Julie Stauffer

I wrote a couple of days ago about trying to get past the occasional
parental temper tantrum. Ren wrote back about feeling stressed when the
house was a mess. I finally figured it out last night. I had still been
hanging on to the notion that the kids "should" help me more around the
house. That my priorities "should" be their priorities. We didn't have
chore charts per se. We would have a meeting in the morning where we would
talk about what needed to get done that day and take turns picking what we
wanted to do. Less strident than a chore chart but required none-the-less.

I finally gave it up yesterday. Amid crying on my part, I realized that I
was sending negative energy into our home, aimed at my children, because of
a silly dirty house. What a relief to move past that. I feel liberated!!

So today, my kids have voluntarily cleaned up the mess from lunch, fixed
Michelle's hair, helped my find stamps, fed their animals and milked the
goats. I was able to look at my child and see the gift of their time and
energy that they were giving me and feel truly thankful. Not resentful that
there are STILL toys on the stairs and having that eclipse the good the kids
are doing.

Thanks again.

Julie--who finds her house just as messy or clean (depending on your
orientation) today as she did yesterday but finds herself and her children
much happier

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/31/02 11:47:00 AM, jnjstau@... writes:

<< Not resentful that
there are STILL toys on the stairs and having that eclipse the good the kids
are doing. >>

Toys on the stairs are Very Bad.

Sandra with the broken leg

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/31/02 1:48:23 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< Julie--who finds her house just as messy or clean (depending on your
orientation) today as she did yesterday but finds herself and her children
much happier >>

Yes. Same here. So all my tantrums were just useless fits that brought
negativity into our lives.
I agree with you.
I clean for myself now, not to "teach" them how to clean or make them feel
obligated.
It calms ME, but not them...so why stress?
And the house always looks the same, so why bother? Silly, but true.
Glad to hear of the freedom you are enjoying Julie!!

Ren

Nanci Kuykendall (Ingah)

> I clean for myself now, not to "teach" them how to clean or make
>them feel > obligated. > It calms ME, but not them...so why stress?
> Ren

Oh Shudder, that sounds like my mother: cleaning to "teach" the
children the "proper way things should be" and making them feel
obligated by her servitude and martyrdom. I have to fight the
tendancies I learned as a child as well, and am guilty of plenty of
tantrums when the kids were not toeing MY line for me. My mother
still does that with her grandkids, and it makes me ill. There is a
reason my kids do not go to their house much...

Nanci K.

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/31/02 4:21:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
starsuncloud@... writes:


> I clean for myself now, not to "teach" them how to clean or make them feel
> obligated.
> It calms ME, but not them...so why stress?

This is why *I* stress and maybe someone will have some feedbacvk for me.
I am the only one who cleans anything. The only one who does dishes, picks up
toys, trash, food, dishes, everything. The others in the house eat, get up
and go on to something else. They leave dishes scattered about, empty chip
bags all over. Clothing is taken off wherever, dropped ont he floor and left.
Wet towels are left on the beds, barn dirty clothes are lying on the floor,
toys are played with and left lying on the ground. Videos are taken out and
never put back, CD's are all over the place, The art supplies are used, paper
is cut into a million pieces and left scattered about. Dirty underwear is
left on the bathroom floor. The cat box is cleaned by no one but me, Closet
doors are opened and not shut. Basically we live in a pig sty. I spend my
days when we are at home cleaning and for a day it is livable, but that's
it.
I'm at my wit's end. I have asked for help and asked again. Not in a tantrum
way, but in a calm manner. Nothing.
I'm ready to require that the others have chores and stay on them until they
are done.
I just can't take this any more. I need help from them and for whatever
reason, they are not going to help. This is no longer an issue of my level of
clean Vs their level of clean. This has developed into a safety and health
issue.
I just don't know what to do.
Elissa





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

marji

At 09:25 11/1/02 -0500, Elissa wrote:
>I just can't take this any more. I need help from them and for whatever
>reason, they are not going to help. This is no longer an issue of my level of
>clean Vs their level of clean. This has developed into a safety and health
>issue.
>I just don't know what to do.

