
can't go too easy.

Thank you very much for the suggestions. Especially the idea that
there are things in between unschooling and very structured that
might work for us.

Priss

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/29/01 5:42:56 PM, Priss1000@... writes:

<< He was bitching the other
night that I wouldn't have Glenn ready for algebra next year. He
would be in fifth grade this year if he were in school. Algebra
doesn't seem to be something we need to rush into. But anyway, we
can't go too easy. >>

We like the Key to series ... they have fractions, decimals, measurement,
geometry and algebra -- fairly focused booklets that are easy to get through.
Tests. Answer books.

<A HREF="http://www.keypress.com/">http://www.keypress.com/</A>

Sharon

Tia Leschke

>
>He won't be pacified unless Glenn is beyond his grade level in math.
>Something easier than that won't be enough. He was bitching the other
>night that I wouldn't have Glenn ready for algebra next year. He
>would be in fifth grade this year if he were in school. Algebra
>doesn't seem to be something we need to rush into. But anyway, we
>can't go too easy.

Have you explored with him why it's so important that his son be so far
ahead of grade level in this one subject? It sounds to me like he's got
some baggage from the past. I'm reminded of some of the sports dads my
husband (the coach) has had to deal with. Guys who never went nearly as
far as they wanted to in their sport, but by God their son is going to do
it. I really feel for those poor kids.
Tia

Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
********************************************************************************************
It is the answers which separate us, the questions which unite us. - Janice
Levy

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/29/2001 2:42:49 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Priss1000@... writes:


> He was bitching the other
> night that I wouldn't have Glenn ready for algebra next year. He
> would be in fifth grade this year if he were in school. Algebra
> doesn't seem to be something we need to rush into. But anyway, we
>

Oh dear. I don't have time right now, or I'd go into a long rant about how
dangerous it is to push kids into algebra before they are 13 or 14 or 15 at
least. It is worse than counterproductive.

There is "algebraic thinking" - that is fine -- kids do it pretty naturally
anyway and it can be really satisfying and fun -- and there are ways for
parents who aren't skilled in this area to encourage it in their children,
but that is VERY different than formal algebra studied in a systematic,
standard way. I have super strong opinions that that is a major mistake to
start early. I'd try to find other mathematical things to do even for a kid
who was WANTING to study algebra -- there are so MANY other areas to explore
that are so much more appropriate and that a younger kid will get so much
more out of.

You know - we could probably flood this list with suggestions for math
programs -- and I'd, personally, probably enjoy it -- but I have to admit it
feels odd to do it here. Incongruent and risky (to use a couple of great math
terms <BEG>).

I'm always skittish about recommending stuff and having it be interpreted as
me recommending that parents pick a program and make the kids do it. Although
I've spent a lot of time looking at math resources, I think it is better,
truly BETTER, for a kid to do NO formal math if it is parent-pushed.

On the other hand, I always worry, too, about the fact that so many adults
have math anxiety/issues/phobias/hatred/fears/etc. that even unschooling
parents will, inadvertently, pass their own feelings along to their kids
without even realizing it. Kids aren't going to be following up on math stuff
that they might otherwise be interested in if they get negative vibes from
their parents -- math anxiety (generated by the way schools teach math) is
often manifested in avoidance -- people don't necessarily admit they have
math anxiety, they just go through life always avoiding math. Kids might pick
up on it being something to avoid. So sometimes I start thinking that a
really fun satisfying math program might be better than that -- since at
least the kids will have exposure and therefore the opportunity to get into
math if that is their inclination.

ANyway -- I've let myself get off the topic.
Yes -- I'll come up with some ideas for math programs that involve
investigation and exploration. I'll have to dig in my boxes of stuff -- I
have everything pack up because we're moving kids' bedrooms around right now.

--pam


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

On Thu, 29 Nov 2001 22:37:51 -0000 "Priss" <Priss1000@...> writes:
>
> Do you have suggestions? We've been using Singapore math this year
> though not nearly every day. It's not the worst ever but doesn't fit
> your description above. Do you know of any that are like that
> description? Glenn also plays with a lot of computer math programs
> when he's in the mood for them, but he can go weeks and months
> without being in the mood.

