math manipulatives
:o) Nicole Bybee
<<I'd HIGHLY recommend the Miquan Math program with the cuisennaire rods. Go to Key Curriculum Press for all the details >>
Thank you, I'll check it out!
Nicole
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thank you, I'll check it out!
Nicole
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
LeaAnn
http://matti.usu.edu/nlvm/nav/topic_t_1.html
There is an interactive geoboard here along with many other things. My kids liked the mastermind type thingys. I was sitting here playing wih it and pretty soon they were all here wanting to do it. There went my computer time even though they all have their own. It's kinda like sleeping in my bed, it's more fun on my computer. Probably cause I have a laptop and they can run me off of the chair! lol.
LeaAnn
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There is an interactive geoboard here along with many other things. My kids liked the mastermind type thingys. I was sitting here playing wih it and pretty soon they were all here wanting to do it. There went my computer time even though they all have their own. It's kinda like sleeping in my bed, it's more fun on my computer. Probably cause I have a laptop and they can run me off of the chair! lol.
LeaAnn
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Elizabeth Roberts
Thanks for passing this along! I bookmarked it, and will show it to Sarah later. She really likes doing things on the computer. Although, I didn't see the geoboard...maybe I was looking in the wrong place? Which one is it?
Elizabeth
LeaAnn <rootdigger@...> wrote:
http://matti.usu.edu/nlvm/nav/topic_t_1.html
There is an interactive geoboard here along with many other things. My kids liked the mastermind type thingys. I was sitting here playing wih it and pretty soon they were all here wanting to do it. There went my computer time even though they all have their own. It's kinda like sleeping in my bed, it's more fun on my computer. Probably cause I have a laptop and they can run me off of the chair! lol.
LeaAnn
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Elizabeth
LeaAnn <rootdigger@...> wrote:
http://matti.usu.edu/nlvm/nav/topic_t_1.html
There is an interactive geoboard here along with many other things. My kids liked the mastermind type thingys. I was sitting here playing wih it and pretty soon they were all here wanting to do it. There went my computer time even though they all have their own. It's kinda like sleeping in my bed, it's more fun on my computer. Probably cause I have a laptop and they can run me off of the chair! lol.
LeaAnn
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joylyn
Today Janene (age five) and I went to the store. Our usually thing is
that she helps shops, helps choose things, etc. but that she also gets
to choose one thing I might otherwise not buy, as her "treat". She
wanted Kiwi fruit. OK that was fine, not her treat though cause it was
for the family. I got captain crunchy berries, cause it was on sale, as
my treat, but I'll get one bowl probably cause the kids like it too.
She wanted strawberries, or blueberries, but they were very expensive,
so we spent about five minutes "pounding them" and the Janene decided
she's wait for them to be in season so she could get more for her
money. The pounding comment was cute. As we were discussing the cost
of the various berries, she wanted to weigh them so she said "I'll just
pound these so we can figure out how much money they cost." At one
point she picked out cocoa puffs for her treat. She didn't know whether
to get that one or another equally repulsive (in my eyes) cereal, and
asked for my opinion and I told her they were both repulsive and I would
not be sharing them with her so she needed to get what pleased herself.
She did, she got Cocoa Puffs. As we moved through the store she'd see
something else she wanted but would debate the merits of the new item
and Cocoa Puffs and then stuck with Cocoa puffs--Until we got to the
cheese section. There she found some cheese shaped in wild animal
shapes. We couldn't find a price and she decided to wait until we had a
price before deciding upon the cheese or the cocoa puffs. At the check
out counter she saw some ring suckers and seriously considered those as
her treat. We got the price for the cheese and she wavered back and
forth until she decided to get--the cheese. It's not the best cheese,
but it's cheese. Everyone in line got a kick out of the child who
picked cheese over chocolate cereal, and didn't get when I explained
that in her mind all food is equal.
THe "Pound it" comment really made me laugh though. I had another ctts
from a student today similar to that. He was writing a paragraph and
said that soccer was good because it was good excersize and you got to
"do a lot of verbs."
I read it and read it. What did he mean. I finially figured it out.
Verbs are action words, and soccer is an active sport. You get to be
active. So I just suggested that instead of saying it like that,
instead he use specific verbs like run and kick.
I don't think I'll ever forget that though, never quite thought I'd hear
the word verb used in quite that way.
Joylyn
that she helps shops, helps choose things, etc. but that she also gets
to choose one thing I might otherwise not buy, as her "treat". She
wanted Kiwi fruit. OK that was fine, not her treat though cause it was
for the family. I got captain crunchy berries, cause it was on sale, as
my treat, but I'll get one bowl probably cause the kids like it too.
She wanted strawberries, or blueberries, but they were very expensive,
so we spent about five minutes "pounding them" and the Janene decided
she's wait for them to be in season so she could get more for her
money. The pounding comment was cute. As we were discussing the cost
of the various berries, she wanted to weigh them so she said "I'll just
pound these so we can figure out how much money they cost." At one
point she picked out cocoa puffs for her treat. She didn't know whether
to get that one or another equally repulsive (in my eyes) cereal, and
asked for my opinion and I told her they were both repulsive and I would
not be sharing them with her so she needed to get what pleased herself.