Elissa, this sounds like it's really frustrating you and pissing you off,
and understandably so. Do the other folks in your family know how much
this is bugging you? If you've been calm with them about it, they may not
fully appreciate the level of angst this is causing you.

I think it's good to be honest with the other people in our families about
our feelings when it comes to stuff like this. When I talk to Liam in an
honest way about my feelings without attacking him, he can sometimes be
helpful. He won't always take responsibility for cleaning up after
himself, but sometimes he will. But I tell him that I understand it
doesn't bother him, but I feel frustrated when...

I do know if I get angry with Liam and fly off the handle about how messy
it is and how I resent having to pick up after him, he just gets defensive
(rightfully so) and we get nowhere.

I hope this helps a little.

Marji

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/1/02 10:03:43 AM Eastern Standard Time,
marji@... writes:


> If you've been calm with them about it, they may not
> fully appreciate the level of angst this is causing you.
>
>
Trust me, they have seen the full extent of my unhappiness. The calm way came
because the tantrums weren't working
Elissa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

I have told them calmly and in a non-confrontative way.
They listen silently and then go about their lives.
I can't even talk to DH anymore, about anything because I am so angry about
this.
If I had my nursing license and could go to work tomorrow, I'd ask him to
leave.
I think he is purposely not helping. He's just as bad as the kids but since
he's an adult I expect a little more from him.
They see him not helping and so they don't help.
I just don't understand why they won't do anything and why they seem to not
care how upsetting this is for me.
Elissa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Shyrley

On 1 Nov 02, at 10:29, Earthmomma67@... wrote:

> I have told them calmly and in a non-confrontative way.
> They listen silently and then go about their lives.
> I can't even talk to DH anymore, about anything because I am so angry
> about this. If I had my nursing license and could go to work tomorrow,
> I'd ask him to leave. I think he is purposely not helping. He's just
> as bad as the kids but since he's an adult I expect a little more from
> him. They see him not helping and so they don't help. I just don't
> understand why they won't do anything and why they seem to not care
> how upsetting this is for me. Elissa
>
I feel for you Elissa. I have the same problem and feel like the
house skivvy sometimes. It's worse when I'm tired and in pain (I
have MS).
Sometimes I just lose it and shout and scream and miracuosly
everyone helps for about 2 days. I shouldn't need to explode like
that in order to get help.
Now that my daughter is 10 she is getting a tiny bit better but they
still don't put away after them, they leaves cups and dishes
wherever they finished eating, there are CD-Roms all over the floor
and DVD's. The cats would starve if I didn't feed them etc etc

DH does help when asked. He fails to notice cat shit in the sink
until *asked* to clean it up. He doesn't notice the trash tipping out
all over the floor until I wearily *ask* him to put the trash out.

Aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhh.

You need to come over girl and have a moan (if you close your
eyes and ignore the pig-sty that is).
I'm free next week.

Shyrley


"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."

Fetteroll

on 11/1/02 10:29 AM, Earthmomma67@... at Earthmomma67@... wrote:

> I have told them calmly and in a non-confrontative way.
> They listen silently and then go about their lives.

I think they're seeing this in a different way.

What if you were ranting and raving or talking calmly about spots on the
garage floor and how you worked and slaved at keeping it spotless and how no
one else cared. They just tracked muddy prints all over it and left the door
open for dead leaves to blow in.

Do you think you could convince them to see it your way?

Maybe start small. Say -- in a voice you'd use with a friend! -- "Could you
bring that cup into the kitchen with you?" "Could you put that back in the
case and on the shelf for me, please?" That "for me" is important since
you're asking them to do something that's important to you.

Ask one or more if they wouldn't mind helping you with a specific task, like
clearing off the coffee table or even a room if it's not like 2 hours worth
of work. And do it with them. It's lonely doing tasks alone. It sems to take
5 times the time.

Now that my daughter's 11, she's much more eager to help than she was.
She'll unload groceries from the car and unpack bags when 2 years ago when I
asked for help it was like I was asking her to hike Mt. Everest for me. ;-)

> I think he is purposely not helping. He's just as bad as the kids but since
> he's an adult I expect a little more from him.