I'm not sure you can unschool and still make your dh happy, and maybe
it's as simple as that. If you believe that forcing/coercing/cajoling.
etc. your child to do some math papers or programs that he doesn't want
to do is wrong, then I guess I myself can't imagine doing it and feeling
right in my own skin. I've always been a single mom, so I have no
real-world experience with this and may be full of it... but there you
are.

One thing that I've done on occasion is just sit down and think about the
math that Cacie does as part of life. I think most of the computational
skills she's learned have been acquired through games - not "educational
games" but games where scorekeeping was required, like Rummy, Poker, 5
Crowns, Midnight Party, Yahtzee, Probe, Bazaar... she loves games. Today
we were at Chuck E Cheese with some friends, and her friend was trying to
figure out how many tickets she'd have if she added the ones she'd just
won, and then if she subtracted the price of a certain prize... and Cacie
just knew all of the answers instantly, she didn't even have to think
about it. She also does a lot of logic, algebra, and geometry stuff,
through games, software, brain teasers, life... it's generally not
labeled as such anywhere but it is. I have occasionally enumberated and
described all of these activities to well-meaning people who thought she
wasn't "doing any math", and it seemed to make an impression. One woman I
know kept a "math log" because she needed to document her son's math
studies for her charter school, and she just noted down anything she
could think of that he had done that involved any kind of math skills.
Some people are just accustomed to seeing something written out in black
and white, and any sort of documentation or "piece of paper" makes an
impression.

Thinking about all of this, I'm again amazed at how much Cacie can do,
how much she knows, and how effortless it all has been for her. I
sometimes imagine a world full of people realizing how years of their
lives were stolen from them by the public school system - it makes me
angry to think about it, I remember my school years mostly as very, very
boring, with me trying to do anything that would make the time pass
faster. If someone today gave me the gift of of 656 days (7 hours a day
times 12.5 years) to do with what I pleased, I can imagine so many
wonderful things to fill them with.

Dar
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
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Pam Hartley

***I'm not sure you can unschool and still make your dh happy, and maybe
it's as simple as that. If you believe that forcing/coercing/cajoling.
etc. your child to do some math papers or programs that he doesn't want
to do is wrong, then I guess I myself can't imagine doing it and feeling
right in my own skin. I've always been a single mom, so I have no
real-world experience with this and may be full of it... but there you
are.***

I have a similar lack of experience in that my husband is so calm about
unschooling. Granted, he had a long time to get used to the idea <g> as I
became rabidly unschoolish while pregnant with our first.

He's to the point now that I had to talk him into letting me do the "Reading
in 100 Easy Lessons" book with Brit. It did not sit well with his
conservative unschooling heart (or with mine either, I confess, but after a
lot of hashing we didn't see a better alternative for what she wanted and,
so far so good).

When we do disagree about child rearing, he's swayed by common sense (and I
hope I am, too <g>). If I've read a dozen books, talked to 20 people and
thought about something for weeks, he's not one to stomp around issuing
directives. And if he did, I'd suspect an adult temper tantrum and wouldn't
think of inconveniencing our daughters with it (though I would try to help
him work out what the real problem was so he'd feel better).

The answer to the problem husband may be to sit down with him and dig to the
real issue. What is he afraid will happen if there are no math lessons? If
he isn't willing to read about unschooling, unschooled math success stories,
post to a list like this or talk to people at unschooling.com, I would start
to question his right to be involved in the decision-making process until he
educated himself.

***One thing that I've done on occasion is just sit down and think about the
math that Cacie does as part of life. I think most of the computational
skills she's learned have been acquired through games - not "educational
games" but games where scorekeeping was required, like Rummy, Poker, 5
Crowns, Midnight Party, Yahtzee, Probe, Bazaar... she loves games.***

Ditto with Brittany. She likes the way numbers work, you can see her
enjoying it. She occasionally comes to me to report that 4+2 and 3+3 both
equal 6, or that when she's 23 her cousin (11 years older) will be 34.

Last night she wanted to know what came after thousands, then after
millions, then after billions, then after trillions, until I had to laugh
and say, "I don't know!" I guess I should go look it up and let her know.

I'm not afraid of arithmetic, but I am of higher math, because of my own
schooling, and I worry sometimes about being one of the parents PamS was
talking about who can turn their kids away from math without thinking about
it.