She did, she got Cocoa Puffs. As we moved through the store she'd see
something else she wanted but would debate the merits of the new item
and Cocoa Puffs and then stuck with Cocoa puffs--Until we got to the
cheese section. There she found some cheese shaped in wild animal
shapes. We couldn't find a price and she decided to wait until we had a
price before deciding upon the cheese or the cocoa puffs. At the check
out counter she saw some ring suckers and seriously considered those as
her treat. We got the price for the cheese and she wavered back and
forth until she decided to get--the cheese. It's not the best cheese,
but it's cheese. Everyone in line got a kick out of the child who
picked cheese over chocolate cereal, and didn't get when I explained
that in her mind all food is equal.
THe "Pound it" comment really made me laugh though. I had another ctts
from a student today similar to that. He was writing a paragraph and
said that soccer was good because it was good excersize and you got to
"do a lot of verbs."
I read it and read it. What did he mean. I finially figured it out.
Verbs are action words, and soccer is an active sport. You get to be
active. So I just suggested that instead of saying it like that,
instead he use specific verbs like run and kick.
I don't think I'll ever forget that though, never quite thought I'd hear
the word verb used in quite that way.
Joylyn
Elizabeth Roberts
"THe "Pound it" comment really made me laugh though. I had another ctts from a student today similar to that. He was writing a paragraph and said that soccer was good because it was good excersize and you got to
"do a lot of verbs."
Could he be familiar with that Verb.com commercial? "Verb, it's what you do" or something like that is the way it goes...shows shadow-figures running, skating, jumping, etc.
Sarah picked up on that right away when it first came out, and truly understands what a verb is now LOL!
Elizabeth in MA
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"do a lot of verbs."
Could he be familiar with that Verb.com commercial? "Verb, it's what you do" or something like that is the way it goes...shows shadow-figures running, skating, jumping, etc.
Sarah picked up on that right away when it first came out, and truly understands what a verb is now LOL!
Elizabeth in MA
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[email protected]
** THe "Pound it" comment really made me laugh though. I had another ctts
from a student today similar to that. He was writing a paragraph and
said that soccer was good because it was good excersize and you got to
"do a lot of verbs."
I read it and read it. What did he mean. I finially figured it out.
Verbs are action words, and soccer is an active sport. You get to be
active. So I just suggested that instead of saying it like that,
instead he use specific verbs like run and kick.
I don't think I'll ever forget that though, never quite thought I'd hear
the word verb used in quite that way.**
There's a series of public service ads currently running on channels showing
children's programming, with the tag line "Verb. It's what you do." Apparently
their purpose is to encourage children to excercise more and watch tv less.
There's a website at http://www.verbnow.com/ ("Click a button and learn how
to do cool verbs!") There are school programs, too. Your tax dollars at work.
:)
Deborah in IL
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
from a student today similar to that. He was writing a paragraph and
said that soccer was good because it was good excersize and you got to
"do a lot of verbs."
I read it and read it. What did he mean. I finially figured it out.
Verbs are action words, and soccer is an active sport. You get to be
active. So I just suggested that instead of saying it like that,
instead he use specific verbs like run and kick.
I don't think I'll ever forget that though, never quite thought I'd hear
the word verb used in quite that way.**
There's a series of public service ads currently running on channels showing
children's programming, with the tag line "Verb. It's what you do." Apparently
their purpose is to encourage children to excercise more and watch tv less.
There's a website at http://www.verbnow.com/ ("Click a button and learn how
to do cool verbs!") There are school programs, too. Your tax dollars at work.
:)
Deborah in IL
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
LeaAnn
Elizabeth,
Here's the link to the board.
http://www.matti.usu.edu/nlvm/nav/frames_asid_125_g_1_t_3.html
<Although, I didn't see the geoboard...maybe I was looking in the wrong place? Which one is it?
Elizabeth>
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Here's the link to the board.
http://www.matti.usu.edu/nlvm/nav/frames_asid_125_g_1_t_3.html
<Although, I didn't see the geoboard...maybe I was looking in the wrong place? Which one is it?
Elizabeth>
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sonyacurti
--- In [email protected], "LeaAnn"
<rootdigger@c...> wrote:
unschooled / homeschooled them all of their lives. She is a wealth
of information for me. Anyway, she recently recommended this
wonderful book to me called "Math Power" by Patricia Clark Kenschaft.
********How to Help Your Child Love Math, Even If You Don't**********
I have not read it in it all the way through. I'm only on chapter 1
and I read something I thought was interesting that I thought I
would share.
"A supportive family is the single most important factor in the
intellectual success of their offspring, even if the parents have
only a fourth grade education and regardless of wether they remained
married throughout the youngster's childhood." she also states
that "Children are born with entusiasm for math and Every parent and
caretaker can help preserve young children's innate enthusiasm."
I always appreciate what others pass along on this site so I thought
I would share what I think may intrest you.
Thanks,
Sonya
<rootdigger@c...> wrote:
>the wrong place? Which one is it?
>
> Elizabeth,
> Here's the link to the board.