Sincerely thanking him -- again, as you would a friend -- for help he does
do, will get more repeat help than making him feel like he's not living up
to your expectations. Turn it around and picture what it would be like if
you had to face constant disapproval at not meeting up with some
unreasonable expectations of his. It would suck out some of the joy of home.

Not that your expectations are unreasonable or that he's reasonable and
blameless. But getting into a mode of communicating that others aren't
meeting up with your standards will make any problems that are already there
worse. No one will want to put the effort into fixing the problems because
they're being shamed and forced into it.

If you're thinking leaving sounds attractive, it sounds like this deliberate
ignoring of things that bother you is just a symptom of something that goes
a whole lot deeper. Have you considered couples counseling?

Joyce

Pam Hartley

----------
>From: Earthmomma67@...
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Just wanted to thank you guys
>Date: Fri, Nov 1, 2002, 6:25 AM
>

> I'm at my wit's end. I have asked for help and asked again. Not in a tantrum
> way, but in a calm manner. Nothing.
> I'm ready to require that the others have chores and stay on them until they
> are done.
> I just can't take this any more. I need help from them and for whatever
> reason, they are not going to help. This is no longer an issue of my level of
> clean Vs their level of clean. This has developed into a safety and health
> issue.
> I just don't know what to do.


Do you ask generally or specifically?

"Hey, people, from now on I'm going to need help cleaning up this armpit of
a house! Try to help more, okay?"

or

"Beulah, will you please put these towels away when you have a minute?"

If the former, it probably won't work. If the latter, what is their answer?

If your child (or your husband) is flat-out saying, "No" to the latter, it's
a lot bigger problem than you being the only person in the house who
actually notices and cares when the trash gets to waist level.

How old are kids? What's with husband?

Pam, investigative cleaning reporter. <g>

Betsy

** Trust me, they have seen the full extent of my unhappiness. The calm
way came because the tantrums weren't working**

(I wrote the rest of this without having seen all of your posts.)

I'm sure *I* would have tantrums, too. Is there another parent in the
house? If so I know *I* would be a lot more upset at the lack of
contribution to housework from an adult partner than I would be a lack
of contribution from the kids. Especially if the adult is also throwing
clothes on the floor.

Some kids are messier than others. I didn't clean more than my friends,
but I was blessed with a kid that didn't throw stuff around at a rapid
rate. (And he was late with scissors so he didn't make paper "snow" constantly.)

Stuff that makes less mess than full-tilt art and toy projects: playing
outside (w/o mud), playing Nintendo, watching television, and
(sometimes) reading and being read to. Oh, let's not forget going to
other people's houses.

I also see a lot of variation between kids. A few kids are naturally
neat and always put the video back in the box, put both shoes together,
etc. If you have a few that are at the other end of the spectrum then
the amount of chaos must be daunting.

I don't think any kid can and will spontaneously clean a bedroom or
living room that looks like a bomb went off in it. I think it takes
years of teaching, modeling, and most importantly cleaning it up with
them before they are able to do much useful cleaning by themselves.
(And even then, I can't promise you that they will want to clean.)

WHATEVER YOU DO, don't use the tactics that your mother-in-law used to
teach your husband to do chores. Her methods sure don't seem to work.

Best wishes,
Betsy

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/1/2002 9:55:39 AM Central Standard Time,
shyrley.williams@... writes:

> DH does help when asked. He fails to notice cat shit in the sink
> until *asked* to clean it up. He doesn't notice the trash tipping out
> all over the floor until I wearily *ask* him to put the trash out.
>
>

If you're willing to remind at all, then I would think perhaps you should
remind more often, before it gets to the point that you can't stand it
anymore.

I have all men in my house, and I do a lot of reminding. Fortunately, I read
_How to talk so kids will listen..._ way early in my parenting time and so I
stick with one word reminders. For my adult kids who still live here (Jon
will be 18 in 5 days; Jake, 20, is off at boot camp), I make simple, specific
lists. They have always liked this method more than verbal reminders,
because it feels less like nagging to them. And it helps because I rarely
see them when they are working. I just tape it to their doors.