I try really hard not to let that influence me, and luckily my husband (and
his father, who we see a lot of) love math in all its incomprehensible (to
me) twists and turns. They amuse themselves by calling each other up with
stumper math questions, so Brit can see first hand that figuring these
things out and arguing about them is part of the fun.

Pam

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/29/01 3:43:41 PM Mountain Standard Time,
Priss1000@... writes:


> Every so often dh wants to see papers "proving" we're doing math
> regularly.
>

Then I like the recommendation that the husband be the math teacher.

OR you could do other things and you/mom write them up in mathematical
terminology.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Priss

--- In AlwaysLearning@y..., freeform@j... wrote:
>
>
> I'm not sure you can unschool and still make your dh happy, and
maybe
> it's as simple as that.

It probably is that simple, but I'm not ready to give up on either
the marriage/family or the idea of unschooling. I keep hoping that in
time my dh will come around to being suportive of unschooling even
math.

>If you believe that forcing/coercing/cajoling.
> etc. your child to do some math papers or programs that he doesn't
want
> to do is wrong, then I guess I myself can't imagine doing it and
feeling
> right in my own skin. I've always been a single mom, so I have no
> real-world experience with this and may be full of it... but there
you
> are.

I *don't* feel right about it, which is why I wrote the list. But I
don't do too much forcing. Glenn knows the situation and that life is
easier if we just get the math done some days. It's not a real
healthy situation, granted. But I'm not prepared to be a single mom,
especially with my dh in an ex-husband part time custodial parent
role if I were single. His need for control would very likely cause
even greater problems in a case like that. I'd rather compromise for
now on this issue and hope to find a way to really unschool someday.


> One thing that I've done on occasion is just sit down and think
about the
> math that Cacie does as part of life. I think most of the
computational
> skills she's learned have been acquired through games -
not "educational
> games" but games where scorekeeping was required, like Rummy,
Poker, 5
> Crowns, Midnight Party, Yahtzee, Probe, Bazaar... she loves games.
Today
> we were at Chuck E Cheese with some friends, and her friend was
trying to
> figure out how many tickets she'd have if she added the ones she'd
just
> won, and then if she subtracted the price of a certain prize... and
Cacie
> just knew all of the answers instantly, she didn't even have to
think
> about it. She also does a lot of logic, algebra, and geometry stuff,
> through games, software, brain teasers, life... it's generally not
> labeled as such anywhere but it is. I have occasionally enumberated
and
> described all of these activities to well-meaning people who
thought she
> wasn't "doing any math", and it seemed to make an impression. One
woman I
> know kept a "math log" because she needed to document her son's math
> studies for her charter school, and she just noted down anything she
> could think of that he had done that involved any kind of math
skills.
> Some people are just accustomed to seeing something written out in
black
> and white, and any sort of documentation or "piece of paper" makes
an
> impression.
>
> Thinking about all of this, I'm again amazed at how much Cacie can
do,
> how much she knows, and how effortless it all has been for her. I
> sometimes imagine a world full of people realizing how years of
their
> lives were stolen from them by the public school system - it makes
me
> angry to think about it, I remember my school years mostly as very,
very
> boring, with me trying to do anything that would make the time pass
> faster. If someone today gave me the gift of of 656 days (7 hours a
day
> times 12.5 years) to do with what I pleased, I can imagine so many
> wonderful things to fill them with.
>
> Dar

Thanks,Dar. Lots of good ideas in there.

Priss

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/29/2001 5:01:37 PM Pacific Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:


> > Every so often dh wants to see papers "proving" we're doing math
> > regularly.
> >
>
> Then I like the recommendation that the husband be the math teacher.

My husband would have taken me up on that - and he'd have TORTURED the kids.
I can just SEE it -- ack. He'd have given them worksheets to do while he was
at work and then he'd have graded it when he got home. He'd have been
impatient and annoyed when they didn't understand something and he'd have
inadvertently (because he's a really nice guy) have shamed them and made them
hate math. He wouldn't have understood their questions - there is a certain
art to grasping what it is somebody else isn't getting - and I can easily
imagine the tears that would fall.