> http://www.matti.usu.edu/nlvm/nav/frames_asid_125_g_1_t_3.html
>
> <Although, I didn't see the geoboard...maybe I was looking in
>with no problem. I have a friend who has four children and has
> Elizabeth>
>
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> That was a very cool site - thanks !! I liked it and fouind it
unschooled / homeschooled them all of their lives. She is a wealth
of information for me. Anyway, she recently recommended this
wonderful book to me called "Math Power" by Patricia Clark Kenschaft.
********How to Help Your Child Love Math, Even If You Don't**********
I have not read it in it all the way through. I'm only on chapter 1
and I read something I thought was interesting that I thought I
would share.
"A supportive family is the single most important factor in the
intellectual success of their offspring, even if the parents have
only a fourth grade education and regardless of wether they remained
married throughout the youngster's childhood." she also states
that "Children are born with entusiasm for math and Every parent and
caretaker can help preserve young children's innate enthusiasm."
I always appreciate what others pass along on this site so I thought
I would share what I think may intrest you.
Thanks,
Sonya
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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>
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>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pam sorooshian
My very very top number one most recommended math book for
homeschooling parents!!!! Glad to hear others feel the same way.
I spoke with Pat Kenschaft, the author, about the possibility of a new
edition or at least a reprint. She is a university professor and busy
with other work and says she can't get a publisher because, even though
her book did very very well, it isn't marketed to an audience that is a
recognized target audience for publishers - it isn't really for
homeschoolers, but for parents, and publishers feel like few parents
care about educating their own children. I suggested some publishers
and that she look at those publishers who put out homeschooling books
(Prima, for example). She was going to look into them - hope she does.
In the meantime, it is out of print but still available here and there.
I bought it brand new in a bookstore just this past August.
I'll be taking a lot of her ideas and slowly, but surely, putting them
on my math blog. There is not a whole lot there yet, but there is some,
and I'm working on it pretty steadily.
<http://homepage.mac.com/pamsoroosh/iblog/index.html>
-pam
homeschooling parents!!!! Glad to hear others feel the same way.
I spoke with Pat Kenschaft, the author, about the possibility of a new
edition or at least a reprint. She is a university professor and busy
with other work and says she can't get a publisher because, even though
her book did very very well, it isn't marketed to an audience that is a
recognized target audience for publishers - it isn't really for
homeschoolers, but for parents, and publishers feel like few parents
care about educating their own children. I suggested some publishers
and that she look at those publishers who put out homeschooling books
(Prima, for example). She was going to look into them - hope she does.
In the meantime, it is out of print but still available here and there.
I bought it brand new in a bookstore just this past August.
I'll be taking a lot of her ideas and slowly, but surely, putting them
on my math blog. There is not a whole lot there yet, but there is some,
and I'm working on it pretty steadily.
<http://homepage.mac.com/pamsoroosh/iblog/index.html>
-pam
On Nov 8, 2003, at 6:55 AM, sonyacurti wrote:
> Anyway, she recently recommended this
> wonderful book to me called "Math Power" by Patricia Clark Kenschaft.
> ********How to Help Your Child Love Math, Even If You Don't**********
> I have not read it in it all the way through. I'm only on chapter 1
> and I read something I thought was interesting that I thought I
> would share.
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
joylyn
DACunefare@... wrote:
Joylyn
> There's a series of public service ads currently running on channelsWow, wonder if that's where he got this?
> showing
> children's programming, with the tag line "Verb. It's what you do."
> Apparently
> their purpose is to encourage children to excercise more and watch tv
> less.
> There's a website at http://www.verbnow.com/ ("Click a button and
> learn how
> to do cool verbs!") There are school programs, too. Your tax dollars
> at work.
> :)
Joylyn
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Deborah in IL
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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Elizabeth Roberts
Has anyone else read this? I'm about halfway through and it's about sickening. I am SO glad that my kids are not going to go through the drivel being passed off as education within government schools.
Elizabeth in MA
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[email protected]
In a message dated 11/9/2003 9:25:58 AM Central Standard Time,
mamabethuscg@... writes:
course, was it's intent.
Elizabeth in IL
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mamabethuscg@... writes:
> Has anyone else read this?I read it a couple of months ago and it scared the crap out of me. Which, of
course, was it's intent.
Elizabeth in IL
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/9/03 8:25:33 AM, mamabethuscg@... writes:
<< Has anyone else read this? I'm about halfway through and it's about
sickening. I am SO glad that my kids are not going to go through the drivel being
passed off as education within government schools. >>
I'm guessing you tried to forward a link.
If it's really interesting, send us a short excerpt. If it's not really
interesting and doesn't help people get to unschooling, can we skip it maybe?
YES, school's depressing. It's as depressing as watching the news, and I'd
hate for this list to turn to school-bashing.
Sandra
<< Has anyone else read this? I'm about halfway through and it's about
sickening. I am SO glad that my kids are not going to go through the drivel being
passed off as education within government schools. >>
I'm guessing you tried to forward a link.
If it's really interesting, send us a short excerpt. If it's not really
interesting and doesn't help people get to unschooling, can we skip it maybe?