Over the years they've come to realize that it's just better to do the list
and pick up their shoes then to wait for me to meltdown. What I hate is that
I can never have a break. It's like, if I give myself permission to let my
laundry pile up for a few days, it gives *everyone* permission to let their
laundry pile up. There's no one to take up the initiative if I don't keep
on, although dh does do his share most of the time. Unless I am clearly not
carrying the load. Then he has permission to not to do so, either. Hate
that part. Can't quite describe it, either. Hope someone here understands
what I mean.

Jon has a real problem with laundry. It wasn't an issue when we had a big
house and he lived upstairs. I didn't go up there much, and when he needed
something to wear, he washed it first. Now he lives right next to the other
two bedrooms and the second bath, and shares it with his little brother. I
cannot stand to walk into that bathroom and see all the washcloths in the
bottom of the bathtub, and his pants and undies all over the floor, and then
see it in his bedroom, too.

So, I made a (temporary) deal with him. For my peace of mind, I'll do his
laundry--but he has to keep all his dirty clothes in a basket at all times.
He has to empty his pockets, and turn his socks right side out, too. So far
it's working. I told him I was training him, and that eventually he would be
learning to do his laundry, too. (He knows how to do laundry, but he has
trouble with organization.) Sometimes I feel icky that I'm still doing my 18
yo's laundry, and I wonder if I'll still be doing it when he's 25. But then
I remind myself that 18 is not a magic number and I try to relax.

Tuck



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/1/02 9:31:50 AM, pamhartley@... writes:

<< >From: Earthmomma67@...
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Just wanted to thank you guys
>Date: Fri, Nov 1, 2002, 6:25 AM
>

> I'm at my wit's end. I have asked for help and asked again. Not in a tantrum
> way, but in a calm manner. Nothing.
> I'm ready to require that the others have chores and stay on them until they
> are done.
> I just can't take this any more. I need help from them and for whatever
> reason, they are not going to help. This is no longer an issue of my level
of
> clean Vs their level of clean. This has developed into a safety and health
> issue.
> I just don't know what to do.

>>

I do not know how old your children are, but I believe that at a certain
point any human being should be resposible enough to clean up after
themselves to some reasonable degree. I am very familiar with how you are
feeling I think and I personally would seek some kind of good family
counseling. FAST. I say good because there is plenty of useless counseling
out there as far as I am concerned. This is not just your problem, and I
think the whole family needs to be invested in solutions.
Over the years this has been an issue for me that got worse and worse and
finally led to a break up. By the time I sought counseling it was really too
late. I felt like I was getting used up. Since two of the five people in
this house have moved out, things have really changed. It is really awful
that in order to relieve the burden it came to that. I hope you and your
family will turn this dynamic around. I will light a candle for you.

Jessica

Fetteroll

on 11/1/02 12:30 PM, Pam Hartley at pamhartley@... wrote:

> If your child (or your husband) is flat-out saying, "No" to the latter, it's
> a lot bigger problem than you being the only person in the house who
> actually notices and cares when the trash gets to waist level.

I meant to mention in what I said that if you ask, you have to accept that
no is an acceptable answer. You're asking them to help, not disguising a
command as a request. Maybe they're tired. Maybe they're in the middle of
something. Even if you don't think it's important.

But, if they're flat out saying no, just because they have no desire to help
you in particular, then, as Pam says, there's a bigger problem.

Joyce

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/1/2002 10:57:47 AM Central Standard Time,
fetteroll@... writes:

> Sincerely thanking him -- again, as you would a friend -- for help he does
> do, will get more repeat help than making him feel like he's not living up
> to your expectations. Turn it around and picture what it would be like if
> you had to face constant disapproval at not meeting up with some
> unreasonable expectations of his. It would suck out some of the joy of
> home.

Nobody here EVER thanks me for anything I do around the house. That's why I
want them to do their share of the apparently thankless job.

It's a real issue, and I can get upset over it. I always thank my dh when he
cooks a meal. No one ever thanks me. It's simply expected that I should do
it. And so I don't do it much, because I don't want it to be expected of me,
and not appreciated. I don't like being taken for granted.