I used the avoidance method -- we had a lot of math stuff around, so that
probably helped ease my dh's concerns (mostly the stuff was there because I'm
fascinated by it - but the kids play with it too, sometimes) and I would say,
casually, "Rosie had such a good math session today," without mentioning that
what I meant was that she'd played BlackJack for hours. Eventually my husband
caught on that we weren't really doing anything systematic or structured -
and either he's realized that the kids are clearly doing just fine or he's
just given up in order to preserve family peace - but he seems to realize
that they're learning and that it doesn't really matter if they learn
specific things at specific times. He's totally relaxed now. I think. I'm
not bringing it up, though. <g>

--pam


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Priss

--- In AlwaysLearning@y..., PSoroosh@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 11/29/2001 5:01:37 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> SandraDodd@a... writes:
>
>
> > > Then I like the recommendation that the husband be the math
teacher.
>
> My husband would have taken me up on that - and he'd have TORTURED
the kids.
> I can just SEE it -- ack. He'd have given them worksheets to do
while he was
> at work and then he'd have graded it when he got home. He'd have
been
> impatient and annoyed when they didn't understand something and
he'd have
> inadvertently (because he's a really nice guy) have shamed them and
made them
> hate math. He wouldn't have understood their questions - there is a
certain
> art to grasping what it is somebody else isn't getting - and I can
easily
> imagine the tears that would fall.

EXACTLY!! My husband would react pretty much like that if I suggested
such a thing to him. He can be a not very nice guy sometimes though.
It would probably be worse than your scenario! Not a situation I'd
ever put my son in.

> I used the avoidance method -- we had a lot of math stuff around,
so that
> probably helped ease my dh's concerns (mostly the stuff was there
because I'm
> fascinated by it - but the kids play with it too, sometimes) and I
would say,
> casually, "Rosie had such a good math session today," without
mentioning that
> what I meant was that she'd played BlackJack for hours. Eventually
my husband
> caught on that we weren't really doing anything systematic or
structured -
> and either he's realized that the kids are clearly doing just fine
or he's
> just given up in order to preserve family peace - but he seems to
realize
> that they're learning and that it doesn't really matter if they
learn
> specific things at specific times. He's totally relaxed now. I
think. I'm
> not bringing it up, though. <g>
>
> --pam
>
Thanks Pam. These kinds of ideas I can see could work with my dh. I
think I'll put into practice right away getting the jump on him by
telling him before he asks about our "good math sessions", LOL.
Sandra's suggestion about writing things up in mathmatical
terminology is probably a good one for this situation too. I can see
a ray of hope I think.

Priss

Cindy

Priss wrote:
>
> He won't be pacified unless Glenn is beyond his grade level in math.
> Something easier than that won't be enough. He was bitching the other
> night that I wouldn't have Glenn ready for algebra next year. He
> would be in fifth grade this year if he were in school. Algebra
> doesn't seem to be something we need to rush into. But anyway, we
> can't go too easy.
>

IMO fifth grade can be a bit early for algebra. Very few children
are cognitively ready for algebra in the 6th grade. If it helps any,
you can tell your husband that someone with a BS in math and an MS
in computer science (with a lot of math classes) thinks this.

--

Cindy Ferguson
crma@...

Priss

--- In AlwaysLearning@y..., Tia Leschke <leschke@i...> wrote:
>

> Have you explored with him why it's so important that his son be so
far
> ahead of grade level in this one subject? It sounds to me like
he's got
> some baggage from the past. I'm reminded of some of the sports
dads my
> husband (the coach) has had to deal with. Guys who never went
nearly as
> far as they wanted to in their sport, but by God their son is going
to do
> it. I really feel for those poor kids.
> Tia
>

We haven't explored this and it's a good point. One of the reasons my
husband had initially liked the idea of homeschooling was that our
son hadn't learned much of any math when he was in first grade in
public school. Once he was home he started picking it up pretty
easily. When we first started homeschooling, I didn't know much about
unschooling and from what little I did know I wasn't too interested.
So for his first two years of homeschooling I'd make up problems for
him to do, since I hadn't found a book/program that suited us. The
first year we did mostly mental math and using logic to arrive at
answers. Glenn did move ahead of his grade level with some facets of
arithmetic/computation. His dad liked that and probably assumed that
Glenn would always be ahead of his public schooled peers. I imagine
he's told people at work that Glenn did such and such as a third
grader or fourth grader or whatever. He's probably not ready to give
up that vision of his son to one of his son learning math at whatever
pace he wants to. I've seen a bit of the sports dad character in him,
it's probably a good comparison. We won't be inviting him to any more
karate belt exams, at least for a while :-(