YES, school's depressing. It's as depressing as watching the news, and I'd
hate for this list to turn to school-bashing.
Sandra
[email protected]
What is it? What's it about public school? Laura
***************************************
course, was it's intent.
Elizabeth in IL
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
***************************************
>>>I read it a couple of months ago and it scared the crap out of me. Which,of
course, was it's intent.
Elizabeth in IL
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Sandra, I'd say the Ravitch book is not school-bashing, more of an
expose of the children's publishing industry and how centralized and homogenized
it's become --
It's probably wise for all us unschoolers to realize what's happening
and why. Then when confronted with the results, we can help our children see
and understand it, too. We ALL have to live in the society that's being created
by such artificial controls on divergent thinking.
Not to say we need a big discussion of it here, though. In the spring
I posted several news articles about the Language Police and also a link to
the National Public Radio interview with the author, about these issues and how
she came to write the book. Those interested can check out NHEN's forums in a
thread called, "What's in a Name? Politics!"
http://www.nhen.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=386
(info excerpt from one article)
April 20, 2003
What Dick and Jane can't read
Chicago Sun-Times
BY HENRY KISOR, BOOK EDITOR
'Cancel the kitchen scraps for lepers and orphans, no more merciful
beheadings and call off Christmas!"
You'll never read that delicious line from "Robin Hood, Prince of
Thieves"--or even its components "lepers," "orphans," "beheadings" and "Christmas"--in
America's textbooks and standardized school tests. The sensitivity police of
American educational publishing, as rigid and ill-tempered as the sheriff of
Nottingham, won't allow it. To them those words are just too controversial.
Nor will you see in your children's textbooks such things as "birthday cake,"
"hot dog," "fireman," "brotherhood," "you and your wife," "England ruled the
seas, her navy was huge," "the deaf," "mentally ill," "the elderly," "bitch"
(in reference to a female dog), "first baseman," "Chief Sitting Bull" and even
"bookworm." Why, you can't refer to Africans as slaves or Jews as classical
musicians.
(snip)
You can't mention George Washington Carver's work with peanuts or Mary McLeod
Bethune's National Association for Colored Women. You can't breathe a word
about magic, witchcraft, family conflict, sexuality, satanism, evolution, the
supernatural, Mount Rushmore, owls, God, or Harry Potter.
Why? Somebody somewhere might be sorely wounded by references to what some
people consider possibly offensive words, stereotypes, subversive concepts or
foods they consider bad for you. (And you must call Sitting Bull by his Lakota
name, which, as everyone knows, is Totanka Iotanka.)
As a result, writes Diane Ravitch in The Language Police: How Pressure Groups
Restrict What Students Learn (Knopf, $24), America's children increasingly
can't read and can't think and can't (until very recently, thanks to television,
not the schools) find Iraq on a map. The textbooks they read and the tests
they take have been so completely expurgated, sanitized and bowdlerized by
self-righteous busybodies on both Left and Right that they're bland, boring,
simplistic and unreadable, purged of ideas and images that might stir independent
thought.
Ravitch, an academic and assistant secretary of education in the first Bush
administration, is a conservative, but liberals will find her remarkably
even-handed. She spanks not only civil rights firebrands and extreme feminists but
also the Christian Right for smothering the American classroom with their
zealous demands for censorship. The Left wants schools to teach "an idealized
vision of the future"; the Right wants schools to teach "an idealized vision of the
past." And nobody seems to want the world taught as it actually is--with
depth, complexity and subtlety.
(JJ's note - well, nobody except all of us at NHEN. Maybe this could be our
new public frame, that only home education makes it possible to teach the world
with depth, complexity and subtlety! <g>)
SandraDodd@... writes:
expose of the children's publishing industry and how centralized and homogenized
it's become --
It's probably wise for all us unschoolers to realize what's happening
and why. Then when confronted with the results, we can help our children see
and understand it, too. We ALL have to live in the society that's being created
by such artificial controls on divergent thinking.
Not to say we need a big discussion of it here, though. In the spring
I posted several news articles about the Language Police and also a link to
the National Public Radio interview with the author, about these issues and how
she came to write the book. Those interested can check out NHEN's forums in a
thread called, "What's in a Name? Politics!"
http://www.nhen.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=386
(info excerpt from one article)
April 20, 2003
What Dick and Jane can't read
Chicago Sun-Times
BY HENRY KISOR, BOOK EDITOR
'Cancel the kitchen scraps for lepers and orphans, no more merciful
beheadings and call off Christmas!"
You'll never read that delicious line from "Robin Hood, Prince of
Thieves"--or even its components "lepers," "orphans," "beheadings" and "Christmas"--in
America's textbooks and standardized school tests. The sensitivity police of
American educational publishing, as rigid and ill-tempered as the sheriff of
Nottingham, won't allow it. To them those words are just too controversial.
Nor will you see in your children's textbooks such things as "birthday cake,"
"hot dog," "fireman," "brotherhood," "you and your wife," "England ruled the
seas, her navy was huge," "the deaf," "mentally ill," "the elderly," "bitch"
(in reference to a female dog), "first baseman," "Chief Sitting Bull" and even
"bookworm." Why, you can't refer to Africans as slaves or Jews as classical
musicians.