Unfortunately, the desired outcome of me not cooking has not been realized.
They don't cook, they don't thank me when I do, they still accept meals when
I make them like they expect them. They're just dense hunks of testosterone
laden ingratitude.

I have vowed, however, to cook more for my own pleasure, and to save a little
money on eating out. It's an attitude adjustment...don't know how long it
will last.

Tuck


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nancy Wooton

on 11/1/02 10:01 AM, AlmondJoy721@... at AlmondJoy721@... wrote:

>

Hey, Jessica! You've found my favorite Unschooling playground!

(Jessica is a real-life face-to-face Park Day bud :-))) (I'll have to watch
my mouth now...)

Nancy

Tia Leschke

> Do you ask generally or specifically?
>
> "Hey, people, from now on I'm going to need help cleaning up this armpit
of
> a house! Try to help more, okay?"
>
> or
>
> "Beulah, will you please put these towels away when you have a minute?"

When I do this, Lars will agree. He just won't actually remember to do it
when he has a minute. And if I remind him, he treats it like nagging.
Tia

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/1/2002 12:28:55 PM Central Standard Time,
ikonstitcher@... writes:

> (Jessica is a real-life face-to-face Park Day bud :-))) (I'll have to watch
> my mouth now...)
>
>

When have you ever before?

Tuck


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. G. Bratton

We had a rough patch here at our place. The kids didn't do a lot. I
resorted to saying (not asking) "I'll know you ready for lunch when the
legos are put away," and other phrases like that. Then there is no
choice. I also explained to them that doing housework was part of being
in a family.
Things are not perfect but they are a lot better.
Catherine Bratton.

Tuckervill@... wrote:

> In a message dated 11/1/2002 10:57:47 AM Central Standard Time,
> fetteroll@... writes:
>
> > Sincerely thanking him -- again, as you would a friend -- for help
> he does
> > do, will get more repeat help than making him feel like he's not
> living up
> > to your expectations. Turn it around and picture what it would be
> like if
> > you had to face constant disapproval at not meeting up with some
> > unreasonable expectations of his. It would suck out some of the joy
> of
> > home.
>
> Nobody here EVER thanks me for anything I do around the house. That's
> why I
> want them to do their share of the apparently thankless job.
>
> It's a real issue, and I can get upset over it. I always thank my dh
> when he
> cooks a meal. No one ever thanks me. It's simply expected that I
> should do
> it. And so I don't do it much, because I don't want it to be expected
> of me,
> and not appreciated. I don't like being taken for granted.
>
>
> Tuck
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema

Imelda is my higher power.
She arrives in a blaze of glory every Tuesday and cleans my house from stem
to stern.
I kiss the ground she floats above.
May Imelda bless you all... especially Elissa!
Heidi
High Priestess of the Church of Imelda

C. G. Bratton

My husband and I have this thing where we don't actually say what we
want to each other. Now we are concentrating in doing just that. I
will hold all his mail out to him and tell him he needs to take it and
look it over now. Not a demand but reminder that I am not in charge of
his things and he needs to be. The same goes for me and the kids. I am
the worst about that in terms of getting my stuff put away. It took a
lot of energy in the beginning but now it works pretty well.
As a side note, my mother always said "If you don't want the answer to
be no, don't ask the question, give the direction."
My kids like being able to find their stuff on their own so we've gotten
much done.
Catherine Bratton


Tia Leschke wrote:

> > Do you ask generally or specifically?
> >
> > "Hey, people, from now on I'm going to need help cleaning up this
> armpit
> of
> > a house! Try to help more, okay?"
> >
> > or
> >
> > "Beulah, will you please put these towels away when you have a
> minute?"
>
> When I do this, Lars will agree. He just won't actually remember to
> do it
> when he has a minute. And if I remind him, he treats it like nagging.
>
> Tia
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Maybe start small. Say -- in a voice you'd use with a friend! -- "Could you
bring that cup into the kitchen with you?" "Could you put that back in the
case and on the shelf for me, please?" That "for me" is important since
you're asking them to do something that's important to you.