Priss

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/29/01 5:09:55 PM Mountain Standard Time,
PSoroosh@... writes:


> Oh dear. I don't have time right now, or I'd go into a long rant about how
> dangerous it is to push kids into algebra before they are 13 or 14 or 15 at
> least. It is worse than counterproductive.
>

It would be nice if it didn't matter, but it probably will to the dad in
question:

Pam who wrote the wait-on-algebra information is "abd" (all but degree) or so
in math. She has a master's but not PhD (not quite but close, I think), and
she teaches college-level math.

So if someone without a math degree said algebra shouldn't be pushed, some
dads would probably snort and blow it by. If someone like Pam says it, they
might probably seriously consider what they said.

The irony is that it's not a math issue--it's a learning issue.

Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/29/01 6:24:37 PM Mountain Standard Time,
PSoroosh@... writes:


> He'd have given them worksheets to do while he was
>

That's not teaching.
That would be cheating.

My husband wrote a couple of long e-mails to someone about math in
unschooling a few weeks ago and I saved the first (on a computer now in the
shop) and didn't save the second. Was that someone here?? If so, and if
you kept them, would you be willing to post here what he wrote?

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Priss

--- In AlwaysLearning@y..., SandraDodd@a... wrote:
> My husband wrote a couple of long e-mails to someone about math in
> unschooling a few weeks ago and I saved the first (on a computer
now in the
> shop) and didn't save the second. Was that someone here?? If
so, and if
> you kept them, would you be willing to post here what he wrote?
>
> Sandra

It was me, and I kept the first one but somehow didn't save the
second. I went looking for both letters a couple of weeks ago,
wanting to reread what Keith said, and couldn't find that second
letter anywhere. Here is the first letter anyway:

*************************************
>>I don't know the ages of your children (or yourself or your
husband :) but it doesn't really matter. Think of your everyday
actions, then look at how they can be represented with math. Scaling
of cooking ingredients (ratios), boiling water (physics or
chemistry), bouncing a ball (physics), watching the moon circle the
earth (geometry), (as in why does a ball fall to earth but the moon
does not?). Find art with a protractor, compass, straight edge,
(like the Greeks) or just play with graph paper (geometry & trig).
Look for symetry in nature or man made artifacts (ratios again).
Look for applications of fractions (ratios, division,
combinatorics). Talk about the lottery or statistics in elections or
sports.

Algebra and calculus are abstractions to be delved into once you see
the need for modeling in the first place. Interest in "the need" I
find to be hinged on a budding interest in some tangible format. Do
they like architecture or engineering (mud pies to model planes)?
How about competitive puzzles (board games, cards, video games)? My
son (12) just finished reassembling a TV. (The picture was cutting
out.) He now knows that the insides are not some kind of magic. We
talked a little about circuits and assembly and troubleshooting. In
the process of finding the broken circuit, we talked about TV signals
and waveforms and how both audio and video came from the same
antenna. I didn't try to go into the math of electronics (really
complicated modeling), but he now is a little more interested in just
how that stuff works. It took him 3 days of putzing around with it,
(and a $20 part) and mostly all I did was encourage him to be careful
and take small steps.

I think the greatest thing I have learned from homeschooling, it the
fact that it is ok to say, "I don't know, let's find out." The other
side of that is being able to judge when the child is bored with the
subject and you can let it slide.

Good luck,
Keith

Elizabeth Hill

Pam Hartley wrote:

>
> Last night she wanted to know what came after thousands, then after
> millions, then after billions, then after trillions, until I had to
> laugh
> and say, "I don't know!" I guess I should go look it up and let her
> know.

_G is for Googol_ is a pretty cool math alphabet book. If your library
doesn't have it, you might want to ask them to get it.

Betsy


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[email protected]

In a message dated 11/30/01 10:12:25 AM Mountain Standard Time,
ecsamhill@... writes:


> _G is for Googol_ is a pretty cool math alphabet book. If your library
> doesn't have it, you might want to ask them to get it.
>

There's a paperback kids' book called (I think) How Much is a Million? (We
got it from Chinaberry.)

Sandra


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