(snip)
You can't mention George Washington Carver's work with peanuts or Mary McLeod
Bethune's National Association for Colored Women. You can't breathe a word
about magic, witchcraft, family conflict, sexuality, satanism, evolution, the
supernatural, Mount Rushmore, owls, God, or Harry Potter.
Why? Somebody somewhere might be sorely wounded by references to what some
people consider possibly offensive words, stereotypes, subversive concepts or
foods they consider bad for you. (And you must call Sitting Bull by his Lakota
name, which, as everyone knows, is Totanka Iotanka.)
As a result, writes Diane Ravitch in The Language Police: How Pressure Groups
Restrict What Students Learn (Knopf, $24), America's children increasingly
can't read and can't think and can't (until very recently, thanks to television,
not the schools) find Iraq on a map. The textbooks they read and the tests
they take have been so completely expurgated, sanitized and bowdlerized by
self-righteous busybodies on both Left and Right that they're bland, boring,
simplistic and unreadable, purged of ideas and images that might stir independent
thought.
Ravitch, an academic and assistant secretary of education in the first Bush
administration, is a conservative, but liberals will find her remarkably
even-handed. She spanks not only civil rights firebrands and extreme feminists but
also the Christian Right for smothering the American classroom with their
zealous demands for censorship. The Left wants schools to teach "an idealized
vision of the future"; the Right wants schools to teach "an idealized vision of the
past." And nobody seems to want the world taught as it actually is--with
depth, complexity and subtlety.
(JJ's note - well, nobody except all of us at NHEN. Maybe this could be our
new public frame, that only home education makes it possible to teach the world
with depth, complexity and subtlety! <g>)
SandraDodd@... writes:
> << Has anyone else read this? I'm about halfway through and it's about[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> sickening. I am SO glad that my kids are not going to go through the drivel
> being
> passed off as education within government schools. >>
>
> I'm guessing you tried to forward a link.
>
> If it's really interesting, send us a short excerpt. If it's not really
> interesting and doesn't help people get to unschooling, can we skip it
> maybe?
>
> YES, school's depressing. It's as depressing as watching the news, and I'd
> hate for this list to turn to school-bashing.
>
> Sandra
>
Tia Leschke
>Sounds like the textbooks I grew up with in the 50's and 60's. It might be
>As a result, writes Diane Ravitch in The Language Police: How Pressure Groups
>Restrict What Students Learn (Knopf, $24), America's children increasingly
>can't read and can't think and can't (until very recently, thanks to
>television,
>not the schools) find Iraq on a map. The textbooks they read and the tests
>they take have been so completely expurgated, sanitized and bowdlerized by
>self-righteous busybodies on both Left and Right that they're bland, boring,
>simplistic and unreadable, purged of ideas and images that might stir
>independent
>thought.
worse now, but I doubt that textbooks were ever anything but bland, boring,
simplistic (don't know about unreadable), and purged of ideas and images
that might stir independent thought.
Tia
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/9/03 2:28:18 PM, jrossedd@... writes:
<< As a result, writes Diane Ravitch in The Language Police: How Pressure
Groups
Restrict What Students Learn (Knopf, $24), America's children increasingly
can't read and can't think and can't (until very recently, thanks to
television,
not the schools) find Iraq on a map. The textbooks they read and the tests
they take have been so completely expurgated, sanitized and bowdlerized by
self-righteous busybodies on both Left and Right that they're bland, boring,
simplistic and unreadable, purged of ideas and images that might stir
independent
thought.
and sponsors not to choose how they mentioned homeschooling in a broadcast THEY
were paying for in a freedom-of-press country?
By the way, when People magazine ran their article on that family,
homeschooling was mentioned once just in passing (the word, no details) but MUCH blame
was put on social service, and some more on their church and neighbors for not
picking up on what was happening.
Sorry I thought it was wholly school-related, but as it's about textbooks it
IS school related.
And how true is it? Do you think every textbook manufacturer is so afraid of
every pressure group that they soon just won't write anything?
To some extent it's always been that way. In elementary kids get a
simplified version of history. In Jr. High, a little deeper. In high school they
begin to get actual reasons for things, but still predigested/analyzed. In
undergrad history, they get more than one version of things, to show that it's not
so simple. Not until grad school do they start to read primary sources and to
examine things critically.
Sandra
<< As a result, writes Diane Ravitch in The Language Police: How Pressure
Groups
Restrict What Students Learn (Knopf, $24), America's children increasingly
can't read and can't think and can't (until very recently, thanks to
television,
not the schools) find Iraq on a map. The textbooks they read and the tests
they take have been so completely expurgated, sanitized and bowdlerized by
self-righteous busybodies on both Left and Right that they're bland, boring,
simplistic and unreadable, purged of ideas and images that might stir
independent
thought.
>>Isn't that kind of what was being called for here, though, to pressure CBS
and sponsors not to choose how they mentioned homeschooling in a broadcast THEY
were paying for in a freedom-of-press country?