I have. They complain.

>
> Ask one or more if they wouldn't mind helping you with a specific task,
> like
> clearing off the coffee table or even a room if it's not like 2 hours worth
> of work. And do it with them. It's lonely doing tasks alone. It seems to
> take
> 5 times the time.

They do mind though. They say no.

>
> Now that my daughter's 11, she's much more eager to help than she was.
> She'll unload groceries from the car and unpack bags when 2 years ago when
> I
> asked for help it was like I was asking her to hike Mt. Everest for me. ;-)

My 9yo helps when I ask. She is trying. My 14 yo doesn't at all and my 42 yo
tells me no.

>
> > I think he is purposely not helping. He's just as bad as the kids but
> since
> > he's an adult I expect a little more from him.
>
> But getting into a mode of communicating that others aren't
> meeting up with your standards will make any problems that are already
> there
> worse. No one will want to put the effort into fixing the problems because
> they're being shamed and forced into it.

I don't care about my standards being met. I care about the prevailing
attitude that it's all my job.


>
> If you're thinking leaving sounds attractive, it sounds like this
> deliberate
> ignoring of things that bother you is just a symptom of something that goes
> a whole lot deeper. Have you considered couples counseling?

Been there done that. I;ve asked repeatedly for him to show me that he is
concerned about our relationship and to find out from his work about
counseling. He hasn't done anything. I have no problem getting myself
counseling but if he's not interested in going, then he's not interested in
having a healthy relationship. I'm having a hard time seeing it any other
way.

Elissa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/1/02 12:31:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ecsamhill@... writes:

>
> I'm sure *I* would have tantrums, too. Is there another parent in the
> house? If so I know *I* would be a lot more upset at the lack of
> contribution to housework from an adult partner than I would be a lack
> of contribution from the kids. Especially if the adult is also throwing
> clothes on the floor.

This is what bothers me the most. He is throwing clothes onteh floor, making
messes and not cleaning up.

>
>
> Stuff that makes less mess than full-tilt art and toy projects: playing
> outside (w/o mud), playing Nintendo, watching television, and
> (sometimes) reading and being read to. Oh, let's not forget going to
> other people's houses.
>

Oh we do all that. Unfortunately, there is no place for my kids to go
outside, we are living in a 4 room apartment (one bedroom, one dining room
made into a combination art room and bedroom, a living room and a kitchen)
(and bath!) The building we live in is very child UNfriendly and there is no
place to play.

> I also see a lot of variation between kids. A few kids are naturally
> neat and always put the video back in the box, put both shoes together,
> etc. If you have a few that are at the other end of the spectrum then
> the amount of chaos must be daunting.
>

They're ALL at that end! LOL

>
> WHATEVER YOU DO, don't use the tactics that your mother-in-law used to
> teach your husband to do chores. Her methods sure don't seem to work.

I don't think that's me. My MIL passed away from lung cancer before I met
Joe.
She probably didn't have him clean at all.

>
> Best wishes,
> Betsy
>
Thanks .
Elissa



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nancy Wooton

on 11/1/02 10:38 AM, Tuckervill@... at Tuckervill@... wrote:

>> (Jessica is a real-life face-to-face Park Day bud :-))) (I'll have to watch
>> my mouth now...)
>>
>>
>
> When have you ever before?

HEY! wait, you're right.... damn. I have delusions of niceness. Jessica
knows better, anyway; she's on the local hsers list I recently QUIT
MODERATING so's I could be myself for a change.

Nancy


--
I WILL NOT GREASE THE MONKEY BARS
--Bart Simpson

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/1/02 12:32:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,
pamhartley@... writes:


>
> Do you ask generally or specifically?

Both.




>
> "Hey, people, from now on I'm going to need help cleaning up this armpit of
> a house! Try to help more, okay?"
>
> or
>
> "Beulah, will you please put these towels away when you have a minute?"
>
> If the former, it probably won't work. If the latter, what is their answer?