By the way, when People magazine ran their article on that family,
homeschooling was mentioned once just in passing (the word, no details) but MUCH blame
was put on social service, and some more on their church and neighbors for not
picking up on what was happening.
Sorry I thought it was wholly school-related, but as it's about textbooks it
IS school related.
And how true is it? Do you think every textbook manufacturer is so afraid of
every pressure group that they soon just won't write anything?
To some extent it's always been that way. In elementary kids get a
simplified version of history. In Jr. High, a little deeper. In high school they
begin to get actual reasons for things, but still predigested/analyzed. In
undergrad history, they get more than one version of things, to show that it's not
so simple. Not until grad school do they start to read primary sources and to
examine things critically.
Sandra
[email protected]
Yes! I agree the primary sources and undigested exposure in
systematic schooling is much too late coming. Part of why we uschool, to avoid that
concern for my own children, so they will read and think voraciously without
interference or control.
But when you say "every textbook manufacturer" the point is realizing
how small a group that has become, and that any competition that remains
between them is not of the beneficial kind (if it ever was.) I recall one of the
points her book means to make is that only four conglomerates now control the
entire textbook, curriculum AND (drum roll) testing market. It all spirals
together tighter and tighter, so only a few business decision-makers really do
control the content the whole population of American children are mandated to
master. And if I remember right, three of those four aren't even American, but
foreign owned -- so the issue was whether it's really anything like the free
marketplace of ideas we might want, or believe we have.
Standardized tests do affect people beyond public school, when they
want college admission or other advanced study or to enter the military, etc, and
testing also seems to determine how the general public thinks about what
"learning" is and what it means to "be educated." The folks that brought us the
SAT folks now are considering entering the curriculum market, for example, to
eke more profit out of proprietary work they've already done and branding
they've already paid for, I guess. And many homeschoolers rely on schoolish
curriculum materials and test their children regularly. In some states those test
scores actually decide whether home education (and/or unschooling) legally can
continue!
Personally I think knowing more about all this can indeed help move
people to unschooling, and can help us explain why unschooling is important and
valuable. Not just for our own children but for society, which NEEDS people
like us who don't buy into the centralization and control of words and ideas.
.
SandraDodd@... writes:
systematic schooling is much too late coming. Part of why we uschool, to avoid that
concern for my own children, so they will read and think voraciously without
interference or control.
But when you say "every textbook manufacturer" the point is realizing
how small a group that has become, and that any competition that remains
between them is not of the beneficial kind (if it ever was.) I recall one of the
points her book means to make is that only four conglomerates now control the
entire textbook, curriculum AND (drum roll) testing market. It all spirals
together tighter and tighter, so only a few business decision-makers really do
control the content the whole population of American children are mandated to
master. And if I remember right, three of those four aren't even American, but
foreign owned -- so the issue was whether it's really anything like the free
marketplace of ideas we might want, or believe we have.
Standardized tests do affect people beyond public school, when they
want college admission or other advanced study or to enter the military, etc, and
testing also seems to determine how the general public thinks about what
"learning" is and what it means to "be educated." The folks that brought us the
SAT folks now are considering entering the curriculum market, for example, to
eke more profit out of proprietary work they've already done and branding
they've already paid for, I guess. And many homeschoolers rely on schoolish
curriculum materials and test their children regularly. In some states those test
scores actually decide whether home education (and/or unschooling) legally can
continue!
Personally I think knowing more about all this can indeed help move
people to unschooling, and can help us explain why unschooling is important and
valuable. Not just for our own children but for society, which NEEDS people
like us who don't buy into the centralization and control of words and ideas.
.
SandraDodd@... writes:
> Sorry I thought it was wholly school-related, but as it's about textbooks[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> it
> IS school related.
>
> And how true is it? Do you think every textbook manufacturer is so afraid
> of
> every pressure group that they soon just won't write anything?
>
> To some extent it's always been that way. In elementary kids get a
> simplified version of history. In Jr. High, a little deeper. In high
> school they
> begin to get actual reasons for things, but still predigested/analyzed. In
> undergrad history, they get more than one version of things, to show that
> it's not
> so simple. Not until grad school do they start to read primary sources and
> to
> examine things critically.
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/9/03 5:35:57 PM, jrossedd@... writes:
<< I recall one of the
points her book means to make is that only four conglomerates now control the
entire textbook, curriculum AND (drum roll) testing market. >>
I'm surprised there are four. There were three I knew of when I was
teaching, and that was a while back now. Kirby drives and has sideburns. <g>
Sandra
<< I recall one of the
points her book means to make is that only four conglomerates now control the
entire textbook, curriculum AND (drum roll) testing market. >>
I'm surprised there are four. There were three I knew of when I was
teaching, and that was a while back now. Kirby drives and has sideburns. <g>
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/09/2003 7:56:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
"now?" Everything IS relative! JJ
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> << I recall one of the<G> I guess for a professional historian, though, that was more like
> points her book means to make is that only four conglomerates now control
> the
> entire textbook, curriculum AND (drum roll) testing market. >>
>
> I'm surprised there are four. There were three I knew of when I was
> teaching, and that was a while back now. Kirby drives and has sideburns. <
> g>
>
> Sandra
>
>
"now?" Everything IS relative! JJ
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pam sorooshian
Seems my link wasn't working for a while - but it is working again now,
I think.
I think.
> <http://homepage.mac.com/pamsoroosh/iblog/index.html>-pam
On Nov 8, 2003, at 8:09 AM, pam sorooshian wrote:
> I'll be taking a lot of her ideas and slowly, but surely, putting them
> on my math blog. There is not a whole lot there yet, but there is some,
> and I'm working on it pretty steadily.
>
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
pam sorooshian
On Nov 9, 2003, at 2:40 PM, SandraDodd@... wrote:
normal journalistic practices.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> Isn't that kind of what was being called for here, though, to pressureWhat I saw called for was for CBS to carry out at least a semblance of
> CBS
> and sponsors not to choose how they mentioned homeschooling in a
> broadcast THEY
> were paying for in a freedom-of-press country?
normal journalistic practices.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
Elizabeth Roberts
It didn't scare me because I've felt this was the case of things since I was in school (I'm soon to turn 28, escaped from public education with a paper of proof I was then considered educated in 1993.
My problem with it, besides fully understanding the depths to which this censorship has pervaded government education, realizing I myself was victim of it (which alongside points made in JTGatto's Underground History of American Education only served to clarify exactly WHY I was so unhappy in school and bored out of my mind); is that when reading parts of it aloud to my best friend...she kept saying "Yes, I know" and "Yes, I realize that" and either she truly DIDN'T understand and was patronizing me or she does truly know and yet CHOOSES to continue to subject her children to this drivel even when there are other options available, even if only temporary!!! But then expects her children to have high grades and be motivated and accomplished academically.
Elizabeth in MA
ejcrewe@... wrote:
In a message dated 11/9/2003 9:25:58 AM Central Standard Time,
mamabethuscg@... writes:
course, was it's intent.
Elizabeth in IL
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My problem with it, besides fully understanding the depths to which this censorship has pervaded government education, realizing I myself was victim of it (which alongside points made in JTGatto's Underground History of American Education only served to clarify exactly WHY I was so unhappy in school and bored out of my mind); is that when reading parts of it aloud to my best friend...she kept saying "Yes, I know" and "Yes, I realize that" and either she truly DIDN'T understand and was patronizing me or she does truly know and yet CHOOSES to continue to subject her children to this drivel even when there are other options available, even if only temporary!!! But then expects her children to have high grades and be motivated and accomplished academically.
Elizabeth in MA
ejcrewe@... wrote:
In a message dated 11/9/2003 9:25:58 AM Central Standard Time,
mamabethuscg@... writes:
> Has anyone else read this?I read it a couple of months ago and it scared the crap out of me. Which, of
course, was it's intent.
Elizabeth in IL
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Roberts
No, no link, although I'm sure I could easily find parts of the book online where discussed within educational blogs and such where I'd first heard of the book.
It's entitled "The Language Police" by Diane Ravitch as stated in the subject line.
If anyone is interested I would gladly spend the time either searching for a link to excerpts or bringing up specific points for discussion. It is not about "school bashing" but about censorship. I would like to think that those here are not interested in their children wasting the time with censored materials rather than the original texts of all books, not simply textbooks.
If I'm wrong and you don't feel this subject is too "OT" to be discussed on this forum, then I'll gladly let it drop.
Elizabeth in MA
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 11/9/03 8:25:33 AM, mamabethuscg@... writes:
<< Has anyone else read this? I'm about halfway through and it's about
sickening. I am SO glad that my kids are not going to go through the drivel being
passed off as education within government schools. >>
I'm guessing you tried to forward a link.
If it's really interesting, send us a short excerpt. If it's not really
interesting and doesn't help people get to unschooling, can we skip it maybe?
YES, school's depressing. It's as depressing as watching the news, and I'd
hate for this list to turn to school-bashing.
Sandra
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It's entitled "The Language Police" by Diane Ravitch as stated in the subject line.
If anyone is interested I would gladly spend the time either searching for a link to excerpts or bringing up specific points for discussion. It is not about "school bashing" but about censorship. I would like to think that those here are not interested in their children wasting the time with censored materials rather than the original texts of all books, not simply textbooks.
If I'm wrong and you don't feel this subject is too "OT" to be discussed on this forum, then I'll gladly let it drop.
Elizabeth in MA
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 11/9/03 8:25:33 AM, mamabethuscg@... writes:
<< Has anyone else read this? I'm about halfway through and it's about
sickening. I am SO glad that my kids are not going to go through the drivel being
passed off as education within government schools. >>
I'm guessing you tried to forward a link.
If it's really interesting, send us a short excerpt. If it's not really
interesting and doesn't help people get to unschooling, can we skip it maybe?
YES, school's depressing. It's as depressing as watching the news, and I'd
hate for this list to turn to school-bashing.
Sandra
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[email protected]
In a message dated 11/9/03 7:22:51 PM, jrossedd@... writes:
<< <G> I guess for a professional historian, though, that was more like
"now?" Everything IS relative! JJ
market is how old though?