They say no, sometimes simply like that, "No." Sometimes "In a minute" and
don't ever help. Sometimes by complaining loudly and consistently and just
sitting there until I get distracted and they walk away.

>
> If your child (or your husband) is flat-out saying, "No" to the latter,
> it's
> a lot bigger problem than you being the only person in the house who
> actually notices and cares when the trash gets to waist level.

Yes, I agree. I plan on talking to Joe tonight. We are going out to dinner.

>
> How old are kids?

14 yob almost 9 yog and 3 yob

What's with husband?
I wish I knew! He's becoming his father.
>
>
> Pam, investigative cleaning reporter. <g>

Thanks,
Elissa





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nancy Wooton

on 11/1/02 10:44 AM, Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema at heidi@... wrote:

> Imelda is my higher power.
<snip>
> I kiss the ground she floats above.

Do you leave her offerings of shoes?

;-) Nancy

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/1/02 10:29:36 AM, ikonstitcher@... writes:

<< Hey, Jessica! You've found my favorite Unschooling playground!(Jessica is
a real-life face-to-face Park Day bud :-))) (I'll have to watch
my mouth now...)

>>

Way too late Nancy, I have been here for months watching already.
:::giggle:::
Please don't tell that so far I am a subversive and as yet nonunschooler, who
keeps hoping that something will rub off that seems important to understand.
I really like this group. I hope no one will mind my lurking.
Jessica
(who is a little lost and trying to find her real self)

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/1/02 1:12:26 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Tuckervill@... writes:


> Nobody here EVER thanks me for anything I do around the house. That's why I
>
> want them to do their share of the apparently thankless job.
>
> It's a real issue, and I can get upset over it. I always thank my dh when
> he
> cooks a meal. No one ever thanks me. It's simply expected that I should
> do
> it. And so I don't do it much, because I don't want it to be expected of
> me,
> and not appreciated. I don't like being taken for granted.
>
>

This is probably most of what I'm feeling. When I left work just before Max
was born, it was with the agreement that my "job" was homeschooling the kids.
I spend alot of time on that. I feel as if our agreement has been nullified
because dh has decided what he wants to do. He thinks now that this is all my
job. I never agreed to that.
When I have told him this he just says he works and there fore he shouldn't
have to help at all.
Elissa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/1/02 12:02:22 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< I'm at my wit's end. I have asked for help and asked again. Not in a
tantrum
way, but in a calm manner. Nothing.
I'm ready to require that the others have chores and stay on them until they
are done.
I just can't take this any more. I need help from them and for whatever
reason, they are not going to help. This is no longer an issue of my level
of
clean Vs their level of clean. This has developed into a safety and health
issue.
I just don't know what to do. >>

I think it's time for a temper tantrum!! lol
I don't hide it from my kids when I'm getting stressed, I do try to be calm
but sometimes they have repeatedly ignored pleas for help and I want them to
know it bugs me.
Usually, they will help without being asked, but not necessarily in the way I
think it should be done. That's fine.
I ask them to rinse their dishes when they are done eating so when I wash
them it isn't hard to do. If they forget too much, I might say something like
"I am really getting upset that nobody is rinsing their dishes, maybe you
guys would like to wash them so you understand why I like it!!"
And if things are a total disaster, I'm not willing to leave sometimes.
I make it simple though, "let's do a quick 10 minute clean up before we
leave" is easier for them to handle.
We had to leave a huge mess this morning. It was the whole trick or treat
mess from last night and being up late (as usual), Trevor had a Doctor
appointment this morning and it's enough to just get four small people fed
and ready to go without worrying about mess.
When we got home I suggested that they find a good movie to watch and I
started doing dishes.
I cooked some lunch in between putting dishes away, and served it to them
while they watched the movie.
Trevor had been a little traumatized by having the Doctor check his privates
(necessary due to pain during urination) so I cooked him some major comfort
food....fried potatoes and scrambled eggs.....and he was very grateful.
I have no problem standing up for my needs. I just try to be sure I'm not
forcing my needs to be someone elses, I am fine however with trying to point
out that my needs are important too, and I try to meet their needs so HELP ME
OUT HERE!!
:)

Ren