Nineteenth century schools didn't have "textbooks" in the modern sense.
"Readers." Maybe multiple copies of a Shakespeare play. Bibles as readers for
older kids. Lots of lessons were written on the chalkboard by the teacher.
Sandra
<< <G> I guess for a professional historian, though, that was more like
"now?" Everything IS relative! JJ
>>The entire history of professional textbook publication for the American
market is how old though?
Nineteenth century schools didn't have "textbooks" in the modern sense.
"Readers." Maybe multiple copies of a Shakespeare play. Bibles as readers for
older kids. Lots of lessons were written on the chalkboard by the teacher.
Sandra
Elizabeth Roberts
I don't think her intent was so much to scare as it was to inform in a WAKE-UP AMERICA sort of way!
Elizabeth
course, was it's intent.
Elizabeth in IL
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth
>>>I read it a couple of months ago and it scared the crap out of me. Which,of
course, was it's intent.
Elizabeth in IL
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Elizabeth Roberts
Thanks for passing that along. I agree with the point you make, because it does stretch beyond textbooks into current children's and young adults writings that are published.
Trying to raise thinking children in a world that doesn't want them to truly think isn't easy and it's becoming more difficult thanks to measures such as these.
Elizabeth in MA
jrossedd@... wrote:
Sandra, I'd say the Ravitch book is not school-bashing, more of an
expose of the children's publishing industry and how centralized and homogenized
it's become --
It's probably wise for all us unschoolers to realize what's happening
and why. Then when confronted with the results, we can help our children see
and understand it, too. We ALL have to live in the society that's being created
by such artificial controls on divergent thinking.
Not to say we need a big discussion of it here, though. In the spring
I posted several news articles about the Language Police and also a link to
the National Public Radio interview with the author, about these issues and how
she came to write the book. Those interested can check out NHEN's forums in a
thread called, "What's in a Name? Politics!"
http://www.nhen.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=386
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Trying to raise thinking children in a world that doesn't want them to truly think isn't easy and it's becoming more difficult thanks to measures such as these.
Elizabeth in MA
jrossedd@... wrote:
Sandra, I'd say the Ravitch book is not school-bashing, more of an
expose of the children's publishing industry and how centralized and homogenized
it's become --
It's probably wise for all us unschoolers to realize what's happening
and why. Then when confronted with the results, we can help our children see
and understand it, too. We ALL have to live in the society that's being created
by such artificial controls on divergent thinking.
Not to say we need a big discussion of it here, though. In the spring
I posted several news articles about the Language Police and also a link to
the National Public Radio interview with the author, about these issues and how
she came to write the book. Those interested can check out NHEN's forums in a
thread called, "What's in a Name? Politics!"
http://www.nhen.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=386
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Roberts
Tia Leschke <leschke@...> wrote:
worse now, but I doubt that textbooks were ever anything but bland, boring,
simplistic (don't know about unreadable), and purged of ideas and images
that might stir independent thought.
Tia
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Sounds like the textbooks I grew up with in the 50's and 60's. It might be
>As a result, writes Diane Ravitch in The Language Police: How Pressure Groups
>Restrict What Students Learn (Knopf, $24), America's children increasingly
>can't read and can't think and can't (until very recently, thanks to
>television,
>not the schools) find Iraq on a map. The textbooks they read and the tests
>they take have been so completely expurgated, sanitized and bowdlerized by
>self-righteous busybodies on both Left and Right that they're bland, boring,
>simplistic and unreadable, purged of ideas and images that might stir
>independent
>thought.
worse now, but I doubt that textbooks were ever anything but bland, boring,
simplistic (don't know about unreadable), and purged of ideas and images
that might stir independent thought.
Tia
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[email protected]
In a message dated 11/9/03 8:44:15 PM, mamabethuscg@... writes:
<< I would like to think that those here are not interested in their children
wasting the time with censored materials rather than the original texts of
all books, not simply textbooks.
<<If I'm wrong. . . >>
????
"Those here" are unschoolers, pretty much, and textbooks aren't a part of
their lives.
Sandra
<< I would like to think that those here are not interested in their children
wasting the time with censored materials rather than the original texts of
all books, not simply textbooks.
<<If I'm wrong. . . >>
????
"Those here" are unschoolers, pretty much, and textbooks aren't a part of
their lives.
Sandra
[email protected]
Well, there you go -- the very primary sources and un-predigested
literature we were bemoaning the absences of!
Seriously, I take your point and agree. Textbooks have been insipid
from the get-go, compared to "real" books. Ravitch just makes the case that they
have gotten worse.
SandraDodd@... writes:
literature we were bemoaning the absences of!
Seriously, I take your point and agree. Textbooks have been insipid
from the get-go, compared to "real" books. Ravitch just makes the case that they
have gotten worse.
SandraDodd@... writes:
> The entire history of professional textbook publication for the American[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> market is how old though?
>
> Nineteenth century schools didn't have "textbooks" in the modern sense.
> "Readers." Maybe multiple copies of a Shakespeare play. Bibles as readers
> for
> older kids. Lots of lessons were written on the chalkboard by the teacher.
>
>